City Council Meeting   10/5/2015

Dede

Call to order City Council meeting of October 1st, October 5th and we have Pledge of Allegiance first

Thank you, Mr. Mayor, City Councilors, Mr.

Manager.

I appreciate just a few moments of your time this evening.

This is a big deal week for the fire service across the country and locally.

This is National Fire Prevention Week, and I brought with me our Public Information Officer Battalion Chief Rich Jones to fill us in on

some of our activities and particularly one we're looking forward to this Saturday.

Thanks Chief and thank you all for having me.

This week the theme is hear the beep where you sleep and we're trying to get that message out.

As you know in the city of Charlottesville we have our free smoke alarm program which I want to get that out there first before I go into our activities.

Any citizens in the city that would like us

to come and put a smoke alarm free in their residence.

We'll do that.

They can call 970-3245.

So we want that out there.

And if we can't do the service due to the fact of some of the factors, we can help them out with other things.

So at least call to get the information.

So we got that out.

We will be having an open house at the Ridge Street Fire Station on Saturday, October 10th from 10 to 2.

The parking will be at the Albemarle County Office Building on McIntire Road, and we have free transportation.

up to the station.

It's also no admission.

We're gonna have face painting and balloons for the kids, some static displays, a lot of safety information.

We've partnered with the Red Cross Emergency Communications Center and Emergency Management.

So we'd like everyone to come on out and meet the firefighters and get some safety information as well.

So once again, it's hear the beep where you sleep.

We want everyone to have working smoke alarms in their homes because having working smoke alarms increases your chances by 66%

of Escaping a Home Fire, and we don't want any home fire deaths or any deaths period in the city of Charlottesville, so hopefully we can get all citizens with smoke alarms.

So thank you very much for allowing us to come down and speak with you tonight.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ms. Galvin.

Here.

Ms. Smith?

Here.

Mr. Huja?

Yes.

Ms. Szakos?

Here.

So that I'm going to be making an announcement of an event and then reading a proclamation related to that event.

And the event is Imagine a Day Without Water.

The City of Charlottesville, the Almonte County Service Authority, and Rivanna Water and Sewer Authority will take part in Imagine a Day Without Water, a national campaign to educate and inspire people about the essential value and importance of water in our everyday lives.

From October 6th through 8th, organizations across the country are joining together to educate people about the challenges facing water and wastewater systems and the need for conservation.

Charlottesville and the Omaha County Service Authority and Rivanna Water and Sewer Authority will be hosting an event tomorrow, October 6th, from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. on the downtown mall in front of the Free Speech Wall.

Entertainment will be provided

by 106.1, the corner, and there will be water saving giveaways and information available.

Additionally, an art contest for city and county students will be announced, challenging them to imagine a day without water.

So I'll go right in and read the proclamation.

So, whereas water is essential for everything we do in life, and whereas we need water to make a cup of coffee, fight fires, swim on a hot summer day, or consume a glass of water, or even take a bath, and whereas most sectors of our economy rely on water, and without water our economy would grind to a halt,

and whereas while nature provides water it takes pipes, pumps, treatment plants and people working 24-7 to deliver clean, safe water to our homes and businesses and then remove and treat waste water so it can safely be returned to the environment and whereas water infrastructure is largely invisible because it is out of sight and out of the minds of most people and need our attention and now therefore be it resolved that the City Council of Charlottesville, Virginia hereby proclaims October 6-8, 2015

as Imagine a Day Without Water to help Charlottesville residents and Charlottesville water utility customers recognize the value of safe, clean water to our community.

Thank you.

Nope, that's it.

All right, I have a short announcement and then a proclamation unrelated to the announcement.

The announcement is that next Tuesday,

October 13th is the registration to register to vote in Virginia.

So if you've moved since you last registered to vote, or if you haven't registered to vote, please do it before Tuesday, wherever you live, in the city or not.

My proclamation is something that came up at a meeting of a committee that I sit on that the IRC convened, the International Rescue Committee, working with people who come here as refugees.

But it also

is in response to some of the work that we as a city have done with the African Association, African, there's a Ghana Association and some other associations, and Simba Reras and some other organizations in town, declaring Charlottesville to be a welcoming city, and this is a national movement, cities across the country are doing this, so I will just go ahead and read it.

Proclamation, whereas the city of Charlottesville is committed to building a welcoming and neighborly atmosphere in our community where all people, including recent immigrants, are welcome, accepted, and integrated.

And whereas the city of Charlottesville, Virginia, recognizes that cities that proactively welcome immigrants and take steps to ensure their successful integration will be strategically positioned as globally competitive 21st century leaders.

And whereas city efforts and policies that promote full access for all, including recent immigrants,

are crucial to individual and community success, and whereas policies that negate opportunities for contributions to our community in the fullest capacity hinder Charlottesville's prosperity and compromise our commitment to the American values here stated, and whereas fostering a welcoming environment for all individuals, regardless of race, ethnicity, or place of origin, enhances Charlottesville's cultural fabric, economic growth, global competitiveness, and overall prosperity for current and future generations,

Now therefore be it resolved by the City Council of Charlottesville, Virginia that the City of Charlottesville is a welcoming city and we encourage all our staff and our community to join us in welcoming immigrants in our midst.

Yes, I have a few here.

First, I would like to acknowledge the passing of a very important Charlottesville resident, who actually, a former resident, he was living in New Jersey at the time, and that is Raymond Dixon, who was one of the Charlottesville 12 who helped integrate the Charlottesville schools after the federal government made them reopen.

after the Brown versus Board of Education problem.

Anyway, Raymond L. Dixon, one of the Charlottesville 12 who integrated Charlottesville public schools died on Friday, September 11th, 2015.

He and 11 other children and youth were pioneers being the first black students at the all-white Venable Elementary and Lane High Schools after a federal judge ordered them to reopen.

They closed in 1958 during Virginia's massive resistance to school integration.

Raymond will be known as a civil rights trailblazer.

He was fun, energetic, and a caring person, stated Charles Alexander, fellow Charlottesville 12 student.

On November 18th, two historical markers, in 2011, excuse me, two historical markers to honor the triumph of the Charlottesville 12 were unveiled

at ceremonies at Venable and Lane High School, the former Lane High School, which is now the Albemarle County Office Building.

A memorial service for Raymond was held on September 18th and the family extends their sincere and heartfelt appreciation for everyone who has shown kindness in his passing.

And along the same lines, I think it's actually really important to recognize those people in our community who have been trailblazers and in fact,

A program that was initiated back in the early 2000s is being reignited and that's the bridge builders.

The bridge builders honorees will have a plaque to join the other, I think there's probably about 25, 30 plaques right now on the Drury Brown Bridge.

That's the bridge that goes over West Main.

and so this program was in effect I think until about 2006 perhaps but has now been latent since then so it's being reintroduced and there is a committee that will be accepting nominations for our next round of bridge builders so just pay attention to that.

But with that, I will make a motion.

I don't know if you want me to do it now or wait.

But I'm going to move to appoint the following people to the bridge builders nomination committee and review committee.

They'll be adjudicate who will be the next bridge builders and who will then get a plaque on the Drury Brown Bridge.

This is really, really important.

And so I move that Pastor Leman Bates, Linda Bowen, Olivia Boynken from the Human Rights Commission, Phil Brown, Philip Brown, Paul Kolinga, and

I apologize if I mispronounce that.

Brenda Dzobry, Patricia Edwards, Virginia Germino, Jimmy Hollins, Renee Johnson, Evelyn Jones, Phillip Jones, and Aiden Mills, also from the Human Rights Commission, as is Renee Johnson, Meredith Richards, Matt Slats, and Ann Smith from the Human Rights Commission.

I move all of them to be on the committee to accept nominations.

Thank you.

That was a little out of order.

But these folks will be named in recognition of Drury Brown, who was a civil rights leader and activist in our community, known for reducing racial barriers.

Stay tuned, there'll be more with that.

And just one more, because October is National Energy Awareness Month, and not only is it Energy Awareness Month, but we are approaching the midway point in the Georgetown University Energy Prize semi-finals.

Charlottesville is in the semi-finals.

This month, Energize Charlottesville, our local campaign to save energy and

Hopefully win the $5 million prize is encouraging everyone in the city to take a renewed look at their homes now and consider how you can help our community win this prize by saving energy at home.

Energize Charlottesville will be releasing daily tips to save energy, announcing new resources and offering weekly prizes.

Along with our partners, additional events and opportunities will be announced during October.

Connect with Energize Charlottesville and sign up for alerts at energizecharlessville.org.

And I'd like to read a proclamation recognizing Beaux Arts on its 20th anniversary.

Whereas the arts play a unique role of involvement in our community, and whereas the arts enrich and enhance the lives of our citizens and strengthen the local economy, and whereas the arts create and reflect our world around us, and whereas the arts create opportunities for citizens to participate through sight, sound, or touch, and create longstanding emotional connections

and whereas Beaux Arts and Artists Cooperative embraces a mission of representing accomplished artists who are committed to creating original works of art and have done so since 1995.

Now, therefore, be it resolved by the Council of the City of Charlottesville, Virginia that this community celebrates Beaux Arts' success of 20 years in enriching our community through their art

and Mayor Satyendra Singh Huja as mayor of Charlottesville has hereby proclaimed this day of celebration for Beaux Arts in recognition of its 20 years of creating, cultivating and endowing this community with compelling and provocative art.

Are we here to receive the award or to understand?

I wanted to thank the city of Charlottesville for being so supportive of Beaux Art Gallery and all its members over the past 20 years.

Thank you.

Are there any announcements?

Next topic.

Good evening, Mr. Mayor and members of the Council.

My name is Leah Watson.

I live at 204 Ridge Street.

I was before you in August of last year when the City Council approved plans and allocated funds for the redesign of the stairs and city property at the end of Garrett Street.

and I had not planned on having to appear before you again.

For the last year, I've patiently listened to representatives of Neighborhood Development Services explain the delays.

I was consistently told that the work was still going to get done this year.

Just last Friday I was advised that in all probability the work will not get started until next spring because the Board of Architectural Review and the city maintenance staff have not been able to come to an agreement on the landscaping part of the plan in the past three weeks.

Last month the bar was presented with the formal plan that was essentially the same concept that you had approved 14 months ago.

The bar voted to approve the stairs, the hardscape, so that the project would not be delayed but ask for some changes in the landscaping plan.

I was advised by Ms. Rainey that the plan can't be presented to City Council for the final approval so the work can begin until it has been approved in its entirety by the bar.

After the meeting 14 months ago with the approval of the City Council and what I took as a commitment to improving the area, I stepped back from the process and hoped that it would move forward.

Problems in the area persist.

I've tried to avoid calling, except when directly threatened or when there are more serious situations.

I believe some of the problems we are experiencing are because people know that we're the ones that are calling the police frequently.

We've had bricks thrown through our porch, damaging the railing, repeated late night trespassing from drunks and others who loiter in the area, come up to our doors pounding at all hours of the evening.

and we witnessed public fights and urination and other disturbances.

This project, as I've said before, is a public safety issue.

Our neighbors have told us they won't use the stairs after dark because they don't feel safe.

For over 30 months, we've tried to address the public disturbances and neglect in the area and I've provided NDS, the Planning Commission and the City Council with statistics and calls for service records showing the high incident in the immediate area.

This design project is for a very small area, 30 feet by 40 feet, and it's been almost two years since the director of NDS first told you you would see a plan.

In that same period of time, across the street, I've seen a seven-story Marriott hotel go from design to groundbreaking to near completion.

I don't understand the delays in this very small city project that affects the public well-being.

I just don't understand how this can be justified.

So at that meeting 14 months ago, the city council members apologized.

Hello Mr. Mayor, Council.

I come to you all in Charlottesville.

I'm from Charlottesville.

My family's from Charlottesville.

Generations and generations.

The first Raleigh Kelly actually helped build the city and his father before that.

We all know the story.

What I came to talk to you all about was gentrification.

The fact that we have a whole lot of houses going up in Charlottesville and personally my family is not affected.

We can afford to purchase homes in Charlottesville, but there's a lot of people that I know that I've grown up with.

that can't afford to buy a house in Charlottesville.

And the fact that you have to be making at least $150,000 jointly or by yourself just to live in one of the houses that they're building in the neighborhoods that require low rent now.

We're talking about First Street, we're talking about 10th Street, we're talking about a whole lot of pockets in Charlottesville

And I'm just personally upset about the gentrification because, you know, my family, we share history.

My first, the first Raleigh senior, he actually was one of the black builders that helped build the homes over there in Vinegar Hill before the big developers knocked it down.

Now,

comes four generations later, his grandson is standing before you all asking you all to either some kind of way, something has to change with it.

Either people have to get paid more so they can afford to live in the same neighborhoods they've been living in.

And I don't know where they're going after they shift out, Mr. Mayor and Council, but right now, the people that I know,

can't afford to live in the same neighborhoods that they're building these houses and that's a problem.

Person like me, I'm not usually an outgoing person to that extent, but you all will be seeing me, and I'm gonna be keeping an eye on Charlottesville and how you all allocate where people live at and how much it costs to live in those areas.

So either the people who are building these places have to pay the people who help build the place that live right in the same neighborhoods.

They walk to work to these houses that they can't even afford to live in.

and work 10, 12, 13 hours in a day.

So we have to see some kind of change in that, Mr. Mayor.

We're not asking for handouts, but I will use my platform.

My grandmother has a church in this city, two churches as a matter of fact.

We have a thrift store.

We feed homeless, but

There's something that hasn't come to an end about this.

Not an end, well not an end because we want to progress, but people have to be able to afford to live in Charlottesville.

The people that are from here.

Thank you for having me.

I'm Sam Lindblom.

I live on 657 Rocky Hollow Road.

I'm here tonight as the president of the Charlottesville Area Mountain Bike Club.

But beyond that, I'm representing two of our very important partner organizations, the Rivanna Trails Foundation and the Charlottesville Area Trail Runners.

Between the three organizations, we represent somewhere between 1,100 and 1,200 trail users in the city of Charlottesville and our surrounding community, a lot of people.

The Charlottesville Arab Mountain Bike Club's been around since 2003.

We're a federally recognized non-profit organization.

Our primary focus is building and maintaining sustainable trails that don't erode, that are open for everyone.

That's the primary goal of the Charlottesville Mountain Bike Club.

Obviously, we're a cycling organization.

We promote safe cycling and getting kids outside, providing healthier opportunities for kids and adults all over our community.

We work with a lot of our partners, the city.

We spend a lot of time working with the city, the county.

We work with our federal partners, our state partners, folks like the U.S. Forest Service, the state parks around the state to build and maintain these types of trails for everybody.

We want to support the proposed ordinance at Ragged Mountain.

Thrilled, I have a long personal history at Ragged Mountain.

We think that with the shift in rules at Ragged Mountain, we'll see a lot better opportunities.

There are tremendous connecting corridors to get from trails like the Rivanna Trail out to Ragged Mountain.

It's a tremendous opportunity for our community.

We support that.

I want to personally thank the city staff, in particular, Kristin Szak, who has worked very hard to try to build a workable plan for the trails at Ragged Mountain.

We stand ready.

We have a significant volunteer base, a limited budget, but we do have some to contribute to.

We already have been contributing to reconstructing the trails at Ragged Mountain that were lost when the dam was razed.

We've been working on those trails all along, and we stand ready to help the city build those to make Ragged Mountain a premier park in our community.

There's a lot of talk about trail users and interactions between trail users, but the thing is about Charlottesville is that we have this long history of all of our parks and natural areas of getting along.

There have been no real trail user conflicts.

Allowing shared use on trails doesn't take the way of a natural area.

It's still a natural area.

We believe strongly that we should have access for everyone.

And lastly, I'll just recite the City Parks Department objectives.

Right on the homepage, the website, it says

to enhance the quality of life for all through the stewardship of public land and parks and to provide quality recreation experiences.

So let us help you make that happen.

I don't know why I keep showing up.

I guess I'm a glutton for punishment.

Downing Smith, 810 Lucas Avenue.

I got contacted by my neighborhood association that there was an item on the agenda that would be detrimental to our neighborhood.

And so I started looking at the agenda and I found something.

It says, whereas the city council desires to enhance opportunities for citizens to obtain information about proposed developments within the city and to allow expanded opportunities for public discussion of development applications.

That sounded pretty good.

And then I looked at the agenda.

Development code changes to application review process.

Well, that sounds pretty inoffensive.

And then I found this.

Allow the director of NDS to waive the requirement for community meetings.

Well, there is a problem.

This is a second reading, and I'm probably done anyhow.

If I hadn't been in the Neighborhood Association, I wouldn't even have known about this.

I knew Jim Tolbert.

He's a good guy.

I liked him.

I wouldn't trust him to make the decision whether or not to have community input.

I don't know the new guy.

I think it's a really bad idea to have somebody that you don't have a track record with to be waiving community meetings.

NDS has a history of being sort of against the neighborhoods.

If it hadn't been for the neighborhood association, I'd probably have a gas station on one side, a fast food station on the other, and a high-rise

Hotel across the street.

I just think this is a bad idea.

I will ask you one thing since I'm probably going to lose this one as usual.

Do me a favor, change the name.

Neighborhood Development Services is the most inappropriate name for a department in this city.

Just drop the neighborhood because this organization does not serve the neighborhood.

And one other quick thing I found on the agenda, I disagree with the previous speaker.

I have a dog.

I love my dog.

I used to jog a lot.

I have a bicycle.

These activities are inappropriate for a natural area.

They interfere with the natural area.

We have lots of parks where people can run and ride their bicycles and walk their dogs.

This is the only natural area.

So if you go ahead and accept this, you might as well go ahead and change the name to the Ragged Mountain Recreation Area or Ragged Mountain Park because it will no longer be a natural area.

Lena Saville, 808 Alta Vista Avenue.

I'm also here to speak about the community meetings for the development.

I'll say this was actually brought forward over the last probably six months or a year from the neighborhood associations.

We wanted to have

Thank you very much.

It appears that things like special use permit modifications and planned unit development modifications can have a waiver for the community meetings.

While the initial one would have a community meeting, we often see that the changes that are brought about, once something's approved,

What happens is the developer gets higher density or some other benefit in response to giving some kind of community good.

And then they come back to amend it and they try to take out the community good.

We've seen it recently with a developer trying to take out LEED certification for an energy efficient building that was originally agreed to.

In fact, further on in tonight's city council meeting,

you'll be talking about Market Plaza development.

They were applied for and received a special use permit and then now they're coming back to amendment and I will quote from tonight's council book.

The planning commission, when they reviewed this amendment, raised concerns about the regulations that might be applied.

Several commissioners indicated that their initial support of the special use permit was based on the fact that the outdoor plaza was going to be a public space, and the changes altered the project to the point where they would not have supported the additional height and density in the project.

which is a way of saying that if this this SUP that's before you tonight had been what they originally saw they may not have voted to support it.

We constantly see that these amendments to SUPs and PUDs change the original intent and being able to waive those meetings is a concern for me particularly when I see tonight it's a first of one reading for an amendment to the SUP so

While we have this process for community meetings for the original one, the amendment can, there can be a waiver, nobody knows about it, first of one reading, and done.

So what I would like to ask is that when there is a waiver for an SUP or a PUD amendment that the same publication process is used as if there had been an actual meeting.

Like if you were supposed to advertise a community meeting for an amendment to an SUP or a PUD, even if it's waived, advertise that it's been waived so that the community has a chance to know about it and be able to respond to it.

Hello, I'm Cecile Gorman.

I live at 1115 Sycamore Street in Charlottesville.

I'm here to advocate for that the original design that was presented for the Market Plaza remain a public plaza because I think that that was one of the strengths of the design and one of the reasons why it was awarded.

Other than the design itself for the building, but the plaza itself was

met more of the criteria that make a stronger market than the other ones and so I do feel like it gave it an advantage over the other ones because of the public plaza aspect.

It's always been the history of the farmers market to be a public market and not just publicly maintained but on a public plaza, on public property.

This gives it a more democratic aspect to it and when you run into problems they can be solved democratically.

Dr. Michael Kochis.

accommodate flexible uses, it would have minimal user conflicts.

With the public, I mean the private plaza, now we're talking about event space and restaurant uses and we're not talking about any, there have been no plans presented which would be the market use.

They're talking about renting it for the one use or maybe another day, but there are lots of other

plans out there other ideas from the market stakeholders what else could be held on this public plaza but if it has to compete with the private uses and

income, let's say, income versus public good, I think it's going to be very tough for the market to compete with that.

And the original purpose of this whole design contest in the first place was to have a permanent home for the farmer's market.

And now it's becoming, you know, it's not the priority anymore.

It's what's going to happen as a private plaza.

And it is called Market Plaza, which is kind of ironic.

Thank you very much.

I'm David Stackhouse, 1404 Westwood Road here in Charlottesville.

Mr. Mayor, City Councilors, and Mr.

Manager, thanks for giving me the opportunity to talk to you tonight.

I want to let you know that I support 100% the proposed ordinance to change use at Reagan Mountain to shared use.

For quite some time, it's been a puzzle minute to all of my constituency, which would be outdoor runners, bikers, families,

Charlottesville is a difficult place to be a road cyclist because we have a lot of windy, twisty roads that are hairpin turns leading in and out of town.

That leads a cyclist to want to ride trails.

and Ragged Mountain offers a tremendous opportunity to have an expanded network of trails to be ridden for a broad section of the public.

Not to mention runners as well.

As you probably know, Charlottesville is a hotbed of long distance runners and they all want trails to run on.

So it's really been a puzzlement why a natural area, the largest city-owned natural area, could not be used for recreational opportunities that allow the natural area to continue to exist.

As the Mountain Biking Club, we specialize in designing and building trails that are sustainable that don't create erosion.

I do represent a broad spectrum of people in the room here.

Raise of hands.

We care about this.

We think Parks and Recreation is doing the right thing to bring this ordinance before City Council and I hope City Council seriously considers the great recreational opportunities that this would afford a broad section of the public.

that would remove the restriction of exclusivity to just one small group.

As the original Public Access Coordinator,

I'm the reason people can watch these meetings now.

As coordinator, I produced a program called COP TV where we did public affairs programs like You've Got a Friend Day and many other things that spotlighted the work that COPS did in the community.

As the father of a police officer, I rode along with my son and saw firsthand many of the dangers that police officers are asked to be put into

in keeping the community safe.

And as a citizen, I see the work that they do in solving some of the high profile crimes that have occurred.

So I'm pissed off when I see these men and women murdered in cold blood over the false narrative that you liberals propagate that cops are racist over, among things, this stop and frisk nonsense.

We expect them to adhere to a higher standard,

and we should, given the power and responsibility that we give them.

But shouldn't we expect a standard of behavior from the public?

I can understand those from FAR, NAACP, ACLU and you on city council wanting to see if there's any racism in the enforcement of the law.

So let's look at the stats to see if there's any racism in the breaking of the law.

They claim they want transparency and accountability, but does that apply to all the statistics?

A bit of hypocrisy, it seems to me.

You critics don't define a policeman's honor.

You try to shame them for doing their job.

You teach children to fear them, crowds to attack them, and good people to doubt them.

They will never back down from their sworn duty to uphold

the Constitution of the United States of America.

They wake up every day, put on a badge, strap a gun to their hip, kiss their families goodbye, and put their lives between the law abiding and the criminals who threaten your rights.

They serve people of every color and creed, men, women, and children in violent neighborhoods because they have the same rights to life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

as you the political elite.

You make a big deal about being inclusive and open and invite citizen participation, yet you ignore those who disagree with you and ridicule those who challenge you.

So a simple question I would like you to answer is this.

Would you be willing to release all of the statistics on crime?

Thank you.

My name is Lewis Schultz.

I live at 1809 East Market Street.

By law, counsel is required to meet on the first and third Mondays of every month except in the case of a holiday when the meeting must be on the Tuesday after.

The section of Charlottesville's code that requires these meetings does not allow cancellation of meetings for any reason.

They must be held on the appointed day.

The code makes that obligation explicitly clear and makes failure to do so a class one misdemeanor punishable by up to a year in jail and a $2,500 fine.

Yet on August 3rd of this year, all five councilors knowingly chose to violate the law and the oaths they swore to faithfully and impartially discharge all the duties incumbent upon them.

On that day, they simply walked away from their duty to meet as though election to this council has made them and their whims superior to the law.

That is not the way democracy is supposed to work, but disregard for the law and contempt for the rights of citizens are defining characteristics of our city government.

This is the 46th time since October 3rd, 2013

that I have come to Kathy Galvin and the rest of council to say that I have evidence that City Manager Maurice Jones, Director of Public Works Judith Mueller and Utilities Director Lauren Hildebrand by unlawfully taking my private property for a public use and by denying me my lawful rights to it have violated Charlottesville's code, the city's charter and the code of Virginia and in doing so have violated federal civil rights statutes.

That property is on Steep Hill Street, a private street in the Woollen Mills neighborhood.

For 24 months now, I have repeatedly told council that my rights as a U.S. citizen were illegally taken from me by force with no due process and no compensation by people acting in their official capacities as employees of the city of Charlottesville and under the direct supervision of the city manager.

I've made serious, credible accusations of wrongdoing on the part of three and possibly more high-ranking city officials.

I have named those involved, the time, the place, and the laws which were broken.

I have provided counsel documentary evidence to prove my assertions, and I have repeatedly asked for a hearing into the matter where I might give sworn testimony and present any additional evidence counsel might request of me

so that justice may be served and those who have broken the law might be held accountable.

A few weeks ago, Kathy Galvin responded to a citizen's comment by saying it was frightening someone would call her integrity into question.

As a citizen, I find it frightening that Ms. Galvin apparently feels free to break the law, knowing that the Commonwealth's attorney, who should prosecute her and the rest of council, is a member of her political party, has worked on her campaign, and will look the other way, just as she has when confronted with evidence that the city manager and others have violated the law.

I find it frightening that a city that once closed its schools to avoid integration, and which intentionally destroyed two vibrant African-American neighborhoods,

still doesn't allow us African American citizens to walk down the street free of the fear of being stopped and frisked for no reason at all.

I find it frightening that Ms. Galvin and the other counselors that allow citizens to be stopped when there is no evidence of a crime having been committed will simply ignore overwhelming evidence of criminal behavior when they or their friends stand accused.

I find it frightening that counselor Szakos would threaten to charge me with slander for coming here and speaking the truth about corruption and incompetence in City Hall and that Ms. Galvin would say nothing about that egregious assault and a basic American freedom.

Anybody else would like to speak today?

I'm going to close this part of the meeting.

I just wanted to respond to Ms. Watson.

This is something that I've been following and had sort of let it slip off my radar because I thought it was proceeding apace, as apparently you did too, and I'm dismayed that it's taken this long.

We did approve the project, as you said, 14 months ago.

I'm wondering if we could ask staff to break this into two projects so that if the BAR approved the stairs that we could go ahead and build the stairs and then work on the landscaping while that's happening so that it could be done in the spring with BAR approval.

I support that too.

Well, there's that.

But at least the construction part we can move forward on and see what we can do about the landscaping as well.

To Mr. Kelly, are you still here?

Mr. Kelly, do you?

Okay.

I would basically say that I share the concern, as do we all, about affordable housing in Charlottesville.

I think that there is

The idea of gentrification is when people are pushed out of neighborhoods and when that is a problem in our city.

The idea that we're building more housing, though, is not necessarily indicative of gentrification.

In fact, the more housing stock we have, the less likely it is that we'll have gentrification.

So as we build more housing stock, it helps relieve the pressure on the neighborhoods of people moving in and buying up houses that people, families are in now.

We also support an affordable housing fund that is very vigorous in the state of Virginia, and we also support AHIP, which is helping existing homeowners renovate their homes so that they don't lose housing that is already in the hands of families who have had it for generations.

So these are issues that we share concern about, and I welcome Mr. Kelly's comments, but I would

say that there are a lot of other issues or a lot of other perspectives there.

We'll talk about the trails later.

The one item that we have, I believe it's on our consent agenda so we won't have discussion on it, that Ms. Seville brought up about waivers.

I actually would support her suggestion that if there is a waiver that the notification be the same as if there were a notification for a meeting, just to let the public know that there's been a waiver.

and that not only would it go out to the neighborhood association but also anyone who came to the original meeting, that we would maintain the records of the people who came to those meetings so that they could be notified that there was a change.

So I think, Mr. Hayden, thank you for your work on Public Access TV.

Yeah, sure, since we're starting in the eastern part of the room.

Yes, I agree with trying to expedite as much as possible.

In fact, do it.

I mean, 14 months ago, it's just so incredible that it's taken this long.

Absolutely incredible.

And I would like to say that we approved something before January.

that we, somebody who's responsible, I believe it's the BAR, or if the council needs to approve something before January.

If it's breaking it up into two pieces as Councilor Szakos advises or suggests, yes, but that is too long.

Mr. Kelly's concerns about

Affordable Housing.

And the population he's describing is the workforce.

And I do believe that we will be receiving a study report out from our housing specialist, Kathy McHugh, in the next month or two.

That's going to give us some hard numbers about that workforce need.

I would like us to be very, very serious about

what additional policies we need to have in place to create the kind of housing that fits that middle ground between very low income, which is termed to be 80% AMI and below, and then the defined workforce piece that's 80% to 120% AMI.

Other places have vigorously used land trusts, for example.

We can broaden our

Brett and type of housing types so that we have more townhouses, more small apartment buildings being built instead of only single family detached on one hand or large apartment buildings on the other.

We do have large areas of the city that have a vision.

One is the strategic investment area that is calling for workforce housing as well.

We need to start moving in a very strategic way

who addressed that need and it also is very much tied to the growing traffic problems that we have.

It's a combination of people not being able to afford the neighborhoods that they grew up in and people then having to live out but they still work here.

So it's the land use transportation problem needs to be looked at together.

So I'm hoping we get that on the agenda as soon as we get the information from Ms. McHugh.

It was modifications.

So I just want to get some clarity on that.

What is the nuance that seems to be new?

Okay, just to comment on a few things here.

Yes, it sort of confuses me that the BAR would be the sort of source of problem for landscaping.

as much as hardscape.

So it would be good to get just even some explanation as to what's going on there because it really would be a much better time to plant at this time of year.

And I would worry that it would come to be spring and they say, well, really, you know, we shouldn't be doing this in spring.

So that said, it would be where you get some information.

And I'm sorry Mr. Kelly isn't here actually, and if he's listening or anybody knows him or anybody else interested in this, we do have a program in partnership with Piedmont Housing Alliance to enable home ownership in that whole kind of

Cherry Avenue back towards the Orange Dale neighborhood, includes 7 and a half street.

Where a lot of folks who struggle to buy houses actually did grow up and it was one of the points.

This is a community that people are very dedicated to.

So anybody you know who's sort of in this situation as Mr. Kelly described or is just interested

in affording to buy housing here should contact Piedmont Housing Alliance and mention the program with the city.

And it's with AHIP as well, and with LEAP, all of which will enable people to get into a really sort of solid and well-constructed home to do this, to do so.

So it's just out there.

It's not clear to me we don't need to pull that

consent agenda item.

We had two public comments about it and it's something that did come up when we were talking about it two weeks ago.

So maybe we can resolve it at the consent level, but let's just be prepared to pull it if we need to.

I will be talking about Market Plaza and, of course, about the Ragged Mountain.

You know, it's going to be an interesting conversation.

I mean, a lot of the things that we talked about that in favor of allowing bikes and runners are actually the same arguments to exclude them.

quality of life issues, stewardship of land issues, and that this is a hotbed of runners and bikers, which speaks to really what is gonna happen once you open up the area, but we'll just talk more about that.

Think, I think that's probably, oh, are we going to have it?

Let me ask, will, I get mixed messages here, will there be a public hearing for the second reading of the Ragon Mountain Change of Rules?

Is Chris here still?

Will there be, someone told me there would be.

Okay.

Okay.

I'll start with John Hayden.

John, I understand your message, but I don't appreciate the language.

We have, John, we have youngsters in this chambers.

They come down here to watch the proceedings.

We have young people watching on television for a school assignment.

And personally, I don't appreciate that kind of language.

I would appreciate if you would watch your language.

It starts with P and it ends with O. F.F.

We're going to talk about NDS as part of the meeting.

and I would, Ms. Watson, I would suggest we could, through the city manager, not ask that this be done, broken in two, but directed it be done in two parts.

A year is far too long, 20 months, 30 months, it's just, so anyway, that would be my suggestion.

Sam Lindblom, I'm glad to finally see you.

and it is, it's going to be a question of sharing and how we work this out.

As I think I told you through emails, it's bikes and birders, so I'm sure we can work anything else out, we can work this out.

Market Plaza we'll be talking about.

And there was one other thing, if you just give me a second.

The bikers who came down here, at last count I had 17 emails.

So y'all are very vocal and I appreciate you coming down here.

Many people, when I talk to them about issues across town, they say, what difference does it make?

Why send an email?

Why come down here?

To me it does make a difference.

I like to see people come down here and I like to hear what they say.

Because many times it gives me a perspective that I haven't heard before.

Any other comments?

Let me move to the next item.

Consent Agenda, minutes for September 21st and September 24th, West Main Work Session.

Appropriation, Hillsdale Drive Funding, $15,309,596.

Appropriation, Virginia Juvenile Community Crime Control Act Grant,

$452,704.

Appropriation, Adult Drug Treatment Court Grant Award, $205,000.

Appropriation, State Criminal Alien Assistance Program Grant for 2015, $7,697.

Appropriation, Charlottesville Area Transit Fiscal Year 2016 Grants, $480,486.

Ordinance development code changes for application review process.

Ordinance franchise agreement for overhead fiber optic cable on Harris Street.

Ordinance short-term rental tax amendment.

Ordinance increased limit of maximum financial worth for rent relief program.

I have a couple questions.

It was brought to our attention today that Hillsdale's schedule has changed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, we're still going through the right-of-way acquisition.

It's taken a little bit longer than we had anticipated.

But in the end, the completion date is still the same.

So they're advertising in the proposed change in the schedule is to advertise in June of next year, if not earlier, if we can get through the right-of-way.

acquisition sooner.

And there's some design issues that we're going back and forth with VLAD over at this point.

Total state federal appropriated was $19,900,000 plus.

Previously appropriated and in parentheses $4,672,000.

So we have remaining amount to be appropriated.

We have not spent all $1 million for that.

I'm in construction.

I know that.

I'm just saying, if we haven't even started construction yet, and we've already spent

over four and a half million dollars.

Actually, can I have one other question?

I know you want to get through this.

And again, it's just sort of an opportunity.

Short term rentals tax amendment.

It just made me realize, is there a process by which we're going to let people know about our recent changes with short-term rental?

I know, I know.

Yeah, we do.

I just want to know how people are going to know what they're supposed to do.

This is it's really a housekeeping issue we

The schedule that we were using to collect short-term rental tax, it's paid quarterly.

We're doing it on the wrong day.

State code said it needs to be on the 15th.

We've been doing it on the 20th, so we're just trying to clean that up.

We'll notify everybody.

Well, I'm not worried about this change nearly as much as just the ordinance change that we just made for people who were working with

you know, through Airbnb.

I'm just using it as an opportunity to ask how are we letting people know about this recent change because it affects a lot of people.

I think this is an issue she's not on the agenda.

I know.

Okay.

But we can provide that information.

Can you provide that information?

Can we come up with a plan?

Thank you.

Is there a motion for the Senate agenda item G?

Discussion?

Report?

Thank you.

Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, this is a consideration of a special use permit for the Market Plaza Project located on 2nd Street SW.

The application was taken up by the Planning Commission at their meeting in September.

The recommendation from the Planning Commission was approval with some modifications to the conditions as proposed by the applicant.

Those are listed in your cover memo.

They all concern with condition 4A.

and they mentioned, one, that there will be public right of access to the site subject to the hours agreed upon by the city and the owner.

Two, the amount of programmed private space will be limited to the total square footage of the retail space or 50% of the plaza, whichever is less.

Three, the plaza can be restricted for private events for a maximum of 52 times per calendar year.

And four, the width of the pedestrian right of way may be no less than the current first street right of way.

I understand that there has been some concern about that number four item that's been raised in the land sale and so I would ask that you recognize the applicant's attorney or the applicant's representative to deal with that.

Also that there was a suggestion from Ms. Galvin regarding a proposed change to I think it's condition 10B regarding

the director of neighborhood development services authority to approve modifications to the plaza plan.

Just restricting some of that so that the market stalls aren't subject to any changes or anything like that.

It was actually section 4D.

And it referenced section 10.

Good evening Mr. Mayor, Members of Council.

My name is David Pettit and I'm with the firm of Lenhart Pettit and I represent the applicant in this matter.

I don't think I have a lot of things to speak to you about but I want to address the two that Mr. Haluska just brought up.

First with respect to the width of the full-time pedestrian right-of-way going from Water Street to South Street.

We've had discussions with the city staff about the width of that.

Planning Commission expressed a desire that it be 30 feet wide.

The applicant agreed to that, but felt it was appropriate since it's being maintained on a full time basis for use by citizens for access that it be maintained in terms of snow removal and routine maintenance by the city because it will be truly a fully public space

for the applicant to have responsibility for snow removal and that sort of maintenance on space puts the applicant in a difficult position.

So the applicant requested that the city be responsible for snow removal.

In conversations with the city staff, the city staff said, if we are willing, if it can be reduced in width to 16 feet, would the applicant be prepared to engage in the snow removal, to take responsibility for the snow removal?

and the applicant has indicated that yes, he would be willing to make that trade off.

The applicant is satisfied with either of those two solutions.

Either a 30 foot wide full time public access with the city removing the snow or a 16 foot wide full time public access with the applicant removing the snow.

So that's one of the, yes sir.

Yes, there's one other issue that we would like to bring up before the council and that is this.

In the applicant's discussions with the city, it had long been a premise that we're preparing this site for development in conjunction with the property immediately to the east.

In fact, that property is referred to in the special use permit as the adjacent property.

and in those discussions with the city it had been I think agreed would be a fair term certainly the parties discussed this and everybody was happy with it that if the property to the east the adjacent property were developed and the applicant was able to offer additional space the same square footage of space on the property to the east that the indoor

event space that you've seen referred to in the special use permit would no longer be used for the city market and the entire city market would be on one level and outdoors.

That provision is in the lease document that we prepared that you will be considering, but I think through an oversight the parties didn't realize until just this afternoon

but the special use permit actually requires the indoor event space to remain a part of the lease space under the term for the special use permit.

So we have asked Mr. Mayor and we've worked out some language on this or we have drafted some language and provided it to the city attorney and I think it's been provided to you that the special use permit condition 10B which says that the entire plaza and the indoor event space will be reserved for the market

be amended to add the language unless the city and the applicant agree to the substitution of equal areas on the adjacent property that are equivalent to the outdoor market stalls on the plaza.

No, sir.

I don't think we have any other issues with respect to the special use permit.

Can we make a comment?

I think that having probably maintained by two different entities partly by city, partly by applicant seems reasonable to me.

I think that one concern I've had all along is that on the plaza itself during the days that are not market days when it's open to the public,

if there are benches or tables or places that people can sit without buying a meal available in the plaza.

And I guess I would consider that if the project director or the developer commits to having that sort of amenity on the plaza, I would be less concerned about the full width of the right-of-way.

I think that if there weren't gonna be that sort of furniture and availability of resting places on the plaza,

I think one of the interesting comments that was made at the last presentation by Mr. Poe was that he referenced Rockefeller Plaza as a good example of a privately owned public space.

Project for Public Places was called in at that, oh, 30 years ago or so to look into what would make that a much more active space.

And the first thing that they suggested was benches.

So that is an example of a very successful privately owned public space that did provide amenities like benches that actually facilitated the kind of

kind of public gathering that we all want and we all appreciate.

So I think before I'm willing to concede, I'd be willing to go with a 16-foot wide right-of-way.

I would like to know from Mr. Haleska, what was the reasoning behind the Planning Commission's insistence on a 30-foot

wide right of way first, but I do really feel it would be important to provide some kinds of movable benches.

They don't have to be fixed.

In fact, the more movable they are, the better.

I'm going to make just general comments that I've made before actually but just so everybody in the community who may be watching will understand.

From the very beginning I knew that this had to be either a public or a private space and at that point I was involved in a situation on the downtown mall with a fellow who sort of needed intervention and nothing could be done because it was a public space so

Every time this issue came up from the first meeting right through tonight, I told people that you can't have half and half, you can't have quarter and three-quarter.

It's one or the other.

I have no relationship with Keith Woodard or Greg Powell, but I do know Keith has done tremendous work around the city and he's a man of his word.

I'll see what he says about this bench business here.

But this is a tremendous investment that's going to be made that's going to benefit downtown.

I have been critical of special use permits before because the city really didn't get anything in exchange for them.

This is one situation where they do.

They get a city market.

If you remember two years ago, three years ago, we almost had a market go on Garrett Street.

and that would have been a disaster in my opinion.

For 20 years people have been trying to get a city market in town.

We had one for a number of years on an open parking lot with oil and all kinds of fluids dripping that ran into the river every time it rained.

People with disabilities could not access that market except on the top level or on parts of the lower level.

So this is flat.

It's to Mr. Woodard's

Advantage to make sure this thing works.

Nobody's going to rent, want to rent or buy a condo in a place that is not running smoothly in that position.

Yeah, I'll just comment on the – right away.

Just to clarify, the distinction is just how much it can't be obstructed.

Is that right?

with the Market Plaza, Benches, or whatever they are, because it doesn't make the whole building bigger.

Yeah.

Footprint.

Right.

Right.

Okay.

And so when we're talking about benches, we're talking about y'all putting them on the private part next to the easement.

Is that what I'm hearing?

Yeah.

Okay.

Big issue with 30 versus 16.

30's more comfortable.

I suspect that's why the Planning Commission did that.

The Planning Commission, when this was initially brought up in September, had a lot of concern about the fact that with the two developments, the potential for the adjacent property being developed, that the historical grid of the city would be modified in some way and potentially that Vista down first would be blocked.

So there really was a lot of concern there about there being no obstructions, that there still be that kind of traditional

I think they took the opportunity here to say well if the plaza is no longer being referred to as a public space for liability reasons or whatever then at least let's hang on to First Street as this public access point between South and Water which they didn't want obstructed anyway.

by any kind of buildings or anything like that.

So I think 30 is the traditional right-of-way width.

It's pretty much the average right-of-way width now.

For cars?

The car, curb-to-curb and the sidewalk, yeah, to the back of the sidewalks to the private property.

So 16 would probably be closer to

I believe that's still a condition.

This was talking about access.

Yes sir, I think we have a good answer for the benches because the special use permit requires as part of the site plan approval that we submit a plan with amenities including benches.

But I guess that can include that sort of thing, I'm just getting

What page is this?

On the R99?

101.

I'm looking at hard copy, I'm sorry, but it's in the conditions to the SUD.

Got it, okay.

and Section 4C of D, the two places where the words water feature are deleted.

To be honest, I'm not sure.

The Planning Commission approved a change to deleting the water feature and replacing it with trees as the developer has continued to look at the design

the developer is thinking perhaps that the water feature is superior.

So that's still being worked on.

Council, correct me if I'm wrong, but whether it specifically says we can have a water feature or not, it's not precluded.

So I think the language as it stands is

Yes.

Do you concur?

That is quite acceptable.

That lets the parties continue to plan and try to do the best job they can to make the plaza.

No, you can put it back in.

We can put it back in.

We took it out because at that time the planning did not include a water feature and we didn't want to appear that we were suggesting that we might include something that we had no intention, that we didn't think was the right thing to be there.

I don't disagree with what was said.

Can I ask a clarifying question?

So the second change that you just described was about the indoor space.

And so you want to say that if the adjacent property is built with the potential to expand the city market, that it relieves you of the indoor space requirement.

Right.

Provided we offer substitute space, equal in area,

Okay, I understand that.

Just for fellow counselors, it seems to me that one of the discomforts that our public has and that we expressed a couple weeks ago is that 99 years is a long time and while it talks about renegotiating the terms, the city will have very little leverage once we sign this away and

I'll just say it out loud to you.

I'm sure it wouldn't be a big surprise is that that does offer us some leverage if we can excuse you from the space.

Maybe I shouldn't have said that out loud.

I'm inclined to not include that because I think the indoor space is qualitatively different than the outdoor space.

As we've noticed this last week when I went to take my compost to the market at 1130 and they were already gone because it had been pouring all day long and nobody came to the market

if you have part of the market that's undercover at least something happens and I think that that's very different than trading it off for more outdoor space.

But we could still do it.

It could happen later and they can decide to do that but yeah.

Then it means that

One reason we picked yours is that it had some indoor space.

May I ask just a couple of other questions that have come up as we talk about the right-of-way.

One of the questions that I had was the steps themselves.

I understand that generally we want outdoor steps to have some sort of covering and that the BAR had not wanted covering because it blocked the view.

of the Thruway that they had wanted to maintain along that right-of-way, or whatever, the existing street now.

No.

Let me add a comment there.

If you're making water in the middle of winter, you gotta be careful because we have many sidewalks around the city that the gutters spill right on the sidewalk and that creates a hazard.

So you just have to be very careful

Can I ask Mr. Brown something?

Just because I highlighted all these words as I was reading it.

Under 15, which is the bar design review.

Five and our materials.

It uses the word should a lot.

I'm used to the shall.

And it may be a derivation of shall, but it seems like a strange word.

Well, in my mind, it's not as binding or directive as shall.

Another question I had is, I'm not sure where it is, and I saw it referred to as above, but then couldn't find it.

I was about to speak to those, but they really are a part of the contract.

Okay, good.

Because I am concerned that that's kind of tight, but I won't discuss it tonight.

If we're not deciding it tonight,

and I had one other question which may have been answered.

Oh, there's some talk about during construction, the traffic plan and various things will be available, will be presented to the city and I just wanted to check with city staff if we can make those available online as well as the contact, the public liaison during construction to be online as well as posted at the site.

Is there a resolution on this item?

I would like to make a few comments though to address several of the public's concerns about the distinction between a public space versus a privately owned public space, if I may.

Because I did some, you know, research on this just to really make sure it was clear in my own mind what we were doing.

but one good example is the Seagram Plaza in New York City is the first actually case that was studied by this person, William White, who was the founder of the Project for Public Spaces and that was a privately owned public space and it was studied to improve how well it activated the space.

It's interesting that one of the first consultants that were brought in to Charlottesville to help

the Market Task Force grapple with this issue of the market was a David O'Neill who is and was an associate of the Project for Public Spaces and it was that person that really started tilting the cards to be in the direction of making the market be on Water Street.

So I bring that up because

The Project for Public Spaces routinely works with private owners to create better public spaces.

In fact, their information that they did on the study of the Seagram's Plaza informed the zoning changes for the New York City public space zoning.

That tells me that this is actually still good planning practice, that it's a way to expand public space through the private sector.

It also is important to point out that the city continues to increase its share of publicly owned public space.

In 2006, 8% of the city's land area was public park space.

By 2013, it was 10% of the city's land area.

And I looked up a report by the Trust for Public Land.

The median percentage of parkland for U.S. cities nationwide was 8.3%.

So we as a city are going great guns in creating true public space.

A privately owned public space is adding to that opportunity for public gathering spots, but it doesn't mean that we're not

also acquiring true publicly owned public space.

I also looked at that we really do have limited redevelopment options in the city.

In the 2013 comp plan, 75% of the city's 10.4 square miles is devoted to residential use, 10% to roads, and 10% to public parks, leaving only 5% of the city's total land area for non-residential use.

That's about 330 acres.

So if people might remember, there was also a market venture study in 2013 that advised not to put the market there because we were sorely in need of redeveloping our scarce parcels for commercial mixed-use.

What came before us in this competition, because the council listened to the public, know we want it on Water Street, was to try and make a mixed-use development work with a big public area that would be used for a market.

And that is what we have.

And Mr. Engel has generated some revenue streams for us that will be generated by this project as a mixed-use project, not only a big public

Park, and it's about $700,000 a year, which is about one and a quarter cent increase in the real estate tax, if you did that kind of number crunching.

And it's about one and a half percent increase in the lodging tax.

So again, this project is trying to do so many things for this city in a very tight postage stamp area.

And I believe it does it well, and it is, again,

Charlottesville is blessed with having a lot of public space, but I do believe adding privately owned public space to the inventory will simply serve to make this an even better

City for our residents and the market will still continue to thrive.

I'd just like to comment on that and I agree with that.

I think those are good points but I continue to be concerned that 99 years is a long time and the fact that we have one city market on Saturdays

until three o'clock or until noon, and these are pretty specific hours, is just not necessarily going to reflect what we might even need in 10 years.

So the fact that it says we can renegotiate it, but there's sort of no parameters around that, and it's not clear to me why you'd give any more after, I mean, I understand that.

anymore after we've signed all these papers and sold it away.

And I just wanted to see more opportunity to have more city market days.

It's not in the memo.

Okay, so we have two city market days.

And that's something we really pushed for, and they responded.

Mr. Mayor, since this is a long special use permit resolution, if I could just kind of summarize very quickly the changes.

There are a number of changes indicated by underlining and strikeout.

I don't believe council has changed any of those other than on page 101.

The 30 foot wide pedestrian walkway is changed to 16 feet and that will alter the maintenance responsibilities that will be in the lease.

And I did propose an amendment.

If I may read that again, I sent it to everybody.

It was on that same section 4D, page 101, and it was the very last sentence in section D. That sentence reads,

Any such change approved by the Parks and Recreation Department will be submitted to the Director of Naval Development Services for administrative approval as a minor site plan amendment, provided such changes do not alter the conditions of use delineated in Section 10, Farmers Market.

Yeah, that's just that provided on.

Is that your motion?

That is my amendment I'm offering.

I would second all three amendments, which is

Any other comments?

I think it will be a good project for the city, for the public market, marketplace as well as for mixed use development and I support this project.

And I just would like to, without as much research this time on this, but just really reiterate what Councillor Galvin said, that we are really lucky to be able to have both a public space for our city market and a development downtown, because most cities would have chosen one or the other and most cities would not have chosen the market.

5-0, and then one more step forward.

Next item on the agenda is Public Hearing, Sale of Land, Water Street.

Good evening, Council, Mr. Mayor.

My name is Chris Engle, Director of Economic Development, and we're going to talk a little bit more about Markiplaza in the context of the potential sale of land on which it would potentially be built.

This item does call for a public hearing as it is a sale of city property.

I'd like to briefly recap where we've been.

A lot has already been said, but for the public's benefit, just a reminder of where we've been to get to this.

You were calling in late 2013, the council asked the staff to put together a request for proposals that would potentially allow the market and a large mixed use development to coexist.

This was on the heels of the market venture study, which,

looked at the current city market site and some others and made some recommendations that were all quite costly.

That RFP was put out in 2014.

We did get four responses.

The public made comment.

The council had a public session in this room in April and in June, council gave the direction to move forward negotiating with the concept that has become known as Market Plaza.

Just as a reminder, the RFP had three requirements.

It had a lot of guidelines, but it had three requirements.

and one was to accommodate the city market, the other was to accommodate the current parking on the site, which was 102 spaces, and the third was to accommodate vertical mixed-use development.

So those were the three parameters that had to be addressed in a response, just as a reminder.

So, as we stand today, city staff, including Parks and Recreation, Neighborhood Development Services, Economic Development, and of course the City Attorney's Office has been engaged with the developer and their team

to come up with the documents that you have in your package tonight.

And they are extensive.

I'll walk you through the highlights of each of them.

There are two documents that are distinctive and separate.

There's a sales document that would sell the property to Market Plaza, and there's a lease document.

So in basic terms, we're selling and leasing back the market portion to allow the market to occur.

So the primary components of the sales agreement

The agreed upon sales price of the property, which is eight tenths of an acre.

That's five parcels that make up eight tenths of an acre.

There's another little over a tenth of an acre that makes up the public right of way.

So all in all we're talking about just about an acre of city property.

The agreed upon sales price is 2.4 million dollars.

And there is a closing provision within the contract that requires closing to happen

within 24 months of the signing of the agreement.

That's not tonight, but certainly whenever the agreement were to be signed, if it were to be signed.

There's considerable undergrounding of utilities that are desired and required to happen to make this project happen.

We spent a good deal of time in the latter part of last year working with the utility folks, both Dominion and others, to come up with a plan that would accommodate this and allow the

Pictures that you've seen to become reality because the pictures never show power lines.

So the undergrounding of utilities is not an insignificant sum and it's in the neighborhood of $2.5 million actually just north of that.

The parties have agreed to share that cost with the city making a contribution not to exceed $1.25 million.

The developer will make the other contribution, and any overage, whether to be an overage, would be their responsibility.

We have also negotiated the fact that there will be one entity doing the utility work, and that will be the Market Plaza LLC.

They will contract and manage the utility work, so there's not multiple parties trying to achieve the same objective.

So the city will make a contribution of up to 1.25 million.

There's been conversation about the right-of-way.

The city will maintain a permanent pedestrian easement along the First Street right-of-way between South Street and Water Street and that will remain in place.

There will be rules and regulations that the plaza will be subject to.

We included those in your document

that you got online.

There's a supplement that you received today that has some clarity to it.

There was one additional item added and that was the hours item at the very bottom.

You should have gotten that in a hard copy today.

So you can see the full rules and regulations.

Those are part of the document that will ultimately be acted upon.

So the city gets a lease for 99 years at a dollar a year for the market space and that includes the outdoor market space, includes the indoor market space on the currently proposed market plaza.

The city also has the opportunity to use the indoor and outdoor space 10 times per year at no cost and those just need to be

agreed upon in advance twice a year.

The parties would get together and talk about any particular needs the city might have to use that space.

So we do get additional times to use the space that's outside of city market, that's outside of the second day of the city market, which I'll mention in a second.

The lease incorporates maintenance and utility and cleanup costs and apportions how that happens.

We will be paying to have the plaza maintained

were the pieces of the cleaning that we do not do ourselves and Parks and Rec staff has been involved with that and we think we have a reasonable agreement there.

There were several concerns that the Planning Commission had about a month ago.

We talked about the rules and regulations, that's Exhibit T.

They also requested limiting the amount of programmed private space on the plaza to not exceed the amount of retail space in the facility or 50% of the plaza.

That request has been accommodated, whichever is less, yes.

That request has been accommodated.

They also requested limiting the number of events, these are private events, not city market events or city events, but private events to no more than 52 per year.

That request has been accommodated

within the lease as well.

They had comment about the right-of-way, which you all have already addressed, and they had a suggestion to add a second market day option.

That request has been accommodated.

There's language included in the lease that allows at such time that the city market operators, which is Parks and Rec at this point, sees fit to engage a second market.

There's demand for a second market.

There's vendors, there's customers.

that the lease does allow that to happen.

And that is on page 7, section 2.23 if you're interested in looking at that.

So that has been accommodated as well.

And I would be remiss as your Economic Development Director if I didn't mention the benefits of this project, some of which have already been said, but I'll say them again.

Permanent home for the city market for 99 years.

As you know, where we are currently with the city market, we are renting that space, so we will be renting it for much, much less at a dollar a year were this to happen.

Indoor event space for the public to enjoy on Market Saturdays as well as other special events including restroom facilities.

One of the downsides of the current market location is there are no permanent public restrooms.

This project builds in restrooms that will be for market use and makes those available.

There will be 102 public parking spaces available, basically replacing the current

Spaces that are on the lot today.

There will be additional spaces.

There are nearly 260 in the project, but 102 are guaranteed to be publicly available and not accounted for for a tenant of the building.

Given the undergrounding commitment, there will be a beautification of the two-block area that will be significant.

You've seen the renderings of the landscaping plans, so there are other site improvements that come along with the project.

Tax revenue was mentioned in the form of real property taxes, business personal property taxes, VPOL taxes, retail sales taxes, and those are estimated at $700,000 per year once the project is completed.

Class A commercial office space, which is frankly at a premium in downtown Charlottesville, this will be adding 55,000 square feet of Class A office space, and rough figures, that's 150 jobs.

easily that could fill that space.

66 new residential properties, a contribution to the affordable housing fund, and obviously, and has already been talked about with phase two being mentioned already, a catalyst for economic development on the south side of the downtown mall area, in an area that's frankly been ripe and ready for this type of development for many years.

So those are just quickly some of the key benefits.

So the item tonight is a public hearing on the sales agreement.

It does include the lease in your documents.

The lease would be acted upon at the next meeting.

The utility agreement commitment would be acted upon at the next meeting as well.

One quick question.

Of 102 parking spaces on Saturday during the market, I know that there are some spaces being allocated for market vehicles for people who are working in the market to put their vehicles before 7 o'clock.

Are those in addition to those 102 so there's still 102 open on market mornings?

Is that part of the 102?

Okay, great.

And those are free.

Yes.

Okay.

Any questions before clarification of the public hearing?

Lena Seville, 808 Altavist Avenue.

Yeah, I would like to comment on something Councilor Smith mentioned and Councilor Galvin both.

We're talking about how it's a wonderful development, but it's true, we only have for 99 years.

Saying it's a permanent location is a bit of a misnomer.

100 years may be permanent for our lifetimes, but it's not permanent.

And 100 years from now, land will be worth it.

A lot more, and it's entirely possible that we will lose the space for the city market.

When I sign a lease, very often there's a renewable aspect to the contract.

You know, at the end of the year's lease, it's automatically renewable as long as there hasn't been any kind of problems, that we don't have to file new paperwork, that, you know, if you don't say you want to leave, it's automatically renewable.

Anybody else would like to speak on this topic?

I know it seems like a really long time, you think, a hundred year old.

That's because it is.

It seems like it's a long time because it is a long time.

You know, I can't think of a place in central Virginia

maybe Lynchburg where a market has stayed in one spot for more than about 50 or 60 years.

I'd like to ask is that something you want to put in?

I don't think we really are you willing to put in?

Are you sure you don't want to put in?

And I guess I am curious, where did the 99 come from?

Is that Hong Kong?

I think that's all allowed to make an obligation.

Double the rent?

Okay.

You already doubled the rent for two days.

Two dollars a year.

There's a motion.

Which we had previously agreed would be 16 feet and that will also change exhibit B to the agreement.

Second.

Second.

In the first meeting, we'll be having a next meeting where we discuss and take action.

OK, that's fine.

What about the issue, and I may have just forgotten this, to add this to the last SUP, but about the automatic trade for the indoor space?

We took it out.

Okay, next item on the agenda is...

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establishing rules of use for the Ragged Mountain Natural Area, the city-owned land surrounding the Ragged Mountain Reservoir.

As you're aware, in September of last year, the Rivanna Water and Sewer Authority completed construction of the new Ragged Mountain Dam, which included improved access for the general public to the land.

A parking area was improved, was constructed, and an improved entrance road were completed.

City staff, along with numerous volunteers, have worked for several years

during the construction project and since construction was completed of the dam to establish new trails and improve existing trails throughout the park.

The trail system remains a work in progress at this time and staff continues to leverage our own internal resources and volunteer resources on these really important improvements.

Prior to the construction of the dam, the property was managed through an agreement with the Volunteer Ivy Creek Foundation, an arrangement that began in 1996.

During the construction process,

Staff approached the Ivy Creek Foundation to discuss their desires for their role at Ragged Mountain post-construction of the dam.

After much consideration on the part of the Ivy Creek Foundation board, they determined to focus their future efforts and resources at the Ivy Creek natural area and not at Ragged Mountain.

City Parks and Recreation staff agreed with this decision.

We have the capability and the available resources today to manage the property in a manner that was not possible almost 20 years ago.

Upon reopening of the park last year following construction, staff held a community engagement session meeting to gauge the interest in certain types of activities that might be desired and could potentially be permitted in the park.

At the time, there were significant support to allow several activities that were previously prohibited, including jogging, walking your dog on a leash, permitting bicycles, and creating shared use trails and the identification of trail areas on the land that were specifically just for hikers or maybe specifically for bikers, as well as shared use.

Such use is a departure from what was previously permitted prior to the construction of the dam.

We consulted with the Rivanna Water and Sewer Authority regarding these activities.

They agreed that the addition, if those activities were to be permitted, they would not have an adverse impact on their ability to manage the reservoir or to the quality of the water in the reservoir.

Staff also consulted with our peers in Albemarle County who support the expansion of permitted activities that are in your packet this evening at Ragged Mountain as those activities are consistent with the uses that are allowed in Albemarle County parks.

These uses would also be consistent with uses that are allowed in our city parks as well.

The map on the wall behind you outlines the approximate alignment of the trail systems throughout Ragged Mountain.

The yellow areas are trails that exist that have been either that existed prior to construction or have been built since.

The ones in orange are proposed have yet to be laid out or built and the black and white

Hashed line that kind of runs from the southwest to the northeast side of the property is actually a maintenance road that has existed for quite some time.

All of the surfaces of the trails in the park are natural surface.

There's no paved trails, no stone dust trails, no wood chip trails, with the exception being the maintenance road that has a nominal amount of gravel.

Those locations in the trails continue to provide a unique opportunity for city residents

of a natural area very, very close to the city limits with some unique stands of forest as well.

We are here, staff are here this evening to answer any questions you may have regarding the proposed rules of use as well as to point out that also on the wall behind you, many months ago we had a piece of chainsaw art donated to us.

It was a bear holding a fish.

was placed at a juxtaposition on one of the trails in the unnatural area not too long ago, and he has gone missing.

So if anyone knows or sees the bear, we will happily provide amnesty if it would be returned.

Yeah, I do.

I have questions.

Two things about the sharing.

One is the birders and the other is dogs off the leash.

And I'm sure, you know, as we use the parks around the city and out in the county more and more, more people go out there, more people like to bring their dogs and they let them run.

We had a situation where down in Riverview, which I think you

Did you get emails about that, the lady that was concerned about it?

Yes.

Okay.

So what do you do when people have their dogs out at Ragged Mountain and they let them loose?

I mean, you would never get an officer out there in time to do anything.

I think it's very similar to what happens in our parks across the city now when people let their dogs run free and not unleash in parks other than Riverview Park, which happens a lot.

By the time the animal control officer is called and may arrive, the situation has disappeared.

The individuals have disappeared.

We would just ask folks to follow the rules, be respectful of them, and be respectful of other trail users.

and in the great 99% of the cases, in my experience, those people do that.

And some people will let their dogs run, big dogs, and they think it's kind of funny when a dog gets up on a person and they say, well, he's not going to hurt you.

Well, that's not what the person who's being pawed thinks.

But it is a little different because it's 20 minutes out, approximately.

Well, all of our parks are signed appropriately that your pets must be on leash with the exception

Well, Counselor Szakos mentioned self-policing.

Maybe if people understood, if they could get a picture on their smartphone or any other device they might have, perhaps that would be a way of enforcement

I ran Ivy Creek Natural Area for 14 years, believe me, it won't work.

But, I think it's really important to understand why these rules were imposed in the first place and at the time, Ragged Mountain Natural Area was a

probably the most significant, ecologically significant piece of land anywhere in this region.

In fact, the Smithsonian came down to do a research project on eight different natural areas in Charlottesville and Albemarle and found that Ragged Mountain was the very best ecologically because of its protected topography, basically.

In fact, the wood thrush was their indicator species, which is a migrating songbird, which had been in decline for decades.

And one of the, I think a really interesting sort of observation on, just on my part and my neighbor's parts is, I live in Fry's Spring, which is not right next to Ragon Mountain, but it's in the same sort of

area and I've lived there for 30 years and every summer we look forward to the wood thrush.

Do you know what the wood thrush is?

I mean it's the most melodic bird in the summer.

I mean it's what the fact that Charlottesville would provide that kind of habitat for and that kind of bird song in an urban setting is just spectacular.

It's what makes Charlottesville so spectacular, you know, bird song itself but the wood thrush in particular and I bet Greenbrier has very similar experiences having also great wildlife habitat

And I know that's anecdotal, but I think you cannot underestimate what our habitat contributes to our community, even if you're not right in it.

And we are incredibly blessed with

that just those aspects of nature in combination with our urban setting.

And we will lose.

We lose those kinds of things when we lose this kind of habitat.

And you just have to understand that.

We chip away at it.

We'll pass any number of clean air solutions and then clear cut 200 acres of woods.

I think at some point you've just got to

put in appropriate balance these factors.

So granted Ragged Mountain has not the immense, it doesn't have as many ecological services as it did at one time for our community.

It still has a lot.

They're fantastic and they've been actually looking out at Ragged Mountain and are finding some interesting things.

I do have degrees in those fields but I don't specialize the way those folks do so it is very good to have the people who really get down to the nitty-gritty go out there.

I know they have found

some pockets of things and some individual species of things.

I would probably like to invite them to speak more specifically about what they found and where they found it and how they would feel about the impact.

But I'm not sure if before the city took over this level of responsibility, if, and you might know if Ivy Creek had ever done this before, or if these were some of the first, but we are trying to do that too.

We didn't do the level that they did because we weren't actually, we were very specific in where our trails for just hikers were going to go.

So we did it at that level.

This is a more in-depth and I think they're looking deeper and are finding things that we didn't find.

We identified 135 species of birds and the plant pockets and the biomes and the whole bit.

but which we can contribute and I don't know if you have access to that data but you know I'm talking to them and they're going this is there's some significant stuff here so I we've got to understand that it's again you know Ivy Creek

of all the parks, city, county parks, and both city and county, I mean, what, I have 50-something parks.

It is the only one before Ragon Mountain where you could go and not encounter a dog or a bike or a runner that, you know, I think even since those years, there's a real recognition of how important this opportunity is to people in terms of enriching your life in terms of quiet meditation

and, you know, it's even more so than when I was out there.

And to eliminate one of the few, few options we have for that, I think will seriously impact the quality of life in Charlottesville.

I am very opposed to these changes.

I just don't, I think we have so few of them and you know, I've watched, I was on the committee for Pretty Creek and watched that opportunity open.

The Byram opened up for mountain biking.

All of them allow dogs.

Pretty Creek allows horses.

But I think, you know, that, I think it was David Stackhouse who said

We need this because we are a hotbed of runners.

I know that because when we first opened Ragon Mountain, we'd get the whole UVA running team until we had to tell them, you cannot do this.

You just better get out of the way fast.

These are not necessarily compatible

uses.

So, you know, dogs are another whole thing.

We recently had the incident on Prospect with a child who got attacked by a police dog because she was afraid of dogs.

She was terrified of dogs.

She made the motion that one makes when you're, you know, you're afraid and the dog attacked her because she made that motion.

I mean, there are risks involved with being around dogs, particularly for people

who are terrified of dogs.

And it is the third biggest fear after spiders and snakes for people.

Why not?

This is a question of the rules.

This is a what?

And you had a public meeting.

I wasn't even able to go to the public meeting and I helped create that place.

I think what you have to understand too, and I've worked with them.

I love you guys.

You guys are wonderful.

You do really good trails for mountain bikes.

You do really good trails in general, but we heard a lot from you because you've been working with parks.

You had kind of the inside scoop.

I was part of the email today to the naturalists.

Was that their sort of first opportunity to really be

I think that we sometimes overuse public hearings.

We do do public notice.

This is a public meeting.

We had public comment at the beginning of this meeting.

I do support the kind of principle of these rules.

and because they're not specific about which trails are bike and which trails are shared and which trails are just walkers, I really just want to express my concern that as a walker and not a biker or a runner that it can be disruptive when you're walking in nature and a bike comes tearing down behind you, especially when it's a very narrow trail and somebody has to run into the bushes because it's inevitably either the walker or if the walker isn't paying attention then the bike

is injured because they end up falling.

So I just want to make sure that we have plenty of trails in this area that are just for people walking and running.

That part doesn't bother me because a running person can slow down and go around.

But the bikes, I think, I do support the use of bikes up there.

I think that there's, like as we see here, there's plenty of trail to go around and I want to make sure that there is space that if the trails are wide enough that they can be used for both.

but that we have places, especially the narrower, more rustic trails that are just for pedestrians.

I do support dogs on leashes.

I think a lot of us walk more when we have a dog because the dogs are the ones who encourage us to get out in nature.

I really hope that we can enforce the rule about leashes.

It's very disruptive if dogs are running wild.

disruptive to wildlife, disruptive to the reservoir, disruptive to walkers, disruptive to bikes, disruptive to the other dogs.

I appreciate everyone's heartfelt sentiments and everyone speaking from experience and also trying to listen to the public.

And I do support these rules changes.

I think what it reflects is that we

As I mentioned earlier tonight, we are growing our recreational outdoor spaces.

We're above the national mean for open space, and I find that something to celebrate.

I see these young people in the room, and they obviously do outdoors activities with their parents.

I'm seeing that this is an opportunity for more families to actually

get together on bikes, hiking, walking with their dogs.

And also I see greater opportunities for our school children in the south side of town to have access to an incredible amenity, especially when we are seeing problems with obesity.

And it is a balance of that contemplative versus active space.

We need to be active as well as contemplative and right now I can see there's such variety of trail opportunity that you can do both.

When this comes online, it's gonna come online soon, we'll have the East McIntyre Park coming on soon, at some point Biscuit Run.

This will be a phenomenal network of bike

facilities that are all off-road.

So I'm quite excited about it and I think it means that we are a city that is literally moving.

Our children will be moving and we will be in nature.

We will be in nature at the same time.

So I applaud everybody's efforts.

I support

the multi-use variety because it means that many different people are going to be using this.

And the rules are gonna matter because we gotta broker those differences.

We're gonna make sure the conflicts are resolved.

But to prohibit diversity to me is not the solution either.

I also support the new rules.

I do have some concerns that we ought to have a public hearing as requested by two customers.

I personally support the new users, and I would be open to a public hearing, but not the way to progress in the action of the next meeting.

So go ahead and have the first motion and the second tonight.

Yes.

Other comments?

Is there a second?

Second.

We will move to the next meeting.

We will have public hearing also.

I would hope that we will advertise the public hearing to people who will say they are to come and say.

A first reading just means you need two meetings to pass it.

And the first one, all you need is a motion and a second.

So it moves on to the next meeting.

Thank you.

I don't think we need a break.

Do we need one?

We can take a break.

Oh, okay.

Oh, that's right.

It's warm up here.

Well, I'm glad I had a jacket.

?

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Dede Smith.

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?

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Dede Smith

Dede Smith.

Dede Smith.

Dede

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Dede

Dede Smith, Dede Smith

It's this advisory panel.

Many of you may remember those of you who were just coming on Council at the time when the City Manager at the time, Gary O'Connell, tasked our current City Manager, Mr. Jones and I, with looking at various types of citizen advisory groups.

We chose this particular model and Council appointed a group of people.

We've been working with them for the past several years.

Recently, I put a proposal in front of Council to add

a UVA representative to that panel.

That came about as a result of the discussion that I was having with the former chapter president of the NAACP there on campus who had an interest specifically in joining the group.

I was at that time that council wanted to take the opportunity to revisit the panel, the panel's work, and what the panel should look like as they move forward.

So having heard that concern, I

developed three recommendations that I wanted to share with council.

Ultimately, it's your decision on what, if anything, you want to do with this advisory panel.

I will say that regardless of what you do, there's a tremendous opportunity for whatever this group will look like in the future.

As you know, President Obama appointed a task force of subject matter experts last spring to look at policing in the 21st century.

That task force published a report in May.

and there are six pillars that come from that report and a series of recommendations that are very comprehensive and I think serve as a substantive roadmap for American policing as we move forward.

I think whatever you do with this group, that substantive roadmap should be a part of their work.

I think it clearly defines goals and expectations.

The outcomes are measurable.

The first recommendation or option that I would offer to counsel

is that you retain the Citizens Advisory Panel and Human Rights Commission as separate entities, but that you specifically direct them to review the 21st century report to work closely with the police department in implementing the strategies that we're able to implement immediately from that report.

I will tell you that a number of those strategies require some human assets and fiscal assets that we'll have to work towards, but there are others

that I think we as a community can begin to work through collaboratively.

So that's the first option.

The second option is one that has been talked about.

I've seen some email traffic back and forth with current CAP members about this particular recommendation, and that is the possibility of merging the existing body, the existing CAP with the Human Rights Commission.

I think if council does that, again, you have an opportunity to use that or direct that that task force report be used.

as the substantive roadmap as that single group moves forward.

And the last recommendation that I offer you, certainly council can think through other recommendations on their own, is that we leave the panel in existence as it is, as it was initially pointed, revisit the composition of it, hopefully add a UVA member, and then again specifically direct that panel to use the task force report.

But also perhaps give them a role in police recruitment and selection.

Retention strategies, perhaps training, enhancing police community relationships, and those are just some examples of the very specific direction I think the panel can and should be given if council chooses to leave them intact.

So Mr. Mayor, members of council, those are my recommendations as to the options that I believe you have.

There may be others that you think might be more beneficial.

I would ask this, Mr. Mayor, whatever council chooses to do, that before you vote to do that,

Okay, some comments, let me start the comments myself.

I put this for your third alternative, which is to add student community charge

and change the name to include police in there.

This is rather embarrassing, nevertheless, you don't know what it stands for.

I'm not so sure it would be oversight as much as to work collaboratively with us to implement those strategies.

They're fairly straightforward.

Yes, sir.

I will.

So the first option, and again, these are just my recommendations.

The first option would be to leave the CAP and the Human Rights Commission as separate bodies to direct them to utilize the 21st century policing report and the six pillars and recommendations that are contained therein.

and then to work collaboratively with the police department as we move forward to implement those strategies independent of each other, the CAP and the Human Rights Commission separately.

The second recommendation would be to merge the two bodies.

Again, use the 21st Century Policing Report as a substantive roadmap.

And then the third option would be to leave the Citizens Advisory Panel as it currently exists at a UVA student member, perhaps even change the name,

but give them some very defined responsibilities to assist the police department in recruitment, selection, retention, training, policy recommendation, community engagement, and also implementation of the 21st century strategies.

I think if anything that I think all members of the group would appreciate and embrace is clear direction on what their role is.

I think that's probably the greatest need

and has been one of the greatest needs since it was formed.

I would just say one comment about the name.

I know that there were some conversations and perhaps they were conversations between the manager and staff.

We did not want that name to reflect or create the perception that that entity was a part of the police chief so that the police chief drove them and directed them to act.

We wanted their actions to be independent

I would certainly serve as a technical assistance provider to them, but we didn't want people to think that this was just another arm of the police department.

Yeah, I would recommend number two, merge the two, and I think, well, I'll let the other members of the panel speak for themselves, but in the 20 months I've been on there, I have received no training.

I have never been tasked to do anything.

I got an email from a fellow who was on there for six years.

He says the same with him.

Even though we have tried to make our wishes known, so I would say that it would be more beneficial to sort of start from scratch, and I would do that through number two and give the members of the panel an opportunity to stay or go.

They've been waiting, they've been waiting a long time to do something and they've gotten nothing basically.

But I would suggest that if it, whatever goes, they have to be trained.

I don't want these citizens to be put in a situation where somebody thrusts a microphone in front of them and they might say the wrong word, they might blurt something out.

Chief, you did an excellent job in the last year and a half.

The city's had some incredible

difficult situations to go through.

You've handled yourself very well, not just locally, but nationally.

This CAP is not capable of that, and it won't be for some time.

And that's the risk, because I was there at UVA when the students were after you, basically.

They're angry, they're upset, they've already

I've heard from a couple of members of the public since this came onto our agenda, and I've asked a couple of other folks, including people on the Human Rights Commission and on the Police, or the Citizens Advisory Panel, who were not eager to have the two combined, that really felt that there ought to be, even if there hasn't been, a clear distinction between the two.

And I'm wondering if option number one might not get at what you're looking at, which is

without merging them, actually giving the panel, in addition I agree with the new name, Citizens Police Advisory Panel, direction and a document that they can use to frame what they're doing and some clarity that what they're doing is not police work or speaking on behalf of the police department but sort of acting as kind of a wall to bounce things off of for the police department and for the city council.

on issues that this document talks about or that the community wants to talk about.

And I think that the piece of kind of building community relations with the police, which is something you're working very hard on, is something that that panel could help with.

I think that I used the word oversight earlier, probably as an oversight, but we do, I think, hear a lot of voices in the community wanting some sort of

backstop for the community in relation to the police.

And I think that this panel is not that, and perhaps the Human Rights Commission is that, but that's a different issue.

So I think keeping those separate probably clarifies both.

Yes, I would combine your alternatives one and three.

In other words, you keep the Human Rights Commission separate from the Citizens Advisory Panel, but that you take it as an opportunity for two advisory bodies to the council to work together jointly on the COPS report.

That is an excellent report.

I'm so glad you're focusing on that.

But I also think, so that's like a near-term task that they could be doing, working together with the Human Rights Commission on.

but then I do see that there's that bigger role that you've mentioned in item three where they could be assisting in giving the police department some guidance or feedback on recruitment, retention, training, enhancing police-community relations.

So I think it's a bit of both in my mind.

I don't see it either or.

I am concerned about the Human Rights Commission losing its identity and simply becoming strictly all about police

And that's not what I don't think anybody wants.

There's so many other issues that we would benefit from having a Human Rights Commission to help us with.

But I think that's why having that very specific task, though, to work on that, the President's Commission's report, is a really great idea.

And it would focus them and give them really good opportunities for discussion.

So that's what I would suggest.

Sweet.

Yeah, I have yet another idea.

And that would be to have just certain members.

I mean, have just some sort of overlap with the Human Rights Commission, not the whole thing.

but maybe some subgroup or, you know, but just some kind of liaison between the two to sort of carry over between the two bodies.

The other thing that actually we did with the Department of Social Services Advisory Board is we started meeting in a public place that's easily gotten to.

When I was on CAP my first year, I mean, it's really hard to get there, to go through all those halls and, you know,

There's plenty of city spaces.

So I think that would make a big difference for just community engagement.

There was one other thing I thought of.

Oh, and actually also be thinking, I think UVA is a great idea to include, but really be perhaps revisit, and I don't know what the ordinance says now, so I'm saying this theoretically, but really who should be on this panel

given our current situation.

Can we see an ordinance?

Because we probably have to change something, wouldn't we?

If we're going to rethink the resolution.

Or resolution, okay.

I can never keep those two.

I'm sorry, but is there somewhere in our city documents that describes the Citizens Advisory Panel?

I believe there is.

We can go back and review that.

And it sounds like we have enough direction tonight, I think,

Let me just add one more comment.

I could agree with Ms. Galvin's idea combining one and three because it does both things for us.

But I think it ought to be an independent body.

Mr. Mayor, can I make one other comment just for the public's benefit and particularly in response to something that Mr. Fenwick said that was really important.

There was a very difficult dialogue on campus last spring, but that dialogue is what's resulted in some really great relationships now with the police department through both the NAACP branch on campus and the Black Student Alliance who will be doing a mentoring project with in the coming months.

from conflict came opportunity and I think that's something we all should be very proud of and that's why I want them to be part and connected to this group.

I just like to follow up with something that Councillor Smith said of the location of the meetings.

I would really, I don't know if there's a meeting between now and December but

Yes, ma'am.

And just sort of another thought of somebody else to include is when we're up here and we hear this great discussion about adult data, which the DMC task force which deals with juveniles

is just grappling with, you know, can we do this?

Can we not do this?

This would be a great avenue for somehow figuring that out.

And I just think we see things.

And we are continuing to try to find funding to do that adult data analysis.

I hope you had enough feedback.

I did, Mr. Mayor.

Thank you.

Hi, I'm Maeve Curtin.

I'm the student liaison from the UVA Student Council to the City Council and I just want to echo that I think it's extremely important that if we are going to have this sort of advisory body that we do in fact have a student representative on it.

I think the

energy and direction that we've seen channeled in our community through the NAACP, through the Black Student Alliance, through Student Council and through other organizations on grounds in response to some of the issues that occurred last year has been incredibly positive and I think this would be a wonderful step in the right direction into ensuring students feel like they are part of this community and that they do have a voice so I'm really happy to hear that most of you guys are in

are in fact in support of it and that it's a recommendation that has been brought forward to you.

So thank you.

Yes, to create the space for a position.

Well then I'd like to make a motion that we create a space for a student position on the Citizens Advisory Panel.

Are we in agreement for doing that as well?

Citizens Police Advisory Panel?

He said that was just some of the discussion.

Well, maybe we should actually ask the Citizens Advisory Panel.

Second.

Then Mr. Brown, does it make any sense to do this?

I think so.

I think it would be good.

Okay, great.

Just for clarification, because all we did was vote on an idea.

We need to go back to item number 1G.

Okay.

Mayor Huja?

Yes.

Yeah, and it's on C-3.

and it's for item D that talks about, or C2, it talks about the director may waive the requirement for a public meeting upon a determination that that meeting is likely to, it goes on.

It's, you go Section 3441, and it's C2.

And it begins with a Director May wave.

It's about two-thirds down that Section 2.

It's about waiving the requirement to meet.

And my concern about that relates to the fact that when we saw this ordinance previously, there were a set of regulations that accompanied it.

And that set of regulations had three different tiers for establishing when a waiver would occur and when it wouldn't.

for rezonings and special use permits.

We had all agreed, or a majority of council had agreed at the last meeting that this would not apply to by-right zoning, and so all language related to preliminary or final site plans or major subdivisions would be deleted.

But these three tiers really gave a precise explanation as to when the waiver would apply to a PUD or an SUP.

and I would request, and since we don't have that in front of us and Mr. Brown was kind enough to give me his paper copy of those regulations, but the point where the Director of Naval Development Services would be presumed to have waived the meeting automatically is for very, very small PUDs.

for example.

Where discretion comes in a little bit more stronger, it's when there's a modification to an already approved PUD or an already approved special use permit.

But applications for which a community meeting will be required in all such situations, no waivers, were for original rezonings and original special use permits.

And that's not clear in the ordinance that we're looking at tonight.

those distinctions.

And I ask that we defer voting on this until we get these regulations modified to be in keeping with the deletion of the buy right review.

But then these regulations be included.

And then you could write, the director may waive the requirements for a public meeting as per the regulations.

Those changes can certainly be brought back to you next time.

Is there a consensus about the idea of providing some type of notice when a waiver is given?

I know that was an idea you mentioned earlier.

No nodding.

I like that.

Now, what I'm

confused about, per what we talked about last meeting, was the point at which a community meeting is triggered.

Right.

So the way that the regulations read last time was that there would always be a community

triggered when it was a rezoning or special use permit and they were the original.

They weren't amendments to those things.

They would always be triggered.

Right, and I remember that conversation, but I thought we were talking about community meetings for developments that might not otherwise trigger one now.

And it seemed to me that's what the community was concerned about is these things just pop up, and they never even knew they were coming.

Just to be clear, to reiterate something I think that was discussed before, these types of community meetings would be in addition to any legally required meetings.

There's nothing in here that allows a waiver of a meeting that is legally required.

These are in addition to that.

And I think these are contemplated as coming much earlier.

If we could have these regulations updated to be in sync with the intention of making it apply to the PUDs and SUPs but

Do we agree to that change?

Rebecca Quinn, 1044th Street in the city.

I'd like to point out in this ordinance that you just deferred, the term community meeting is used nine times.

The term public meeting is used once, and it's only in that sentence you were discussing.

When terms, is it a different term?

Is it intended to be a public meeting or a community meeting?

Thank you.

Thank you.

Anybody else would like to speak?

My understanding is that a public meeting relates to public hearings, which are legally required.

Any other questions, comments by members of the Council?

Anybody else?