Central Virginia
City of Charlottesville
City Council Meeting 9/16/2013
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City Council Meeting
9/16/2013
CALL TO ORDER
AWARDS/RECOGNITIONS
MATTERS BY THE PUBLIC
COUNCIL RESPONSES TO MATTERS BY THE PUBLIC
1. CONSENT AGENDA* (Items removed from the consent agenda will be considered at the end of the regular agenda.)
2. PUBLIC HEARING / ORDINANCE* Abandonment of 1625 Brandywine Trail Access Easement (1st of 2 readings)
3. REPORT Belmont Bridge Update
4. ORDINANCE* Supporting Equal Access to Employee Benefits for All Lawfully Married City Employees (1st of 2 readings)
5. REPORT Rivanna Quarterly Report
6. REPORT Noise Ordinance Update
7. REPORT Crisis Intervention Team Program Update
8. RESOLUTION* 1335 Carlton Avenue (PACE Center) Special Use Permit (SUP) (1st of 1 reading)
MATTERS BY THE PUBLIC
CALL TO ORDER
00:01:52
Dede Smith.
SPEAKER_11
00:02:47
Music playing...
00:03:16
Music playing...
00:03:45
Music playing
00:04:08
I call to order the city council meeting of September 16th.
SPEAKER_03
00:04:42
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:04:59
Roll call.
SPEAKER_19
00:05:02
Mr. Norris?
00:05:02
Here.
00:05:03
Ms. Smith?
00:05:03
Here.
00:05:04
Mr. Huja?
00:05:05
Yes.
00:05:05
Ms. Szakos?
00:05:06
Here.
00:05:06
Ms. Galvin?
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
00:05:07
Here.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:05:09
Here are a number of awards and proclamations.
AWARDS/RECOGNITIONS
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:05:12
and I want to start the proclamation to be read by Mr Norris for these charming ladies sitting in front of me, so, and gentlemen.
SPEAKER_30
00:05:23
So, Mr Norris.
00:05:28
Seevilsa Broso Day, whereas Charlottesville's census report of 2010 recognizes that Charlottesville's Hispanic and Latino populations have doubled over the past decade to 2,223 people, jumping from 2% to over 5% of the city's population, and whereas the city of Charlottesville in 2009 established a dialogue on race,
00:05:48
in the efforts of engaging every segment of our community in open, honest and ongoing discussion on race, racism and diversity and whereas the city of Charlottesville recognizes that immigrant community members are the bearers of distinct and valuable cultural histories and traditions and whereas the city recognizes that Charlottesville is increasingly becoming a culturally rich and diverse place
00:06:08
and wishes to encourage the local Hispanic community to publicly share with ease the rich cultural heritage of each and every country that it represents and whereas Charlottesville recognizes that we are a nation of immigrants and that the local Hispanic community contributes a great deal to our city
00:06:23
and whereas the city of Charlottesville supports Lumenaria Seaville, a place where family, culture and community coalesce through the arts without borders and Sin Barreras, a local nonprofit link between immigrant peoples and the services and opportunities that are available to them and joining together to bring Charlottesville its first annual Latin American music and folklore dance festival here named Seaville Sabroso.
00:06:47
and whereas we are on this occasion acknowledging our Latino immigrants in honor of National Hispanic Heritage Month and extend the spirit of cultural inclusiveness to all of our immigrant community members in appreciation of the cultural richness they bring to our community.
00:07:03
Now therefore be it resolved that we, the members of Charlottesville City Council,
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:07:13
Charlottesville City Council hereby proclaim September 21st, 2013 as a sub-roso day in city of Charlottesville.
00:07:22
It's signed on the 16th of September.
00:07:24
Is there someone here to receive that proclamation?
00:07:45
I'm very happy to have you here.
00:07:53
We'd love to have you talk if you'd like to say something.
00:07:56
We're sharing this.
SPEAKER_11
00:07:57
We look forward to a particularly beautiful evening.
00:07:59
That's great.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
00:08:00
Why don't you guys all scooch back in?
00:08:04
Oh, get in front.
00:08:06
That's the smallest person.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
00:08:10
Oh, that's gorgeous.
00:08:12
Oh, lovely.
SPEAKER_19
00:08:15
One, two, and a half, three, four, three
SPEAKER_13
00:08:33
Thanks to everyone.
00:08:36
And a special thanks to Simba Reras and Fanny and Clay, Fanny and Clay, who have worked, we've been working together on this event and it's been a wonderful experience collaborating with you all.
00:08:54
We look forward to the years to come.
00:08:55
As the daughter of a mother from Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico, and a father from Loray, Virginia in the Shenandoah Valley,
00:09:03
and as Director of Luminaria Civile, housed in the McGuffey Arts Center, our city, Casa de Cultura, House of Culture.
00:09:11
It's been a long time dream of mine to be a part of creating a space where the rich cultural heritage of Mexico and our sister countries of Latin America can flourish and grow in Charlottesville.
00:09:24
To influence, educate, and create an artistic bridge between cultures and this place we all call home.
00:09:31
It is an honor to be here tonight with my friends from Mexico, Columbia, Ecuador, El Salvador, Peru, and the United States to accept this proclamation from the city in honor of Cívos El Rosso Festival.
00:09:48
During a time
00:09:49
We are celebrating Hispanic Heritage Month all across the U.S. with traditional food, music, dancing, and community.
00:09:58
These are the things that tie us together as cultures, people, and as a human family.
00:10:04
When we are rooted in where we are from, then we can have confidence in where we are going.
00:10:12
I would like to say thank you on behalf of Luminaria Seaville,
00:10:17
and Sin Barreras.
00:10:20
From the bottom of our hearts to our city partners to Charlene Green from the Dialogue on Race, Joe Rice, the Communications Coordinator, City Manager Maurice Jones, Mayor Huja, Vice Mayor Szakos and all the city council members for coming together on such short notice to support this very special occasion for this Hispanic community.
00:10:45
We look forward to seeing you all there.
00:10:48
this Saturday the 21st from 3 to 9 and we look forward to celebrating this momentous event in the years to come.
00:10:57
Thank you.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:10:57
Would you tell us where it is?
SPEAKER_13
00:10:59
It's at the McGuffey Art Center this coming Saturday from 3 to 9 p.m. on the McGuffey lawn.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:11:05
Thank you.
SPEAKER_36
00:11:05
And could everybody who's here to support... Just wanted to just reiterate on behalf of the directors, officers, and members of CIMBARERAS, we're very honored and appreciate
00:11:23
in such short time, your all's willingness to back this annual event and we're looking forward to continuing to educate and bridge gaps between the Latino community and the general communities to foster more and more diversity in the city of Charlottesville, so thank you very much.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:11:46
Thank you, as Ms. Smith asked, anybody who supports this idea, would you like to stand up?
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
00:11:51
Thank you very much, we appreciate that.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:12:28
I'd like to read a proclamation for 2013 World Alzheimer Month Proclamation.
00:12:35
Whereas the nation and the city of Charlottesville observe World Alzheimer Awareness Month during the month of September, whereas Alzheimer's disease, a progressive neurodegenerative brain disorder, tragically rots individuals of their memories and leads to progressive mental and physical impairments.
00:12:55
who has more than 5 million Americans have Alzheimer's disease with as many as 200,000 of those individuals under age 65 who have younger onset of Alzheimer's.
00:13:08
Alzheimer's disease is the sixth leading cause of death in the U.S., more than prostate cancer and breast cancer.
00:13:15
Whereas the human cost of Alzheimer's disease is staggering.
00:13:19
In 2012, $15.4 million
00:13:23
caregivers provided estimated 17.5 billion hours of unpaid care contribution to the nation valued at $216 billion.
00:13:34
Whereas every 68 seconds, someone in America develops Alzheimer's disease.
00:13:41
And by mid-century, someone will develop Alzheimer's every 33 seconds.
00:13:46
Whereas we seek to recognize the individuals, families, friends, and caregivers dealing with Alzheimer's disease
00:13:53
and researchers who are seeking a cause or cure.
00:13:56
Whereas Celia Scharles recognizes the effort of the Alzheimer's Association to raise funds to support research and promote awareness for Alzheimer's disease and ask its citizens to find ways to do a little big thing.
00:14:11
in the fight to end the disease.
00:14:13
Now, therefore, I stand to say, which I do hereby proclaim the month of September 2013 as World Alzheimer's Awareness Month, signed September 16th.
00:14:24
Is anybody here to receive the proclamation?
SPEAKER_15
00:14:44
I want to say thank you so much to the council and to the leadership of the city of Charlottesville that you're willing to provide your leadership as elected officials and administrative officials to increase the awareness of the growing impact of Alzheimer's disease and dementia.
00:15:01
It's an epidemic.
00:15:03
It is the health epidemic of this decade and the next decade.
00:15:08
And with your help, we can ensure that everyone in Charlottesville, including all of these wonderful people here, one of whom has a walked-in Alzheimer's shirt on.
00:15:17
Thank you so much.
00:15:19
that all the residents know about the programs and services we offer at the Alzheimer's Association to help individuals with Alzheimer's as well as caregivers.
00:15:30
This is a disease of families.
00:15:33
And they know about the training and education.
00:15:35
We train all first responders in our area to more effectively deal with families who may be having Alzheimer's and dementia issues.
00:15:44
to know about the research participation opportunities.
00:15:48
All of us can be part of a research study.
00:15:51
And to know that we need you in the fight against Alzheimer's.
00:15:55
So I invite everyone to join us October 12th, Saturday, in Lee Park for a walk to end Alzheimer's here in Charlottesville.
00:16:03
And I leave you with the firm conviction from the Alzheimer's Association that
00:16:08
Together, we will have a world without Alzheimer's.
00:16:13
Thank you so much.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:16:23
I'd like to ask Sid and Shirley Citizen
SPEAKER_00
00:16:38
On behalf of the Sierra Club Keep the Band Coalition and Citizens of Charlottesville, we would like to present the city with this certificate of appreciation to recognize your steadfast support of Virginia's moratorium on uranium mining.
00:16:57
Toxic waste and radioactive contamination created by the extraction and processing of uranium have been linked to increases in leukemia, kidney disease, and other severe health problems.
00:17:13
And the contaminant failure at the first proposed site could result in the contamination of local groundwater sources and downstream drinking water sources
00:17:26
for over 1.9 million people.
SPEAKER_38
00:17:31
It is crucial that we continue our work to protect our water, health, and the economy from efforts to overturn the ban.
00:17:39
Virginia uranium spent $572,607 lobbying Virginia public officials last year, the most of any group in Virginia during each of the last five years.
00:17:53
As Virginia uranium exerts pressure on Governor McDonald to create a framework for mining,
00:18:00
We hope you will continue to stand with us in protecting the ban by sending a letter urging him to take no regulatory action.
00:18:10
Thank you.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:18:11
Thank you.
00:18:43
I have another award.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
00:18:51
I'm guessing homework needs to be done.
00:18:55
I'm kind of hoping for a dance.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:19:00
I have an announcement for another award.
00:19:02
We are pleased to announce the Virginia Recreation and Parks Society Awards to the city of Charlottesville Parks and Recreation Department with the best new program in the state.
00:19:12
Award for population of 25 to 50,000.
00:19:16
And for night hike and campfire program, the program for which the award is given.
00:19:24
And is there anybody here to receive that award?
00:19:30
Well, we have been given an award, so people are doing well.
00:19:35
I want to thank our staff for this work.
00:19:38
Thank you.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
00:19:41
I'd like to announce the 2013 Better Business Challenge.
00:19:49
The Better Business Challenge is a friendly points-based competition aimed at helping our non-residential community partners, including businesses, schools, churches, and non-profits, achieve greater resource and cost efficiency and sustainability.
00:20:00
More than that, the challenge is a way to bring our business community and consumer citizens together to help us be better environmental stewards of our community and further goals of local
00:20:12
Resiliency.
00:20:13
This nearly year-long program will spur innovation and efficiency and continue to galvanize local leaders around smart and sustainable business.
00:20:20
The easiest way to find out more is to check out the program website at www.cvillebetterbiz.com.
00:20:28
City Council encourages your participation in this fun local challenge to show off what sustainable practices you already are involved with and learn what other strategies might make good business sense.
00:20:37
And is Terry Kent here to receive this or to make a comment on this?
00:20:41
Terry Kent, otherwise known as Better World Betty
SPEAKER_01
00:20:47
All right.
00:20:48
Hello, Council.
00:20:48
Thank you very much for inviting me up here to talk about the Next Better Business Challenge.
00:20:53
We're very excited to launch this program again for businesses.
00:20:57
The first round, 2011-2012, had 100 businesses participating, saving thousands of dollars on reduction of energy and water and waste.
00:21:07
So we're very proud of our businesses, and we're very grateful for the city's support of this program.
00:21:13
So thank you all.
00:21:14
It's a free program for businesses and non-profits and churches and schools.
00:21:20
Open enrollment, we invite everyone out to find out more about it at Main Street Arena this week.
00:21:25
5.30 to 7.30, we're having a happy hour.
00:21:28
And then the first Lunch and Learn kicks off October 3rd with LED lighting savings focus and energy.
00:21:35
efficiency.
00:21:36
So we're looking forward to a lot of cost savings, more great innovation from businesses, and a community-wide effort that's very important in terms of environmental stewardship and really building our local economy and resiliency.
00:21:49
Thank you.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
00:21:51
Alright, and I have four announcements of upcoming events.
00:22:00
The Charlottesville High School Orchestra is performing at the Free Expression Monument September 19th.
00:22:05
The String Ensemble will perform concerts in Bison Saint and Paris, France next June.
00:22:10
Come join us for our kickoff announcement and performance in the downtown mall next Thursday, September 19th at 1 p.m. in front of the Free Speech Wall.
00:22:18
So that's very exciting.
00:22:21
On October 3rd will be the next Our Town meeting when city council goes on the road.
00:22:26
It will be in the Woollen Mills neighborhood at the Woollen Mills Chapel.
00:22:30
From 6 to 8 p.m. childcare and dinner will be provided for free.
00:22:33
It's an all public comment, no time limit chance for people in the Woolen Mills neighborhood to talk to council.
00:22:40
and then also on Saturday, the 28th of September, my daughter's birthday, there will be a vegetarian festival which many of you have come to know and love and expect at Lee Park from 11 o'clock to five o'clock.
00:22:55
Great food, a lot of vendors, you can learn more about vegetarian eating or cooking and that evening will be the City Scholarship Program Gala at the Paramount Theater.
00:23:06
So both of those are wonderful things, I hope people will come.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
00:23:10
I just have two announcements.
00:23:15
Government Services Day, the city of Charlottesville's Government Services Day is held every year in the fall on the historic downtown mall.
00:23:23
This event gives the community a chance to meet and talk with dozens of city departments and partner agencies about a wide scope of city services and programs.
00:23:31
This year's event will take place on Thursday, September 26, from 10 to 2, 10 a.m. to 2 p.m.
00:23:39
City staff and other representatives will be available to answer questions and distribute useful information to help citizens become more informed about their city.
00:23:48
People of all ages are invited to participate in everything Government Services Day has to offer, including interactive displays, exciting demonstrations, educational tours, special guests, and so much more.
00:24:01
So again, that's September 26th.
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That's a Thursday.
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from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. right on the downtown mall.
00:24:10
Second announcement is Charlottesville Community Career Conference returns this fall.
00:24:14
On Tuesday, October 8th, from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. at John Paul Jones Arena, job seekers will have an exclusive opportunity to network and discover how they can move up the career ladder.
00:24:25
The Career Conference will be an all-day event focusing on how job seekers can
00:24:30
market themselves to top employers in the local community.
00:24:33
For the first time, the Career Conference will also host the Charlottesville Regional Chamber of Commerce's Business Expo, giving job seekers the opportunity to learn about open positions in Charlottesville as well as connect with professionals in the business community.
00:24:48
The Career Conference is free and open to the public.
00:24:50
However, pre-registration is highly encouraged.
00:24:54
For more information or to pre-register, go to www.Charlottesville.org.
00:24:59
We also have some spots available for employers interested in participating.
00:25:04
For more information, please contact Holly Lee at leeh at Charlottesville.org or call her at 434-970-3117.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
00:25:18
I almost forgot and I apologize.
00:25:22
I just wanted to give a shout out to the Burnley Moran third graders.
00:25:26
On September 6th, they invited myself and Lizelle Duggar, who is our city clerk, our court clerk, and Sheriff James Brown to give them a talk about government.
00:25:36
They were studying local government and we talked for about over 30 minutes and they all sat still and it was a real, you know,
00:25:43
Big deal, 60 children in the small classroom were great, and we were already impressed with them when shots were heard outside the school.
00:25:50
Turned out to be fireworks, it was not really a danger, but no one knew that at first.
00:25:54
They called an immediate lockdown of the school.
00:25:57
The children knew exactly what to do.
00:26:00
They went under the tables in their classroom, back in the cubby area, pulled down the shades, closed the door, and those children sat under a table for another 20, 25 minutes after their
00:26:10
Long sitting listening about government services silently and still and I was so impressed at first I felt like it was kind of traumatic that they would have to do this but the fact that they knew what to do made them feel unafraid and I think it was a really nice testament to the to the schools and how well-prepared children are to know what to do in an emergency and to the particular third graders of Burnley Moran and at least the teacher whose name that I have is Anna Isley
00:26:39
and the other third grade teachers, so just wanted to give them a shout out.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:26:44
Thank you.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
00:26:44
Yes, I have a couple.
00:26:45
September is Library Card Sign Up Month.
00:26:49
The Jefferson Madison Regional Library wants to make sure that your child has the smartest card of all, a library card.
00:26:58
Observed since 1987, this is a time when the American Library Association and libraries across the country
00:27:04
Remind parents that a library card is the most important school supply of all.
00:27:10
Library cards are free and bring you a world of opportunity no matter what your age.
00:27:17
You can find out more at the library's website JRML.org
00:27:25
Also, and I'm repeating this one from last council meeting because it's so important, our water resources, and there's folks out here who would be just perfect for this and you know who you are, Water Resources Protection Program Advisory Committee is being formed.
00:27:42
Right now, in February 2013, City Council approved a stormwater utility ordinance establishing a utility that will provide dedicated revenue to support the water resources protection program.
00:27:57
At that time, City Council also passed a resolution establishing a council-appointed
00:28:02
Standing WRPP Advisory Committee.
00:28:06
The Water Resources Protection Program is designed to ensure regulatory compliance, address drainage and flooding problems, provide for stormwater infrastructure rehabilitation and water quality improvement strategies, and promote public education outreach and involvement.
00:28:21
The Advisory Committee will engage in matters pertaining to the Water Resources Protection Program, including conducting periodic assessment of program priorities,
00:28:31
and funding needs and monitoring key components of the program.
00:28:36
The City of Charlottesville is accepting applications right now.
00:28:40
The deadline to apply is October 1st.
00:28:43
Charlottesville.org is our website.
SPEAKER_30
00:28:46
Two quick things.
00:28:48
First of all, this Saturday at Westminster Presbyterian Church at 5 o'clock is the 30th anniversary dinner for the Charlottesville Center for Peace and Justice, and I wanted to make sure that people were aware of that very special event.
00:29:03
Secondly, on behalf of our wonderful sheriff, James Brown, who was mentioned earlier, I want to make sure everybody knows that thanks to the sheriff's department, we have a good supply of these emergency preparedness guides.
00:29:17
This is National Emergency Preparedness Month, I believe.
00:29:21
And these are available in the lobby of City Hall and other places around the community.
00:29:26
These are great little guides that talk about how you and your family can be prepared for an emergency.
00:29:32
how you can prepare a disaster supply kit, how to treat injuries in the case of an emergency, how to handle evacuation, dealing with specific kinds of disasters, all kinds of great resources and information in here.
00:29:45
So, thank you, Sheriff Brown.
00:29:49
There's some in the back of the room tonight, right there.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:29:52
Is there anyone else with specific counsel?
00:29:54
Now we move to the next agenda item, matters by the public.
00:30:02
You can come and speak.
00:30:03
Please identify yourself and your address.
MATTERS BY THE PUBLIC
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:30:06
You have three minutes to speak.
00:30:07
First person to sign up is George Seymour.
SPEAKER_35
00:30:25
Good evening.
00:30:27
My name is George Seymour and this is my wife Kathy.
00:30:30
We own and operate the import car store on the corner of Hydraulic Road in Route 29.
00:30:36
September 11th is not a particularly good day to be sure.
00:30:40
This past Wednesday, September 11th, 2013, we were presented a site plan by city employee Mr. Tolbert
00:30:49
and a colleague.
00:30:51
The site plan was titled Albemarle Place Road Improvement Plan, Route 29 and Hydraulic Road, which showed in detail the substantial loss of our property along Hydraulic Road, but referred to by Mr. Tolbert as a small sliver of property.
00:31:08
Let me assure you that's the understatement of the decade.
00:31:12
First of all, this planning was done totally behind our backs without any knowledge whatsoever on our part.
00:31:20
About a year ago, surveyors showed up on our property.
00:31:23
Under question by my wife, they stated they were working for the developers across the street.
00:31:28
She informed them our land was privately owned by us and they should leave.
00:31:32
Sometime after that, survey stakes appeared in front of our store.
00:31:36
But how could that be?
00:31:37
We're open from 9 to 6, Monday through Saturday.
00:31:41
How could this have been done without our knowledge?
00:31:43
Better yet, why would they sneak in and survey our property?
00:31:47
We had, as of this past Wednesday, not received any notification of a proposal for the Albemarle Place Road Improvement Plan.
00:31:58
How exactly does this proposal affect our property across 29?
00:32:03
Our property is small, barely adequate for our business.
00:32:08
How could we possibly give up a 20-foot strip of property along Hydraulic Road?
00:32:13
We would be unable to display cars in front of our building.
00:32:17
and that's quite unacceptable.
00:32:19
But let me assure you, let us both assure you that that property is more than just a small sliver of land to us.
00:32:26
That 38,000 square foot piece of dirt is a culmination of 32 years of blood, sweat and yes, tears.
00:32:36
Whose idea was it to build Albemarle Place then go across 10 lanes of traffic and confiscate our property?
00:32:43
Our business has no impact on traffic whatsoever.
00:32:47
So why are we expected to pay so dearly for rich developers to make a fortune?
00:32:52
We have never asked, received, expected, or would accept anything from the government.
00:32:58
Our property is not just 38,000 square feet of dirt.
00:33:02
It's 32 years of George and Kathy Seymour working together to make their own way.
00:33:08
We feel about our property at 901 Seminole Trail just like we feel about our home.
00:33:13
We feel cheated and we feel violated, just like when a thief burglarizes your home.
00:33:19
I just can't allow myself to believe that the members of this city council are aware of the methods being used to try to take our land from us.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:33:29
Thank you for listening.
SPEAKER_37
00:33:40
Hello, my name is Lena Seville.
00:33:41
I live at 808 Alta Vista Avenue in Charlottesville.
00:33:45
And I'm here to talk to you about the Belmont Bridge and some related matters.
00:33:53
The first thing I wanted to bring up was in reading the paperwork on the bridge, pedestrian access, which is something I have been asking about for a while now, because it's very limited from the neighborhood of Belmont, there is not an access point
00:34:09
from Carlton Avenue all the way over to I think it's Second Street and that includes the transit center.
00:34:15
I noted in there that when it mentioned the possibility of a pedestrian crossing, it called it extremely hazardous and I'd like to know what that's based on.
00:34:27
I mean, right now the Second Street crossing is next to three parking lots and multiple businesses, the farmer's market, they're talking about putting it next to the
00:34:36
next to that but this particular crossing they're calling extremely hazardous and I'd like a little more explanation of that.
00:34:45
I also think that that spot would be a great place to extend downtown.
00:34:52
There's numerous businesses in that area and not only would it give access to the transit center, there's a field there that could be developed, there's access to Belmont.
00:35:03
Right now we really don't have a way to get to downtown.
00:35:10
I get to the base of Belmont Bridge and I have to decide I can go many blocks this way to get across, I can go a few blocks this way but it's not an official crossing and after dark I don't feel safe doing that or I can go up over the bridge
00:35:28
and if the pavilion's closed then I have to circle back around and down and even the pedestrian bridge that they talked about putting in would have me going up if the pavilion is open and I can't get through that way back down and then to get downtown back up again it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense this would be a really ideal place for a pedestrian crossing and people are already doing it the other day I went to an unofficial crossing and there were four other people doing it at the same time I was doing it
00:35:57
So that's hazardous, much more so than having an official crossing at a not even really highly used area.
00:36:06
I mean it doesn't have a lot of car traffic, but our neighborhood would really like to be able to access downtown easily, conveniently.
00:36:15
The other thing I wanted to talk about was the bridge versus the underpass, or as I might even call it, a tunnel.
00:36:26
To me it's huge.
00:36:28
I mean it's three rows of the underpass.
00:36:31
It's three rows of train, two rows of cars, and it has to be deep enough that buses can get underneath there.
00:36:39
I mean that's
00:36:42
It's not very inviting for somebody to walk through.
00:36:45
I don't think it's a very inviting way to approach the city.
00:36:48
We talk about it looking nice.
00:36:51
Avon Street is the most traveled of anything in that area, and you're putting them into concrete walls.
00:36:58
Also, Water Street in that area doesn't have any lights.
00:37:02
The traffic flows pretty easily.
00:37:05
But Avon Street has lights, so cars stop.
00:37:07
And when you get there,
00:37:10
When the lights are red, it's kind of a heat pollution sort of thing.
00:37:16
And an underpass actually makes that worse.
00:37:18
It has no airflow.
00:37:20
I think it would be a really uninviting way to replace the bridge.
00:37:25
In addition, I think there's a lot of costs that haven't been included, as we've seen in the paperwork.
00:37:33
I have no problem spending a little more money for something that's significantly better, but I don't think that we're getting that.
00:37:39
So, thank you.
SPEAKER_17
00:37:41
Rebecca Quinn, 104 4th Street here in the city.
00:37:51
I have three things on my mind.
00:37:53
I think last week was transit week, but I don't own a car, so every week is transit week.
00:37:59
Have you ever used the phone number and station number to get what's supposed to be real-time bus information?
00:38:05
Well, I want to bring a, I mean the idea is nice.
00:38:09
If you haven't tried it, you should try it and I want staff to try it too.
00:38:14
I've left messages about some of my experiences.
00:38:17
For one thing, the recording starts so fast.
00:38:20
I don't know, by the time you punch in the bus station number, half the message is gone.
00:38:24
It's gotten a little clearer, that's nice.
00:38:27
But it's also, what's disturbing is the times are frequently off.
00:38:32
One time, during a period the trolley was supposed to come every 15 minutes, the recording said no buses in the next 30 minutes.
00:38:40
So I'm standing there and of course one shows up about five minutes later.
00:38:44
But typically it'll say a bus is coming in 13 minutes and one shows up immediately.
00:38:50
So I'm not real sure what triggers it but it would certainly
00:38:53
If we want more people to use buses, we need to have our infrastructure reliable.
00:38:59
Second, you have on the agenda an update for the Belmont Bridge.
00:39:03
It's been quite a while since the last public discussion, and I think a lot of people would appreciate it if you would ask staff to spend a couple minutes reminding us why was repairing the existing bridge rejected.
00:39:17
and third, this is about your agenda and when items are not yet ready to put on the agenda.
00:39:24
If a report isn't ready when the material is public to the post, unless it's time critical, it shouldn't be put on the agenda.
00:39:33
Don't expect the citizens to have to go back over and over.
00:39:37
Even with email reminders that we get, we shouldn't have to do that.
00:39:41
You shouldn't have to do that.
00:39:43
This week,
00:39:44
The item, which I believe is very poorly titled, simply Rivanna Quarterly Update, was not available when the agenda was first posted.
00:39:55
A lot of people don't necessarily know what we all mean when we say Rivanna.
00:40:00
Is it an update on the water quality of the river?
00:40:03
Is it an update on the water quantity?
00:40:05
I don't know.
00:40:08
The staff memo calls it an RWSA agenda
00:40:12
Update.
00:40:13
Well, it turns out it's both.
00:40:14
Rivanna Water and Sewer Authority and Rivanna Solid Waste Authority.
00:40:20
Anyway, I think that it would be better served to make sure that materials are fully available.
00:40:27
And if not, put it off.
00:40:29
Thank you.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:40:32
Jim Rolson, I'm not sure I see the last name.
SPEAKER_08
00:40:47
This is going to be the fastest three minutes.
00:40:54
Members of council, my name is Jim Rounswell.
00:40:56
I live at 1113 Monticello Road.
00:40:58
As council knows, Peter Hsieh and I were hired to review and develop proposals for the redesign of Belmont Bridge.
00:41:03
The work presented this past February arose out of a community-driven effort, including two competitions to propose alternatives to the MMM replacement overpass.
00:41:12
Public input, as well as recommendations from both place and bike committees,
00:41:16
were also incorporated.
00:41:18
Using conceptual proposals, our goal was to engage in a public review of the design merits of each option and incorporate these ideas into a final design.
00:41:25
Unfortunately, the meeting focused almost solely on cost.
00:41:28
Attendees recognized the facts presented in the city staff handout were biased and a public backlash ensued.
00:41:35
In response, Mr. Tolbert apologized to the public and reassumed direct control of the project.
00:41:40
On March 27th, we met with Mr. Tolbert and agreed that information essential for public and council to make an informed decision was missing, specifically because comparative costs were based on estimates developed prior to public and committee input,
00:41:53
We agree that all costs be developed and disclosed for both schemes.
00:41:57
Costs not only included the structures but finishes, landscaping, sidewalks, stairs, as well as a more precise estimate of the pedestrian bridge.
00:42:03
An economic and real estate impact study was also recognized as essential.
00:42:08
So here we are seven months later and yet relevant cost information has been precluded.
00:42:12
The $15 million estimate for the overpass is simply an update of the original MMM overpass, a proposal that the public has categorically rejected.
00:42:21
It does not include costs of public or committee design input that was part of the February presentation.
00:42:27
The $1.4 million already spent on the project is also missing from the figures.
00:42:31
So to be clear, the $16.4 million option will cost more, possibly as much as $20 million.
00:42:38
The $27 million underpass estimate, on the other hand, does incorporate public and committee recommendations.
00:42:45
Yes, the underpass will cost more, encounter more hurdles, take longer, and be more complicated, but it's a superior solution to retain the economic competitiveness of our city.
00:42:54
Unfortunately, we don't yet have apples to apples.
00:42:57
This report is incomplete and consequently raises additional concerns.
00:43:01
Where is the estimate for the pedestrian bridge?
00:43:04
Where is the supporting data from the SIA study?
00:43:06
Why hasn't either option been included in the SIA study?
00:43:10
Why is there no documentation from the pavilion lessee who also is equally affected as the tenants and owners of LexisNexis?
00:43:18
Why, if cost is the only concern, does the possibility of a design-build approach for the underpass continue to be excluded from the conversation?
00:43:26
It is precisely because design-build offers a means to reduce both time and cost that it is imperative it be included.
00:43:32
Despite public support for the underpass, design-build is not even mentioned in this report.
00:43:36
It's unfortunate that city staff has not engaged the nationally recognized experts in the design-build field who have offered to assist them.
00:43:43
is increasingly frustrating that we as a community have yet to have the previously scheduled conversation about the design merits of each proposal and what this critical decision means for the next 50 years.
00:43:53
Public discourse continues to intensely focus on cost.
00:43:56
Instead, perhaps like 37 years ago, when the automobile surrendered downtown to the pedestrian, can we transcend the moment and make this project the centerpiece of council's stated vision for a vibrant and commercially competitive downtown woven into the pedestrian-centric city-wide parking trail system?
00:44:12
This is not 1961.
00:44:14
The rail and federal interstate forces that shape this decaying bridge are gone, and it's time to transform, even restore this landscape.
00:44:21
In this iconographic moment, shall vehicles at the equivalent height of a three-story building embody who we are and continue to divide this part of the city, or do we exceed the moment and open a civic gateway?
00:44:31
Relegating the automobile to the ground plane, I cannot think of a better way to symbolize a municipality's ambition to become a vibrant, pedestrian-friendly, livable city than with an emblematic tensile pedestrian bridge.
00:44:44
I don't think just replacing a federal highway ever passed makes the grade.
00:44:47
Thank you.
SPEAKER_26
00:45:03
All right.
00:45:07
I just want to talk about opportunities.
00:45:09
And actually, Brian Weimer, 712 Grave Street.
00:45:14
Thank you for this opportunity to speak in front of the public.
00:45:17
Not everybody gets this.
00:45:20
We have an opportunity of a document you're going to look at.
00:45:23
And to me, actually, the great opportunity is to show how far the city staff will go to fail in understanding what the city needs.
00:45:33
or listen to the citizen's desires.
00:45:35
And two, totally missed the bigger picture.
00:45:38
Within it, as well as what Jim has talked about, are five basic false assumptions.
00:45:44
One, does it have to be four lanes?
00:45:46
It joins a two-lane road into a two-lane road.
00:45:48
Why is it four lanes?
00:45:50
Why has that never been questioned?
00:45:51
It crosses three railroad tracks.
00:45:53
Why does the engine sit idle on an extra track right under the bridge?
00:45:59
Why not move it 100 yards away?
00:46:03
Why does Old Avon have to be accommodated?
00:46:05
When is a redundant road?
00:46:08
Why is not an at-grade crossing on the table?
00:46:11
Go to Manassas.
00:46:13
Every single at-grade crossing there is at a major road.
00:46:17
Is Manassas any different than we are?
00:46:19
I think we're better.
00:46:22
and also just the viability of the Belmont Bridge vicinity like the process of the ICS which has been so productive.
00:46:29
Why has not the economic viability of that whole area been discussed?
00:46:33
Why is it a bridge?
00:46:35
And that's where we get to this bigger opportunity and a bigger issue because this bridge is an opportunity.
00:46:40
It's a gateway.
00:46:40
It's not just pavement.
00:46:43
This is an opportunity to create a whole viable area within the city to totally change how people interact and come into this city.
00:46:51
Now, we've had other missed opportunities, and last year, actually more than a year ago, we missed an opportunity to apply for a $250,000 design grant.
00:47:01
We can still probably do something like that.
00:47:03
We've still got time.
00:47:05
Another missed opportunity, and I could be wrong, but my understanding was that the report that you're going to read was released after the place meeting, when they would have had a chance to weigh in on it.
00:47:15
Why was it presented then?
00:47:17
and I guess the bigger issue is an opportunity for design oversight and that's really what I want to come out of this is the city has a problem with the process and where I want to go with this is world class city.
00:47:32
You guys said it, not me.
00:47:33
World class city, world class city, world class city.
00:47:37
I'm trying to be a world class citizen here.
00:47:40
I think that everybody here are world class citizens for showing up and being part of the process.
00:47:44
I think you guys have a chance to be, and are, a world class city council.
00:47:49
Why don't we have a world class process in the design of our city?
00:47:55
And why doesn't it come up with world class solutions?
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:47:59
Thank you.
00:48:02
Thank you.
SPEAKER_31
00:48:11
Greetings, I'm David Hurstman, 1107 Calhoun Street, and I'm here to talk to you tonight about playing in the streets.
00:48:19
In our constant quest to get our kids outside and exercising and away from their electronic devices we got one of those portable basketball hoops and we put it outside in the street and it worked.
00:48:32
The teenagers and their friends were outside playing on beautiful days and that was very gratifying and it worked for a week because about a week later we got a visit from one of Charlottesville's finest
00:48:45
a Charlottesville police officer telling us to move the basketball hoop, which we did.
00:48:50
But my wife Garnet wanted to know, well, what's the problem with the basketball hoop, what we were in violation of.
00:48:56
And we discovered some very interesting parts of the city code.
00:48:59
Section 2827, coasting, snowballing, et cetera in the streets.
00:49:05
No person shall slide or coast upon the ice or snow in any street.
00:49:10
It doesn't say whether the coasting or sliding can be intentional or maybe inadvertent.
00:49:16
No person shall throw any snowballs in the street.
00:49:19
Section 2828, playing games in the streets.
00:49:23
No person shall play any game in any street.
00:49:27
No parent or guardian having the legal custody of any minor shall permit such minor to violate the provisions of this section.
00:49:36
Well, I'm being a little facetious because of course the streets need to be safe places and the code needs to address safety.
00:49:42
But then a little while later, I read in the paper one of our city councils, I think it was Miss Smith, talk about the concept of complete streets.
00:49:51
And I thought, I wonder what that is, a complete street.
00:49:52
I've heard about it in Arlington and other places.
00:49:56
And lo and behold, there's a national complete streets coalition.
00:49:59
And I went on their website and they have this definition of complete streets, which are streets for everyone.
00:50:05
They are designed and operated to enable safe access for all users, people of all ages and abilities that are able to safely move along and across streets in a community, regardless of how they are traveling.
00:50:19
Complete streets make it easy to cross the street, walk to shops, and bicycle to work.
00:50:24
They allow buses to run on time and make it safe for people to walk to and from train stations.
00:50:30
And I thought this was great.
00:50:31
This is very admirable.
00:50:32
And I think our city already does a lot of this.
00:50:35
But I would only suggest that maybe a good place to start to implement complete streets is to look at some of the issues of the code.
00:50:42
And maybe there's some updated sections to bring our zoning ordinance in line with the implementation of complete streets.
00:50:49
And it would be great.
00:50:50
Thank you very much.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:50:54
Thank you.
00:50:54
Jake Pittman.
SPEAKER_12
00:51:05
Good evening.
00:51:06
Before I begin, I have some handouts to give to all the council members.
00:51:11
First off, I would like to thank you all for allowing us to be here tonight.
00:51:15
My name is Jake Bibbin, and I'm a fourth year student at the University of Virginia.
00:51:20
And I want to come up here and address the noise ordinance update that's getting brought up this evening.
00:51:28
And I just want to present to you all
00:51:30
Some of the efforts that are made by myself and my peers that are here with me, Kathleen Lovell, President of the Inner Sorority Council, Eric McDaniel, Student Council President, Jaylen Ross, Director of University Relations who actually drafted this release, and Hayat Yashish who is the Minority Rights Coalition President.
00:51:50
And just wanted to show you all that
00:51:54
We have been making progressive efforts to limit the amount of noise violation calls that go on throughout the Venable neighborhood area.
00:52:06
As listed here on the release,
00:52:10
One of the main things that we as student leaders like to do, strive to do, is to have our groups give back to the greater Charlottesville community.
00:52:18
And through that we do such events like Tucker for Charity, Project Serve, Greek Week, Palm Dress Drive, Madison House, and several philanthropies that benefit the community.
00:52:29
The reason why I bring these up to you all this evening is just to reiterate our progressive movement towards making the streets of Charlottesville a better community and a better place for all the members who live here to embrace and like we've all been talking about just enjoy the great area that you all have benefited us with.
00:52:51
So thank you all and I just appreciate the allow to talk.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:52:56
Thank you.
00:52:58
Anyone else who would like to speak who has not spoken?
SPEAKER_07
00:53:00
I'm Kirk Bowers, I'm a county resident and I just wanted to reinforce
00:53:15
for your good work on the uranium ban.
00:53:18
I'm the conservation chair for the Sierra Club in this area and we appreciate your good work.
00:53:24
Thank you very much.
00:53:25
And also I wanted to mention that this Saturday is the International Day of Peace and I'm on the board of directors of the Charlottesville Center for Peace and Justice.
00:53:35
I'd like to invite everybody here to come to that event on Saturday evening if you have time.
00:53:41
It's at the Presbyterian Church on Rugby Road
00:53:45
We're 30 years old this year, and we're also celebrating peace on that day, and I think that's something we can all look forward to and hope in the future.
00:53:55
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_23
00:54:05
Good evening.
00:54:06
My name is John Gaines, and I reside on 9th Street, Northwest.
00:54:13
I have several concerns that may need to be addressed as they relate to my neighborhood.
00:54:21
Before tonight, I felt these concerns could be presented when council and staff visit the 10th and Page neighborhood.
00:54:33
According to Mr. Jones' assistant, this will not happen until maybe December.
00:54:41
Therefore, I felt
00:54:45
These concerns should be given to you before then.
00:54:49
The first one relates to the increased parking in our neighborhood by individuals that do construction work on Main Street and hospital employees.
00:55:04
This particular problem is growing worse in our area.
00:55:11
Another traffic issue
00:55:13
deals with the narrow streets in this area and in Charlottesville neighborhoods in the inner city part of Charlottesville.
00:55:28
Evidently, the city was laid out during Thomas Jefferson's time horse and buggy and the streets are so narrow that cars can hardly get through.
00:55:39
For instance, on 8th Street Northwest,
00:55:42
up around the 300 block.
00:55:45
Cars are parked on one side and traffic comes, it's going in both directions, north and south down on 8th Street.
00:55:58
And you have to wait and you can hardly see what's coming around the corner and cars travel, they travel right fast on 8th Street and on many of the streets in the area.
00:56:13
Why can't the city do a traffic study to address all the streets in Charlottesville?
00:56:22
Whether or not maybe some of the streets need to be one-way streets, whether or not parking needs to be just on one side of the streets.
00:56:34
But it's a problem and it's a problem that I guess many of you are not aware of because
00:56:42
The emphasis presently appears to be heavily on Main Street.
00:56:49
Lastly, I have several budgetary issues that I think council could address.
00:56:58
Can the city employ a company that can combine newspapers,
00:57:07
and Garbage so that you will not have to have two separate containers when you put your trash out.
00:57:16
One of my friends said that she deals with a company that combines everything.
00:57:27
You're pointing your finger.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:57:29
Your time.
SPEAKER_23
00:57:30
Time.
00:57:32
I have one other
00:57:35
It appears you have appointed a blue ribbon committee that will address the city schools budgetary concerns and maybe the city schools will not have to come to you in the spring asking for more funds.
00:57:55
Thank you.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
00:57:56
Is there anybody else who would like to speak?
SPEAKER_24
00:58:06
Thank you.
00:58:09
Please use your name and address.
00:58:11
Rolf Braun, 1120D East High Street.
00:58:16
I'm here just to raise a couple of questions about the Belmont Bridge and underpass issue.
00:58:22
I hear a lot of talk from certain people in the community that
00:58:26
about the cost estimates that maybe the bridge isn't that much cheaper.
00:58:31
Well, the bridge is cheaper than the underpass and while they say maybe there are costs not included in the bridge, I think that there are costs in the underpass proposal that have not even been broached.
00:58:43
I'm not really sure what the purpose of the underpass is as far as community development, but it seems from a design perspective that it's designed that it could be a wider, more welcoming space.
00:58:56
In order to do that, because the bridge over the underpass still wouldn't have to be as long as the actual bridge, but in order to do that, you would have a fairly large amount of impact on the property at each end.
00:59:11
We've already lost a valued community space this year in random row books.
00:59:17
I would hate to see something similar with the Bridge PAI.
00:59:21
I know Charlottesville residents love spud nuts.
00:59:26
The proponents of the underpass haven't presented any coherent vision in my mind as to how this effect on the community around it would be mitigated.
00:59:37
It seems to me like it's almost intended as an engine of gentrification.
00:59:41
that it's intended to have a big vision and big development and I'm not sure that's what a lot of the city residents want in that area.
00:59:49
The contest that they're talking about where supposedly citizens preferred this design, well the people paying attention to this contest from the beginning wanted the at-grade and then they wanted the underpass.
01:00:04
A certain set of people have been driving this process from the beginning.
01:00:08
It really hasn't been that well advertised to the larger community.
01:00:15
For instance, the bike committee supposedly approved it, but as a cyclist, I can't imagine wanting a structure with a larger grade, especially keeping novice cyclists in mind.
01:00:27
with both ends, with Market Street and Garrett Street being a considerably higher elevation, I believe 10 to 20 feet higher than the railroad tracks, the grade of the underpass would almost certainly be higher.
01:00:38
The underpass might also flood, being below the grade of pretty much all of the surrounding land.
01:00:42
That's a cost that hasn't been considered at all.
01:00:46
Finally, the bridge, having an underpass, there's no opportunity to provide sound baffling from the pavilion.
01:00:52
if, which is something that I believe a lot of the Belmont residents were asking for.
01:00:58
It appears the intent of a lot of the underpass advocates is to move the pavilion.
01:01:04
I heard one comment at an architectural event where they said, let's move the pavilion next to the cemetery so it will disturb the dead instead of the living.
01:01:12
Well, right around that whole cemetery area, you have Friendship Court, Crescent Halls, other low income housing.
01:01:18
I guess those people aren't dead, are they?
01:01:21
I think the underpass is a planning nightmare waiting to happen.
01:01:31
It's a financial nightmare for the city and it's a civil engineering non-starter.
01:01:35
I could be convinced otherwise, but I haven't heard that evidence yet.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:01:40
Thank you.
01:01:43
Anybody else would like to speak?
SPEAKER_29
01:01:47
Good evening, Mayor, Member of Council.
01:01:48
My name is Tim Freilich.
01:01:50
I'm a resident of 719 Levy Avenue, just a few doors up from Spudnuts where I live with my wife and two young girls.
01:01:57
I'm also a regular bike commuter and my wife walks across the bridge every day to work for the city.
01:02:05
From the first MMM design group meetings, I was a vocal participant criticizing the replacement highway bridge process, the highway overpass concept that MMM seemed to be pushing.
01:02:18
I celebrated Project Gateway and the architecture school competition and the important messages that I think both of these efforts have sent.
01:02:26
But I've tried for months to envision the three underpass with no at-grade crossing option.
01:02:33
and it doesn't work for me.
01:02:35
I've talked with my wife, neither of us would feel comfortable with designs that we've seen so far walking under a series of underpasses at night alone, nor would we want our girls walking there.
01:02:47
As a bike commuter, I also am very concerned about the additional grade and also going through at night, it just seems like that would be a scarier option than the current
01:02:58
Bridge.
01:02:59
On the other hand, I don't like the current bridge that much.
01:03:02
I'm really disappointed that we haven't had an enhanced bridge option or even a reasonable expiration of such an option.
01:03:09
I think that the proposed replacement highway overpass with inadequate bike and pedestrian facilities would be a tremendous lost opportunity.
01:03:17
But I would be perfectly happy with a broad
01:03:23
Broad good-looking bridge with cantilevered, lightweight bike and pedestrian facilities on either side of the bridge.
01:03:29
And maybe a slightly wider spot in the sidewalks at the highest point of the bridge where you could stop and look at the mountains or watch the sunsets or trains.
01:03:38
I love watching the sunsets from the top of the bridge.
01:03:41
My girls love watching the trains and buses.
01:03:44
And I love the gentle separation that I get between my house and the bustle of downtown.
01:03:51
I have really appreciated all of the alternative proposals that have come out.
01:03:55
I wish we had more design details on the underpass option as a resident of Belmont with lots of friends who are really supporting the underpass option.
01:04:05
I want to love and understand it.
01:04:06
I haven't yet.
01:04:08
The inclusion of the flyaway pedestrian bridge is great maybe if you're going to the downtown mall if it's officially included.
01:04:15
But what does that say about that underpass option if it's not included?
01:04:19
And that's what really concerns me as someone who often bikes across and then goes to the right instead of towards the downtown mall.
01:04:26
As a biker also I'm concerned that the pedestrian bridge addition that looks so lovely
01:04:31
doesn't seem like it would be doing anything for me as a bicyclist.
01:04:35
I could be wrong about that.
01:04:36
Again, we don't have all the design details.
01:04:38
Anyway, I'm really urging the council to consider an enhanced bridge option.
01:04:43
And I don't think it's too late to head down that course.
01:04:45
And we might end up with something between the two that leaves us better than we have been.
01:04:49
Thank you.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:04:50
Thanks.
01:04:51
One more comment.
SPEAKER_10
01:04:56
Good evening.
01:04:56
I'm Peter Kleeman.
01:04:57
I live at 407 Hedge Street in the city.
01:05:01
I'm not here to promote either a bridge or an at-grade crossing or a tunnel for the Belmont Bridge replacement, but I would like to recommend that the assumption that there should be 100% through traffic at all times in the development of whatever that solution is be relaxed.
01:05:23
it seems to me that considering that assumption that it is essential that traffic be flowing across that particular roadway at all times during the construction is a burden and certainly a bias against certain solutions in that set of bridge, tunnel, or at grade crossing.
01:05:45
So my feeling is when I look at
01:05:48
the McIntire Road extended project that's being built there are many times when that is effectively not passable and that is a much larger traffic flow area in the city that is another gateway to the city and today I was avoiding that area because it was impossible to pass through there during a certain portion of the day
01:06:11
So my feeling is that to not bias the kind of solution that would be developed, it would make sense to look at reasonable accommodations for detours and other ways through the city.
01:06:23
There are many other ways to get across that railroad track at other sections both
01:06:28
I want to say east and west of that intersection and I'm sure that there can be some accommodations made to allow a fairer evaluation of the broad range of alternatives rather than just biasing them by an assumption rather than an analysis.
01:06:47
Thank you very much.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:06:47
Thank you.
01:06:48
We will close the session with comments.
01:06:51
At the end of the meeting there will be an opportunity for people to speak as they would like to speak.
01:06:56
Comments from the city council?
SPEAKER_30
01:07:01
I'll start.
COUNCIL RESPONSES TO MATTERS BY THE PUBLIC
SPEAKER_30
01:07:03
First of all, we are going to have a discussion on the Belmont Bridge later, but thank you to everyone who came to speak about the bridge.
01:07:09
We'll hold off on that until later.
01:07:10
I did want to reassure Mr. Gaines with regards to the trash issue.
01:07:16
We actually have the best of both worlds in the city of Charlottesville because you have the choice of separating out recyclables from garbage and putting your recyclables out on the curb.
01:07:28
But what's left over in your garbage can is then taken to a facility that sorts out the recyclables from the garbage.
01:07:35
So we do have that system in place here in the city of Charlottesville.
01:07:40
And on top of that, if you want to take recyclables to the McIntire Recycling Center, you can do that too.
01:07:45
So that's good news and I do think the parking issues that you mentioned certainly warrant some attention from staff so I'd like to have staff take a look at that.
01:07:58
I'm really sort of intrigued and troubled and only slightly amused by the comments of Mr. Hirschman about playing in the street and how it is that that's illegal in the city of Charlottesville so I certainly hope
01:08:13
We can figure that one out because that's really absurd.
01:08:16
I mean, the whole idea of neighborhood streets and complete streets is that they are open to all users, including sometimes children playing basketball, I would hope.
01:08:28
I agree with Ms. Quinn that the real-time info is sorely insufficient and I've had to rely on it myself extensively in the last year.
01:08:39
It's not that great.
01:08:41
So I do hope we can take a hard look at that as well.
01:08:43
And I'll leave it there.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:08:48
Okay, and ditto on the Belmont Bridge, taking lots of notes.
01:08:51
Really great points all around.
01:08:54
It's going to be a really interesting and healthy discussion.
01:08:57
And I happen to know that IT is actually working with transit to make a better system.
01:09:04
You're right, it's happened to all of us.
01:09:07
I wonder if on the agenda for our meetings when the materials aren't there, just a note could be made that check back for materials because I've had the same situation and kind of have to go back.
01:09:20
It takes a while to download those and I agree too with Dave Hirschman.
01:09:27
It's happening around the city, I'm not going to say where, but it's been really nice.
01:09:33
I've even seen a resurgence of kids playing outside and often in the city, same issues as Mr. Gaines is talking about, the narrow streets and the
01:09:42
you know that we're sometimes the only place to play and so I'd really like to take a look at those codes it's always amusing to see what's in those codes and but thank you all for coming out today and we will get some good Belmont Bridge discussion.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
01:10:01
Thank you again on the Belmont Bridge very good
01:10:11
I will speak namely to Mr. Hirshman and first about the Complete Streets.
01:10:25
The city passed the Complete Streets Resolution in 2010.
01:10:30
Nothing's been implemented in a concerted way or a comprehensive way.
01:10:34
We have talked about that already when we were passed a resolution for the HEAL.
01:10:39
which was the healthy eating active living resolution.
01:10:42
At that point I interjected the need for a context sensitive street solution as well.
01:10:48
Both of those strategies deal with creating streets that are used by all modes, streets that are sensitive to their surroundings and that are designed in accordance with the context that's not one size fits all.
01:11:02
And all of that needs to have a city wide transportation plan.
01:11:08
as has been discussed later.
01:11:12
We need to have a citywide plan in order to identify where there are problems and disconnects between our existing street sections and our codes.
01:11:21
That is something that has come up in our comprehensive plan update.
01:11:26
It is something that was repeatedly stated in the place design task force report.
01:11:30
And so we are at a point now where we have to make a decision on how to both implement
01:11:35
a complete streets resolution that's been around for three years, how to implement the HEAL resolution, how to revise and look at our codes, and how are we going to get that citywide transportation plan that is the foundation for all of that.
01:11:51
That again is a major implementation question.
01:11:54
It's going to be about looking at how do you coordinate between departments because when you're dealing with streets, you're dealing with infrastructure that is below grade and above grade.
01:12:02
So you're dealing with utilities, you're dealing with stormwater.
01:12:06
We have a stormwater utility that we passed that is moving us towards a direction of green infrastructure.
01:12:13
So again, the public works needs to be coordinated with
01:12:16
with neighborhood services needs coordinated even with parks because you're dealing with green infrastructure.
01:12:22
So you're raising big, big questions and important questions that have to do with systems of the city.
01:12:29
And we can only handle that in a very, very comprehensive concerted way that's going to be cross departmental.
01:12:34
And when you do that, you need people to understand design thinking and problem solving.
01:12:39
So I'm hoping that this council really does, really does understand what needs to be done to implement these important ideas, which have been around with us for many years.
01:12:49
So thank you.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:12:51
Any other comments from city council members?
01:12:55
I agree with most of the concerns of my colleagues.
01:12:58
And we are moving to the next item, the consent agenda.
01:13:02
Page, would you please read that?
01:13:05
Item A, Minutes for September 3, Item D, Appropriation, Crisis, Innovation, and Coordinator, 2nd Tier Readings, Item C, Appropriation, Charlottesville High School Stadium, future recreation, water protection performance, fun relief
SPEAKER_19
01:13:24
I'm here today to present the results of the results of the results.
01:13:49
Item H, Resolution 1, extension of your classes at Lewis and Park, is quoted first in our Virginia corporate, $130,000 versus home reading.
01:13:56
Item I, Resolution Amendment Number 2, adding material and innovations to the program's agreement and local government support agreement for recycling, first of one reading.
01:14:04
Item J, an ordinance, the 19th development district code changes, second of two readings.
01:14:09
Item K, an ordinance exchange of permanent easements to cure encroachments at 431 Monticello Road, second of two readings.
01:14:15
Item L, an ordinance allowing the local courts to assess the courthouse construction fee, first of two readings.
1. CONSENT AGENDA* (Items removed from the consent agenda will be considered at the end of the regular agenda.)
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:14:21
I think council members would like to remove any items from the consent agenda or would like to make a comment on the action.
01:14:30
If not, is there a motion?
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
01:14:31
I move that we approve the consent agenda.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:14:34
Is there a second?
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:14:35
Second.
01:14:36
Can I actually ask one question?
01:14:38
In the extension of the agreements with RSWA, there was no budgetary impact statement, which we usually get.
Maurice Jones
City Manager
01:14:48
There isn't.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:14:48
There isn't one?
Maurice Jones
City Manager
01:14:49
Not in the city.
01:14:50
Okay, thanks.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:14:52
Okay, let's vote.
01:14:54
Thank you.
01:14:56
Next item in the public hearing on the amendment of 1625-21 trail access easement.
01:15:02
Who's presenting that?
01:15:12
I must say you can accept this plaque I have for you.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
01:15:17
That's the other one.
01:15:18
The other one got buried somewhere.
01:15:21
I'll find it.
2. PUBLIC HEARING / ORDINANCE* Abandonment of 1625 Brandywine Trail Access Easement (1st of 2 readings)
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:15:24
You've got a plaque for a young man.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
01:15:25
The night camping program.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:15:27
Right.
01:15:29
Okay.
SPEAKER_06
01:15:29
The item before you this evening is the request for the abandonment of a pedestrian easement along Brandywine Drive that goes into the new Meadow Creek Valley Park.
01:15:40
The easement was created a number of years ago along with a sanitary sewer easement leading from Brandywine Drive down into the Stream Valley.
01:15:48
However, the easement topographically is very, very, very steep.
01:15:52
As we walked through the master planning for the Stream Valley, the neighbors that are immediately adjacent to this easement asked that we evaluate and possibly abandon the pedestrian portion of the easement, obviously leaving the sanitary sewer easement in place.
01:16:08
After site visits and talking with them and seeing the situation, we agreed that it would make sense to go ahead and abandon the pedestrian portion of the easement.
01:16:15
There is pedestrian access further south along Brandywine Drive from the right of way that will allow us to provide trail access to the east side of the stream.
01:16:25
So that's what's before you this evening.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:16:31
Any questions or clarifications?
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:16:34
So it showed on the map where the new access is.
01:16:41
Where else can people access?
01:16:43
If you're walking from that area, is there any place else along there?
01:16:47
What's the next point that you can access?
SPEAKER_06
01:16:50
It would be at where Brandywine crosses Meadow Creek, where the street actually crosses Meadow Creek.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:16:58
Where Greenbrier comes in?
SPEAKER_06
01:17:00
Exactly.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:17:02
Another clarification question?
01:17:04
If not, I'll open the public hearing.
01:17:06
Anybody here who would like to speak on this topic?
01:17:11
Go forward.
SPEAKER_10
01:17:19
Good evening.
01:17:20
My name is Peter Kleeman.
01:17:21
I live at 407 Head Street in the city.
01:17:24
I generally am opposed to the idea of closing pedestrian accesses to public open spaces, and unless it is hazardous or dangerous or an invitation for injury,
01:17:37
were something I would recommend that all of your public accesses that are in existence remain in existence and perhaps be expanded.
01:17:45
I think if we're going to make a pedestrian-friendly community, we need to be adding linkages, not removing them.
01:17:51
And unless there's some really compelling reason, which I'm not sure has just been presented, I would encourage you to maintain that the pedestrian access remain open.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:18:00
Thank you.
01:18:02
Does anybody else would like to speak?
Jim Tolbert
Director of Neighborhood Development Services
01:18:06
Good evening.
SPEAKER_03
01:18:06
I'm Charles Hughes.
01:18:08
I live at 1625 Brandywine Drive and the pedestrian easement would come directly by our house, within three feet of our house.
01:18:21
It's a very steep decline.
01:18:24
It could be hazardous for people who have trouble walking.
01:18:30
It's not conducive to an access to the trail, but mostly I'm more concerned with people walking right by our windows and being able to see in.
01:18:41
We haven't had anybody that actually in the five years, six years that we've lived there have actually come through our yard to
01:18:51
to access the trail there except our neighbors across the street and on either side.
01:18:57
It's not conducive.
01:18:58
They have to come through the driveway, walk up the front yard, and then down the pedestrian easement.
01:19:08
So it's not really that convenient.
01:19:10
Unless you've seen it, I don't think you should really make a judgment on it.
01:19:15
So thank you very much.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:19:16
Is there anybody else who would like to speak on this topic?
01:19:19
If not, I close the public hearing.
01:19:22
Call for the council members on the motion.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
01:19:24
I have a question, just quick.
01:19:26
How far away from this existing easement is the unbuilt public right-of-way?
01:19:32
10 houses down.
01:19:33
10 houses down, so that's, but what distance is that?
SPEAKER_06
01:19:41
I don't have a scale on this map, so I'm not going to, I don't know exactly, but it looks to be maybe
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
01:19:49
I tend to actually agree with Mr. Kleeman that when we have access to parks we not cut it off but this one I have seen it and I think that you know especially since the people who live there say that people aren't really using it this one seems like if we were to close anyone it would be this one so I have no objection to closing it.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:20:20
Is that a motion?
01:20:23
Sure.
01:20:24
Is the second a motion?
01:20:26
Second.
01:20:27
Discussion?
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:20:28
Yeah, I'd just like to say, I mean, I too, it sort of hurts to close an easement, particularly when it means that people don't have to get in a car and get to the trailhead.
01:20:39
and I do think it's also, Brandywine's not that easy to walk along, but I trust Parks and Rec's judgment on this.
01:20:49
It would be nice if we had more access with the park, that long, long linear park, it's just like right there, and if you can't get to it, I mean that's a drag, but it's a big hill, I get it, but it would be nice to make more access for the neighborhood if it's possible.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
01:21:07
I have a question, didn't we just put sidewalks in there?
01:21:13
It's much safer to walk than it was a year ago.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:21:16
Next is a report on Belmont Bridge update.
3. REPORT Belmont Bridge Update
Jim Tolbert
Director of Neighborhood Development Services
01:21:35
Thank you Mr. Mayor, Council.
01:21:38
Tonight this is just really an update on where we are and a report on the process.
01:21:44
If you remember back in February, as has been outlined earlier, we came to you and slowed down the work that was going on with the Belmont Bridge.
01:21:54
We had been through the process with the design competitions and there had been a lot of questions raised and so
01:22:02
We came to council and said we want to do some analysis and get some information for you.
01:22:09
We wanted to try to get as close as we could with the information we had of cost estimates that were as closely comparable as we could get them and we wanted to get an independent third party to do those for us.
01:22:22
We wanted to find out definitively if the railroad would allow us to have an underpass and if so with what conditions.
01:22:30
We wanted to try to figure out if there would be any additional right-of-way costs with either option and what were those costs, if we could define that.
01:22:39
And then were there any negative impacts to property owners and also what are the potentials for positive economic development.
01:22:48
We also said that going forward, once council made a decision as to which direction you wanted to go, that we wanted to engage the place design task force as the steering committee, which we had not had a steering committee prior to that point.
01:23:03
If you recall, this went to the Place Design Task Force last year who made a statement to council, wrote a letter to council that essentially said that all things being equal, they thought that the underpass provided some of the best alternatives.
01:23:19
that was based on not having at that time any cost information in detail or anything of that nature.
01:23:26
So the intent has always been that that place would serve as your steering committee to approve any or make recommendations to you for any designs once we go forward.
01:23:41
We hired Barton Mallow who is a national firm that does construction management and cost estimating and gave them the plans and in your reports you've got their report.
01:23:52
Essentially they tell you that they use the work that's been completed by
01:23:58
MMM Design Group at the 35% progress set dated August of 2011 to do their estimating and they estimate that from this point forward the cost to construct the bridge is $14,962,800 and that includes some contingencies but roughly $14,900,000 to $15,000,000
01:24:22
They discuss constructability and they've got some details of that.
01:24:28
And then they go to the underpass and they tell you that they're working off of the schematic design proposal that was prepared by Site Works and Mr. Rounsovel in December 2012 and that's what they used.
01:24:44
And knowing that
01:24:46
Those two things are not at the same stage of completion but rely on trying to make adjustments for that.
01:24:52
Their best guess at the number for the construction of the underpass construction cost wise is $27,257,000.
01:24:59
So $27,000,000 plus or minus for the underpass.
01:25:09
They acknowledge that there are decisions that can be made as you go through the design process for either one on how long do you close the 9th Street, do you leave it open, that can impact the numbers as we get into more detail on either design.
01:25:29
They also acknowledge that the railroad's conditions are going to be
01:25:33
a major factor as they go forward and if you took the time to read the railroad's comments they're not as clear as you would like them but it's very obvious that the railroad expects all three lines to be to remain open the entire time and if they don't that we relocate the lines to keep the amount of access open and that is their call.
01:25:56
One of the questions that had been raised a number of times was
01:26:01
was whether or not there could be an at-grade pedestrian crossing, particularly with the underpass option as something that was really desired.
01:26:11
And the railroad, it's the one thing that they, I think they did define clearly, where they say an at-grade pedestrian crossing across the yard tracks would create an extremely hazardous condition
01:26:23
and Buckingham Branch would not consider this an option.
01:26:27
So they are adamantly opposed to that and as we've talked about before, that's not unusual.
01:26:31
That's across the country.
01:26:33
Railroads do not particularly usually approve at-grade crossings and when the rare occasion that it does, they usually require that one be closed somewhere to compensate for the one that's open.
01:26:46
So that's not an unusual answer.
01:26:52
They do say that they would allow an underpass.
01:26:55
However, they provide a large number of comments about the conditions that would have to be maintained or met in order to make that happen.
01:27:08
As to right-of-way costs, it's very difficult to determine yet.
01:27:11
We know that the bridge, as it's been taken forward, would not require any additional right-of-way costs because there's no need for additional right-of-way.
01:27:19
The underpass, it has not progressed enough to
01:27:23
know that definitively however in looking at the schematics it appears that there would be but again we don't know that for a fact.
01:27:33
We haven't gotten the final SIA report however I have
01:27:38
talked extensively to both, Chris England and I have talked to Eric Smart who is the lead economic development person on that team and Eric feels that there would be no appreciable difference in economic impact for a bridge versus an underpass or either one.
01:27:57
That there's the same development potential and creative design with either option could make, you could realize
01:28:07
the same impacts.
01:28:11
As to negative impacts, the one that we felt all along was key was the LexisNexis impact because there are contractual conditions from when the city and CETA leased that land to Lexis or Mickey Company at the time that remained in place.
01:28:30
Starting on page 10 of the memo, I've included comments made by the city attorney, but those
01:28:39
those indicate that Lexis has, that was a part of the agreement, they were very interested in it when they decided to locate, very desirous of it and CETA even put up a one million dollar bond to ensure that it would stay open and if it were to close prior to the period in that bond that stated there then that bond would be paid to Lexis so they are concerned, they did provide a letter
01:29:05
stating that they would like to see it remain open as did their primary tenant RKG, that they did feel like they would like to see it remain open.
01:29:15
We've not answered all the questions.
01:29:17
We knew we wouldn't answer all of them and until we go through a design process with one option or the other, we won't get all the answers to every question.
01:29:29
We indicated that we would come back to you.
01:29:32
We also indicated that before you make a decision that we would go back to the public.
01:29:36
And what we have asked in this memo and coming here tonight is
01:29:43
We'd like some guidance from you as to how you would like us to approach the public, to engage the public, and what questions you would like us to ask them that we could get information on that would help you with an answer.
01:29:57
And then if there's any additional information for you to make a decision to move forward, we would like you to have an opportunity as we go forward to ask that.
01:30:07
I would address two more points.
01:30:11
One of them is
01:30:12
You know that if an underpass option was chosen, we would essentially have to start from scratch, start over.
01:30:19
I think that's, I mean everybody knows that.
01:30:21
We would take the concept and have to go out and get engineering, we'd have to get VDOT approval, we'd have to get it in the six year plan and then attempt to convince VDOT that that was a viable option and why the bridge was not for them to agree to fund it.
01:30:36
Those things have happened.
01:30:37
That's not saying it couldn't happen.
01:30:39
That's just the process.
01:30:40
With the bridge, we have the structural plans.
01:30:43
I think that the understanding that we've had is that we would, if you chose the bridge option when that time comes, we would start the design discussion with the place design task force.
01:30:54
If we can work off the 35% plans, then great.
01:30:58
If we need to make changes, then we can do that as we go forward.
01:31:02
But I don't think anything is off the table at this point.
01:31:05
with that design either that's within reason that we can do because there have been a lot of good comments raised throughout this process about what to do if there is a breach, about how we might particularly deal with bike and pedestrian access and so those things are still open.
01:31:22
And then lastly, I did not include anything in the memo about the pedestrian bridge.
01:31:28
And the reason I did not is because the pedestrian bridge is a viable alternative with either option.
01:31:34
I think it's more necessary with the underpass, but I think it's a really interesting way to move bikes and peds to the downtown in particular and back to Belmont with a bridge.
01:31:46
It may not be as necessary but it's a good alternative.
01:31:49
and the cost is essentially the same with either alternative so we didn't put it in there because it wasn't really germane to that part of the discussion.
01:32:00
That said, it's also not eligible for the primary VDOT funding but there are other programs such as revenue sharing, enhancement dollars where if you decided that that was something you wanted to pursue at some point we could very aggressively go after that money.
01:32:17
Again, we're looking for guidance tonight on the engagement process, and I'll be glad to answer any questions you might have.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:32:24
Okay, thank you.
01:32:26
Now, we have a report from the staff, and you have heard a presentation.
01:32:31
Do you need to discuss with the council what your thoughts are, any clarifications you need, if you want to make any decisions as to whether you want to follow the bridge over the underpass, or do you want further studies?
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:32:46
Can I ask Ms. Quinn's question about where did repair fall out?
Jim Tolbert
Director of Neighborhood Development Services
01:32:55
Well, the sufficiency rating of the bridge was in the 40s and when it was evaluated by the bridge repair report, so the inspection reports were evaluated by VDOT, they felt that it's at the stage where it warrants.
01:33:09
It's not cost effective to continue to do repairs.
01:33:12
It's more cost effective in the long run to do the reconstruction.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:33:18
And Mr. Wymer brought up four lanes versus two.
01:33:20
It's two to four to two.
01:33:22
Why four?
Jim Tolbert
Director of Neighborhood Development Services
01:33:23
That's where it has gone to this point.
01:33:25
I think that's a design option as we go forward that I think is very interesting in pursuing.
01:33:31
It came up, it's come up really in the last year and I think it's worth considering.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:33:35
I don't know that there's... And if just having two.
Jim Tolbert
Director of Neighborhood Development Services
01:33:37
Right.
01:33:37
I don't know if there's any reason at this point that any agency has said you've got to have four.
01:33:43
I can understand that VDOT may push for that, but I think that's one that we can have a conversation about.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:33:47
My recollection is that VDOT had said they were a four-lane bridge.
Jim Tolbert
Director of Neighborhood Development Services
01:33:50
Well, and they typically don't like to build anything less than four, but we've seen even in Albemarle County where they've built one lane, you know, so I think it's worth having that conversation for that very reason.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:34:04
And so you also said that the railroad actually has been known to consider a new at-grade pedestrian crossing if you give up one.
Jim Tolbert
Director of Neighborhood Development Services
01:34:14
Usually that happens in a rural area with a farmer that's looking for ways to get his cows somewhere.
01:34:20
Again, the railroad is concerned about safety and excessively so to some degree, but they have said they're not even going to open the debate about it and it's their call.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:34:33
But as Ms. Seville said, so people are crossing anyway, so what does the railroad say about that?
Jim Tolbert
Director of Neighborhood Development Services
01:34:38
They would like our police to issue tickets as often as possible.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:34:41
They think that's a solution?
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
01:34:43
Actually we did get an email asking about that very thing about putting a fence on the other side because people are crossing over so I don't know if that's something the railroad has thought about but I can't imagine we're going to park our police along the side of the tracks.
Jim Tolbert
Director of Neighborhood Development Services
01:35:00
The railroad would love for us to fence off
01:35:03
the entirety of the tracks and you know we got a grant from the state and are doing that up around the corner and we're doing it around the coal tower project through an agreement when we bought that property from CSX but they're not interested in building it themselves but they would love for us to do so.
SPEAKER_30
01:35:23
I agree, I think we should be increasing pedestrian connectivity, not restricting it.
01:35:27
But I had a quick question.
01:35:29
Mr. Freilich took the words right out of my mouth when he asked, you know, how do we get to the point now where we have, and I think you sort of touched on it a second ago in your comments, but how do we get to the point where our options are this underpass, which a lot of people still have doubts about,
01:35:47
versus sort of another highway overpass, why not, as he said, an enhanced bridge option, which I think a lot of people were asking for all along.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:35:58
I think that you would want to have a bridge that is an attractive bridge.
SPEAKER_30
01:36:06
Right, but that's not what we're seeing.
Jim Tolbert
Director of Neighborhood Development Services
01:36:08
Well, what you see is...
01:36:11
None of us are disagreeing that you don't have an enhanced bridge option at this point.
01:36:18
We've not done any work on the bridge option in over a year.
01:36:23
Again, if you choose a bridge option, I didn't use the words enhanced bridge option when I was talking about the things we would look at, but that's exactly what
01:36:32
we would start looking at is how we might make this a better bridge and having the guidance of the Place Design Task Force which is, you know, we didn't have that in place before so I think that would be very helpful there.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
01:36:46
There are a couple of things that I have, you know, as folks have been talking to us both today and previously.
01:36:56
If we do the bridge, I think I'm in total agreement that I have no real interest in just a plain old flat rectangle, that this is something that we're building for our kind of legacy and I would hope that as we move forward that it becomes something that we can really
01:37:12
be visually inviting and connecting of the city rather than just a box in the middle of it.
01:37:18
But there are a couple of things that I know that folks have expressed a concern about that I just want to kind of put on the record that we're looking at.
01:37:27
And one is the sound buffering aspect of a bridge.
01:37:30
And the other is shade.
01:37:34
It's a long expanse and it's not going to have regular trees, but
01:37:38
It may be that there might be some sort of sound buffering thing that can also provide shade on one side of the bridge.
01:37:44
Just as we look forward, I'd like to just keep those two things in mind.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
01:37:49
Yes, I have some comments, questions.
01:37:53
I think the fundamental irony of all this, though, is that
01:38:01
When the design competitions happened a couple of years ago, when we got initial feedback from the public, they did not want the MMM original design.
01:38:12
And yet that was the basis for the option that now is being compared with the underpass.
01:38:19
In reality, that was something that no one wanted.
01:38:23
And so there should have been an enhanced bridge option to compare to the underpass.
01:38:29
so that you really were comparing apples with apples.
01:38:32
But the point of the matter is that everyone is adding sound baffles, adding bike head lanes to the existing bridge, design features that would make it something to be proud of and worthy of this city.
01:38:53
But those are the very things that would have made the cost equivalent to the $27 million.
01:38:58
I think we're underestimating how much that design is.
01:39:03
And so we've got to really understand that there may not be as huge of a difference in cost when you start computing it based on higher design standards.
01:39:14
And I do have a question.
01:39:16
How much have we spent already in design and engineering?
01:39:20
$1 million?
Jim Tolbert
Director of Neighborhood Development Services
01:39:21
I don't have that number.
01:39:22
I think it's around a half a million, but I can get the number.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
01:39:24
Okay, so then it's like 15 million compared to the 27 million, but again the 15 million was based on a design that was rejected by the public because it was too
01:39:36
much like standard Federal Highway.
Jim Tolbert
Director of Neighborhood Development Services
01:39:40
And again, what we did not include in the underpass option was any of the design or environmental costs which would be in the millions of dollars up there too.
01:39:48
So it is a comparison more of construction costs and not of, and I hear your point for that, but the design cost is not in either one at this point.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:40:00
I would disagree with Ms. Galvin that the underpass would be about the same price as the bridge.
01:40:08
I cannot imagine that being true.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:40:11
Well, the thing is we don't know.
01:40:13
Well, I have a question.
01:40:15
Does this bridge have to be higher if it's rebuilt like the Fry's Spring Bridge was in order to accommodate the double cars?
Jim Tolbert
Director of Neighborhood Development Services
01:40:24
Or does it already accommodate?
01:40:26
The minimum requirement is 24 and a half and I think it's already there.
01:40:28
Do you remember whether the design?
01:40:31
It may have to be adjusted some, but I don't remember that.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:40:35
Good question.
01:40:37
I would be curious to see, and maybe this is a jump in.
01:40:41
It is higher than that one.
01:40:42
Yeah, the Fry's Spring, it's surprising how much higher it is, and therefore the slope, and therefore the biped, and it's got a lot of ramifications.
01:40:52
But I would be curious as we move forward, particularly as we go to a public process, to see where along the tracks our current at-grade crossings are.
01:41:04
just because I'm for instance down you know smack downtown both 2nd and 4th Street have them and we're talking about putting a city market on the other side of the tracks on you know having people walk across those tracks I if you know I know the railroad said no more but I really do wonder if if as we explore explore this that if there's any you know
01:41:33
possibility that the railroad would negotiate with us, would work with us.
01:41:38
That's the really, really critical piece missing and really that's holding up sort of all of these processes is being able to go from Belmont to downtown or being able to go from Belmont to water.
01:41:51
We have these elaborate bridges, pedestrian bridges.
01:41:53
I mean, if we had that, it would open up so much better use of the land that's under the bridge or over the bridge or whichever one we choose.
01:42:03
I mean, that piece alone would make such a dramatic difference.
SPEAKER_30
01:42:11
Well, I have a concern about the pedestrian sort of flyover, which I love.
01:42:20
I love the idea of a pedestrian flyover, but my experience on city council has been that those things always get cut out.
01:42:26
You know, we had one or two over on the McIntyre Road
01:42:29
But there is a provision for sidewalk and bike on the bridge
01:42:51
Well, but this goes back to my earlier comment and a couple of the speakers mentioned this is that if we do the bridge we want to make sure that it doesn't have, sorry, about half-assed, you know, bike pad infrastructure included in it because particularly if we end up cutting out the flyover.
01:43:11
So it really needs to have, you know,
Jim Tolbert
Director of Neighborhood Development Services
01:43:15
The work that Mr. O'Shea has done on the bridge has enhanced sidewalks.
01:43:20
They're both wider than normal, but the one, I believe it's on the west side, are 12, 14 feet wide if I'm not mistaken.
01:43:27
And that's, again, that's just, that's taking it one step further, but that's not a design at this point.
01:43:33
Again, I didn't put the pedestrian bridge in there because simply it's not eligible for this VDOT funding, and so we're going to have to pay for it one way or the other.
01:43:44
and it won't be cut out necessarily, it'll have to be added back in on either one.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:43:49
And it's to sling us up.
01:43:52
When it's just like from here to there, you can see it, you can smell it, you can almost touch it, but you can't get across those tracks unless you don't.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:44:01
I'm not sure you want to encourage air grade crossing the pedestrians.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:44:07
We do it already, people are going to do it anyway, and so let's make it as safe as possible.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
01:44:15
Other questions or comments?
01:44:18
We're not discussing this yet.
01:44:20
We're just doing the questions.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:44:22
We can discuss all in a minute.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
01:44:23
Well, we're not deciding tonight.
01:44:25
I know, but I mean, in terms of giving direction on the next stage, which is the public process.
01:44:32
You know, again, I must say that there's another little irony here that the places on task force in the last two letters is community engagement.
01:44:41
The group, yes, technically was not required to be visited again before it came to council but on the meeting last week we had it on our agenda and it might have been good if we had had a chance to talk about this because I think the committee, the task force does have ideas on how this needs to be presented to the public and how we can really have a very open, honest exchange.
01:45:09
I personally think that the public wants to see that third way and I want to see what that third way might be because right now we've got the original MM design and we've got the underpass and we've never really understood the cost implications of that enhanced bridge so we
01:45:36
The underpass had enormous two and three times the amount of contingencies ladled on it as opposed to the original bridge.
01:45:48
We need to estimate some contingencies for the extra cost for design for a bridge that this public would really fall in love with and feel as becomes iconic of the city.
01:46:00
I do feel pretty strongly about that and I recommend that this council
01:46:06
used the place design task force to help create and work with staff to come up with a process, clarify how we present the information, have comparative tables so that you're really looking at things apples to apples across the way.
01:46:23
And when we don't know, we honestly say no.
01:46:25
We just don't have that information yet.
01:46:28
But I personally don't, I can't make a decision until I get a better public read, a better read from the public about
01:46:36
where they stand because tonight it was like 50-50 for and against.
01:46:41
And I don't feel that that's, I want a little bit more information.
01:46:47
I think we could do a much more thorough job in getting that information from the public provided we meet them better than halfway with the information and how it's presented.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
01:46:58
I have to say I'm a little cautious about
01:47:01
sort of accusing staff of lying in this report because I don't think that that's what's happening.
01:47:06
I did not say that.
01:47:07
Mr. Tolbert has said that we are looking at using the place design task force as a consultant in this next process and I think it's exactly what's being proposed.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
01:47:19
This is post-decision from council.
01:47:24
I'm saying... No, we're not making a decision tonight.
01:47:26
Well, the idea was a design.
01:47:27
Once the council decides on a design, it would be designed by them.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:47:32
Well, I think council can decide whether they will proceed with a bridge idea or with a 100-pass idea and subject to design afterwards.
01:47:42
The design has to be... Before it can be designed, we need to decide in some way that what
01:47:48
What are those two alternatives you'd like to pursue?
01:47:51
And what are those two alternatives the staff would like to pursue?
01:47:56
I think it will be useful to see if the Council can make up its mind whether you want a bridge or not a pass.
SPEAKER_30
01:48:04
I think Ms. Galvin made a great point about the need to have a better sense from a design perspective what this bridge could look like.
01:48:13
Can it be the kind of world-class bridge that, you know, the world-class amenity and infrastructure that we deserve, that we want, that our public wants?
01:48:20
And whatever resources we can draw, that's a place to have.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:48:26
You need to make a decision.
01:48:27
If you want an enhanced bridge, you need to decide if you want a bridge, because then it can be designed.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
01:48:33
I'm not sure that we're being asked to make that decision tonight, maybe to weigh in on it, but I'm not sure that that's really before us.
01:48:41
It isn't on the agenda as an action item.
Maurice Jones
City Manager
01:48:44
What we were asking council to do was help provide us with some guidance on next steps when it comes to community engagement on this process.
01:48:51
And that could include and should include the place design task force as part of that engagement process.
01:48:58
So we certainly could do that.
01:48:59
And then we'd suggested the possibility of holding a public meeting.
01:49:03
We had suggested the possibility of having a work session.
01:49:06
So that's what we're asking for tonight from city council.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:49:12
What are we going to be designing?
SPEAKER_30
01:49:13
Well, I would suggest that we move forward with the notion of coming up with an enhanced bridge option that is truly reflective of the community's desires and also has a realistic price tag associated with it.
01:49:35
And if we find that all the things that we want in that bridge are going to cost $25 million, then maybe we
01:49:42
come back to this point and say it's a much different choice at that point.
01:49:48
But I would say my default position is as Mr. Freilich.
01:49:55
I was early on in this process, I was very intrigued by the underpass and I still think it has a lot going for it.
01:50:00
But at this point, I've heard from a lot of people in Belmont.
01:50:05
In fact, I'm getting unsolicited phone calls from people in Belmont saying,
01:50:09
We're not really sure about this underpass thing, but we do want a really good bridge.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:50:14
Is it a motion?
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:50:18
I'm not sure that we're ready for that.
01:50:22
If we're going to get a better design for an overpass bridge as one of our options, we need to know what to tell you.
01:50:32
What do we want?
01:50:34
Do we want two lanes?
01:50:35
Do we want four lanes?
01:50:36
candle levered sides and I think that's for the public really.
01:50:42
But you need to know what to design.
01:50:45
Well I'm not sure the public really feels that they've had a good enough say.
01:50:56
Our instructions here are to give input on how to do public engagement and what should we
01:51:06
ask the public, what should we offer and what should we ask from the public and you know I think we've heard a lot tonight about what kinds of ideas the public has and I think that's what we need.
01:51:17
We need, you know, we're either going to go over or under but what are the qualitative, what do you want it to do?
01:51:25
Do you want it to be a thoroughfare or do you just want it to be a local street?
01:51:29
Do you want it to be?
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:51:31
You decided in my mind somehow
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:51:34
I still think we've done that yet and there wasn't I know there was a public meeting but everybody's very upset about the public meeting so I don't think that counts I think we need we need to have
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
01:51:48
I think that Mr. Norris has expressed kind of where I am on this not to say we don't want an underpass at this point but to say let's explore the bridge because that seems like the likeliest option to bring in a lot of public engagement to talk about what would what would a bridge look like what could a bridge do how would it act how would it feel how would it look
01:52:10
And that's what I said.
01:52:12
And that's what I said.
01:52:14
We don't have to somehow say that it's not what being truthful, what staff was suggesting.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:52:18
I want to say also that I agree with Mr. Norris and Ms. Szakos that we ought to explore the bridge of design.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
01:52:29
Is that enough guidance?
01:52:31
So I do have a question now.
01:52:33
Is this something that we need to then have basically three options?
01:52:39
that are going out to the public and we're getting public information on that.
01:52:44
Is that what we're doing?
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:52:46
I want some clarification.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
01:52:51
Well the bridge now, the bridge that was estimated here is not the bridge.
01:52:56
Nobody wants that bridge.
01:52:57
Okay, so we're going to an enhanced bridge with the underpass option.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:53:02
No.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
01:53:04
So we're only giving the public one option.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:53:06
That's right.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
01:53:08
We are.
01:53:09
I thought we were getting some more input from the public on what direction they wanted to go in.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:53:14
It seems that at least the majority of the council feels that the bridge is an enhanced bridge would be appropriate.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:53:22
I don't see why we need at this point, particularly since we didn't put on our agenda that we were going to make a major decision like this, why not take that to the public along with the third option?
01:53:36
or you know again I think we need more sort of real basic
01:53:41
parameters for how this bridge is going to function.
01:53:47
We've gotten some great questions and the public engagement could be like that.
01:53:53
This is the kind of information, this kind of feedback we've gotten, here are the answers to those questions.
01:53:58
I've already told you I want to see where the back grade crossings are along the railroad.
01:54:04
You can even solicit more and have the
01:54:09
have the public meeting to say, give us your ideas.
01:54:12
Here are ideas that have come out there.
01:54:15
How do you feel about them?
01:54:16
What's important to you?
01:54:17
People are going to say sound baffling is important to me.
01:54:19
Someone's going to say that it's not a highway going through our city is important to me.
01:54:24
Bike pad's going to be big.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
01:54:26
If we, though, are going to say the underpass is an option that we want people to weigh in on, I think we need to be really clear.
01:54:35
that as a taxpayer are you willing to pay the difference between 15 and potentially 30 out of local money which would probably involve a tax increase are you willing to have no traffic through that area for up to a year are you willing to pay a million dollars to LexisNexis because they would lose access to their
01:54:54
to the bonded route that they have through there.
01:54:57
So as long as it's clear what the choices are, it's not like would you rather have an underpass or a bridge, but would you rather have an underpass with all of these additional costs and downsides.
01:55:12
or maybe focus our attention on a bridge.
01:55:16
Like I said, I'm not really for taking it out of the equation because we may find that a bridge ends up looking like along those same costs and then we want to balance the two.
01:55:26
But I don't want to waste a whole lot of public time looking at designs for underpasses when we're really not seriously considering it.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:55:33
Yeah, I wasn't talking about looking more enhanced.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
01:55:38
I'm all for putting it on the table, but I just want to make it really clear why it's not likely to go forward.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:55:45
We can say that.
01:55:47
I think to make that decision tonight would
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
01:55:50
I agree with you.
01:55:52
I agree as well.
01:55:53
I'm just saying that if we do, we have to be absolutely transparent about what that means because I don't think it would be fair to folks to say, hey, you know, here are two nice options, which would you rather have?
SPEAKER_30
01:56:03
I think the primary focus of this next phase is what, if we were going to do a bridge, what kind of bridge would the community want?
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:56:10
This way.
SPEAKER_30
01:56:11
Right?
01:56:12
And then, because we did, as Ms. Smith said and as Elizabeth said, we did not advertise that we were going to make a decision tonight.
01:56:19
So, but I think that needs to be the focus now.
01:56:22
If we're going to do a bridge, what kind of bridge would the community want?
01:56:25
Then we can bring that back to council, have a decision at that point.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
01:56:30
I agree.
01:56:30
I still think we need public input.
SPEAKER_30
01:56:33
Absolutely.
01:56:33
Right.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
01:56:34
Before it comes to council.
SPEAKER_30
01:56:35
I totally agree.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
01:56:36
Okay.
01:56:36
That was a step that I wanted to underline.
SPEAKER_30
01:56:37
That's what I'm talking about.
01:56:39
This is all about getting the input from the public.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
01:56:41
And as part of that, there should always be the previous boards of this is where we came from.
01:56:47
and then you get that enhanced bridge design and that is the design that is more in keeping of an equivalency to measure against the cost of an underpass option.
01:56:58
That is all I'm saying.
SPEAKER_30
01:57:00
I totally agree.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:57:03
And what would it take, Mr. Tolbert, to get enough of an enhanced bridge design to offer to the public to compare to the two that we've seen here?
Jim Tolbert
Director of Neighborhood Development Services
01:57:14
I think what I'd like to do is at the October meeting a place come and talk, as Ms. Galvin suggested, about their ideas about what it would take to get to that point.
01:57:26
We would have to re-engage our design team and get them to produce that.
01:57:31
I mean, again, through a process of talking to the public, working with place, and put something together.
01:57:36
So we're talking a few months of work there to get that together.
01:57:42
you know that when we engaged site works it was not just to look at an underpass it was to look at an enhanced bridge also and so they've done some of that work and you know it's just maybe not to the same level that the underpass but they've done a good bit of that work and again it's a matter of them going back and having that conversation in the community I think this is very helpful.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
01:58:05
And I agree that we should have some public input before we come up with a design I mean it's fine to bring the
01:58:11
to bring that as one example, but I think people may come up with other things that a design then would incorporate.
Jim Tolbert
Director of Neighborhood Development Services
01:58:17
I guess, to be clear, what I'm saying is go to place, get some suggestions for what they think we need to show to get that conversation going, then go to the public, have that conversation about that, let them do a little work, and then come back to you to be able to do that.
01:58:30
Very good.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
01:58:30
Right, just so the public can get a sense for what the bridge that everybody rejected versus what it means.
Jim Tolbert
Director of Neighborhood Development Services
01:58:36
And again, I think we've moved beyond what the bridge
01:58:39
That everybody rejected where it is because of the work SiteWorks done.
01:58:44
I think that bridge had gotten rejected a year and a half, almost two years ago.
01:58:48
We're well beyond that even with the work that SiteWorks did.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:58:51
You need to focus on the last bridge basically.
Jim Tolbert
Director of Neighborhood Development Services
01:58:53
Yes, we can do that.
01:58:55
Okay.
01:58:56
Thank you.
4. ORDINANCE* Supporting Equal Access to Employee Benefits for All Lawfully Married City Employees (1st of 2 readings)
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
01:59:03
Next item on the agenda is the ordinance.
01:59:08
Who's presenting that?
Craig Brown
City Attorney
01:59:11
Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, if I may, this is a relatively short ordinance that's offered tonight on first reading, so I'll just go ahead and read it.
01:59:24
It's taken with slight change from an ordinance that was proposed in Richmond.
01:59:30
To the extent hereafter permitted or required by law, the city hereby recognizes same-sex marriages that have lawfully occurred in other states and as such shall extend to the partners of city employees in same-sex marriages that have lawfully occurred in other states.
01:59:48
All of the benefits offered to the spouses of city employees in heterosexual marriages.
01:59:53
To the extent hereafter permitted or required by law, the word spouse shall include the partner of a city employee in a same sex marriage that has lawfully occurred in another state.
02:00:05
This is worded in terms of city benefits.
02:00:09
I think to give you an example and probably the most significant would be health care coverage.
02:00:16
Right now a city employee who has, who is married to an opposite sex partner can purchase health insurance for his or her partner.
02:00:30
a city employee who has a same sex partner even if lawfully married under the laws of another state or country cannot purchase health insurance for his or her spouse.
02:00:43
That's not the result of any decision the city of Charlottesville has made or for that matter any locality in the state.
02:00:50
It is the result of state law.
02:00:55
I have quoted in my agenda memo to you for a number of years the statutory in law in Virginia has stated that a marriage between persons of the same sex is prohibited, any marriage entered into by persons of the same sex in another state or jurisdiction shall be void in all respects in Virginia.
02:01:15
That was also enacted into the Virginia Constitution effective January 1st, 2007.
02:01:21
The first sentence of that constitutional provision reads that only a union between one man and one woman may be a marriage valid in or recognized by this Commonwealth and its political subdivisions.
02:01:36
So obviously we cannot enact an ordinance that changes that.
02:01:42
We are precluded by state law from recognizing marriages which are completely valid and lawful in other states if they are marriages between individuals of the same sex.
02:01:55
What this ordinance does is expresses council's policy and council's intent that if the day comes in Virginia, as it has in some other states,
02:02:06
where same sex marriages are recognized or where Virginia decides to recognize same sex marriages that are lawful in other states that you as an employer will treat city employees the same regardless of whether their spouse is of the opposite sex or the same sex.
02:02:26
I will be happy to answer any questions that you might have about that.
SPEAKER_30
02:02:30
Thank you, Mr. Brown, that's helpful.
02:02:33
Your cover memo focuses exclusively on the issue of health benefits, which is, as you say, it's the most important benefit that we provide to employees.
02:02:47
But there are a wide range of benefits that a city employee has access to.
02:02:56
As I understand it, state law is very clear that political subdivisions like the City of Charlottesville are expressly prohibited from providing health insurance to same-sex couples, is that correct?
02:03:11
Yes sir.
02:03:13
What does state law have to say about other benefits that city employees have access to?
Craig Brown
City Attorney
02:03:18
The state code in terms of benefits allows a locality to provide benefits to its employees and dependents.
02:03:30
That has been interpreted by the Virginia Supreme Court in what I think is a very narrow fashion.
02:03:38
I think a number of years ago, Arlington County attempted to define dependents as unmarried domestic partners, whether same sex or opposite sex.
02:03:49
And the state of Virginia, the Supreme Court, said you can't do that.
02:03:53
That's a violation of the Dylan Rule.
02:03:55
You don't have the authority to do that.
02:03:57
Slightly different than this constitutional issue that involves same-sex marriages.
02:04:04
So I think the state of the law in Virginia is you are precluded from recognizing same-sex marriages in a sense that would allow you to provide any benefits.
SPEAKER_30
02:04:20
almost all other benefits that we provide today to city employees short of health insurance we currently allow by administrative decision not by city official city policy or city council policy or ordinance but by administrative
02:04:41
Choice, we allow partners in same-sex relationships to access.
02:04:47
For instance, a city employee who has a subsidized membership in a gym.
02:04:57
can apply that towards a family membership, right?
02:05:01
That's the decision of the health club.
Craig Brown
City Attorney
02:05:03
We provide a subsidy for the employee and then anything above that subsidy the employee pays for and whether they qualify for a family membership or a couples membership or a
02:05:17
I don't think that's the city's decision.
SPEAKER_30
02:05:19
But the city currently allows, as long as the health clubs are okay with it, the city currently allows partners, city employees with same-sex partners to enroll in the city subsidized membership.
02:05:34
The city pays for the membership.
02:05:35
But it's a city subsidized health club membership.
Craig Brown
City Attorney
02:05:40
Which we provide to city employees.
02:05:42
We don't provide any benefit to spouses.
SPEAKER_30
02:05:46
of City Employees.
02:05:52
I'm not sure I'm aware of what those benefits would be.
02:06:01
So for instance, Employee Assistance Program.
02:06:05
Right now, there are certain components of the Employee Assistance Program that family members can participate in, that can benefit from, from the city's Employee Assistance Program.
02:06:18
And we allow city employees by administrative decision to include same-sex partners
02:06:24
I'm not aware of that decision.
02:06:27
Life insurance.
02:06:28
City subsidized life insurance.
02:06:29
We allow city employees to designate a same-sex partner as the beneficiary of their life insurance.
Craig Brown
City Attorney
02:06:34
Well, Mr. Norris, you can designate anyone as a beneficiary under a life insurance policy.
SPEAKER_30
02:06:39
My point is that we have methodically been taking down those walls internally in City Hall administratively for years now.
Craig Brown
City Attorney
02:06:51
No, sir, I would disagree with that, I'm sorry.
02:06:54
I mean, we have always, people have always been allowed to designate whoever they want as a beneficiary under their life insurance policy.
02:07:01
There has not been an administrative decision that I'm aware of that has allowed someone to say, all right, you are now allowed to name a same-sex partner as your beneficiary.
SPEAKER_30
02:07:11
Okay, so we allow it by default, but I'm saying that in all these cases,
02:07:16
A city employee can, and the reason I ask about the gym memberships is because when I got on city council I asked this question.
02:07:24
And they said, no, you can't sign up a same-sex partner on your family gym membership.
02:07:31
And I said, well, why not?
02:07:32
And they said, well, because the gyms haven't approved it.
02:07:35
It's a gym decision, as you said.
02:07:37
So I went personally as a city council member to ACAC Gold's Gym.
02:07:41
And I said, do you have any problem with city employees signing up same-sex partners for the city subsidized gym membership?
02:07:47
They said, no, we have no problem at all.
02:07:49
And from that day forward, you were allowed to sign up a same-sex partner as a city employee.
02:07:55
And so my point is that state law seems pretty clear in terms of health insurance coverage.
02:08:05
There's been a court case, as I understand it, about health insurance.
02:08:10
issue and they were very clear to say when it comes to health benefits you can't enroll same-sex partners but it seems to me that there's a gray area when it comes to other benefits and one of the reasons why I think this ordinance is more than just symbolic is because it would enshrine in city policy some of those
02:08:34
administrative decisions or even if the administrative decision was not to prohibit it.
Craig Brown
City Attorney
02:08:43
I would just, for the record, with all due respect I would disagree.
02:08:49
I can't in good faith say that I think it is a gray area.
02:08:53
I don't think that the state code nor the Constitution speaks in terms of specific benefits.
02:09:00
It is a blanket, absolute, unequivocal prohibition on recognizing
02:09:07
Marriages between same-sex couples that are lawful under other states.
02:09:12
And I don't know of any other way to interpret that.
02:09:15
But reasonable people have different interpretations.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
02:09:19
So may I ask, Mr. North, how would you rewrite the ordinance then?
SPEAKER_30
02:09:24
My own preference, frankly, and I know Mr. Brown probably won't like this very much, my own preference would be in that second sentence where it says, first of all, we recognize same-sex marriages performed in other states as permitted by law.
02:09:42
We could leave that.
02:09:43
But in the second sentence where it says, we will agree to extend
02:09:48
benefits to people in same-sex marriages performed lawfully in other states, I would add, or people in domestic partnerships or civil unions.
02:10:04
And if it gets challenged, it gets challenged.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
02:10:06
In my mind, it's, well... After the sentence, or after the phrase, to the extent hereafter permitted or required by law,
02:10:17
the word spousal include the partner of a city employee in a same-sex marriage this lawfully occurred in another state or a sub... Well, there's a sentence right before that.
SPEAKER_30
02:10:25
I don't have it in front of me.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
02:10:29
But that then goes back to what Mr. Brown had talked about where there was a problem with the word dependent in the Arlington County versus White because then it began to include the unmarried domestic partners of county employees and that is
02:10:45
That is what I saw was struck down by the Virginia Supreme Court, which would flow into that category of dependent.
02:10:54
Correct?
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
02:10:57
I have a concern that as much as I want state law to be different, as much as I want the city to give benefits to all domestic partner couples and feel that the state law is wrong,
02:11:16
and recognize that the idea in principle of civil disobedience, I think we also have taken an oath to uphold the Constitution.
02:11:24
And I'm torn by that because I think that the Constitution in this case is wrong, which is why I think that this ordinance gets at what we're trying to do while we continue to try to push to change either the Constitution or move to a court case.
02:11:39
And I think because there are already court cases, I don't think we need to be that one.
02:11:46
So I'm more comfortable with it as it is, although I wish it were more.
SPEAKER_30
02:11:52
Just for the record, what I was suggesting that we do, and if I can be clear, I'm going to vote for this either way, but I do think it will be a strong ordinance if we say, to the extent hereafter permit or require by law the city hereby recognize the same-sex marriages that have lawfully occurred in other states and as such shall extend to the partners of city employees and same-sex marriages that have lawfully occurred in other states
02:12:16
comma, as well as city employees and domestic partnerships or civil unions, comma, all of the benefits offered to the spouses of city employees and heterosexual Americans.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
02:12:25
How about in same-sex marriages or civil unions that have lawfully occurred in other states?
SPEAKER_30
02:12:32
That's fine.
Craig Brown
City Attorney
02:12:35
Let me fill in one other thing that I have kind of skipped over that I should have mentioned and again the genesis of this was an ordinance that was proposed in Richmond and the one that I brought to you tonight is slightly different.
02:12:58
The one in Richmond
02:13:00
begins with, to the extent now or hereafter permitted or required by law.
02:13:05
And I have left out the word now.
02:13:09
and said to the extent hereafter permitted or required by law because in my mind it is clear that it is not now under the law of Virginia permitted or required by law and it concerned me that you would be adopting something that could be misinterpreted and would be misleading to someone who's not well versed in Virginia law and said well maybe it is now permitted
02:13:36
I don't think a reasonable argument can be made that it is under the laws that now exist.
02:13:41
So that is a slight difference between what was proposed in Richmond and what I have brought to you.
02:13:49
I did feel it was incumbent upon me to point out that difference.
02:13:53
I mentioned it in the agenda memo.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
02:13:56
Any questions?
02:13:58
One more word.
Craig Brown
City Attorney
02:14:00
As I have explained in my mind, and I understand Councilman Norris has a different perspective, but in my mind this is a statement of Council's policy should the law change.
02:14:20
The way this is worded to me says that we are prepared to offer the same benefits to same-sex partners of city employees if they're lawfully married, as we do to city employees who are lawfully married to opposite-sex partners.
02:14:38
And that policy can include
02:14:41
unmarried domestic partners or other categories, but it still remains a statement of intent only.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
02:14:54
I have a question.
02:14:57
Could you, Mr. Brown, please explain what is the intention behind the state providing such benefits to the institution of marriage?
02:15:09
Why do we have these benefits?
02:15:12
Why is it in the state's interest to provide benefits to married couples?
Craig Brown
City Attorney
02:15:19
I'm sorry.
02:15:20
I don't understand you.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
02:15:21
Well, I mean, I'm just wondering why is this an issue at all?
02:15:27
Why is it that if we have this option for married couples and there is the distinction between domestic partners or just girlfriends and boyfriends or whatever, what is it about marriage?
02:15:39
that the state feels deserves extra benefits and supports?
Craig Brown
City Attorney
02:15:46
I think that gets into the policy realm rather than the legal realm.
02:15:49
I'm not sure I'm comfortable asking that.
02:15:52
As I say, I think the statutory
02:15:56
Law has been the same in Virginia for quite some time that says we will not recognize same-sex marriages in other jurisdictions.
02:16:06
I believe what has happened is that similar laws in other jurisdictions have been successfully challenged in court.
02:16:14
often under an argument that the statute is unconstitutional under the state's own constitution.
02:16:23
And I think Virginia's response to that was to incorporate that rule into its constitution.
02:16:30
It's very hard to say that a particular statute is unconstitutional when your state constitution says the exact same thing.
02:16:40
I frankly thought that the Arlington County decision, which said Arlington County does not have the authority to define dependents when the state code says you may provide benefits to your employees and their dependents.
02:17:02
I thought that was an extremely narrow conservative ruling and really, even if we didn't have these state constitutional provisions and the state statutes, really kind of limited the options that localities had
02:17:21
and it's especially poignant in that Arlington County is like Charlottesville and it is self-insured.
02:17:30
We're not purchasing insured.
02:17:32
You would think and someone I recall
02:17:36
You know, an email exchange that I believe Councilor Norris had with a constituent who raised a very legitimate question of why can't we provide benefits to the people we want to provide benefits to?
02:17:49
And you would think the answer would be, certainly we can, but legally we can't.
SPEAKER_30
02:17:57
So, that actually
02:17:59
Leads to the next question I had which was, so there is a cash value to the subsidy that we provide to employees for their family health insurance plans, is that right?
Craig Brown
City Attorney
02:18:12
We don't provide a subsidy for family health.
SPEAKER_30
02:18:15
You can buy a family health insurance plan through the city for your spouse and children.
Craig Brown
City Attorney
02:18:23
Does that have some value?
SPEAKER_30
02:18:24
The city doesn't contribute to that.
02:18:31
Okay, so the city doesn't, I mean, I assume there's a, it's a, there is an inherent subsidy in it, though, in that if you were to go out and buy a family plan out on the open market, you're going to probably pay more because you're part of the city's group plan.
Craig Brown
City Attorney
02:18:47
I would, I don't know, but I would think that would be the case, that there's some, some economy of scale due to the size of the city as a, as a insurer.
SPEAKER_30
02:18:55
Otherwise, why would city employees participate in the city's health plan?
02:18:59
My guess is that most of them do.
02:19:00
Is that fair to say?
Craig Brown
City Attorney
02:19:02
Unless they have insurance elsewhere.
SPEAKER_30
02:19:04
Unless they have insurance elsewhere.
02:19:07
So would it be a violation of state law for the city to say, OK, there is a cash value, a monetary value, to that subsidy or to participating in the city's health insurance plan?
02:19:24
and that because the state law is openly discriminatory when it comes to how families are defined, how spouses are defined, that we will allow employees in lawful same-sex relationships, civil unions or marriages, to
02:19:46
qualify for an equivalent monetary subsidy, if you will, that they can then use to purchase health insurance outside of the city's plan.
02:19:57
Would that be a violation of state law from your reading?
Craig Brown
City Attorney
02:20:01
Yes, sir.
02:20:02
It would.
SPEAKER_30
02:20:02
Because?
Craig Brown
City Attorney
02:20:04
Until a court says it is unlawful discriminatory action on the part of the state, I think it
02:20:13
Well, you're providing a benefit based on a status that the state has said you cannot recognize.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
02:20:23
Let me say, we at least agree on the ordinance which we have in our package.
02:20:30
And there's a start of our intent.
02:20:35
I support that ordinance.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
02:20:37
I would like to make one three-word amendment to this ordinance, which I think
02:20:42
You've said would be acceptable.
02:20:46
So on the third line, employees in same-sex marriages or civil unions that have lawfully occurred in other states, because those are also legally binding unions that are recognized for the same purpose as marriage by law in other states.
Craig Brown
City Attorney
02:21:02
You probably realize this, but for explanation, there is a certain thing called common law marriages, which if two people live together for a certain period of time, that relationship assumes the attributes of a lawful marriage.
02:21:15
Virginia does not recognize common law marriage.
02:21:17
That's still marriage.
02:21:19
But that would fall within the category of the civil union.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
02:21:22
The second to the motion.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
02:21:25
Second.
02:21:27
For the decision.
SPEAKER_30
02:21:28
Is there any reason why we couldn't just strike the word hereafter and just say to the extent permitted or required by law?
Craig Brown
City Attorney
02:21:36
Again, I think that raises an issue of whether it is currently permitted or required by law and I would hate for it to give that impression.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
02:21:50
So is this the motion to amend or the motion to pass?
Craig Brown
City Attorney
02:21:53
It's for free.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
02:21:56
So I move that we adopt this ordinance with the addition of those three words.
02:22:02
I'll just change the order when I say it.
02:22:03
Second.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
02:22:04
Okay.
02:22:05
So we'll move the second reading next time.
02:22:08
Thank you very much.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
02:22:10
And I just want to thank Councilor Norris for bringing this to us and for finding an enrichment
02:22:15
because I think that although we all understand that it's an imperfect instrument, it's important that we stand up for what's right even when we can't always do it.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
02:22:24
Thank you.
5. REPORT Rivanna Quarterly Report
SPEAKER_04
02:22:45
I'd like to take a few moments to give you an update on some of the more important matters that are going on with respect to the Rivanna authorities.
02:22:56
Following the outline I provided to you earlier, the first item is the granular activated carbon or water treatment plants.
02:23:04
As you know, we're pursuing an evaluation of what this community has come to lovingly call hybrid options.
02:23:14
That report is due to the public this week.
02:23:17
It should be on our website by Friday and will be discussed by our board of directors a week from tomorrow.
02:23:24
I can tell you at this point that the analysis appears to be more cut and dry than we once expected.
02:23:31
It may help you to know that the idea of hybrid options for GAC is real out of the box thinking.
02:23:38
It's not something that's been, we've not found anyone who's done this kind of analysis before.
02:23:44
So we're developing something from scratch and we developed it with certain expectations and visions as to what it might yield.
02:23:50
We thought initially it might yield three different ideas or ways to use GAC from one end that provides a lower quality water to achieve a price to providing a very, very, very high quality water and more expensive price
02:24:10
What our consultant is finding is that there actually are trade-offs in costs with blending.
02:24:16
If you begin to scale back too far, how much GAC you put into a water treatment facility, then that part that you treat with GAC has to be much higher quality in order to blend with the
02:24:29
other water and yet achieve the regulations.
02:24:32
And in order to achieve the higher quality it means you have to change out the carbon more often and that drives up operating costs.
02:24:39
So in fact what you're going to see when this report comes out is that there are trade-offs between capital and operating costs and there really aren't as many variations of options for a hybrid as we once envisioned or thought.
02:24:53
We had indicated that we would have a public process and we still I think should go through with some sort of public process and our board will discuss next week if we want to start with something simple and work up from there only as the situation requires or if we want to go straight to a public meeting.
02:25:14
So stay tuned for that discussion.
02:25:17
We will be pushing for a board decision in November.
02:25:20
I hate with things like this to have to be the one that pushes, but we had very challenging negotiations with the Virginia Department of Health when we went back to them and said that our community had decided to go with carbon because the state felt that we were very far along on the need to meet a deadline by EPA.
02:25:39
and they were not very willing to give us the time that I would really have liked to have had so we're sort of hemmed in to that situation.
02:25:50
The next item on my outline is a retreat for the board of directors which is something that our board has not done often but wish to try this time and talk some more broadly about
02:26:05
what kind of services we want to provide and what our vision and perhaps mission statement might be for our organization.
02:26:13
We've had some discussion between staff and board at some of our recent meetings about some of the value-added services that we are providing in our community that are somewhat unique, that most utilities don't provide enough provided examples in the memo.
02:26:30
And also some discussions about costs.
02:26:33
I think you could say, I think you could safely say we've done very well on the cost side in recent.
02:26:38
We've been working on this for the last months in the sense that we have found ways to refund some of our bonds which has lowered our debt service costs and that's just good for everyone and it doesn't change the types of services we provide.
02:26:53
But I also think, and I have had some discussions with the board in terms of my professional views more recently, that we do have to be careful that we don't create too many value-added options because of the risk of facing substantial public criticism for providing too high a cost of service.
02:27:12
and that's something I think that our board will take up further.
02:27:16
There is a more recent proposal that's out that's along the vein of finding new ways for us to spend money and it's coming from the Center for Natural Capital which you may have seen.
02:27:25
I don't think it's on your agenda tonight and you haven't dealt with.
02:27:30
The county did discuss this with the group offering a proposal which was basically that
02:27:35
Water rates, in my opinion, water rates be raised.
02:27:39
The report said take a portion of water rates, but you can't really do that without cutting vital services.
02:27:46
So it would be raising water rates to pay, to have urban citizens basically, because that's where our money comes from, have urban citizens pay rural landowners to plant trees.
02:27:57
And from a policy standpoint, I think that's something that deserves a lot of
02:28:00
Careful thought before taking on.
02:28:04
Interestingly, when the Albemarle County Board of Supervisors considered this item two weeks ago, it may be some wisdom here, they shifted gears and asked the group that
02:28:15
represents the Center for National Capital to think more in terms of how it might be able to offer riparian tree planting programs that might save the county costs on its MS4 program as opposed to a way of asking the drinking water utility to provide the program.
02:28:33
So we'll see where that ends up going.
02:28:36
Certainly from my viewpoint, there's no deadline on acting on this matter.
02:28:41
In fact, I've already briefed those who have asked me.
02:28:44
Our staff does not have the time to take on this new program right now anyway without additional support.
02:28:50
So it's not something that we could begin immediately.
02:28:55
We got some disappointing news on dredging the South Fork Reservoir.
02:29:01
Orion Marine, I will say from being in contact with them, who was our proposer for a detailed phase proposal, worked diligently in the area around the reservoir to find a deal that they felt was cost-effective with a landowner to allow for processing of material.
02:29:22
They've remained open minded to reuse of the material even though one of the property owners they were negotiating with made a condition that would not allow reuse.
02:29:32
But they ended up writing us a letter in late August that said they would not submit a detailed phase proposal because they could not find a cost effective land deal.
02:29:41
We have invited, I'm waiting for confirmation from Orion, but we have invited them to come and speak to our board next Tuesday, which I think is an excellent opportunity for the board to really have a direct dialogue and understand some of the difficulties and challenges that they faced.
02:30:00
Following that, I think our board's going to need to decide where do we want to go.
02:30:04
We've kind of run into a dead end on the process we were pursuing, which was an open-ended PPEA.
02:30:11
that have been advised and counseled by a number of citizens in this community.
02:30:16
So now we need perhaps to decide if we're going to take a different path.
02:30:22
I did want to comment in the report that the Ragged Mountain Dam project is going very well.
02:30:29
It's remaining on schedule within the budget and we are optimistically looking forward to a dedication of the facility possibly as early as next March, which is about six months away.
02:30:42
All of the underground and foundation work is complete and the earth dam is coming up.
02:30:48
Now it's about 40 feet above ground, which is about a little less than a third of the way to the top.
02:30:56
But it's like a pyramid shape, so probably well over a third of the earthen material has now been laid and compacted.
02:31:08
There will be a mediation on cost sharing between the city and the Albemarle County Service Authority for the Rivanna Pump Station with the McCammon Group on September the 27th.
02:31:21
I assume you all are already
02:31:24
Well versed on that process and a couple of counselors are participating in that process.
02:31:29
I do hope we can find a way.
02:31:30
I do hope we can find a way that doesn't cost us a lot of money to implement and will allow us to move forward.
02:31:37
As an organization, we have to push to move forward with the construction of the pump station with or without a cost share agreement because we are under a consent order from Virginia DEQ to complete the project.
02:31:50
So with that legal constraint,
02:31:52
We really have little choice but to move forward, but I think it's also the right thing to do for the environment as well.
02:31:59
In fact I think we talk about
02:32:01
When we talk about the environment and sustainability, we talk about a lot of different things in this community.
02:32:07
One thing we probably tend to overlook is the treatment of our wastewater.
02:32:11
Yet I think, and maybe I have some bias, but I think it's probably one of the most important things for the environment that we can do as a community.
02:32:19
And with the treatment facilities that we have in operation now, we are doing a very, very good job of treating the wastewater.
02:32:27
But we've also got to make sure we don't have spills from the transmission system.
02:32:33
And that's what the pump station will complete a long process of addressing.
02:32:39
And finally, the last item I probably don't need to spend a lot of time on, you proved on your consent agenda tonight to extend the McIntyre Recycling Center another six months through June 30th of 2014.
02:32:50
We do expect the county who actually initiated the request will do the same.
02:32:55
As you are aware, the county is considering other options, perhaps privatizing beginning July 1.
02:33:02
and with that will come a number of changes including perhaps changes in the way household hazardous waste and amnesty days are performed if there is no longer a Solid Waste Authority performing services at the Ivy Material Utilization Center.
02:33:17
So that's something to stay tuned for.
02:33:19
I do appreciate that Mr. Beck will be attending a meeting with our HR manager this Friday
02:33:25
It's an important conversation.
02:33:28
The employees who have dedicated their careers to the Solid Waste Authority and have worked hard deserve opportunities for other positions and I don't think that's in dispute anywhere with the changes that are being made and also we have a concern that we may not be able to carry forward services through June 30th as requested if we don't have critical mass of employees and as you can imagine when
02:33:55
It is as broadly publicized as it is that some facilities may close the end of June.
02:34:04
It's only natural that those people who are employed in those agencies are going to be looking for other opportunities that may not come on our timetable, but certainly on theirs.
02:34:14
And we certainly wish everyone the best.
02:34:18
And that completes my report.
02:34:20
I'm happy to take questions.
Maurice Jones
City Manager
02:34:22
Mr. Frederick, could you touch on one other issue that came up at our more recent event on water and sewer authority board meeting and that was the issue of wholesale metering and the plan that's part of the cost share agreement between the city and the Albemarle County Service Authority.
02:34:36
There's a report that came back from a committee that was reviewing this over the course of the last year or so.
02:34:41
Can you walk us through the committee's findings and recommendation and then also
02:34:47
In addition to that, some of the comments that you made at our last meeting about opportunities to potentially look at more cost effective ways of addressing this issue.
SPEAKER_04
02:34:58
The cost share agreement for the Ragged Mountain Dam included a provision in it that said that a metering program would be developed to better account for how much of the water that comes from water treatment plants in the urban system ends up in the city's distribution system or the Albemarle County Service Authority's distribution system.
02:35:20
We are now allocating those costs.
02:35:25
We use a couple of pieces of data.
02:35:28
One is the meter flow from the three water treatment plants, which is the total water produced.
02:35:36
Another piece of information that we use now comes from the city and from ACSA, which is your billing, composite billing totals, how much you bill your retail customers.
02:35:47
for water, but there's always a gap.
02:35:51
The retail sales do not always equal, do not usually, in fact almost always do not equal the amount of water produced and there are various reasons for that.
02:36:01
It's not all water loss or leaks as is popularly attributed to, but
02:36:07
flowing water through a fire hydrant.
02:36:09
Fire departments fighting fires.
02:36:11
Or a sprinkler system goes off in a building and many sprinkler systems are not metered.
02:36:17
And also the fact that water meters themselves for retail customers are not perfectly accurate nor are meters in water treatment plants perfectly accurate.
02:36:27
So just some of the slight inaccuracies lead to a lot of reasons why there's a component of non-revenue water.
02:36:34
The metering program's aiming to try to
02:36:37
to reduce or eliminate the allocation of non-metered water proportional to retail billings, which is how we do it now.
02:36:47
Or to see if perhaps one party, be the service authority or the city, believe that their system is tighter than the other jurisdiction system and therefore if we meter up to all the flows, we're going to find that the other party is actually using more water than everybody thinks they're using and then therefore they're going to owe us money.
02:37:07
That's kind of the way the balls are being tossed.
02:37:11
What we found though, this is not surprising, but the magnitude of it perhaps is a little bit surprising.
02:37:17
It's very difficult to get a grasp on what it would cost to do all those meters until you find out how many of them are there, how many locations.
02:37:25
Does water go from one jurisdiction to another?
02:37:29
And where are those locations?
02:37:31
And obviously if it's in the median of US 29, the cost to put a meter in there is going to be a lot greater than if it's on an easement.
02:37:40
in an area where there's no traffic.
02:37:44
So we had to know some of those details in order to price it and what our consultant found is to
02:37:49
There are over 500 locations in the water system where water flows from one jurisdiction to another.
02:37:57
Some of them are as simple as, say, a Rivanna transmission line that might have a hydrant coming off of it that belongs to the Albemarle County Service Authority.
02:38:07
So some of them are fairly simple and then some of them are much more complex, but there's over 500 total.
02:38:12
And to meter every single one of them,
02:38:14
The number that our consultant came up with was in the neighborhood of $20 million and I don't think anybody believes we should pay $20 million to decide how to allocate a dam that doesn't cost much more than that.
02:38:27
So our consultant considered a number of other options that meter the primary areas of interface but then still allow for an allocation method for those smaller
02:38:40
types of interconnections.
02:38:42
And the one that seemed to be the most popular by a committee of staff representing all three agencies called a jurisdictional approach is to put a meter every time a pipe crosses the city-county boundary, whether it's a Rivanna pipe or a city pipe or a county.
02:39:00
And with the city and the county, you have an agreement.
02:39:02
If there's a pipe that crosses the jurisdictional boundary, it changes at that boundary.
02:39:08
It changes ownership.
02:39:11
That dates back to the four-party agreement.
02:39:14
Even though, in many cases, those pipes were originally put in by the city at a time when the city was serving outside of the city corporate limits.
02:39:27
That jurisdictional approach is $6.4 million, and I did challenge the Rivanna board of directors.
02:39:36
Some told me after the meeting that was an awful courageous thing you did to put yourself out there like that, but I actually did challenge the board.
02:39:44
Maybe $6.4 million is still too much to pay to settle an agreement, and maybe there's still other ways that we can look at ways to fine tune this so it's not so expensive.
02:39:55
particularly since in this case, I can understand we decided to spend $13 million to move the Rivanna pump station.
02:40:02
I can understand that clearly in the context of what it does for a neighborhood.
02:40:07
We're spending 13 million or roughly 11 to 13 million more perhaps to have granular activated carbon instead of chloramines.
02:40:15
I can understand that argument.
02:40:16
Having a really hard time figuring out where's the benefit to the end consumer in installing meters on a water system.
02:40:23
So I challenged the board and it turned into a
02:40:26
rather I'd say fairly lengthy debate and concern.
02:40:31
We will put forward next week, try to keep this discussion going, we'll put forward some other additional ideas on what we think might be a cheaper way to do this, but I'm also encouraging other people to think outside the box and think if we can find a way to work together as agencies
02:40:50
and have fair ways of sharing costs, but it not costs so much money to implement those kinds of programs.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
02:40:58
Mr. Frederick, do you have any idea, do you have a sense or even a theory as to in this gap, this water gap, what the biggest leak is or what the biggest gap is?
02:41:13
I mean, is it fire hydrants and or I mean is it fire versus
SPEAKER_04
02:41:20
I'm going to give you an honest answer.
02:41:25
If I had to really just throw a dart against the wall, I'd say start with the accuracy of metering.
02:41:33
One thing that I know Ms. Hildebrand is very strong on is encouraging a meter change out program for the city and testing of larger meters.
02:41:44
That's a fundamental issue for water utilities, but yet it's one that municipal utilities across the country have fallen behind on.
02:41:52
And unfortunately for utilities, meters rarely speed up.
02:41:56
They often slow down when they get old.
02:41:59
When they slow down, that means they're under registering.
02:42:03
and therefore then that reflects as higher non-revenue water.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
02:42:06
Is the county doing a similar retrofit?
SPEAKER_04
02:42:08
Yes and it's fairly, with both the city and the ACSA the more intensive metering programs are fairly recent but that's a good positive thing and I hope maybe we'll tighten things up over time.
02:42:23
I will say though that 13% is what's been calculated as the percent non-revenue water.
02:42:28
That's not a bad number.
02:42:30
comparing utilities across the country, 10% is considered excellent, 15% is considered good.
02:42:37
One thing that 13% tells me is that that means we don't have this major, major problem.
02:42:42
So perhaps this theory that one utility is real tight and one utility is real loose maybe, I don't think it's as big as perhaps is being discussed.
02:42:52
And that's another reason why maybe perhaps if we were to find after spending money on metering that there's really not that big a shift, then the next thing you're going to step back and say is why did we spend all that money to find that out?
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
02:43:08
I have a couple of other questions.
02:43:10
In terms of dredging, the dredging decision, I'm sort of curious, because in the adopted plan South Fork just doesn't contribute that much of the water storage.
02:43:23
It's like 200 million gallons out of those couple billion.
02:43:27
At the end of the years.
02:43:30
After everything's all set up.
SPEAKER_04
02:43:31
We hope it will be more than that, but that's
02:43:33
That's what was conservatively estimated.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
02:43:36
Conservatively estimated and with our reduced water use is probably not even less needed.
02:43:42
So I say that because it does beg the question as to why Rivanna would pay at all for dredging if it doesn't, it's not needed for the water supply and it's not even going to be counted to the water supply.
02:43:54
Which brings me to my next question is yet there's the pressure to do it
02:44:01
comes from recreational users as well as, you know, advocates for dredging for other reasons.
02:44:08
If the rowing club or UVA or some, you know, the private landowners wanted to privately contract a dredger using their own land, their own money, would Rivanna necessarily object to that?
02:44:23
I know it's probably not a simple question.
SPEAKER_04
02:44:26
That's an interesting hypothetical question.
02:44:32
From my own viewpoint, I don't see any reason why Rivanna should object provided that.
02:44:39
the technical methods in which dredging is performed.
02:44:44
It is very clear and can be inspected to confirm that it is very clear that it is not harming the water supply.
02:44:51
But I have to qualify that and say that's my own personal view.
02:44:55
The board would make the final decision and if the board's decision is different than that I might view that then obviously that would make a difference.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
02:45:04
I was going to ask if our two representatives on the board had anything to add?
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
02:45:15
Well, Mr. Froder and I have been talking about that at some point we're going to get on the agenda and discussion about odor mitigation because that's an increasingly important problem in the city but that's further down the road and it's a complex issue I know
02:45:32
to understand why we created sub-phases to the phase that we're in now in terms of implementing the investment that we've already made.
02:45:42
But there's a cost implication.
02:45:43
So we'll get that on the board agenda, talk about it, and hopefully come back to this council to talk about what can be done, or if anything.
02:45:52
But there is $33 million that has been set aside for this process, right?
02:45:57
Am I right?
SPEAKER_04
02:45:58
There's an estimate from an engineering firm that it would cost $33 million, this is 2007, to assure the removal of 99% of the odor.
02:46:09
Our board's commitment to odor control at this point is far less than $33 million.
02:46:14
That money is not set aside and sitting there waiting.
02:46:17
It has to be obtained and has to be obtained through higher waste water, wholesale waste water rates.
02:46:23
So the question is how far do we go?
02:46:25
And that's the question the board has been wrestling with for some time.
02:46:31
And they've chosen to tackle the low hanging fruit first, the biggest gain for the smallest dollar, which makes good sense.
02:46:37
But the commitment in terms of funding is in the I think about 4 million dollar range is far short of what the engineer said it would cost to get that 99 plus percent confidence.
02:46:48
So the question is going to be now how much more money do we need to spend.
SPEAKER_30
02:46:51
This is an issue I was going to bring up.
02:46:55
I'm glad you brought up Ms. Galvin.
02:46:56
Do you think your board understands the depth of the problem?
02:47:00
Because when I was on the board, when this issue would come up, I sort of felt like there was sort of a defensiveness.
02:47:11
The reaction was one of defensiveness or even denial at times.
02:47:15
But it's a major quality of life issue for people in the southeast part of Charlottesville.
02:47:20
It's a big issue.
02:47:21
And I guarantee you if we were to advertise a public hearing on odors from the water treatment plant, we could fill this room two or three times over.
02:47:29
I mean, if people felt like it actually would make a difference for them to show up.
02:47:35
And in fact, I was going to suggest tonight that one step we could take, having read your report, and I fully agree with Smith's comments, is that we take that money that had been allocated for dredging
02:47:49
and instead use it to accelerate some of the deodorification measures that have been researched and to see if there's any support on council for at least exploring that option because it's pretty nasty, I have to say.
02:48:07
and I know you've taken some steps and I know that you personally are committed because I've talked to you about this but I really want to see what we can do to accelerate some of those improvements because the problem is really...
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
02:48:22
I want to add to Ms. Norris' comment.
02:48:24
A number of citizens come last month and it's impossible to... they even have to decide to go a weekend away from the Benmore neighborhood to avoid
02:48:37
What I can say is we interact with people in the neighborhood.
SPEAKER_04
02:48:48
I think we have a handle on what their feelings and their concerns are.
02:48:53
From a standpoint of how we operate our facilities, how we perform hygiene, we do everything that I think we reasonably can.
02:49:02
It is a problem that requires a major expenditure of money and that's where the
02:49:07
That's where the debate on the Rivanna Board of Directors is.
02:49:10
I think Ms. Galvin, certainly some of the comments that she's made with me lately, I believe she recognizes this issue and is asking questions in the neighborhood of how do we provide more funding to get more work accelerated.
02:49:29
I can't say that everyone on the Rivanna board feels exactly the same way.
02:49:33
It's a healthy debate, I think, that needs to happen.
02:49:36
You can encourage that debate to happen, and it won't take nearly as long to get that information.
02:49:42
We may even have it next week.
02:49:44
It won't take months to get that information.
02:49:46
If it's not by next week, it will certainly be available by October.
02:49:50
To have that conversation, we're getting ready to introduce our new capital improvement programs, and that was a great time to be talking about
02:49:57
How we order our priorities and how we invest our money.
02:50:01
One thing I'll say, I know a lot of people don't want to spend as much time as I might want talking about how poop is treated.
02:50:08
but the odors come from bacteria and it's the same bacteria that remove nitrogen, the same bacteria that remove phosphorus, the same bacteria that create the methane gas that's used for cogeneration of green electricity.
02:50:24
So it's a knot all tied together.
02:50:27
We can't kill the bacteria because we killed the bacteria, we killed the process.
02:50:32
So the way wastewater treatment plants deal with that issue is you provide control mechanisms
02:50:37
And control mechanisms include covering tanks with structures that have to withstand wind loads, snow loads, and that's why it gets expensive.
02:50:46
Plus you have to be able then to scrub the air underneath the cover, which involves chemicals and electricity.
02:50:54
So it's not a simple process.
SPEAKER_30
02:50:57
But if you had, say, $3.5 million, would that allow you to at least get started on some of those measures?
SPEAKER_04
02:51:04
Yes, it definitely would.
02:51:06
And what we're going to find out in the answer to the question Ms. Galvin raised earlier today is how much more is it going to take to complete what our consultant in 2007 identified as phase one of three.
02:51:18
We're still chipping away in phase one.
02:51:22
Phase one was supposed to get you a 95% confidence level.
02:51:26
It may be that the money you're talking about could get us close to or all the way through the end of phase one.
02:51:33
I'm going to try to get an answer to a question.
SPEAKER_30
02:51:36
I would like to move that we recommend, we can't decide for Rivanna, but that we recommend to the Rivanna board that they reallocate the funds in the budget for dredging to accelerate some of the deodification measures.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
02:51:52
I think that
02:51:56
We had asked for dredging.
SPEAKER_30
02:51:58
Yeah, but there's no options to do dredging.
02:51:59
We heard tonight loud and clear.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
02:52:01
The only problem with that, that $3.5 million doesn't necessarily already exist.
02:52:06
But it's in the budget.
SPEAKER_30
02:52:06
I'm talking about taking it from one category in the budget and reallocating it to another category.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
02:52:12
I wouldn't be reluctant to give up on dredging yet.
SPEAKER_30
02:52:19
What's the point of it?
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
02:52:21
One of the things that can be, I think there are maybe some other options for dredging.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
02:52:24
Yeah, and I agree with Mr. Norris that it's ridiculous to, particularly given the experience with Orion, to continue to
02:52:33
to even think about using water rates to fund that.
02:52:37
I get the reallocation.
02:52:39
I just didn't want to make it sound like there's $3.5 million sitting in an account somewhere.
02:52:46
We're still making a different kind of decision.
SPEAKER_30
02:52:49
It's not sound money.
02:52:50
I mean, it's money that actually is budgeted.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
02:52:53
I think one of the reasons that I supported judging was because a lot of people claimed that it could be made self-funding.
02:53:01
And so that was really designed kind of as a startup to make it self-funding.
02:53:05
And I think that the current experience of Orion shows that it may not be.
02:53:10
I think that I feel like that motion is a little premature for me, but I'm not against considering it in the future.
02:53:18
I don't see any reason why council can't make a strong statement to accelerate and define funds to do so.
02:53:25
And then start looking at where to find them.
SPEAKER_30
02:53:27
But we're hearing tonight from Mr. Frederick that there's really no path forward on dredging.
02:53:32
Is that safe to say?
SPEAKER_04
02:53:35
Let me back up.
02:53:38
We are at an end to the process related to PPEA.
02:53:43
That does not necessarily mean that we can't pick up another way of
02:53:48
Accomplishing, dredging, it doesn't mean it's an end in the sense that we can't do it.
02:53:54
It may mean if we're going to do it, we need to take a different approach.
02:53:58
and the approach that was recommended.
02:54:01
I think most citizens who spoke on the idea were acting in good faith, but the idea that if you provide an open-ended process, a lot of people will come and give you a very, very good price just hasn't worked out.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
02:54:13
It's one of the reasons I brought up the private folks doing it because if they're doing it for a different reason, they have a different rate of dredging perhaps, have a different even focus of where dredging might
02:54:27
Without prejudice in the discussion about whether or not dredging is a source of funding for odor control or not,
SPEAKER_04
02:54:46
One thing I would suggest is that there has been an expressed commitment to dredge in the past.
02:54:54
There are constituent groups in this community who I think still today support it.
02:55:00
It might be a good idea if we're going to end the process of reconsidering what we're going to do to invite public comment.
02:55:07
That may be one reason not to
02:55:09
not to shortcut that process tonight.
SPEAKER_30
02:55:13
You could certainly make a strong statement for odor control.
02:55:15
But I don't think we're going to get any odor control until we actually put dollars behind it.
02:55:19
And that's what I'm trying to find, some dollars.
02:55:22
And this seems to be a really logical place to start.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
02:55:26
It was years ago now that we stopped composting because of smell.
02:55:32
And is there any sort of rethinking about whether the composting
02:55:38
in fact contributed to the smell because it's my memory that it cost us about a half million dollars a year to dispose of what we used to compost.
02:55:47
Am I anywhere in the ballpark?
SPEAKER_04
02:55:50
You're in the ballpark, but I will affirm to you that there was an odor with the compost facility.
02:55:57
That's a true statement.
02:55:59
There was an odor.
02:56:01
And we worked hard at finding ways to use technology
02:56:06
as cheaply as we could to get rid of the odor and what we found was that the technology was expensive enough and our board at that time was facing a lot of other major capital expenditures.
02:56:18
and wanted the most cost-effective approach to deal with that and the most cost-effective approach was to take it out of the community and let someone else process it.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
02:56:26
And in the meantime we spent, what, two and a half, three million dollars to dispose of the compostings.
SPEAKER_30
02:56:32
Alright, let me reword my motion and maybe I'll get a third vote.
02:56:39
I would like to move that we
02:56:41
I would urge the Rivanna board to consider ways to accelerate the deodorification process and to consider the option of transferring funds from dredging into deodorification.
02:56:58
Second.
02:56:59
We're not recommending it, just urge them to consider it.
02:57:01
Add one option.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
02:57:03
I would second.
02:57:04
I don't think it is the right time for doing that personally.
SPEAKER_30
02:57:07
I would encourage everybody who doesn't understand the real urgency of this issue to spend one night in Belmont and one night in Carlton on a day when you can keep your windows up, particularly when it's overcast.
02:57:22
The stench is nauseating.
02:57:25
It's disgusting.
02:57:26
And I know Mr. Frederick is doing what he can, but he's limited by the resources that are made available to him.
02:57:34
So all I'm saying is that we ask them to consider this as one option.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
02:57:38
I think your solution is undercutting the whole process.
02:57:42
We have gone through months.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
02:57:47
But there was a motion and a second.
02:57:50
There is a question on the table.
02:57:53
I would offer an amendment that would get a third, but it may not be acceptable to the mover, which is to take out the second phrase.
02:58:01
So encourage them to.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
02:58:04
I would support that and that would give me very clear direction and I would be persistent and I could bring up in a conversation how can we bring this up in a public debate if this in fact is a viable option and get public input.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
02:58:25
Any further discussion?
02:58:32
Great, thank you.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
02:58:38
I need to ask one more question, I promised I would.
02:58:44
A citizen who works right by Ragged Mountain actually mentioned, we all know what a really horrible rainy summer this has been, but they are very concerned about the sedimentation in the creek, the water coming off of Ragged Mountain.
02:59:00
Is there any, can you record it all on any measures to control that or to measure it?
02:59:07
or was there any contingency for excessive erosion?
SPEAKER_04
02:59:15
I'm really not aware of what excessive erosion you're talking about.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
02:59:21
They said the water coming out into the creek back then actually goes to Morris Creek.
02:59:26
This is one of our TMDL's too.
SPEAKER_04
02:59:29
The entire construction area is controlled by erosion and sediment controls that are governed by permits issued by Albemarle County and it's inspected frequently.
02:59:41
And the times that I have been out there, the erosion control facilities in my view have been working extremely well.
02:59:48
And the contractor that we have
02:59:52
If you do much in the way of construction, one of the things that you learn very quickly is a lot of contractors like to cut corners on erosion control.
03:00:00
FAIL is one of the few contractors that I have found that does an extremely good job of erosion control.
03:00:07
So if there is a problem, I may not be aware of it.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
03:00:12
Next item on the agenda is a noise ordinance update.
03:00:17
Who is presenting that?
6. REPORT Noise Ordinance Update
SPEAKER_18
03:00:27
Good evening, Mr. Mayor, Council members.
03:00:30
Thank you for the opportunity to present our update for you tonight.
03:00:33
I have with me Lieutenant Upman and our Crime Analysis Detective, Rob, in case you have any questions that I'm not able to ask for you.
03:00:41
As you know, in August 2012, City Council was presented with a recommendation to increase the penalty for the violation of the City Noise Ordinance.
03:00:49
This recommendation was in large part on behalf of residents of the Venable neighborhood.
03:00:54
Shortly after presentation to council in August of 2012, the department began examining what we could do better to improve quality of service in response to the community at large.
03:01:06
We participated in numerous meetings with various UVA representatives and members of the Venable neighborhood.
03:01:13
We established a written warning system and a system in which to store that data information.
03:01:19
We revised policies and procedures governing responses to complaints, conducted additional training, purchased various equipment, and ultimately deployed a plan that we believed was fair to all.
03:01:32
It was well into December 2012, January 2013, before our plan was realized and fully operational.
03:01:40
At first glance, the data that we have previously presented to you may appear to show an unremarkable change in comparison to previous years.
03:01:50
I want to extract and highlight a few facts for you to consider.
03:01:54
In comparing fiscal year 2012 to fiscal year 2013, we have experienced a 15% decrease in noise disturbance calls in the Venable neighborhood.
03:02:07
and a 14% decrease citywide.
03:02:11
We have increased enforcement by 16% citywide and 80% in the Venable neighborhood.
03:02:19
This is a remarkable positive impact for the community and represents a responsive community.
03:02:26
It also reflects hard work and dedication of our patrol officers.
03:02:31
At this point, the Department recommends that we continue with monitoring our process throughout the fall of 2013 into the spring of 2014, at which time we will come back to report to Council on our progress.
03:02:43
Welcome any questions you may have.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
03:02:45
Questions from the staff?
SPEAKER_18
03:02:47
Can you elaborate on what enforcement means?
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
03:02:50
Arrest, summonses.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
03:02:54
Any other questions or comments?
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
03:02:56
I do have another bite of brownie.
03:03:01
The calls for service are huge.
03:03:06
The numbers are really big, yet the warnings and arrests are really small.
03:03:10
So can you sort of give us a little on the ground what's happening?
03:03:13
Well, the calls for service have decreased.
SPEAKER_18
03:03:17
We gave you calendar year.
03:03:19
We also gave you fiscal year so that you could compare 12 months of full data.
03:03:24
They have decreased while the warnings and arrests are small.
03:03:30
I contribute that to the fact that we really did not get this program up and running and efficiently implemented.
03:03:38
until December or January.
03:03:39
So you need to really extract six or seven months of that 12 month to get a good analysis of where we are.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
03:03:46
I mean, do you find when there's a call for noise that you get there and it's either not legitimate or you can't measure it?
SPEAKER_18
03:03:56
We find that a lot when we get calls for service for noise violations that the music has been turned down or it was unfounded.
03:04:07
That's predominantly what we do find.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:04:14
So the calls for service are still above what they were two years ago, but they're below what they were last year for the first half of this year.
03:04:21
Am I seeing correctly?
03:04:23
You are, absolutely.
SPEAKER_18
03:04:24
and the citations are above or below?
03:04:26
The citations are above.
03:04:30
While the numbers, the whole numbers are still relatively small, the percentages are large.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:04:38
And where in this report, because I was looking and had that same question and now I can look at it knowing the answer, but
03:04:45
Where are the actual, or the summonses on this report?
03:04:50
They would be in the arrest.
03:04:51
And where is that?
03:04:53
What page?
SPEAKER_18
03:04:56
So I've got the call for service.
03:04:58
Give me one second.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:04:59
There it is.
03:05:00
I'm sorry.
03:05:00
OK.
03:05:00
It's on our page 168.
03:05:02
I'm not sure what it is in the report itself.
03:05:07
But it's just for this year.
03:05:09
It doesn't give, oh, well, hold on.
03:05:16
It just gives overall, it doesn't give year to year, is that right?
03:05:19
Or is there a year to year?
SPEAKER_18
03:05:22
Oh, I'm sorry.
03:05:22
It's the one with the little colored map on it.
03:05:24
Right, it does give you the calendar year for 2011 and 2012, but it only gives you year to date from January to August, to the time this report was done.
03:05:34
So for 2013.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:05:35
Are you on CPD noise warning citywide?
SPEAKER_18
03:05:38
I'm on CPD noise arrest.
03:05:39
176.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:05:42
176.
03:05:47
There's a lot of information in this report, which I appreciate.
03:05:49
But wading through it just takes a little while.
03:05:51
OK, the other little map.
03:05:53
All right.
03:05:58
So last year, citywide, there was a total of 17 arrests.
03:06:09
And in the first half of this year, there have been two?
SPEAKER_18
03:06:12
That's correct.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
03:06:15
So remind us when someone is arrested.
03:06:17
They get a warning first and then you have to go back.
SPEAKER_18
03:06:21
They could get a warning first.
03:06:24
That is typically what we do is issue a warning, which is why we kind of implemented this whole system so that we'll know who's been warned, what address has been warned.
03:06:36
So there was this whole campaign of community information, putting it out that we're going to be a little bit less tolerant for violations.
03:06:47
But they don't necessarily have to be warned.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
03:06:51
Do you feel like it's working?
SPEAKER_18
03:06:54
I absolutely feel like it's working.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
03:06:57
And the recommendation is that we give you some more time.
SPEAKER_18
03:07:01
Yeah, I think that to give you an intelligent recommendation we need a little bit more time.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:07:08
Okay, just going back to what I had asked my first question to get to, on our page 173, which is maybe three pages before that on your report, Charlottesville Police Department says at the top year to date 2013, police calls for service for noise violations.
03:07:26
That looks like it.
03:07:27
Yes, fiscal year?
03:07:28
Yes.
03:07:30
Well, no.
03:07:31
It's just January, February, March, April, May, June, July, August, and then grand total across the top.
03:07:42
It's year to date, 2013.
03:07:46
Is it this one?
03:07:47
No.
03:07:48
On ours, it looks like that.
03:07:54
Sorry, now that we've gone paperless, it's hard to compare.
03:08:00
That's it.
SPEAKER_18
03:08:02
There was a lot of information.
03:08:03
Yeah.
03:08:04
I'm sorry, what's your question?
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:08:05
So there were 202 calls for service in Venable so far this year.
SPEAKER_18
03:08:12
I still have the right one.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:08:15
There's a little yellow line across it.
03:08:17
It's highlighted.
03:08:17
CP16, Venable, about halfway down the page.
03:08:24
Got it?
03:08:25
So 202 calls for service in Venable so far this year.
03:08:30
That's correct.
03:08:31
And one citation.
SPEAKER_18
03:08:36
That's correct.
03:08:39
Again, let's see.
03:08:43
Now, what you're reading is that you're saying one citation where, I'm sorry, where are you going?
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:08:58
Well, on the page we were on before with the map on it, there was one citation in Venable this year, 2013 so far.
03:09:09
Correct.
03:09:10
OK.
03:09:10
Right.
03:09:11
One other in the city.
03:09:13
One arrest.
03:09:13
One arrest.
03:09:15
So 202 calls in one arrest?
03:09:20
Yes.
03:09:21
OK. And to me, I guess I believe you when you say that you believe that it's working.
03:09:29
And I'm not quite sure how to see that in these data.
03:09:35
Because I see in the months that school is in session, January, February, March, April, May, it just continues to go up and it doesn't go down until the students leave.
03:09:47
And so I don't really see any indication that it's working or that things are getting better for people in the neighborhoods.
SPEAKER_18
03:09:53
Well, the numbers are lower than what they were the previous school year.
03:09:57
And also you have to consider that we've given over 67 warnings.
03:10:02
We may have only made one arrest, but we've given a tremendous amount of warnings.
03:10:07
And out of that 202 calls, that doesn't mean that they were all verified.
03:10:11
I understand.
03:10:12
So there's a large percentage that are not verified or unfounded.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:10:16
or unenforceable because they were causing a problem but not by the time they get there.
Maurice Jones
City Manager
03:10:21
Or it could be for the same call.
03:10:23
Or it wasn't.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
03:10:23
It didn't rise to the level of that.
03:10:26
So if you go back to the same address, you've given a warning and you go back to the same address, do you necessarily arrest them?
03:10:33
Is that part of the ordinance?
SPEAKER_18
03:10:37
Part of our policy is if we do respond to that same address after having been issued a written warning that we issue a summons.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:10:52
One place where you had a verifiable call in the same place twice, out of 202 calls.
SPEAKER_18
03:10:58
That would be correct, but don't get hooked up on the 202.
03:11:04
Like I said, there's a large percentage that is not, you know, a verified noise.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:11:09
But out of 67 warnings, those were all discrete, separate places, except for one.
03:11:13
Yes, right.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
03:11:13
But I heard some concern from the neighbors still that the problem is
03:11:21
Not any better.
03:11:25
We got an email yesterday that they moved out of this neighborhood because things got so bad they decided to sell their house.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
03:11:37
And they did associate it with a particular establishment that had been suddenly kind of expanding its hours and having music.
03:11:46
And we've heard many calls about this one establishment.
03:11:51
I'm not sure if that's something that you've seen an uptick as well in just the past month since school started and since the change in policy with this establishment.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:12:02
With this particular establishment?
03:12:04
Is that your question?
03:12:06
Yeah, the Panda Garden.
SPEAKER_18
03:12:07
Yeah, and I knew which one you were speaking of.
03:12:09
I just was made aware of that last week.
03:12:11
But I think we already have a hold on that.
03:12:13
I know that Jim Torbert's office, ABC agent, and various other people have been in contact with that establishment.
03:12:22
He's extended a personal apology to the complainant that filed a complaint last week.
03:12:27
Very good.
03:12:28
Okay.
03:12:28
So, but that was the first that I had heard of that.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
03:12:31
Other questions or comments?
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:12:37
Sorry to keep belaboring this.
03:12:40
On page 177, which will be three pages past the last one, it's CPD noise warning city-wide.
03:12:51
In 2012, there were 26 warnings.
03:12:57
And in 2013, year to date, there were 16.
SPEAKER_18
03:13:01
Again, that's year to date for 2013, right?
03:13:05
But you also have a full year for 2012.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:13:11
I understand.
03:13:14
So four months more.
SPEAKER_18
03:13:15
When the students are back, I'd imagine that that would probably increase.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:13:21
It just doesn't look like a dramatic increase.
03:13:24
I can see that it's about maybe the same or maybe a little more, but it doesn't look like a lot more warnings than there were in 2012.
SPEAKER_32
03:13:34
But I thought you just said that there were more warnings than there were last year.
SPEAKER_18
03:14:00
If you look at the compare the fiscal year
03:14:05
So you have an entire 12 months?
03:14:08
There would be an increase on that data.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:14:26
I saw that by calls for service, but I didn't see it by morning.
SPEAKER_18
03:14:34
What are the remnants?
SPEAKER_07
03:15:00
There's one that's here as well
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:15:01
But is it by fiscal year?
SPEAKER_18
03:15:08
Well, so the warnings actually, you know, if you're looking at fiscal year and comparing that, you know, there wouldn't have been any for 2012.
03:15:19
Fiscal year 2012, but fiscal year 2013, there was 84 because that's when we implemented it.
03:15:26
This has a little bit of my...
03:15:30
I'm not sure that you were...
03:15:31
presented with that.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:15:34
No.
03:15:34
Okay.
SPEAKER_18
03:15:43
It's not very informative if you're looking at fiscal year 11 and 12 because we hadn't implemented the new procedure.
03:15:52
These are arrests.
03:15:53
There's arrests on top and residential zones.
03:15:56
And warnings on the bottom.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:15:57
17, but in the chart you gave us it said two city-wide.
SPEAKER_27
03:16:03
But that was the months before you started this program.
SPEAKER_18
03:16:12
Were you speaking of arrests or warnings?
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:16:17
The arrests or the citations on the sheet you gave us, you had two in 2013 citywide.
03:16:28
But on here it says 17 in 13 citywide.
03:16:34
So maybe we just have an error of information, in which case that reassures me a little bit.
SPEAKER_18
03:16:39
I can assure you that there's not an error.
03:16:42
Okay, sure.
03:16:46
So what's the difference here?
SPEAKER_27
03:16:48
The difference here is it's from July 1st to June 30th.
03:16:52
So July 1st, 2011.
03:16:56
Yeah.
03:16:57
I think it was from July 1st of last year.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:17:00
Right, before this policy started to January.
SPEAKER_27
03:17:06
I can just speak on the fact that this last fiscal year and then this year there was two.
03:17:15
I mean, if you want to do count.
SPEAKER_11
03:17:18
Talk to the folks at home.
SPEAKER_27
03:17:19
I'm sorry.
03:17:22
If you're looking at it as from fiscal year,
03:17:27
It does have a, there is, that number's correct, and that number's from July 1st to June 30th, which would be the end of our fiscal year, because now we're in fiscal year 14.
03:17:41
But the calendar year is correct.
03:17:44
We do have only two for the calendar year of 13.
03:17:49
It's just a different way that it's presented to you.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:17:51
I understand.
03:17:52
So there were 15 citations
03:17:57
between July 1st of 2012 and January 1st of 2013.
03:18:08
The first half of this was clear?
SPEAKER_27
03:18:10
It would be from July 1st, 2012 to June 30th, 2013.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:18:17
I'm saying 15 of them because in the calendar year 13 there were two.
SPEAKER_27
03:18:21
Yes, that's correct.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:18:24
So before the policy was fully enacted there were 15 arrests but since then there's only been two.
SPEAKER_18
03:18:31
But you're looking at the calendar year.
03:18:33
Yes, the two is for the calendar year of 2013, year to date.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
03:18:44
Yes, I understand.
Maurice Jones
City Manager
03:18:49
I guess one of the questions would be is there does there tend to be more activity in the first part of the school year than there is in the latter part of the school year at least based on this information would indicate that there there was last year and so we won't know the numbers just yet because we're in the first part of the school year now but we'd have a better understanding of that towards the end of this calendar year and we'd be able to make the comparisons between
03:19:15
this current calendar year from July 1 to December 31st and last year in January we'd be able to do that.
SPEAKER_27
03:19:22
That's correct and then you wouldn't have to do the fiscal year because it would be you can just go right to the calendar.
SPEAKER_18
03:19:28
You'd have 12 months data either way.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:19:30
There's a data piece that would really help me a lot to make this kind of decision and I'm willing to defer the decision myself until we get it but if at the next meeting we could get month by month 2011, 2012 and 2013
03:19:45
for arrests, not just for calls, because we have that for calls here, but we don't have it for arrests or citations or arrests or warnings.
SPEAKER_18
03:19:53
Okay, we can do that.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:19:54
Because that, I think, could give us a better handle of what you're saying.
03:19:57
It's not that I disbelieve you, and so that's why I'm not going to belabor it tonight, but I think that would really help us to be able to see kind of in numbers what the changes are.
03:20:06
And I understand that sometimes the calls are from people who've just kind of had it up to here and they're just going to keep calling and it doesn't necessarily reflect more or less noise.
03:20:14
So I do hear.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
03:20:16
Do you not want to wait until the sixth month period?
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
03:20:20
I might, but I don't know until I see that.
03:20:23
It might be useful too to know what kind of information.
03:20:26
Now you provided really great information and we might just need to see it in a slightly different form and I'd be curious to how many repeat calls.
03:20:36
do you have, whether or not they've been cited, you know, is it working, is that working, is that working, and you know, they or may not be.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:20:50
Anecdotally, I think, and just kind of your sense, because you've looked at these numbers a lot, when you say you think it's working, I believe you.
03:20:58
But I think for us to make a decision that we can look at the residents of the neighborhood and say, this is why we made that decision, I can't do that yet.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
03:21:14
And I also really appreciate the work that the students who were here earlier
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:21:34
are doing and that the university is doing to try to work from the other side, the demand side of the noise itself and to really talk to students about being responsible and paying attention to their neighbors.
03:21:45
Because it's often students who are the ones who are the ones affected by noise.
03:21:49
They're trying to study, they can't study because there's noise.
03:21:51
So it's not just old fuddy duddies, it's everybody in the neighborhood.
7. REPORT Crisis Intervention Team Program Update
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:21:55
Good point, good point.
03:21:56
Thank you.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
03:21:58
Next item on the agenda is Crisis Intervention Team program update.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:22:06
Hi.
SPEAKER_28
03:22:48
And there were some other documents that were also, I think, sent late.
03:23:01
One was documenting the success of CIT and one was a one page summary.
03:23:07
Can do.
03:23:09
So, begin?
03:23:13
Can do.
03:23:14
Good evening.
03:23:16
City Council.
03:23:17
My name is Tom Von Himmert.
03:23:19
I work as the CIT coordinator for the Thomas Jefferson Area CIT program.
03:23:25
And thank you for letting me have this time to present information as an update to you about the success of CIT.
03:23:33
And I do respect and understand it's been a long, late evening for you.
03:23:37
So I will try to do this presentation in 10 minutes or less.
03:23:41
So here we go.
03:23:45
One of the first things you need to ask is why CIT and how successful CIT is.
03:23:50
We were established in 2007.
03:23:53
We were the second CIT program in the state behind the New River Valley CIT program.
03:23:59
Since that time, there are now 30 CIT programs throughout the Commonwealth due to the success of CIT.
03:24:06
And if I do note that of those 30 CITs, we have trained and mentored about 20 of those CIT programs.
03:24:13
and their officers and their programs and their projects with that.
03:24:20
CIT is about the relationship of the mental health system and the criminal justice system.
03:24:27
And this is a national problem.
03:24:29
So we need to just take a few seconds to look back on a national level.
03:24:34
There are two lines I want you to look at, please.
03:24:36
One is the green line, which represents the total number of mental health beds that were in the United States.
03:24:41
And the red line is the jail and prison rate in the United States.
03:24:46
In the late 1950s, early 1960s, there were 500,000 mental health beds throughout the United States.
03:24:53
To be honest with you, most of those facilities were pretty deplorable in conditions and lack of rights in facilities and services.
03:25:01
And they were starting to be shut down by the government to hopefully put those services back into the communities.
03:25:07
Unfortunately, as those hospitals were closed down, the money and services were not put towards the communities.
03:25:15
with that and the jail and the prison system and the criminal justice system picked up the tail end because people were ending out on the street with lack of services and when they were de-escalating or acting out, to be honest with you, our jail became our number one mental health institution.
03:25:34
And that is the same thing which is happening on a statewide basis.
03:25:37
If you look at
03:25:38
Western State Hospital, which is our regional state mental health institution over in Stanton.
03:25:43
In the same period, in the 1950s, it had over 3,000 beds.
03:25:48
Today, even though the population has almost doubled, it has less than 250 beds.
03:25:54
In our own backyard, between the city and the county, we have lost over 200 mental health hospital beds.
03:26:03
Just in the last year and a half,
03:26:06
Martha Jefferson Hospital, moving out to Pantops, we lost the other 17 beds.
03:26:12
So within that, it has affected our criminal justice system.
03:26:17
And throughout the states, our jails are at capacity, if not over capacity.
03:26:22
And even though they're open 24-7, 365, they do always have room at the end.
03:26:28
I work for two large regional jails, one of them including our regional jail, the Albemarle Charlottesville Regional Jail.
03:26:36
licensed by the Department of Corrections.
03:26:37
It has a rating capacity of 329 beds.
03:26:41
Its current count today is approximately 425.
03:26:44
And it's running over 130% of its capacity.
03:26:49
We need to note that just two years ago, it was running at over 165% over its rating capacity.
03:26:55
And Colonel Matthews, the superintendent of that jail, noted that one of the major reasons for the decrease in the number of inmates today
03:27:04
is due to the success of what he's seen happening both in the city and the county with CIT.
03:27:12
Looking closer at the current counts of the two jails, if you look closer, working with the medical departments, we've documented that 17 to 18%, about one out of five inmates, has a serious mental illness.
03:27:27
And this is a major factor on costs, whether it is psychological services, medications, or issues that happen within the criminal justice system.
03:27:40
Central Virginia Regional Jail is located in Orange County and it covers five rural jurisdictions.
03:27:48
It covers Green, Madison, Orange, Louisa, and Flovano.
03:27:53
Our CIT program is the largest CIT program in the Commonwealth.
03:27:59
It covers nine jurisdictions, including the University of Virginia.
03:28:03
So I work for two large regional jails and three community services boards.
03:28:09
But that's CBRJ.
03:28:11
Yes, sir.
03:28:13
Okay.
03:28:14
The need for CIT locally, we know that there are 400 to 500 offenders with a mental illness in the Charlottesville Albemarle area.
03:28:23
From the state, we have documented that there are over 3,000 inmates with a mental illness on a national basis.
03:28:31
One of the major concerns is the recidivist rates is over 70% and that's on an annual basis.
03:28:38
Other needs for CIT, incarceration for offenders have exasperated two major problems.
03:28:44
One is the inmate has a history of being mistreated and taken advantage by other inmates.
03:28:50
And two, one of the leading issues about incarcerations for a person with a mental illness is that a person with a mental illness and a person without mental illness being arrested for the exact same crime, the person with mental illness will be arrested.
03:29:04
and charged and incarcerated four to five times longer because of the mental health issues exasperates more problems.
03:29:12
They might act out, hurt another inmate, or even worse, correctional officers.
03:29:16
There's more charges.
03:29:18
There's a longer process in the evaluation process.
03:29:21
From Western State, we know that one out of three residents or patients are being re-arrested, again, within a 12-month period of time.
03:29:32
Region 10, our community services board that covers five jurisdictions around our area, including Charlottesville and Albemarle.
03:29:39
Just since 2005, 2006, they've seen an explosion in the number of mental health evaluations that they've had to conduct within our region.
03:29:49
We've gone through a pretty tough few years with the recession, people losing jobs, homes, we've even had an earthquake.
03:29:57
But their numbers have absolutely grown dramatically.
03:30:04
It is the Wellness Recovery Center that provides... That is exactly right.
03:30:12
Correct.
03:30:12
Good eye.
03:30:16
What is CIT?
03:30:18
The emphasis is it's a pre-jail diversion program.
03:30:22
It is trying to work with somebody before they're arrested, before they have to go into the criminal justice system.
03:30:28
And the emphasis is when it's safe and when it's appropriate.
03:30:32
It's looking at a process addressing the entire system within the mental health and criminal justice system.
03:30:38
From the time somebody's called 911 to the time officers have arrived and whether they take a medical approach or a criminal justice issue.
03:30:47
We've worked with the hospitals, probation parole, the magistrates, the jails, the court systems, and all the other community resources centers that are in our jurisdictions.
03:30:58
It's about responsibility.
03:31:00
We have community members and family members, consumers that are part of our task force.
03:31:04
They are part of our training.
03:31:06
They are part of our crisis review team.
03:31:08
They review and tell us how we can get better, what are critical situations that happen on an individual basis or on a systematic basis that we can try to address.
03:31:19
And to the officers, we go over and over within our 40-hour training.
03:31:23
It's a week-long training that's approved by the Department of Criminal Justice Services.
03:31:28
It's not just for selected officers.
03:31:30
It really is about a mindset, about building dignity, respect, and safety for everybody.
03:31:38
We have a very simple vision, and it is about safety.
03:31:42
Priority number one is safety for the officers.
03:31:44
Two, it's safety for our community.
03:31:47
And three, it's safety for the person in crisis within that order.
03:31:52
Within that, we've documented how well we've done over the last several years.
03:31:59
First part is that we want to make sure that we're reducing officer injuries.
03:32:03
In documenting from 2008 to 2012, working with our 911 centers, with the emergency communication centers, we've documented that there hasn't been a single documented injury
03:32:14
until this past year.
03:32:15
And that's when there was an incident where we had an individual who was trying to commit suicide by swallowing a fistful of syringes into his mouth.
03:32:24
Two officers responded.
03:32:26
They were both CIT officers.
03:32:27
They did a terrific job of de-escalating that situation.
03:32:31
They had the person remove the syringes out of their mouth and said, you're not looking at being arrested.
03:32:35
We're trying to help you and get you to the right services and take you to the hospital to get evaluated.
03:32:40
But the person tried to escape, and the officers had to go hands-on and restrain that person.
03:32:48
And when they did, one of the officers busted their knee.
03:32:52
Unfortunately, that officer just returned to duty after having a knee replacement.
03:32:57
But I think that just stresses some of the daily issues that these officers, the amazing officers, are dealing with people that are in
03:33:07
such pain and such crisis that they go to such extreme measures and maybe impossibly hurting themselves.
03:33:17
We want to reduce time that officers spend on a mental health related call before CIT, just the law enforcement officers, just the police officers themselves were spending on average four to six hours on a mental health, ECO, emergency custody order to have that person be evaluated at UVA.
03:33:36
We now have a memorandum of agreement with the hospital working with UVA police and security where we can do a custody exchange process.
03:33:45
And now, on average, from the time they get the 911 call to the time that they're able to do a custody exchange, it's taking them less than an hour's time.
03:33:53
For sheriff deputies that have to spend time with somebody where they're transporting them to the hospitals across the state, they spend even that much more time with a mental health crisis call.
03:34:10
The national model based on the Memphis model in CIT, you want to have on average 25% of your patrol officers trained in CIT.
03:34:21
The Charlottesville Police Department, under the guidance of Chief Longo, wants 100% of his officers trained, and currently we have approximately 70% of the officers trained through a 40-hour training.
03:34:32
And we have a number of trainings that are scheduled throughout this year.
03:34:39
In the rural jurisdictions, there's 30%.
03:34:42
One of the things that we're very proud of is in our nine jurisdictions we have a hundred percent of all the 911 dispatchers trained in CIT and they have done a tremendous job of working with officers and also we've developed better protocols, procedures, communication policies to make things quicker, faster and safer for everybody.
03:35:03
With that we've trained over a thousand officers throughout our area and throughout Virginia.
03:35:11
One of the main objectives is to keep people with a mental illness out of the criminal justice system when it's safe and when it's appropriate.
03:35:19
And it needs to be noted that just because you have a mental illness doesn't mean that you, what we would say, get out of jail free card.
03:35:26
We hold people accountable for their behavior and try to get them the right resources.
03:35:32
But again, we try to look at what is the best outcome.
03:35:35
Is it either a medical issue or is it more of a criminal issue?
03:35:40
Within that, during the training, basically, an officer has four outcomes universally.
03:35:46
It doesn't matter if it's in Charlottesville, Albemarle, Kalamazoo.
03:35:50
They either can resolve this situation on location, they can voluntarily transport that person somewhere, whether it's to UVA or to a community services board or to a clubhouse.
03:36:00
They can involuntarily transport somebody under an ECO or what we call a TDO.
03:36:06
And the last part is dealing with arrest.
03:36:08
Again, the way we've documented by working with our 911 center is that
03:36:14
If you notice the top two lines, the officers are primarily either resolving these mental health crisis calls either on location or they're voluntarily referring or transporting that person to an appropriate facility.
03:36:28
And the bottom line, if you notice, is the number of arrests.
03:36:32
And over the last four years, the number has steadily decreased over the last four years.
03:36:37
So tremendous success from the officer's perspective and also the support from our community.
03:36:45
One of the major successes that we've had with our CIT, which is bringing what we call a monthly crisis team together.
03:36:54
We have representatives from all these different agencies, from law enforcement, mental health, and the medical systems that come together once a month to look at how we can improve CIT and how we can work with somebody that's individually in crisis.
03:37:09
The bottom line is that all these agencies, all these different services, we're all working with the same people.
03:37:15
But before CIT, nobody was communicating together.
03:37:18
There was a lot of, to be honest with you, a lot of anger, distrust, misunderstandings between the different agencies.
03:37:26
And for the first time, we have brought that relationship and brought that well together.
03:37:32
And so within that, we bring support, we bring accountability, and we bring better outcomes for everybody.
03:37:41
from some major leaders in our communities, from law enforcement, from Chief Longo, a quote from him after he went through the 40 hour CIT training.
03:37:53
And I do note that Chief Longo was the very first police chief in Virginia to go through CIT.
03:38:01
from Colonel Matthews at ACRJ.
03:38:05
He feels like he's the biggest benefactor of the CIT program.
03:38:09
Again, if you look at the numbers that have been reduced over time, he's seen a tremendous success within that, and also the number of serious incidences that are occurring at ACRJ have also dramatically been reduced also.
03:38:22
From our community, from Region 10, there's the building of that mutual respect and collaboration.
03:38:31
and NAMI, which are family members from the National Alliance on Mental Illness, our local chapter, also works closely with us with our task force and our review teams and our trainings have also have a lot of praise for our program.
03:38:50
I'll be glad to answer any questions, concerns or suggestions that you might have for us to continue the success of our CIT program.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
03:38:59
You might have said this in the beginning.
03:39:01
How do you get your funding?
SPEAKER_28
03:39:03
Primarily, for the first four years, it was through a large DCJS burn grant.
03:39:08
At this point, I'm at the end of a second burn grant which expires in June of 2014.
03:39:16
I just received documentation that the Department of Behavioral Health Disability Services will be providing $75,000 a year on a state budget.
03:39:29
for us.
03:39:29
We also just received another $30,000 from the same agency to mentor other programs.
03:39:38
And the last part is that I just submitted a grant to the Attorney General's office and received $111,000 that will provide equipment and training for our officers too.
03:39:51
but primarily to keep myself funded in the CIT program going through the state line item budget.
03:40:01
That should be enough to keep our training going.
SPEAKER_30
03:40:07
Do you need any assistance in advocating for more state support?
03:40:13
I mean we're putting together our legislative packet.
03:40:18
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_28
03:40:20
The answer would be yes.
03:40:25
And I would be glad to follow up with more of a detailed document to you about how we could
03:40:34
Use your support, your leverage, your power, your advocacy.
03:40:39
So, thank you.
03:40:40
The answer is yes.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
03:40:41
I wanted to say that it's an excellent program.
03:40:44
It seems to be working.
03:40:46
And the success in that way.
SPEAKER_28
03:40:50
Thank you.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
03:40:50
Have you trained our ambassadors?
SPEAKER_28
03:40:52
Yes, we have.
03:40:54
We provide a 20-hour training for the EVA security officers.
03:40:58
And the downtown ambassadors also went through the exact same training.
03:41:03
And the feedback from the downtown ambassadors said it was some of the best training they've ever received.
03:41:09
And some of them had been previous law enforcement officers.
03:41:12
So they were thrilled to have it.
03:41:15
And we've been following up with doing other trainings for
03:41:19
both mental health and for criminal justice agencies.
03:41:23
But it was, I think, a tremendous success having the downtown ambassadors.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
03:41:28
I noticed that you work with Virginia Wounded Warrior.
03:41:31
Do you see a lot of vets?
SPEAKER_28
03:41:33
Yes.
03:41:34
We work directly with Ben Shaw, who's been a terrific advocate.
03:41:38
He's part of our training and the crisis review team meeting.
03:41:41
And yes, throughout the state, unfortunately, we're seeing an uptick in the number of combat vets coming back, getting, unfortunately, involved with arrest or with having to deal with police officers.
03:41:59
And sadly, but true.
03:42:00
Yes, sir.
03:42:00
Yes.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
03:42:01
Other questions or comments?
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:42:03
It was kind of serendipitous.
03:42:06
I didn't know that you were giving this report a couple of weeks ago, but several different people who are on the receiving end of the services that officers trained in CIT are giving have just mentioned in conversation to me recently that they can tell who's had training and who hasn't, and that they really appreciate the difference, and that it makes a huge difference when you're in crisis and you're not maybe controlling your own behavior.
03:42:30
that the person who's there to deal with your behavior isn't escalating it but is helping you de-escalate it so kudos for that and also I'll say that as the jail board chair when I first went onto the jail board they were still talking about the need to possibly set aside money from localities, millions and millions of dollars to build a new part of the jail, a new wing on the jail because they were almost up to 600 people
03:43:00
between the CIT and some of the other evidence-based practices that have gone into practice in Charlottesville and Albemarle County, and the crossings, which has been another huge dropper of the sort of frequent flyer program of folks who go to jail.
03:43:17
I just can't say enough about how this program is not just saving us money on these individual arrests, but on the kind of infrastructure that we're not having to look at anymore.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
03:43:28
Any questions?
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
03:43:29
Thank you very much.
03:43:30
And just the 70% of our city police have been trained in this?
SPEAKER_28
03:43:36
Yes.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
03:43:37
And that on average it's usually 25 to 30% of a police department in the state has that kind of training?
SPEAKER_28
03:43:46
Based on what we call the Memphis model of CIT, where CIT was first originated, the philosophy was to have 25%, but from the success and the feedback from the chief and the other command staff, they said they wanted to have up to 100% of their officers trained in CIT.
03:44:06
Excellent.
03:44:07
And to hopefully have continual training with it.
SPEAKER_11
03:44:10
Wonderful.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
03:44:11
Okay.
SPEAKER_11
03:44:11
Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_28
03:44:12
Thank you.
8. RESOLUTION* 1335 Carlton Avenue (PACE Center) Special Use Permit (SUP) (1st of 1 reading)
SPEAKER_28
03:44:13
Thank you, sir.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
03:44:14
Next item on the agenda is the resolution 1335 Carlton Avenue Page Center, a special use permit for the site Good evening all, this is a special use permit
SPEAKER_02
03:44:32
at 1335 Carlton Avenue.
03:44:34
It's for residential density of up to 21 dwelling units per acre.
03:44:38
If you remember in May, at your May meeting, you heard this item.
03:44:44
and approved the special use permit basically on Parcel A and B which is for 32 of those units.
03:44:51
This is for Parcel C which you deferred action on that and gave the applicant some feedback in order for them to take that and redesign their site and their package to a unit.
03:45:02
The applicant has since redesigned the site to incorporate more green space, plazas, entrances on Carlton, balconies that reduce the parking and provided more pedestrian connections within the site and across walk to the bus stop which is across Carlton.
03:45:19
I'll let them get into the particulars of their site design as they are here to present to you all.
03:45:28
They took some of the pointers from the conversation and the nine conditions you all have.
03:45:36
Staff recommends approval of the Special Use Permit, which would basically extend the Special Use Permit onto Parcel C. That would allow the additional 70 units in the 102 on the site.
03:45:50
In general, I believe the applicant has incorporated a lot of the comments both through the Planning Commission
03:45:56
in the City Council.
03:45:57
There are two items that came up this week in regards to the special use permit.
03:46:01
Mr. Annemarie had some recommendations for language to make the the exterior lighting condition
03:46:12
Although I would suggest that you actually include the language which would be something like
03:46:28
that luminaires should be used and should be equipped with devices for redirecting lights such as shields, visors, or hood to eliminate luminaire glare and visibility from neighborhood properties.
03:46:39
I think that's more effective than actually referencing
03:46:43
I believe the 10th edition of the IES lighting handbook because that's a whole handbook and I think it's more effective to say what do you specifically want which I interpret as hoods, shields, and visors so these lights will not reflect glare onto neighboring properties.
03:46:59
That is just more specific than referencing the guide which is a whole handbook but referencing particular points in that guide.
03:47:08
which will be helpful for staff and anybody else who's going to come interpret this particular resolution and may not have the benefit of the email interactions.
03:47:19
So with that, and then there was also a comment about traffic on Franklin Street.
03:47:25
From the initial planning commission, they discussed that and they actually
03:47:31
I made a recommendation and suggestion to you all, City Council, which was included in your previous memo in May, for you all to take up a study of traffic and circulation patterns in that area of the neighborhood and to look at one way, Franklin Street in particular,
03:47:51
and they thought that those were important issues but not necessarily connected to this particular application that they wanted you to take up.
03:47:59
So I just wanted to address that traffic was actually looked at and addressed and no conditions were proposed that would really address the amount of traffic.
03:48:11
Most traffic improvements address the flow of traffic but the number of traffic minus getting people to
03:48:19
Are there any questions from staff before we ask the applicant to come forward?
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
03:48:40
I just want to make sure that the building, are the uses all the same?
SPEAKER_02
03:48:47
Yes.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
03:48:48
So there hasn't been a switch from any of the buildings, some becoming, I know building A I guess was originally for seniors, has that been changed at all?
SPEAKER_02
03:49:01
Not that I know of.
03:49:02
None of the program of the particular building is more of the site design.
03:49:07
They're looking for you all to give them guidance on whether this is basically reasonable and appropriate for residential use in the mix of those buildings and where things are particularly going seem to be more in flux once they know that a residential use is reasonable and appropriate.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
03:49:27
Does density for residential use apply?
SPEAKER_02
03:49:30
Right.
03:49:31
So what you all should be addressing first is whether residential density of up to 21 dwelling units per acre is reasonable and appropriate on this site.
03:49:40
Two, whether what the applicant has proposed, both their design and their buildings and layout of the site, et cetera, is reasonable and appropriate.
03:49:49
So you have a number of options.
03:49:51
You can
03:49:51
approve with the conditions that were previously said.
03:49:55
You can approve with more conditions or you can deny.
03:49:58
But their central question is whether this density is reasonable and appropriate.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:50:03
And whether residential use is reasonable and appropriate.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
03:50:06
Right.
03:50:07
But this is independent of what we did before because we passed an SUP for A and B.
03:50:14
Right.
SPEAKER_02
03:50:15
It's not necessarily independent.
03:50:16
So if you approve this tonight, all the conditions, because their proposal is for the entire site.
03:50:22
You decided to elect to approve a portion of that site, but their proposal was always for an SUP for the entire site.
03:50:29
As the density for 21 dwelling units per acre and the number of units they have is about 4.5 or 4.8 acres, I forget, almost 5 acres they have.
03:50:40
It's for the whole site.
03:50:41
and so if you were to extend this you would be allowing obviously that extra density but it's generally for the, they want it for the whole site.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
03:50:49
So do they need the A and B in order to get 21 acres for, so I mean could we look at it independently or is this, do they need to amend what we did before in order to get the density?
SPEAKER_02
03:51:03
Well if they went forward with their plan they could only do what was on parcel A but that was only because
03:51:10
that's all that you decided to act on.
03:51:12
Their whole proposal was really for the whole site to incorporate that.
03:51:15
So if you decided to, this would be amending what you already have when all those conditions would come over and it would go over the whole site if that makes sense.
03:51:24
But if you decided to deny this portion of it, the portion that you elected to approve would still stay in this.
03:51:32
That's already been approved and is a resolution.
03:51:34
So this would just be extending that and all those conditions
03:51:37
over the rest of the site, which is part of the original proposal.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
03:51:41
And when we approved A and B, it was with Java's residential unit.
03:51:47
If Java is no longer going to build that residential unit, what happens?
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
03:51:51
The unit approves the type of unit of time.
03:51:53
You only approve density.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
03:51:55
No, but what happens to it if Java pulls out?
SPEAKER_02
03:52:00
They still have to meet the conditions, which one of them was 30% of the units would be affordable housing, but that was really for the site.
03:52:09
So they would basically have to build what was on their site plan or disregard the special use permit in the site plan and start from scratch.
03:52:16
But if they want to build anything, they have to build what they have brought and meet those conditions.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
03:52:20
So they could build the same thing, just not for disabled seniors.
SPEAKER_02
03:52:24
Well, I'm not sure who they would build them for if that pulled out, but they would be building the same building from my perspective and meeting those conditions.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
03:52:31
I think this is an important point.
03:52:33
What if Java pulls out?
03:52:35
So we need to be aware that what we are proving
03:52:40
particularly if we're approving something thinking, oh, disabled seniors will be here and then disabled seniors aren't there, then would we have approved?
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
03:52:51
You're not approving disabled seniors, you're approving units and density.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
03:52:58
Right, right.
03:53:00
I just wanted to make that clear because, you know, there's
SPEAKER_02
03:53:04
Well, there's already, maybe this doesn't hit to your particular point, but one of the conditions was whether it's for A and B, which is what you previously proved, that 30% would be affordable housing.
03:53:18
So that condition would stand
03:53:20
because that's locked with the property unless they didn't want to do this and sort of disregard their special use permit.
03:53:27
They would have to start from scratch.
03:53:28
But even if it was on A and B, they would have to comply with that because that's the current conditions even if they don't incorporate C. But like I said, their initial plan was always to
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
03:53:41
This is
03:53:59
30% of the entire site or is it just 30% of two thirds of the site?
SPEAKER_02
03:54:05
Right, it's 30% of the entire site.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
03:54:08
And it doesn't matter where that affordable housing is?
SPEAKER_02
03:54:11
Right, because that wasn't designated as a condition.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
03:54:15
The location was not, okay.
SPEAKER_02
03:54:16
Right, just that it would be spread over the site.
SPEAKER_32
03:54:31
Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, I'm Steve Blaine here representing the applicant.
03:54:35
I'm really going to turn it over to Katie Harrigan, who's the project architect, but while she's coming down here, to answer some of the questions in terms of the density, it would seem you've already approved this density in this area by approving parcel A so that 21 units per acre would be appropriate.
03:54:58
Secondly, in terms of who's going to build the site, fortunately in zoning we determine uses, we don't determine personalities or who's involved.
03:55:08
That's my understanding that Java still has an interest in doing senior housing and we hope that they're going to be a participant but your decision is based upon zoning rules and regulations, of course.
03:55:22
and in terms of whether housing is appropriate, the zoning ordinance already says housing is appropriate with conditions.
03:55:28
That's why we have a SUP process.
03:55:31
So I think the applicant appears to be following the same rules that they did in the previous application and with that I'll turn it over to Katie and she wants to address your specific design concerns.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
03:55:45
Can I ask a clarifying question, though?
03:55:48
Is Java going to build that facility on parcelization?
SPEAKER_32
03:55:52
Well, Java would have to obtain financing and credits, so for us to say in a zoning application who's going to finish the project is probably- I don't think we can decide whether Java- we can't even make a decision with Java.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
03:56:05
We need to make a decision just
03:56:07
to my point.
03:56:11
We don't look at the color of the school tie, we just approve the sewing based on the... That remains knowledge that I'm on Java board, I don't get paid, so don't even close your interest.
Jim Tolbert
Director of Neighborhood Development Services
03:56:25
Thank you.
SPEAKER_14
03:56:27
Good evening, Mayor, members of the City Council, Katie Harrigan with Walter Parks Architect.
03:56:33
And I'm here to talk about just the way that we have caved with the design or have attempted to cater the design to the conditions of the zoning.
03:56:42
Mr. Emery had requested an updated site section, and I apologize we didn't give that to you in your original packet, but we have some copies here to hand out.
03:56:55
Just to help clarify how the height of the building relates to the surrounding landscape.
03:57:01
Just to be clear, we're not exceeding four stories, which stays under the 50-foot requirement.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
03:57:11
Nice to know you have a role in life, right?
SPEAKER_14
03:57:23
One of the conditions was the connectivity of the buildings to Carlton Avenue and as I understand it, incorporating more patios and a direct connection between the unit entries along Carlton Avenue and the sidewalk that we are proposing to build along the entire length of the property on Carlton Avenue.
03:57:46
was a way to address that issue.
03:57:50
So you'll see the items in the lighter shade of blue, I'm sorry if it's a little bit small for you to see, are exterior porches and we also have an elevation here.
03:58:04
This one might need your help too.
03:58:13
So this is apartment building C1, which is an orange on your site here.
03:58:19
So we have entrances from each apartment that's on the ground level.
03:58:24
We've created a somewhat enclosed patio, but also that we wanted to be able to connect to the street as well.
03:58:32
So there's a little bit of privacy, but also engaging the sidewalk.
03:58:43
Another one of the issues was the interconnectivity of the site.
03:58:49
And so we've attempted to do that in multiple ways.
03:58:53
Connecting building A to building B, as you might recall, is a little bit of an issue because of the grade.
03:58:59
But what we found is if we took the sidewalk further north, we were able to eliminate the number of steps.
03:59:06
And also what we tried to do there is incorporate more landscaping features
03:59:12
to bring that connection between A and B through a nicer space.
03:59:21
As you can see in the grayish color, we've incorporated a lot of sidewalks through the site to connect A to B, B to C, C to C2, and then also to connect these sidewalks to a public plaza that would be kind of the,
03:59:43
the way to connect the site to the street and the way to incorporate the public into the site.
03:59:51
We have some more interior private spaces that incorporate open space and then another request was to maintain the trees that are over six caliber on the eastern portion of the site which we've done.
04:00:06
We've added some buffering between the buildings and the railroad tracks.
04:00:13
And we've also tried to take the parking to the railroad track side as well to increase the distance between the buildings and the railroad.
SPEAKER_16
04:00:23
I was going to say use the higher ground for parking.
SPEAKER_14
04:00:25
Use the higher ground for parking.
04:00:27
There's not only a significant grade change between this portion of the site and this portion, but also between the railroad tracks and Carlton.
04:00:36
So by locating the buildings closer to Carlton Avenue, we were able to keep them lower and keep the site distance from surrounding neighborhoods a little bit lower.
04:00:49
Just a few other features.
04:00:51
If you've been by the site, there's some existing concrete silos on the site.
04:00:58
We want to incorporate those into stormwater collection features, also in addition to meeting the city's stormwater requirements.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
04:01:09
You're going to leave them there?
SPEAKER_14
04:01:10
We're going to leave one of them there.
SPEAKER_32
04:01:18
Is this rental or homeowner rental?
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
04:01:28
And where are the exterior lights again particularly with the parking lots and then on the street are there like real street lamps and then is there a what kind of a lighting is then in the back parking lot?
SPEAKER_14
04:01:44
We haven't addressed where lighting is or what specific lights that we would use and we welcome any comments.
04:01:55
This was more conceptual.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
04:01:57
Yeah, I mean the reason why I ask is I think you
04:01:59
You'll be well aware that the residences around that area would be affected by the lighting of a parking lot.
04:02:08
And it's higher ground so you certainly don't want to have high glare, tall lamps.
SPEAKER_16
04:02:18
I think it was furthered with the proposal today and we accept all of that.
04:02:23
So we understand that that is eliminating visibility from neighboring properties.
04:02:28
As we move forward into the more detailed parts of the design, specifically in the secondary site reviews that, you know, subsequently followed us, those will be some critical features if we get into the specs of those.
SPEAKER_14
04:02:38
All right, and then if you look at the site section as well, I think it might address.
04:02:47
And although we're saying higher ground, the building is really in between the parking and Carlson Avenue.
04:02:56
And then the railroad track is much higher than the parking lot.
04:02:59
This is building C1.
04:03:02
Same thing applies for building C2, whereas the areas that we're trying to light
04:03:06
We can use the building as a shield between the parking and Carlton Avenue and then we can use the railroad track as a shield between the parking and the other developments that are on the other side of the railroad track.
SPEAKER_32
04:03:21
And I think we can, and if you wish, make it, we can boost this condition, the standard condition is what's called full cutoff.
04:03:28
I think there are products that exist that actually can direct the light inward.
04:03:33
And if you'd like to amplify on the standard condition, we're amenable to that as well.
04:03:38
And as you know, these are all site plan specific.
04:03:41
You know, you're going to want to look at it in final design at the site plan stage.
04:03:45
But if you want comfort on that, we could
04:03:49
I think you've done a great job.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
04:03:58
You've really come a long way.
04:04:00
I'm being very open and honest about this.
04:04:04
I think the way you've oriented the buildings, they are now facing the street, kind of the chain of open space.
04:04:15
that's connected both between themselves and in the back, but that that street could actually come alive as a public space depending on what happens across the other side of the street over time.
04:04:28
But I think you're setting a really good pattern for public street design.
04:04:33
And that wasn't at all evident in the early designs.
04:04:37
So I just want to say thank you for coming this far with some really good moves.
04:04:44
that show an understanding of a good urban form.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
04:05:00
My concern, I hold on to my concern that it
04:05:07
you say it's going to have at least 30% affordable in a community that, right across the street from a rather large community, that's basically 100% poverty.
04:05:17
And that the impact that this could have, probably would have, on the school, the local school, which is more than 80% poverty, is dramatic.
04:05:31
And, you know, this seems to me it conflicts with everything we just
04:05:36
reported to value in the comprehensive plan of deconcentrating poverty.
04:05:42
This is a very high poverty area, has historically been so, and to put yet more rental high and
04:05:54
multi-story rental that of people of low wealth in a community in a part of the world.
04:06:02
It just conflicts with everything we know about how to uplift.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
04:06:07
We're talking about 30% affordable and 100%.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
04:06:10
And I think one thing that
04:06:12
certainly the intent at this point and I hope that it is true that these will be senior apartments I think also goes to one of our commitments in the comprehensive plan of trying to locate residences near services and if the services that seniors are going to need are right here it's going to keep people out of cars, it's going to keep people from crossing town to get services as well as increase quality of life and that is
04:06:42
That's a huge piece.
04:06:43
I know it's not part of the process in a way, but for my own comfort with this, that's a huge piece of that, why I would support that.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
04:06:52
Java already, we did for Java last time, give
04:06:59
short notice the SUP and now Java's not building that site.
04:07:04
I don't think, I worry that we're going to do something we'd not ordinarily do or that conflicts with our overall goals because we think we're doing it for Java.
04:07:15
And there's no guarantee that Java is going to even be on this site.
SPEAKER_30
04:07:21
So Ms. Walden, is there any way to address this concern?
04:07:25
I think it's a very legitimate concern.
04:07:28
or are we strictly limited to considerations of density?
SPEAKER_02
04:07:33
I think that the question on the table is whether density up to 21 dwelling units per acre is reasonable and appropriate on the site.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
04:07:41
Can we say if it's for primarily senior housing or can't we say that?
SPEAKER_02
04:07:45
I think that you could but if the applicant needs to change something then that would basically prohibit that or
04:07:51
I'm not sure what the applicant thinks about that or what Mr. Brown thinks about that, but I think that the question on the table is whether this density is reasonable and appropriate.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
04:08:02
And this percentage of poverty.
Craig Brown
City Attorney
04:08:04
If this might answer Councilman Norris' question, but the special use permit goes with the land.
04:08:10
It's not tied to any particular
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
04:08:13
Can it have a condition that says say at least 50% senior housing, at least 30% affordable?
Craig Brown
City Attorney
04:08:23
The condition, as you know, a special use is a permitted use but it's not a permitted use by right, it's a use that you have to approve and
04:08:33
with that approval you have the authority to impose conditions.
04:08:39
Those conditions have to be reasonable and as a general rule they mitigate the impact that a particular development has particularly on surrounding properties.
04:08:50
So I think you would need to tie your conditions to any adverse impact that you anticipate from this.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
04:08:58
And I would argue that having it be either
04:09:02
Half or predominantly senior housing would mitigate the impact on traffic and also mitigate the impact on the schools.
Craig Brown
City Attorney
04:09:09
Yeah, I think Smith mentioned the schools issue.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
04:09:13
Do we know what the impact on traffic is?
04:09:15
What if there's no senior housing here?
SPEAKER_02
04:09:18
The traffic impact analysis, which is in the staff report, included a range.
04:09:25
So there was a range of traffic based on whether it was all senior housing or the range from senior housing to market rate.
04:09:34
So that was included in the analysis.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
04:09:38
I know that you all were sitting here for the conversation too with the Rivanna Water and Sewer Authority and you know this is directly across from the wastewater treatment plant so just that whole it was interesting to sit through the conversation about smells knowing that this low you know low-income
04:10:00
high density rental property.
04:10:02
This is what we do.
04:10:04
We put that kind of housing in places that are less desirable.
04:10:10
We just had a planning commission joint session talking about Market Street and how the whole conversation was different because that's right next to North Downtown.
04:10:21
And this is what we do.
04:10:23
We do it over and over and over again.
04:10:25
We just reframe it.
04:10:27
It's the same stuff we've done for decades.
SPEAKER_02
04:10:31
Two things I want to talk about with the conditions is perhaps you should have to ask the applicant if they could reasonably do what you are proposing, because if they can, it's a new point.
04:10:42
And then also just think about if this site were sold, it goes with the land and not the owner.
04:10:47
And so a future applicant would also have to fulfill these conditions.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
04:10:52
Those are just things to do.
04:10:56
The right goes to property, in other words, the job is developed.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
04:11:00
As do the conditions.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
04:11:02
Right.
04:11:02
Yes.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
04:11:03
And can we diminish the percentage of affordable housing?
SPEAKER_02
04:11:07
It was a condition that you proposed so you could, if you thought 30% was too high.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
04:11:13
So if we reduce it to 15%, which is our goal city-wide.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
04:11:19
Yeah, it's our goal city-wide, but we're not there, so it doesn't do anything toward getting toward our goal.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
04:11:23
Smith was saying that the overall neighborhood has got a larger percentage of affordable housing already in it, but then
04:11:31
but the project itself is setting a pattern of mixed income.
SPEAKER_02
04:11:35
Well it's majority, not low income, it's 70% others so I think that there's some balance.
04:11:41
But you can decrease the required number of units.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
04:11:44
I was just offering that as a way that my Ms. Smith could get her hand around this project.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
04:11:51
You're talking about 16 units of affordable units out of 102.
04:11:55
I'm not sure a project can be done just for 16 units personally.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
04:11:58
Who's gonna live here?
04:12:00
I mean, do you have a market?
04:12:02
Do you have a target market?
04:12:08
It's not walkable.
04:12:09
I mean, it's not within reasonable walking distance to downtown.
04:12:15
Maybe, I guess, up to Carleton, if you're willing to climb the hill, but it doesn't have any of those qualities that we talk about workforce wanting.
SPEAKER_32
04:12:28
The applicant would be amenable to reducing the required affordable housing.
04:12:37
If the concern is that the neighborhood is uniformly low income, we're seeking to make it more of a mixed income neighborhood.
04:12:45
I think that's what you're trying to achieve.
04:12:48
I don't know any discretionary zoning for residential that you've passed where you haven't imposed some affordable housing limit.
04:12:56
and so we would certainly be amenable to the standard 15%.
04:13:00
This was a condition that you imposed on the first phase so we were willing to live with it throughout.
04:13:07
The other thing, just in the realm of unintended consequences, if you restrict it to senior housing, we don't think you can do that, we would urge you not to do that.
04:13:17
It limits other programs, for example, this can qualify for tax credits to support disabled.
04:13:24
individuals, which you couldn't have if you would preclude that.
04:13:28
You can't.
04:13:30
That's right.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
04:13:31
That would be spot on.
SPEAKER_32
04:13:36
That's a project funding requirement.
04:13:41
Rick Gregory, this was my law class.
04:13:48
It was good to see him move from the last row up to the first row.
04:13:52
Never did in three years.
SPEAKER_09
04:13:53
It takes a while for me to get up my courage for that.
04:13:55
But my name is Rick Gregory and I am a principal in Fountainhead Development who is the developer and the owner of this site.
04:14:04
We are the developers who have a relationship.
04:14:07
I mean, there's a lot of conversation about Java.
04:14:10
Java is not the only party involved in this.
04:14:12
It's University of Virginia Medical Hospital Association.
04:14:16
It's also Riverside Hospital.
04:14:18
We have completed five
04:14:21
different adult daycare facilities with Riverside Hospital.
04:14:27
We are their provider, their landlord, and we work with them.
04:14:30
We've also provided a number of housing projects that work hand in glove with the adult daycare center.
04:14:39
and the particular program that we were aiming the first phase of the residential part of this project is for the Persons with Disability Tax Credit Program.
04:14:50
Now with the Persons with Disability Tax Credit Program, the way it works is that there's a set aside for low income tax credits if you agree that at least 51% of your residents have a disability.
04:15:06
The other 49 can be market, can be whatever.
04:15:11
But you cannot age discriminate in that program.
04:15:15
This is the program we always use in connection with pay centers because what it does is that if the pay center can keep a person
04:15:26
in an apartment rather than sending them to a nursing home, then it makes the program much more affordable, much more economic, and improves that person's quality of life.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
04:15:38
I'd be comfortable with 51%.
04:15:41
People with Disabilities, I think that that kind of covers a lot of, some of the concerns that we have, especially my concern about having people close to services.
SPEAKER_09
04:15:48
I'm not suggesting that we do that for the entire 100 units, but calls to, I mean that would be a large number of persons.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
04:15:56
You're talking about one building.
SPEAKER_09
04:15:58
I'm talking about right now, the right number that we see is about 40 units, about a building that has essentially 40 units or in this case we were looking at the 32 and the reason we were using that site is that's the site we actually had a contract for that we actually owned.
04:16:14
We have an option on this other site.
04:16:18
So to me the
04:16:21
That's what we're trying to do.
04:16:22
That's what I have confidence we'll do.
04:16:25
We'll work out an agreement with, if not Java, with Riverside Hospital, which is a huge, the largest nonprofit in Virginia.
04:16:37
And so to me the way to do it is the issue is density.
04:16:45
If you're uncomfortable with the low-income
04:16:51
Gold that you had established for us, that's fine.
04:16:54
I mean, we agreed to it because we can.
04:16:58
And if you want it to be less, that's fine, fine too.
04:17:02
but I just can't mix disability and age limitations.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
04:17:07
What does a partnership with Riverside mean?
SPEAKER_09
04:17:11
What that means, ma'am, is that the PACE, Riverside, Java, and the University of Virginia Medical System have set up a company that runs the PACE Center.
04:17:25
So it's a partnership.
04:17:26
So they're a partner in the PACE Center.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
04:17:28
So who will this serve geographically?
04:17:33
I think another question we have to ask is does this further our solution?
SPEAKER_09
04:17:43
I think you'll find that you already have enough
04:17:47
people living in Charlottesville to fill this center plus lots more.
04:17:52
I would be willing to bet you that there is a huge amount of demand for this type of housing.
04:17:59
That's what we've found everywhere that we've been.
04:18:01
We have never had a vacancy in any of our units of persons with disabilities.
04:18:06
There's a long, long waiting list and I think it's a service
04:18:10
that most communities want us to bring and most people welcome us for both of ours.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
04:18:17
So do you have your disability for your 30% in one building versus, because there's two buildings on this parcel C and then I guess there might be another building on A now.
04:18:31
You're planning on building on A?
SPEAKER_09
04:18:33
Yes ma'am.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
04:18:34
I don't know.
04:18:36
I mean, do you segregate by year?
SPEAKER_09
04:18:39
Well, what we have done in the other projects is that when you go and see our project, for example in Richmond, we have a 200 unit project that is totally mixed income.
04:18:52
What I call it, it's a socially green project.
04:18:55
We have 100 market rate units.
04:18:59
We have 41
04:19:03
Low income, which by the way, that's a misnomer.
04:19:07
It's affordable housing.
04:19:09
People can make up to $45,000 and higher and still qualify to live in these apartments.
04:19:16
And the only difference is that the rent, we have rent limitations.
04:19:20
So just as a general rule, the rent is about 30% less than market, but the way we build them
04:19:27
because we get tax credits, we build them exactly alike.
04:19:31
If you went through one of our apartments here and went there, you would not see a difference in any of the services except for perhaps the universal design.
04:19:41
So I'm not going to promise you or tell you where I put them.
04:19:47
I think that diversity is the best way to do it.
04:19:50
And just like you've said not to have concentrations of poverty, that certainly isn't our goal.
04:19:55
Our goal is to have a green diversity.
04:19:59
In other words, in terms of having mixed uses, mixed rent, and I think that it works.
04:20:07
It's worked well in our other communities.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
04:20:09
Are there other questions from the applicant?
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
04:20:10
Thank you.
04:20:11
I would just say that the 30% affordability, I think, is not an inappropriate thing on this site.
04:20:17
And I think that, especially if you're specifically targeting people with disabilities, a lot of people with disabilities
04:20:24
you know are going to fall but below that $45,000 certainly and I don't think it's going to become an issue.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
04:20:31
So you have a motion?
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
04:20:32
Yeah, I'll make a motion that we approve this with the lighting language that I do have a question about the traffic study.
Kathy Galvin
Member, City Council
04:20:41
I understand there was a traffic analysis done on Carlton Road
04:20:48
But I would like to press forward with the city doing much more of a comprehensive traffic analysis of this area.
04:20:57
It's separate, but I don't want to lose sight of it because the public has raised this question many, many times.
04:21:04
And every project that comes and goes, we don't ever settle on saying that we will do an analysis of the region.
04:21:11
So I just want to get some sense from the council.
04:21:14
Are we in support of that idea?
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
04:21:18
I would agree with that.
Dede Smith
Member, City Council
04:21:24
I still find it shocking that the level or lack thereof of analysis of this because of where it is.
04:21:43
and interest family, the meetings and meetings we go over other projects and...
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
04:21:51
So you're putting those three conditions, nine conditions in your...
04:21:55
Yes.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
04:21:55
Plus the new language on the language.
Craig Brown
City Attorney
04:21:58
Mr. Mayor, if I could ask for clarification, were you moved the language suggested by Ms. Walgdon for the language?
04:22:05
Exactly.
04:22:05
Okay, thank you.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
04:22:06
About the visibility from neighboring places, yeah.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
04:22:10
Okay, any second to the motion?
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
04:22:11
I second.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
04:22:13
discussion.
04:22:15
Thank you.
Kristin Szakos
Vice Mayor, City Council
04:22:26
And I will say that as a parent of a child with a disability, I appreciate the effort to create housing.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
04:22:33
Here is the time for public comments.
04:22:39
It's getting a little late, but we'd like to have some time for public comments.
MATTERS BY THE PUBLIC
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
04:22:42
We've been waiting here, people.
04:22:44
So if you'd like to speak on any topic, please come forward and take three minutes.
04:22:52
What's your name and address?
SPEAKER_06
04:22:53
Are you guys ready?
SPEAKER_08
04:22:55
Jim Routsville, 113 Monticello Road.
04:23:00
I just wanted to revisit the issues with the Belmont Bridge and offer that
04:23:17
I can perhaps be of some assistance.
04:23:20
I've been working on this project for two years and almost know where every nut and bolt and dimension of everything, which is kind of scary.
04:23:31
So I think to Dede's point about the at-grade crossing, my conversations with Claude Morris at Buckingham was that
04:23:48
There's a difference between a rail yard and a railroad track and the at-grade crossings that we're offering up as examples of which I believe there are five crossings within the city limits.
04:24:04
That's easier to swap back and forth than it is to move through an active rail yard.
04:24:11
So there's operations going on with Buckingham and they're moving equipment around constantly so I understand why they're
04:24:20
hesitant to say the least about doing anything that's at grade.
04:24:25
I don't agree with that.
04:24:26
I think we need the at grade thing.
04:24:28
I'm all there regardless of whether you do an underpass or an overpass.
04:24:33
And also to help you guys with the enhanced design.
04:24:40
Pete and I did do complete schematics for both the underpass and the bridge version.
04:24:49
So this enhanced bridge version exists both printed and digitally.
04:24:54
I've got digital models of all this stuff and I've gotten down to the point where I know what the railings look like in this proposed section for the bridge option.
04:25:06
If that's the direction you decide to go.
04:25:08
So I think what Mr. Tolbert has been after is that we needed, before we could proceed to talk about design, that we needed to have the pricing
04:25:21
the same for both versions.
04:25:24
And so if you're going to talk about the underpass and all the bling that's in that, that it's equally, as Kathy pointed out, useful that we talk about the bling that would go with this enhanced bridge so that, you know,
04:25:40
Two years from now, we're not standing around going, yeah, but you told me it was going to be 15 and it's actually 20, whatever that is.
04:25:46
So anyway, and as I said previously, my frustration with this is that we keep talking about cost and we don't talk about design.
04:25:58
So getting the pricing thing straightened out now for you all is important so that we can then proceed towards
04:26:08
the design thing.
04:26:10
So if you'd like to hear more about the other parts of this, I'm happy to sort of give you guys more background with the trees and the shading and all that sort of stuff.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
04:26:22
Anybody else would like to speak?
SPEAKER_17
04:26:27
Rebecca Quinn, 104 Fourth Street here in the city.
04:26:32
You all know I was an avid proponent of dredging when it was
04:26:38
as an alternative to a big dam.
04:26:45
Dredging creates volume and that volume would have well served our long term needs.
04:26:53
As you know, water use continues to go down.
04:26:58
I no longer support dredging.
04:27:00
because as Ms. Smith pointed out, water users don't get credit for any water volume that is created by dredging.
04:27:11
I think at this point dredging would indeed only be for recreational purposes.
04:27:16
I also was one of those proponents as an engineer and a consultant who promoted the idea of a performance-based or what is often called sort of a design-build approach.
04:27:28
And there was a great deal of interest from the dredging industry when we were talking about a design-build approach.
04:27:36
Well, however polite Mr. Frederick might be by pointing fingers, I want to remind you that
04:27:45
the concept of design-build was not pursued rather they came up with this PPEA which apparently nobody else has used and yet I will guarantee you that there are jurisdictions in the state that have used design-build maybe not for dredging but for other projects so in my opinion the Rivanna executive director has always opposed dredging and from where I sit
04:28:14
He sure seems to have done just about everything possible to make sure dredging will not occur in this community.
04:28:23
From finding this PPEA process to rejecting other proposals.
04:28:29
There was at least one other proposal that in my opinion was rejected for a reason that was certainly within the power of the committee to accept.
04:28:42
So I appreciate, I'm glad that y'all are getting quarterly reviews from Mr. Frederick, from the Rivanna authorities.
04:28:51
I would hope in the future that the material be made available to the public when the agenda is made available.
04:28:58
But in the meantime,
04:29:01
You know, let's be sure we remember how we got to where we are.
04:29:07
My question about the money that is or isn't there is how bright is the line between water rates?
04:29:15
Is it in the water budget and yet are we talking about the sewer budget to do the odor work?
04:29:23
Thank you.
04:29:25
Anybody else would like to speak?
SPEAKER_24
04:29:32
Rolf Braun, 1120 East High Street.
04:29:35
On the bridge again, I think that moving forward with the enhanced bridge as a design sounds like a very good idea.
04:29:46
I would, I guess, caution that you will get to the point that you have a very complete set of bridge designs with the old and the new and you'll be able to
04:29:55
work with whatever elements from those and then this underpass thing will still be in the background that is incomplete and my problem with the underpass honestly is that it's it's not even it's not even wrong it's not even half-baked if it were half-baked you'd know what the problems with it are but it's not even gotten to the point that
04:30:17
that the obvious problems have been discussed.
04:30:22
If you want cost controls, there's just a mention of bling in the bridge.
04:30:29
Well, the issues with the underpass probably aren't going to be bling.
04:30:32
They're going to be things like it's the lowest thing in the area.
04:30:36
There's going to be water coming in there from somewhere.
04:30:40
There's hydrology issues.
04:30:41
There's civil engineering issues that haven't even been
04:30:45
Discussion hasn't even started on those, much less finished.
04:30:53
If you want a structure that pedestrians will use, you've heard it several times tonight, I think, that people won't feel safe in the underpass unless it's wider and then you have a right of way and redevelopment issues to deal with.
04:31:10
If you want a structure cyclists will use, that's possibly an extra 30 feet of grade.
04:31:14
I think it's about twice the grade in the underpass as it is in the bridge structure.
04:31:19
Cyclists are probably going to be happier to use the bridge structure if it's well designed.
04:31:23
As far as public participation, I think there have been a lot of problems with that starting with the MMM process and going through the latest design events that they haven't been well advertised.
04:31:35
They've been driven by groups outside of the city planning process.
04:31:39
And I'm still astounded that the bike committee endorsed the underpass structure that's clearly inferior for cyclists.
04:31:49
So I think it needs to be driven, not by any of the designers, it needs to be driven by the city somehow.
04:31:56
It needs to be driven through an organized public participation process by city employees.
04:32:01
And it needs to be well advertised, well in advance to get a maximum of public participation, even people who haven't been keeping, who haven't necessarily been keeping track of the issue and aren't on the mailing list of the people who are trying to advocate this stuff.
04:32:16
That's all I have to say, thank you.
Satyendra Huja
Mayor, City Council
04:32:17
Thank you very much.
04:32:19
Anybody else would like to speak?