Charlottesville Redevelopment and Housing Authority Board Meeting   10/26/2026

Oh nice.

All right, we can

Commissioner Malls?

Here.

Commissioner Rosenblith?

Here.

Commissioner O'Rourke?

Here.

Commissioner Payne?

Here.

We have a quorum.

All right.

I'm going to take a moment of silence.

OK.

General announcements, meeting dates, and reminders.

Sorry, we have a board work session on November 12th at 6 p.m. We also have a board retreat on Saturday, November 14th from 9 to 12.

And what's the next one?

Just general updates from commissioners.

Any discussion?

I did send out a tracker for some items that we are delivering.

I say we, John's doing all the work, but I'm tracking John's doing the work.

So we have some work in flight there and we will review that.

That is one of the agenda items for our board retreat.

Other items is to go back to the updates on our bylaws and then also review our committee assignments.

Just for topics for the upcoming retreat if there was interest in the board and kind of at that retreat just fully discussing standing up the finance committee as well as getting CCDC update and then having a board meeting of the CCDC just

get fully up to date since it's been a while since it's a ritual creation.

Yes, I think that's a good idea.

John and I also talked about just explicitly having a quarterly

board meeting for CCDC and alternating with the nonprofit since that will be functional next year.

The other thing I think CCDC has been active.

We've passed resolution.

This board here has passed resolutions that involve CCDC.

Breaking it out and being more explicit when we're switching between the two will help clarify some of the confusion around that.

Because it's really, it's there, we're just not switching between them, I guess is the right word.

Right.

And that makes sense to me.

And again, I would definitely like for us to stand up the finance committee and then with a CCDC board meeting just be able to clean up some of the founding documents and get formal reports.

I was able to confirm that when it was it was formed before any of us under Grant and actually Riverbend formed

the escort on our behalf.

We have it on the list of all the things.

We wanted to let Delphine do that presentation on the CCDC, correct?

Yeah.

So Delphine, are you available on November 14th?

I'll have to look.

Are you talking about a presentation at that retreat on that Saturday morning?

Because I'm not sure if I can make that date.

I'll have to check.

But if not, we could definitely provide some information that could be included in a regular meeting board packet and go over it at the board meeting.

Okay, we also have a work session on November 12th, Delphine.

That's a Thursday, right?

Yes, Thursday, November 12th at 6 p.m. That would be fine.

Great.

Thank you, appreciate that.

I'll follow up with you Delphine because the city's guidance for our boards is that they can email amongst all each other but no decisions can be made, no decisions about an allocation.

No, and I have to be very firm on that because other housing authorities are getting in trouble for exactly that reason.

So the guidance that I provided to you again today, which I provided to all of you previously during trainings,

in the past multiple times is accurate and ask that you not email each other to discuss CRHA business please.

Ms. Wilcox.

Good evening, my name is Annette Wilcox.

It's for everyone.

It's for everyone.

And just around Crescent Halls.

Yes.

Because I'm thinking about showing off my pumpkin face with the cutest eye.

I'm going over, I'm going over.

It's currently scheduled.

We have not made any decisions about that meeting yet.

I know that's the week of Thanksgiving.

Yeah, typically the one, the week of Christmas gets Council, but not the, sometimes we have a Thanksgiving one.

Yes.

We've got to try to go trick or treating in the daytime.

All right, I don't see any anyone from PHAR or anyone, any other of the public.

By the time I made it, it was over.

There's just two eyes that have Brigid on it.

so I just wasn't sure if that was accurate, but it was also after.

So I should be marked as absent.

And I did come in late, 10 minutes late.

Yeah.

But you were, yeah, I mean, you were absent for the book.

Except on the last page.

You were there for this.

Oh, were you?

That's what I just wanted to clarify that.

Perfect.

Yeah, and would just second the friendly amendment in addition to that, just have the date on the minutes for September.

I don't know if that's a printed packet.

No, you were right.

Cool, cool.

All right.

I'll put it up on the screen.

What?

Thank you.

All right.

John, I believe you said we needed to move the payment standard.

Yes, we've got an email.

The agenda was already out.

We received an email on Friday letting everyone that housing authorities in the shortfall know that they need to adjust their

And Michael did point out the table is just flopped.

So what says the fair market rent should have been payment standard.

So these two spots on the table.

but we're going to re-evaluate the budget scenario and figure out if we can get to 100% or even if we can get to 90%.

The goal was to try to not adjust the rents

to where they are currently so we didn't create a unnecessary rent burden to the families because the payment standard did adjust downward this year and last year and so where we have tried to stay is steady because when they're looking at our area they're looking at the entire Charlottesville area and so we pull in some lower rent areas where generally our rents in Charlottesville are relatively high

and so even a five bedroom at 3,400 is still low.

And so we're going to try to play with those numbers again.

We are pushing up against the deadline.

We need to have these approved within 90 days.

Because they're trying to get us under the shortfall threshold.

If you're in a shortfall now and you're in a carry shortfall next year because your rents will only increase and so they're trying to get control of the spending.

I will say this shortfall is partially caused by HUD when Crescent Halls was being redeveloped

We had the big water catastrophe.

The building was empty.

There was a projection, a lease of schedule for price-based vouchers to start within six months of the project starting.

Of course that didn't happen because the building flooded.

And so it actually took almost two years to actually get residents in.

But HUD gave us that money early.

We didn't spend it because we said, hey HUD,

this money is for Crescent Halls we don't have residents there and so the money just sat there and instead of HUD saying okay we know your vouchers are coming back online what they did was take that money and say hey that's going to be your money for next year and so when housing authorities have an overage your budget next year starts off as what you

had an overage for the year before and so that year we had an overage of 1.5 million because that's how much was projected for Crest Hall to receive in a year and so you then had an overage of 1.5 million that year they then used that 1.5 million to set your budget authority the next year.

and fully recognizing this is all being caused by the federal government and I think my interpretation is they're just trying to hurt housing authorities across the country and trying to squeeze them financially.

So we don't know yet and the families that are currently in the program will not have a hit, will not have an adjustment initially.

So I can't give you a full answer yet because I need to look at how many of the families are actually using the full payment standard because just because that is a payment standard doesn't mean that's what everyone charges.

Like I'll give a good example, Jeremy.

Jeremy doesn't even get close to 50% of the payment standard.

and so it all depends on the landlord and so I need to look at that and then come back and give you an answer on it.

The impact, the shortfall impact overall we're unable to lease up vouchers of course as a big impact itself but then it could have a potential impact down the road for

like redevelopment efforts.

And so you can't project based vouchers or sign a contract while you're in a shortfall.

The good thing is both of our contracts with projects that are underway, the contracts were already signed.

They were signed years ago.

You sign them when you close.

And so those properties have already have contracts signed.

And so there are commitments there and so they're protected.

Where you have issues is your future project.

And so we need to work with HUD to get that under control.

because we'll be looking at Westheaven needing vouchers in three to four years.

And so we'll need to be able to make that commitment.

The good thing is the units that are being converted, they don't count against that.

And so that's new money.

And so as long as you're converting, you won't have that issue.

But when you're using your own authority, which we're doing at South First Street for 55 vouchers and at Sixth Street for 40,

One Vouchers, you do need to use your own authority.

And so that's where we're gonna run into issues.

But like I said, those are protected.

We're working with now to identify them.

in a shortfall plan, so they will still be funded, still be leased up, no issue, but we'll need to get it under control for future years, which is where TC and HCB, we've been talking constantly about how do you adjust that and prepare for that.

So we haven't leased up or issued a voucher in over a year and a half, and we were preparing for that.

Like HUD told us towards the beginning of the year, hey, you're no longer in shortfall,

have at it, go do what you need to do.

And we said, hey, no, we know we have these developments coming online.

We're not leasing up.

And so when HUD told us that we were down in the shortfall, all of a sudden it didn't impact as much because we were already using those same practices, reduced our lease up, try to reduce the amount of folks that are porting.

And we're looking at any fraud opportunities.

We're reaching out to landlords who have tenants who haven't paid rent because maybe they're accepting our larger portion

Right.

So just to make sure I understand, and it's something every housing authority is struggling with again because of the federal government.

So is the impact like we're able to issue fewer vouchers that causes us to get less kind of administrative or other income from them?

And then, did I understand correctly, like a portfolio like Dogwood kind of eases some of the limitation?

No, not a portfolio like Dogwood.

Yes, a private landlord.

So let's say a three bedroom can rent for $2,370.

It's considered appropriate.

Let's say this landlord says, OK, I'm going to rent it to a family for $1,000.

Well, there's a delta on that that we're saving.

On average, we're paying about $1,100 a month per family.

And so if that family were only paying $300 or $400, there's a difference there that then we get to adjust for another voucher.

and so that's what I'm saying those are the big changes that we would need to look at to actually see what is the impact to every resident because it may be a lot less we got to figure out how many are using the total full fair market rents no appreciate that to help me understand it and sounds like just unfortunately it's something we just have to do

Yes, yep, and there's a lot of housing authorities.

Any housing authority that's been in shortfall multiple years received that same email.

I think multiple shortfalls since 2016.

And so a pretty large window to get housing authorities in.

Every time I

It's never like well we have five and five equals it's like yeah it's never that easy it's algebra calculus or something I don't know if it was that easy we would love it because hud says hey you have the voucher capacity of like 650 but this is your dollar amount figure it out

But it never works.

You never get to that full budget authority.

We've been trying.

We've gotten really close.

I think what I got here was like three something.

And so we've gotten all the way up to 600 something.

Yeah because at first our problem was we had a lot of money that we just weren't spending and so every year that dollar amount is what they start off as their base and then they add to it to get to your budget authority.

When they got here we immediately put out all the vouchers.

Okay.

Yes, so I will ask you guys to pass this because there are no changes.

A slight change in the resolution at the very bottom.

It says resolve this 26th day of October, 2024.

It should be 2026, but this is the utility allowance broken out for four different types of units.

One exposed wall, which is your typical apartment style, like crescent halls, two exposed walls, three exposed walls,

and four exposed walls, then broken down from a zero bid room all the way up to a five bid room.

These are the same exact utility allowance Virginia Housing uses for our area.

What housing authorities typically will have to do is complete a study to determine the utility allowance, but it also allows you to piggyback off an agency that completes a study.

Virginia Housing runs the largest voucher program in the state, and so we piggyback off of Virginia Housing.

It's hard.

This is the hardest name I've had since I've been on this board.

Any questions before we... No.

Yes.

All opposed?

Yes.

Motion passed.

So I'm going to do this presentation.

The program is holding fairly steady.

as 435 HCD program participants, 32 mainstream, 49 project-based voucher and crescent hauls out of the 52, and so we have three vacancies there.

South First Street has 24.

So all of those units are occupied.

Southwest Street phase two, we'll have 113, but right now we have none there.

Crossings has 16, so we have five vacancies there.

Enhanced, we have three, which are typically families that are coming from a community where the half contract has expired and so you're protecting those families.

And so once those vouchers, those families move out there, those vouchers will go away.

and so they've started to dwindle.

At one point they were up at 14.

Emergency vouchers, it's one.

A majority, it went from 10 to one.

Nine of those families have now converted to the regular HCV program and so you can see the difference in the numbers there.

Tenant Protection, we have a total of eight.

Relocation, we have a total of seven.

Both of those are vouchers that will continue to sunset as families no longer qualify for those programs.

They were relocations from present halls.

Bash, we have a total of five.

FYI, we have a total of 17.

And so we're still working to fill, I believe, eight slots.

For portable vouchers, we have 16 that are ported to other localities for a total of 613 vouchers.

For the CISRAP program, there are 61 participants in that program.

That number is dropping, but our total HAP

Michael I think you pointed it out it's continued to run above what we estimated we had families get in the program during a time where there was extra money in the program it was a reserve and so we needed to eat that up but folks were complaining that Sysrap is always running an overage

Well, we didn't run our overs this year because we actually leased up more folks.

And so that was planned and intentional to get some of those dollars spent, but we did not lease up any additional new families to try to keep it at the authority we need to have it for next year.

And so we are almost there.

For HCS for the month, we did a total of 63 inspections.

There's currently 42 HCD families in the FSS program.

And the pick score right now is sitting at 100.

And the pick score is the scoring that HUD does for how we're submitting our families that are in the program.

So they're looking at your inspections, they're looking at your errands, they're looking at your annuals.

And so they're looking to see when they're done.

Some families are on 12 months, some are on 24 and some are on 36.

And so it's looking at how many families are late for those inspections and for those recertifications.

What's the

I don't know how you get a .53, but that's how it shows up in HUD's PIC system, and so we're gonna go with it, but the highest score you can get is 100 because they're looking at whether 100.

Oh, we got an A plus.

No, I'm sorry.

I'm just being obnoxious.

No, it's not measuring how well you get them in.

It's measuring how well the agency is operating the program as in whether you're doing your inspections on an annual basis or a biannual basis.

Whether you're doing your certifications on an annual, bi-annual, or tri-annual basis is whether you're managing the program properly.

HUD understands folks aren't going to, it's going to take folks different time periods to find housing.

Audited on that on the CMAC.

When you're looking at your PICS score, they're looking at what you're submitting to HUD for them to justify whether that family should be in housing.

And HUD is looking at that a whole lot more than they have ever looked at it before because they're trying to find that there's a family that's getting housing assistance that should not be receiving housing assistance.

So they have been super alert

on the pick scoring and things that's happening in the HUD systems.

We've seen so many different pop-up windows now in our HUD systems that we've never seen before.

It's remarkable.

They figured this out.

Well, way to go with your A plus, John.

Oh, we don't have a housing report in this month.

It would have been submitted late.

And so we just did not submit it to Sam.

The director was off the two weeks before the report was going to be submitted.

And so it would have been impossible to get something that would have been accurate.

Thank you for letting us know and I support vacation without creating reports during while doing.

Good evening everyone.

As promised I'll share some things on the screen.

First of all, thank you John Sales for getting our annual plan out.

We posted it the earliest I think it's ever been posted this year, which was really exciting, giving us a little more of a buffer.

I got it out to the community.

It was in the paper Saturday and we have a series of meetings that are kicking off this week.

I'm gonna be part of the resident association meeting that I was invited to at Crescent Halls and that'll be our kickoff meeting for the annual plan.

I encourage you all to attend meetings or let us know if you have questions.

And here's the trunk retreat information.

Yeah, so I'm going to get the flyer updated.

but trick-or-treating starts at 3.30 and Crescent Halls is at 3.50 and we usually average about 15 minutes at each site.

So Miss Wilcox, I recommend that you're there before we get there at 3.50 because it'll be pretty quick.

We have a whole caravan of cars, quite a few housing authority cars as well as prolific usually with us and the police department and occasionally a few others join us and we try to really keep to the schedule so we don't disappoint anyone by showing up late.

It's pretty fast moving but we do manage, we make sure we get every trick-or-treater before we leave a site.

and if we ever have to we have like one card that'll stay behind to get any stragglers.

But this is the schedule and I'll go ahead and see about getting it updated but it is Thursday the 29th and starting tomorrow we're gonna have a packing party.

I'm gonna be, everything's gonna start at nine o'clock tomorrow.

Maria's been working really hard on making sure we have some breakfast and lunch and

Everyone's getting taken care of.

But if anyone's wanting to come help us, we'll be set up and ready to go at nine o'clock tomorrow.

And John had a really good idea.

We're going to keep track of weight.

I know, sorry to interrupt, but Miss Joy had called me about the candy and asked for snack mix, not candy, from prolific, so just be forewarned, it's not candy.

I just found some blue tape that we actually use for marking units a lot and we're going to use that as kind of an anonymous way to tag some bags that will be hello because we're trying to make sure and that we have something for everyone.

because a lot of candy, a lot of our kids aren't able to eat it, not quite sure what's in it and so we're gonna, we're really excited about these bags with the snacks and pretzels and we've had quite a few things donated that were not that at all.

We even had so much up there with beef jerky which was a surprise.

Usually some of our biggest turnouts are at Crescent Halls and West Haven.

And West Haven, I mean, the streets are full, so I encourage anyone.

That's awesome.

We need to take a video.

Kathleen, can I use your time for a couple announcements?

One really big one.

The public housing wait list is opening up on November 2nd.

It will be open for an entire week.

We are accepting online applications and paper applications as a reasonable accommodation.

The application is available in multiple languages.

We did that exercise a few years ago.

And if you apply online, it's available in almost every language.

But the wait list is opening.

And so it's gonna be not only our new communities, but all of our communities, all of our public housing communities.

And so folks, if you need housing, please sign up for that wait list.

If you have housing and you're just interested in the new units, please call your property manager and request a transfer.

Don't spend your time getting on this list because you're already in housing and so you'll be duplicating efforts you've already completed.

Just call your property manager and ask for paperwork for transfer requests.

There is a process and so you won't be immediately transferred but doing this exercise, signing up again for the wait list will not be fruitful.

So this is for folks who are not in housing at the moment and need housing.

And so the wait list, the announcement is on our website.

Correct.

It's including every one of our units, South First Street, Sixth Street.

It'll include West Haven.

When West Haven is done, second phase of Sixth Street, this is our comprehensive wait list.

And so the only thing it does not include is

Okay, I will... Was it the construction updates you said?

Yes, so at South First Street, the large challenge there is if you look at the, this is going to be the first picture in the presentation, you can see that there's a concrete slab

and that back, the backside that backs up to the creek.

So the front section of that property had to be stabilized in order to start on that sixth building pad, this is building number six.

Yes, it's one of the last one completed, but it's building number six.

And so since this area had to be stabilized before this could start, this was delayed and it pushed this one further and further back.

You can see the framing.

So this last one, you can actually see the framing on that concrete slab.

And so that's really the big delay in that property.

And Sixth Street, it's a couple of different delays, none that we are actually seeing as legitimate.

We gave them some time delays due to weather, but the other delays were pushing them to get back to their schedule.

At South First Street that is not the same issue.

South First Street we have a lot less control.

We have three different contractors technically working on the site.

One actually doing the townhouses, another contractor doing the apartment buildings, and another contractor doing the ground work.

and so the groundwork contract is the one who really leads the time and schedule and so if they are late then everything else after that is late and so that is the position we've gotten ourselves into with this development where Urban Core is actually waiting or waited on

contour construction to actually do the building paths for that building and so since one was late now we're paying for with urban core bringing this building to the market late and so it's nothing we can do on that one

We've fought hard to get the project to completion to the starting line because if you remember a few years ago when we went to price this project it came back as more than double where we originally were quoted for it and so we end up having to split it up between multiple contractors to get it to a point where it was actually feasible and so we've now gotten ourselves into this relationship with multiple different contractors

trying to work together on this tight, yes it's a big property but it's really tight when you have this crew having its own construction crew, this construction team having its own team, and this team having its own team.

It's really tight and so folks have worked

pretty well together, but it's a challenge, and so these building pads, especially that one has slipped because of that issue in the front.

I know in the city we've seen delays with PHA and private construction too so it's kind of system-wide.

So there is a cost increase for South First Street.

There's a contingency budget for each one of these projects.

I will say South First Street is reaching closest contingency max, but we're not there yet.

And so right now we're good and we have some negotiating to do on some change orders that are currently in the hopper for us to negotiate on.

Sixth Street,

Fine, no issue at all.

It has a contingency as well, and of course we view some, but it has plenty of contingency to get the project completed.

Won't have an issue.

As we're speaking now, something could drastically change that.

Let me go ahead and say that now.

Right.

Sorry, just only one other question.

Oh, that was successful.

OK. 4% was submitted.

And we are just waiting on an answer.

We believe we'll get that.

But our goal is to shoot for a 2027 bond closing.

So we have plenty of time.

I'll let you say what you're going to say, but I think you have an update for West Haven that could take it.

I think I've given it to a couple of you already.

As you go through the demo and distal process, HUD has a couple of regulatory checks you have to do, and environmental is one of them.

In that environmental, it also looks at historic resources using DHR.

During that process, West Haven was flagged as a historic resource.

based upon the connection to Vinegar Hill and the historic connection there and it actually called out that specifically for the reason not the housing unit itself but how West Haven was constructed and the reason behind it and so we'll be working with the resource

a firm plus some assistance from some board members to work on what that looks like and making sure that we're reserving that history.

We're checking the box and all the boxes for the state, but then also we're able to utilize some of those resources that we find through this process.

And so that will have a delay on the entire project itself.

Funders such as Virginia Housing

usually will work with you with that as long as they see that you're making progress you taking the steps I will tell you

done quite a few of these projects.

This isn't typically an issue with DHR, but it is because of this specific reason and connection to Vinegar Hill.

And so we know we can get this project to completion.

The goal is just to get everything archived, made it available, make it available for the state to preserve and also make it available for us to utilize through the redevelopment process.

Right, which is super important, and that's- Yes, it's very competitive.

And 4% non-competitive.

while we didn't receive it.

We asked for too much money.

So this was the first year of it.

And so it was a very competitive program.

And so it looked at the amount you were asking for and what other agencies were asking for and your total makeup of resources.

And so we were weighing that really heavy, the hot seat application.

And so we asked for a decent amount.

and we didn't receive it because of that.

And so I think if we resubmitted with a much smaller ask, we would have received it because our application was the same exact application as the 9%.

and so it should have been just as competitive.

In fact, we literally just resubmitted the same application for our new 4% because we think it was just a hot seat.

Credits attached to it that made it weak because we wanted so much of it.

All right, cool.

No, that was it.

And yeah, gonna be probably the most complex and large affordable housing project in the city.

It probably will because it, yes, it will require it because I think we're gonna, we are looking at the second part of West Haven, potentially getting completed without tax credit.

And so if that's the case, you're talking,

Some very historic projects happening.

And so we think we can get it done cheaper because the total development costs for a majority of our units are around $300,000.

We add it to soft costs and out of the latte requirements, it brings up close to a half a million, $600,000 a unit.

And so we had the opportunity to save some money.

And if you're converting to vouchers, the rents that you bring in will cover the debt.

a lot of housing authorities are having an issue where you're looking at how do you cover the debt and so that's where you have those challenges and needing to bring in tax credit but here we have some donors that have come to the table we have a city that's been a really good partner unlike most housing authorities they don't have a city partner or if the city is a partner in it they're looking like

not to knock you Delphine but Norfolk where they're looking to add more market rate and non market rate units which provide a little bit of tax benefit to the city there but it's less affordable units and so here we have not done that if you look at all our developments every unit is affordable and almost every unit is subsidized.

We've learned our lesson at South First Street phase one.

We will not build units that are not subsidized.

It's so hard to fill those units.

It's the hardest units to fill.

Because those rents are set.

It's not based on your income.

Yes, you have to be income qualified to get in them, but the rent stays what it is.

If your income goes down, the rent doesn't adjust to that.

And so it's really hard to fill.

Parallel track.

Really good progress.

We're working on our, I believe, fifth unit now.

The resident should be moving back next week.

And so if commissioners want to go take a look at that unit, let us know.

Reach out to Maria.

We can get some folks in this week.

If you can't make this week, we can get you in the hotel unit next week because we're cleaning the hotel unit up.

and so we can get you in that unit to see but it's really good work if you look at the photos you see we're tearing stuff down to the studs we're doing it right and we're bringing it back making it look really good nice marble stone showers granite countertops new cabinets new flooring it's complete remodels and so the families at Mickey Madison Riverside

Yes, we're not tearing their properties down, but they're getting really nice upgrades and updates as we speak.

All right.

I will open it up for any additional public comments.

Motion.

All in favor?

Yes.

All opposed?

Really?

It's so expensive.

And then we just got too outrageous.

Yes.

Oh, you really did that.

That process is close.

But yeah, so she came back, and then she got

so yeah, so.

And I'm Missy Cava and.

Who do we do?

Ah, yes.

All of it.

No, that's, we brought housing on that, so check that out.

It's its own separate thing.

Yes, there's both CRHA and PHA plan.

And there's a little bit more, like there's gonna be like shared community resources.

Thank you.

Good, and you?

Okay, I just always like wait for Maria to make sure that she doesn't have to be in that back room by herself.

I'm trying to take the last, I'm trying to take the last one, but the middle piece felt nice.

Hopefully I get a couple of people who care about it forever.

So I'm taking them through the history.

So how do we analyze different kinds of evidence so the past is public, what is public housing, legislation and pop culture and the news and political speeches and then also what residents have said.

I want them to answer the question of what is public housing.

Too much optimistic in Virginia.

No.

I like, you know, comparatively, I'm like, yeah, so.

We're almost closing.

Yeah, but I think like my goal is for them to do this last year.

And to see some of their things.

Which I think like, it was like mildly successful at least last year, so.

I don't tell them that, but I, yeah.

Yeah, I think they, they at least develop more if you want a better understanding.

Are you that I want to know?

I would focus on public, like yeah, I talk, I mean like the first day I'm like, this is what I mean when I say public housing, like there are other models and I like explore that, but like

or like you said, they're 18.

Yeah, exactly.

So I'm like, okay.

And like, you know, if you are, I'm always like, if you're interested in more, I have pieces to send you, but yeah, I mean, for a 70, you know, 35% class, like, there's a limit to what you can achieve.

But yeah, you, let me go back, Maria.

Old school.

It's pretty good.

We're still updating it, but every month in the redevelopment section there's a monthly newsletter.

You can see the same photos I just showed you.

No, if we are doing any RAD, so all of these are tax credit devotes.

Is it 4% or 9%?

If all of these are 9%, our first 4% would be West 8th and Phase 2.

Oh, that is 1%?

Phase 1B.

We haven't got provision yet, but it's a non-competitive pool, and so typically everyone that applies gets it.

Yes, it has to be.

Right now there's 126 at Westview, and our redevelopment will put it over 200.

Yes, so there's gonna be I think 102 townhouses, 150 apartments, split 82 in the senior apartment building, 68 in a multi-family building ranging from one bedroom to three bedroom,

and then there's also an SRO, which are single room occupancy, so studio apartments that we're looking to build above a recreation center.

I think that one is looking at between 20 and 24 units.

So we're going to be about two, seven, two, eight units when we're done in the month.

So in the next three to five years?

Give us a little more time than that.

Give us about the next six to eight years.

The funding and the paper we're in, Boston.

I don't know.

Yeah, Phase 1A, 1A, and 1B.

I think that's within the next four years for sure.

But the townhouse will take a little bit longer.