Bicycle and Pedestrian Coordination Committee Meeting   12/16/2021

Hey Chris.

Good morning.

Shane, I don't know if you had a chance to read through some of those emails, but

I did peruse the emails.

Dan or Amanda, Shane, Chris, Jessica?

No?

Chris, one question that did come up that might be helpful if you're prepared to respond to is about a potential boat launch and where that would be in relation to the bridge and how that might impact additional parking strain at Riverview Park and just all questions around a boat launch in that general vicinity.

shake that thing out kind of early because I've had other bridges much smaller bridges where sewer lines just make it almost impossible to get the bridge built and we're going to want to know that pretty soon I would imagine.

We need to get better information on those.

Okay.

And this is where you all can confirm some information for me.

So our concern is we're putting more cars on the road in this area.

And then not necessarily having the framework to understand how we determine that commuters are likely to use a bridge when you can't really see people that are using an alternative right now.

It seems like how do you submit a SMART SCALE application for this, one of these locations, or you wait till two years hence after more studies have been done?

I don't know if anybody else would like to add anything to that.

I agree.

But I think to move forward with this process that we've developed, we have to make sure that it's discussed.

Right.

So I think as long as we get ahead of it and say, yep, we're aware that might be a problem, we have some options as we go forward, that'll allow us to continue forward.

I mean, let's, I mean, I'm just trying to, you know, let logic enter the picture here.

The policy board to determine if they're comfortable with the efforts that we've made to, you know, address those considerations.

Let's put it that way.

So what we need to do though is we need to catch all these people that are suddenly becoming aware of how this is going to impact them a little bit more directly to pull them along and help them understand that this has been building from a fairly comprehensive process over time and give them the framework to understand that this isn't just coming out of nowhere.

You know, again, it's like, why, if there's local opposition and they're not moving forward, why request this?

So what I'm covering at the discussion this afternoon is whether or not there is interest in that advisory committee from considering that and really just trying to be very direct about what the implications of that might be if they want to include that as part of the analysis moving forward.

That's my perception here.

A lot of people told me I could just put a telephone pole bridge over there and we know that can't happen like we know it has to meet all these flood constraints and we had a professional look at that and that's why these locations are where they are amongst another number of factors that make these the two places that we're looking to move forward on.

And, you know, very quickly, because if you want to get it in this round or the alternative is not to block, I mean, you know, I'm sure the other localities that are applying for SMART SCALE will be more than happy for Charlottesville not to submit an application for this.

Amanda or Jessica, I see you both unmuted, so here's your chance.

I was just going to ask, and forgive me for not being involved in the process prior to this, but is there an opportunity to do a larger survey or something so that maybe it just helps, I don't know, support, show greater public support and help people understand like there is wide support for this and beyond just a couple of people who are unhappy with their personal impacts.

I think what's hard is that if we go to Riverview Park to ask people, we're going to get, you know, people who go to Riverview Park or Riverside Park, but we can probably do some sort of survey or something like that at a minimum.

If we're also interested in the people who live near Riverview Park, it seems like users should also be an important stakeholder group.

I just don't think that we would want to limit it to that, because I think that's going to be a small subsection of people who would potentially be interested in seeing a bridge at this location.

I mean, again, there's a difference between doing that and saying, here's two options, but you might could have some more, just tell us what you want, we'll look into that.

Yeah, my thought is that they would pick an option and then there might be a follow-up question about what appeals to you about the option you chose or what doesn't appeal to you about the option you didn't choose or something like that is my thought, but we'll have to talk to the advisory committee and see if they have any other input.

And that could be that the folks that live next to the park that don't want it will think, great, victory, fine, go build it over there, I'm cool.

But yeah, there's a lot of other factors.

And then we've got to pick one of the two in a certain sense as the steering committee and push it forward as an application.

Dr. David Blount

It's just a matter of, we need to work through the public and political process to get the support to be able to move it forward.

I was at that meeting and now there were three folks were there and staff and basically no one else.

So any comments or thoughts or revisions that you all would suggest here?

Safety improvements to be made on Market in Chesapeake, and maybe we make Broadway the nice, grand, super nice route in, but I'm not so sure that any one of these lines necessarily changes where the bridge touches a public street, right?

This is basically just to provide more context and more framework so people can, so as people are talking about the network connectivity, they can picture a little bit more about what some of the potential access ways might be.

I would also add that we're looking at all of them and all three may need, you know, some different levels of either safety improvements or really, really big improvements, but that's not part of this phase of the project necessarily.

Would it be useful to show the proposed bridge crossing locations in relation to these lines?

Yeah, because you can't land a bridge on Broadway, right?

And then the red line is, but I can add another marker for those.

I mean, it's just so.

Yeah, off of East Market and it goes up Mead to where it says Meadow Way and then continues along the coal tower, you know, right adjacent to the railroad.

Yeah, the Water Street Trail and all that.

People know what that is?

Yeah.

Okay.

And I think Amanda's right, more people would probably take that on the uphill section, they'd probably get on that trail, rather than going up that part of Market Street that's got so much driveways and cars and all that kind of fun.

Okay, I'll see if I can... What was that Chris?

But they have the right to keep going right up Market Street if they want to, so that's a, you know.

Am I correct that like East Market State looks like in this first section at least the sidewalks are kind of intermittent?

Or non-existent.

But once you kind of get through that first segment, it looks like it is contiguous.

There's a few missing sections, but it's more like 90% complete rather than like 30% on the low end.

OK. For Chesapeake, you have continuous sidewalks already in place, but it's continuous sidewalks on the north side only.

It was pretty amazing.

Maybe there are some things that could be done in an interim basis, you know, testing some things with temporary conditions on Carlton and Broadway that, you know, just something to consider.

Okay.

Right.

Compared to East Market Street, maybe like once you get out of that actual wool factory area?

I think once you come across the bridge or if you're going to the bridge,

And I'll see if, I'll find a map for the cool to our trail and see if I can add that on here just for context.

Like it can't be both.

It can be there, Chris.

We just don't want people in the area.

It doesn't necessarily mean that we can solve all of that, but...

Yeah.

And it might be that there's not a clear recommendation that comes from the Stakeholder Advisory Committee, but we can discuss what the feedback has been about all the options and make sure that they are aware of what their considerations need to be.

Did somebody put a third bridge option on the table?

I mean, what, what is this third option and who closed it?

That's my question.

What are you going to do then?

How did it pop in?

This was submitted by a citizen that's on the Citizen Transportation Advisory Committee for the MPO.

I'm just saying that if anybody, did everybody have a chance to know, hey, I can submit a design for this committee?

We were not actively soliciting design suggestions.

Where are you then?

remove it from consideration at this point.

If I'm in attendance at this meeting,

I would call that inside knowledge and and dealing in the sense that, yeah, I even

So, yeah.

Will of the people and will of a person are two different things, and I'll leave it at that.

Sure.

And I think it's really important that that clarification or that policy would apply to all projects equally, not just bike and ped projects.

And I know I'm being a little bit sarcastic here, but I'm just saying, trying to illustrate a point here with a little hyperbole, but there's much truth to what is, I mean, I'm just trying to think perception-wise.

You know, I think we would just have to present the information and maybe it's that this is the feedback we got from the

advisory committee, which is advisory, you know, as long as you say advisory committee and not the public cause, cause again, I don't think this is, I think that would be public and you call them as public engagement would be playing a little bit fast and loose with what actually went down.

So we're just going to try to move forward from there and see what happens and learn from this process.

If it goes completely sideways, I owe you a beer, Shane.

Yeah, I know you don't gotta say that, but anyway, it would be good to differentiate that two have been vetted engineering-wise and are based on engineering, one is based on someone's desire.

Wait, I have been trying to make sure that that is completely communicated every time we discuss this.

I didn't understand why that said likely most least costly alternative, or what is that based on?

I mean, I just, I mean, it's one thing to get citizen input, but you gotta be truthful and transparent and that's not.

I think that's based on...

I mean, just because if the other two have engineering kind of analysis and that one doesn't, it's kind of hard to say, I would guess.

I mean, that's kind of based on different people sort of like gut feelings like, yeah, that's probably true, but I don't have an analysis to back that up.

There's no checkmark in a SMART SCALE for gut feeling.

And I wouldn't want there to be.

Well, how do how we know that kind of thing?

I could actually add that to the list at the bottom that.

I had a few fires to put out this morning.

So no worry.

Then I was like, Oh, yeah, there's this.

Anything else that you all want to talk about, or share updates on?

I'm sorry that, sorry to leave, but I'm excited for some new opportunities and yeah.

Yeah.

It's been great working with you at the city.

I mean, it will, there will be a bike coordinator in the city.

Yeah.

I'm looking forward to working with you on other projects as we have the opportunity to.

Cool.

Well, anything else you all want to add?

Any last words?

And I hope the rest of you have a good afternoon.

Thanks.

Bye.