City Council Meeting   10/17/2011

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We're going to start with the Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Dr. Brown?

Here.

Thank you, Ms. Barfield.

And here to receive this award is Mildred Spicer.

Do you want to say anything?

It's been a pleasure working with everyone up here and I think that it shouldn't be

It was really amazing and I'm very honored to be part of dancing.

It's a lot of fun to do and it's wonderful to be a part of it and I thank you, Milford, for allowing me to make it, try to facilitate it happening.

Thank you.

and so we want to congratulate our Parks and Recreation Department and the Facilities Development staff on this award.

I don't know if Brian Daley or anybody from – oh, there he is, Brian Daley.

and then again this award, so thank you.

Ms. Szakos, you have one or two announcements?

We have a group from Lycée Pasteur in our sister city of Besançon, France, and they're here with their, I assume, teachers, leaders, guides, Madame Melly Giraud, Madame Dominique, and Mr. Jim Walters, and Monsieur David Marachal.

The three of you would stand and then all the students as well.

And do you all have somebody who would be willing to come forward and tell us a little bit about what you've been doing and what your plans are for your visit?

Thank you.

I'll speak this way.

If you speak into the microphone.

Please send my regards.

So come and give us your suggestions, ideas, criticisms, complaints, and compliments.

Mr. Huja?

So I hope you will take advantage of that and become healthier.

This is a chance for the public to speak out on their ideas for the future of the east side of McIntyre Park.

So I hope to see you all there.

Mr. Jones?

We just became aware that the program is now potentially supporting the building of sidewalks and there's a deadline that's coming up soon until we'd like to have a resolution from council that would indicate support for the matching grant revenue sharing program.

The first person who signed up to speak is Izzy Artiles.

Thank you very much.

Rebecca Quinn.

And then on Thursday, also at Lane Auditorium at 6 o'clock, there is another public meeting, not about water supply, but about the pump station options.

Brandon Collins.

Thank you.

John Cruikshank.

Thank you.

Brian Venio

But the city continues to arbitrarily single out my wife and harass her for providing instruction whether or not an actual financial relationship exists.

Mr. Venier, your time is up.

She's next.

She's welcome to come up and speak if she would like.

Thank you for your time.

Angela Tutovani.

Thank you so much.

Mary Miller.

Thank you.

Joanna Salidas.

Thank you.

Evan Knappenberger.

Thank you.

and respect the deep traditions of free speech and free assembly.

Thank you.

Thank you.

and Coby Hoffman is the last speaker.

Thank you very much.

Ms. Edwards, you've been nominated.

I want to make sure that we spend some time having a meaningful discussion about that.

Thank you, Ms. Edwards.

And I think that can be received in a more positive light by UVA, yet still carry the same message from City Council.

And I also would like to request the city manager to investigate with the city attorney the issues of procedures dealing with pools and occupation also.

So thank you for being some of those best elements.

So we'll add those to our agenda.

It may require some research from both city attorney and city manager before we can come to a conclusion.

Would you like to just comment now or would you like to, do you think it would be appropriate or helpful to have a discussion later?

Not expecting council to come to any sort of conclusion about next steps.

Thank you for introducing me.

They are interested, but it is obviously a complex issue that includes an upgrade of the infrastructure.

I wanted to ask Mr. Jones if there has been any follow up with Rivanna on the issue of coming up with new projections on water rates or wholesale rates at least based on the information you now have.

Mr. Frederick can provide some response to that.

Why can't those rate projections be updated?

If we do that before we do a cost sharing agreement, are you assuming that the rates will be the same in the county?

We're not talking about rates that will be passed down to city rate payers versus county rate payers.

What study are you referencing, just to refresh my memory?

Okay, any other comments from counselors?

I have a comment about the consent agenda.

Any comments, questions?

So I just want to let people know that's out there.

Mr. Mayor, I would like to request that we take off item number H, Dealing with Oakhurst Circle Development because I have suggestions for that.

Any other items to be added or pulled for further discussion or any other comments, questions or motion to approve the remaining consent agenda?

I'll move the remaining agenda.

Second.

Mr. Craig Brown.

Mr. Frederick's here tonight and I'll be glad to try to answer any questions that council may have.

Seeing none, we will close the public hearing and open it up to council member questions, comments, or a motion to approve the ordinance.

Excuse me, just for discussion purposes, I'll move the ordinance.

Is there a second?

I'll second it.

All right, so it'll carry forward to our next meeting, but if there's any discussion you'd like to have, go ahead and raise comments, questions.

Nothing?

Mr. Tom Frederick.

Of course we presented at the last meeting and I think we wanted Mr. Frederick to have him here to answer any questions that you may have to follow up before making a decision.

Okay, so Mr. Frederick is available, thank you for coming, Mr. Frederick is available to answer any questions.

Has that been done?

Good luck, Dr. Brown.

So I think that's kind of the reason we're back here.

If we know now that there's less sedimentation occurring, or it's indicated that less sedimentation is occurring in the reservoir, South Fork Rivanna Reservoir, and there might be more water capacity in the reservoir than we originally thought, why would that not be reflected in the current safe yield, or the long-term projection safe yield for that matter?

The most recently performed sedimentation rate analysis is what's in the report.

Other questions or comments?

What would it take to change that, to give the most updated figures?

unless you've predetermined what you want the conclusions to be from one data point.

And this plan includes plans to do that, to update those periodically?

That's the purpose from DEQ's perspective.

Is there a second?

I'll second.

Any further discussion?

If we do approve and adopt, it wasn't on October 3rd.

It has been moved and seconded.

Any other comments?

And here to present is Mary Joy Scallop.

And I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Any questions for Ms. Geller before we invite the applicants to come forward?

not a lot of bricks to breathe and would cause a problem that apparently is not necessarily the opinion of a lot of painting contractors and I just wondered how much of that has to do with how much the decision has to do with that and how much is these other factors like generally not covering brick and masonry and that's the defining characteristic to have it uncovered.

But I think that in terms of your appeal of this decision, it should be based more on the guideline.

There was an assertion made by the applicant that a significant number of the brick houses in the vicinity of their house have been painted.

Not since they were designated historic.

Yes.

I mean, since I've been here, none have been approved on Park Street.

Alright, we'll invite the applicants forward.

Yes.

Did you want to paint this because of your personal desire or because of something wrong with the building?

It's just, to me, not as appealing of a color of brick, I guess, would be mine.

And we have Mr. Fred Wolf, chair of the Board of Architectural Review.

I think that the applicant's point about whether or not the brick is character-defining may be fair, but I would also say that the board arrived at this decision unanimously and after a lot of discussion, so I'm here simply to put that forward.

Is it the obligation of the seller or both or the real estate agent?

and so that's often one thing that we hear on the board where people come and point to an example of something that they think was done similarly and you have to sort of talk through the fact that that predated the listing.

Two comments just, usually as recess records show if a property is historic there is some designation on their record plus the realtors themselves usually tell you that whether it is historic or not so there is some indication at least there is some responsibility also I would believe that's the case having just sold a house and it being in a conservation district

I understand that the people who purchased were made aware and then we had some discussion back and forth about what the guidelines were.

Are the regulations about these structures kind of definable enough that you could put in the format like that so that if somebody were to buy a house in a district like this they would kind of know what that generally might entail and who to ask?

But I think it's true what Huja said that often realtors will actually market a historic district as an amenity.

I can imagine buying and knowing it's historic but not realizing that that meant you couldn't paint it.

We could make something like that and distribute it among realtors and have it available.

But it sounds like no matter what the answer to that question was, you had enough things that you still feel it would have been unanimous?

And while I personally have nothing against painted brick, I feel like we apply the guidelines in a consistent manner.

I don't like it very much.

And I think there are times where painted brick also solves some problems.

Well do you, given that fact, do you sense that at any point in the future the guidelines might change?

This is not a common question to us.

We just did a five year review of the guidelines and I think they actually made that sentence stronger, weaker.

After a lot of debate, surprisingly, came about to be a unanimous decision amongst nine people and not just myself, so I don't want to... Is this a handmade brick or machine made brick?

Is this a handmade brick or machine made brick?

That's my recollection from our discussion.

Any application?

What's the sense of counsel on this matter?

support the B.A.R.

So, I mean I'm too sympathized but I think it's just, I think it's pretty clear and I agree with Mr. Huja.

I agree with Mr. Huja.

But I do appreciate you coming tonight and I wish you well with your own house.

It was a good ascent.

Always will be.

And I agree with me and Norris and my only caveat would be if you decide to take it to the next level, take occupied Charlottesville with you.

In that spirit, I make a motion that we accept the recommendation on this issue.

And thank you, Mr. Walden and Ms. Gao as well.

Next item on our agenda is a report, Vinegar Hill Apology.

As previously mentioned, Vice Mayor Edwards has spearheaded this resolution and I believe has a few comments to make about it as well.

the children and grandchildren, the nieces and nephews of the family members that have passed away, to have them have an opportunity to come to council to be a part of what I believe is a new step in addressing the history and just being able to move on.

I think that is another aspect of Vinegar Hill which I think is really missing now.

And I also wanted to say it not only includes Finnegan Hill, but it also mentioned in the resolution will be the Garrett Street and the changes that took place as a result of urban renewal for that part of the city as well.

I would rather that we commit that it not or that we resolve that it not or that we promise that it not and make it a stronger verb.

I agree.

Dr. Brown?

I think it's long overdue.

I think I saw Ms. Green walk in a minute ago.

Now maybe it will be worthwhile looking at the list and maybe informing the people who might be here to take part in this exercise.

Thank you.

And I think that the dialogue on race has done a really good job of compiling and pulling together that history in a way that we can all know it.

We do have at least one member in the audience whose family owned a business in Vinegar Hill and I hope at our next meeting that, well as has been discussed here, that we'll have a good representation of people who were affected or whose family members were affected by this action so that we can look them in the eyes and then atone for it.

Mr. Mayor, I was wondering, won't they have a chance to speak at this meeting?

Yes, I think that was Ms. Edwards' intention.

Okay, good.

We'll take that up for a vote on November 7th.

Yes, sir.

And here to present is the wonderful Heather Kellams.

Thank you very much.

You said that only 15 are able to open a bank account and why can't we do a direct deposit for them?

Because a lot of them don't have their DMVID, they don't have their ID to open up a bank account.

And I think that's a good skill to learn.

He just stole my line.

What he just said.

Thank you very much.

Thank you for being with us tonight.

In addition, a collaborative financial vehicle, the Community Investment Corporation, has been created to provide modest loans to small minority-owned businesses.

Plaques honoring the Charlottesville 12 will be unveiled on November 18 at Venable Elementary School and the former Lane High School with a reception to be held the next day at Venable.

Do you want to explain who the Charlottesville 12 are for people who may not know?

They are the people who have been identified as the folks who were denied entry when massive resistance happened and they are, I don't remember the numbers, how many people were at Venable and how many at the high school?

Hence the Charlottesville 12 and those are the folks we're honoring on the 18th and 19th.

We already know some of you participate so

Any comments, questions?

Especially, please, during the follow-up and action teams and doing something to follow up on the concerns, which is most important in my mind.

It's the action that's much more important.

I think when the dialogue circles were happening everybody knew about it and it was kind of generated a buzz and then when it went into the action team phase although the people on those action teams knew that there were still things happening a lot of folks who weren't involved wondered if it had just stopped and I think it's sort of it's like we planted a seed and now we're starting to see all these plants coming up and I I think that these things are things that people in the whole community can see now and so

Like newsletter or such email or some such thing.

We do have a newsletter which needs to be more frequent and we have sent emails out that also needs to be more frequent and more extensive.

and one of our challenges is making sure that's up to date.

And what is that address?

I'm sorry.

And what is that website address?

The website address is Charlottesville.

Do you want to come up to people at home?

It's www.Charlottesville.org backslash dialogue.

And I had emailed you a question last night of is there a mechanism to do that and if so, what would trigger that mechanism and who triggers that mechanism.

Do they want to stay overnight there?

and so with that I'll turn it over to Mr. Brown to answer legal questions and how we move forward.

So maybe this is a question for Mr. Brown but we do have a special event permit process that groups can use to secure access to a park or a street and what would so there is precedent to a certain extent in allowing groups to reserve public spaces for events for

but those are the two time periods that I'm aware of.

This is their discussion.

I mean, parks and streets and other public places of that nature have been recognized by courts as traditional public forum for folks to express their grievances.

Does anybody know how many days they will stay there?

So if they have a number in mind that would be helpful.

To follow up on the part that allows demonstrations to go on for longer periods of time, it is upon request, upon request to who?

is applying to what's called the events coordinator in our regulations, which is the director of parks and recreation or someone else designated by the city manager.

But on the other hand, would that president allow a group that wasn't particularly polite to have this

Protests and demonstrations are not so much allow them, but we really aren't in a position to not allow them.

Invest in the, I'll say this in shorthand, invest in the director, the discretion to make people tone it down if it gets out of hand.

So going back to City Manager's suggestion that if the guidelines are needed, maybe we ought to do one of them and just use some guidelines that would be helpful.

It's a practice we already have in place.

So you're suggesting that even though it may not be 50 people at any given moment that they go ahead and do the permit process and that we extend it or ask the Parks and Rec folks to do so?

But then again, I'm not really that worried about this.

If it's less than 50 people you don't have to apply for a permit but there are quite a few of the regulations that you still have to adhere to.

Do you have the language of those here?

Yes.

Never mind.

Would you mind not reading it to us?

The 50 people is that...

They can demonstrate without a permit, but that there are certain rules that apply.

if otherwise conducted in accordance with the regulations then it gives the numbers of the regulations you still have to comply with.

So are you essentially suggesting that their next step is to meet with Mr. Daley and to pursue this?

If there are certain people that are heading, I heard reference to a legal team and all, we certainly provide you with copies of the regulations that we think apply so you can look at them and ask whatever questions you have from city staff.

And we did encourage the group to consider applying for the permit late last week when we discussed this with them.

And so the permit, just again, just so everybody's clear, once you receive the permit, then if the demonstration goes beyond three days, you just need to request of Mr. Daley that it be extended.

I think they're already requesting it.

And again, assuming no one else has reserved that space, then that's the only issue, I think, that you might have to work around.

And good luck.

Well, I wonder if, as Council, although we're not, I wonder if we might, just as a Council, agree to do some sort of, not resolution, but some sort of, what do you call it, kind of intent of the Council.

Sense of Council.

Sense of Council that we feel that those extensions would be appropriate.

not that I don't think Mr. Daley could handle it but I don't know if you want to tell him because he should be able to judge that himself.

Well does anyone here disagree with that intent?

That was it, huh?

He's in a position to make sure the park is treated well and the rules are abided by it, and as long as the group's doing those things, then I trust that he will.

Is there a porta-potty at Lee Park?

But they have met with the library to discuss.

Is that something we would be willing to provide or to find a source for?

We paid for them.

Yes.

specific thoughts you want to share with us on this whole issue of whether or not people should be allowed to give swim lessons in our city aquatic centers and even if we don't necessarily come to a decision tonight at least to share your own.

Did you come up please for the microphone?

Now I absolutely agree about Smith Aquatic and Fitness Center this is a really nice pool.

Are you further answering the question on whether you had a record at this meeting?

I think the answer depends on who you talk with.

And I do believe the answer was yes, you could instruct your child.

and this is our daily basis.

And he said that you could teach your own child at that meeting?

He was just, he said he will answer to me written later.

That's the issue that we have and for us it's always been...

Let's let Mr. Jones continue.

I guess that's my question.

They didn't feel like they came away with clarity on that.

But there are other things that we could do to police that regulation.

I think the concern, we have several concerns and I'll let Mr. Brown talk about the legal aspects of this.

And so how do you establish who can and cannot do that?

getting instruction or whether somebody is there just swimming on his or her own.

But it does add to the liability.

and then they can check their references or whatever that is and make sure that they're not teaching kids you know breathe underwater or something crazy so that we do somewhat limit our liability and I wonder if that's something we might explore as a way to make sure that people who really are qualified to do it maybe pay a small fee for a license to do that and that we then it gives us some control so that would be something that I just had a question about before you start with your answers.

I'm looking at your website.

and so I mean if you want to call it a business I mean yeah she's making a little bit of money out of it.

All I'm saying is your presentation earlier I didn't it seemed like people would see teaching your daughter to swim and they'd ask can you teach mine too but the reality is you actually advertise.

That's actually most of the lessons I've got because of that.

Mr. Brown, would you like to shed some light on this?

I don't know but I think he should have the opportunity to come up with what he thinks is a fair and enforceable and enforceable in a consistent manner policy and if the Vanyo's are still upset they can let you know.

would pass that threshold because obviously then you know something more is going on but when it's just one-on-one I just don't see how you're gonna when you empower a pool official to say you know if one person is teaching one person why is that person you know empowered to go and go up to this person I think it leads to discrimination here we have two Russian-speaking people who are coming before you could be you know some some pool official could target a certain different class of people

So I think you need to set an observable threshold in order to make this equitable.

I think that way everybody will have clarity and then once we come up, once there's a policy that's been drafted then we'll certainly have opportunity for anybody who would be affected by it to comment on it and see if we can come to some agreement.

Do you know when that policy might be?

You have a rough idea, Mr. Daley, on...

I know you can't hear me, policies and development currently

That's why I wasn't.

Is that safe to say?

Yes, sir.

We're going to work on those.

Parents know who to bring.

I will offer it as my personal suggestion, but Mr. Daley is an expert in this, so I will defer to him.

So you will forward that information to Mr. Daley?

Absolutely.

might want to weigh in on this.

I mean, I feel like.

Ms. McKeever, any comments?

So of course, we welcome the opportunity to discuss this.

It seems that two weeks is a very short time to get that process done.

Well, he's already started it, so I trust Mr. Daly knows.

I mean, if we were to run it through the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board, that would extend the process, because they're meeting this week and then won't meet again until a month from now, so.

There's no problem.

Thank you.

Next item, Mr. Huja.

You had some questions?

They're willing to do that, except that they need a request from the city.

Do you have any reason why we may not?

Mr. Williams volunteered his staff to write it, so we were fine with that.

So you don't see any reason why the city should not request it?

No, we're not submitting a competing application and we don't have a real problem with that.

So I will move that we accept the recommendation of the staff plus this request to TJPDC for an enhancement of their application.

Is there a second to that motion?

Second.

Mr. Jones, there were two items you had regarding a public safety grant and VDOT revenue sharing proposal.

that this program was reserved for road assistance but we have since learned that it may also include sidewalks and it grants upwards of $500,000 would be potentially coming our way to help us pay for sidewalk repair and we would use the sidewalk repair list that we already have in place so we're asking for council's approval to move forward and submit a grant application.

And the match funds would come from stuff we've already allocated for Sidewalk Street.

Carries unanimously.

Thank you, Mr. Jones.

Public safety grant.

This will be a resolution that would indicate our support for that grant.

Not to embarrass you, Chief Warner, but I think without Chief Warner's leadership we would not be in a position to be even talking about a grant of this nature and so thank you for all of your work and for the recognition you're bringing to our community and the dollars you're bringing to our community.

So I make a motion that we support this recognition.

Is there a second?

Second and I agree with the mayor.

We will now wrap up with one more session of Matters by the Public.