Board of Supervisors Meeting   9/23/2025

Did I tell you to remember to stay true?

He pulled it over, he said, he didn't want his money down, he said, Greg Charles Larson was a stranger.

He was still living there.

Guy had to pull the wings down.

He said, yeah.

He said, registration from the house office.

He said, what did you start?

So the guy said, well, I want to know why he stopped.

He said, you need to stop this.

Stop, stop, go back.

He said, I said, how, how do I know why he stopped?

I was going real, real slow.

He said, you need to step into the hospital.

He said, you need to step into the hospital.

He said, you need to step into the hospital.

No problem.

I was here to bring it back up a little bit.

Been there and done that one.

So this presentation is on well development for Greene County.

Okay, we're going to talk about wells for public water systems.

Some of the benefits of wells for public water systems.

That'll work.

Talking about diversified water supply.

You want to click them?

I went the wrong way.

I'm going the wrong way.

As far as enhancing water security, it does allow for a backup water supply when compared to surface water.

It supplements water supplies during peak demand periods.

is a strategic asset for supply management.

Some of the disadvantages, Greene County has a geology that's great at rock and for the most part you're looking for cracks inside those formations.

to pump the water out of the cracks.

As far as proximity to the existing water distribution system, the well needs to be somewhere within the general proximity of the existing water system where you're going to end up running long water lines from the well to get it to the water distribution facility.

Also, these wells are running on three-phase power.

The power in your house is single-phase.

So you need to be in an area that does use three-phage power, because it uses so much more power than a smaller well system.

You need land ownership.

So when you go looking for well sites, the issue of land ownership is a big element.

And we have found in Greene County, it provides insufficient capacity to support the growth for the future due to the relative low well

yields that we have found in the county, and I'll go into that more in a minute.

Next slide.

We're gonna talk about well number one.

That was the picture that was on the front page.

This well is located in Ruckersville right off of 29.

It was drilled in 2007.

It's got an eight inch diameter steel casing.

It's 242 feet deep.

It produces a well yield of 60 gallons per minute.

It has a seven and a half horsepower pump in it.

As far as chemical addition, the facility is set up for soda ash addition for pH control, chlorination for disinfection, corrosion inhibitors so the pipes don't corrode.

The actual well facility was constructed in 2009 and the construction cost for that facility was approximately $500,000.

Next slide.

As far as operation of well number one, its capacity of 60 gallons a minute is good for what we would call peak shaving.

If you have a peak day where it's hot outside, everybody's watering their grass and demands high at the water plant.

Turning this well on to help take the edge off that top peak is a good operational plan.

Running the well approximately 60% of the time will prolong the longevity of the well.

If you pump a well continuously, 24-7, the flows typically will reduce over time based on the volume of water in the aquifer.

You can in fact pump it dry if you pump it long enough.

So we got to pump it for periods of time and then stop it and let the water recharge back into the well.

Next slide.

So we have drilled a second well at number two that's located at the county park.

This well was drilled in 2009.

It too has an eight inch diameter steel casing.

This one's a lot deeper, 640 feet deep.

It has 80 gallons a minute with a 15 horsepower pump.

The reason the pump's horsepower gets so much bigger is because it's got to pump it from a depth of 640 feet so it's doing a big vertical lift.

So again, 15 horsepower pumps need three phases.

They won't operate in the same phase.

This well has been designed and approved by the health department for construction and the chemical feed facilities with chlorination and corrosion control.

And I think we'd probably add

Corrosion.

Well, it had soda ash in it, and I think we'd add corrosion control to it as well.

This particular well is located off of 33, so it would take approximately 1100 feet of six inch water line to connect it to the water system.

And because of that, and the cost of the construction of the facility for the well, we estimated construction cost of a million dollars to get that hooked up.

Next slide.

So we went through a program back in the day, somewhere since 2006 to 2009, looking for wells.

And we drilled those two, well number one and two.

We drilled several others.

We did one at the water plant, had this great idea that we could find water at the water plant side Rapidan River and pump it straight into the water plant.

That just made too much sense.

So we went all the way to 900 feet and we got three gallons a minute.

So that well just did not do the job.

We did two targets at Prady Creek.

One of them did 26 gallons a minute.

The other one did nothing.

And we didn't own the property on those wells anyway.

We did two targets at Ruckersville Elementary with no success.

One target at the bottom of the Park County Park.

And you would think at the bottom of the hill you'd find water.

We did not find it.

That well was right beside the pond that's on the park and it was not watering that well.

went to the top of the hill where the old oak tree was and got 80 ounces a minute.

Don't ask me how that works.

We also drilled two targets near Stanardsville with no success in those either.

So out of that 10 holes, we got two successful wells out of it.

We were looking at that time at 25 gallons a minute as an absolute minimum, but it also is a function of how far you got to go to get that 25.

If it was right beside the water system, I'd say 25 would make some sense.

There is a standard, Virginia Department of Health standard, that's listed there for the design of public water wells.

It's a little different than private water wells.

A minimum requirement for a public water well is called Class 2B, which means that it's got 50 feet of casing minimum, and it's grouted so that it doesn't allow for any intrusion of groundwater.

They also require a 48-hour pump test, and the purpose of that pump test is to identify the flow capacity.

So you pump it for 48 hours and try to figure out

where it reaches a steady situation where the water level's not madly dropping while you're pumping at that particular rate.

So that's a standard that goes with that.

One thing you might need to consider other than where the location of water distribution is, you need to be careful about affecting other people's wells.

I'll say private wells.

I would not put one of these near a private well facility because you're liable to start sucking the water out of the ground table.

Water table and all of a sudden you got trial wells in private systems.

Because a lot of the private systems may be shallower than this, so we can pump it deeper.

We can make the water draw down deeper than what might be in their wells.

Also, and I mentioned the Stanardsville, we looked at two targets in Stanardsville.

If there's a stream in the way, you got to get over the creek.

So I was reefed

Researching some of our files, we've applied for a core permit to get across the creek so we could actually drill those wells.

And we also need to minimize potential for wetlands.

Of course, you're going to want to look for wet areas, right?

And you're going to run into those things when you try to do that.

Next slide.

So when you're looking for targets, land availability is a big one.

If the land isn't belonging to the county and somebody's not willing to give it to you, you're in the market of purchasing the land.

We did run into some folks that wanted you to pay for the water itself, which is a non-starter.

Again, approximately to the water distribution system as well as three-phase power.

We typically do a hydrogeologic evaluation

When we're looking for targets, we did fracture trace analysis, which is a standard photographic method of trying to find cracks in rock.

They also did, for well number one, they did electro resistivity testing where they put wires on the ground and try to figure out electromagnetic flux.

And they were absolutely positive there was water at that location.

But they did it in the two pretty Greek wells and didn't do so well with that.

So it's still, any way you look at it, a shot in the dark when you go looking for it.

That's loud.

So the county does have other potential target locations, most specifically at the reservoir site.

Remembered from looking at some files that we did do a fracture tracing analysis at that site.

And there were a couple of targets identified as potentials there.

As you all know, the property is owned by the county, which makes it a good place to put a well.

We would want to select a location which is understood that is not impacted by the reservoir itself, but there are some outlying areas around that could be considered for well locations.

So our recommendations are to start a well, number one, to develop some experience in track record with the well.

I'd like to run it a while, see how it responds on a longer basis.

Does it recharge itself?

Does it not recharge itself?

That type of thing.

That well was permitted through the health department at one time, and they took it out of the permit, I believe, by request.

We have requested them to put it back in the permit.

I'm told by the health department

revision is forthcoming.

We also recommend constructing well number two at the park.

Those plans were approved by the health department.

We'll have to resubmit them to get re-approval.

But our Track Act record with getting re-approvals of late is about two, four weeks.

Somewhere like that is all they're doing.

and developed well number three at the reservoir site is another recommendation if needed.

I have one brought up and I know they do it for oil and I know they've done it for fracking.

I mean, you take the stone core down there, because it shook out my house and shakes everything around.

I know it's caused a lot of wells to go dry in Locust Lane when they first started.

but they're going deeper and deeper and I see the pipeline coming out of that boat that big about 24 hours a day.

In my experience I've seen, so the most water you ever get out of the well is the day you turn it on.

So over time they start decreasing in capacity because the soils migrate towards the hole and eventually it starts plugging the thing up.

I've seen contractors that track wells to try to re-energize the well to shake up the geology that's kind of packed up against the well.

That's where I've seen it used the most in well technology.

Like that one is 640 feet?

I was just wondering how long from the top where the water level is to the bottom.

I mean, how far would they put the pipe down in there?

Because I know they're not putting no steel casing 640 feet.

I'll have to go back and look at that, but I think the pump itself is down 300, 400 feet somewhere in there.

Again, it would be a pump test you'd have to participate in.

How well was pump tested?

And we do have the recharge information on it, but until you run it for a while, you're not going to know

You know, I'll use tacked wallpaper just because I got knowledge of that one.

They run, they have a water plan also.

They run their wells at night and turn them off in the morning.

That way their tanks are full.

And so then they run off the surface water during the day, particularly during periods when the reservoir is going down because they get in trouble with that.

They run the wells harder when they do that.

But by doing that, they're letting them recharge half the time.

And that works well.

If you're in a coastal plain water, where you're near the coast and you've got ocean intrusion and that type of thing, you can pump them longer or harder.

But areas like this that are just cracks in rocks, it's a lot more difficult.

I think Coors has got a 3,000-gallon metal well.

It's huge.

Because it's limestone formations.

It's an old one.

They said it was from the 50s and it's crazy water.

And it seems to keep coming.

You know we met with the health department out there early summer and I thought that permit was going to come right away but he must be a busy fellow so he hasn't given me the permit.

He verbally told me to turn it on but I don't think that's right.

I think we're ready as soon as we get that permit.

So he emailed me yesterday and said he's working on it and we should have it shortly.

I believe him.

Can't get the parts.

A health department standard for, let's say you're designing a subdivision and you're going to use a well.

So their standard is half a gallon a minute per house.

And if you drilled a well for your house and all I told you you had was a half a gallon a minute, you'd be worried about that.

So that's, that's, that is not, but so conservative in my book.

120, okay.

Excuse me, 160.

I'm just... I did my math right.

But here's the problem with that, Steve.

Can you run it 24-7?

Right.

Because you can't.

No.

So it's sort of half a gallon a minute.

So there are standards.

The health department was at one time lobbying to make that standard one gallon a minute per house.

and I noticed that Culpeper County passed that standard.

So in that county, it's got to be one because they were trying to get more conservative with that.

The other part of that is if you have 50 houses, the health department's requirement is you got to have two wells so that if one goes dry, you got another one.

So it's not a one for one, half a gallon a minute.

You can build 50, 100 houses exactly because

You're going to need that second well and you hope it doesn't go dry.

And they weren't a pump tester and all that nonsense.

And it could, it can putter out.

I'm working on one in Carolina County.

It flat went dry.

He told me today he's not sure if it's ever coming back.

In operation.

So you better have more wells than that.

Right.

Mr. Roy, we use 675,000 gallons per day on average in the county.

We use 675,000 gallons per day on average in the county.

So these two wells would produce 200,000 gallons per day at that maximum capacity.

Right now, the 675 is servicing 3,000 homes plus businesses.

So an EDU in Greene County is 200 gallons per customer.

That is the way y'all do billings and that's the way you sell EDUs.

So if you've got a water plant that's one MGD,

It's 200 divided by that, which is 5,000.

But that's for the peak day.

You got to remember that the average day might be 0.6, but you get peak days are pushing one.

Correct.

Not with those two little wells.

So it's half a gallon a minute.

So it's 100.

But then how do you square that?

I mean, I know you came up with that calculation, but then the reality is our water system has 3,000 plus homes, plus businesses, and we use on average about 675.

It has gone above the peak of the 0.9

three, four weeks a year.

Because again, I'm reading health department regulations to you, wells are at half a gallon a minute per customer.

The county standard for residential is 200 gallons per day per house.

And if you do a million gallons, which is the capacity of that plant,

On a peak day, that equals 2,500 homes.

Let's do that again.

Million gallons a day is 700 divided by, let's see, maybe calculator.

The thing with the wheels are mainly gonna be for backup

peak days for backup.

So God forbid if the Rapper Dam goes completely dry and no water, then we're really in trouble.

But these are mainly for backup for peak days to keep us from getting in trouble.

So the whole thing with the reservoir is full.

That's what my understanding of the, for the wealth.

They're not really there to sustain the houses of the business.

That's what we think.

We think it's a peak share.

That's right.

Complete business.

So your current plant's a million gallons a day at 200 gallons per day per customer.

That's 5,000 customers, but that's a peak, that's a peak number.

So you got to cut that in half.

So that existing water plant is good for 2,500 customers.

So I'm suggesting these two wells are good for 100 and 120.

20 is 220 customers.

Why the disparity between that is the way the health department looks at the criteria.

Surface water wells are rated differently than groundwater wells.

I think it's because they're being conservative.

It's kind of like

When you do a septic tank system for your house, they say you got to size your drain field for 350 gallons per day, per house.

Why?

Not because you produce 350 gallons per day per house, but because it's a conservative number for designing drain fields.

It's just numerical criteria that's come through the airwaves over time.

based on their experience with the things they're trying to regulate.

That's the answer.

So you can't really take surface water criteria and apply it to groundwater because the standards don't bolt up very well.

And I think it's because of some of the things we just said that groundwater where I was, yeah, you've got 60 gallons a minute, but is it 60 gallons a minute, 24 seven?

It's not.

So they de-rate it because of that.

So well, number one is 60 gallons a minute, which is 120 homes by their standards.

And well, number two is 80 gallons a minute, which is 160 homes.

And when you're saying that they're a million dollars, that's because that's to operate them and get them connected to the system.

The actual drilling, I talked to a company that can drill test wells at least for 24,000.

That was our experience with that, but

300 homes.

So Caroline County, who I do work for, they have their entire water supply of wells.

I've been working on their well system probably 20 years.

And I talked to Joey two days ago.

He just took bids on drilling eight inch diameter wells, and they were 400 feet deep.

And the bid per well to drill them is

$50,000 to drill the well and $25,000 to pump the well.

So they're doing, it's $75,000 per well just to drill it and pump test it to see if it works.

And he pointed out to me, it's $50,000 whether there's water in it or not.

So if you drill, if you dry holes, you're spending a lot of money.

So that's straight off the press of what he's doing with his bids.

So the difference between drilling a 400 foot deep well, class 2B, 8 inch diameter is a little different, Kat, than drilling a residential well, I think.

You can.

But you know, every time I talk to a well driller about that, and we try bidding test wells, they want to bid the other ones so they don't have to do it twice.

So they can physically put the bit in the ground truthfully up by their own expense both ways.

So there's an argument that if you drill and test wells, then you're going to pay for the well twice because you can drill the hole twice.

But the second time you drill it, it's 100% yield, right?

That's the idea.

That's why you would do the less expensive one.

And then what you're doing is you're earmarking.

You're saying, OK, this one that we're going to drill is going to give us 80 or 100.

I get that.

So yeah, there's a substantial savings in doing that.

Isn't there also a substantial savings every year that you operate well water compared to processing surface water for the amount of treatment that's required for... Depends on the water.

Depends on the water.

I'm going to continue to discuss Caroline County because it's a good example.

They got iron and manganese in their water.

So when you start putting in green sand filters to get the iron and manganese out,

I think that the treatment part of that is a million dollars to actually put it together.

And then you're using more chemicals, more backwash.

And the thing Joey pointed out to me that reminded me of, you need a place to take, send the wastewater.

So if this facility is anywhere other than near your sanitary sewer, you got a real problem with that.

These green sand filters need to be backcharged, backwashed.

And I will point out just for the record, well, number one,

does have iron and manganese in it.

And that's one of the reasons we need to operate it for a while to see how that goes.

And there are some chemicals we can add to it to help with that.

But if we end up in the green sand filter market, you can spend an awful lot of money on groundwater wells.

I've also done wells in other places.

Just by the way, I've done a lot of wells in my life.

So if you go to Woodbridge, that area, they got radite in the water.

and you may not want to drink water laden with the radon so we treat that to try to get it below the standards and that was extremely expensive to do that and we did that in a section 8 housing area because it was their only source of water.

so yeah there's just and sometimes can wells be cheap if they get good quality water with a high yield absolutely yes sir they do but it's it's not a slam dunk it's it's fraught with issues uh see i've treated water it's got radium in it and of course salinity wells have salinity our friends in carolina have got a thousand gallon minute well that's got

1,100 parts of salinity in it.

Why?

Because Caroline used to be part of the ocean, come to find out.

So there's salt in the water.

Jackpot.

And there's salt in all that water, some of it higher concentration than others.

So what are they doing?

Caroline's a pretty good test case, and I shouldn't be talking about them, but I will.

Everything that's been done in the county over time has been supported with wells.

And I'm told the groundwater table in Caroline County has dropped 70 to 100 feet since they started doing that, the water table countywide.

I heard that from DEQ.

And what is the county trying to do right now?

They're trying to get a raw water intake and build a water treatment facility.

I don't have it on top of my head, but

It's not too far off from Greene.

We represent Caroline.

Right.

They have a lot of truck drivers.

They use a lot of water.

It's a big county, but it's sparse.

I have something to say that involves water, but it's not hypothetical either.

Sometimes I feel like we're always behind the ball because look at the Romans.

I've been to Israel.

They built aqueducts.

back then.

And here, I mean, I know they do them in New York, you know, got all the fresh water in the world up by the lakes.

But and then like California, it probably wouldn't even exist in the valley if it hadn't been for the heavy snowfalls in the aquifers that they have coming down.

I don't know why, because at some point in time,

The well's going to dry up because people now, I mean, you see sinkholes all the time.

Oh, sinkhole.

I don't know.

Maybe that's just me.

I mean, when I was at Niagara Falls, they take a million gallons per second to run the hydro plant.

It didn't seem like it stopped it from flowing.

And that's all fresh water.

That's a lot of water.

Well, I guess I think Tim's right on.

I mean, I'm trying to quantify cost, I guess, by seeing what the yield is versus running out of water.

Like, forget that.

That's bad.

But I mean, trying to quantify some costs to say, if we do go to our property, let's say for well number three, and we drill 10 dry holes,

Like, what are we out, you know, or maybe we hit one out of 10.

Like, what's the net cost effect of that?

That's kind of where I'm trying to go in my head.

But two-thirds of the county's houses are on well, aren't they?

Yeah.

All I can speak to is the public side because I've been helping with public water wells.

And his mission right now is about once a year, we better have another well or they're going to run out.

That's where they are right now.

We do have to drill 10 wells.

I think the plan is to develop the two as we build and then see what happens.

I would think that's the plan to protect ourselves on the short term.

We've got the one coming on.

The other one's quite pricey, but is it?

Well, one good thing about well number two is near Stanardsville.

Yeah.

So it gives a backup to Stanardsville area.

All right.

Other questions?

We know they're dug and they're producing water.

Right.

They've already been tested.

Yeah, so if you had three out of 10, why not drill another five?

And if you get a yield, then you go with a larger eight inch drill.

And if you get no yield, you stop.

You don't have to go out 10.

Statistically, what's going to happen is you're going to say, OK, this is just not going to yield like it did before.

But the quote I got down to 900 feet with a casing was $24,000 from a local drill.

So to me, I think you devote whatever sum you want, whether it's $100,000 considering we're about to do a $475,000 appropriation for contract review, I would say that we try to drill five.

What's the criteria for drilling?

I mean, as far as vocal, we don't know probably who you're talking about.

Absolutely.

I mean, it's supply and demand of work, right?

They think there are some logistical issues, though, aren't they, on the reservoir site at the moment?

I guess the thing to do is to get well number two, go in and then once the clearing and all starts on our site and you actually know where the hole is because you don't want to be dribbling into that.

I mean it's possible we can do that.

I think we should do it on an as-need basis though because we know they're temporary, right?

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, it has enough.

I think the biggest downside of the reservoir is it doesn't have three-phase power.

Yeah, but there's... That's expensive.

How much water is reclaimed from the sewage treatment plant?

Do you have any idea?

Reclaimed for what purpose?

Well, it runs back in the river.

I know that much.

How much is coming out of the wastewater plant?

Is that your question?

Yeah.

300,000 maybe, 200 to 300,000.

Yeah, well, I mean, they're doing space.

I mean, it costs a little bit of water.

All right.

Other questions?

What's the board's plan?

I think to get the two we've got, know that our producer will order to get them in operation and it's on the county land if we can get some kind of survey out and see what would yield, you know, hey this show is good you don't have to go 100 feet or you're gonna have to go 400 feet over here try to get a

I've heard of that.

And I think Buggs Beach was pushing Beach.

And then, yeah, sure.

If we can throw some cheap holes and see what we got.

Great.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. White.

All right.

So we're done early with the workshop.

So how about we take a break?

15 minutes.

Well, let's just do that then.

Ms.

I'm supportive of student privacy with big highly desires to discuss employees being involved in matters.

Discussion, consideration, or interviews of prospective candidates for employment assignment, appointment promotion, performance demotion, salaries displaying a resignation of specific public officers, appointees, or employees of any public body concerning the Jefferson Area Authority of Aging.

discussion concerning prospective business of the expansion of the existing business or industry where no previous announcement has been made of the businesses or industry's interest in locating or expanding its facilities in the community.

OK.

So moved.

Here we have a motion and a second to enter precession.

Roll call vote.

Mr. Lamb?

Aye.

Mr. Durrer?

Aye.

Mr. Goolsby?

Aye.

Mr. McGuigan?

Aye.

You're out of business.

Every year it's like $1.00 bucks you got to update.

I think they do that.

Tim, you got to update what?

Every year to two years, I got to update that snap-on computer.

That's why you see a little thing that pops up and retires.

That's right.

I finally paid it off the day I stopped.

It's funny, but it's not funny, you know.

There's even worse, because I don't think you can buy any of that.

Well Honda used to be the same way.

Honda never released their generic code you get.

Really?

Yeah.

When did they start?

No, man, forget it, man.

How many connections are there?

How many fittings are there?

I mean, it's just, it's crazy.

You'd have to go get an Alice Chum or you got to go get a John Deal or International.

Now it's European stuff.

You got, you know, different.

It's crazy.

It's awesome.

I know a guy that makes those hoses and he's got a hundred grand to fix, to make the right hoses.

Two minutes and counting.

Two minutes.

I'm going to put air conditioning in here in about three weeks.

Three weeks we're going to have air conditioning, cold, we'll have air conditioning.

It's going to turn cold.

Absolutely.

I'll take it.

Beans and bananas, that green is porous.

We don't have any presentations.

Do you have a motion to come into open session?

So do I. Do I have a second?

Second.

Okay, we have a motion and a second.

Roll call vote.

Mr. Lamb.

Aye.

Mr. Durrer.

Mr. McGuigan.

Aye.

Mr. Goolsby.

Aye.

And the chair votes aye.

Do all members certify that only public business matters lawfully exempted from the open meeting requirement and only such matters as identified by the motion to enter into closed meeting were discussed?

Roll call vote, Mr. Lamb.

Aye, certified.

Mr. Goolsby.

Aye, certified.

Mr. McGuigan.

Aye, certified.

And the chair certifies.

Yes, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion to appoint Linda Copeland to the Java Advisory Council to fill the unexpired term of Jeff Ernie, which will expire on August 31, 2026.

OK, we have a motion and a second.

Roll call vote.

Mr. McGuigan?

Aye.

Goolsby?

Aye.

Ms.

Durrer?

Aye.

Mr. Lamb?

Aye.

And the Chair votes aye.

I'd like to welcome everyone to the meeting of the Greene County Board of Supervisors.

Second.

We have a motion and a second.

Roll call vote.

Mr. McGuigan.

Aye.

Mr. Goolsby.

Aye.

Ms.

Durrer.

Aye.

Mr. Lamb.

Aye.

And the chair votes aye.

Recognitions.

First, we have a resolution of appreciation for the Green Care Clinic.

I would like to read the resolution first and then get a motion to approve it.

Whereas GreenCare Clinic is a nonprofit organization dedicated to providing free health care to residents of Greene County who are uninsured and whose income is below 300% of the federal poverty level.

And whereas the clinic offers treatment of acute health conditions, comprehensive chronic illness, care, clinical and diagnostic testing, non-narcotic prescription pharmacy services due in part

to a collaboration with Greene Pharmacy, Health Education, and Lifestyle Change Support, including smoking cessation and counseling, behavioral health counseling due to a partnership with the Virginia Telemental Health Initiative, and referrals to the University of Virginia and Sentara-Martha Jefferson hospitals.

as well as the Charlottesville Free Clinic.

And whereas the clinic runs a community medical supply closet that accepts donations of durable medical supplies and donates them back to the community for free.

And whereas the clinic depends on volunteers' donations and grants to conduct its operations and without community support such services would be greatly diminished.

And whereas the residents of Greene County benefit directly from the clinic's efforts to improve health, reduce barriers to healthcare access,

and promote health education, including Better Together, a chronic disease management support group and ongoing care.

And whereas the board acknowledges the recent grant from Sentara Cares, which will expand access to critical preventive cancer screenings for uninsured Greene County residents.

and whereas GreenCare Clinic has successfully hosted free health and wellness events and fairs, bringing together numerous health and wellness organizations, thereby increasing community outreach, awareness and preventative care.

And now, therefore, be it resolved by the Greene County Board of Supervisors on this 23rd day of September 25, that the Board hereby expresses its deepest appreciation at GreenCare Clinic for its outstanding service and dedication.

OK.

And I second.

All right.

We have a motion and a second to adopt the resolution.

Roll call vote.

Mr. McGuigan.

Aye.

Mr. Goolsby.

Aye.

Mr. Lamb.

Aye.

Ms.

Durrer.

Aye.

Chair votes aye.

And let's get out of here.

Hey, you're emeritus.

Come on down.

I'm glad to get up here.

You're still on.

I think that deserves.

OK, you got it.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for coming.

Very good.

Okay, number nine matters from the public.

Ms.

Kelly.

Thank you.

Elizabeth Delis Paddell.

All right, because I have this problem my whole life.

Yeah, yeah, I understand.

Got you.

Thank you.

Okay, so good evening.

Therefore, it is an issue for all of us.

Through my experience, I've come to learn that I'm nowhere close to being alone in the treatment of Tiny Paul's, a store located in Ruckersville, Virginia.

In May of 2024, I purchased a puppy from this location.

Upon bringing him home, he immediately vomited on my floor.

I assumed it was car sickness.

As the days went on, that continued, and his breathing became so labored at one point, the edges of his rib cage were curling outward.

It felt cruel to keep him alive.

I considered having him humanely euthanized.

To bring attention to funds, this wasn't just a few hundred dollars.

This was nearly $10,000 between purchase price and necessary medical attention.

After 13 visits to the vet, he had a diagnosis and was finally feeling well enough to thrive as well as he could.

Forever he will suffer, though, through an untreatable hereditary disease that will rob him early of a full life.

For six months I contacted Tiny Paws only to be completely ignored after providing all required documentation at their end.

Feel free to review Better Business Bureau, Google Reviews, Reddit, etc.

for similar complaints.

So we fast forward to November.

My attorney's demand letter finally forced them to acknowledge my concerns.

After this whole ordeal, I thought it was just my own, I found out several county residents have run into the same issue.

That being a sick puppy right from the beginning only to get the cold shoulder.

Many will have ongoing health issues, behavioral issues,

and it's all due to the secrets that are held behind Tiny Paul stores.

I'm here today to share my concerns for my fellow consumers.

I'm also here to graciously ask that you review the store within our county and do the right thing by revoking their operation license.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Welcome.

Good evening.

Elizabeth's case is not uncommon.

In recent weeks I have

encountered several people eager to share with me their experiences with the Tiny Paws Pet Store.

Some have shared their experiences in response to my public social media posts.

One person wrote, I'm embarrassed to say I bought a puppy from them almost three years ago.

She had multiple seizures for months.

Owners said he would help with vet bills.

He seemed concerned.

When I emailed one of the bills to him, I never heard back from him again.

I am thankful that she seems to be okay now.

I will never go there again.

Disgusting place.

Glass enclosures were filthy.

Another person wrote, our puppy has had a progressive neurological issue that we are currently investigating.

I hope that place is put out of business.

Once we are able financially, we will be contacting a lawyer.

The issue is affecting our puppy's ability to use his front legs.

And another person wrote, my best friend and I got a puppy from there once and never again.

We had to put her down at the ripe age of one for the simple fact of poor breeding.

She was diagnosed with kidney disease at eight months old.

Shut it down.

These cases are common not only at tiny paws, but at pet stores across the country.

In a recent lawsuit filed against puppy mill and pest store operators in California, the Animal Legal Defense Fund documented how dogs bred at puppy mills commonly suffer from genetic and hereditary conditions and deadly diseases.

The dogs at Tiny Paws come from puppy mills.

Puppy mills are facilities where operators breed dogs for profit and have dozens, and in some cases, hundreds of dogs.

When a dog is one of hundreds or one of dozens, how can that dog get the veterinary care and attention the dog needs?

At your June 10th meeting, I mentioned that suppliers who provide dogs at Tiny Paws have been cited for inadequate veterinary care by the USDA and by state agencies.

And this concern about the health of the dogs is only part of the reason why we should ban the sale of animals at pet stores.

We have an overpopulation problem.

In 2023, more than 9,800 dogs and cats were killed at Virginia shelters.

Right now, adoptable dogs of every size, personality, and age are waiting for their forever homes at stress shelters across central Virginia.

Yet, here we are serving the puppy mill pipeline in Greene County.

Let's ban it from the county, just like Fauquier County did in 2021, just like more than 450 counties and cities across the country have.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Absolutely.

Anybody joining us on Zoom and you would like to address the board from the public, please raise your hand feature and we'll give you a moment to find that.

Thank you sir.

Anybody else like to speak?

Okay, we will end matters from the public and we'll go to a public hearing.

This is a public hearing to consider an ordinance revision to amend Chapter 38, Articles 3 and 4 of the Code of Virginia to bring the local ordinance into compliance with updated state laws and regulations.

Welcome, sir.

Thank you.

Good evening, Mr. Chairman and members of the board.

I'm here tonight presenting the ordinance revision that will update the county regulations to come into compliance

with the Virginia Erosion Control Stormwater Management Act set forth by the General Assembly.

The ordinance has been reviewed by Ms.

Kemp and is in compliance with state code.

I'm available to answer any questions the board may have.

Okay.

We probably will have some questions.

Okay.

Thank you.

This is a public hearing.

I would like to open it up to the public for comment.

No one has signed up for the public hearing.

Once again, any of those joining us online, if you would like to address the board, please use the raise your hand feature to indicate that you'd like to speak.

We will close the public hearing and open it up to the Board of Supervisors for discussion.

We'd like to go first.

I think what I read was is that, in essence, nothing's changed.

It just merges the two together to bring it into state compliance, is what I think I read.

Ready for a motion, if you all have it.

OK, we have a motion in the second.

Roll call vote.

Mr. Lamb?

Aye.

Mr. Durrer?

Aye.

Mr. Goolsby?

Aye.

Mr. McGuigan?

Aye.

And Chair Rhoads, aye.

Thank you, Mr. Leek.

Thank you.

Do not have presentations.

Number 12, consent agenda.

I had one question.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

So we'll pull E out.

We have a motion and a second to approve the consent agenda minus E. Roll call vote.

Ms.

Goolsby?

Aye.

Mr. Lamb?

Aye.

Ms.

Okay, what's your concerns with feet?

The only question I had is considering we're spending a half a million dollars on this item whether or not it was open for bids for other architectural or engineering firms.

Ms.

Yeah, I understand exactly.

The fact of the matter is this isn't a new design.

Portions of this design have been in place for many years, literally many years.

WW Associates has done a lot of the designs already for enlarging pump stations, building the new pump station to reroute the flow from the Stanardsville wastewater treatment plant.

They'd have to start scratch and they would have to begin the process all over again.

I've been in this business a long time and I approved both sides of the table, both in local government and for the consulting firms.

They all charge about the same price and to pay for half of the design that's already been done didn't make sense even to go through that process.

We're also under a tight time frame too is that we're under order from the state to close the Stanardsville wastewater treatment plant at the end of 2027.

That includes from this point forward the design and the construction.

and it'll be tight or will be mostly done with construction tasks for an extension of time just the way it's looking.

So to take the time out, to take another four months or so to go through the process when we know the answer by knowing the business, I reviewed their proposal.

But we've known about the need to shut down the wastewater treatment plant for many, many years.

No, that's not quite true.

I'm not, as far as history, the consent order from this, I'm sorry, it's not a consent order, but a lot of people thought it wasn't.

In the last permit, which was just a couple of years ago, they put in the permit that they would not renew the permit past the end of 2027.

And they also gave us a low interest loan

for the work, both design and construction.

So as far as knowing for years, I can't speak.

This is the same.

Do I have a second?

I second.

Mr. McGuigan.

I'm gonna vote no and the reason why is I brought this up before I think there is a conflict of interest when you have the county engineer also in charge of your projects also awarding contracts in this particular instance to himself.

So your vote is no?

Yes.

Mr. Durrer?

Aye.

Mr. Lamb?

Aye.

And the chair votes aye.

Number 13, action items.

Resolution to allow county administrator execute grant application for the Department of Conservation and Recreation of Virginia Community Flood Preparedness Fund for the development of a county-wide resiliency plan.

Ms.

So the Community Flood Preparedness Fund was established to provide support for regions and localities across Virginia to reduce the impact of flooding.

As we're all aware, there are specific areas of our county that are more susceptible to damage when we have heavy rains that cause flooding.

To open funding channels for projects to mitigate the repeated damage from flooding, the county needs to create and adopt a resiliency plan.

This round of funding, we are requesting $125,000 for the creation of a county-wide resiliency plan.

The county will have to cover $31,250 in matching funds for this project.

However, this type of project, in-kind staff time, is allowable for the match versus cash.

Our planning and zoning staff will work with the Thomas Jefferson Planning District Commission to create the plan.

Once the specific sites are identified that need mitigation, the county can apply for funding for necessary studies to find the correct solutions from engineers.

Those funding streams are usually a 50-50 matching grant.

The Director of Planning, Emergency Manager, and myself are aware of at least two locations that we think should be studied along the Conway River and near our drinking water intake.

though the plan might identify others.

Even though in-kind match is allowable for this grant is still an obligation of county funds not budgeted for the use and outside my scope, so I'm here tonight to request permission to submit the grant.

We do have flooding problems.

Yes, I'm doing.

We have a motion and a second to proceed with the grant.

Application, roll call vote, Mr. Lamb.

Aye.

Ms.

Mr. Goolsby.

Aye.

Mr. McGuigan.

Aye.

And the Chair votes aye.

Thank you.

14, items for discussion.

Discussion of board priorities to include the Thomas Jefferson Planning District Commission legislative priorities for 2026.

Ms.

Yes, and in front of you and also posted online.

I tried to put all the ideas that I heard from you guys into different categories, land use consideration, quality of life considerations, affordability and infrastructure.

Who'd like to go first with their thoughts on this?

We can read them all.

For land use, we have land use control.

We sold the farms.

Land use control for data centers, land use control over accessory dwelling units, land use control over agritourism ordinances.

Quality of Life would be another heading.

State support for keeping our rural communities rural.

see land use considerations above option for school funding through the 1% sales tax, state funding of CSB and other social services needs to continue to be expanded to promote wellness and safety of our community, state funding to support rural fire suppression efforts for volunteers on affordability concern about unfunded mandates and our desire to diversify for financial resiliency as we have limited options for rent revenue generation, state support to address affordable housing concerns,

on infrastructure continued grants for critical infrastructure, particularly water and sewer, a strategy regarding energy production in Virginia and the impacts of too many data centers may require tax credits and a broader perspective in addressing the problem and the continuing to build out of broadband.

And what I'll do is, I just wanted to know, this is what we'll keep advocating for.

And then I'll crosswalk it once they get the bills out so you can see which bills match up against these priorities.

Yes.

And actually, I was going to save this for my

County Administrator Report.

But the regional meeting was last week.

I think it was Thursday that I went to.

It was regions 679.

And we had most of the two-hour meeting was talking about all these things.

And it was really interesting how very similar our concerns were.

Because the regions that were there were as far north as

and I was one of the first ones to go so I read my whole list and everyone's like yeah just let's all use that same list so it was it was applicable to a large amount of us which is good for VACo to hear because then they can say hey this many of our counties you know have the exact same concern.

Different counties had heat around like solar farms, which we don't have any applications ongoing for solar farms and things like that.

When I brought up the agritourism, which was packaged a little bit different under quality of life, but we talked about that.

Everybody had the same issue.

Affordability was a concern.

There was like different variations of it, depending on where you were in the state.

OK.

I think that's the mood of us, right?

And as we peel them back individually.

More and more, a lot of the real mechanics are dealing with the solar incidents and data centers and.

Whatever we need to get a hold on.

One of the things that stood out to me when I was making this list is these are not mutually exclusive things.

So solar relates back to the fact that we have this energy shortage.

What we don't want, if I could put one theme around the whole thing, is what we don't want is the state making all the decisions for us.

So there is a problem.

We don't have enough energy production in the country, let alone in the state.

But we don't need someone telling us, and therefore you will have solar farms, this, that, or the other thing.

So it's all the decisions that matter in the entire country kind of come down to a local decision.

What we need is a strategy that is inclusive of what everybody needs.

And if, you know, like maybe there's incentives that drive certain things over others.

and maybe there's places, and the market kind of helps with this.

So for example, one reason we don't have a lot of people beating our door down wanting to put solar farms in Greene is we don't have a lot of flat areas.

So we're not great for that.

So we're not a good fit in the market.

Yep, absolutely.

All right.

I do agree with the affordability and infrastructure for the concern about unfunded mandates.

I know the schools have a lot of those.

And actually, some of the localities

with the changes they made in the way they calculate how much money each locality gets for schools.

Because of the change they made, they saw a huge drop off.

For example, Bath County, who was there, was talking about how the calculation that was done for them considered them a wealthy county, whereas they're really not.

And so their schools lost so much money.

So some of them,

spoke more about some of those issues than us.

We didn't have a major reset in our calculation.

It's still a concern.

It's why it's on this list, but also devolution and the idea that you have a mandate, but then there's no money to actually do it.

And we don't have, I mean, that ties back into, we don't have options to just create new revenue.

We have to follow the categories that the state gives us.

So we're hamstring on both sides.

Everybody's asking, those are good questions.

You're asking the right questions.

Until Congress passes a budget, though, it's impossible to answer.

There are some things that we're thinking might be an issue, but there's not a lot of clarity.

Some things have come up to our attention as this might be an issue, but then it's like, no, no, it's resolved.

We found other money or it's now off the table.

So we're just kind of waiting for things to calm down and then we'll be able to give a more comprehensive report.

So it's making it hard for planning for the budget for leave it or not.

Thank you.

And so far, none of those have been told, we haven't been told they're going away.

There's certain grants and other things that are disappearing, but some of that basic money is either made up for by the state right now, which is in a good position fiscally,

or the bubble where the money is going away as it worked all the way through the system.

Okay.

Well, I'm sure we'll be discussing that in the next coming months.

Board liaison reports.

Anybody go first.

they're still trying to hash out everything with the agritourism and trying to get all that chopping down into layman's terms I would say to we all can sit down and still trying to figure out how we gonna deal with that in the future and stuff like that so that's that's what from the planning commission last group they're moving to

OK, well, I already talked about the Vaco Regional meeting.

The Clay Festival, which was this past weekend, was a huge success.

It was even more crowded than last year, at least on Saturday.

And I talked to a lot of vendors when I was volunteering on Sunday.

They were very happy.

So I guess a lot of Christmas shopping got done this past weekend.

So yay.

This is the time of year where there's a lot of really neat community events.

We've got the Fall Arts and Crafts Market is the fourth at the Giuseppe Center.

On October 11 is Tour de Greene.

It's a charity cycling event that supports Feeding Green.

The proceeds of it go to Feeding Green.

You can register for that online.

October 19th is the Green Care Clinic fundraiser.

We just tied them in earlier today.

With the resolution, that's going to be October 19th.

There's a five-year anniversary for EMS, believe it or not.

For those of you who may remember during COVID when we had to take that over, I wasn't here, but a lot of good work was done.

That five-year anniversary is going to be October 23rd from 2 to 7 p.m.

And October 25th is Oktoberfest in Stanardsville, so that's coming up as well.

Other items from the board?

I just had a question.

We've got chronic problems in the water system in Stanardsville, and last year we were looking at devoting $14 million in bond sales towards solving that problem.

That was also in our CIP supposedly for this year.

So what I would like to know is, who made that decision not to have that as a funding priority for these bonds that we're going to be issuing?

And when was that made?

Not who took it off, but basically what it was presented to us is this is what you have.

It wasn't presented that here are our priorities, which ones do we vote on?

So yes, the projects were funded.

That's a correct statement.

But there was no vote on whether or not to actually fund that individual project, which here in two had been considered critical.

And now we're not looking at it for four years.

Well, maybe.

So who made the decision to leave it off the agenda?

I think the board made a decision to fund the reservoir project with the original bond.

No, it was two.

We narrowed it down to two, just for the reservoir.

And then what we had said was that we will be discussing those other projects as they happen.

And we were going to see what we were going to get from the state money, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, to see how it worked.

But we wanted to really concentrate on the one project to make sure we get off to a good, healthy start economically.

You know what I mean?

Before we branch into other projects.

Wells were taken on this well, and that's why we had the well workshop today.

If you guys wanted to move forward with funding, you know, the well number one,

is we're just waiting for the permit.

So there's really no expense, no more money needed for that.

But to finish developing the other well, you guys would have to make a motion to tell me where you want me to get the money from and we'll do the well.

So in March of last year,

We had our presentation by Corey for Davenport.

And that was 14 of the 87 million we were going to borrow.

And now it's disappeared.

We bring it multiple times to the board.

You have directed us as a body, not any one individual to not keep bringing it forward.

So

We'll happily do whatever work you fund us to do.

It's not just the approval of it.

We need the money to do it.

So we'd be happy to do that.

And we're also still pursuing, as somebody mentioned two meetings ago when you voted, that we're pursuing other grants for that Stanardsville Town Water.

So yes, it is on the list of projects, but it's not funded.

but that having it on that list of projects on that CIP allows us to apply for grants and we'll find out in the spring if we're going to get money for the Stanardsville water project and then we can bring you back another proposal that either borrow more money or you know we got a grant for the majority of it or whatever we want to do.

So it's not gone.

There was just not a vote on it.

And like I said, last year, when we were looking at funding, that was priority number two, and now it's nowhere in any of our bonding cycles at all.

And that was the financial model that we were given.

It went through the whole rigmarole and then it just disappeared.

And I think the people in Stanardsville would like to have their board actually vote on.

Yes, it's a priority.

The priority today is to get this reservoir going.

So that's the immediate priority.

Obviously, those are important projects.

But we do one at a time because we don't want to overborrow.

We don't want to get in that situation immediately.

But it is something that's going to happen over time.

There are other stakeholders that could be involved in that.

And that's what we have to explore on the Stanardsville project.

What is the tiny ball situation with that?

How much can a county get involved with technically it's a business?

I would think that the state veterinarian's office holds a permit for them to exist.

And I would think that if the state veterinarian founded situations or reported to them those situations, that they would be the people to take their license away from them.

No, not by zoning, but we could research other ordinances to put more controls on it, and I can come back to you with that.

Be that.

Sounds good, I think we should.

Investigate that.

Do we have a second?

OK, we have a motion to second to adjourn.

Roll call vote Mr McGuigan.

Mr Goolsby hi Mr.

Mr. Lamb, the chair votes aye.