Board of Supervisors Meeting   11/7/2022

Mr. Barton, would you lead us in the pledge?

All I can say is I don't know who to think is more courageous, him or his wife.

We are excited.

I am excited.

If you could just state your name and address for the record.

Thank you.

Lots of good news, right?

Yes.

Subway, Sunny Mountain Store and Employees, Sweet Bliss Bakery, The Amherst Corner, The Apple Shed, The Briar Patch Restaurant, What a Blessing Bakery, the Woodridge Farm Brewery, and many, many patrons, donors, and volunteers.

That is awesome.

A whole community effort.

Anything else?

Thank you guys so much for your support.

I feel like I just saw you.

But other than that, that's what I have.

I think you know what I'm talking about.

up here just south of Lovingston.

I just want you to think about it, look at it, because I believe that, you know, especially with that new brewery there, there is more traffic and it's dangerous.

We would not take public dollars and construct a white turn lane to be part of the business.

Just take a look at it.

Anything else?

Jesse, thanks for the initiation of the meeting we had this week on the 151 corridor.

It was a good thing.

Good thing, yes.

Yeah, thanks.

Mr. Parr.

Welcome back.

Yeah.

So, did you look at the email I sent you?

I think so.

I think it's a great idea, right?

We'll take a look at it and I'll shoot it around.

So before we get everybody too excited, we're going to feel you guys out.

So, you know, we have to watch our make sure we can probably throw out our administration guidelines and so forth.

Wonderful.

We will certainly help them out anyway we can.

Nice to see you again.

Thank you.

Any questions for Mr. Blunt at this time?

Is that part of your response?

This forms the basis of the positions that I would take on behalf of the local governments in the region.

What kind of support for these recommendations do you get from the legislators that represent us and Nelson County?

Without us being aware, because let's face it, journalism doesn't do a very good job in covering the actions of legislation.

But be much more persuasive if you could engage the people of the community.

Let me be specific.

What do the people in terms of funding for public education, where, let's say, do they represent Nelson County?

So I think you've got, right now you've got some people who are in some good key positions who are going to be more educated and informed about some of the budget and finance issues that some of the other legislators, because of the sorts that they have.

Our staff have definitely written a lot of letters in the past years.

Thank you.

and so this is the first time I've really kind of like taken a look at how they line up together and they line up pretty well but not perfectly so how did you do as for TJPDT do you do any any interaction with JCO to try to help them because I know you're not on any of those you know TJPDT doesn't have any one of those committees those are the elected reps pretty much yeah I'll say to answer that in a couple of ways first you just kind of looking at the

Is your mic on, by the way?

Is there a green light?

I put my light on.

Yeah.

Has it not been on the whole time?

You speak really loud, so thanks.

You see that, given a number of jurisdictions, they bring forth an item or two to also ask them to endorse through their policy making process.

Oh, we have to make a motion today.

Yeah.

Can someone make this motion?

I will move that we adopt resolution R. 2022-63, Nelson County Board of Supervisors approval of the Thomas Jefferson County District 2023 legislative program.

All right.

She has a short presentation for us on their activities and some things they've got going on in Nelson County.

And I just thank you all so much for putting me on the agenda today, and I'd be glad to answer any questions.

Any questions at this time?

Are there any plans to have an office or do something down in this area?

I would encourage you to talk to Maureen and Candice to get more clarification on what do they think we're valued

I just mean that something that spreads from Culpeper to Charlottesville doesn't leak into Nelson County.

The grants are benefiting all of our region, not just any particular part of it.

I don't mean to be aggressive, I mean to paint a realistic picture of what's going on.

So whatever I can do to have those conversations, just let me know.

Andy, take it away.

I just want to introduce our P&A Architecture team, who is here to just present their initial phases of work on our new office building for the Department of Social Services and planning, zoning, and building inspections.

So having said that, I want to go through a couple of slides just to illustrate the methodology and how we arrived and where we are

So in that, get this laser.

It's a laser on this, isn't it?

and ended up with, again, their space needed in 10 years.

It's a 16 acre plus site and it's time for me to let you talk.

What kind of parking do we need?

All that goes into sort of

So I would be happy to answer questions on the site, but maybe after the budget discussion.

The supply chain is not functioning fully.

And whenever you have that shortage, you're going to see prices

So I'd be happy to respond to questions.

So I wouldn't say drainage problems, but I would say that yeah, there's a reality that you have to take the water that's coming downhill and bypass it around your building.

So, related question.

Is that something that might be considered the future for us?

Thanks for asking your question.

So that's how I would answer that question, sir.

There might be conceivably portions that are not part of the footprint right now that might be considered for future.

So if you're just trying to dash in, but making those lines decisions about maybe up-sizing, say a storm sewer or a sanitary line, the marginal cost to get it a little bit larger is not that much because you have to put it in the ground or whatever.

Thanks.

Any other questions at this time?

I don't think I would say it's easier or harder.

And just like you're saying, I think that there's some economies of scale by, if you think about the cost per desk or per person, you're already making a bunch of investments for one use.

Can you build the rock, the building out in solid rock?

So that's how I would approach that.

Yeah, and also it makes sense to you to put the whole package, not just singular social service.

You know, you have to look at the overall economic picture

And that's not a small thing.

And I know that it's a balanced mix, so.

How inefficient is it to build one part of the project and then at a later time at the second part, knowing you're going to do that in the long run?

We could do that yesterday.

Would that be more efficient?

There's a lot of really weird stuff happening with supply chains, with the war in Ukraine, with materials and if you think that the overall country might be going in a more recessionary direction than it could be,

Are we supposed to do any decisions on this today, Candice?

Do we want to go a little bit further with tendons to evaluate the type of rock on the site?

Right.

We also, I mean, environmental, there are other things that the required study, utility capacity, but if I was going to do a next step, I would look at the geo-tech.

The radar, right.

Or you tell me what's the best way to do it.

I don't see any reason why not do that.

Well, this is a preliminary engineer.

How much do you think that would increase the cost for doing this if we were increasing the area by a half or something?

Yeah, I think that we have the cost to do the geotechnical, but

There's no reason not to go to the tree line.

Might as well find out what we got all over there.

Find out as much as you can if we're going to spend the money on something like that.

So that's why I'd recommend it.

Do you need anything else?

We need to be more specific about where the boundaries are, or I don't know how, you know, the distance between the boards.

You'll get a program, a proposal to your team, and we'll get a report shortly thereafter.

The other risk also, if you have utilities that go up there, we would need to sort of evaluate the utilities.

those kinds of things, also environmental constraints.

We just would say do the geotechnics.

Candy, anything else to add?

I was just going to ask Jeff to just kind of, you could narrate next steps just beyond the initial or additional site investigation.

I will say to the board,

It didn't cost me more money.

That would be the next.

That's the whole point of this process.

That's good.

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah, they were, yeah.

Our ethic on this is that we want to plan the project so that women

It may even be more often than that initially, but there will probably be monthly meetings with the whole work group and everyone, all the stakeholders involved will be a part of that.

Five minutes.

The board can either adopt the attached resolution, which would refer this topic to the Planning Commission for recommendation on drafting of the new ordinance to address this type of development, or you can just use to keep the current ordinances in place.

Where's the Catholic Church?

You've got the Green Acres right there.

So there's space between Ms. Tucker's house and her son's house.

Yeah, the lot goes up 35 acres.

And that's not mountainous, that's...

It's pretty intense topography.

It gets steep at the back, but the front three acres are zoned for an artsy design.

And he owns this, this guy.

And he is here as well, if you have specific questions about it, but essentially what we're looking for today is, does the board want to refer this to the Planning Commission so we can draft an ordinance or do you want to lead it the way it is?

Are we going to be able to ask him questions about this now?

We have to get the Planning Commission to present something before they can even do anything, right?

Right now, this is not something they would be able to apply for.

But, you know, this one little picture does give me any feeling for what kind of, like for instance, the houses, prefab houses or street built houses.

And then at that time, they would present all their application materials.

And then we'd be asking the Planning Commission

I believe he does get into more specifics about this project and the email that he provided.

You're not an applicant, you're not an applicant, you're an interest group of sorts.

I'll open it up if you have any additional questions for me that I can try to answer.

So like, even if we do in a couple months approve a cluster zoning, those individuals, right, in all situations would have to still get approval by special use permit.

Now, these lots are 50 by 100?

They would probably be anywhere from 80 or 100 foot wide.

How big are these houses?

I've lived my whole life in a house that's 720 square feet so I know and with children

But it has to be in a place that's livable, you know, parks and recreation areas.

We obviously keep all the back adjacent where the elevations get really steep into the

The other thing that makes me curious and excited is the idea that these are stick-built houses, so you're going to employ carpenters to build them?

While I have experience in modular housing, I haven't built modular housing in 15, 17 years, but everything we build is

Do you build them?

But I would say for a 38-year career span, most of my construction has been in the workforce.

Would you have a program to train carpenters?

I actually met with my Congressman a couple weeks ago about we really need to get back to trade schools and workforce health.

I mean that's the way we used to do it.

I'm glad to speak with anyone about that and how we can try to help facilitate that.

I would love to talk to you.

Make sure you all get each other's phone numbers.

For the record, if you could give that to staff and they'll distribute it.

So I will tell you it has fed many families and housed many.

But it would be wonderful to employ people to build these houses.

We want to refer this to Planning Commission, Mr. Reed.

So if you could just let me know, that would be something I would like to do apart from that.

Do we need to pick one of those specifically, or can we just send it all?

If you adopt a resolution that sends us a planning commission.

Can we get a motion?

I don't quite understand, but I think I need to understand.

Dylan, can you explain to Skip what we're doing?

including but not limited to requirements for area and density.

So we're allowing them to write or somewhat.

The planning commission, yes.

I'll move that we adopt Resolution R. 2022-64, and as the County Board of Supervisors, referring the Zoning Ordinance Article 21, Cluster Housing Development Planning Commission for review and recommendations for amendment.

Okay, this is a lot of candy.

And these were changes that both Dylan and Pam Campbell requested in terms of modifying review of business license applications.

I mean, that one's a little bit perplexing to me.

For example, do you remember the special use permit for short term miles on Avon Road?

Yes.

That would be a good example because if they had just gotten a business license they would have been required to go to VDOT but they didn't have adequate parking and their entrance was very wide so VDOT had required them to close it down a bit and ensure that their access was adequate on the state road.

I believe that's what this is saying, yes.

I think that's something that's up to the board.

That's the only thing I wanted to know.

I'm not sure if that came from the foot from Campbell or... That draft language is a couple years old.

This problem already came up.

I don't know where VDOT came from.

I mean, you could always make it up.

Like it'd just be kind of insane.

I personally don't have any heartburn over removing the VDOT.

Can we, I think we should remove the VDOT.

I agree.

That's a word.

OK.

All right, that was my take.

A portion of the residence was being rented out, like a... Yeah, or what do you call it when you put the accessory loan, is that right?

Yeah.

Because that's considered transient occupancy, I'd like to see that added and it'd be clearer.

I think I'm of the same mindset as Phil in that the definition of a bed and breakfast is change the occupancy by room, but I also agree to being extra clear with that as well.

Very, very quickly.

And also after we have a public hearing.

Right.

When people will let us know what they think.

This is an authorization for a public hearing, but it's good to know.

I will to the extent that I can tolerate my opinion.

I still think you can just imagine people coming in with a very simple business license

I think we did, and we killed it then on a similar basis.

Isn't it meant to keep folks from having a business in an area that's not zoned for that?

90% of the businesses in Nelson are in places that aren't zoned business, probably.

When the issue came up at a recent hearing about partial games owned R1 and they got a business license without building approval with it, a special use permit would have been required.

I'm a little concerned.

And to some extent, I think if you're doing a short-term rental, you're going to assume that the place that you're going to be staying in

And we don't have a maintenance code as a county, which other counties do have, which would probably

My understanding of the building code aspect of it is more for things like number of bedrooms.

or six bedrooms being rented out kicks it into a new use category.

Yeah, I can do that.

And Jeremy will have to speak more on that because I don't.

I think it's a reasonable question, but we need to define compliant.

This is just putting it in stone to require it in order for the issuance of a business license.

So it's either, you know, so it would be possible for someone to get their license on one that's not compliant, but it would be on record that it's not.

So I don't know.

That's the distinction is right now you could get a business license even if you are not selling.

And that's been the way for ever and ever and ever.

But this would change it then from giving the commissioner of revenue the option to say that the planning and zoning should look at this or not.

Like we're talking lots, lots and lots and lots.

And therefore, if...

I mean, we'd have to specify, I mean, I don't know.

I don't know.

It's got to be compliant.

It just means that it's not compliant.

I just don't see.

Well, you know, and it doesn't, you know, you don't evict people if it's not compliant.

I think I'm a little lost.

Like I said, if it's got a CO, they already said that all the code requirements were there.

At that time, yes.

They go to the building code office and they say, okay, well, you're dwelling with five bedrooms that you're renting out and you have a CEO.

I don't know.

So we can approve that, but if somebody just goes to the Commissioner of Revenue and gets a business license and does not get a home occupation from us, then we don't have any record of it.

It's, you know, obviously the short-term rental world has its own different issue, and this would have to cover both of those, right, Phil?

When they were hauls about the truck leaving at four o'clock every morning,

Is he in a zoning violation?

I have my zoning approval.

If you're going to do a short-term rental hit those three things.

Sorry to change everyone's.

In the building code, what an effective short-term grant was.

I don't think they have this.

Probably 89% of the people in Nelson County are violating the building code.

If you have a house that's built last year, then congratulations, your house that you're now in would be in violation of that code.

I think to have something that was a little bit more thought out and a little tighter.

That's what we should be trying to do and to get into other things.

I think the crux of this is to establish short-term rentals.

And then pass everything else.

We don't want to do this part.

And then we'll send the rest to the public hearing.

We can consider the application requirements when we have our

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

That item's done.

That's for the purposes of making sure you're capturing all of these, capturing the income, and it is somewhat of an honor system, but at least if people have to

And that's in compliance and in the new state stipulations as they apply to VRB.

Right.

So that's the goal there.

and then there's some other housekeeping things.

The state code's vision of enabling that is so convoluted, I don't know why they bothered to pass it, so I don't know why we bothered to get rid of it.

The hotel here is where we added bed and breakfast and vacation panels.

Is there a definition for bed and breakfast in?

There may be a definition of this anymore.

Yeah, but is there a definition of what a bed and breakfast is?

There isn't a zoning ordinance, but it doesn't include the work in.

Oh, okay.

I think, well, remember this is the zoning ordinance, but I think everybody knew what a bed and breakfast was, in fact, the older person.

Yeah.

This is just going to a public hearing as well.

I'm fine with that and I'm sure we'll get plenty of commentary from that to tell us what we did wrong.

Okay, so you have Resolution 2022-67 would authorize this to go to public hearing.

Alright, can anybody have any commentary before we make a motion?

Alright, let's make a motion.

Candy?

You may notice on the courthouse lawn we have some green light bulbs in our lighting out front and that's just to commemorate Veterans Day.

All right.

So I don't know if anyone has any comment or thoughts on the out of area fee or anything else.

Is the out of area outside of the Thomas Jefferson Regional Library District or is it outside of Nelson?

Outside of the regional library.

Right, so if you live in Charlottesville, you don't have to pay a fee to check out in Nelson.

Any questions on that?

That's all right.

It's just something you need to consider and go forward.

I think it behooves us to support something like this.

I'm good, Mr. Parr.

We would have to get that MOU in place, but he was hoping maybe we could give them a sense that they could go ahead with the coordinator hire prior to working out those details.

Like a year?

I think that's something that the criminal attorney's office would report on.

It might take a year to hire someone like that.

I think they may have someone kind of already in mind to

Is that services that the Commonwealth Attorney would provide that wouldn't be duplicative?

We have no new information to report on Renaissance Ridge housing developments and then you all should have received other departmental staff reports with your packet.

Any questions for Candy?

I'm monitoring it too because they have to submit all those forms to me.

There were a lot of concerns.

They had a meeting with Curtis and I think they all got on the same page and I think he was able to help them get moving in the right direction and we should be able to meet this deadline.

Skip, Ernie.

And that's just about it, I think.

Thank you.

Mr. Parr?

I know a lot of you all have met with the same group, Susan and Woody and have some good notes come out of that and some information I'll share working on both points to share with Ms. McGarry.

But I think we'd be good trendsetters.

But even if the board wants to do less or more.

It would be 19.

Yes.

He had an address, but he didn't check yes or no for if he lived here.

Do you know him?

Professional, professional geologist probably.

Keep in mind.

It says home address.

Okay.

I didn't even look up there.

What do you think?

Yes.

Well, why don't you make a motion?

Gerald Sanford, PT, Board of Stoning Appeals.

Any other appointments we need to know about, Amanda?

So I guess Mary Cunningham has been reappointed?

Java has also asked that we please do appoint her as well.

The Java Advisory Council.

Mr. Parr?

No.

Uh, moving on to directives, Mr. Barton, Mr. Reed.

When are we going to schedule our meeting on recreation?

Or is it too early?

Three o'clock.

What'd you say, Amanda?

If we make it three o'clock, it'll be the same time as a short term Olin, and then we're less likely to get confused.

That's the next lark.

And that's recreation.

Why?

Because I have something to do.

Four o'clock.

Four o'clock.

So this would be a continued... At the end of our meeting, at the evening session, we'd continue it to then.

Yeah.

Correct.

Full board work?

So we'll make sure we do that continue at the end of our evening session.

Is this just recreation?

You already did it?

Just be prepared if you go, Mr. Barton.

Matthew, Matthew.

Well, yeah, Matthew verbally took me on a tour.

Oh, good.

Because you all participated in his little thing, right?

Maybe we'll find some more lines.

Today or tomorrow, maybe.

Hopefully I'll be closing on the property within the next month and a half, so.

Is that where you're gonna live with you, in the pride?

It should be a huge piece for my family history.