City Council Meeting   5/13/2025

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Roll call please Pam.

Mayor Reed.

Present.

Council Member Alsadun.

Here.

Council Member Dent.

Here.

He was here.

Thank you.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you.

Oh, and he knows the routine.

He does.

Let us recognize and pay respect to the survivors of our fallen heroes.

So moved.

I'll second with special recognition of the Harrisonburg Downtown Renaissance Levitt AMP Series that is currently on the agenda here, which is really exciting.

Roll call please Pam.

Vice Mayor Fleming.

Aye.

Mayor Reed.

We are now going to our public hearings.

In Figure 2, then it looks similar, but the buildable area is actually smaller and that's because it's a through lot, 25 foot setbacks on both sides and 5 feet on the sides.

Alright, just tell me when.

49 parcels if we counted correctly.

There are many through lots all throughout the city.

They are not in your district.

Okay.

that this will then will have a pop-up of ADUs in this area that for possible rental or just for instances where folks want building a back garage or I'm not really understanding because if we pass this then everyone in that area will then be allowed to do the same, correct?

Yes, ma'am, but so this this These through lots already have the ability to have accessory structures in the rear yard They just have to be within that green box.

I'm just trying to figure out where this could possibly lead in terms of those as accessory dwelling units.

Second question, how do you remember?

Thank you for your knowledge, I appreciate it.

versus an accessory dwelling unit, which at this point we still don't allow.

So I always sort of hesitate and sort of pause a minute when people are talking about accessory dwelling units because it means something different to different folks.

Maybe we don't know that yet.

I believe the BZA may have approved a unit on Campbell Street to actually have living

Thank you

Hi, Quentin.

Any questions?

Less happy.

Less happy.

But happy than he is now.

Right.

But there is clearly a mixture of the 5 and 10 feet.

Was there a reason why we couldn't get to 5 feet?

But it doesn't take away any opportunity for him to be able to build the size of that structure.

As I recall, just looking through the Planning Commission notes, that back street, Bruce Street, East Bruce, is non-conforming or whatever, doesn't meet code.

Public street right away.

So if we were to widen it to get the full curb and gutters and such, we would have to move into

But if you do, and if there are structures in the way and they have to be acquired, it is that much more complicated and expensive to do that.

So, but it sounds like you changed your thought on that now because now you're saying five feet might be a better sight line and I'm not sure I follow that one.

I had more time to think about it.

Okay.

we also have to look about when you're thinking about pulling out of a garage right to your point anyone that's pulling out of a garage and then it's just a matter of how the vehicles orientated when it's coming in or out because you have people that there is no building at all that are backing out of their driveway right and have the same issue when they're backing into the roadway because of other vehicles or structures or people walking or whatever so I think my answer tonight was better than my answer in Planning Commission okay I'll think about that consideration

I just want to...

I'm going to go ahead and continue on with the

Is there anyone else that would like to speak?

Hold on.

Pam, do we have any callers?

One moment, please.

Council, we can have discussion if we put it into a motion.

Alright, now it's open for discussion.

This motion is for 10.

Okay.

I don't see a problem with having Bob if that's what he needs so I'm good with that.

Yes, exactly.

As far as the residents are happy, definitely we can handle it.

I'm inclined to let the Zoning Ordinance Committee take a run at this first and to start with 10 feet and hopefully we can get this done soon with the Zoning Ordinance Committee, right?

I think we're dealing with our applicant right now.

I mean, we can't allow it to continue to drag as it is.

Roll call, please, Pam.

Vice Mayor Fleming.

Aye.

Councilmember Alsaadun.

No.

Mayor Reed.

No.

Okay.

I need a second.

Second.

All right, any more discussion?

My issues about the site line aren't based on what I know necessarily is the safer route, but I can certainly support five feet and hopefully it's safe.

Roll call please, ma'am.

Mayor Reed?

We'll go to our next item, 6B.

They would be relying on pedestrian facilities They'd be relying on public transportation So we really want to promote that opportunity for them to have a safe space to walk and we want that to be promoted Which is why we offer the recommendation to add this as a condition

Now I can't, are you talking about the path to Walmart on the side, the Erikson Avenue entrance?

We did not have a concern with that and not a good planning commission.

Any questions?

For Erickson Avenue, I think there will be a need for traffic over there.

I can get back to you with more specifics.

So like after like finishing that for example the project there will be a travel club because that street is like there will be high traffic and the traffic is

They could even have it built and operating before any of the street improvements are warranted at that intersection.

So is that the one that you want him to do it or just a suggestion?

The applicant prefers the image on the left, believing that it is most cost-effective.

So I don't know how the,

Sound is always going to be, regardless of how you do it, has a lot to do with the construction materials of the building, how many openings there are in the building, and all those sorts of things.

So can he choose his design, or he has to go by the city?

No, he goes by what you approve.

Okay.

Thanks.

setbacks or there's a bigger setback and so the older houses and some of the older neighborhoods you can immediately tell you know how long a house has been there according to how far it's set back from the street but with the amount of tractor trailer I'm thinking who use that street is that I know it's safe or we wouldn't be doing it but is there much of a difference in setback from image one and image two?

It's just that it would look similar to this layout rather than the image on the right if you approved it.

So I think we should allow them to speak to the reasons for that.

The parking lot will be in between the buildings.

It's required by the code.

So the special use permit requires a plan of development when you do a B2 special use permit so that we know what type of building it's going to be, how tall the building is going to be, what it's going to look like, and whether or not that has any impact on really the functionality and usability of the commercial spaces that these types of uses go into.

Okay, got it.

How you doing Frank?

Thank you, Frank.

That's right.

Harrisonburg has been very good to both of us, and it's time for us both, and we're both trying to give back.

Especially for our most vulnerable.

Absolutely.

Citizens here, people here that live here, so thank you for all the work that you're putting in.

Thank you very much.

If it wasn't so inappropriate, I probably would hug you.

Okay, I'll take a rain check.

Thank you for that perspective.

Yes.

So there you go.

If you can reach that.

on the side of Walmart not having to cross a parking lot.

falling into a box culvert there whereas on the other side there is and they have a number of areas in their parking lot now which are cross-hatched for pedestrian and my general experience has been that people tend to respect that so my vision would be to run it down the side I've shown it on however I have signaled to Walmart that I am open to discussion of other routes or whatever makes it so that we connect all of these people with their store okay well that's helpful to know thank you you know I think you know again

I think I saw that Locus was someone that you had been in communication with as a CFI.

I have not yet got that final commitment on that, but it's looking good.

I appreciate what you put together.

Come on up.

Thank you for your time.

Council.

Any more discussion?

So then which one?

As presented.

So we'll go with this.

That's to begin diligent pursuit.

but they're making the case that they're negotiating with Walmart and might get some chances.

This was a recommended condition by staff.

So can you restate your motion?

But not in the other direction to Walmart.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for this evening and they can answer questions as well.

Seeing none in person.

Mayor Reed, there are no callers.

Council.

Any discussion?

Roll call please ma'am.

Mayor Reed?

Mandy and Larry.

I and Mr. Propster are available to answer any questions that you might have or the public might have.

Do you have an estimate of

I think it was about a hundred and seventy thousand dollars in additional cost coming to the city for disposal disposal of our municipal solid waste I'm going to open this item up for public hearing if anyone wishes to speak please state your name and address you'll have five minutes

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Pam, do we have any callers?

One moment, please.

Please state your name and address and your five minutes will begin.

Thank you.

Do we have any other callers?

Mayor Reed, there are no other callers.

There is no vote tonight, but if we want to have any type of comments or discussion.

That's my main comment for now.

So I think we can step into that and see what's available.

So I didn't mean to cut you off, but I just, you said it, so I wanted to make sure that

Yeah, um

I know every single one that you have that passion towards that and you worked hard and I saw that in every time I talk to you but if there is something that we can show at least and then like this year maybe this is a very tight budget and then for next year right yes we are committed but let's start this year by looking for others

We all discussed that at our retreat, yes.

The federal government has now moved away from the at one time funding for some of this and so we're stepping in to do that and it's really difficult for localities to step in for that but we're doing that to support our students so I think we have done a good job stepping up for our schools there.

That may be kind of a metaphoric way to put it.

So we no longer have that.

and there was a slight increase in the operating budget of $200,000 that offset that a little bit, right?

So that increased temporarily for a couple of years.

One final piece of good news, our tax relief for the elderly and disabled veterans has gone up by almost 40% and that's our effort to help relieve that burden for folks and we may be able to expand it further then because we're keeping those vulnerable people in mind.

But yeah, those two things jumped out at me as well.

And so I think that speaks a lot to the budget that the city manager and the finance director

I'm going to end on one thing that I really wanted to say out loud is the best thing that we can do besides provide services

And so I appreciate the work, but we're going to always, always, and we should take care of our people.

Mayor, if you wouldn't mind because I think whether it's your comments about the budget that's being proposed or the comments about the use of the Quill Museum

So I appreciate the comments, but I cannot take credit.

And I think it's really critical for us to continue that.

Adam, is this going to be quick?

And I'll try to answer any questions from my house.

Madam Mayor, I move that we accept the Planning Commission Annual Report 2024 as presented by staff.

Any discussion?

How are you?

I'm doing well.

I was watching the whole meeting.

Can I see the presentation from here?

Mr. Jackson, if you wouldn't mind starting with some introductions including the folks on the screen.

I knew it was from date.

Good evening, everyone.

Thank you.

I can approach one if you want to.

But here you are telling us now that's not the idea and will encourage us to approve more housing projects.

But school families with school-aged children are making those choices it seems.

Absolutely, and I can just give an example and something that really stood out to me in doing this research.

That's pretty astounding.

What year?

What do you say about migration?

Like internal will be from other states, external from overseas?

I think zooming out to the total population perspective, it seems like signs point in that direction that the international migration played a considerable role in the population growth.

Kind of the same thing to me anyway.

It's difficult.

Take into account, you know what we might project is reduction Yeah, I appreciate you saying

It's really difficult now to say where we think migration will go.

migration makes a much bigger difference than housing.

I also noticed what you said about that families with small children tend to live in the older housing

So with the push towards affordable housing for working families, that's kind of a hard goal to pursue given the cost constraints like we were talking about earlier.

A townhouse that was built in the 1980s, I mentioned that earlier, probably the rent is lower than a townhouse that was built in 2012.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

So knowing where that growth is is really important but as I've looked through the charts you had, K5 saw our biggest decline generally in those groupings.

Tenth graders are out in two years and so on.

Would we see something like that in your numbers if it were to happen?

Well, I think what you're saying is

See if you can identify impact there in the equation.

Yeah, there is a really careful consideration and sort of like, yeah, we're testing how enrollment would react to these 1300 units, but we're doing that in a really methodical way, so we're not saying, so we're more comfortable with that, I think, 6% growth figure, rather than getting like a 10% growth figure just by smashing a bunch of numbers together.

Absolutely, yeah.

The school board, the school staff I guess it is sends us their estimate and it's for example I think for Bluestone they were saying that would be 400 new students and you're saying more likely 85?

Okay, less than 200 units.

So the mix of each phase is really different, which would give a different yield based on the models you have here, you know?

So it's projected on bluestones or 40 heights?

Bluestone.

Bluestone, okay.

My pleasure to be here.

More data to work with here, right?

Come on, Larry.

You can't get me up here, passing out.

So you can take a nap.

Any questions?

Okay, we need a vote.

Second one this is we usually come every year about this time with some grants and

Any questions?

Any discussion?

Roll call please Pam.

Mayor Reed.

If anyone wishes to speak, please state your name and address and you'll have five minutes.

I never shut up.

Well, you only got one more minute, so you're good.

Well, like I said, I mean, here's a copy of the letter that, you know, was sent to Christopher Brown.

I can grab that later for you, that's okay.

So I'm going to tell you what I want you to do.

So give me everything that you want to give me.

I mean that's, like I said, that's tough.

So I'm going to give you my card that has my email address and you can go by that, okay?

For a guy in a wheelchair.

Oh.

And I'll give you her card.

This is just one of the pictures.

Sure.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

And I would like to at least let you hear from us directly how things are going.

All right, we'll close public comment.