Board of Supervisors Meeting   11/20/2020

Mr. Rutherford?

Yes.

Mr. Parr?

Yes.

Mr. Barton?

Yes.

Mr. Reed?

Yes.

Yes.

Okay.

The applicants of this application are proposing to resend a residential R1 to A1 agriculture to allow the conversion of their current brewery operation to a farm already that doesn't have public.

Public hearing was held at the Planning Commission meeting on July 22nd.

After this hearing, additional revised proffers were submitted by the applicants for review requiring a second public hearing for the Planning Commission on August 26th.

Following that public hearing, Planning Commission voted 3 to 1 to recommend approval of the application.

Contingent upon the county attorney to be unaccepted of the proffers.

No substantial changes were made or requested.

The county attorney indicated the proffers were acceptable.

The Board of Supervisors held their public hearing on this matter on October 13th, and now I'm going to defer to this meeting to assess the proffers and whether or not redundant proffers will be upheld against ABC farm wire licensing.

Thank you.

And welcome.

And we're in there.

From the last meeting of the conversation, the idea that it didn't really help feel what a seven-barrel system was that was one of the problems.

So I'm going to try and explain it a little bit.

A farm brewery is able to make up to 25,000 barrels per year.

And that's the limit of a farm brewery.

A seven barrel system, in order to reach that limit, would have to grow over 3,500 pounds in a year to even come close to that.

Now, a 365 day, that's almost 10 brews a day.

And a brew is about $8 long.

So there's no way that a seven barrel system could even come close to reaching a farm brewery limit.

Now, if you err on the high side, the high side means you do it three times a week in seven minutes.

That's going to try to get you to a word a little bit about what that feels like.

Three days a week is pretty tough because you have a lot of time cleaning and pressing and irrigation and packaging.

Other things that need to go on during a birdie operation, but let's say you pushed it to the max.

It's three times a day, or three days a week, 50 weeks a year.

You've got to have two weeks off or some type of vacation.

You can come out to about 1,000 barrels a year.

That's the max that that system could ever make on the property.

Now just to equate that with 1,000 barrels, well that's 2,000 kilos.

and I don't know where you can store 2,000 headaches in a year to be pre-dopited in the headquarters of a space and refrigeration and things, upgrades on a property that are not there at all.

In gallons, 31,000 gallons a year.

How many pints can you drink out of that?

Almost 250,000 pounds.

So that's

Usually an idea of how much beer that could make, could make, if you're pushing it.

And that's if you're all serving it there.

Now, assuming you're trying to bird, you're going to want to send some pigs out to restaurants and other places outside the brewery.

So you're not drawing people into the property, but you're able to make more profit by someone outside the brewery.

If you're assuming that you're going to open the brewery for five days a week, it's a week's a year, 250 days, right?

Divide those pints, and again, you're going to get the maximum number of pints you can serve, just under a thousand pints a day.

Well, if you're just a pint per person, which is a reasonable number, a little under 500 people per day can show up in over a seven hour period.

The maximum number of people you can have there are 70 people per day.

That's where we have the property owner taking them in.

Additionally, we're talking about building upstairs as a 50 person one.

And that's postcode, but that's not what we're talking about now.

Downstairs, you maybe have another 10 people.

So the most you're going to be able to get inside is a very 60 person.

Part of everything I've looked at is generally calculated as one car per four people.

So that would be about 15 cars.

Curran Parking is the max we could probably fit on that property, really realistically 20.

And if you said 20 cars max, that would be 80 people per hour.

That's not going to be realistic because you're not going to like that whole vehicle shelter.

Again, it's just going to be like unreal solutions max that could possibly show.

Now if we had any additional parking, it would be a very high quality.

uh separate lines running behind the house down to that lower field would have to be dealt with there's large fields which require considerable excavating the lower field has to separate and a creek down there and the access on 151 is very sharp thin so you get a line of sight probably not a lot of access at that or an Indian idea here's the property um

This is an older plaque.

This is when it was a school.

And that fence line is pretty close to what would be where the hill starts.

So from there, all the way back to the other part of the field.

And that's the little field, the creek down there.

And the little field has the stuff, the drain system down there as well.

There's power lines running through it.

Anybody in their right mind would really spend that kind of money just to put parking there.

So the one real space we have is what I outlined is the 20 cars over there to the right.

That's about a match you're going to get on that property.

It's just not going to hold anymore.

Looking at it from the hill, the hill is pretty steep because it's not, it's not what you're looking at.

This is pretty big down at the bottom.

This is that line of sight as we're trying to start acting on 151.

You've got the color lines running over your head.

You've got a sharp end.

I don't know how it's even possible for VDOT to allow that between the pilot.

I brought it only to space down there.

There's one little corner down there.

And I'm not a kid to us.

But that would be somewhat free of the line, even though it's a little bit thicker a little bit.

So this is giving you an idea of a farmry property limitation.

So looking at the current parking of 80 people per hour, the deer capacity is 70 people per hour.

You're not going to have any of them in certain parts per hour.

Just be doing the math.

But why seven-barrel systems?

If you look at those numbers, they're pretty close.

It matches the property limits.

Another reason for a seven-barrel system, it's a good number.

You're starting to get started at that level, but it's usually a test batch, and you're going to go to much larger systems beyond that.

Go one into the seven-barrel, and that's the process.

It's pretty prohibitive to the physical limitations of the building and the property and the size of the system.

And anything on a small business would not make visible sense at this location.

So it will be limited to a small business.

And I think it's strange that we're looking at that.

So, hi, I'm Terri Sutarka.

And the reason that we're talking about the seven barrel system is because we offered that, I think when we discussed that nothing larger than a seven barrel system, we're not intending to put a seven barrel system on.

And most community concern has been not with what our business plan and what we intend to do, but what if someone buys a property down the road and what could they do?

And so we're trying to illustrate the limitations of the space and the system that would hopefully alleviate concerns about what someone else could do down the road.

What did you base the argument, you know, for us having that?

That was a Chuck Miller estimate.

Well, I mean, also, we don't really need to allow for that type of structure.

I'm sorry.

Oh, based on the structural strength.

And Chuckie.

They're not occupying those indoor spaces, right?

Correct.

Your reputation is to talk to me immediately.

And we have the B&B group.

No.

No.

No.

No.

We are finishing out the second floor in the old room in the barn.

We have a 10 gallon system.

We like a small system.

What we're trying to illustrate is based on previous conversations that a lot of the concern is after

We're gone with our tiny small business and we sell the property.

What's the next person going to do?

And we're trying to illustrate that the biggest system they could put in is the seven-barrel and the property.

I'm going to allow it to be the margin.

Would you agree to do it on the farm to take all that people inside the barn?

One day, yes.

I mean, as I've had a chance to look over this and get an understanding and getting into the attorney, you know, I know

Having a special use permit is always a big concern.

It's always spot zone.

That's always a concern.

And it's something we always want to look out for.

I do know in this particular circumstance, I know we say it's residential, but it's residential in, I don't even know, less than a square mile worth.

And then across the street, it's agriculture.

I mean, you know, as I related and look into this, and Dylan and I may have a question into my thought, you know,

The proffers that go on this property, and this is to echo kind of what we've heard, what we've learned, and how Dylan can echo or explain further, the proffers that they volunteer will be there forever.

They run with the property, you know, and that's something that needs to be echoed.

It's those particular proffers do not get eliminated when they go to a farm used brewery or whatever it is, or whatever in the future they may become.

Um, you know, if we're talking about relative to the residential aspect, you know, do I see it as a residential area?

You know, not going across the street, you can go and have to go farm or a big farm, whatever kind of farm you want.

So I think that's just a little disingenuous there.

Yes, they do.

So some of that has already been kind of calculated in there, and of course, along with that comes the Department of

I personally believe that this particular concept is a good one, at least for Nelson.

We're going to come down to COVID.

Of course, not many people are ambitious right now, and I can appreciate the ambition that they're trying to put forth.

Of course, safety is always a concern.

We always want to, and what's great about Nelson County and the stopgats we have is we do have the help of

We do have ABC regulators.

We do have VDOT.

We do have all of those.

And obviously, we have another one here.

We have the planning commission.

That thing comes to us.

And then we get to debate that more.

And that's a healthy thing.

I do know for me, as it relates, that I do not see a major concern to the small concept that they've obviously proffered.

Dylan, I've got a question for you.

I'm not sure.

They all happened before I got here.

They're kind of a mixture.

Some of them have farm brewery permits.

Some of them have farm winery permits.

Anyone with a restaurant had to secure a special use permit.

And in the past, it was different.

I'm not sure what ABC's limits for production have been in the past.

Because that would give me an idea of scale relative to what they do because if, for instance, if Blue Mountain is limited to the same amount, you could, you know, and that's their limit, but of course they are in production.

And the question is not the size of your property.

Thank you.

They said in proper only two goats.

Three.

This is the back row here.

This is the zone.

Is your stomach correct on here?

I'm talking about the yellow thing.

Right there.

Okay.

That's the one we're looking at in the bathroom.

And they have a car lot.

All the yellows are on residential.

The red is uh... Well... Red is a marshal.

That right there is church.

That behind there, I believe, is church.

Right above that is church property.

It's all residential, single-family run.

That's a property, I believe, that's either up for sale or legally controlled.

I understand that's a church, but it's a church that's sitting in an attic.

It's a church sitting in an agriculture zone.

Oh no, I'm not saying they are.

I'm just saying if it wasn't a church, it would be an attic.

it would be a tree is an ag and then behind it it's more ag and then all that is that taller or faller?

Taller way, I guess all that?

Taller way.

Taller way, it's an ag.

And then you got the apartments which is interesting.

What they did is they did pretty much flow off the main road.

Yeah.

And they normally made it 250 quilt feet.

I said, on the inside of Avon and 151, that's our one.

I'm intrigued that the apartments aren't all in R1.

Uh...

Yeah.

Well, that's in A1.

Well, my only confusion is I've questioned several of these farmwives, voters, and everybody up here says you can't touch them.

Now, the one we talked about was a special-use mid-force restaurant.

So you're telling me that all those things he did in special-use are still in effect, but yet

Right off the bat.

Yes.

Yes.

Sometimes I'm just confused.

I mean, you know.

Those violations on the river down there.

So the one you have concerns with, are there properties that are not being enforced?

It's not been informed that it was approved, it was verified at that time.

That's what we're coming in for, a fresh purchase.

You can't, if we're having issues with, with properties that have been volunteered and they're not being adhered to, we are the mechanism that polices that, and that needs to happen.

I mean we can't, we're failing at policing it, that's our hope.

You know, and I hadn't seen that particular circumstance.

If that is its circumstance, we'll just go look into it.

I agree that we have problems with production facilities along 151.

I think that's a real problem with our report.

I think it's something that the Planning Commission is going to be addressing soon.

We'll be addressing it at some other point.

But my assumption, and it might be incorrect, is that those areas are not operating under any proper scenarios.

They're just doing what's fine.

And I agree that is a problem.

I don't see those problems with this.

I think that some targets have done a good job with this.

I went to a site and agreed that the scale that's going to be proffered is in keeping with the area and not

to impose significant changes to the neighborhood.

I'm really lucky that when someone does the work that's necessary to do and gets the Planning Commission to approve of it, that through a decision of power that I have, I can stop them from doing that.

I understand your concerns.

And I understand the concerns that people live in that district about overdevelopment and too much.

I think these proffers that we kept asking the lawyer, are these proffers, are they going to stay in force?

Yes, we said they would stay in force.

And there's something else.

I really depend on my intuition too much.

But my intuition is that these people are sincere in what they want to do.

They want to be part of our community.

And I'm reluctant to say no.

No, I'm listening to you.

I mean, I understand why people are

I'm afraid that their moral lifestyle will be impinged by only development.

And, you know, that's my own prejudice.

I had no problem with that one before.

I know her a lot when I did him, but no doubt.

But my point is, it's bad zoning.

It doesn't get practically good zoning.

It's packed everything in it.

You know those little doctors out in the room?

That's two structures of the young man.

This whole community has been burnt time after time.

on these things and we are so inconsistent here at the county level.

I don't know what your problem is, but every time you do it, I ask the question, it comes up, oh, it's a farm line and you can't do anything about it.

You know, I'm listening to you and that's, you know, and I think the crime example has nothing to do with this, but you look into one, I hope y'all read that thing that

Dylan was sent out.

He was born in Almonte County, which is right across the line.

I bet you you put some rocks on Nelson County.

They've gone in and built a tremendous size event.

I mean, it's, you know, no building, no inspections.

Of course, in the article in the Constitution, one place says they have no

D.M.S.

Payne, I know somebody that does, but evidently not.

It's on a small secondary road that doesn't require an entrance on the highway.

So that's why there's so much inconsistency.

It has to be the known highway requirements over there.

I think the issue is that all of the changes need to occur on a state level in the state legislation.

As far as nothing goes, we can only regulate the land use and take those things into account.

That's a failure right there.

I mean, you've got all the residential housing, you've got the church right there.

But the other thing on this, the other property doesn't mean something to you.

The way the agency is going is, when they did that thing and just put staff on it, they don't even have any regulations in themselves to govern things by.

So what they say is, well, we don't address that, so I guess it's okay.

You know, most things they come up with is very specific, everything they go through.

And in this case, they just throw their hands up and say we don't have anything to do with it.

Okay, any other questions?

Mr. Chairman, I'd like to second.

Do you agree, Dylan?

I agree with him that we must

I agree with you.

Do you want to close that?

The proposal is to enact an ordinance in the middle of Chapter 3, as Mr. Harvey said, that would prohibit dogs from running at large.

The draft ordinance describes when a dog would be running at large, when a dog would not be running at large, violations for allowing a canine to run at large, and what those violations would entail as far as civil memory.

$150 for a dog running at large, $100 for a dog running at pack.

Just very briefly, the ordinance says when a dog is running at large, while roaming or running off the property of its owner or custodian, it is not under its owner's or custodian's

I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

bordering the property of the dog owner, dog owner or custodian, or other person consented to the dog's presence on public driveway, public road, public sidewalk, or public trail, a dog is not considered to be running at large.

If the dog is used for hunting, during field trials or training, or for formal obedience, agility, or similar training periods,

when the dog is accompanied by its owner or custodian.

And lastly, I think the dog is securely fenced, specifically designated dog park or dog exercise area.

And lastly, there are two other categories, a service dog,

and after those provisions, the ordinance prescribes violations for a dog return to be running at large in violation of the ordinance.

Okay, we will open the public hearing.

Not every night, but once a week, once every couple of weeks, sometimes twice a night.

and there's another big dog that belongs to the same line, they run wild and you know we just hate working up at night and also we have an Airbnb, it's pretty nice and um you know people come there for mostly to get out of Washington and sell their

Really other places around the country, too.

Mostly from metro areas and they're looking for some quiet.

And these dogs wake them up.

Not a lot, but when they do, you know, they have to apologize for, you know, my neighbor's dogs just burning all over the place.

And I guess, you know, I don't know how this would be.

Oh, there's some other dogs.

There's been some hounds that come onto our property.

And there have been a few times when towns would come by and I realized they're hunting dogs, but they're just

And I know that they're not always, I'm guessing they're not easy to control, but you know, they come around and they'll bar for an hour.

I have pictures on my phone.

I managed to find them in the woods at night, which wasn't easy.

But they're just creating a ruckus.

You know, there's no point at this point in calling animal control because they can't do anything.

and if we call it night, you know, so I'm hoping that in the implementation of this, you know, you're not relying on animal control to come out because most of the time by the time animal control comes out, the dogs should be gone.

And we go on to the pre-hint rule too.

Hi there, I'm Nick Rush, Chapel Road.

First I just want to say I had some problems with the powers of the dogs.

They take their dogs out

and there's a few bad actors.

We have people in our neighborhood.

We have hunting dogs that they just let run for 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

Nobody's hunting.

It's not even hunting season.

The dogs are just running around the neighborhood.

It's a nuisance.

The dog shows up at our bedroom window at three o'clock in the morning and barks for half an hour waking up me and my dog and my wife and our dogs.

and I don't think any of the owners of this room will want that for themselves.

And we know whose dog it is, so there needs to be a way to kind of hold the owner accountable for the nuisance that the owner's dog is creating.

Mary Rush.

So ever since we moved here, So it's Mary Rush.

And ever since we moved here about six years ago, when I was at a large hospital, I worked like a dog for hours a day.

And one of the most things I've always learned is you were just able to go out for walks.

When we first came here, it was wonderful.

I could go down the road.

I could do my two-mile walk into the street.

And then, maybe a year into it, all of a sudden, I was having two debris.

It was like a pack of huge dogs coming down and chasing me.

And I would just be so scared.

I was told by animal control I had to carry bear maze.

Because they had the right to come down unless I got home or injured.

There was nothing I could do.

So I just love the right to walk in this beautiful area again and have not allowed the dogs to just roam through.

And I shouldn't have to carry here, Denise.

First of all, I'd like to thank the board and especially David Parr for the consideration that you all have given to this matter.

And as you all know my story, I've been attacked twice.

My dogs when I was walking on 56, one time the dogs actually came onto my property and the dog attacked me.

And so I'm very anxious to see that this is implemented and also recently on property that my home is located.

I now have two strange dogs that are constantly coming into my backyard.

So I commend you for doing this.

and it is my hope that it will pass as an ordinance and that we will have some type of leash law and the dogs cannot just run wild.

I understand people hunt on my property.

They have the right to do that, but their dogs are under control.

So please, please make sure that this ordinance is adopted.

Bonnie Stevens My name is Bonnie Stevens.

I'm an employee of the Nelson County Humane Society.

I work with David Parr and animal control to try to establish this ordinance.

Our goal is not to go around picking up every stray dog in the county.

That's not our job as a humane society, but we would like

to be able to get dogs back to their owners if they're lost.

So having a collar and an IT tag is very helpful in that regard.

And we'd like to make sure that people are responsible for their dogs, that they know where they are, that they're controlling them.

We recognize this is a rural county where people like to hunt and we have no intention of interfering with hunting.

The hunters generally keep their dogs well powered

know where they are or tracking them.

Same with farm dogs.

We understand that farm dogs are there to protect livestock, and we have no intention of interfering with that.

So it's really just a tool in the toolbox for animal control and for us to help when there's a situation with a particular dog.

Thank you.

I love dogs.

My best friend is a big dog.

Edward Waterfield.

And my dog, my friend is a big dog.

And the reason I give him his name back is nobody learns more about love than a dog.

But it's my wish because it broke up to me really bad on my way.

So I got with the

Department of Game, and then officials at the scene.

And there's two separate ordinances in this thing.

I mean, you all correct me if I'm wrong.

And instead, 151 West, no dogs could run wrong, but 151 on this side of the county, they could run that wrong.

And I realize, I say I love dogs, and they can help suckers when they see one.

But, I mean, 38 years ago,

160-pound Rockwell.

I got the scars today, still I think 38 years ago, that I hadn't been a big strong man who could kill me.

So I realized in terror my son was holding my hand in that dog's patent.

He was only four years old.

My son didn't get a scratch on him, but he was 25 years old before he would even let himself get near him.

And like I say, if there are two separate ordinance in this county,

All right, thank you.

Is that it?

Mr. Porter, what it is, 151 down the line,

County Line, as far as deer dogs and bad dogs.

Now, not a lot of hunt on the west side of 1521 for deer with dogs.

But you can hunt on the east side.

And then when the bad season comes in, they can run dogs on both sides.

I'll check with my expert over here.

I know he knows it.

But that's what that is.

It's not two different audiences.

It's a state code is what it is.

And it has to protect them from the bear hunters up in these big mountains and things where people are not running deer with dogs and screwing up the bear hunters.

And they modified that sum through the years trying to make both sides happy.

But that's what that is.

Okay, anybody else not on my list?

I'm Brenda Saunders.

I live in Afton and I know I'm in the minority and I know this is going to pass and that's okay.

I'm just, you move out to a rural area to be country.

and if you want your dogs on a leash, my attitude is go back to the name city.

But if you're in the neighborhood, I totally get it.

If you're in a neighborhood with a bunch of houses like we've got around and little sections, they definitely need to be on a leash.

But if you're out on a farm way out in the country and your neighbors is a quarter mile down the road, I just don't get it.

I don't understand why it can't just be for the neighborhoods.

where you've got people letting dogs run loose, but that's just my opinion.

One other thing besides the dogs, just quick.

You guys have been talking a long time, three years, about getting up and planning things instead of just spot changing your regulations and your zoning and all that.

But yet you continue to spot change everything.

So maybe y'all could get your very own time to fix that.

My name is David McGann.

I live in Athens.

I was approached by David Parr and a couple of other people.

There's a dog on it in Nelson.

Only 23 honey dogs.

I can see

I take very care of her.

I'd like to know where all the dogs are and all the hunters that really take care of the dogs.

They already know where the dogs are.

These dogs are running large around Cooper County.

Those people just really don't care for their dogs or don't care for the people that they bother.

Only thing I can say is I'd be glad to see a hornet in Nelson County that can detect other people if they want to walk down the roads.

We got hundreds and hundreds of people hunting dogs in Nelson County

When we talk about them, we talk about their heritage, and you get hurt them when you try to hurt their heritage.

But this ordinance that we have set out to look at, grown together, it's not only at St. Albemarle County, it ain't Augusta County,

and Nate Buckingham, that's Nelson County, one that's coming together with a lot of people, two big hunting groups, one from Mr. Coffey's up across the town, a bunch of them over in Afton and in Shipman, they're all the way down there, and they put Buckingham to come together with them.

And we're trying to work together with all the funds, so we can protect the public from rock-logging, all kind of other dollars that people don't hear right from the streets and back and forth.

For the area of the day, I'm just trying to tell you that as far as the boil-wise is, I've got a lot of people standing behind me on this audience and I'd like to see it pass because there's got to be a control of somebody, Donald.

It's not going to hurt you.

And like I said, the animal's going to throw a pass in the world for three minutes, but

The animal control man ain't gonna come down and lock every dog up even though it's on the farm and we live in a rural area.

He's going around.

He's not looking for that kind of dog.

Now, if he's coming in and bothering people and gotta keep calling, this is gonna give our animal control person authorities to go ahead and put their foot down and have control of the public when they don't listen about the dog bothering people.

They say they can

And they will listen after that.

Thank you.

Members of the board, ladies and gentlemen,

My name is Carl Coffey.

I live in the Massesville area, 1855 Deaton Road.

I also was asked to sit on this committee that put this ordinance together.

And I personally think that it needs to be adopted and enforced.

I'm a hunter.

I have close to $20,000.

They're contained.

They go out with my property, they have GPS calls on, and I don't know exactly where they are.

I was asked pretty much to be on here on the committee because of the hunters.

Even all of the hunters that I have contacted, the Stevens, and probably have more people and more hounds than anybody here in the county going along with it and likes it.

I believe he told me that we need to have something happen in the county concerning this problem.

I think we all, all the citizens of this county need to be protected.

Bishops don't.

Hunting dogs, so be it.

Thank you for listening to me.

Thank you.

Does anyone else like to speak to this subject?

Do you want to speak to them?

I can't know all the additional comments.

Mr. Chairman, I'm first and foremost like to compliment Mr. Parr for his efforts on this matter.

As we always know, when we start talking about a man's dog, you know, it does get personal.

And it does, you know, that's a good thing to have personal.

Now, one thing that I am grateful for, Mr. Parr, was the diplomacy of him, talking about both sides of the conversation, how we preserve the

the heritage of hunting dogs in Virginia and specifically Nelson County.

I appreciate the comment that this is not Augusta's Mall, this is not Alton Mall, this is not Buckingham, this is Nelson County and we're making it Nelson County.

You know, the conversation about these dogs is, you know, sometimes there's, if you're a good neighbor, you know what, you do call your neighbor and say the dog's over.

You know, where that dog is,

before a situation does create itself.

We've seen that before.

I have a question for Mr. Parr.

I agree with just how much the song is Mr. Dan.

I don't think we're necessarily in the minority in Nelson County.

There isn't much harm in the house, as Mark Twain said, you know.

I think all the ground and beagles can make some noise and do some things that don't create much harm.

But a person who takes a walk down the street has a right to feel safe.

And we have to recognize that.

And I mean, before the ordinance, they should have been protected against that anyway.

But it's great difficulty.

We are depending upon our animal control officers to be realistic in their enforcement of this law if we pass it.

When you live in the country and your dog needs to go out, you let him out the back door.

That's what you do.

I don't think anybody wants people to walk down the street and have to take a leash to their dog.

But if that dog misbehaves even once, that person has to be put on notice that they need to control their dog or they're going to face some consequences.

Because we all have rights to walk.

And I like,

Mr. Rutherford said, this part did a great job of this.

It's really a nice statement.

You brought all these people together and if we could actually agree, my wife used to show up here in all these time meetings about dogs and she would, she's a vegetarian, yet she would talk about dogs have certain rights too.

Kerr, who live in the country.

And dogs sometimes run free or don't cause harm.

They all aren't one little area.

And so I certainly support this ordinance.

But I really feel that the vast majority of dogs do not

We don't need to be afraid of dogs.

They're our best friends.

More of the comments?

Can I?

Yeah.

I'll take that.

I've got a, what started this was, I'm gonna start at the end with a quote that, what started all this was a quote someone said after their dog attacked someone in this room was, you don't have a leash on, you can't do anything about it.

The intent of the ordinance is not for our hand in control officers chasing your chocolate lab as it's running through the neighborhood, rubbing it against everybody and shaking it to the sail.

That is not the intent.

We all want to enjoy living in the country and let our dogs do their thing.

The intent is, I'll lead to the second quote that Bonnie said, the intent is a tool in the toolbox for hand in control.

Until that happens, they can't do anything.

When the dog starts becoming a nuisance, Officer Wright steps in.

That's it.

So, with that being said, I will move that we approve the amendment to County Code Chapter 3 Article 2.20. large O2020-02.

Any further discussion?

Mr. Reed?

Mr. Rutherford?

Yes.

Mr. Barton?

Mr. Harvey, Mr. Harvey, Mr. Harvey, Mr. Harvey, Mr. Harvey, Mr. Harvey, Mr. Harvey,

This is a request for special use permit to allow office use on properties on day one agricultural at 910 Beech Grove Road.

The lease

is a Jeffrey Truslow owned by Kathy Miller.

The property was used as a special use permit for an antique shop back in 2001.

Since then, it's been in several commercial uses, most recently as a salon.

When the new tenant applied for a signed permit for their office operation, which is called Mountain Life of Virginia, it was determined that the use would require a special use permit.

Both antique shops and offices are special use permits,

and the Agriculture District.

So the original special use permit for that antique shop would have become void when that particular use had stopped for more than two years.

The area of agricultural residential and nature, there's some commercial in there.

I've got this drawn up for you because the EIS lines were a little off so we had the Commissioner of Revenue sort that out for us.

So essentially the lines were shipped in that.

Everything just needed to be shifted over, so this is the first one question right here.

Right now, floodplains on the property.

The property is accessed by Beach Grove Road.

VDOT reviewed the entrance and provided the existing entrance.

The sign's factoring does not need any upgrades.

We'll look it up here.

They're meeting on October 28th at the planning commission recommended unanimous approval of the application without condition and there were no speakers at that public hearing.

I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

The applicant is here as well.

The purple designation would be the service enterprise district.

And the A1 zone for Vincent sign, I have to look, but I believe it's 50 square feet, but the sign is nowhere near that sign.

Not good.

We all have good reputations.

That was good.

I'm sorry.

2020-06 Any other comments?

I'd like to move that we approve special use permit number 2020-06

Officer-in-law in Zoning, Jeffrey Cuslow, and Anthony Scobro.

Second.

Discussion?

Mr. Rutherford?

Yes.

Mr. Barnes?

Yes.

Mr. Reed?

Yes.

Mr. Harvey?

Thank you all very much.

OK, let's go back.

I have to answer my question.

I remember we were talking about enrollment.

Is it correct that it's gone up?

No.

Oh.

No.

We did not drop as I think we discussed before with the state.

They always do a projection lower and

then they bring it back to whatever the reality is based on that September 30th funding.

So they have us at 100 less for the next two years and we only drop five feet.

When do you go back to school?

I hope personally soon.

What time is that meeting, tomorrow?

Thursday night, six o'clock.

Thursday night, six o'clock.

Well, I was kind of waiting to see if you guys are going to talk about it, and if you have any questions, I hope that we can work together for the good of all of our staff.

I think it would be a huge boost for all of

staff members for the county and for the schools who have been working hard.

I think it would be a great economical boost to put some money out there.

Thank you.

Thank you.

OK, let's get back to reports.

I'm trying to be brief.

The COVID-19 virus, the county staff continue to monitor that.

We're regularly reporting what information Dr. Bonds related to the board earlier this evening.

With respect to county staff, all of our staff are back working in their respective office locations.

We don't have any county staff currently impacted directly by the virus.

Secondly, the CARES Act funding the county in partnership with Central Virginia Services Inc. Firefly was awarded two grants and state funding for broadband.

The first is for expansion into the Niner River area and the second is for expansion of fiber up to Sugarloaf Mountain where the county has its radio communications equipment.

A lot of credit, or most credit goes to the CBSI.

They did all the work, but the county had to be the applicant.

So those are the only two applications that Firefly felt could be completed by the end of December, which is sort of the constraint on this funding is that everyone has to finish by December 31st.

On the total project, we are essentially finished with phase three.

We've been working to open the project completely on both eastern and western trails in the tunnel within the next couple weeks.

We'll publicly note that we were waiting for some signage.

We have some equipment we want to put in place, some animal-proof trash cans, some counters for counting the number of people using the trail, some signage on the

some rules, a way to try to observe while you're using the trail, things like that.

But at this point, yeah, the trail's pretty much ready to go.

Well, it wasn't this weekend.

The Town River Water System Project, we have a hiccup where the project didn't include the removal of the elevated water tank.

We're waiting on the change order for that, but fortunately the funding that's in the budget was included in the budget to cover that.

The project's once scheduled to be finished at the end of this month, and there's a problem with the change order for the tank's removal.

One of the issues has been that the engineers just reported concerning the contractor is there is wireless equipment on the top of the tank.

We continually ask the company to remove that equipment when they haven't done so.

So we sent them another message today requesting that they do something about it.

So hoping they will.

As previously reported, the county awarded a contract for the 2022

off of the ruins of Daleville.

The reassessment will be completed by next December 31st and the contract amount is $305,000.

The Piney River wastewater system, we need to repair the Simcoe Home Station, which is one of the primary pump

We're going to release that contract either later this week or early next week.

And the expense is going to be roughly $40,000.

The budget, the funding department has begun the initial budget work for 21-22.

The auditors are here today and the rest of the week to complete the FY20 audit.

But first, the General Assembly, the special session authorized a bonus for sheriff's employees, but it's only funded by the state, and we have eight deputies who aren't funded for state funding.

So it costs to provide that bonus to all sheriff's deputies, including the sheriff's

$40.25.

That would enable all the deputies to receive several dollars with respect to county and school staff.

We ask the Board to consider that.

If the Board, in a similar amount of $550 for a county and for a part-time

I thought I had it written in.

$44,405.63.

In discussion or emails back and forth with Dr. Eagle, if that virus was approved up to 1,000 for full-time employees and part-time employees, that $44,000

And lastly, Dr. Eagle had sent an email to Mr. Harvey on October 23rd, suggesting a joint meeting of the school board and board of supervisors.

And she proposed meeting dates of December 1 on December 3rd.

As far as the vote is concerned, another thing we would ask the board to consider tonight is the votes for the county home supported deputies because the state is required to disperse the state funding for those deputies on December 1st, so we won't meet again prior to that date.

You know, and I think a piece of that is, you know, we run into, hey, there's a lot of people who work really hard, especially in our school systems during the time of COVID.

A concern I do have is, you know, a lot of people lost their jobs in the midst of COVID.

A lot of people did.

I know a lot of people are struggling still today recovering from COVID.

And, you know, as much as I'd like to give out

I'm a little hesitant in that.

A lot of people already lost their jobs.

I'm not saying that we can't figure out, I mean, what is our deadline?

No.

We have to work with that decision.

Right.

$4,844.25 The state supporting the deputies will be taking over the state line.

So there are state troopers getting among us?

Not to jack up.

I think that they're not including the state.

Yeah, I mean, the deputies worked on this entire job.

I have a question.

No.

What we've discussed with that funding is, say, by the next board meeting, it looks like we're not going to be able to expend all of the funding that's still available, that we can do a cost allocation that would be based on percentage of the facility employees' time for how much they work within that CARES Act arena.

So we can't just give everyone

A bonus with CARES Act running.

It has to be applicable to CARES Act.

So for example, dispatchers, law enforcement, would easily probably cover their salaries for some specified period of time.

And for employees like administrations and CARES officer staff, we're dealing with government-related situations.

to ensure the county fully utilizes our funding if it comes to that, but that's not our goal, of course.

They are doing it, so why do we need to approve anything?

The funding is only state funding for state-supported deputies.

We want to amend it.

The motion would be to approve $4,844.25 to provide for the accounting company-supported deputies.

I'm going to share this point.

Second?

Second.

Mr. Reed?

Yes.

Mr. Rutherford?

Yes.

Mr. Parr?

Yes.

Mr. Barton?

Yes.

Mr. Harvey?

Mr. Reed?

On October 22nd, Frank Gamble,

at the station.

So the Sonico facility there receives materials from the transfer station in Madison County, which is where all of our recyclers go through.

And that Sonico facility accepts mostly single-stream, which would include glass, which we don't recycle.

But we don't have to pay as much as we would pay if we did single stream recycling because we've already sorted out plastics and cardboard and metal.

So, sorry, tipping fees are less because of these.

The Sunco facility is really impressive.

They have 100 employees.

They have 30 sorters, which are people that work three shifts a day, sort of those 24 hours a day.

doing what the machinery cannot or will not do in terms of sorting all the mixed recyclable materials they get.

And although it's a very efficient system, quite a lot of stuff falls through the cracks and ends up to be landfilled.

The metal in theory is

100% recycled as a cardboard.

The glass, a very small percentage of that glass actually becomes more glass.

The rest of it is used as alternative daily cover at landfills, rut bed materials, fiberglass.

The big problem with recycling, which everybody is really aware of, is the plastics.

If you define recycling as repurposing and reformulating the material of the same product that it was originally, then none of the plastics are actually recyclable.

Number ones and number twos can be reprocessed into other consumer products.

Number ones, which are water and soda bottles, they are sorted out and shipped to a

And in fact, shout out to the schools.

From counting backwards to November 2nd through December 2nd, Flipping the Whale is at the different schools collecting plastic.

And the purpose of Flipping the Whale is to highlight the problems of plastic pollution.

does not end up in the, it ends up in the pollution stream as opposed to being repurposed.

Anyway, getting back to number ones, they are repurposed, although not really recycled.

Number twos, which are five non-blood pits to church and oil containers

So those don't go back to create the products that are original.

And those uses are only as good as they are until as long as there are markets.

The remainder of those plastics, which turns out to be 3% of the entire volume at the facility, get landfill because there's no other use for them.

So I guess we can assume that 3% of the plastics that we get through our

Recycling that actually do not get recycled.

But they do go directly into landfill and are not part of the trash stream.

So there is value in that.

So the conclusions that I came up with after this impressive day we spent, a friend and I spent, is that plastic recycling is basically a white lie that a lot of people are just not aware of the problems we're

Virtually all of our plastic products that we use are made from virgin plastics.

None of it is made from recycled plastics.

Virgin plastics, of course, are made that are refined petroleum fossil fuels, which generates toxic byproducts and pollution in the creation of those products.

Recycling plastic, though it's good intention, doesn't reduce the demand at all for virgin plastic products.

The only way to reduce demand of proliferation of plastics is to either reduce or refuse plastic when it's not necessary.

Some states have banned single-use plastics, but the commonwealth doesn't allow counties to take those kinds of steps here in Virginia.

So it continues to make good sense to support Nelson County's recycling program.

But education, especially consumer education, is important.

The County Recycling Program could probably better serve the county if it took a more active role in consumer education and also contribute towards maybe some better solutions.

We currently don't recycle glass and don't track the amount of glass consumed in the county.

Glass is costly to recycle and because of its weight and volume, it's costly to transfer.

Since our county economy has a significant food and beverage industry, it does pose an opportunity for us to be more responsible and to implement some kind of local creative initiative on how to handle the last beverage strategy.

And my county role could be to encourage or facilitate this, but it will have to come from a different sector.

I'll need to check, but I don't believe the local Sunoco operations accept glass.

They accept commingled recycling.

Right.

You know, so single-string glass is part of the single-string.

We used to do that, but not with the current operation.

If I may, just real quickly about plastics.

The county's tipping fee for disposal of solid waste is currently $30.25.

Our tipping fee to dispose of plastic, because it's not free or we're not collecting any revenue from it, it's either $50 or $60 a ton.

And that's compounded by the expense of transporting it to Madison Heights with very efficient loads because the typical load

and the county's 30-yard containers.

It's three tons or less versus 10 tons on average in our solid waste containers.

So as Mr. Reed's pointing out, but from a different perspective, recycling plastic is really not efficient in any respect.

But there are benefits to getting it

We have a lot of capacity in the landfill.

Yeah, what happens to plastics is that they don't get ready to break into smaller pieces.

Right, if it's landfilled, the landfills of today, which are engineers, have containment systems so that plastic can't escape the landfill.

Cannot.

Okay, but it's always there.

Well, everything's always there.

It cannot be raised up.

Yeah.

Okay.

From the EMS side, the extractor has been installed and there's a problem with the water pressure.

So can somebody reach out to somebody from the service authority and see if there's anything they can do about the water pressure down here.

The Social Services Board wants to thank you for your article on foster children.

That's a continuing concern, and I felt a little bit about it.

Thank you.

It has been a concern for a long time.

It's really public comment, but I will take one quick one.

It's not public comment, it's just a question.

Okay.

How do... Oh, I'm sorry.

How do we get VDOT involved to kind of like put rumble strips in there or slow the speed?

Because people coming down from there just fly.

No, we don't do that.

We're on the east side.

No, I'm talking about our side off of Afton Mountain Road.

East side of the mountain.

East side of the mountain.

How do we get it to be not involved with the rumble strips or something to get them to slow down?

We'll bring it up.

Thank you.

Okay.

As far as the public, we are going to exact the session again.

I hear that.

I'll go.

Alright, and 40% of us, at least, are released.

We need a motion to go into exact the session.

We'll do that first.

I moved the Nelson County Board of Supervisors to convene closed sessions to discuss the following permitted by the drinking code section G22-3711A.3 and 5.

One, discussion of the promotion and salary of an employee of the public body.

Three, discussion or consideration of the acquisition of real property for public purpose or discussion is no

Okay, second.