Central Virginia
Louisa County
Planning Commission Meeting 11/12/2026
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Planning Commission Meeting
11/12/2026
Attachments
11 12 2026 - Regular Meeting Agenda.pdf
PC 11 12 2026 RM Packet.pdf
Public Notice.pdf
CALL TO ORDER
ROLL CALL
INVOCATION
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
I. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
II. APPROVAL OF PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
1. Planning Commission - Regular Meeting - October 8, 2026
10 08 2026 PC Minutes.pdf
III. CONSENT AGENDA
IV. PUBLIC ADDRESS
V. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
VI. PUBLIC HEARINGS
1. Amendment to Chapter 86 Land Development Regulations – Proposed Addition – Inglewood Agricultural and Forestal District
PC Staff Report_Mittelman.pdf
Packet with Maps_Redacted.pdf
Draft amendment_Mittelman.pdf
2. Amendment to Chapter 86 Land Development Regulations – Proposed Addition – Yanceyville Agricultural and Forestal District
PC Staff Report_Thomas.pdf
Packet with Maps_Redacted.pdf
Draft amendment_Thomas.pdf
3. Amendment to Chapter 86 Land Development Regulations – Proposed Addition – Cuckoo Agricultural and Forestal District
PC Staff Report_Novogradoc.pdf
Packet with Maps_Redacted.pdf
Draft amendment_Novogradoc.pdf
4. Amendment to Chapter 86 Land Development Regulations – Proposed Withdrawal – Ellisville Agricultural and Forestal District
Ellis_Memo to PC (Marshall Request to Remove)_9.18.26.pdf
Packet with Maps_Redacted.pdf
5. Amendment to Chapter 86 Land Development Regulations – Proposed Addition – Ellisville Agricultural and Forestal District
PC Staff Report_Marshall.pdf
Packet with Maps_Redacted.pdf
draft amendment_Ellis_Marshall.pdf
6. Amendment to Chapter 86 Land Development Regulations – Proposed Addition – Healing Springs Agricultural and Forestal District
PC Staff Report_Rigsby.pdf
Packet with Maps_Redacted.pdf
draft amendment_Healing Springs.pdf
7. Amendment to Chapter 86 Land Development Regulations – Proposed Addition – Mountain Road Agricultural and Forestal District
PC Staff Report_Rigsby.pdf
Packet with Maps_Redacted.pdf
Draft amendment_Rigsby.pdf
8. Amendment to Chapter 86 Land Development Regulations – Proposed Addition – Taylors Creek Agricultural and Forestal District
PC Staff Report_Rigsby.pdf
Packet with Maps_Redacted.pdf
Draft Amendment.pdf
9. Amendment to Chapter 86 Land Development Regulations – Proposed Addition – Green Springs Agricultural and Forestal District
PC Staff Report_Tomlin.pdf
Packet with Maps_Redacted.pdf
Draft Amendment Tomlin.pdf
10. CUP2026-04 Gridline Camp LLC, Applicants; Sarah & Joseph Marshall and M & M Services, Inc, Owners – Conditional Use Permit Request
Gridline Camp, LLC Staff Report.pdf
11. CUP2026-05 The Towers, LLC, Applicants; County of Louisa, Owner – 15.2-2232 Review - Conformance with the Comprehensive Plan and Conditional Use Permit Request
The Towers, LLC Staff Report and Enclosures.pdf
12. Amendments to Chapter 86. Land Development Regulations Relating to Campground Considerations
PC Memo 11022026.pdf
2026-xx Campgrounds & Temp Work Force Lodging V3 10.21.2026.pdf
13. Amendments to Chapter 86. Land Development Regulations Relating to Electronic Message Signs
PC Memo 10.14.2026.pdf
ORD Electronic Message Signs (SEP Process in Ag & Res Zoning Districts) V4 10.14.26.pdf
VII. NEW BUSINESS
VIII. DISCUSSION
1. Update on Growth Management and Rural Preservation
PC Memo 11.05.2026.pdf
ORD - Residential Growth Mgt Regulations (combined WG doc) V2 11.05.2026.pdf
2. Draft Amendments for Review and Discussion - Various Housekeeping Items
PC Memo 11022026.pdf
ORD2025-03 ROW Dedication Requirements 2025 (REV 03122026)_wbn rev_10.29.26 lb 11.04.2026.pdf
ORD 2026 Property Line Adjustments and Vacation of Lot Lines (V2 06172026)_wbn rev_11.3.26.pdf
ORD 2026 Public Utility Setbacks DRAFT #2_wbn rev_10.29.26.pdf
ORD PUD Purpose and Intent V2 10282026.pdf
ORD 2026 Motor Vehicle Towing Services.pdf
ORD 2026 Nonconforming Uses & Lots Clarification 11.04.2026.pdf
ORD 2026 Growth Area Design Standards V2 11.04.2026.pdf
IX. REPORTS
1. Upcoming Public Hearing - Conditional Use Permit Request - Lumberton Crossroads LLC
CUP2026-06 Public Notice Language.pdf
Application_Redacted.pdf
2. Upcoming Public Hearing - 7 AFD Additions
Dec 10, 2026 - PC Meeting Public Notice.pdf
ANNOUNCEMENTS AND ADJOURNMENT
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:01:51
All right, I'd like to call this November meeting of Louisa County Planning Commission to order.
00:01:56
Ms. Johnson, can we have a roll call, please?
SPEAKER_15
00:01:59
Mr. Barlow?
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:02:01
Here.
SPEAKER_15
00:02:02
Mr. Hicks?
00:02:02
Here.
00:02:03
Mr. Painting?
00:02:04
Here.
00:02:04
Mr. Disosway?
00:02:05
Here.
00:02:06
Mr. Dickerson?
00:02:07
Here.
00:02:08
Mr. Quarles?
00:02:10
Mr. Goodwin?
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
00:02:10
Here.
SPEAKER_15
00:02:11
Mr. Kersey?
00:02:12
Here.
00:02:12
Ms. Michael?
00:02:13
Here.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:02:15
Thank you.
00:02:17
Please rise for the invocation led by Commissioner Dickerson followed by the Pledge of Allegiance led by Commissioner Painting.
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
00:02:24
Let us pray.
00:02:25
Father God, thank you for bringing us together tonight.
00:02:28
Give us the wisdom of King Solomon to make good decisions so we may leave Louisa County better than we found it for future generations to enjoy.
00:02:36
Be with us as we travel home tonight and help us all to reach our destination safely.
00:02:42
In Jesus' holy name we pray.
00:02:44
Amen.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:03:08
On to the agenda.
00:03:10
You have the agenda before you.
00:03:11
Do I have a motion to approve the agenda?
00:03:14
So moved.
00:03:14
Second?
00:03:15
Second.
00:03:15
Moved and seconded.
00:03:16
Do we have any adjustments to the agenda?
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
00:03:18
Mr. Chairman, I'd like to propose an adjustment to the agenda moving items four and five to between items nine and ten.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:03:29
Is that change the motion acceptable to the mover and the seconder?
00:03:35
No, I ask if that change was acceptable to those who made the motion and the second.
00:03:47
And the purpose in doing that is to collect all three items, four, five, and ten together to be considered sequentially.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
00:03:57
Mr.
00:03:58
Chair.
00:04:00
Would it be appropriate to take those three and move them after item 12?
00:04:11
And I'm asking the question, not making a suggestion.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:04:14
No, that would be more advisable to move four and five between nine and 10.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
00:04:22
Okay, understood.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:04:26
So is that acceptable to the motioner?
00:04:41
Yes, okay, and the seconder?
SPEAKER_18
00:04:44
That's fine.
00:04:45
Okay, very good.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:04:47
Any further discussion on the agenda?
00:04:52
Ms. Johnson, can we have a vote on the agenda, please?
SPEAKER_15
00:04:55
Mr. Hicks?
00:04:56
Yes.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:04:57
Mr. Paincy?
SPEAKER_15
00:04:57
Yes.
00:04:58
Mr. Disosway?
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:04:58
Yes.
00:04:59
Mr. Dickerson?
SPEAKER_15
00:05:00
Yes.
00:05:01
Mr. Goodwin?
00:05:01
Yes.
Jim Riddell
Chairman
00:05:02
Mr. Kersey?
SPEAKER_18
00:05:03
Yes.
Jim Riddell
Chairman
00:05:04
Very well.
00:05:05
The agenda is passed as adjusted.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:05:07
Next is approval of Planning Commission meeting minutes from October, packet pages 3 through 10.
00:05:15
Do we have a motion to approve the minutes as presented?
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
00:05:19
So moved.
00:05:19
Second.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:05:20
Moved and seconded.
00:05:21
Are there any discussions on the minutes as presented?
00:05:31
Very well.
00:05:31
Hearing none.
00:05:32
Ms. Johnson, we have a roll call vote.
SPEAKER_15
00:05:37
Mr. Hicks?
00:05:37
Yes.
00:05:38
Mr. Bainesing?
00:05:38
Yes.
00:05:39
Mr. Disosway?
00:05:40
Yes.
00:05:41
Mr. Dickerson?
00:05:41
Yes.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
00:05:42
Mr. Gimlin?
00:05:42
Yes.
SPEAKER_18
00:05:44
Mr. Percy?
00:05:44
Yes.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:05:45
Very well, the minutes of the October meeting are approved.
00:05:48
Next item is consent agenda.
00:05:50
We do not have a consent agenda this month, so we'll move on to public address.
00:05:54
Public address is a period of time when anybody in the public can come forward and
00:06:00
speak to the Planning Commission on anything that is not a public hearing tonight.
00:06:05
So if you're here to discuss something that is a public hearing tonight in the agenda this is not the time to speak.
00:06:12
But if there's anything else that's not a public hearing tonight then this is the proper time to come forward and speak.
00:06:19
I'm going to open the
00:06:22
Public Address Period.
00:06:23
Public Address Period is open and please come forward if you would like to speak to Planning Commission.
00:06:37
Very well, seeing none, I'll close Public Address Period.
00:06:40
It's closed.
00:06:41
Next item up is unfinished business.
00:06:44
At this point, we don't have any unfinished business.
00:06:48
Ms. Buckler, is that correct?
00:06:49
Very good.
00:06:50
Then we move on to public hearings.
00:06:53
and we'll start with AFD for Englewood.
00:07:01
Ms. Brakeville.
Maggie Brakeville
Land Development and Agricultural Conservation Coordinator
00:07:02
Yes sir, thank you.
00:07:04
Okay, so before we get started, just a quick update.
00:07:08
Tonight we'll have a total of 539.42 acres.
00:07:12
If approved, it will bring the new total to 41,737.84 acres.
00:07:22
If you consider all applications currently pending, so those are the ones that you'll see in the coming months, the total will be 44,836.9 acres.
00:07:32
So just wanted to give you a quick update to let you know where we are.
00:07:37
The first public hearing is the Inglewood Ag Forestal District.
00:07:41
Landowner is Lewis Middleton Jr.
00:07:43
It's one parcel.
00:07:45
It's 86.792 acres.
00:07:47
The use is timber.
00:07:48
It is in the Louisa voting district and it was recommended by Ag Forestal Committee.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:07:53
Very well, any questions for Ms. Brakeville at this time?
00:08:01
Hearing none, then thank you, Ms. Brakeville.
00:08:03
We will open the public hearing.
00:08:06
Public hearing is open.
00:08:08
If anyone would like to step forward and address the Planning Commission on this particular item, please do so.
00:08:19
Seeing none, we'll close the public hearing.
00:08:23
Brakeville.
Linda Buckler
Director of Community Development
00:08:24
That's all I have.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:08:25
That's right.
00:08:26
That's all you have.
00:08:27
Very good.
00:08:28
We'll bring it back to the commissions for discussion.
00:08:30
Any discussion on this item?
00:08:36
Very well.
00:08:37
Mr. Percy, the Chair would entertain a motion on this.
SPEAKER_18
00:08:40
Mr. Chairman, I would move that we recommend this for approval to the Board of Supervisors for an addition.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:08:47
And a second?
00:08:48
Second.
00:08:49
Moved and seconded.
00:08:49
Any further discussion?
SPEAKER_15
00:08:52
Johnson, yes yes yes yes
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:09:04
Very well, that is approved.
00:09:06
Next is AFD for Yanceyville.
00:09:09
Ms. Brakeville.
Maggie Brakeville
Land Development and Agricultural Conservation Coordinator
00:09:10
Yes, sir.
00:09:10
The Yanceyville Ag Forest District landowners John Thomas and Paula Bernard.
00:09:15
It's one parcel equaling 45.419 acres.
00:09:19
The use is timber.
00:09:20
It is in the Mountain Road District and it was recommended by Ag Forest Committee for approval.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:09:26
Any questions for Ms. Brakeville at this time?
00:09:31
Very well, then we'll
00:09:35
I didn't ask you last time, Ms. Brakeville, I'll ask you this time, is the applicant here to speak for this?
SPEAKER_15
00:09:40
I don't believe so.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:09:42
Very well.
00:09:43
Would anyone like to speak to this public hearing?
00:09:48
Very good.
00:09:48
Seeing none, public hearing is closed.
00:09:51
Any comments from the commissioners?
00:09:57
Very well, then I'm going to turn the gavel over to the vice chair.
00:10:01
Mr. Vice Chairman, I'd like to make a motion to recommend to the Board of Supervisors approval of this addition to the Ancyville Ag and Farstel District.
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
00:10:10
Is there a second?
00:10:11
Second.
00:10:12
Very good.
00:10:13
Any discussion?
00:10:15
Hearing none, Ms. Johnson, please call the vote.
SPEAKER_15
00:10:20
Mr. Hicks?
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
00:10:21
Yes.
00:10:22
Mr. Painting?
00:10:22
Yes.
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
00:10:23
Mr. Disosway?
00:10:24
Yes.
00:10:25
Mr. Dickerson?
00:10:25
Yes.
00:10:26
Mr. Goodwin?
00:10:26
Yes.
SPEAKER_18
00:10:26
Mr. Kersey?
00:10:27
Yes.
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
00:10:28
Motion carries and I turn the gavel back over.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:10:31
Thank you.
00:10:33
Next up is Cuckoo Ag and Forestry District, Ms. Brakeville.
Maggie Brakeville
Land Development and Agricultural Conservation Coordinator
00:10:37
Yes sir, so the Cuckoo Ag and Forestry District landowners are Nicholas and Charlena Novogradik.
00:10:43
It's one parcel, 41.35 acres.
00:10:45
The uses are poultry and timber.
00:10:47
It's in the Jackson voting district and it was recommended by Ag and Forestry Committee.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:10:51
Any questions for Ms. Brakeville?
00:10:55
Very well, then we'll open public hearing.
00:10:57
Public hearing is open.
00:10:58
Ms. Brakeville is the applicant here to speak.
00:11:01
Very well.
00:11:02
Would anyone else like to speak on this public hearing?
00:11:07
Seeing none, then we'll close public hearing and bring it back to the Commission.
00:11:12
Any further comments?
00:11:17
Then, Mr. Painting, the Chair would entertain a motion on this Ag and Forestry District.
SPEAKER_14
00:11:23
Yes, sir.
00:11:24
I'd like to make a motion to recommend approval to the Board of Supervisors for addition to the Cucarab Cultural Forest District.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:11:31
We have a motion, do we have a second?
00:11:33
Moved and seconded.
00:11:34
Any further discussion?
00:11:37
Ms. Johnson?
00:11:38
Mr. Hicks?
00:11:39
Yes.
00:11:40
Mr. Hainting?
00:11:40
Yes.
00:11:41
Mr. Disosway?
00:11:42
Yes.
00:11:42
Mr. Dickerson?
00:11:43
Yes.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:11:44
Mr. Goodwin?
00:11:44
Yes.
SPEAKER_18
00:11:45
Mr. Kersey?
00:11:46
Yes.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:11:47
Very well, that's approved.
00:11:49
Next item is the Healing Springs Act in Forrestal District.
00:11:52
Ms. Brakeville?
Maggie Brakeville
Land Development and Agricultural Conservation Coordinator
00:11:53
Yes sir, so Healing Springs Ag Forestal District is landowner H.L.B.
00:11:58
West LLC.
00:11:59
It's two parcels equaling 8.194 acres.
00:12:04
The use is timber.
00:12:05
It is in the Mountain Road Voting District and it was recommended by Ag Forestal Committee.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:12:09
Any questions for Ms. Brakeville?
00:12:14
Very well, we'll open public hearing.
00:12:16
Public hearing is open.
00:12:17
Ms. Brakeville is the applicant here to speak.
SPEAKER_18
00:12:21
Very well.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:12:22
Would anyone else like to speak on this action?
00:12:27
Seeing none, we'll close the public hearing.
00:12:30
I'll bring you back to the Commission.
00:12:31
Any further discussion on this?
Todd Hicks
Member, Planning Commission
00:12:34
One comment.
00:12:34
This is the second month in a row we've had addition in this new AFD down here in our district.
00:12:40
It's something we're really proud of.
Christopher S. Coon
Deputy County Administrator
00:12:41
A lot of participation here.
Todd Hicks
Member, Planning Commission
00:12:44
And thank you, Ms. Brakeville, for all your work on that.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:12:48
Then Mr. Hicks would entertain a motion on this action.
Todd Hicks
Member, Planning Commission
00:12:51
I make a motion to approve this edition of the Healing Springs to the board.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:12:56
I have a recommendation to the board to approve.
00:12:59
Do we have a second?
00:13:00
Second.
00:13:03
Any further discussion?
00:13:06
Ms. Johnson?
00:13:08
Mr. Hicks?
00:13:09
Yes.
00:13:10
Mr. Painting?
00:13:10
Yes.
00:13:11
Mr. Disosway?
SPEAKER_15
00:13:12
Yes.
00:13:12
Mr. Dickerson?
00:13:13
Yes.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
00:13:14
Mr. Goodwin?
00:13:15
Yes.
SPEAKER_18
00:13:15
Mr. Perkins?
00:13:16
Yes.
00:13:18
Well, that is approved.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:13:19
Next up is Mountain Road Ag and Forestal District.
00:13:22
Ms. Brakeville.
Maggie Brakeville
Land Development and Agricultural Conservation Coordinator
00:13:23
Yes, sir.
00:13:23
So the Mountain Road Ag Forestal District, it's landowners Rodney and Diana Rigsby, Warbonnet LLC, and HLB West LLC.
00:13:31
It's five parcels equaling 181.104 acres.
00:13:35
The uses are pasture and timber.
00:13:37
It is in the Mountain Road Voting District and it was recommended by the Ag Forestal Committee.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:13:41
Any questions for Ms. Brakeville?
00:13:46
Hearing none, we'll open the public hearing on this.
00:13:49
Public hearing is open.
00:13:51
Ms. Brakeville, this applicant is not here.
00:13:54
Would anyone like to speak on this public hearing?
00:14:00
Very well.
00:14:01
We'll close the public hearing and bring it back to the Commission.
00:14:04
Any further comments?
00:14:08
And Mr. Hicks, the chair would entertain a motion on this.
Todd Hicks
Member, Planning Commission
00:14:12
Yes, make a motion that we approve to the board the addition of this AFD.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:14:18
We have a recommendation of approval to the board on this.
00:14:21
Do we have a second?
00:14:22
Second.
00:14:23
Moved and seconded.
00:14:25
Any further discussion?
00:14:27
Ms. Johnson.
SPEAKER_15
00:14:29
Mr. Haig.
00:14:30
Yes.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:14:31
Mr. Haig.
00:14:33
Yes.
00:14:34
Mr. Disosway.
SPEAKER_15
00:14:35
Yes.
00:14:36
Mr. Dickerson.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
00:14:36
Yes.
00:14:37
Mr. Goodman.
00:14:37
Yes.
SPEAKER_18
00:14:37
Mr. Kersey.
00:14:37
Yes.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:14:39
That is approved.
00:14:40
Next up is Taylors Creek Ag and Forestry District.
00:14:43
Ms. Brakeville?
Maggie Brakeville
Land Development and Agricultural Conservation Coordinator
00:14:44
Yes, sir.
00:14:44
So the Taylors Creek Ag and Forestry District is landowners Harper Mill Farm LLC.
00:14:49
It's two parcels equaling 23.68 acres.
00:14:52
The uses are timber and pasture.
00:14:54
It's in the Mountain Road and Jackson voting district and it was recommended by Ag and Forestry Committee.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:14:59
Any questions for Ms. Brakeville?
00:15:03
Very well.
00:15:04
We'll open the public hearing.
00:15:06
Public hearing is open.
00:15:08
And no.
00:15:08
So would anyone else like to speak on this particular public hearing?
00:15:16
Seeing none, public hearing is closed.
00:15:19
Bring it back to the Commission.
00:15:20
Any further discussion on this?
00:15:26
And the Chair would entertain a motion from either Commissioner Painting or Commissioner Hicks.
Todd Hicks
Member, Planning Commission
00:15:31
We'll vote.
00:15:31
Make a motion that we approve this Taylor's Creek addition to the board.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:15:37
Moved and seconded.
00:15:38
Any further discussion?
00:15:42
Ms. Johnson?
00:15:44
Mr. Hicks?
00:15:45
Yes.
00:15:46
Mr. Haines?
00:15:47
Yes.
00:15:48
Mr. Disosway?
00:15:48
Yes.
00:15:49
Mr. Dickerson?
00:15:50
Yes.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
00:15:51
Mr. Giglin?
00:15:51
Yes.
SPEAKER_17
00:15:53
Mr. Hersey?
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:15:53
Yes.
00:15:54
That is approved.
00:15:55
Next item is Green Springs Ag and Forestal District.
00:15:58
Ms. Brakeville?
Maggie Brakeville
Land Development and Agricultural Conservation Coordinator
00:15:59
Yes, sir.
00:16:00
So the Green Springs Ag.
00:16:01
Forest Districts are landowners Thomas and Linda Tomlin.
00:16:04
It's three parcels equaling 58.675 acres.
00:16:08
The uses are timber, pasture and livestock.
00:16:10
It's in the Patrick Henry Voting District and Ag.
00:16:12
Forest Committee recommended approval.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:16:15
Thank you, Ms. Brakeville.
00:16:16
Any questions for Ms. Brakeville?
00:16:27
Anyone else like to speak on this public hearing?
00:16:32
Seeing none, public hearing is closed.
00:16:35
We'll bring it back to the Commission.
00:16:36
Any further discussion?
00:16:41
Mr. Dickerson.
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
00:16:42
Mr. Chairman, I would recommend to the Board of Supervisors for approval of this addition to the Green Springs Agricultural and Forestry District.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:16:49
Do we have a motion?
00:16:50
Do we have a second?
SPEAKER_14
00:16:52
Second.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:16:53
Move to second.
00:16:54
Any further discussion?
00:16:59
Ms. Johnson, Mr. Hicks, yes, Mr. painting, yes, Mr. Disosway, yes, Mr. Dickerson, yes, Mr. Goodwin, yes, Mr. Kersey, yes.
00:17:10
Very well, that is approved.
00:17:12
Next up with the reordered agenda is a proposed withdrawal from the Elsville Ag and Forestal District.
00:17:19
Ms. Brakeville.
Maggie Brakeville
Land Development and Agricultural Conservation Coordinator
00:17:20
Yes, sir.
00:17:20
So my comments will address the addition and the removal, but I will have additional comments for the addition.
00:17:26
I just want to address both.
00:17:28
So the Ellisville removal, Sarah and Joseph Marshall, an M&M Services Inc. owner requested 18 acres of tax map parcel 2644 containing 97.43 acres in zone day one be removed from the existing Ellisville Ag Forsell district and the remaining 79.43 acres to stay in the district.
00:17:49
The property is located along and north of Route 628 Bibstore Road and south of Deepwood Road in the Mineral Voting District.
00:17:55
The 2040 Comprehensive Plan designates this area of the county as rural.
00:18:00
The following comments are to address concerns that were raised at the Ag Forrester Rural Preservation Committee on Thursday, November 5, 2026.
00:18:09
The applicant has stated that they had no knowledge of the land being in the AFD prior to purchasing the property.
00:18:15
Nevertheless, Virginia recognizes the legal doctrine of caveat impetur.
00:18:20
Let the buyer beware.
00:18:22
Tax Map Parcel 2644 was enrolled into the AFD program at the creation of the Ellisville Ag Forrester District on May 4, 1992 by M&M's Farm, Inc.
00:18:33
In 2022, Ms. Nancy Shellheimer submitted a renewal request affirmatively confirming continued participation in the district.
00:18:41
It is staff's understanding that the applicants purchased the property on September of 2025 from Ms. Shellheimer, with the recording being filed on September 30, 2025.
00:18:52
However, staff never received a request for a zoning determination or any FOIA request on the property from 2022 to present day.
00:18:59
Additionally, the parcel was identified on the County GIS as part of the Ellisville Ag Forestal District during that time.
00:19:07
Furthermore, the applicants confirmed that the parcel was in the AFD on their CUP submission on August 21, 2026.
00:19:14
It is staff's understanding that the request is being made for the purpose of applying for a conditional use permit for a campground.
00:19:23
While a campground may be appropriate in certain locations, its development on land currently within an AFD is inconsistent with the purpose of the district.
00:19:33
Removing land from the AFD to accommodate a commercial venture would displace land intended for agricultural and forest oil preservation.
00:19:41
This conflicts with Virginia State Code section 15.2-4301, which recognizes these lands as vital economic, environmental and open space resources, as well as the Louisa County 2040 Comprehensive Plan, which designates this area as rural and emphasizes preserving the county's agricultural heritage, open space and rural character.
00:20:05
It is also critical to note that the main goal of the county's comprehensive plan is to maintain its rural nature.
00:20:14
Furthermore, in the next public hearing, the applicants are requesting an addition of 107.03 acres, which consists of four parcels zoned A2 to the Ellisville District.
00:20:25
The simultaneous submission of a withdrawal request and an addition application does not eliminate the statutory requirement that each be evaluated independently under the applicable provisions of the Virginia Agricultural and Forestal District Act.
00:20:40
Virginia Code Sections 15.2-4314 and 15-2.4305 establish separate processes for the withdrawal and addition of land, respectively.
00:20:53
Moreover, the addition should not be considered to be a voluntary proffer.
00:20:59
Virginia Statutory Proffer Authority under code section 15.2-2297 applies to rezoning applications and does not extend to AFD modifications or conditional use permits.
00:21:12
Virginia case law also establishes that land conditions must bear a reasonable relationship to the impact of the proposed development and cannot be used to obtain unrelated concessions.
00:21:23
Accordingly, the addition of acreage to an AFD should not be treated as an offset or substitute for the statutory justification required to remove other acreage from the district.
00:21:37
Each request must stand on its own merits and satisfy the respective statutory requirements and comprehensive plan goals.
00:21:46
As a result, the applicant and their family's decision to add other acreage to the AFD is commendable.
00:21:53
However, the proposed withdrawal and conditional use permit should be evaluated individually and on its own merits and against the applicable statutory requirements and comprehensive plan goals.
00:22:05
The addition of land elsewhere does not eliminate the need to consider the impact of removing property from the district and converting it to a commercial use.
00:22:15
Additionally, during their presentation tonight, the applicant will identify instances of AFD withdrawal precedent set in James City County.
00:22:24
In those cases, the County Board of Supervisors approved separate removals for the AFD for the purpose of solar farms.
00:22:32
However, James City County has an established AFD withdrawal policy with specific criteria.
00:22:38
Louisa County does not.
00:22:40
Consequently, James City County cannot simply be treated as the standard that requires Louisa County to approve similar withdrawals.
00:22:48
Louisa must focus on the three objectives outlined in code section 15.2-4301, which are agricultural and forestal land used for production of food and other agricultural and forestal products,
00:23:03
Agricultural and Forestal Land is a natural and ecological resource, including open space, watershed protection, wildlife habitat, and aesthetic resources.
00:23:15
And finally, Agricultural and Forestal Lands is an important economic and environmental resource.
00:23:22
Furthermore, the county's comprehensive plan goals differ.
00:23:26
James City County has developed a specific policy framework for renewable energy, while the Louisa 2040 Comprehensive Plan repetitively emphasizes directing development into designated growth areas and preserving agricultural and forest lands elsewhere.
00:23:46
The purpose of the requested withdrawal is to facilitate a commercial use that is not agricultural or forest in nature.
00:23:54
Even if the campground occupies only a small portion of the 18-acre area, the applicant is asking the county to remove the entire 18 acres from the protections of the AFD.
00:24:04
The question is not simply whether the campground will physically interfere with farming on the remaining property.
00:24:09
It is whether converting the requested acreage to a non-agricultural commercial use is consistent with the purpose of ag forestal districts.
00:24:19
Furthermore, Louisa County has allowed for the withdrawal of a portion of AFD property before.
00:24:26
However, that case was substantially different than the case before you tonight.
00:24:31
In that case, William Coleman requested the removal of 10 acres from a 76 acre parcel for the purpose of dividing the property to allow his son to build a home.
00:24:41
During discussions on the application, it was noted that Mr. Coleman owned the majority of the land in the Goldmine Creek Ag Forestal District, that his son worked on the farm, and that the family planned to continue farming the subject property.
00:24:54
It was further discussed that the withdrawal should be evaluated individually and own its own merits.
00:24:59
It is well known that Louisa County recognizes the importance of keeping generations of Louisans rooted in our community and supports opportunity for families to divide their property to allow children and relatives to remain in the county while preserving the rural nature and agricultural character.
00:25:17
As you evaluate the current case, it is important to note that a campground for temporary workforce housing does not align with the facts of previous precedents set in Louisa County related to withdrawing land from an ag-forestal district.
00:25:32
During their meeting on November 5, the Agricultural, Forestal, and Rural Preservation Committee reviewed both applications separately.
00:25:40
Their recommendation was to deny the request for removal and to approve the addition.
00:25:45
That is all of my comments tonight.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:25:48
Thank you.
00:25:49
Are there any questions for Ms. Brakeville at this time?
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
00:25:54
Mr.
00:25:55
Chair.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:25:56
Mr. Goodwin.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
00:25:58
Ms. Brakeville, can you go over the
00:26:02
reasons that are allowed to be considered for withdrawing other than the one case that we have here where it was allowed.
00:26:11
What does the state code list as reasons why you may get out?
Maggie Brakeville
Land Development and Agricultural Conservation Coordinator
00:26:19
So state code list good and reasonable cause because we don't have a policy here as to what that would look like in Louisa.
00:26:26
We would rely on what's listed in state code is the intent.
00:26:30
of the code, which I'm happy to read the intent to you.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
00:26:34
Just in your own words.
Maggie Brakeville
Land Development and Agricultural Conservation Coordinator
00:26:35
Yes, sir.
00:26:36
So it is.
00:26:37
I'm sorry, I got my pages mixed up.
00:26:46
It is are the lands are agricultural and forest lands used for production of food or other agricultural and forest products?
00:26:55
And agricultural and forest lands as a natural and ecological resource, including open space, watershed protection, wildlife habitat, and aesthetic resources, and agricultural and forest lands as an important economic and environmental resource.
00:27:08
So because we don't have an existing policy, we would weigh the intent of state code to determine good and reasonable costs.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
00:27:17
Thank you, Ms. Veracruz.
SPEAKER_14
00:27:23
What was the last one you just said economic what?
Maggie Brakeville
Land Development and Agricultural Conservation Coordinator
00:27:29
It is economic and environmental resource.
SPEAKER_14
00:27:34
Thank you, ma'am.
Maggie Brakeville
Land Development and Agricultural Conservation Coordinator
00:27:35
Yes, sir.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:27:42
Very well, hearing no other questions, we will open the public hearing.
00:27:45
The public hearing is open.
00:27:47
I realize we have a lot of new folks here tonight, so I'm going to kind of go over the rules of how we do this.
00:27:53
The first speaker, according to our bylaws, is always the applicant who has ten minutes to address the Planning Commission about the application.
00:28:04
Let me, good point, let me just mention that Commissioner Quarles has joined us electronically.
00:28:13
So he is here represented by a telephone in his chair.
00:28:17
So anyhow, so with that in mind, Mr. and Ms. Marshall, the podium is yours now for 10 minutes.
SPEAKER_26
00:28:36
Good evening commissioners and staff and thank you for the lengthy introduction.
00:28:41
I'm Joseph Marshall I'm here with my wife Sarah Marshall and we both live in the mineral district.
00:28:47
We're here tonight to talk about three public hearings.
00:28:50
We understand that there's a lengthy agenda tonight and so we appreciate you guys consolidating that into one succession plan so we continue to go through it in succession.
00:29:00
I want to start by briefly telling you who we are.
00:29:02
We're both multi-generational Louisa residents.
00:29:06
Our families have been in the community and contributing to the community for over 120 years.
00:29:13
We both grew up here.
00:29:14
We've chosen to return here and call this place our home.
00:29:18
This is our home and we do our best every single day to continue to improve our community and contribute to our community.
00:29:23
We're both active within many organizations throughout the community and have been for many years and will continue to do so.
00:29:30
The land in question tonight has been in my family for over 60 years.
00:29:34
I actively farm the land.
00:29:36
I've been farming it personally for over 10 years, and I'll farm it for the next 10 and the next 10.
00:29:40
I actively hunt the land.
00:29:42
Our families enjoy the land recreationally.
00:29:45
We spend a lot of time there.
00:29:51
In 2022, approximately 50% of the Ellisville AFD was all-martial land.
00:29:58
Today, it's about 25%.
00:29:59
I think that's something to consider.
00:30:01
We're a large contributor to the AFD process, and we do believe in it.
00:30:05
We believe in preserving agricultural and rural communities.
00:30:09
We live on the portion of the land that we're asking to add to the AFD and we recently purchased the land that we're asking to withdraw from the AFD.
00:30:19
This land was purchased from a family member and had we not purchased it, it was going to be sold on the open market.
00:30:25
Very thankfully, we were able to come to an agreement with that family member and in conjunction with M&M Services to purchase the land and keep it within our family and continue to farm it.
SPEAKER_01
00:30:41
So right now we're requesting to withdraw just over 17 acres portion of a single 97 acre parcel from the Ellisville AFD.
00:30:51
In turn, we are also requesting to add 107 acres to the same AFD.
00:30:56
The graphics on this slide show generally kind of to
00:31:03
You'll be able to tell the map shows the full Ellisville AFD.
00:31:07
The larger map shows in white at the bottom, the approximately 17 to 18 acres, it's exactly 17.188 acres after survey that we would like to remove the red portion in that area is where the proposed use will actually be.
00:31:23
And at the top of that larger photo and outlined in white are the parcels that would be added.
00:31:33
Understanding that AFDs are in place to help protect agricultural lands, we do not take this request lightly.
00:31:40
The request for the partial parcel withdrawal before you will not negatively impact the current agricultural use of any of the properties in question nor any of the surrounding properties.
00:31:52
It will not have a negative impact on the overall district requirement of a 200 acre core
00:31:59
The addition of the AFD will have a positive impact on the overall district requirement and offset of the partial removal.
00:32:07
We respect that the question during the Ag Forestal Committee meeting was asked, why do we not simply put this proposed use on the property that we own that's not already an AFD?
00:32:19
And we thought long and hard about it.
00:32:21
It probably would make this a much easier time for all of us.
00:32:25
The reason we did not do that is because if we were, that would impact the agricultural use of the property.
00:32:32
Where we're looking at putting this proposed use is an area of the property that is not in ag use.
00:32:40
The rest of that property is, and all of the property we're looking to put in is either in ag use, wildlife habitat, or our home is on it.
00:32:52
As far as future requests go, because this question came up as well, that is why you have an application and multiple public hearings and recommendations in place to allow for each request to be considered individually on its unique merits.
00:33:09
As Maggie mentioned, Virginia Code states that land can be withdrawn for good and reasonable cause.
00:33:15
It does not state that the proposed commercial use disqualifies that request.
00:33:21
We consider our withdrawal and proposed use as good and reasonable.
00:33:26
It is intended to provide a public benefit that supports the county's chosen economic development pursuits, which through tax revenues should benefit the entire Louisa County community.
00:33:38
We also believe this request is reasonable as again, it will not negatively impact the existing agricultural use and would have minimal to no impact on the rural character of the area.
00:33:51
For further support, there is precedent for removing property early from an AFD for commercial use.
00:33:59
It is a different use, but the cases shown here show that you can remove in the state of Virginia property early from an AFD for commercial use.
00:34:13
I show both cases here.
00:34:15
because according to the case minutes from James City County, the use was considered for the public good and would benefit the community.
00:34:24
The proposed use was shielded from the road as ours would be.
00:34:27
The use was consistent for rural economic policies and the proposed use was a temporary way to use the rural land without developing into residential lots.
00:34:39
Regardless of how you feel about solar development,
00:34:42
Those are what the James City board members decided as their reason for pulling the property out.
00:34:49
Their words, not mine.
00:34:54
While we agree with staff that the addition of land elsewhere does not eliminate the need to consider the impacts of removing land for commercial use, the Virginia Agriculture and Forestal District Act declares of policies as brought up in the staff's report
00:35:10
In full, that it is the policy of the Commonwealth to conserve and protect and encourage the development and improvement of the Commonwealth's agricultural and forest lands for the production of food and agricultural products.
00:35:24
It is also the policy of the Commonwealth to conserve and protect agricultural and forest lands as valued natural and ecological resources
00:35:33
which provide essential open spaces for clean air shed, watershed protection, wildlife habitat, as well as for aesthetic purposes.
00:35:44
Finally, it also states it is the purpose of this chapter to provide a means for a mutual undertaking by landowners and localities to protect and enhance agricultural land as a viable segment of the Commonwealth's economy and as an economic and environmental resource of major importance.
00:36:03
The removal of 17 acres in the proposed use does not negatively impact the agricultural use of the land.
00:36:11
Both can be true.
00:36:14
You can have, in certain instances, commercial use and still contain the agricultural use of the land and the rural character.
00:36:24
Based on this information, we disagree with staff that the land removal and proposed use are in conflict with the Virginia Agriculture and Forestal Act.
00:36:34
In addition, though not directly pertinent to the distinct decision to recommend approval of the withdrawal in addition to the AFD, for the same reasons we disagree with staff that the withdrawal conflicts with the Louisa County 2040 Comprehensive Plan.
00:36:50
With that, we respectfully recommend or request your recommendation for approval to withdraw the 17.188 acres and the addition of 107.3 acres to the Ellisville AFD.
00:37:04
That concludes our presentation and we're happy to entertain any questions you may have.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:37:09
Thank you, Mr. and Ms. Marshall.
00:37:11
I'm going to hold questions from the commission at this time to move forward with the public hearing, but we will get back to you with questions as we have them.
00:37:19
Thank you.
00:37:19
Thank you.
00:37:21
So I have a number of cards for speakers who would like to speak to this.
00:37:26
I'm going to call them out.
00:37:28
But to begin with, to take an orderly process in this, the first speaker, however, is going to be Jim Riddell from the Ag and Farstool
00:37:38
Committee, and I understand you're representing the Ag and Forestal Committee tonight.
00:37:44
Yes, so you will have five minutes to speak, sir.
Jim Riddell
Chairman
00:37:49
Mr. Chairman, members of the Planning Commission, I appreciate the opportunity to be here on behalf of the Louisa Ag and Forestal and Rural Preservation Committee.
00:37:57
I'm Jim Riddell, the chairman, and as you know, we've been working on voluntary programs and incentivizing efforts to keep farms and farms and forests and forests in Louisa, especially over the last few years.
00:38:09
This A&F committee by state code is composed of citizens appointed by the board of supervisors, four who must have ag and forestry expertise for other citizens, the Commission of Revenue, and a board of supervisors member.
00:38:24
The Agriculture and Forestry District program here in Louisa is an effective and key tool provided by state code.
00:38:31
The purpose is to protect and encourage the development and improvement of the Commonwealth's ag and forest land for the future.
00:38:37
It's all about protecting our scarce resources, be it water or soils, the resources for the kids in the future.
00:38:45
It is the policy to conserve and protect farm and forest land.
00:38:48
It's valued natural and ecological resources, which provide open space for watershed protection, wildlife habitat, food and fiber protection and production.
00:38:58
Excuse me.
00:39:00
The ag districts in Louisa are a mutual undertaking by landowners, neighbors, if you will, and the county of Louisa to protect and enhance the area.
00:39:11
The districts are voluntary and they're proposed by the citizens and signed up by the landowners for up to 10 years by affidavit with witness signatures.
00:39:23
It's a compact with the neighbors to keep the land in ag and fossil use and the county validates it.
00:39:30
The committee reviewed the application for removal and after review voted unanimously not to recommend the removal of this land and parcel.
00:39:38
According to county records, the land was purchased again in 2025 and at the last renewal prior to that, the landowner renewed the plan and renewed the district along with the other neighbors in the district.
00:39:51
Louisa County citizens have told us all, all of us, by large margins, 90%, that they want to keep their farm and forest lands and that voluntary programs like the AF&D program work to accomplish these goals.
00:40:06
Again, this program is voluntary for folks to put their land in and work with their neighbors to keep the area of agriculture with the county certifying and validating.
00:40:15
If this is removed prior to the agreed upon renewal time, this will set a precedent for commercial land.
00:40:22
So anyone who will come before you will be able to say, well, I want to have a commercial purpose and I want to take my five acres, my 10 acres, my 20 acres out.
00:40:33
Again, folks came into this.
00:40:36
They voluntarily put it in.
00:40:38
They signed up.
00:40:39
They had witness.
00:40:40
This was put in for a period of time.
00:40:43
And that's the basis of the program is it goes for a term.
00:40:46
And as you know, the board is working on incentivizing using those districts to say that that's a real value for folks to keep that land in that period and looking to incentivize that.
00:40:58
So if this is pulled out, this damages and hurts the current ag district program tremendously.
00:41:04
Make no mistake about it.
00:41:06
Louisa County supports this ANFD program.
00:41:09
They're committed with landowners to preserve the role and agricultural integrity of the county.
00:41:16
And as you know, again, the county is seeking to further incentivize the ANF land in coming months.
00:41:22
So again, the committee, the ANF committee looked at this and looked at it for the future and the committee recommends denial of this request.
00:41:32
Thank you.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:41:33
Thank you, Mr. Riddell.
00:41:35
Next up is John Schick to be followed by Howard Mikey-Tuck.
00:41:41
And please, when you step forward, state your name and your voting district.
SPEAKER_16
00:41:48
I'm John Schick and I'm in the Middle District.
00:41:52
I own with my brother and operate our family farm, Gold Mine Creek Farm, which is in the Gold Mine Creek Ag and Forestry District.
00:42:01
And I thought I'd bring back to you a little institutional memory here on this whole process.
00:42:07
I sat around the kitchen table with my mom and my dad, and Jim Riddell, and Jim was the county agent that was starting this stuff off.
00:42:16
And we said, Dad said, what's in it for us?
00:42:19
I mean, you're going to restrict our ability
00:42:23
to you know maybe represent our family's interests and do different things with the land in the future if we sign this and he said exactly what he just said which is this is designed to protect rural farmland and forestal land in the county and to protect
00:42:40
the valuable water quality and soil quality in the county.
00:42:43
And what's in it for you is, first of all, the legislation that enabled this says that regardless of what the county and the general assembly may do in the future, you will always qualify for land use tax, which is, you know, that's a pretty good benefit.
00:42:59
But the other benefit was leverage.
00:43:02
You know, a single farmer doesn't have much leverage when it comes to zoning.
00:43:06
But if a group of farmers is able to get together and forest all producers and band together as a unit, then you have more leverage to be able to say, we want it to remain as it is for the future of our families and going forward for the county.
00:43:22
So that's why we signed it.
00:43:24
Now I'm a property rights guy.
00:43:26
You know, those of you who know me know I am a property rights guy.
00:43:29
I think you ought to be able to deal with your land pretty much what you want to do as long as it's not violating other people's rights.
00:43:35
This is a voluntary agreement that was entered into, though it's not the government telling somebody they have to do something or taking away property rights from somebody.
00:43:44
Folks signed up for these agreements with forethought and knowledge and saying for 10 years I'm willing to tie this down and abide by the
00:43:53
McRae, Michael McRae.
00:44:18
I'm concerned that if we start removing parcels early for commercial use that's inconsistent with farming and forestal use, that we're opening the door to, I mean, what's to stop me from taking my 120 acres and asking to have it removed, immediately doing my buy right seven family subdivision of the property and selling it to a developer?
00:44:42
And then that's what we're opening ourselves up to.
00:44:45
Or maybe somebody wants to put a laundromat out on the farm.
00:44:48
I don't know, whatever.
00:44:49
I'm opposed to it for those reasons, for what it does for these ag and forest districts on the whole.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:44:57
Thank you, Mr. Schuch.
00:44:58
Sure.
00:44:59
Next up is Howard Mikey Tuck to be followed by Laura Lee Harkrader.
SPEAKER_09
00:45:05
Good evening, Chairman, Board of Supervisors.
00:45:09
I am a neighbor of where this development is going.
00:45:12
and it's stated that it will not interfere with the agriculture use of that property.
00:45:16
You cannot get back.
00:45:18
to that area that they're highlighting without going through a field.
00:45:22
Right now, that's a soybean field.
00:45:24
So I don't know how you're going to just get the 18 acres for the little campsite without destroying farmland.
00:45:31
I think the other things that have been mentioned have been dead nuts on.
00:45:35
I think we're there to preserve our agriculture.
00:45:39
We took this land.
00:45:40
I bought this land 10 years ago.
00:45:42
I live next to them.
00:45:43
I had 60 acres.
00:45:45
Yes, I have legally and
00:45:47
Met the requirements and subdivided some of my land.
00:45:51
But that land stays in farm use.
00:45:53
Every one of the lots I sold remains in A2 zoning and is still eligible for farm use.
00:45:59
So I don't understand why this is not a hardship case that I can tell from the application.
00:46:05
There is no other reason except maybe to make a little money at the expense of the county and the neighbors.
00:46:13
I don't see any other good purpose for this land moving it from agriculture.
00:46:17
And I think the point of the royal area that we have, that's what brought people in to buy.
00:46:25
That's what brings people out.
00:46:27
I'm a perfect owner.
00:46:28
I sold three lots.
00:46:30
made great money on it, but all those lots were because all those people want to be in the country, they want to be on a farm, and they want to have the peace of a rural area.
00:46:40
We're going to jeopardize that by putting in a campsite or any other commercial development.
00:46:46
I know I still have time, but I'm going to pass it on to the next person.
00:46:49
It's a late evening and I appreciate you listening.
00:46:52
I thank you.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:46:53
Thank you, Mr. Mikey Tuck.
00:46:55
Next up is Laura Lee Harkrater to be followed by Jean Bowneck.
SPEAKER_12
00:47:05
Hi, good evening.
00:47:07
Let's see, Larlee Hartgrader, Mineral Voting District.
00:47:10
I do live on 498 Deep Woods Road.
00:47:14
I am the lot number six that adjoins the 18 acres.
00:47:20
I will look through my woods and very real possibility that I will see the 10 RVs.
00:47:26
But keeping this on the AFD right now,
00:47:29
I want to begin by expressing appreciation for this Ag Forestal District Program.
00:47:35
As you've heard, it started in 1992.
00:47:38
As you've heard, the Marshall property was one of the earliest, maybe the first properties entered into the program, and we thank them for that.
00:47:47
I think I'm also correct, as you've probably already heard, there's three reasons to take the property out.
00:47:53
When your tenure renewal arrives,
00:47:57
upon death of an owner or at the heirs request and good and reasonable cause.
00:48:03
Don't think there's good and reasonable cause here.
00:48:05
There is an economic cause for the marshals.
00:48:11
Understand that.
00:48:12
Everybody wants to make money.
00:48:18
You've already heard that the hardship case for Louisa County, there was an exception for a somewhat hardship case for Mr. Coleman's son to build a house there.
00:48:32
I oppose the 18 acres being removed from the Ag Forest District.
00:48:36
The precedent will be terrible.
00:48:38
Mr. Riddell has told you all about that.
00:48:40
I'm sure you all know that too.
00:48:43
as did the committee and Ms. Blaveman.
00:48:47
So allowing the removal from the AFD for a campground, and it is a campground, even if it's for temporary RV housing for whoever, we don't know who it will be.
00:49:00
But at any rate, it is a campground titled Gridline Camp, LLC.
00:49:06
It's a commercial enterprise.
00:49:08
in the middle of a farming community and up against a wooded subdivision.
00:49:17
Any kind of danger can happen there that will spread through those woods.
00:49:22
You'll hear more about that in the next hearing.
00:49:26
So, Ms. Marshall brought up
00:49:30
The fact that they have the other parcels that they are putting in.
00:49:34
Why couldn't they request and go through the county to put their RV camp over there?
00:49:42
I think she says the reason is because it would be detrimental to their farming.
00:49:47
Yet the 18 acres approximately they're taking out want to take out.
00:49:52
They're only using one acre.
00:49:54
Moore, 10 RVs.
00:49:57
So on the 107 acres, I'm certain they could use one acre somewhere there to place the 10 RVs and would not be detrimental to them as it will be detrimental to us and to the Ag Forestal District program.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:50:16
Ms. Harkerator, your time is up.
SPEAKER_12
00:50:18
I knew I would run out of time.
00:50:21
Did you?
00:50:21
Thank y'all.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:50:22
Thank you, Ms. Harkrater.
00:50:24
And next up, I apologize, Joanne Boney, I think it is.
00:50:28
Didn't have my glasses on.
SPEAKER_23
00:50:34
Hi, I'm Joanne Boney.
00:50:35
I live at 4001 Bibster Road, just down the road from there.
00:50:40
I know about RV parks.
00:50:43
I have had class Cs, fifth wheels, and I have currently a 40-foot Tiffin motor coach.
00:50:52
I know what is needed to even have a park on land.
00:51:00
And from what I can see from the diagram that they have,
00:51:05
You have no access to that unless you use the farmland ahead of it.
00:51:11
So that parcel that they're saying is the 18 acres will not incorporate the RV park.
00:51:22
They are going to have to use land coming in from Bib Store Road.
00:51:27
and the opening in that land is only 30 feet wide.
00:51:31
So having an RV, and I know from experience, you cannot get them on Bibster Road.
00:51:38
Matter of fact, our farmers who farm my property all the time have difficulty just getting into the properties because of the ditches.
00:51:49
And since you have these big RVs that can't make the turns to get into that farmland, you're going to have to have a VDOT study and turn lanes put in to get those rigs in there.
00:52:06
This is not a commercial endeavor that should be allowed.
00:52:12
This is farmland.
00:52:14
We all wanted farmland when we bought our property.
00:52:19
We don't want people coming in our property that we don't know.
00:52:24
And this is all a money-making deal.
00:52:28
It has nothing to do with
00:52:31
Smith.
00:52:31
They are living in this area for all these years because they bought the property from a relative, and apparently the relative couldn't do what they wanted to do, so they bought it from them, and now they want to make a money-making deal.
00:52:48
They are not living on this property.
00:52:50
They have no way of controlling what goes on on this property.
00:52:55
These RV parks have to be
00:53:01
Saut out.
00:53:01
We have police that will be needed.
00:53:04
We'll have EMS.
00:53:09
We have all kinds of surfaces that are going to be needed for this commercial property and to take it out of agricultural use.
00:53:18
And I have not seen them do anything with this property.
00:53:22
I have been on my property for 30 years.
00:53:24
They have not done one thing with this property except
00:53:29
Booning,
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:53:50
Now those are all of the cards I have.
00:53:53
If anyone else would like to speak to this hearing, please step forward to the microphone and speak.
00:54:07
And again, state your name and your voting district.
SPEAKER_21
00:54:09
Hi, my name is Susan Menton.
00:54:11
I'm in the mineral voting district.
00:54:14
I don't have anything lengthy prepared.
00:54:17
I've been a resident of Louisa County for 25 years now and I am in agreement with what the marshals would like to do.
00:54:24
I live in the Lake Anna area.
00:54:27
I don't know all the history or all the codes that everybody is speaking to, but I can say this would be a benefit to our community.
00:54:38
I think it would be a benefit to the county as a whole and
00:54:44
Those are the things without being able to cite code and everything else.
00:54:52
I've seen developments go up where there was questions of how it came about.
00:54:59
So I'm just standing here saying that I feel like we need to do right.
00:55:06
And in this case, I feel what they are proposing is the right thing to do.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:55:13
Thank you.
00:55:14
Would anyone else like to speak?
00:55:20
There's plenty of time.
00:55:22
We'll get to everyone.
00:55:23
Okay.
00:55:23
I won't take long.
00:55:24
I won't take long.
SPEAKER_05
00:55:24
My name is Dwayne Lloyd.
00:55:26
I live at 126 Panamint Trail, Louisa, Virginia, 23093.
00:55:30
So I don't butt up to the property, but I'm close to it.
00:55:35
I hear a lot about rules to character of the county.
00:55:39
What's more rules than a campground?
00:55:42
I mean, they have them in national parks, right?
00:55:47
We've got a lot of people coming into the county to do outages, work on all the data centers that everybody wants and all that kind of thing or doesn't want.
00:55:55
They have to have somewhere to be.
00:55:56
There's not a lot of motels, hotels, those kind of accommodations in the county, anywhere close to the area.
00:56:04
So these people, I know a lot of people that work with Dominion that go to outages at other places and they do the same thing in Surrey and some of those kind of places.
00:56:18
I guess I'd like to speak in favor of it.
00:56:21
Yes, it's removing a little bit of land from a lot of land that's been in that district for a long time.
00:56:29
Things change.
00:56:31
Sometimes we need to move on.
00:56:32
I'd much rather see something like this than 20, 30 houses built in there, which everybody that's in here arguing about it would be arguing about that as well.
00:56:42
As far as the traffic, I think that's kind of a red herring.
00:56:47
I live, we have to use Bibstool Road in and out every day to get in and out on our daily ventures, and I'd be interested to see if there was a study on how many people that use Bibstool Road actually live on Bibstool Road or reside on Bibstool Road.
00:57:06
I think you'd find it's a pretty small percentage, so having another
00:57:11
W. Smith,
00:57:24
grew up here.
00:57:25
A lot of people here know me.
00:57:27
And a lot of the people that are speaking out against this are people that have moved here, away from something else.
00:57:35
And that's fine.
00:57:37
We invite that.
00:57:38
But the county still needs to be able to progress in their needs.
00:57:44
And I think this is an appropriate use of the land.
00:57:46
And it's something that you could consider in a favorable aspect.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:57:51
Thank you.
00:57:52
Thank you.
00:57:54
Who else would like to speak?
SPEAKER_10
00:58:01
I want to thank y'all for giving me the opportunity to speak.
SPEAKER_11
00:58:03
Bob Taylor, I'm an owner of a property on Bibstar Road.
00:58:06
I'm admirably opposed to this proposal.
00:58:12
The road, I know that most of y'all probably traveled on Bibstar Road before.
00:58:16
That's a very narrow road, curvy, windy.
00:58:19
And to be pulling campers on that road, it's going to be a very dangerous situation.
00:58:24
I just do not see it as a good fit for our community.
00:58:28
I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
00:58:31
Thank you.
00:58:34
Would anyone else like to speak?
SPEAKER_10
00:58:39
My name is David Martin.
00:58:44
I reside in the mineral district.
00:58:48
And I have the old Daniel farm.
00:58:53
It goes by the name of Lillian Lee Castle.
00:58:57
And I've known Alan all my life.
00:59:00
I mean, he and I started in the first grade together.
00:59:03
And the Marshalls indeed are part of the intricate weaving of Louisa County, as well as my family.
00:59:13
My grandmother's family has been here 250 years.
00:59:16
My grandfather's was, I would say, approximately 150 years.
00:59:21
So you could say that Louisa runs through my blood.
00:59:26
and I played on Blip Straw Road when I was a kid.
00:59:31
It wasn't the family farm then, but we have since placed our family farm off of Route 33.
00:59:39
It's on Martin Road in the program that Jim Riddell represents.
00:59:45
And currently I have not decided whether or not to place my particular farm in there.
00:59:52
However, I will say that I do indeed enjoy the term, I believe it's a legal term, quiet enjoyment at this particular location that I'm in now, my farm.
01:00:09
And as far as for trying to house the workers that come in for the data center, I don't know if y'all were part of the North Adam construction, but there didn't seem to be a problem then when we had 4,000 workers coming in on a daily basis to actually construct units one and two down at North Adam.
01:00:33
It was quite a traffic jam, I can tell you that, getting out of there.
01:00:38
That was my first job just out of college.
01:00:41
But I'm not gonna understand Joe wanting to develop his land and find some way, some resources to make it pay for itself.
01:00:51
I think that's a noble cause.
01:00:52
I think we all are interested in that, making the land work for us.
01:00:57
But I don't think this is a particular venture that is conducive to
01:01:02
The actual harmony that we enjoy on Bibstore Road as a rural area of the county.
01:01:12
And I know I take a lot of pride in my farm.
01:01:15
and I do whatever I can in order to improve it so that it's reflecting well on the county.
01:01:23
And I'm afraid that if you allow for this program to go through, that it's going to be detrimental to the actual quiet enjoyment that the locales on Bibstor Road enjoy now.
01:01:36
and it probably is going to eventually have an adverse effect on the value there because what you're doing is that this is the first step.
01:01:48
What happens if later on you have another program to come in?
01:01:51
Well, let's expand this.
01:01:53
We already have a foothold.
01:01:55
So in essence, I'm afraid that you're opening Pandora's box.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:01:57
Your time is up, sir.
01:01:59
Thank you very much.
01:02:00
Thank you.
01:02:02
Would anyone else like to speak?
SPEAKER_04
01:02:08
Very well.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:02:09
Come forward, please.
SPEAKER_22
01:02:17
I'm Jennifer Davis from the Louisa District, born and raised in Louisa.
01:02:20
So I want to dispute that I've lived here because I moved here.
01:02:25
I've been on bib store for almost 35 years.
01:02:28
I'd like to keep as much as we can a rural area.
01:02:32
And I don't think this would be a good thing.
01:02:34
I know the marshals.
01:02:36
I have no problem, but I just don't think this area is an appropriate thing to have in this ag district.
01:02:43
So I would say you should be opposed to it.
01:02:46
Thank you.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:02:47
Thank you.
01:02:49
Would anyone else like to speak?
01:02:54
I'm just asking because according to our bylaws, the final speaker is the applicant who has five minutes to address anything they may have heard.
01:03:03
So once I call for them, there won't be another opportunity.
01:03:06
So if anyone else would like to speak, now's the time.
SPEAKER_04
01:03:16
I'm Mitchell Brew.
01:03:18
I live in the Mineral District.
01:03:20
I just purchased 70 acres on Bib Store Road directly across the street.
01:03:26
I'm a military veteran, 30 years in the Army.
01:03:29
My wife also did 26 years in the Army.
01:03:32
This was part of my retirement, buy a farm, kind of relax in the country, and do farm stuff.
01:03:38
I am a little bit concerned about a campground which is
01:03:42
Sounds like it's a little bit more than a campground.
01:03:44
It's like an RV park for workers.
01:03:46
I'm a little concerned of having that directly across the street from my property as I develop it out and kind of do farm stuff.
01:03:53
And my enjoyment, I think, as the other gentleman mentioned.
01:03:57
But I moved here in March.
01:03:58
I'm not from here.
01:04:00
Lived all over the world as a military brat and stuff.
01:04:04
But I chose to live here.
01:04:06
I chose my 70 acres.
01:04:07
I chose Louisa.
01:04:08
And I chose agriculture for my lifestyle.
01:04:11
That's it.
01:04:12
Thank you.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:04:16
Would anyone else like to speak?
01:04:21
All right, this is your last opportunity.
01:04:25
Very well, then we'll hear from the applicant.
01:04:27
We will have five minutes to address anything they've heard as we close out the public hearing.
SPEAKER_26
01:04:34
Thank you.
01:04:34
I'd just like to have a couple points of clarification.
01:04:38
The field will remain an active farm.
01:04:40
It is currently in a cover crop mix.
01:04:42
If you drive by the field today, that's in question.
01:04:44
It is full of beautiful sunflowers.
01:04:45
I don't know how they bloomed in November, but they have bloomed in November.
01:04:49
I'd also like to say that I have been actively farming the land for 10 years, so we have been actively utilizing the land and maintaining it for farming and agricultural purposes.
01:04:57
Just a couple points of clarification for a few people who spoke previously.
SPEAKER_01
01:05:05
There's been a lot of comments made this evening about the use and safety or other concerns about the proposed use in question.
01:05:13
I do want to remind that right now you are deciding just on if parts of a parcel should be removed from the AFD.
01:05:21
And then I believe second if additional parcels should be included in the AFD.
01:05:27
As my husband said, we do farm that land.
01:05:29
I do want to make a few more points of clarification from what's been said.
01:05:33
One thing that has been said is that the proposed use would not be able to happen without actively impacting the existing farmland.
01:05:43
That is not true.
01:05:45
There is an active farm use that can fit an RV, a fire truck down that road.
01:05:51
That is how we get our tractors in.
01:05:53
That is how we get our combines in to farm that land.
01:05:56
So the road is already there.
01:05:59
We have spoken with professional firefighters.
01:06:01
It can maintain and hold the equipment from both RVs and fire and EMS.
01:06:07
So it will not impact the existing agricultural use of that property.
01:06:13
A lot of things were said earlier by public commenters about that this would set precedent, that by allowing for removal for commercial use, people are gonna line up.
01:06:25
I wanna reiterate that is why this process is in place, so that you can look at each of those requests, if they may come, and decide if each one fits the use or not.
01:06:38
Again, we argue that this would not negatively impact the ag use.
01:06:45
Again, just because property is taken out of Ag Forestal District does not mean that it is not still preserving the agricultural or rural character of the land.
01:06:56
There is a lot of land by a lot of farmers in this county that are not in Ag and Forestal districts for various reasons.
01:07:05
I would argue that that land is still in agricultural use as it is farmed and it still maintains the rural character.
01:07:12
The majority of the agricultural land in Louisa is not in ag forest districts and we are still a rural community.
01:07:19
So again, both things can be true.
01:07:22
There are instances where commercial use can be a complement to agricultural lands and protect the rural character.
01:07:31
The proposed use will not be seen from Bibstore Road.
01:07:34
It will not include an additional entrance to the site and it will have a natural vegetative buffer which you'll see more of in our next presentation.
01:07:44
Again, we respectfully request that you approve the withdrawal as it does not impact the agricultural use of the property.
01:07:51
And again, we believe that both things can be true, that you can be outside of an ag forest district, still preserve the agricultural use of the land as we choose to do, and potentially have commercial use that supports the entire Louisa County community all at the same time.
01:08:09
Thank you.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:08:14
We'll bring this back to the commissioners for discussion.
01:08:17
Do we have any discussion on this application?
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:08:33
Mr. Chairman.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:08:34
Mr. Goodwin.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:08:37
This is the first test.
01:08:41
And it's hard work.
01:08:45
Like a lot of you, I've known the Marshals for most of my life.
01:08:50
A little bit later than grade school, Mr. Martin.
01:08:57
But I've known Alan, I've known all of the kids.
01:09:00
I've worked with Sarah in the Senate.
01:09:04
It's not about the people.
01:09:12
This is the issue of 18 acres.
01:09:16
It's just 18 acres.
01:09:21
To me it's not about the 18 acres.
01:09:27
Because next time it'll be 100.
01:09:28
Or it'll be 50.
01:09:32
And we'll be sitting here saying, where's the break point that we just won't accept anymore?
01:09:41
And finally, what really worries me, I said this at the September meeting, you heard me say that the bucket leaks from the bottom.
01:09:55
It's not the responsible people doing things responsibly that we have to be concerned about, it's the people who are gonna line up and take advantage of it.
01:10:05
The bucket leaks from the bottom.
01:10:08
And that's what we have to pay attention to.
01:10:12
and with respect to this one, it's a CUP.
01:10:16
which means it conveys with the land.
01:10:20
And one day, not a single one of you marshals may be involved and there's a CUP.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:10:28
Excuse me.
01:10:28
This is not a CUP, this is an Hagen Forest.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:10:31
I'm sorry, I've gotten ahead of myself.
01:10:33
Yes.
01:10:34
But they're tied together.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:10:36
But I understand, but you must.
01:10:38
Okay.
01:10:39
You must understand what we're doing right now.
01:10:41
Understand.
01:10:41
We're doing and that is, yeah, so.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:10:44
I apologize.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:10:53
Well there being no further discussion I'm going to hand the gavel over to Commissioner Dickerson and for a motion and I'd like to say I'm going to agree with
01:11:13
Well a few things tonight.
01:11:19
It's not about the people.
01:11:20
I'm a come here.
01:11:23
I'll admit it freely.
01:11:25
I came here 37 years ago, but I've known the Marshals the whole time.
01:11:31
Went to church with Howard, known Alan, I've known Joe from Houston.
01:11:37
very small and worked with Sarah, so I know them all.
01:11:41
I know the intent of what all of this is leading to.
01:11:46
I know the need because I worked in nuclear power my whole career.
01:11:50
I understand all of the issues at hand.
01:11:54
The problem I have with the application, this AFD application in front of us is
01:12:03
I am looking for the good and reasonable cause that aligns with the comprehensive plan and the purposes of ag and farcel districts that we've been working so hard for.
01:12:22
And I understand there are complementary uses of things, however,
01:12:29
I don't think that particular argument plays directly into whether we remove things or not remove things from AFDs.
01:12:38
I'm looking strictly at the AFD language and what it means and we've had this discussion so I think this is unfortunate that it's come about the way it has.
01:12:54
I do think that, but I personally see no other thing to do here than to recommend denial of this removal from the AFD to the Board of Supervisors, so that's my motion.
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
01:13:12
You've heard the motion, do we have a second?
01:13:14
Second.
01:13:16
Any discussion?
01:13:19
Hearing no discussion, Ms. Johnson, roll call vote please.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:13:23
Wait, clarify what whether yes or no means since this is a recommended for denial.
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
01:13:31
Yes means we're recommending denial to the Board of Supervisors.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:13:35
Very good, thank you.
SPEAKER_15
01:13:39
Mr. Hicks?
01:13:40
Yes.
01:13:41
Mr. Painting?
01:13:41
Yes.
01:13:42
Mr. Disosway?
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:13:43
Yes.
SPEAKER_15
01:13:44
Mr. Dickerson?
01:13:44
Yes.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:13:47
Yes.
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
01:13:50
Mr. Quarles.
01:13:54
Yes.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:13:56
Motion passes.
01:14:01
Alright then we'll move on to the next item also Ellisville-Agon Forest District proposed addition Ms. Brakeville.
Maggie Brakeville
Land Development and Agricultural Conservation Coordinator
01:14:10
Yes sir, so on the addition of landowners are Sarah and Joseph Marshall and Allen and Joanne Marshall.
01:14:15
It is four parcels equaling 107.03 acres.
01:14:18
The uses are timber, Christmas tree productions, crops, and vegetables.
01:14:23
It's in the Louisa and Mineral voting districts and it was recommended by Ag Forestal Committee.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:14:29
Any questions for Ms. Brakeville?
Todd Hicks
Member, Planning Commission
01:14:35
Was the family given the option to
01:14:37
Look at this differently.
01:14:39
Should the first part have been a recommendation for denial?
Maggie Brakeville
Land Development and Agricultural Conservation Coordinator
01:14:42
It's up to them to withdraw it if they don't want to move it forward.
Todd Hicks
Member, Planning Commission
01:14:46
But they reserve that right throughout this process?
Maggie Brakeville
Land Development and Agricultural Conservation Coordinator
01:14:48
Yes.
Todd Hicks
Member, Planning Commission
01:14:50
Awesome.
01:14:50
Just wanted to clarify.
Maggie Brakeville
Land Development and Agricultural Conservation Coordinator
01:14:51
That's my understanding.
01:14:52
Is that correct, Patricia?
01:14:54
Yes.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:14:55
Other questions?
01:14:57
Very good.
01:14:58
We'll move to public hearing.
01:15:00
Public hearing is open.
01:15:02
Again, the applicant is the first speaker.
01:15:04
You'll have 10 minutes to address the commission.
SPEAKER_01
01:15:09
Thank you, Mr.
01:15:10
Chair, Commissioner, staff, we're not going to take the full 10 minutes because we've done our full presentation.
01:15:15
But to your comment, Mr. Hicks, we do understand that we can make the request to withdraw.
01:15:24
We will reserve that choice and that option for the board who makes that actual decision versus a recommendation.
01:15:31
But I wanted to stand here and let you know we are here to answer any questions you all may have.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:15:36
And we'll go through the public hearing first and then come back to that.
01:15:39
Thank you.
01:15:39
Thank you.
01:15:41
Would anyone like to speak to this public hearing?
01:15:51
Very well.
01:15:51
Then the final speaker, as always, is the applicant who has five minutes to address anything they may have heard.
01:15:58
I'm not sure there's anything you've heard that you want to address at this point, but give you the option for your final five minutes.
01:16:08
Very good.
01:16:09
Then in that case, public hearing is closed and bring it back to the Commission for comment.
01:16:19
No comments?
01:16:20
I'll turn the gavel over to Commissioner Dickerson and I'd like to make a motion to recommend approval of this AFD to the Board of Supervisors.
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
01:16:31
Is there a second?
01:16:32
Second.
01:16:34
Any discussion?
01:16:37
Hearing none, Ms. Johnson roll call vote please.
SPEAKER_15
01:16:40
Mr. Hicks?
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
01:16:41
Yes.
SPEAKER_15
01:16:42
Mr. painting?
01:16:43
Yes.
01:16:44
Mr. Disosway?
SPEAKER_15
01:16:45
Yes.
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
01:16:46
Mr. Dickerson?
01:16:46
Yes.
SPEAKER_15
01:16:50
Yes, yes
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
01:16:55
Motion passes.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:16:57
Thank you.
01:16:58
Next up is the CUP for gridline camp 2026-04.
01:17:02
However, I have a question Mr. Coon or Ms. Buckler.
01:17:10
We now have an application that because of the previous AFD change we
01:17:21
In my mind we have an application that can't be heard tonight because of that.
01:17:27
Is that the case?
Christopher S. Coon
Deputy County Administrator
01:17:29
If you all choose to you could hear it but you're also correct that if the board chooses to deny the removal of the AFD parcel then the CUP cannot go forward so if you all choose to you could table this item until the board makes their decision.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:17:47
then it would be my desire to table the item rather than spend the time on this without knowing where we're going on this.
01:17:56
So is that a motion that's required?
SPEAKER_04
01:18:00
Very well.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:18:03
Then I would move to table this item until after the board has determined what's going to become of the removal from the Ellisville AFD.
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
01:18:13
Second.
SPEAKER_18
01:18:14
We have a motion and a second.
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
01:18:16
Is there any discussion?
01:18:19
Hearing no discussion, Ms. Johnson, a roll call vote please.
SPEAKER_15
01:18:23
Mr. Hicks?
01:18:24
Yes.
01:18:25
Mr.
01:18:25
Paintings?
01:18:25
Yes.
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
01:18:27
Mr. Disosway?
SPEAKER_15
01:18:27
Yes.
01:18:28
Mr. Dickerson?
01:18:29
Yes.
01:18:30
Mr. Quarles?
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:18:31
Yes.
SPEAKER_15
01:18:33
Mr. Goodwin?
01:18:33
Yes.
01:18:34
Mr. Kersey?
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
01:18:35
Yes.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:18:37
Motion carries.
01:18:40
Very well, thank you.
01:18:41
Next up is CUP 2026-05 Towers LLC.
01:18:46
Mr. Cole.
SPEAKER_18
01:19:02
and Salim Hassan.
SPEAKER_17
01:19:42
Good evening members of the Planning Commission.
01:19:44
My name is Ian Cole and I'm an Associate Planner with Louisa County Community Development.
01:19:49
The next two items up for your consideration are for the same request.
01:19:53
First is a 15.2-2232 Conformative Review with Comprehensive Plan.
01:19:59
The second item is a conditional use permit 2026-05 for a 195 foot wireless communication facility with a 4 foot lightning rod for a total height of 199 feet.
01:20:13
The request is within the A2 zoning district in accordance with section 86-154.
01:20:21
The parcel in question is located at the intersection of 409 Poindexter Road, Route 613, and Interstate 64.
01:20:29
The proposed tower is accessed via Poindexter Road and further identified as Tax Map Parcel 52-53 in the Patrick Henry Election District.
01:20:41
The 1969 zoning map shows that the parcel originally had an agricultural zoning classification.
01:20:48
Within the 2040 future land use map, the subject parcel has still retained its original zoning district.
01:20:56
The Board of Supervisors adopted a public facilities plan in 2024 as an amendment to the 2040 comprehensive plan.
01:21:03
Implementation of the adopted public facility plan allows the county the ability to identify the impacts of a proposed development and offer the means to consider proposed mitigations.
01:21:14
Staff facilities analysis for the CUP request is provided on page 167 of the agenda packet.
01:21:22
Code Section 15.2-2232 is performance with the Comprehensive Plan and will be voted on by the Planning Commission.
01:21:32
Chapter 3 of the 2040 Comprehensive Plan states that the plan protects Louisa's rural character and provides for efficient delivery of public services.
01:21:41
The proposed facility would be located on county-owned land that currently has an existing fire station on site.
01:21:47
Since the project has the potential to enhance communication services for Louisa County's first responders and citizens, the proposed use appears to be consistent with the goals and objectives of the 2040 plan.
01:22:00
The 2007 Telecommunications Master Plan projected theoretical coverage for the 2020 map shown on the current slide identifies the near area as needing future projected coverage.
01:22:12
However, since the creation of this map, technology and the demand for wireless services has increased.
01:22:18
Therefore, staff finds the proposed wireless tower at this location complies with the Master Plan as it may provide improved wireless coverage for the county and specifically the Zion Crossroads growth area.
01:22:30
A neighborhood meeting was held in the Louisa County Public Meeting Room on October 14, 2026 at 4 p.m., at which no members of the public showed up for this application.
01:22:41
Staff recommends 19 conditions for consideration if this conditional use permit is recommended for approval.
01:22:47
These conditions can be found on packet pages 169 to 171.
01:22:52
This concludes staff's report.
01:22:54
Staff is available to answer any questions.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:22:57
Are there any questions for Mr. Cole at this time?
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:23:04
Mr. Chairman, a comment?
01:23:05
This may be the first time, I just have never noticed it before, but on page 177 of the packet
01:23:15
I noticed the Please Be Aware notice at the bottom of the page.
01:23:20
I don't know when you all started using that, but that's a great initiative on you all's part, and I appreciate it.
01:23:27
Thank you, sir.
01:23:27
Because a lot of activity is going on in that area.
01:23:30
So good move.
01:23:32
Thank you.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:23:36
Very good.
01:23:37
Hearing no questions at this time, we'll move on to public hearing.
01:23:41
So public hearing is open.
01:23:43
Is the applicant here?
01:23:47
Thank you, Mr.
Lori Schweller
Attorney
01:23:51
Chair.
01:23:52
Good evening and good evening planning commissioners.
01:23:55
My name is Lori Schweller.
01:23:56
I'm an attorney with Williams Mullen representing the applicant.
01:24:00
which is the Towers LLC.
01:24:02
The Towers LLC is a joint venture of Vertical Bridge which is a tower builder and manager and Verizon Wireless.
01:24:12
This particular facility is intended for the use of Verizon Wireless as what we call the anchor tenant.
01:24:19
It would be at the top space once the tower is constructed.
01:24:25
The property owner is Louisa County.
01:24:27
It is the site of a volunteer fire station.
01:24:31
The zoning is A2 Agriculture and conditional use permit is required for a freestanding wireless communications facility in the A2 district if it's over 100 feet.
01:24:42
And we are proposing a 199 foot self-support or lattice tower.
01:24:48
This is the location here.
01:24:50
As you can see, the proposed site would be between the volunteer fire station and the interstate in a wooded area.
01:24:59
This is the tax map here.
01:25:00
You can see the small parcel.
01:25:02
It's about two and a half acres.
01:25:05
This facility is intended to fill an area with low to marginal coverage.
01:25:10
It would serve
01:25:12
Not only the interstate, but 250 Poindexter Road surrounding businesses, church, and residences.
01:25:20
It would support up to four wireless providers.
01:25:24
This map shows you the location of the proposed site where the yellow arrow is in relation to two existing Verizon wireless facilities.
01:25:33
The one to the west is about 1.6 miles away, just west of Zion's Crossroads, and the one to the east is a little over two and a half miles.
01:25:45
And what this map shows you is
01:25:48
That when you have an area that's very densely populated and growing like Zion's Crossroads is you need sites closer together.
01:26:00
And this site is not only intended to provide coverage, but to offload the heavy traffic on existing sites.
01:26:08
So it's an infill site as well as a coverage site.
01:26:12
This map shows you the access from Poindexter Road back to the lease area by a 50 foot wide ingress and egress easement.
01:26:22
Underground fiber conduit would provide backhaul from the tower.
01:26:27
and here you see the overall site plan.
01:26:31
The site would exceed all required setbacks.
01:26:34
The tower would be designed to, in the event that it fell, it has breakpoint technology so that only the top 60 feet would fall.
01:26:45
So the circle around the tower is showing you the 60 feet radius around the tower.
01:26:54
The leased area by the Towers LLC is 75 feet by 75 feet.
01:26:59
Within that would be a 60 by 60 foot fenced compound and Leland Cypresses would be planted along the front of the compound to screen the ground equipment from the fire station.
01:27:13
And this is an elevation showing the tower itself and again it would hold up to four wireless providers.
01:27:21
It would be a neutral matte galvanized steel.
01:27:25
A balloon test was conducted to show visual impact from the facility.
01:27:30
The map on the right side shows you the photograph locations.
01:27:34
All of the ones in red are locations where photographs were taken, but the balloon, which was raised to 199, could not be seen.
01:27:43
So this tower, though it will serve a large area, is only visible right in close proximity to this tower where those green dots are shown on the map.
01:27:56
So you can see here, this is the existing view right at the entrance to the fire station, and this is a photo simulation where you'd see the 199 foot lattice tower.
01:28:08
We would like to suggest that this application is compliant with your zoning ordinance in all respects.
01:28:15
I won't go through all of these requirements, but we believe our application
01:28:19
meets all of those requirements and also as Mr.
01:28:23
Call explained it's in compliance with your comprehensive plan.
01:28:28
It will provide communication services to a growth area and it is consistent with your master plan and it will provide services for fire and rescue, economic development, folks who want to work from home or do some schooling from home.
01:28:46
So it's for the convenience of the citizens as well.
01:28:49
And that's our presentation.
01:28:51
I'm happy to take any questions you might have.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:28:55
Let's move on with a public hearing and we'll get back with questions we may have.
01:28:59
Thank you.
01:28:59
Yes, sir.
Lori Schweller
Attorney
01:28:59
Thank you very much.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:29:02
Would anyone like to speak to this application?
01:29:09
Very well.
01:29:11
And Ms. Schweller, you have five minutes to end this, but I'm not sure you have anything further to say.
01:29:15
Very well.
01:29:18
The public hearing is closed.
01:29:21
And we'll bring it back to the commission for discussion.
01:29:23
Is there any discussion on this item?
01:29:35
Hearing no discussion, Mr. Quarles, this is in your district.
01:29:43
Are you able to hear us to make a motion on this?
SPEAKER_03
01:29:51
I believe so, Chairman.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:29:52
Very well.
01:29:53
Recognize there are two motions here.
01:29:55
One motion that whether or not we are in conformance with the comprehensive plan and the other is whether or not to recommend approval to the board.
SPEAKER_03
01:30:09
Well, I'd like to make the motion to determine whether we are within the compliance of the comprehensive plan and we'll start there.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:30:22
Very well, we have a motion to recommend to the board that this is in compliance with the 2040 comprehensive plan.
01:30:30
Do we have a second?
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:30:31
Second.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:30:33
Any further discussion?
SPEAKER_16
01:30:36
Ms. Johnson?
SPEAKER_15
01:30:38
Mr. Hicks?
01:30:38
Yes.
01:30:39
Mr. Painting?
SPEAKER_14
01:30:40
Yes.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:30:41
Mr. Disosway?
01:30:41
Yes.
01:30:43
Mr. Dickerson?
01:30:43
Yes.
01:30:44
Mr. Quarles?
01:30:45
Yes.
SPEAKER_15
01:30:46
Mr. Goodwin?
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:30:47
Yes.
SPEAKER_18
01:30:48
Mr. Percy?
01:30:48
Yes.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:30:49
Very well, that is approved.
01:30:52
Mr. Quarles, your second motion.
SPEAKER_03
01:30:56
I would like to forward this to the Board of Supervisors with recommendation of approval.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:31:02
We have a motion to recommend approval to the Board of Supervisors.
01:31:06
Is there a second?
Todd Hicks
Member, Planning Commission
01:31:08
Second.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:31:09
Moved and seconded.
01:31:10
Any further discussion?
01:31:15
Very well, Ms. Johnson.
SPEAKER_15
01:31:18
Mr. Hicks?
01:31:18
Yes.
01:31:19
Mr. Bainesen?
01:31:19
Yes.
01:31:22
Yes.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:31:25
Yes.
01:31:27
Yes.
SPEAKER_18
01:31:28
Yes.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:31:32
Next item up is Amendments Chapter 86, Land Development Regulations Regarding Campgrounds.
01:31:41
Is this Mr. Coon or Ms. Buckler?
01:31:47
Can you stand in?
Linda Buckler
Director of Community Development
01:31:49
This is an item that the Planning Commission has been working on for several months and at the last meeting during work session the Planning Commission went through the proposed amendments and agreed on the items that were to go to public hearing and that's what has been advertised.
01:32:12
This is for
01:32:14
Ehrlich, separate regulations for recreational campgrounds and for temporary workforce lodging that establish density setback buffering recreational amenities and look at the health and safety of the public.
01:32:31
So, staff is here to answer any questions as you move through the public hearing process.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:32:40
Very well, thank you.
01:32:41
Any questions for staff at this time?
01:32:47
Very well.
01:32:48
Then we'll move on to public hearing.
01:32:54
Public hearing is open.
01:32:55
Since this is an ordinance change, we don't have an applicant.
01:32:58
So we'll move directly to comments from the public.
01:33:02
If anyone would like to address this, please come forward and state your name and voting district.
SPEAKER_09
01:33:15
My understanding is this zoning amendment is going to tighten up the workforce lodging limits to three campsites maximum.
01:33:27
It'll also put a 200-foot setback and a 150-foot vegetation requirement.
01:33:33
And it'll try to preserve the rural nature.
01:33:36
And I just want to verify that that's indeed what this proposal is addressing.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:33:42
Those are elements within this proposal.
SPEAKER_09
01:33:45
I think this is a smart move for the county
01:33:50
It'll stop having discussions about, I think, a lot of the AFD that might want to change over, as we had tonight.
01:33:58
Good discussions, good willing people, no ill will, but I think this will help everybody understand what's the county looking for, so we can all go in about it much more orderly.
01:34:10
So I definitely support this and thank you for your time.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:34:14
Thank you.
01:34:14
Would anyone else like to speak?
SPEAKER_23
01:34:23
I don't know if it's my misunderstanding, but I thought once it was voted not to have it through the agriculture, this topic was ended, or is it still on the table?
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:34:36
Ma'am, let me clarify that this is a general ordinance regarding campgrounds and workforce housing camping in the community.
01:34:46
This has nothing to do with a specific application that was to be brought on Gridline LLC.
SPEAKER_23
01:34:53
Okay, so it's not from Bibstar Road or anything like that?
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:34:58
It's not specific to Bibstar Road.
01:35:00
This is a general ordinance for the entire county.
SPEAKER_23
01:35:02
Okay.
01:35:03
Well, I have lived in a motor coach in Florida and you cannot have campers
01:35:13
in any kind of trail or anything in the wintertime, and they cannot accommodate whatever kind of situation they're in.
01:35:25
They have to have fire and police and all the other services that are required, sewer, garbage.
01:35:35
The counties, the people in the county are gonna have to
01:35:40
O'Brien, and Michael O'Brien.
01:35:52
So, I think the
01:36:04
Plante that are being built.
01:36:06
They should accommodate their workers.
01:36:08
They should not have campgrounds accommodating workers that are in this county.
01:36:15
Wherever you put RV park, you have transient people and you don't know where these people are from.
01:36:21
These people can be criminals for all you know.
01:36:25
There's no background checks.
01:36:26
and you're putting them in areas that are subjecting the population.
01:36:32
So I think it should be reviewed where you're going to put these and if you should put them.
01:36:39
But I think the people that are doing housing should accommodate their workers, not campgrounds because you cannot keep people in campgrounds year round.
01:36:53
That's all I have to say.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:36:54
Thank you.
01:36:57
Would anyone else like to speak?
SPEAKER_01
01:37:06
Good evening commissioners, staff.
01:37:08
My name is Sarah Marshall.
01:37:09
I live in the Mineral District.
01:37:11
Since this is not in discussion with a personal conditional use permit or anything like that, I do want to make comment that I am speaking on my own personal behalf and not representing any entity whatsoever other than myself.
01:37:25
In reading the draft proposal for the ordinance change and coming to many of your meetings over the past many months, I think I've spent more time in meetings regarding campgrounds and temporary workforce housing than I have for a lot of other projects.
01:37:40
But there are a few things in the draft regulations I want to highlight.
01:37:44
A few questions, but really a few points of interest.
01:37:47
The first is I do not understand the reasoning for not allowing tent camping and tent trailers and campgrounds specifically.
01:37:55
The reason for this is because they are both allowed at Christopher Run and Small Country and they are allowed at campgrounds, recreational campgrounds across the nation, including in national, state, and local parks.
01:38:09
Requiring the appropriate restroom and other amenities would be more appropriate than not allowing recreational tent camping.
01:38:17
Related to that, but a little bit more distinct, the current definition for recreational shelter for both campgrounds and temporary workforce housing does not limit those shelters to those with restroom or kitchen facilities.
01:38:32
I would recommend using the definition of a self-contained recreational vehicle
01:38:36
As a simpler and more specific definition, as these make sure that they include all of those that you have listed in the current ordinance, but with the requirement of those restroom and kitchen facilities, the current ordinance definition does not require that, which means you could have someone in a camper that does not have the appropriate restroom facilities.
01:38:59
One other thing that I would like to note, and I know you all have talked about quite a bit, is that for both campgrounds and temporary workforce housing, the language currently states that the address should not be used to establish permanent residential occupancy or to register students with Louisa County Public Schools.
01:39:16
I completely agree with that for those who are coming to recreate or for temporary work.
01:39:22
However, the way the language is currently written
01:39:25
It does not allow for the property owner who may also have a house on that property to allow their kids to go to Louisa County Public Schools or live in their home as a registered permanent residence.
01:39:40
So I would recommend making an amendment to allow for the property owner themselves, not those who are staying at the campground or in the workforce housing, to use that address as their permanent residency.
01:39:52
so that if they have kids they can go to Louisa County Public Schools.
01:39:58
I also think you should increase the number from three to ten because without that with the other ordinance requirements you are making a very costly increase for those who may want to accommodate both temporary workforce or campgrounds.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:40:12
Thank you.
01:40:14
Would anyone else like to speak?
01:40:21
Very well, seeing no others, we'll close the public hearing and bring it back to the Commission for discussion.
01:40:28
Do we have any discussion?
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:40:33
Mr. Goodwin.
01:40:33
You always look at me, Mr.
01:40:35
Chair.
01:40:35
I always know where to start.
01:40:38
I would like this question to go to staff, please.
01:40:43
because I think I agree with all of Ms. Marshall's suggestions with the exception of her last one of increasing the number of camping lots or whatever, the mail issue and all that.
01:41:05
Can you just, have you had a chance to look at that and can you respond to it?
01:41:10
Do you agree that those are good points?
01:41:15
because he sounded like it to me.
01:41:18
Thank you.
Linda Buckler
Director of Community Development
01:41:22
Just listening to Ms. Marshall's comments, they seem reasonable as far as adding self-contained, which would clarify that the units or the recreational vehicles or shelters themselves have to have the facilities
01:41:40
if we're not going to put in the ordinance to require the bathroom facilities or restroom facilities on site.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:41:48
I've got them marked here because this is a combination of Mr. Kelly's comments and Ms. Marshall's comments and I marked them all in my package here to discuss.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:42:02
The tent issue I was unsure when she said campground was she only referring to campground and that needs to be it's a technical change or was she also referring to temporary housing if she's referring to campground
01:42:20
and I think that's a good idea.
01:42:22
And like I said, I'd just like for you all to, because I think they're all good except for I can't go with that a lot.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:42:32
Mr. Kelly also commented on tent camping and tent trailers as for small countries, not small country, Christopher Run, as you state have.
01:42:43
Yes.
01:42:44
So, and I was in agreement with that as well.
01:42:47
And again, for campground, as I understand, and this is tying these two things together, campground has state requirements for bathroom facilities and shower facilities and those things.
Linda Buckler
Director of Community Development
01:42:59
Once you get to three or more campsites, then the Virginia Department of Health has regulations for campgrounds.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:43:08
So that's why that would not be an issue to remove the tent camping and tent trailers from the campground itself.
Linda Buckler
Director of Community Development
01:43:15
And I think in the Planning Commission's previous discussions and trying to be as consistent with
01:43:22
Pass, or existing campgrounds that allowing the tent or the tent trailer in the recreational campgrounds would be a reasonable change to that definition.
01:43:36
That was along with the address clarifying that that the property owner if they live on site could use that for to register school aged children, but not for the transient
01:43:49
or the temporary workforce lodging individuals.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:43:53
Exactly and that statement and that's under campground item H and temporary workforce lodging item I and what that would say is the campground or the
01:44:13
T. workforce lodging address shall not be used by anyone other than the property owner to establish permanent residential occupancy inconsistent with temporary recreational nature of the use for the registered students.
01:44:35
So that would clarify that piece.
01:44:40
There was a third item that Mr. Kelly brought up and I believe that is in the sheets that were handed out tonight.
01:44:55
I'll get there and just, yes, yes it is.
01:44:59
It's the one, just the white sheet.
01:45:02
And that item is that
01:45:09
Here we go.
01:45:10
It says Requirement G states, and this is for campgrounds only, Requirement G states that mobile slash manufactured homes are not permitted.
01:45:19
Many campgrounds use these as rentals and they should not be prohibited.
01:45:26
So that's something that, like Lake Anna State Park has cabins.
01:45:33
Now I don't know if that's, they're actually not mobile homes, they're not,
01:45:37
I don't believe they're manufactured homes, but they might have been brought in that way.
01:45:42
I don't know.
01:45:42
And I don't know if we want to expand the definitions right now or to hold where we are and wait until we see if we have a need for that sort of thing.
01:45:54
But that's, again, that's strictly in campground.
01:45:57
That's not, and that was to allow, I think, some type of manufactured structure to be used within a campground as a rental unit.
01:46:08
So I would say at this point we don't necessarily have to take that up for this set of changes since we haven't had that request come in.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:46:23
Mr.
01:46:24
Chair, on that did
01:46:32
Did he say at any point when he says many campgrounds use these are these Louisa campgrounds or these campgrounds that he stayed in?
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:46:41
He didn't say.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:46:43
Yeah, that's that would be an interesting thing to find out before we take it out.
01:46:47
Take it up.
01:46:48
Yeah, but then it would still be a grandfather issue, I would think.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:46:52
Yeah, I mean, if it's there, it's there.
01:46:54
But at this point, I think probably we haven't had the use in Louisa County, and we haven't had many applications for campgrounds as we're discussing here.
01:47:07
Plus, they come in under CUP, so it could be evaluated under the CUP outside of the ordinance.
01:47:14
I would think there's a special exception outside of that if we needed to.
01:47:19
So that's an item to consider, but I don't know if we need to take it up to move this forward.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:47:27
I don't think so.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:47:37
The only other thing I noted, Ms. Buckler, I'm going to point this out to you.
01:47:44
This is on packet page 244.
01:47:47
I think we need to get this cleared up.
01:47:51
Under temporary workforce lodging, it's item I.
01:47:55
Item I begins with the statement transient occupancy tax should be collected when legally applicable.
01:48:04
And the next statement has to do with the address not being used for permanent residential occupancy.
01:48:11
I believe that probably should be a new paragraph.
01:48:13
That's a whole different item and that just wasn't captured in the packet that I have.
Linda Buckler
Director of Community Development
01:48:19
It looks like probably just in the various iterations of it.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:48:22
Exactly, exactly.
01:48:33
Very good.
01:48:34
Those were the changes I had.
01:48:36
Thank you, Commissioner Goodwin, for launching that.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:48:46
Mr.
01:48:46
Chair, I had a couple of more.
01:48:49
Looking at the letter to the Commission,
01:48:54
from Southern Revere.
01:48:58
I would offer with, I'll refer to our attorney on this, but it talks about not denying any activity that is
01:49:15
W. Smith,
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:49:34
I don't believe that's correct.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:49:35
I think that's the way that is now.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:49:37
I believe that was an interpretation that was misread.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:49:40
Okay.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:49:42
That's an interpretation that Attorney General Meagher has provided that was misunderstood and misread and I brought that up.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:49:50
You and I have had this discussion.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:49:54
We absolutely can comment on agritourism.
01:49:56
Just because you can look out a window and see a cow doesn't mean you've got agritourism going on.
01:50:01
Okay.
01:50:01
And you can't fall into that.
01:50:03
Alright.
01:50:04
Just wanted to bring that up.
01:50:05
That's right out of the former Attorney General's mouth.
01:50:09
And I'm happy to take that up with anyone who wants to.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:50:12
You and I have had this discussion.
01:50:14
And I actually agree with you.
01:50:18
and have all along.
01:50:19
The one thing we have not discussed and it just occurred to me as I was reading through this packet is absentee landowners.
01:50:30
We all have the vision of someone living on the land or next to the land, but suppose this person lives in Maryland and he rents and receives money totally through the mail.
01:50:46
He's never seen anybody that's there.
01:50:48
There's no adult supervision there other than
01:50:53
We get a complaint-based activity.
01:50:57
Do we want to, it's not a recommendation, it was a, you know, we didn't even think about that.
01:51:02
Do we want to think about it?
01:51:06
Did I miss it again?
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:51:15
That is for campground.
01:51:17
Is the question for campground?
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:51:20
No, the campground is for the temporary workforce housing.
01:51:25
I have not seen that we've talked about that or see it in it, but I could have missed it.
01:51:31
I told you that from a neck up is the weakest part of my body.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:51:36
Not tonight apparently.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:51:42
To me, there's a difference.
01:51:45
I don't know that I have a recommendation, but whether somebody is there or adjacent to it is totally different than somebody in New York or California that maybe may have bought it blind and has never seen the property.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:52:03
It would be my desire to have an on-site person, so I would say the idea that
01:52:12
Now, I'm not calling for an administrative officer and manager on doing all that.
01:52:17
You do for a full campground, but I think if you're going to do this, you're going to need to have somebody on site to take care of this.
01:52:26
I really do.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:52:27
I lean in that same direction, Mr.
01:52:29
Chair, but now we get into the conversation is what is non-resident or absentee contact information?
01:52:42
You'll get into the question of what is absentee.
01:52:46
I expect we have people in the county now that don't live on the lot.
01:52:50
They may live in a totally different section of the county.
01:52:54
They're not totally unassociated with it.
01:52:58
But they're not really what I would call absentee either.
01:53:01
Never laid eyes on the property or the people there.
01:53:04
So that's a drill down.
01:53:06
And all of that just went through my mind this week.
01:53:09
We haven't even talked about that.
01:53:13
I expect we have people here tonight that don't live on the property, but they're Louisian people.
01:53:22
I'm not sure how to go about it, but I do think it's considerable.
SPEAKER_03
01:53:33
Mr. Chairman.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:53:34
Mr. Quarles.
SPEAKER_03
01:53:40
I hear Mr. Goodwin and
01:53:43
I wonder if this is a thing that we can enforce, that we can prove, that we can, you know, I mean, to me it's kind of vague because to determine whether a person has visited the property enough or lives close enough to the property, I think you really have to be careful there because one, it's got to be enforceable.
01:54:11
You know, you can make any rule you want.
01:54:13
I've always said this, but if you can't enforce it, it just doesn't work.
01:54:21
I just caution in consideration of that.
01:54:27
Thank you.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:54:29
Thank you, Mr. Quarles.
Linda Buckler
Director of Community Development
01:54:44
So under the temporary workforce lodging definition item H, the owner-operator has to register with the community development department and they have to maintain current owner and authorized property manager contact information.
01:55:03
We could expand on that if that's
01:55:11
as far as having a contact person available.
01:55:19
More in line with the recreational, the campground requirements.
01:56:02
My impression feels that there are enough questions this evening that you all don't feel comfortable moving forward with action on the public hearing.
01:56:14
You could table it.
01:56:14
We can come back with trying to address some of the questions that you all have brought up this evening.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:56:21
I kind of feel like we did on another, because I don't have an answer.
01:56:27
I've only got a question.
01:56:28
I know that's not the way to go into a meeting.
01:56:35
But I'd like to not hold this up, but keep it in mind and see if there's a solution.
01:56:46
This has been out there for a long time now.
01:56:49
and that would mean another month it's out there unless somebody's got some sort of solution.
01:56:56
I'm sorry, I just don't, you know, I could say that the owner must be a resident of Louisa but I don't know if we start getting into then being biased and illegal and I'd have to talk to the
01:57:14
but I know we've got people in Louisa that own lots that are not adjacent to their property that are considering this and I'm not concerned about that.
01:57:25
I'm concerned about the person who's done all this by mail and may have never stepped on the property.
SPEAKER_25
01:57:36
Can you cite where you are in here under age?
01:58:00
I would say the same to what's the definition of regularly.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:58:22
and it's once every five years could be regular.
Linda Buckler
Director of Community Development
01:58:25
So the last part of that sentence says and shall provide a biannual operational report and updated contact information.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:58:36
Yeah but I think I think it's it's an even deeper question than that to get to do we require someone to live on the property
01:58:46
Or do we require someone to be at the property as a manager?
01:58:52
Do we require an on-site manager?
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
01:59:12
It may be a non-issue.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
01:59:15
Well, I think if you, I don't know that you want to require the person to live on the property.
01:59:23
However, I do think it might be important to have an on-site person available, even part of the day.
01:59:36
And that's forcing someone to be there with some regularity.
01:59:39
I mean these kind of things, these campgrounds like this for Surrey Power Station and a bunch of them here for North Anna Power Station have operated for 40 to 60 years.
01:59:56
Some of them I know down at Surrey it's a field on the side of the road and because of the nature of the work and the people that flow through there's never an issue.
02:00:07
To begin with they're all vetted
02:00:09
at the power plant, so you're not getting riffraff because you can't get credentials at the power plant, so you don't have that issue.
02:00:23
Generally speaking, they're on 12 off 12, and by the time you get off and get home, they're sleeping.
02:00:31
It's not wild parties and that kind of thing.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:00:35
I understand it doesn't always work that way.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:00:42
That's why we have so many other requirements in here.
02:00:45
So the idea that someone needs to be there constantly, I'm not as concerned about, but having someone there maybe daily or maybe...
02:00:59
I think that would be something that would be beneficial.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:01:04
How about must be able to respond on request within a certain amount of time?
02:01:13
Because if we're complaint based anyway, if we get a complaint, somebody's got to be able to respond within 30 minutes, what?
02:01:24
whatever we want to put on it.
02:01:25
But then that would preclude somebody who's never been there.
02:01:30
It's going to be somebody who's going to have to be here.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:01:32
I like that.
02:01:34
I like that.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:01:37
It's a combination of what you just said and what I'm concerned about.
02:01:42
It doesn't have to be the landowner, but whoever is identified must be able to get there within a certain amount of time.
02:01:48
You've got a problem over there.
02:01:50
And I don't mean catch the next flight from California.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:01:53
That's right.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:01:58
I don't know if 30 minutes, I just threw that out of the air.
02:02:01
I hadn't thought about it, but something along those lines.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:02:05
Well, if you say 30 minutes, it's certainly going to drive these things closer to home.
02:02:11
Yeah.
02:02:11
Which is what you want to do.
02:02:13
Most of them that I see crop up here and there are in the backyard.
02:02:18
Yeah.
02:02:19
So, you know, most of them, it's not an issue to begin with.
02:02:26
I like that idea.
02:02:28
I don't know how that suits everyone else.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:02:34
Otherwise, you're not available.
02:02:45
I'm sorry.
02:02:45
I'm at work in Richmond.
02:02:47
Sorry.
02:02:47
How about that Mr. Post?
SPEAKER_18
02:02:51
Well, if you're down to dabbiness, you're not going to get to Melton's in 30 minutes.
02:02:55
I do know that.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:02:56
Maybe you don't select that guy to be your caretaker.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:03:00
Forty-five.
02:03:02
Forty-five.
02:03:05
Forty-five minutes.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:03:08
I'm good with it.
02:03:10
I just want to make it close enough so somebody can respond and know something about the place.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:03:14
Yes, Mr. Hicks.
Todd Hicks
Member, Planning Commission
02:03:18
I liked it.
02:03:20
Mine was much more spread out along the 12 hour time frame, not 30 or one hour.
SPEAKER_14
02:03:24
It was just a...
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:03:29
Originally I was thinking 20, 40, 40.
Todd Hicks
Member, Planning Commission
02:03:40
Then the 30 came up.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:03:43
So I guess in item H we would have a sentence added that says the owner operator shall be able to respond in person to the
02:03:59
How about the owner, operator, or representative?
02:04:02
And I'll say that only because you have to be able to go to the doctor or that kind of thing.
02:04:08
The owner, operator, or representative shall be able to respond to the campground or to the facility within 45 minutes.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:04:22
Mr.
02:04:24
Chair, I like that.
02:04:25
The thing that I would say is the representative has also got to be registered in the county because if you can't get in touch with the owner, you got to have a way to get in touch with the guy who's the number two.
02:04:41
Whatever language has to be changed for that.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:04:44
It says the owner operator shall register.
02:04:46
The owner operator and representative shall register.
02:04:56
So we put an and and add that and then another sentence it says within 45 minutes yeah Shall be able to respond or to in person respond in person not just pick up the phone right in person to the to the
02:05:27
facility, whatever we call the facility here within 45 minutes.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:05:32
I like that.
02:05:32
I'd like to hear from the other commissioners if they're comfortable with it.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:05:49
Anybody find that unacceptable?
SPEAKER_14
02:05:55
Mr. Chairman, I would certainly find it unacceptable.
02:05:58
In fact, I believe there's about 10 pages of overregulation here.
02:06:04
So that's my comment.
02:06:06
Thank you for the opportunity.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:06:23
Any other comments on this thing?
Tommy J. Barlow
Board of Supervisors Liaison Member, Planning Commission
02:06:26
I have a question.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:06:28
Mr. Barlow.
Tommy J. Barlow
Board of Supervisors Liaison Member, Planning Commission
02:06:30
On page 241, just clarification, item C, but it's the same sentence just scattered throughout both the workforce stuff and the campgrounds.
02:06:47
We took out the section about the Virginia State Fire Code, but we got in here the internal travelways, access points, serving the campgrounds shall be subject to review and approval by the county fire and EMS chief or the designee.
02:07:07
My question was, when we talked about this, and I guess Chris is gone, but
02:07:16
What is the criteria that the fire and EMS chief would be likely to utilize?
02:07:27
And in other words, I would thank the fire and the en masse chief.
02:07:36
I know that she doesn't tote around the Virginia State fire code like some of the fire marshals do, but it just seems sort of open-ended that one person would be responsible for review and approval of that, and yet we don't know what criteria.
02:07:56
That would be used.
Christopher S. Coon
Deputy County Administrator
02:07:58
We had the criteria in there and Planning Commission had requested that it was reviewed by the fire chief or their designee.
02:08:08
So that's why we put it in there.
02:08:10
So it would be up to the fire chief's determination that it was ambulances or other materials that would need access to the site that they would be able to access.
Tommy J. Barlow
Board of Supervisors Liaison Member, Planning Commission
02:08:21
I understand that.
02:08:23
I'm just saying if she pulls out the Virginia State Fire Code and says you got to have 22 feet of travel service and your shoulders got to support 10,000 pounds per square foot, those are the kind of things that are in the Virginia State Fire Code.
02:08:42
So what
02:08:45
If she's going to review, she is going to review and approve the interest weight or access weight, what would they be going by?
02:09:00
Because are we falling all of a sudden back to a requirement that's more stringent than the road requirements?
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:09:08
Well, look, as I recall at the
02:09:14
This is November.
02:09:15
At the October meeting, Mr. Barlow, you particularly wanted us to remove the state fire code because you said VDOT couldn't even, VDOT roads couldn't even meet the state fire code.
02:09:27
So we all talked about it.
02:09:28
We all agreed that what we would do is allow fire and EMS chief to review it and verify that they could get their equipment in and out.
02:09:38
And we all said that was a good answer for that and solved all the problems.
02:09:41
So I don't understand why this question is coming up again.
Tommy J. Barlow
Board of Supervisors Liaison Member, Planning Commission
02:09:44
She's coming up again because what is she going to say that is safe?
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:09:51
She's going to make that determination because she's the expert in charge of that.
02:09:56
She's responsible for that.
Tommy J. Barlow
Board of Supervisors Liaison Member, Planning Commission
02:09:57
So she's not going to come back and say you've got to have 22 feet of travels?
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:10:01
She's going to determine whether or not the proposal that's provided, just like they do for all the other things when we get the email from them and they say I looked at it and I find it acceptable, she's going to determine that what was proposed in the site plan allows her to get all of her equipment in and out and everything works fine.
02:10:20
That's what she's going to do.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:10:22
Mr.
02:10:22
Chair, I would add to that that her determination will change every time we buy a piece of equipment that's larger than the current inventory.
02:10:34
It may be.
02:10:36
She may have approved one last year but now we just got a new piece of equipment that's five foot longer or whatever and she's going to look at it different but we can't give her a number because 10 years from now it may be so out of date it doesn't make any sense.
02:10:51
And it's the way it's been done.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:10:53
Forever.
02:10:53
On every one of them forever.
02:10:55
So I don't see what the question is.
02:10:57
We resolved this at the last meeting.
Tommy J. Barlow
Board of Supervisors Liaison Member, Planning Commission
02:10:58
I don't understand why it's coming back up.
02:11:01
Has the fire chief been the approval person on these things?
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:11:06
The fire chief has written, please correct me if I'm wrong, but she's done reviews on a number of other applications and sent emails and said, we've reviewed this and found this acceptable.
02:11:21
Am I wrong here?
SPEAKER_03
02:11:22
Either she has or Tommy Luck.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:11:25
Her representative has.
02:11:26
Absolutely.
02:11:28
So I guess we're good here then.
Tommy J. Barlow
Board of Supervisors Liaison Member, Planning Commission
02:11:32
Head.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:11:42
Anything further on this?
02:12:03
Is this something the Planning Commission wants to take up tonight or wants to table it?
02:12:08
We've made changes.
02:12:10
We have a document.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:12:14
Mr.
02:12:17
Chair, there's no outstanding issue out there.
02:12:23
We may not agree on what we've got, but we haven't left anything open.
02:12:28
So I don't know why we couldn't act on it.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:12:31
Very well then, the Chair will entertain a motion on this action tonight.
Linda Buckler
Director of Community Development
02:12:39
Mr. Chairman, if someone makes a motion, can they please go through the changes?
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:12:44
We'll do our best.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:12:46
There have been a lot.
02:12:47
Oh my gosh.
02:12:48
You're usually the one best to do that.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:12:51
I think so.
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
02:12:58
Mr. Chairman.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:13:00
Mr. Dickerson.
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
02:13:01
How we move we recommend to approval of this wonderful draft of campgrounds and workforce housing with the changes we've discussed tonight which include the owner operator or representative being able to respond within 45 minutes to the site.
02:13:23
That tent trailers and tent camping be included in campgrounds.
02:13:28
that self-contained recreational vehicles be the name used for those wonderful vehicles that we've been talking about for months and that the landowners should be able to register for schools and live on the property.
02:13:42
I think those are all the changes.
02:13:43
Did I miss anything?
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:13:47
The 45 minimum?
02:13:48
I got it.
02:13:49
Okay, got it.
02:13:54
So let's move, let's move.
02:13:57
I'll second.
Linda Buckler
Director of Community Development
02:13:59
Ms. Buckles?
02:14:00
Just to clarify, it's also separating the two sentences under I.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:14:05
Under I, yes, to make the new paragraph.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:14:09
I second.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:14:10
So we have a motion and a second.
02:14:12
Is there any further discussion?
02:14:18
Ms. Johnson?
02:14:19
Mr. Hicks?
02:14:20
Yes.
02:14:21
Mr. painting?
02:14:21
No.
02:14:23
Mr. Disosway?
02:14:24
Yes.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:14:25
Yes.
02:14:26
Mr. Quarles?
02:14:28
No.
SPEAKER_15
02:14:29
Mr. Goodwin?
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:14:30
Yes.
SPEAKER_15
02:14:31
Mr. Kersey?
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:14:32
No.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:14:35
Very well.
02:14:36
I believe that is a pass.
02:14:40
So we will send that on.
02:14:45
So next up is amendments to land development regulations regarding electronic message signs.
Linda Buckler
Director of Community Development
02:15:14
As staff mentioned at the October meeting that this item would be coming back before you.
02:15:21
The board appointed a committee to look at electronic message signs in the agricultural and residential designing districts.
02:15:32
What you have before you is
02:15:35
what has been looked at and this would be for electronic message signs in the A1, A2, R1 and R2 zoning districts with a special exception by the Board of Supervisors but only be available for projects directly funded by Louisa County, Louisa County Public Schools, religious organizations or non-profit or not-profit
02:16:00
Excuse me, organizations that are exempt from taxation under section 501c3 of the Internal Revenue Code.
02:16:09
So it would require a special exception with the board and only be available for those entities.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:16:17
Any questions for Ms. Buckler at this time?
02:16:24
All right, we'll open the public hearing.
02:16:27
W. Smith.
SPEAKER_23
02:16:33
Thank you.
02:16:49
Apparently everybody that was here that left thought that this campground situation was not- Ma'am, ma'am, this has nothing to do with that.
02:16:57
It does too because she's talking about signs putting up.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:17:01
Ma'am, ma'am, this has nothing to do with campgrounds.
02:17:05
This is an electronic sign ordinance.
02:17:07
It's separate completely from that.
SPEAKER_23
02:17:09
from what has to do?
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:17:13
It has nothing to do with campgrounds or temporary workforce housing or anything.
02:17:20
I just wanna clarify this.
02:17:22
It's your three minutes.
02:17:23
If you wanna speak, you can tell us anything you want, but it has nothing to do with campgrounds.
SPEAKER_23
02:17:28
Okay, so anybody can put an RV on their property
02:17:36
and have the kids that are in that RV go to our school.
02:17:40
Is that what you're saying?
02:17:43
And they don't have to be related, they can just be illegals.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:17:48
Ma'am, this public hearing we're talking about has to do with electronic message signs.
SPEAKER_23
02:17:53
Okay, and what are we talking about?
02:17:57
Campground electric signs?
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:17:58
We're talking about electronic message signs in general in the county.
SPEAKER_23
02:18:04
For what businesses?
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:18:06
Manley,
SPEAKER_23
02:18:26
coming down.
02:18:27
There's enough distractions with cars coming down that road.
02:18:31
That road isn't wide enough.
02:18:32
So if you're planning on putting signs on the road that are electronic, it's gonna be a distraction because that road hardly even can have regular vehicles on that road, especially if you have school buses and big rigs.
02:18:50
I mean, that is a distraction.
02:18:53
on country roads.
02:18:56
So that's what I want to say about signs, electronic signs.
02:19:00
Unless they're on main highways, I don't think we should be putting electric signs on country roads.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:19:07
Thank you.
02:19:12
Would anyone else like to speak on this?
02:19:18
Very well, then the public hearing is closed, and we'll bring it back to the commission for discussion.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:19:29
Mr.
02:19:30
Chair.
02:19:30
Mr. Goodwin.
02:19:32
We discussed this at a September meeting, and I think we agreed that unless the language has changed, which I didn't see any changes in it,
02:19:48
We agreed that it was not an issue, but the board is sending it back to us for what reason?
Christopher S. Coon
Deputy County Administrator
02:19:56
So back in September, the question was if Planning Commission wanted to reconsider the signed ordinance.
02:20:03
You all decided, no, you do not want to reconsider the signed ordinance.
02:20:06
And that's what Ms. Buckler had mentioned.
02:20:08
The committee was made to basically draft this language and was sent from the board to have a public hearing on this specific item.
02:20:16
to get you all's recommendation and send it back to the board.
02:20:20
So instead of just asking if you would like to reconsider, they specifically sent this down for the public hearing to get the recommendation so then they can act on it.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:20:32
So really nothing has changed.
02:20:34
They just want us to go through a public hearing and a vote.
Christopher S. Coon
Deputy County Administrator
02:20:38
And now they've prepared the specific language that they're interested in.
02:20:42
Right.
02:20:43
Okay.
Linda Buckler
Director of Community Development
02:20:44
And just to clarify, it is slightly different from the draft that was in your package in September where you were asked to reconsider it, because it is now specifically only for certain
02:20:57
McPhee, non-profit groups, county funded by the county, Louisa County Public Schools, religious organizations, or non-profit or not-profit organizations that are exempt from taxation.
02:21:11
That was not in the September language.
02:21:13
That was originally sent to you all.
Christopher S. Coon
Deputy County Administrator
02:21:15
So only those four organizations that have a reason to share information would even qualify for a special exception.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:21:29
Mr. Hicks.
Todd Hicks
Member, Planning Commission
02:21:30
I watched that meeting where Supervisor Williams sent back and did this.
02:21:34
And I went back and I thought about it.
02:21:36
And I did modify my opinion of this slightly.
02:21:41
And it's because of advancing technology on the matter.
02:21:44
When this was addressed with electronic signs, there was limitations.
02:21:48
There was brightness.
02:21:49
There was VDOT concerns.
02:21:51
There was safety concerns.
02:21:53
And after hearing this from multiple ways,
02:21:58
One, in the church scenario, I really do support what they're trying to do, even in the rural areas.
02:22:06
If they can keep the looms to a safe limitation for nighttime driving, what those limitations are or numbers are, I'm not sure.
02:22:14
But I agree that when they put this back through and continue to take another look at it under the special exception form, truthfully and as a person, I want to tell these churches yes, because
02:22:26
So many of the churches that are speaking for this.
02:22:30
You know, we've got January, February, March around the corner expected for a wet winter.
02:22:37
Going out changing signs.
02:22:38
I mean, one of my favorite things to do driving through our district is read the messages on the church signs.
02:22:43
They're inspirational, hilarious, pick me up, smack in the face.
02:22:49
They're everything.
02:22:49
They're good messages.
Christopher S. Coon
Deputy County Administrator
02:22:52
As long as they're safe.
Todd Hicks
Member, Planning Commission
02:22:54
And I think this can be controlled by apps on the phone.
02:22:58
This can be controlled without going on site.
02:23:00
This can be done even inside the church.
02:23:03
And I think advancement in technology deserves a second consideration of it on what they're doing.
02:23:12
It's slightly different since then and watching that come back from the board to this.
02:23:18
What I was expecting or hoping to see was Loom limitations, more specifics and so forth on that.
Christopher S. Coon
Deputy County Administrator
02:23:24
But we do have NIT limitations already in the code.
02:23:28
So that's already accounted for.
02:23:30
The only reason why we use NITs instead is because it can be measured at daytime or nighttime.
02:23:35
So for code enforcement, it's a little bit easier than looms at night.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:23:49
Any other comments or discussion?
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:24:02
Mr.
02:24:02
Chair, I need clarification.
02:24:05
Other than tax purposes, we're seeing that churches and nonprofit organizations are exempt from all of this.
Christopher S. Coon
Deputy County Administrator
02:24:14
No.
02:24:16
They can file a special exception to get a sign.
02:24:19
So not a, if it was somebody that wants to use it for a feed and seed store in the future, then they'd have to go through a different process or rezone or whatever.
02:24:31
But if it was a church, a nonprofit, or a county school, or something that the county owns, we would be able to apply for a special exception to do this in those zoning districts.
02:24:44
They still have to abide by the rules.
02:24:45
It's just they have an opportunity to give a piece to the Board of Supervisors and if they can get a special exception or not.
02:24:52
They still have to apply by the nits and all the other standards that are in there.
02:24:56
It's just instead of prohibiting it from A1 and A2 like we did almost a year ago now, they would be able to file a special exception if they're in one of those four categories.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:25:08
Okay.
02:25:11
So the target audience
02:25:14
Primarily then is a commercial community.
Christopher S. Coon
Deputy County Administrator
02:25:18
Well, no, so our primary...
02:25:19
It's everybody, but I mean... And for this ordinance, it would be members of the community that share information that benefits the community.
02:25:30
So if there's a potluck at Gilboa or, you know, Philippi or wherever, if they're doing some type of back-to-school drive or they're doing something like that, those are the types of information that benefit the community as a whole.
02:25:44
And
02:25:44
We think that if those organizations are the ones that want to get this electronic message signed to share those messages to the community that would benefit the community, they should have that opportunity to come to the board and share that.
02:25:57
Where instead of just letting it be carte blanche, anybody that's in an A1 or A2 district could apply.
02:26:04
It's still a targeted approach, but it's much tighter than anybody.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:26:47
I've always had a little bit of a problem with this just from the proliferation of electronic messaging in a rural environment.
02:27:04
I understand the public message side of it.
02:27:09
I understand the difficulty with
02:27:15
and you can't change a manual sign and get the density of information that you can with an electronic sign, the amount of information, that kind of thing.
02:27:28
I get that.
02:27:30
I'm still just having a hard time balancing that against maintaining rural character of the county.
02:27:44
and part of that real character is at night it's dark and we've lost so much dark from all kinds of lights in people's backyards, three houses go up, people move out here from the city and they have four or five lights on so they have to leave on all night because they want to move out to the country but they're scared to death to be out here without lights on.
02:28:14
I've never understood that and just the dark and the enjoyment of being dark going outside and looking up at the sky I mean like I said earlier we've been here 37 years 37 years ago I could see a whole lot more night sky than I can see now and we haven't had that much development around but the light pollution from all the development we've had when you go out five miles ten miles in the area it's just
02:28:45
you know it's just limiting what we can see and now we're going to add Amazon to that which is going to ruin at least half of my sky vision with you know no consideration for anything like that so it's I'm still having trouble with that I don't want to be
02:29:09
Harsh, to people who have a need or a desire to have these signs because they have a message to get out or it's hard for them to go out and do.
02:29:24
I get that.
02:29:25
But we're also giving up our rural heritage for these kind of things as well.
02:29:32
And I'm having a real hard time finding the balance early on.
02:29:40
And part of it, too, with some of the churches, we have some beautiful old historic churches with a blazing electronic sign out front.
02:29:49
You just look at that and think, boy, that is really out of place.
02:29:52
But, you know, there you have it.
02:29:57
So I don't know what to say about it myself.
02:30:00
I'm really hung on this.
02:30:04
Really hung on it.
02:30:05
I don't know.
Jim Riddell
Chairman
02:30:10
Mr.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:30:10
Chair, I agree completely with you.
02:30:16
I think my church may be one of the ones you're talking about.
02:30:20
But like here, I'm only one voice.
02:30:25
They can be very useful tools.
02:30:29
But other than Mr. Barlow or Supervisor Barlow,
02:30:36
I may be the only one in the room that suffers from one particular thing.
02:30:40
As we get older, our muscles don't work as fast or as well.
02:30:45
My pupils don't adjust and I pass cars going down the road and literally have to watch the ditch and hope I don't hit.
02:30:56
They don't close.
02:30:57
And my own church blasted me last night as I went by it with a black on white sign that blinded me.
02:31:06
That blinded me.
02:31:09
It's not to come up with lumens.
02:31:12
They've come up with lumens in the automobiles, but it doesn't apply to everybody equally.
02:31:17
The older you get, the more receptive you to those things really.
02:31:24
Distraction is a kind word.
02:31:27
Yes, I agree with all of the rule character and all this stuff showing up on, you know, secondary roads and everything.
02:31:34
Where does it stop?
02:31:35
It's hard.
02:31:36
We can't stop technology.
02:31:38
We can't even influence it.
02:31:40
But to say it's not a safety issue, I'm telling you, it is.
02:31:47
And you'll find out when you get to be my age.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:32:05
Any other comments on this?
02:32:17
Then I guess the Chair would entertain a motion one way or the other on this proposal.
SPEAKER_14
02:32:24
Mr. Chairman.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:32:25
Mr. Painting.
SPEAKER_14
02:32:28
I recommend approval to the Board of Supervisors
02:32:33
for proposed amendments as presented by the Board of Supervisors Committee.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:32:41
We have a motion to approve.
02:32:42
Do we have a second?
Todd Hicks
Member, Planning Commission
02:32:44
Second.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:32:45
Moved and seconded.
02:32:46
Any further discussion?
02:32:51
Miss Johnson.
SPEAKER_15
02:32:54
Yes.
02:32:55
Yes.
02:32:57
No.
SPEAKER_18
02:33:03
No.
Christopher S. Coon
Deputy County Administrator
02:33:09
Can we have the alternate motion?
02:33:15
We have the alternate motion, which would be recommendation for denial, and then you all take a vote on that.
02:33:27
Just forward it with an affirmative vote.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:33:29
Very well.
02:33:30
Then do we have a recommendation?
02:33:32
I'm not aware that we've done that before.
02:33:35
We've never done that.
Jim Riddell
Chairman
02:33:37
Why would we do that?
Christopher S. Coon
Deputy County Administrator
02:33:39
So right now the only thing that's happened is there was a motion to approve the item and it was denied so then nothing would get sent to the Board of Supervisors.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:33:45
So well.
02:33:46
That's what we just voted on.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:33:49
We've never, excuse me I'm sorry.
02:33:54
No that's alright, hang on, hang on.
02:33:56
Earlier tonight, no that's right, that was a motion to deny.
Todd Hicks
Member, Planning Commission
02:34:02
I need you to vote in the affirmative to forward it to the Board of Supervisors.
02:34:06
Well, they sent it to us.
02:34:08
We voted previously to make no change.
Lori Schweller
Attorney
02:34:10
I think it would be good to do a vote to recommend to deny.
02:34:15
That way it's very clear when it goes back to the Board of Supervisors.
James Dickerson
Vice Chairman, Planning Commission
02:34:18
Mr. Chairman, how move we recommend denial to the Board of Supervisors for this electronic message?
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:34:26
We have a motion to deny.
02:34:27
Do we have a second?
02:34:29
Second.
02:34:30
Moved and seconded.
02:34:31
Any further discussion?
02:34:36
and again for a motion to denial a yes is to deny and no is to not deny yes yes yes
02:35:02
All right, that brings us to new business.
02:35:04
I don't believe we have a new business on the calendar right now.
02:35:08
So we'll move on to discussion items.
02:35:11
First discussion item is the growth management of rural preservation.
02:35:19
We discussed that earlier.
02:35:22
So, at the work session, and at the work session, we agreed that at this point in discussion, we would have a motion on moving that to public hearing in December.
02:35:36
So, as we discussed in the work session, the chair would entertain a motion
02:35:49
to move that to public hearing in December and whoever makes the motion please identify the four items that we clarified for the motion so we've got that all together.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:36:20
Mr.
02:36:21
Chair, I would make a motion that we move this change to the ordinance to the public hearing stage with the changes that we discussed and agreed upon with respect to minimum lot size being 10
02:36:49
Akers, road frontage on all public roads being 400 feet, road setback being 250 feet, would include the language on private lanes as provided by staff tonight and discussed in the working group.
Todd Hicks
Member, Planning Commission
02:37:22
I'd like to second that.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:37:24
We have a motion and a second.
02:37:26
Do we have any further discussion?
02:37:31
Ms. Johnson.
SPEAKER_15
02:37:33
Mr. Hicks.
02:37:34
Yes.
02:37:34
Mr. Painting.
02:37:35
Yes.
02:37:36
Mr. Disosway.
02:37:39
Yes.
02:37:39
Mr. Dickerson.
02:37:40
Yes.
02:37:40
Mr. Quarles.
02:37:41
No.
02:37:43
Mr. Goodwin.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:37:44
Yes.
02:37:45
Mr.
02:37:45
Cozy.
02:37:45
No.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:37:48
Very well.
02:37:48
That recommendation is approved.
02:37:51
Next up is for discussion draft amendments for review and discussion Ms. Buckler.
Linda Buckler
Director of Community Development
02:38:07
We quickly went through each of the items during the work session and so we're just looking for direction from the Planning Commission at this point if you want to
02:38:19
have further another work session on the items to review them more thoroughly or if you feel that any of them are ready to go to public hearing and as I said in during the work session they are prepared individually so they can be taken one at a time you don't have to take them all at one time it's up to the Planning Commission's desire.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:38:50
So from what we heard earlier, would the Planning Commission like to bring any of these to public hearing in December?
02:39:00
Or would we like to have one more work session to discuss them all and then come to public hearing?
02:39:10
What's the pleasure of the Planning Commission?
Jim Riddell
Chairman
02:39:17
Mr. Hicks?
Todd Hicks
Member, Planning Commission
02:39:19
Move towards public.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:39:21
The only point on all or some.
02:39:27
I didn't think all were quite ready.
02:39:29
Is that is that correct?
Linda Buckler
Director of Community Development
02:39:30
And there are three at the bottom that we that staff said that we are still in the drafting process.
02:39:35
Those three would not be that's the nonconforming residential lots.
02:39:39
the growth area design standards and the one that limiting the time between the Planning Commission action and board action or board public hearing that has not been drafted yet.
02:39:51
So those three are not ready.
02:39:53
But there are five other items, the right of way dedication, the boundary line adjustments, the public utility setbacks, the PUD clarifications and the motor vehicle towing services that staff feels are
02:40:09
and a final form if the planning, unless the Planning Commission has concerns or questions about them to discuss further.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:40:17
All right.
02:40:18
And those so those are the ones that you were speaking.
02:40:21
Very good.
02:40:22
Correct.
02:40:25
Any other thoughts?
SPEAKER_18
02:40:30
Mr. Chairman, I think that from what we approved already for public hearing, that's gonna be lengthy.
02:40:36
We're going to have some other hearings as well.
02:40:38
I think it would be best to wait on the other packet until January for time consideration.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:40:51
Mr.
02:40:51
Chair, a question for staff.
02:40:54
What is it shaping up for in January?
02:40:56
Are we making it better or worse by bow wave in this thing?
Linda Buckler
Director of Community Development
02:41:02
I'm not sure if January is scheduled for December.
02:41:06
I mean, it just, just... We have nine AFDs in December and a conditional use permit right now.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:41:18
Right.
02:41:18
But what is, you don't have any idea about January, just off the top of your head, I don't need to know exactly.
02:41:23
There's four?
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:41:27
Are they AFDs or are they CUPs?
Christopher S. Coon
Deputy County Administrator
02:41:30
At least three over AFDs.
02:41:31
There's one, I'm not sure it's a positive.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:41:36
Okay.
02:41:37
Well, I don't have any problem with moving it then.
02:41:39
I just want to make sure we're not bow waving because we've gotten that at one time.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:41:45
Well, we will have a capital improvement discussion.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:41:48
Yeah, that's a lead in I think.
02:41:51
It's not the final.
02:41:52
It's not the final.
Linda Buckler
Director of Community Development
02:41:52
There will be a capital improvement work session with the finance director in January.
02:42:00
There will be work session with the department heads and then February will be the public hearing on the CIP.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:42:06
We've also got election of officers and review of the bylaws in January.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:42:17
No end of work to be done.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:42:21
We'll move to those two meetings a month yet.
Todd Hicks
Member, Planning Commission
02:42:24
Well, there hasn't been a lot of discussion to go on with these items alongside some of the other topics that have been more lengthy or more in-depth and could be wrong and go to public that could be something that's good to send with.
02:42:45
It's okay.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:42:47
Sometimes these kind of things I do feel like it would would staff be ready at a work session with the final three items do you think in December?
Linda Buckler
Director of Community Development
02:42:57
We hope to be, we should be.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:43:00
We could take them all as a block then in January.
02:43:04
I'd really like to have a little bit of time to discuss them in a work session.
02:43:15
Very good.
02:43:16
Let's attempt to move all of them or at least discuss all of them in December in work session.
02:43:26
Very good.
02:43:28
Ms. Buckler, we have about 17 minutes to get reports done.
Linda Buckler
Director of Community Development
02:43:35
I think I pretty much covered everything.
02:43:37
We have a CUP for a towing yard in December and nine AFD applications we have for the work session with the finance director, the CIP.
02:43:50
That's all I know of at the moment.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:43:55
Very good.
02:43:56
Thank you.
02:43:57
Any questions for Ms. Buckler?
SPEAKER_04
02:44:01
Comment?
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:44:02
Very well.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:44:03
Ms. Brakeville is not here, but I think we owe her a thanks for how she's running that program and getting the involvement.
02:44:11
I wanted to tell her she needs to work on the cuckoo district because I don't have any.
02:44:15
And the other thing I want to wish the commissioners and staff a very happy holiday, happy Thanksgiving.
John Disosway
Chairman, Planning Commission
02:44:24
Yes, thank you.
02:44:27
Very well.
02:44:28
Then the chair would entertain a motion to adjourn.
George Goodwin
Member, Planning Commission
02:44:31
No second.