Central Virginia
City of Charlottesville
City Council Meeting 11/16/2009
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City Council Meeting
11/16/2009
CALL TO ORDER
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
ROLL CALL
ANNOUNCEMENTS
AWARDS/RECOGNITIONS Women’s Equality Day Proclamation
MATTERS BY THE PUBLIC
Conveyance of Portion of Jefferson Park Avenue Right of Way
Conveyance of City Land between Elm Street and Cherry Avenue
Community Development Block Grant Priorities – FY 2011
Transferring Hillsdale Drive Project Funds to Charlottesville Economic Development Authority
Accessory Dwelling Units
COUNCIL RESPONSES TO MATTERS BY THE PUBLIC
OTHER BUSINESS
MATTERS BY THE PUBLIC
ADJOURNMENT
SPEAKER_14
00:00:00
Music Playing
00:00:20
Sheltered from the wrong sides I'll take you from your own blinds The echo of your story But all I hear are no signs I spell the words of weaving And when the waves are leaving What should I be believing?
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That I am only dreaming You go there, you go there, and I go there I just can't let it be still you
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Be the traitor, hold tight, and let it make you draw the line, because they are your still life, your way back to the moment, and to the journey, turn to the beginning, you beginning, still looking for the answer, I can't
00:01:10
It's either this or that way It's one way or the other It should be one direction It could be one reflection The turn I had just taken The turn that I was making I might be just beginning
00:01:43
Thanks for watching!
SPEAKER_14
00:02:45
Omidyayo Venitayo
00:03:09
Deo, Deo
00:03:52
Jeannie Teo, Avril Lavigne, Rene Teo, Subra Venter, Leo, Jiho Sun, Adam Tung, Leo Teo, Don't leave it, let it go to you, Jiho Teo, Rene Teo, Subra Venter, Leo Teo, Jiho
00:04:41
It's our adventure, may you heal Don't need help, ain't need to heal It's our adventure, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
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He rejects his sins forevermore
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Oh Lord, let me be with Thee, Let me be generous, be safe and strong
00:05:52
Satyendra Huja
SPEAKER_19
00:06:29
Coach, you can call the roll please.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
00:06:38
Thank you.
00:06:38
We have a few announcements tonight.
00:06:39
First of all, November 26th and 27th for the Thanksgiving holiday, City Hall will be closed and there will not be any trash collection on Thanksgiving Day the 26th.
00:06:49
The holiday market will begin November 28th and run Saturdays through December 19th from 8 a.m. until 2 p.m. on Water Street lots.
00:06:58
We have two very special events coming up this weekend in conjunction with our downtown for the holidays campaign, the Charlottesville holiday tradition.
00:07:08
On Friday, November 20th, the Grand Illumination from 5 to 7 p.m. That's of course where we illuminate our community's holiday tree, the Christmas tree, and see the brand new mall-length holiday lights.
00:07:20
We've got face paint, balloon art, seasonal music, and carols.
00:07:24
and you might even enjoy an early snowfall.
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Saturday, November 21st is a holiday heritage parade from 10 to 11 a.m. We'll proceed from the army to the pavilion and this is a very festive parade in conjunction with the Thanksgiving holiday show in the pavilion from 11 a.m. to 1230 p.m. as part of the Jefferson Thanksgiving Festival.
00:07:49
Many exciting things happening downtown this weekend.
00:07:51
Please come down and enjoy them.
00:07:54
Any other announcements or items to be added to our agenda tonight?
Holly Edwards
Member, City Council
00:07:59
At this time of announcement, looking ahead, the Dialogue on Race kickoff will be December 5th, that's Saturday, from 10 a.m. to 12 noon at the Martin Luther King Performing Arts Center.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
00:08:15
Okay, we have a couple of very special awards this evening, awards and recognitions, both of them having an environmental theme.
00:08:23
First of all, very pleased to note that
00:08:27
The City of Charlottesville, as part of the Virginia Municipal League Green Government Challenge, was presented back in October, October 20th with a platinum certification this year as part of the Green Government Challenge.
00:08:41
The City of Charlottesville for successfully implementing environmental policies
00:08:45
and taking practical actions to reduce carbon emissions.
00:08:48
This is a very high honor, and we have with us tonight several of our environmental staff, but I believe our environmental administrator, Crystal Whittemore, will be accepting this plaque and maybe sharing a few words about, or Dan Frisbee, who they're arguing about, will be coming forward.
00:09:04
Let's have both of you come forward.
00:09:06
These folks are really
00:09:08
absolute top of the game for this state and for the country.
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We owe them a great debt of gratitude for your hard work on these initiatives.
00:09:16
So let's give them a round of applause.
00:09:26
Congratulations.
00:09:29
And do you want to share with us what this means?
SPEAKER_05
00:09:32
Essentially, the Virginia Municipal League partnered with BACO and the Virginia School
00:09:38
Board Association this year to do a second annual Go Green Challenge and as they describe it, it's a friendly competition between localities and other school systems, for example, to identify a series of green and sustainable practices.
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A lot of them are focused on energy efficiency
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our climate protection and sustainability and we won for our size last year and so it's nice to know that we could do a little bit better than last year and actually get the platinum level so thanks to VML it is a friendly challenge and it does open up a lot of dialogue between the communities participating so thank you.
SPEAKER_07
00:10:16
Thank you Ms. Hurdlebaum.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
00:10:23
The second recognition tonight is a proclamation celebrating Arbor Day whereas in 1872 Jay Sterling Morton proposed to the Nebraska Board of Agriculture that a special day be set aside for the planting of trees and whereas this holiday called Arbor Day was first observed for the planting of more than a million trees in Nebraska and whereas Arbor Day is now observed throughout the nation and the world
00:10:45
and whereas trees can reduce the erosion of our precious topsoil by wind and water, cut heating and cooling costs, moderate the temperature, clean the air, produce life-giving oxygen and provide habitat for wildlife and whereas trees are a renewable resource giving us paper, wood for our homes, fuel for our fires and beautify our community and whereas trees in our city increase property values, enhance the economic vitality of business areas and beautify our community
00:11:12
and whereas trees, wherever they are planted, are a source of joy and spiritual renewal, now therefore I, Dave Morris, Mayor of the City of Charlottesville, Virginia, do hereby proclaim Arbor Day in the City of Charlottesville and I urge all citizens to celebrate Arbor Day and to support efforts to protect our trees and woodlands.
00:11:28
So, we will be ever mindful of the value of trees in our community.
SPEAKER_19
00:11:34
Are you going to plant some trees?
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
00:11:37
I believe we have a celebration.
00:11:40
I don't see Mr. Daley here.
00:11:41
I know every year around Arbor Day we have a tree planting ceremony and I'm not sure what the plan is for this year, if anybody knows.
00:11:48
Otherwise we'll...
00:11:51
Okay, so we'll get back to you on the actual scheduling of that.
00:11:56
We will now open up our meeting to matters by the public.
00:12:01
As is our custom, when you come forward, please state your name and give your address and keep your remarks for three minutes.
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The first person who signed up to speak tonight is John Saltz.
SPEAKER_13
00:12:17
Good evening.
00:12:18
I'm here to speak about the budget as usual.
00:12:24
My name is John False.
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I live at 1513 Redby Road in the city.
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The initiation of the annual budget discussion should begin with one clear goal.
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Adopt a budget that will reduce the property tax rate by at least three cents per hundred.
00:12:43
Gary O'Connell will say, oh no, we can't do that.
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We face a very uncertain budget future.
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He has said this every year since the year 2000.
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Sometimes it's unfunded state mandates, sometimes it's increase in gas, there's always a reason.
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But one can cry wolf only so often.
00:13:05
We've had an annual surplus every single year.
00:13:09
7.8 million in 2006, 7 million in 2007, only 2.4 million in 2008, and now only 5.3 million our last fiscal year.
00:13:25
This was the year when the worst recession in years had hit the United States and property values dropped everywhere.
00:13:32
On a side note, isn't it interesting that the super-fast, million-dollar-per-year CityLink computer system used by the financial department couldn't calculate this surplus until after the election?
00:13:46
We wouldn't want candidates to have to justify the current tax rate, would we?
00:13:51
Well, how do you keep spending down so as to justify a three-cent tax rate reduction?
00:13:56
Well, are you going to propose a pay increase for city employees?
00:14:03
Few working in the private sector will get any increase.
00:14:06
Those of us receiving social security are getting no increase because the cost of living has not increased.
00:14:13
To increase pay for city employees while giving no aid to the many retired citizens would be the height of hypocrisy.
00:14:22
Another possible saving can be found in the classified ads of the Daily Progress of the 11th.
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What was that?
00:14:29
I guess that was last Thursday.
00:14:32
It's D, Assistance to Board and Commissions.
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Basically, Neighborhood Development is seeking a part-time high school graduate, GED acceptable, to quote, take minutes at public meetings.
00:14:50
You've got a copy of it.
00:14:52
You say that you value public input hiring, and we know that having a neighborhood development staff to attend those meetings would be somewhat inconvenient.
00:15:03
But do we really have to have notes by a high school level employee which might or might not be read by Jim Talbert?
00:15:11
Well, we could do away with that.
00:15:12
We could do away with the meetings themselves.
00:15:14
That would seem to be even cheaper.
00:15:17
I realize that none of you need to be responsible to the public, being Democrats in a one-party town.
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But you say you are.
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Show it.
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Ease the un-related tax burden on us.
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Specify that the budget currently being developed must include a three cent reduction.
00:15:36
There is plenty of slack.
00:15:38
Thank you.
00:15:38
Thank you, Mr.
00:15:38
Frost.
00:15:39
Betty Mooney.
SPEAKER_04
00:15:45
I'm Betty Mooney of 201 Sunset Avenue and I want to start off my remarks tonight by talking about Richard Dreyfus.
00:15:53
One of the great advantages of living in Charlottesville is we have amazing people come here to speak and I was privileged and very grateful to be able to hear him speak today at the University of Virginia and I think he was speaking to all of us but he was speaking to me too because
00:16:12
He was saying that when we're making decisions in the public sphere these days that we have given up on the best that our country gave to us.
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And that if we don't ask the difficult questions of decisions that are being made, we're letting our country down.
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And so he said that we need to use reason, logic, and clarity of thinking when we make our decisions.
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And we need to differentiate, he said, between facts and emotional bias.
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And most of all, we need dissent.
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But we need the dissent to be civil.
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So I hope that my dissent, that I come to you month after month about this enormous decision that our community is making about the water plan is civil.
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But he said, when we're looking injustice in the face, we must be outraged.
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And I was lucky enough to get him to ask, I got to ask a question.
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I said, well what is the difference between civility and outrage?
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And can the two coexist?
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And he said, certainly.
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He said, you must be outraged when you are looking at conflicts of interest and injustice.
00:17:27
So the last time I came before you I felt that I had heard an injustice from the director of our law authority.
00:17:34
He had told us that a new dam would cost less than repairing the dam we had.
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I was outraged.
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I was also happy to hear some of the members of council were very shocked themselves and maybe on the verge of outrage also.
00:17:51
Well now I know that we were lied to.
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And I don't like to use that word, but I have proof.
00:17:57
I have a tape of the company he says Schnabel Engineering told him
00:18:03
that it was true that the new dam would be less expensive than repairing the dam we had.
00:18:10
Now Mr. Brown tried to help him a little bit by saying, oh but Mr. Frederick, you didn't mean just repairing, I think you meant adding 13 feet.
00:18:19
Now all this is on tape, that is the great thing about our society.
00:18:23
And again what your drive has said, isn't it wonderful, because in our society we are free to dissent, we are free to ask questions, and we have transparency, so we have tapes of all this.
00:18:34
So I ask you, if we are being lied to by the Director of Air Water Authority, what does this council intend to do?
00:18:42
I have the tape of the meeting, I'm willing to give it to all of you, you have the tape of his remarks at council.
00:18:49
I ask you to ask the hard questions of yourself.
00:18:52
We are dependent on him for a lot of information.
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We can't keep going forward being misled in this way.
00:18:59
So I ask you to please look into this and protect the city.
00:19:05
You are our representatives.
00:19:06
Thank you.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
00:19:07
Thank you, Ms. Marine.
00:19:07
Mark CATEC.
SPEAKER_07
00:19:15
Good evening.
00:19:17
I'd like to tell council what I do for a living and in a minute you will understand why.
00:19:21
I'm a dual medical equipment dealer specializing in mobility equipment such as power chairs and manual chairs.
00:19:27
I'm also a pedorthist, which is someone who has been medically trained in the fitting and modification of the footwear.
00:19:33
We have an office on Buckmar Drive where we before see patients but not everyone is able to come to our office.
00:19:41
For this reason we have a very unique mobile unit.
00:19:43
For about seven years I've been seeing patients at Crescent Hall and I use the word patient because for everyone we see we have a prescription from the doctor.
00:19:51
In the past we have made arrangements to see patients in the activity room.
00:19:55
This year we did the same and given permission to use the ring tomorrow and Wednesday.
00:20:00
We then made appointments with the patients which requires a lot of
00:20:03
Late last Thursday we received a call from the property manager that we could not use the ring even though we had previously been given permission to do so.
00:20:12
It seems that the property manager equated us with shoe salesman.
00:20:15
What we are doing is shoes under a special program in Medicare to provide shoes, insole exam and diabetic education in order to prevent foot complication.
00:20:24
This is a Medicare prevention program.
00:20:27
Our ability to perform this service to the Crescent Hall tenants will be at risk in the future if Crescent Hall management is not willing to work with us.
00:20:35
I work a lot with Richmond Housing Redevelopment, Petersburg Housing Redevelopment, and you see a lot of the patients that they have in their complexes.
00:20:45
And it's kind of ironic that here in my hometown, just about 8 blocks from where I live, I'm having some difficulty.
00:20:51
I did speak to Councilwoman Edwards on Friday and she has told me just before this meeting that there may be some arrangements being made and unfortunately they'll be in time for tomorrow and Wednesday.
00:21:02
So I'll probably be going up and down the elevator about 40 or 60 times but hopefully something can be worked out in the future.
00:21:08
Thank you Mr. Kavett.
SPEAKER_09
00:21:09
Stratton Salutis Stratton Salutis, 704 Grave Street
00:21:21
Hello and good evening.
00:21:25
I went to the 250 Interchange public hearing a little while back ago and I wasn't surprised to find that I'd say about five times more people were against it than for it.
00:21:38
and that has been perhaps not quite that extreme but that's been the norm at these public hearings.
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The people are against the Meadow Creek Parkway and the interchange part of the Meadow Creek Parkway.
00:21:54
And again I also wanted to bring up the fact that currently still there is an untruth
00:22:01
upon which the interchange process is based.
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And Mr. Naranjuez and Counselor Edwards are willing to address that untruth and get this thing back on the right track.
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And I hope the other three counselors will be willing to do that as well.
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And this untruth specifically
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is that Charlottesville agreed to an at-grade version of the parkway without an interchange.
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And that seems like it's not very consequential, but in fact, it is very consequential.
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Because based on that untruth, Federal Highways has determined that we could use that interchange money without having to apply federal environmental laws to the rest of the parkway itself.
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And if we did, we would not be able to comply with those laws.
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and so I hope that you all address that.
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And another thing about that is it misleads the public because the interchange process is based on, oh, well, there will be a Meadow Creek Parkway built there before the interchange begins to be constructed.
00:23:08
So when they look at, do we need the interchange?
00:23:10
They say, well, look, there's a parkway already there destroying the traffic on 250.
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Of course we need it.
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And they say, will it cause any impacts?
00:23:17
They say, no, because
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the parkway already destroyed the parkway where the interchange would be and they say do we have any feasible alternatives?
00:23:24
No, because we need to connect to the parkway here.
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So I hope that you all will address that and also I hope that we ask Senator Warner
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to re-gift his interchange money so that federal money could still be spent to address transportation needs in this area.
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And I think even potentially a smaller interchange without the parkway that gave priority to bus rapid transit on 250 to connect Pantops and downtown and 29 North and also create pedestrian access to the park, that might be a way to go here.
00:24:00
Thank you very much.
00:24:01
Thank you Mr. Salinas.
00:24:02
Peter Kleeman.
SPEAKER_08
00:24:10
Good evening.
00:24:11
I'm Peter Kleeman.
00:24:12
I live at 407 Head Street in the city.
00:24:16
I applaud the environmental sustainability efforts of the city, and I'm delighted that the environmental staff is being awarded plaques and things for their efforts.
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And in light of this being recycling day, I learned on TV today,
00:24:34
and I think it's National Recycling Day and Arbor Day we should be sensitive to recycling and tree efforts and this weekend, Friday, Saturday and Sunday I was on the downtown mall and I came back behind where the City Annex and where the Herman Key Center is and there were two huge dumpsters
00:24:54
that were overflowing with recyclable materials mixed with some other materials making probably the whole thing just go into your landfill wherever the city's wastes go.
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And it just appears to me that with the vision of the city of being sustainable and recycling that perhaps there are some gaps in terms of
00:25:16
Having to practice, meet the vision.
00:25:19
And it just seems to me that probably several tons of recyclable paper, most of it looked like it was planning documents of old, things from the not in your backyard effort that were just bags of all paper, high quality revenue grade paper for the most part, and plans on large plan sheets.
00:25:37
It just appears to me that those are the kinds of things that should routinely be recycled.
00:25:43
and having them put in with mixed trash.
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And in the showcase area of downtown, all the visitors coming in for the weekend football game saw that these large mounds are indicative of a non-recycling culture at the City Hall area.
00:25:58
So I hope that whatever gap may be pluggable will be plugged.
00:26:02
Thanks.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
00:26:04
Thank you, Mr. Cleveland.
00:26:05
That was the last person to sign up to speak.
00:26:06
Is there anyone else in the public who would like to speak during matters by the public?
00:26:11
Now close Matters by the Public and open it up to council member responses to Matters by the Public.
00:26:17
Who would like to go first?
SPEAKER_19
00:26:18
I'd like to see Peterson, the Commissar, so we can investigate it so that we can see why it was happening.
David Brown
Member, City Council
00:26:32
I also kind of agree that Peter's bringing up a good point and he's also bringing up a point I think we can educate people to the fact that you know letter paper envelopes and paper have a lot of value for recycling and I think the way we now recycle at home commingling it
00:26:50
It doesn't bring out that value.
00:26:51
I know some of us still go to the recycling center just so we can feel like we do a better job with our higher grade paper we can save.
00:26:58
And I think for us to reach out to homeowners and businesses, most importantly, make sure our city departments are fully recycling our schools.
00:27:08
It's important.
Holly Edwards
Member, City Council
00:27:12
I just wanted to make a couple of comments that we talked about
00:27:17
Arbor Day event happening sometime in the spring.
00:27:20
I hope by then we also have our tree commission in place as well.
00:27:25
We talked about it in a work session so I hope that comes to fruition as well.
00:27:33
Regarding Crescent Halls, what is going to hopefully happen over the next few days is a meeting with the property manager and I really believe that once we all get a chance to communicate we'll be able to really
00:27:47
provide a solution that's going to be beneficial for everyone.
00:27:50
And also, it must be budget season because it's the migration of John Falls.
00:28:01
And that's how we know that budget season has officially begun.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
00:28:09
I really have nothing else to add other than, once again, thank you Mr. Salidas for speaking truth to power.
00:28:17
We'll now move on to our regular agenda.
00:28:20
I want to note a change on the order of the agenda tonight.
00:28:24
A couple of council members have asked that items four and five be switched around.
00:28:31
So item five, which is the
00:28:35
The fiscal year 2011 budget guidelines and long-term financial forecast report would go first, and then we would have item 4, which is the fiscal year 2009 year in appropriation, public hearing in appropriation.
00:28:48
Is that correct?
00:28:50
Okay, so other than that we will now move forward with our regular agenda tonight.
00:28:55
We're starting with appointments to boards and commissions document.
David Brown
Member, City Council
00:28:58
Okay, Mr. Mayor, I'd like to move that Nana Gardi be appointed to the Sister City Commission and that William Kehoe be appointed to both the Charlottesville Albemarle Airport Authority and the Charlottesville Albemarle Airport Commission.
00:29:15
Second.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
00:29:16
Any discussion?
00:29:17
If not, please indicate your vote.
00:29:20
Thank you very much.
00:29:23
On our consent agenda tonight, we have item A, an appropriation of $8,319 reimbursement from CPC for signage, second of two readings.
00:29:32
Item B, an appropriation of $3,317 PVCC contribution for bus shelter, second of two readings.
00:29:39
Item C, an appropriation of $10,850 regional jail grant, second of two readings.
00:29:44
Item D, an appropriation of $4,750 bulletproof partnership grant, second of two readings.
00:29:50
Item E, an appropriation of $665.95 SPCA spay and neuter program, first of one reading.
00:29:57
Item F, an appropriation of $195,300 energy efficiency grant, first of two readings.
00:30:03
Item G, a resolution accepting Kelsey Court and Tripper Court into the city street system as part of Madison Place subdivision, first of one reading.
00:30:11
Item H, an ordinance adding amusement centers to mixed use matrix, highway corridor district, second of two readings.
00:30:17
Item I, an ordinance rezoning 1012 Midland Street, 1106 and 1410 Carlton Avenue, and 504 Reeve Street from R2, B2, and B3 to PUD.
00:30:27
Got all that?
00:30:29
With proffers, second of two readings.
00:30:31
Item J, an ordinance changing stormwater requirements and water protection ordinance, first of two readings.
00:30:37
Is there a motion to approve the consent agenda or any items to be removed for further discussion?
SPEAKER_19
00:30:42
So moved.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
00:30:44
Second.
00:30:44
Any further discussion?
00:30:45
If not, please indicate your vote.
00:30:48
Thank you very much.
00:30:49
Consent agenda passes.
00:30:51
Next, we have a public hearing and an ordinance granting easements to the Rivanna Water and Sewer Authority for the Meadow Creek Sewer Interceptor Project.
00:30:59
The first of two meetings.
00:31:03
Who's up?
00:31:03
Ms. Hildebrandt?
00:31:05
Mr. Frederick?
00:31:08
We do the presentation.
00:31:09
Okay, so we do presentation for both.
00:31:12
Okay, so this is a PowerPoint presentation relating both to item two and item three, which relates to endorsing the concept of conservation easements to the nature conservancy for the stream restoration project, which is before us tonight, first of one meeting.
SPEAKER_05
00:31:32
On your way down you want to grab one of these maps that will give you the same as what's up on the wall.
SPEAKER_14
00:31:53
I just need to get a little screen.
SPEAKER_00
00:32:08
Tom, do you want to come sit up front as well because I'm going to identify everyone that's here.
SPEAKER_05
00:32:22
Good evening Mr. Mayor, Councillors and community members who are here or watching.
00:32:27
We've put together a presentation to provide you some background and context for two very important projects that are planned for the Meadow Creek Stream Corridor and there are quite a number of key participants in these projects including the Rivanna Water and Sewer Authority, the Nature Conservancy and the City of Charlottesville.
00:32:47
So I'm presenting on behalf of the project teams, but we have with us representatives from RWSA, S. Todd Frederick, Lauren Hildebrand from the City Utilities, Brian Dailey, Director of Parks and Recreation, and Diane Frisbee, Project Manager with the Nature Conservancy.
00:33:05
So they're here to answer any additional specific questions you may have about these projects.
00:33:10
The intention today is to go over some basic context, project goals and some key facts to share with you some maps of those two projects and some timeline details to speak about project management and communication within these projects and then finally to end with some discussions about the easement requests.
00:33:32
Just to start off by orienting you, this is a map where the orange line shows the city boundary.
00:33:38
The bluish area is essentially the drainage area, the watershed that goes to Meadow Creek, which is this highlighted portion in this northern part of Charlottesville.
00:33:49
And that essentially is the majority of Meadow Creek actually occurs within the city limits.
00:33:56
When we drop the aerial behind that, you can see here the projects start in the vicinity of the English Inn.
00:34:05
They parallel the stream for the entire length of the interceptor project.
00:34:11
The area outlined with the green boxes where the two projects, the stream corridor, sorry, the stream restoration project and the sewer interceptor project actually overlap.
00:34:21
The interceptor project leaves the city limits and then re-enters in this area here and then ends at the golf course where it joins the Rivanna interceptor.
00:34:37
Just to give you, we're going to talk about what I think is an extremely exciting project here to start with, a stream restoration project.
00:34:45
This journey, as I call it, started back in 2006 when we were looking for some realistic stream restoration possibilities within the city.
00:34:53
At that time, a proposal set was submitted to the U.S.
00:34:57
Corps of Engineers Virginia Aquatic Resources Trust Fund, which we refer to as VARTF, so I'm going to use that acronym.
00:35:04
VARTF is a cooperative program that essentially serves as a mechanism for compensatory mitigation for impacts to streams and wetlands, and it is largely managed by the Corps of Engineers
00:35:18
they review proposals and consult with DEQ and U.S.
00:35:22
Fish and Wildlife Service on proposals that qualify.
00:35:26
We were informed that the initial proposal received approval in late 2007 and then an additional portion was approved for inclusion in 2008.
00:35:39
So that essentially will address over 8,500 linear feet of the main stem of Meadow Creek
00:35:45
and the project area also includes about 1800 linear feet of tributaries that drain to Meadow Creek.
00:35:52
So that's over a mile and a half and I can tell you that that's one of the largest stream restoration projects I think I will ever see in my professional lifetime.
00:36:01
The project area includes over 73 acres of forest and wetland and we anticipate that some land donations will contribute to the expansion of the park system.
00:36:14
At this point, it's very important to realize that the design for this project has completed its conceptual phase and that the next steps will include the final design and then the construction of the projects.
00:36:26
I would like to take a moment to highlight the uniqueness of this funding level coming to this community to do an environmental improvement project.
00:36:37
And as well, it is the largest, not just urban stream project, but it is the largest stream project that the VARTIF program has funded, has approved funding for.
00:36:47
And it demonstrates their understanding and their acknowledgement of the role that urban streams play in a healthy watershed perspective.
00:36:58
The project goals, we've talked about these in some previous presentations, include decreasing sedimentation, enhancing the forested riparian buffers which are essentially the forest systems alongside the streams, improving the stream habitat, establishing some permanent protective measures, and then taking advantage of the educational opportunities that we'll have in this public parkland area.
00:37:23
So to start you off, to orient you, we're zooming in on the stream restoration project area.
00:37:30
And over here you see the Cannon-Harthwood Apartments, Seminole Square, this is Brookmill Apartments, over here you see Greenbrier Elementary School, and then this last portion is actually the Greenbrier Park.
00:37:45
And the project area, the terminus of the project area is the east end of Greenbrier Park, which
00:37:52
Coincides here with the railroad.
00:37:55
So to show you, this is the stream we're talking about.
00:37:57
This is about a year and a half ago, two years ago, and subsequently this stream bank has failed.
00:38:04
So it goes to show you this is a dynamic system.
00:38:06
We take a picture and the stream is moving and changing.
00:38:10
Much of what we've identified both through scientific and technical studies and through in the field site assessments point towards urban runoff and significant impervious cover in that watershed area contributing to increased
00:38:25
volumes of water moving through the system an incredible amount of stream bank erosion and sedimentation and you can see clearly from the picture with every storm event you have these basically piles of sediment moving through the system and smothering the stream floor
00:38:42
and again we've got a tremendous amount of erosion which does occasionally bring some of the healthy trees that we have in that corridor down into the stream bed so many of the sycamores and poplar trees that we recognize as good trees in that stream area are potentially going to fall in as the stream moves.
00:39:04
String restoration projects like this of this scale are major construction projects.
00:39:09
They do require the use of major heavy construction equipment.
00:39:13
There will be reshaping of banks.
00:39:16
There will be an effort to add meanders or bends to that string profile and I'll show you a little bit more of that as we move on.
00:39:24
There will be a specific effort to reconnect the stream to the floodplain, which is a natural way for water volumes and water intensity and water energy to be dissipated and managed through the natural system that you find in stream corridors.
00:39:39
What you see on the right here is what's considered a pump-around, so you can't turn the stream off when you're doing this work.
00:39:45
So new channels are constructed in dry conditions, and then once the new channel is established,
00:39:50
The flow from the active stream bed is then directed into the new stream channel.
00:39:56
There is a tremendous amount of work to do, stabilization of the stream banks, and the work is done within those areas that can be essentially, as they say, buttoned up within a work day and stabilized.
00:40:09
The construction will include the installation of what are called in-stream structures.
00:40:15
So these are often referred to as riffles and pulls, as vanes, as j-hooks.
00:40:22
These are all techniques which are used to, again, establish structure and morphology in the stream that more closely mimics and replicates what a natural stable stream would be presenting.
00:40:34
and it provides a tremendously improved habitat for the fish and other aquatic creatures in the stream.
00:40:42
As it pertains to forests and forest enhancement and buffer enhancement, there will be some tree removal primarily within those areas that the new channel will be constructed.
00:40:54
There will be some limited removal of trees that are about to fall into portions of the channel where that's likely to occur.
00:41:03
and then there will also be the removal of invasive tree species.
00:41:06
So again, many of you who are familiar with the park would recognize that there are quite a number of invasive trees in that forest system and although they may be large and mature trees, they aren't from a forest health perspective.
00:41:20
They're not your ideal tree species.
00:41:22
Forest members because they do actually out compete and take the place of your natural and healthier forests.
00:41:29
There will be a significant amount of replanting of trees especially along the buffer areas and especially within those abandoned stream channels.
00:41:39
So places where if a meander is being introduced and you have a channel left there will be some significant planting in that area.
00:41:45
I'd also point out that the conservation easement that we'll talk about in a few minutes does include very specific protective measures for the trees and the forest.
00:41:54
That's actually one of the primary goals of the conservation easement.
00:41:58
And I'd also point out that it's actually the forested condition of this corridor that made this stream project a prime candidate for the Virginia Aquatic Resources Trust Fund approval.
00:42:10
And so it is in the project's best interest to retain and enhance that forest system as best as possible.
00:42:15
and Michael
SPEAKER_05
00:42:18
With regards to permanent protection and education, as I mentioned, I showed you on the map, it's so close to Greenbrier Elementary School, it's a publicly accessible park system, there are clearly education opportunities in there, and the chance to see a stream project, a stream restoration project, be planned and take place in our backyard is actually a pretty exciting opportunity.
00:42:40
There's a lot of kids who may be able to look back at this and say, yeah, I remember when they fixed that stream versus
00:42:46
I remember when they channelized that stream or when they cut down all the trees around that stream.
00:42:53
Permanent protection of the parcels involved with the project is actually a key requirement of the funding source.
00:42:59
And so one of the tools that is commonly used to implement or establish permanent protection is a permanent conservation easement.
00:43:06
And a permanent conservation easement is a legally binding agreement that land owners voluntarily place on their property that restricts the uses of that property
00:43:16
for present and future owners.
00:43:18
And so with this type of a conservation easement, it largely prevents the introduction or the development of additional impervious surface and it largely protects the natural forested system that's there.
00:43:31
And the idea is to protect the habitat and to, in this case, when you have 3.7 million dollars being invested into an environmental improvement project, it protects that project and that project area for the, in perpetuity.
00:43:47
So quickly, here's a snapshot of the parcels.
00:43:50
It doesn't come up quite as clearly, but the green parcels are those anticipated city parcels that will be covered by the easement, and there will be other protection measures established in the other parcels.
00:44:02
T&C is the agency that will be working out those details with the property owners.
00:44:10
I'd also mention, when we look back at permanent protection, this project will be the fourth VARTA funded project that involves local government owned parcels and in each of those previous examples, the local governments voluntarily placed the conservation easements on their properties.
00:44:31
So in this case,
00:44:32
That acreage is in excess of 50 acres and to have that permanent protection in the city of Charlottesville is a pretty unique opportunity.
00:44:43
I want to show you a couple pictures here of what stream restoration looks like.
00:44:46
This is a project in Kingstown up in Northern Virginia and I think that's the Alexandria portion of Fairfax County.
00:44:53
I think that's correct.
00:44:53
So here you see before and many of you who can think about our city urban streams can imagine this picture.
00:44:59
During construction again these neanders are introduced.
00:45:03
I note the trees that are retained, the very narrow construction corridor to that stream project and then afterwards
00:45:10
Stream systems in our part of the country are very resilient and plants tend to bounce back happily.
00:45:16
Any empty space is taken over by our happy, healthy plants.
00:45:20
Donaldson Run is another project that is up in Arlington, up in Northern Virginia.
00:45:26
And the stream is, again, quite similar to Meadow Creek.
00:45:28
You see the deeper, incised banks.
00:45:31
You see the excessive vegetation that's fallen in on the stream.
00:45:34
In many cases, it's been eroded down to bedrock.
00:45:38
Again, here during construction or immediately after construction you can see the installation of these in-stream structures that provide that morphology to the stream and reduce the energy as it moves through the system.
00:45:51
Again, there's a specific effort to retain the trees along this project and then about a year after restoration you see how it bounces back.
00:46:02
And then a little closer to home, those of you who spent any time down in Azalea Park in the upper left-hand corner, that's 1998, and I believe that's the dog, dog field, dog fields.
00:46:15
But clearly, you know, if you go out to Azalea Park, you don't see these stream banks now.
00:46:20
Down on the lower left, you see during construction in 2000, a few years later, 2003, and then as recently as two weeks ago, people go to that park now
00:46:30
have no clue that there was a stream restoration project, an engineered, intensely constructed stream restoration project.
00:46:37
This one included 1200 linear feet of Morse Creek, and so again, we're talking about 8500 linear feet of Meadow Creek.
00:46:45
And this is a beautiful picture, if you want it, you can have it for your desktop.
00:46:48
I'll share the file with you, it's very beautiful.
00:46:52
Obviously we need to consider the trails and trail issues here.
00:46:56
There are trails in this corridor and they will be re-established.
00:47:00
The overarching goal here is to be consistent with the bike ped plan and to provide connectivity in this corridor.
00:47:08
The trail, as you see on the left, currently consists of a dirt path in most areas.
00:47:14
The proposed, or the replacement, the established trail will be a multi-use trail consistent with a bike plan.
00:47:22
It's anticipated to have a crushed stone surface.
00:47:25
And there are a number of other details here that you can look at, including an anticipation and an expectation that there will be primitive trails.
00:47:32
People tend to establish their own points of connection between places they want to visit.
00:47:40
and so you get a picture of what the trail could look like.
00:47:43
This is what was installed at Schenck's Greenway and obviously this is next to a road so the context is a little bit different but this is the type of trail you can anticipate.
00:47:52
And then in this project area there are opportunities to co-locate the trail with the sewer corridor and it doesn't have to be limited to that corridor but there are places where that's a very efficient use of space within the park areas.
00:48:07
and what we need to be, sorry.
00:48:13
I want to give you a quick historic view.
00:48:17
This is 1957, and again, this is specifically the stream project.
00:48:22
This is where the Cannon-Hearthway Department saw a seminar trail.
00:48:27
As you can see, there's an extensive amount of agricultural area to the north of this project, and this is where it ends up coming through Greenbrier Park.
00:48:37
and I would just note how few houses we have in 1957 and how much farmland we have and a lot of the activities that took place during this farming period did include channelizing the stream and as we move forward in time you see ongoing ag activity, a significant increase in houses I'd point out that during this time there are no trees
00:49:05
and so you can imagine if we're talking about one-off and the value of force to buffers on stream corridors now, this has contributed to the condition of the stream we see today.
00:49:14
1974, more of the same and then this is the more recent graphic.
00:49:20
Shopping center, housing complexes, schools, neighborhoods, a significantly increased forested corridor that is a relatively young forest.
00:49:30
And so you think about the age of many of these trees are quite similar to the age of the trees on the downtown mall.
00:49:37
And we see the stream still trying to find its balance based on the impacts of this land use change over the last 50 plus years.
00:49:47
I want to walk you through the components of the map you have in front of you.
00:49:50
Again, here's the main stem and some of the tributaries of Meadow Creek.
00:49:55
The green-hashed areas compromise about 11 acres of wetlands, and in some cases, the condition and the quality of the wetlands, especially in Greenbrier Park, are actually, again, very valuable natural features to protect on a permanent basis in a community or in a city.
00:50:16
Superimpose the conceptual design of the stream, and these are scientifically called Newanders, but we in previous presentations have called them Wiggles and Squiggles, and they're not arbitrary, I'll speak to that in just a minute.
00:50:31
Again, the highlighted area are the parcels that are associated with the stream restoration project, 73 acres.
00:50:40
The dash line is the current trail system, and there will be a trail system reestablished.
00:50:45
The yellow is the current Rivanna sewer interceptor.
00:50:51
and the purple here is the proposed sewer interceptor alignment.
00:50:56
So you can see in many cases where it's not in the same place it's being placed further from the stream and in many cases the proposed stream design pulls that stream and features away from the sewer line.
00:51:11
And you can also see any place where the yellow disappears is where the proposed alignment is in the exact same place as the existing alignment.
00:51:23
I'd like to also at this point just mention a few things that, as I said, the stream project has completed its conceptual phase and it's now going to move into a final design and construction phase.
00:51:34
That's a typical way for stream restoration projects to be done.
00:51:38
And that final design will be, the goal of that project is to establish a dynamically stable stream.
00:51:47
And by that, it will take into consideration and evaluate
00:51:51
And in addition to that, we are going to be working with existing geomorphology of the
00:52:06
The work will be based on and validated by very rigorous hydraulic and hydrologic models and analysis.
00:52:14
So that's a bunch of technical speak, but the reality is, the point being, this is not an arbitrary exercise.
00:52:21
This is based on scientific and technical processes.
00:52:24
To the layperson and to the person who wants to be able to enjoy this area, what you could expect are more gently,
00:52:32
Sloped strain banks with easier access to the strain, you will see improved vegetation on and near the strain banks.
00:52:40
There will be an enhanced, as I said, a slightly different pattern to the strain.
00:52:46
There will be different meanders or different wiggles introduced.
00:52:49
There will be less erosion of the stream banks so that condition is intended to be longer term.
00:52:56
The whole design is based on the current conditions of the system so it isn't anticipated that significant change will occur because of this land use change over the last 50 years.
00:53:06
It's based on what's here today.
00:53:08
Trying to establish that stability based on the inputs today.
00:53:15
I'm going to switch gears real quick and we're going to talk about the Meadow Creek sewer replacement project.
00:53:22
This is a project where Rivanna Water and Sewer Authority is the lead agency.
00:53:27
The project itself is a significantly longer project, in this case it's about four and a half miles from beginning to end.
00:53:34
The existing sewer line was built in the mid-fifties and was conveyed
00:53:40
from the city to Rivanna in 1973.
00:53:42
All of the waste that is conveyed in that sewer line currently goes to the Moores Creek treatment plant and the estimated total project cost is about $30 million.
00:53:58
The graphic here shows you the area.
00:54:01
This is also a drainage area, but it's a sewer drainage basin.
00:54:04
And you can see a large portion of the northern half of Charlottesville and some portions from the county are served by this interceptor line.
00:54:13
And there are no city dollars that would be used to extend service into the county.
00:54:20
When you draw the details behind that, this sewer project starts in the vicinity of the English Inn.
00:54:26
As I mentioned below, the 29-250 bypass runs along the same corridor we just described through Greenbrier Park, goes under the railroad track, this portion is currently in the county, and then pops eastward through the golf course and connects to the Rivanna Interceptor.
00:54:46
This is just a shot of all the variety of things that are in that drainage basin.
00:54:51
Hospitals, stores, residential areas, commercial areas, our favorite sports venues.
00:54:59
The existing pipe conveys 4-5 million gallons of wastewater daily and you can see the split sitting county.
00:55:06
There's an up-sizing of that pipe proposed.
00:55:10
The pipe currently consists of clay pipe,
00:55:14
Claire Line, Concrete Pipe and Ductile Iron and it will be replaced with an entirely ductile iron system and in those locations where it's appropriate the current line will be abandoned in place.
00:55:25
That's not to say we're going to have abandoned sewer lines crossing our streams.
00:55:28
That's specifically not the plan.
00:55:32
So we need to do, this interceptor project is necessary for a number of very important reasons.
00:55:37
Minimize sewer overflows, provide reliable capability, and address the deteriorating infrastructure.
00:55:44
I think the pictures largely speak for themselves.
00:55:47
The concern related to sewer overflows is very specific to the exposure of humans and animals to raw sewage that spills into our parks, into the streams, into the areas that people interact with,
00:56:00
and raw sewage can contain a number of nasties, bacteria, viruses, intestinal worms, airborne molds and fungus, you know, the list goes on and on and the diseases or the impacts people can experience from that may be simply a stomach ache, gastroenteritis, or it could actually span to much more severe dysentery and much more concerning infectious diseases.
00:56:30
Again, here's a shot of a number of current sewer stream conflicts in the corridor.
00:56:40
So whether that's exposed pipes, or as you see down here, this is called a headwall, that's supposed to be butted up against a stream bank, not dangling out there, and then our most recent challenge
00:56:53
is a piece of exposed pipe where the joints have actually separated and so what we can expect is more of this if we do nothing.
00:57:00
I mean that needs to become very expensive reactionary problems versus an investment in a system that's not supposed to do any of that.
00:57:10
Rivanna has had significant ongoing coordination with a number of entities and agencies including VDOT for its crossings of roadways both with the city and the Nature Conservancy as it relates specifically to a stream project.
00:57:25
City parks and recs have been specifically involved as it pertains to activities within parks and the golf course.
00:57:32
City Trails and the Rivanna Trails Foundation have been involved in this and one of the entities I haven't mentioned on here, our neighborhood development services have been involved in discussions related to site plans and permitting processes.
00:57:46
Again, it's a major construction project and the shots we've put up here happen to be the major construction related to emergency repairs on this line.
00:57:56
And you can see there from 2006, 2007,
00:58:00
There will be associated with the project, there will be the clearing of easements in order to first of all do the construction work and then subsequently to monitor and maintain the line.
00:58:13
Like the stream project, you can't turn the sewage flow off so there has to be bypass pumping and that will ensure that everybody within that service area has consistent service during the construction project.
00:58:27
I would like to again show a couple slides here of sewer
00:58:33
projects and the restoration work that's been associated with that.
00:58:37
So here you see just a couple months difference how quickly, if done right, you can get things to look back the way they should.
00:58:44
Again, a couple years apart in this case, but significant work happening close to people's homes, in backyards.
00:58:52
There's experience with doing this kind of work and then ensuring that it's stabilized and able to bounce back and again.
00:59:00
in this case a during and after construction project.
00:59:04
Again, these slides are all within the sewer interceptor area.
00:59:09
There have been specific landscape plans developed for this sewer project and they have benefited from input of some of the residents and community members who had really valuable insight on what it is that should and could happen in these sewer corridors.
00:59:25
So you see a replanting in the outer edges of that corridor that will be compatible with the string project and
00:59:33
will be, there are a number of variations of landscape plans that can allow for a scenario where you have a trail in that easement, a scenario where you don't have the trail in the easement, scenarios where it's people's backyard, people's forested areas.
00:59:47
So again, this is part of the project.
00:59:50
Essentially, the sewer project is intended to provide the community with reliable sewer service, restore the deteriorated infrastructure, minimize costly expenses, and enhance and protect environment and public health.
01:00:03
A quick snapshot of the timeline, we're on track with both projects in the near future here to finalize and tackle the easements for both projects.
01:00:12
The sole project is a much longer time period, as you saw it's a much longer project area and the intention would be for everything to be finished by Spring 2011.
01:00:24
I would like to point out also these are linear projects so even if they are
01:00:27
Six month or 15 month projects, that project is moving down the corridor so it's not all happening that duration in the same location.
01:00:35
Sewer projects, sorry, string projects typically go at a rate of about 100 linear feet per day and sewer projects occur at about 40 to 60 linear feet per day.
01:00:46
You can imagine that it's the infrastructure and some of the other logistics associated with it that slow that down.
01:00:53
We anticipate a number of issues for coordination, access, traffic patterns, notification of the community about particular issues, work hours, the management and enhancement of vegetation, and then some trail and park closures.
01:01:10
In this slide, again, you can read this for yourself, but the bottom line or the takeaway is that we have a very important community sewer system that runs in a stream corridor that also happens to include parkland.
01:01:24
And it's a very old system that's going to continue to deteriorate and it's going to continue to present us with failures and overflows.
01:01:32
We also have a stream that's going to continue to migrate and try to find a stable condition and will continue to have significant erosion.
01:01:42
So we have a unique opportunity here to tackle both projects and to ensure that in the end we have safe water out of sewer service and a healthier stream system.
01:01:53
Again, it's not typical for these two projects to happen at the same time so the fact that both project members and project teams have been able to work together from the get-go, we've been able to provide insight to each other's respective projects and we've worked together to ensure compatibility of those designs as they currently are.
01:02:11
There have been some meetings with neighborhoods and presentations.
01:02:15
There have been project websites and here are the current active links from both the city and Rivanna and some project update mailings.
01:02:25
Going forward, because there's a huge amount of ongoing communication that's necessary, there's going to be specific language in the contracts to address the contractor's involvement with public education and outreach.
01:02:36
There will be an obligated coordination between the contractors and ongoing involvement of appropriate stakeholders.
01:02:43
The websites will be kept up to date.
01:02:45
The mailings will continue.
01:02:47
There will be public information sessions at key project milestones.
01:02:52
There will be regular meetings of the project team representatives to make sure that that communication and collaboration continues.
01:02:58
And all of the project teams have committed to field questions about projects in this corridor, so there won't be any kind of passing of the question back.
01:03:09
And that is where I'd like to turn it over to Lauren to speak about this Rivanna easements.
SPEAKER_23
01:03:31
Specifically, I'm going to talk about the easements.
01:03:35
I'm not going to flip through any more slides, so if you would like to reference some of the materials in your packages, you're welcome to go back and then I can also answer questions.
01:03:49
We'll leave this slide up there, though.
01:04:05
Rivanna has requested five easements from the city because their project is greater than 20,000 million feet it does and the city owns quite a few parcels along this corridor.
01:04:20
There are five different easements that Rivanna has requested.
01:04:24
Specifically, the city owns a passive park called Meadow Creek Gardens, which is at
01:04:31
Earhart near the 250 Bypass near the English Inn.
01:04:38
Then it also crosses Greenbrier Park.
01:04:41
It also crosses a small piece of property of land that we own near Melbourne Road and a piece of property that the land near Charlottesville High School Stadium.
01:04:53
and then of course Penn Park which is on the lower reaches of the interceptor as it ends and connects into the Rivanna interceptor.
01:05:05
Specifically, the easements are pretty consistent in that there's a request for a permanent and temporary easement on all of those parcels except for Melbourne Road.
01:05:19
There's only a permanent easement because it's just a small little sliver along Melbourne Road.
01:05:25
There's also access easements for Urbana only, not the contractor across the easement for Melbourne Road, Penn Park, and Greenbrier Park also asked for some access easements for Urbana so that then they can access the sewer line and it's specified so they don't necessarily have to cross through multiple pieces of property that people own.
01:05:50
In addition, I'd like to also note, when we were in discussions about the Rivanna request for Shanks Branch, you folks asked for certain language regarding landscaping being incorporated in those easements.
01:06:03
That same language is also incorporated in these easements.
01:06:07
And that has been reviewed by Rivanna's attorney with our city attorney.
01:06:16
I'd like to also comment that, in general, where the new locations of the sewer line are across city property, they are in the same alignment as the existing sewer line.
01:06:33
For example, as it may exit the property and you've got the 250 bypass right next door, it makes a slight adjustment as it exits the property in order to accommodate the construction and their proper alignment for their bore under the 250 bypass.
01:06:50
Similarly, as it exits Greenbrier Park,
01:06:54
it will cross under the Norfolk Southern Railway, so there's a slight adjustment in the alignment from the existing to the new alignment to accommodate that new bore where Norfolk Southern requested it.
01:07:08
In addition, as it also exits the Melbourne Road piece, it does a slight alignment adjustment in order to accommodate that bore under Melbourne Road.
01:07:21
The only other adjustments are Penn Park, there was a really dramatic jog in the sewer line through Penn Park which they've eliminated so there is that adjustment through Penn Park and from the old alignment and I might also note
01:07:40
There's an adjustment behind the Charlottesville High School currently.
01:07:44
The sewer line is in very close proximity with a manhole pretty much in the creek and it does adjust for greater separation away from the Meadow Creek stream.
01:08:00
Crystal has really done a really good overview of the landscaping plan and the maintenance of this.
01:08:08
I cannot emphasize enough that Rivanna has had some issues in recent years and this line is in great need of replacement.
01:08:19
I'll be available for any questions and Tom's also here if you've got any.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
01:08:27
Thank you very much.
01:08:30
I really appreciate your presentations.
01:08:32
I think the presentation tonight really benefited from bringing these two projects together.
01:08:39
Originally we were going to have separate presentations on stream restoration on the sewer project and based on
01:08:49
Any questions on this presentation before we open up the public hearing?
01:09:18
Okay, we will now open the public hearing and only one person has signed up or others will certainly be allowed to speak.
01:09:24
The first person who signed up to speak is Linda Sino.
SPEAKER_20
01:09:38
Good evening Mr. Mayor, Members of Council and Mr. Watts.
01:09:42
I'm Linda Seaman.
01:09:43
I live at 2010 Greenbrier Drive in the city and I'm speaking this evening on behalf of the Greenbrier Neighborhood Association.
01:09:51
The Greenbrier Neighborhood Association deeply appreciates the careful planning that has gone into the Meadow Creek
01:09:58
Sur, Interceptor Project, and the Meadow Creek Stream Restoration Project.
01:10:03
As you know, these are very significant projects.
01:10:06
They affect many private landowners in Greenbrier Park, the city's preeminent natural area.
01:10:13
As you move forward to grant easements for these projects, we ask that you continue to keep a watchful eye
01:10:21
that all possible care is taken by the contractors in this environmentally sensitive area.
01:10:27
We hope that both projects can be accomplished together to minimize disruption and degradation.
01:10:34
Further, we would like to have a single project manager whose job would be to keep a close watch on the contractors to be certain that they are taking the greatest care to minimize the impact on Meadow Creek and the wetlands and the surrounding neighborhood.
01:10:49
The project manager should be a single point of contact for the neighbors as this project proceeds.
01:10:56
It's important to us that there be an open, accessible avenue of communication between neighbors, the contractors and public officials to deal with the inevitable issues that will arise, and they certainly will.
01:11:09
In keeping with your Arbor Day proclamation earlier this evening,
01:11:13
The neighborhood is especially concerned about the loss of trees in the natural area.
01:11:19
It's been suggested and tossed around a couple of times that a group in the neighborhood be allowed to walk through the outer 10 feet of the easement to identify and mark trees for possible saving.
01:11:32
We ask that you do everything within your power to retain as many trees as possible and to take every precaution not to harm the trees that remain.
01:11:43
Greenbrier Park is certainly one of Charlottesville's treasures and we hope you will treat it with great care and thank you for all of the care you've taken already on these projects.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
01:11:52
Thank you, Ms.
01:11:53
Seaman.
01:11:54
Is there anybody else from the public?
SPEAKER_17
01:12:01
Carlot Hall, 101 Robertson Lane.
01:12:04
As a member of the Alliance of Neighborhoods, I would just like to remind the council that the Alliance of Neighborhoods considers this such an important project that we actually held a public forum last year on this project.
01:12:22
this particular project.
01:12:26
And also to remind the council that although Greenbrier has brought to the attention of the public multiple times, this project is also going to be going through other neighborhoods as well and due consideration must be given to those neighborhoods as well concerning everything that is applicable to Greenbrier is also applicable to those folks.
01:12:48
Thank you.
SPEAKER_14
01:12:50
Thank you, Ms. Hall.
01:12:51
Ms. McLean.
SPEAKER_08
01:13:01
Good evening.
01:13:02
I'm Peter Kleeman.
01:13:03
I live at 407 Head Street in the city.
01:13:07
And I recognize there's a number of acres of city land that's being transferred for this easement, some of which is to be a permanent easement, some to be temporary, and various other easements.
01:13:20
and I would like to recommend that as council considers these easements and the deed of easements that they explicitly state the nature of the transfer of this land from the city to Rivanna Water and Sewer Authority.
01:13:34
In the last transfer of deed of transfer of easements associated with the McIntyre Road Extended Project,
01:13:44
There was the same language used that says that this is being transferred and there's one dollar or another good and valuable compensation for the right to use this land.
01:13:56
And I went to the city attorney and asked, is this a sale?
01:13:59
Has this land been, has this right been sold to the, to the Art, Red Island Water and Sewer Authority?
01:14:07
And
01:14:09
I never did find out whether this was a sale or not and I was told that this is a matter of legal opinion because it's not clearly stated in the document.
01:14:20
whether this has been sold, leased, granted, given, or whatever other options might exist.
01:14:27
So as a person interested in open government, and I know that you are also interested in open government, I think it would be a great opportunity to clarify how land owned by the city is being distributed to other uses
01:14:42
and would recommend that it is in fact a sale of rights that it state that this is a sale and not a transfer in return for one dollar and other good and valuable compensation.
01:14:56
Also, it would be interesting to know what that other good and valuable compensation is and whether that's going to show up in our rates for water and sewer authority charges and not that it makes one difference whether it's, you know,
01:15:08
I just would like to clarify the issue so that we know what kind of transfers are taking place
01:15:26
Based on my experience with some of these other easement issues, I recognize that there are differences in the way the council would have to authorize sale of city land or rights to city land versus other sorts of transfers.
01:15:38
And I don't think that's a controversial issue in this case, whether it requires three or four councilors.
01:15:43
and I would like to see a kind of a precedent set that when the city does transfer land that the citizen may know what the nature of those transfers are.
01:15:53
Thank you very much for your attention.
01:15:54
Thank you.
01:15:56
Mr. Foltz?
SPEAKER_13
01:16:06
John Foltz, 1503 Rugby Road,
01:16:10
The restoration of Meadow Creek is one of the most exciting things I've seen.
01:16:14
My wife and I have often gone down there.
01:16:16
This would really be a marvelous project.
01:16:23
It's sort of connected with the sewer.
01:16:26
The sewer probably has to be replaced, but we're also enlarging it.
01:16:29
We're increasing the capacity of it.
01:16:33
And things tend to be connected.
01:16:35
And one of the big connections is
01:16:38
This will allow Albemarle Square to be developed on hydraulic in Route 29.
01:16:45
And so while we're getting a great park, we're getting an awful traffic mess.
01:16:52
Because there won't be any roads to the west, the county has said, they're all set, they don't have to handle it.
01:17:02
Ms. Edwards, I'm not only on budget, I'm also on traffic.
01:17:05
I do a lot with that.
01:17:07
Just to clarify.
01:17:09
And, you know, think.
01:17:13
There's some connections going on here, some very wonderful connections, and some pretty frightening connections.
01:17:21
Do you really want to enlarge the pipe?
01:17:26
Think about it.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
01:17:27
Thank you.
01:17:28
Thank you, Mr. Fox.
01:17:29
Anybody else like to speak?
01:17:30
Ms. Mooney?
SPEAKER_04
01:17:35
My name is Betty Mooney and I live at 201 Sunset Avenue and I noticed on one of the slides it said that 60% of this is currently used by this city I believe and 40% by the county but I didn't see a slide telling me what the new usage is going to be and I'd like to see that new usage and I agree with Mr. Faltz that the enlargement that I see happening is for the county
01:17:59
So I like to see a breakdown of if we didn't enlarge this pipe and if we didn't replace this pipe and we just repaired this pipe, what would that cost, keeping it at the present size?
01:18:11
Because I feel the same with a water plan, that that is all we should be paying.
01:18:16
The city should not be paying for county growth, for county traffic, for enlarging pipes for the county.
01:18:25
And that's, I continually question who on this council, when Mr. Taliaferro is gone, is going to ask those questions and protect the city.
01:18:33
I want to see someone, I always depended on Mr. Taliaferro to always say,
01:18:38
We have got to protect the city.
01:18:41
This isn't about the county.
01:18:42
I want to see other councilors here letting me know that that's in the top of their minds.
01:18:49
And so is this pipe, this enlargement, what would be the difference in cost if we didn't enlarge it, if we simply repaired it, and if we're going to enlarge it and replace it with a new pipe, I want to see the county paying for that.
01:19:02
Thank you.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
01:19:03
Thank you.
01:19:03
Ms. Mooney, anybody else like to speak?
01:19:06
We'll now close the public hearing and open it up for discussion, responses.
01:19:16
I'll start with one of the pieces that was not covered in the presentation.
01:19:21
I directly related to the point that Mr. Faltz and Ms. Mooney just raised about how the costs will be allocated and that's a point of ongoing discussion.
01:19:31
We have made it very clear that the city will not pay a single dime for expansion
01:19:37
of the sewer system that's related to growth in Albemarle County and that's been our position for quite some time and we've communicated that very clearly to our city attorney and our public voice director who are in those negotiations and the cost allocation will come back for a public discussion and a public vote and so you'll be able to see for yourself and have public input into that decision but we fully agree.
01:20:08
Let's see.
01:20:10
I would like to ask our city attorney to comment on Mr. Kleeman's remark about the nature of the transfer.
01:20:18
I know we went through this with the Shanks Branch sewer pipe and I understand your position is that whether or not it meets the conditions of a sale is a matter of interpretation, but maybe you could comment on
01:20:38
Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_01
01:20:43
In terms of the underlying legal issue, which I think was alluded to, which is a sale triggers a supermajority voting requirement under the Virginia Constitution, I would have a different perspective.
01:20:58
I don't think putting the word sale into this document
01:21:01
automatically triggers that constitutional requirement.
01:21:05
I think a court will look at what is being conveyed rather than the fact of consideration for it.
01:21:17
If counsel desires changes in the language, I can certainly take that up with Rivanna's attorney.
01:21:23
This is
01:21:24
an easement between the city and the Rivanna Water and Sewer Authority.
01:21:32
For transparency purposes, the city is not seeking compensation for these easements.
01:21:39
This is a conveyance of an easement without money changing hands.
01:21:43
I think it would be fair to look on it as a donation of the easement.
01:21:48
I'll be glad to try to explain further if you need any further clarification.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
01:21:55
That's fine.
01:21:56
Thank you, Mr. Brown.
01:21:57
And I would just also comment on Ms.
01:21:59
Seaman's point about
01:22:02
ensuring ongoing communication, very clear communication with residents having clear points of contact for residents.
01:22:09
I think you've made that point before and I would reiterate the importance of clear channels of communication with the affected stakeholders.
01:22:19
and I like the idea of having residents from the neighborhood accompanying the project staff to identify trees that have value to the neighborhood and understanding that we may not be able to save every one of them but certainly do our best and I hope we'll take those neighborhood residents up on that offer.
01:22:38
Any other comments?
David Brown
Member, City Council
01:22:42
I'll just make a comment that I do think that the restoration of Metta Creek is a remarkable project.
01:22:48
I think our staff and the Nature Conservancy should be thanked for really making this happen.
01:22:54
I mean, it's on a very large scale.
Holly Edwards
Member, City Council
01:23:01
I just wanted to know, just by virtue of
01:23:06
Some of the buzzwords during the presentation.
01:23:09
This is a major construction project that's going to require a tremendous amount of work.
01:23:15
There's going to be significant planting, significant replanting of trees.
01:23:22
What are the opportunities to have local workforce development as part of the core
01:23:31
project purpose, and is there an opportunity to have that as part of the RFPs, the business construction, to have as much local involvement, even with the opportunity to have the replacement of trees and plants if there's a local nursery that we could
01:23:53
to do business with or start thinking about how we can invest in our community as we're going along with this project.
01:24:00
Because if this is a once-in-a-lifetime project, I'm going to take advantage of many opportunities along the way because I appreciate the
01:24:12
The comments that Ms. Hall made about the Greenbrier neighborhood has been the most involved but it will affect a lot of neighborhoods through the city.
01:24:22
What will be the workforce opportunities for the entire city because this will have an impact overall.
SPEAKER_12
01:24:38
Council Edwards, we've talked a little bit about that issue in particular.
01:24:46
I think along the lines of our efforts with the Downtown Law Project, I think we would spend some time
01:24:55
before, I'd say probably before you vote on it, to have a more thorough plan on how to address workforce development issues.
01:25:04
We would like to try to model something after what we did with the Downtown Mall, but we need a little more time to address that.
01:25:12
When you're talking about two different projects, it's a little more difficult to figure it out, so we do need a little more time to address those issues.
01:25:21
I think we have a couple of weeks to do that and we'll bring that before you next time around as to what our options are for addressing those issues.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
01:25:32
We have before us tonight two items, action items relating to this presentation.
01:25:37
First is an ordinance granting easement to RWSA for the Meadow Creek Sewer Interceptor Project.
01:25:43
It's before us first of two meetings.
01:25:45
And secondly is a resolution endorsing the concept of conservation easements to the Nature Conservancy for the stream restoration project, which is before us on the first of one meeting.
01:25:56
Is there a motion to approve?
01:25:59
We'll start with the ordinance.
01:26:00
Is there a motion to approve the ordinance?
01:26:03
I'll so move.
01:26:04
It's been moved.
01:26:05
Is there a second?
01:26:05
So that carries forward to our next meeting for second reading.
01:26:09
And is there a motion to approve the resolution on the conservation easements?
SPEAKER_19
01:26:14
So moved.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
01:26:15
It's been moved.
01:26:15
Is there a second?
01:26:17
Second.
01:26:17
Any further discussion on that item?
01:26:19
Otherwise, please indicate your vote.
01:26:23
Thank you very much.
01:26:25
Thank you all again for all your hard work on this project.
01:26:31
Next we're going to shift gears and talk about fiscal affairs of the city.
01:26:36
And first we're going to hear a report relating to, I don't know if Ms. Bullard, if you heard that we've switched around.
01:26:44
Okay.
01:26:45
So we're going to start with a report, fiscal year 2011 budget guidelines and long-term financial forecast, followed by public hearing and appropriation from fiscal year 2009 year-end appropriations, of course, and first of two meetings.
01:27:00
And here to present is Leslie Beauregard, our budget director.
01:27:05
Take it away.
01:27:06
Do you need us?
SPEAKER_03
01:27:07
Yeah, we have a PowerPoint, so if you don't mind moving down, that'd be great.
01:27:43
Okay, thanks.
01:27:44
Good evening, everyone.
01:27:46
Can everybody hear me?
01:27:46
Let me just say I'm thrilled that it's budget season.
01:27:49
I heard a comment earlier about that, so this is the best time of year.
01:27:54
But we are here tonight to talk about, we're going to give a short update on where we are with the current fiscal year, 2010, and then we're going to move right into 11, which is the year we're starting to plan for, and then we try to project out for five years, and we'll talk briefly about that.
01:28:11
But let me just, here's our presentation tonight.
01:28:14
We have, I just said the revenues, the 11th process, and then we're going to, this is always the evening we present the guidelines, the budget guidelines for fiscal year 2011.
01:28:25
Then we look at the dates for budget work sessions and our budget form.
01:28:29
And then we actually have a new work session this year that we're going to do in December
01:28:34
to help acclimate our new counselor and to get some pre-budget feedback from city council.
01:28:40
So as details on that become evident, we will be sending that out and that will be just like the regular budget work sessions that are in March and April.
01:28:50
But before I begin, I just want to brag for a second.
01:28:53
The city again has won the GFLA Distinguished Budget Presentation Award, which is something we have to apply for every year.
01:29:02
This is for the 2010 budget that we're in right now.
01:29:06
There are four areas.
01:29:08
and you either get outstanding or proficient in these areas to get this award and we have actually done better this year than any other year so we are constantly improving our budget and how we present it and the information that's in it so we're really proud of that and when we get the official plaque we'll be back before council to actually receive the award so that's kind of a neat thing so I just wanted to brag about that for a minute
01:29:36
So 2010, which we are now even halfway into the fiscal year, and I don't have the best of news actually in revenues, but I don't think that should come as a surprise to anybody in the room if you watch the news or hear what's going on in the state or with other localities.
01:29:52
We're in the same boat, basically.
01:29:57
so I'm just going to the other half of that is we just finished out fiscal year 2009 which Mr. Ray is going to preview for everybody next when you have a new base to start with you actually have to adjust your assumptions as well so that's part of the picture also and we have a revenue team that meets monthly that goes over all the revenue so we keep well abreast of what's going on but here's just a few charts this is real estate tax revenue obviously
01:30:26
and right, Mr. Ray will talk about this more than an 09, we just made budget barely and 10, we're expecting the same thing revenues are basically flat and as you can see as you go into the out years we're really not projecting much of an increase at all in real estate tax revenue and actually for 11 right now we're projecting a 1% increase in residential but a 5% decrease in commercial so we'll see even more of a dramatic effect in 11
01:30:58
Personal property tax revenue, much the same story.
01:31:01
This is actually down about $73,000 for this current fiscal year.
01:31:07
And again, you can see they really didn't start picking up again until 14, until 13 and 14.
01:31:20
Sales tax, again, anything you read about the state, you're seeing these similar trends.
01:31:26
For fiscal year 2009, which we just finished, we were down $900,000 in sales tax revenue receipts.
01:31:33
For 2010, right now, we expect to see about a $625,000 shortfall, which is not quite the loss we saw in 2009, but nonetheless, it continues that downward trend.
01:31:46
that we have to accommodate for and we really ought to start picking up again to where we were in 2007 until 2015.
01:31:55
This is kind of the one bright light and again if Mr. Ray had gone first he would have explained this but I'll quickly explain this that we had a kind of a bump in revenues for 9 that was an assessment that was captured we were able to receive 1.2 million in additional revenue for 09 that we did not expect again but that was one time we will see the base increase in future years that we're still looking the base is going to be around between 200 and 400 thousand that we'll see
01:32:24
So while BPOL does, you see, we actually have spiked up quite a bit.
01:32:27
You can see it jumps back down and levels out for 10 and future fiscal years.
01:32:36
Reals and lodging tax, much the same story as the sales and use tax.
01:32:40
These continue to dip.
01:32:42
For both of these sources, we expect to see a shortfall of about $495,000 in the current fiscal year.
01:32:54
So, in terms of this current year, you can see I've just kind of put some numbers up here.
01:32:59
The adopted budget was $143.4 million.
01:33:02
Revised budget, we're looking at $140.3 million.
01:33:06
So already for this year, when you take all those major revenue sources, plus other local sources, plus the state reductions that we're seeing, which is about $550,000, we're looking at a $2.1 million shortfall.
01:33:20
And this is actually information as of today.
01:33:22
That's how quickly it changes.
01:33:27
are some of the strategies.
01:33:29
Well, if you remember, when council adopted the 2010 budget, they also, in their great wisdom, put in place an economic downturn fund, which is a reserve.
01:33:41
We knew, entering the fiscal year, that we might face this problem.
01:33:46
We were as conservative as possible.
01:33:48
I mean, without having a crystal ball, it's impossible to know where the economy is going.
01:33:52
I've talked to people who've done this for 30 years and they've never seen anything like the trends we're seeing now.
01:33:57
So they set aside 2.8 million.
01:33:59
We've already used 2.1 and we're not even in six months into the year yet.
01:34:05
So like I said, we meet monthly, but if we continue to see this downward trend, we're going to have to probably move into some other strategies.
01:34:13
such as departmental expenditure reductions, beginning to freeze vacancies, slow down and delay spending.
01:34:19
And we're already looking at those things right now.
01:34:21
We're tracking expenditures carefully.
01:34:24
Right now, nothing that I've seen indicates that expenditures are way out of line with what they should be.
01:34:30
But if we start to see that we need to decrease those budgets, then we're going to have to do some active action accordingly.
01:34:36
And it's better to start thinking about that now rather than next April when we've only got three years left for the fiscal year.
01:34:43
So that's 10.
01:34:44
So now, on top of that, put the 2011 budget process, which we're just starting to plan right now.
01:34:52
And here's where we are.
01:34:53
In the agenda packet, you saw the work plan.
01:34:58
That's our budget office work plan.
01:34:59
It's probably about 12 months of work now.
01:35:02
Budget never ends.
01:35:04
Our citizen budget survey is out, so if you haven't completed that, please either go online or look for it in city notes.
01:35:10
we are presenting our proposed capital budget to the Planning Commission at the work session and in December at their meeting that will be the public hearing for that and the formal presentation we've actually started receiving the department budget request and we're going to be meeting with them between now and December and then we've also got some proposed dates for the work sessions and the community budget form which we moved from Saturday to Wednesday last year and we think we're going to try that Wednesday evening again
01:35:40
At least that's what we're suggesting.
01:35:45
So basically with the retail departments, we told them to submit flat, very, very low budgets.
01:35:52
no new request unless they're offset completely by an expenditure reduction or new revenues which I haven't seen any of those yet so I don't expect to see a lot of those outside agencies should expect flat funding they actually sent a letter to the agencies back in August when they received the applications similar to the letter we sent the previous year telling them to expect this and then schools will receive
01:36:17
40% of the new revised real estate and personal private tax revenue, which is actually negative.
01:36:22
If we keep at this target, which we have done in the past, they will actually receive less money from us, to the tune of about $50,000.
01:36:31
So when you look at our financial forecast,
01:36:43
We have to think of a couple of things.
01:36:45
One, I mentioned this a couple of times, we do have a revenue team that meets monthly.
01:36:48
It's made up of many different departments that do revenue estimates.
01:36:53
We get things from them and then we talk about it for a while and it's been a great benefit because we meet all year.
01:37:00
I mentioned the real estate assessment only.
01:37:03
We do not have a final assessment yet.
01:37:06
We'll have that at the end of the year.
01:37:07
I already mentioned that we're looking at ways not only to deal with the 10 budget, but as you'll see in a moment, we do have a gap going into 11 that we're gonna have to close.
01:37:17
We always have to have a balanced budget when we present in February.
01:37:20
So we're obviously starting to look at ways to do that.
01:37:24
And again, I mentioned before, we have people that have done this for decades, haven't seen these trends ever.
01:37:30
It's been a very, very difficult year, couple of years actually to determine where exactly the economy is going and when it might start picking up again.
SPEAKER_04
01:37:38
So here's a graph and I'm just going to talk through this quickly.
SPEAKER_03
01:37:44
we're going to see the five year forecast and as you can see the gap gets wider as you get out to 2015 but basically when you see the 10 budget revised we remain balanced and I already explained how that is but then when you get to 11 that gap there is about 2.8 million dollars and I'm going to talk through a little bit
01:38:07
Again, I already mentioned the real estate revenue.
01:38:11
I mentioned that we're looking at possibly 1% growth in residential, but a 5% decrease in commercial.
01:38:16
So that's affecting our revenue estimates in that area.
01:38:20
City County revenue sharing, we received the figure from that.
01:38:22
We're going to receive about $18.4 million, which is just a couple of hundred thousand more than what we've received this year.
01:38:30
Sales and use of meals tax, again, since we've seen all these revenues turned down, we've had to adjust our base accordingly, so all those revenues are continuing.
01:38:41
While we've bumped them up slightly for 11, they're still at a lower base than they've been before.
01:38:46
This is license tags, this is kind of the one positive that you might see in the FY11 budget, given the situation that I explained earlier.
01:38:54
Here's a lodging, similar to sales and use, while we bump them up slightly in 11.
01:38:59
All these are kind of guesses.
01:39:01
They might get bumped back down, it may not be conservative enough.
01:39:04
Again, we're going to be kind of figuring all that out in the next couple of months.
01:39:11
Lastly is intergovernmental revenue, which is the state side, and we already know that for this current year, the state has reduced us by about $550,000.
01:39:21
We have no idea where 11 is going to go.
01:39:23
We also know that the schools are going to be in need.
01:39:28
They're also being reduced by the state.
01:39:30
Their estimate right now is about 2.3 million and 11.
01:39:34
So you put them on top of the 2.8 million, which is a completely different number than the schools.
01:39:39
We have a pretty large gap to deal with between the city and the schools going into the next fiscal year.
01:39:44
The Governor's budget comes out on December 18th, so we'll have a better impact of what 11 is going to do for the state side after that.
01:39:56
On the expenditure side for the financial forecast, we know more about 11 obviously as we're going into this and we kind of make some broad assumptions going out from there.
01:40:05
I mentioned the contribution to schools because of the target formula is based on 40% of the new real estate and personal property tax money.
01:40:12
Those are both negative.
01:40:13
They're not growing in 11 from 10 to 11, so they will actually receive less local money from us.
01:40:20
Retirement cost for the general fund we're projecting right now an increase of a million dollars and that was mostly due to the increase in our rates and the fund performance back from 2009 which wasn't so great.
01:40:33
Outside agencies, I already mentioned these.
01:40:36
We might have some small increases.
01:40:39
We just renewed our SPCA contracts so we know there will be an increase there but in general we can expect outside agencies to expect flat funding from the city.
01:40:51
general fund contribution to the capital budget it's about a 2.6% increase which is the same number that was in the plan this time last year so we've not changed it although the CIP numbers have changed we've maintained that general fund contribution debt service fund which is the money we use to pay our debt when we go out in the bond market that has a 3% increase because we did increase our bonds in the CIP for the next year
SPEAKER_06
01:41:18
Then also I mentioned earlier the economic downturn fund.
SPEAKER_03
01:41:21
We're also continuing that into the 11th budget and future year's budget.
01:41:26
With the contingency that, that will continue until revenues begin to turn the other way, which is from a negative to a positive.
01:41:33
And obviously that will allow council and the city some flexibility in those areas.
01:41:45
These are City Council's strategic vision priorities, which I'm sure everybody in here has seen.
01:41:49
Again, we'll be using these to kind of drive our budget decisions.
01:41:56
We'll also be moving on December 3rd, which we hope at that time Council will give us some priority areas as to where they'd like to see the budget dollars go for 2011.
01:42:11
This next part are just the budget guidelines.
01:42:14
These really did not change for the most part.
01:42:16
I'll just go through them really quickly.
01:42:19
These again are up on the website if you really want to study them and they're also in the budget document.
01:42:32
I'm going to say one that we changed as we get to the end.
01:42:37
had to do with the economic downturn fund which is basically number 14.
01:42:43
Last year we worded it to set it up to get it established.
01:42:46
This year we've reworded it, like I just said, to maintain that until the revenue is stabilized and then council can make some decisions as to how they want to direct those dollars.
01:43:01
And these are the long-term financial guidelines.
01:43:03
They're sure a little bit different from the budget guidelines.
01:43:04
These typically don't change.
01:43:11
But the MOS is very important.
01:43:12
Our rating agencies take this very seriously.
01:43:16
One of the reasons we have our AAA bond rating is that we do indeed budget based on the maintenance of these long-term financial policies and financial guidelines.
01:43:28
So here's your timeline.
01:43:29
Some of this has already happened.
01:43:32
Sydney Notes, as I mentioned, is out with the budget survey.
01:43:35
On November 24th, which is next week, we go to the Planning Commission to present the proposed CIP for the first time.
01:43:42
And December 8th is the public hearing for that and the formal presentation.
01:43:49
Then you kind of skip ahead a couple of months.
01:43:51
Well, I should have been on here December 3rd.
01:43:53
Excuse me, I missed that.
01:43:54
December 3rd is the budget work session, 5 to 7 p.m. Like I said, there will be more information on the website.
01:44:01
February 12th is when the official budget is made public and given to council.
01:44:06
And then these are the suggested dates of the work session and the community budget form and the public hearings.
01:44:14
So March 1st is the council meeting, which this is all formally presented as the city manager's proposed budget.
01:44:21
And then April, we have our second first reading, second public hearing, a final work session, which we have, sometimes we have, sometimes we don't.
01:44:30
And the 13th is budget adoption and the final reading.
01:44:35
And that will be a special meeting.
01:44:38
So we need to go back to the December 3rd budget work session.
01:44:41
It's kind of a setting and agenda, a proposed agenda.
01:44:45
We wanted to start out by talking about strong financial management.
01:44:48
We're actually going to have our financial advisor come to town to talk about the importance of the Triple-A Bond Rating and any agency issues and concerns as we go into the next year's budget that we need to be wary of as we're planning for how the dollars are going to be spent.
01:45:01
We can go over the long term forecasts again.
01:45:04
At that point we can either adopt the budget guidelines tonight or wait until this session to do that and then talk about council budget priorities as we enter into the next fiscal year.
01:45:19
Everything you'd ever want to know about budget and more is on our website and we've actually put all this information plus this PowerPoint on there as we start to plan for 11 budgets.
01:45:30
And all the historical information's been updated so if you're a budget junkie I encourage you to go on there and check all that out.
01:45:39
And that is our presentation.
01:45:40
I'll be happy to answer questions.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
01:46:04
Thank you, Ms. Beaubourne.
01:46:05
Questions for Ms. Beaubourne?
01:46:15
All good?
01:46:15
I guess you've answered them all.
SPEAKER_14
01:46:17
Well, there you go.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
01:46:19
Appreciate your thoroughness.
01:46:20
I know we have a lot of work ahead of us and I look forward to your leadership in that endeavor.
SPEAKER_03
01:46:26
I would only ask that if we leave here with no questions tonight that you think about the December 3rd work session and get me and Gary some feedback.
01:46:35
If that agenda is fine with you, then that's just let me know and then we can proceed.
01:46:40
I know the financial items are definitely coming, so that's definitely part of the agenda, but the other things are up for discussion.
01:46:46
But we just kind of did what we thought made sense.
01:46:49
And we'll also like some feedback from Kristen as well, and she has a minute to review that.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
01:46:55
I have one question as a segue to our next presentation because the question has already been asked of me and I'm sure will be asked of us.
01:47:06
Given what we have heard tonight about the projected hole in our budget in coming years and given the fact that we realized a fairly substantial surplus at the end of last year,
01:47:20
The question will be asked, and has been asked, why don't we use those surplus dollars from last year to help plug the hole in our budget next year?
01:47:29
Can you explain the rationale?
01:47:31
I know the answer, but can you...
SPEAKER_03
01:47:33
Well, surplus dollars are one time, and it would not be a good financial practice or policy to use those to plug an operating budget hole.
01:47:42
There is an option, and that will be presented by Mr. Ray.
01:47:45
If you would like to plug into the capital budget, that is certainly an option, which is one time, so that's completely acceptable.
01:47:53
But anything beyond that would be not a great thing to do.
01:47:56
So that is the short answer to that.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
01:48:00
Okay, well thank you again Ms. Barbara Hood.
SPEAKER_03
01:48:02
Hey, thank you.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
01:48:03
And I'm here to present on the FY09 year end is Bernard Roy, our Finance Director.
SPEAKER_16
01:48:11
Take it away.
01:48:13
Mr. Mayor, members of the City Council, I will comment on your last question.
01:48:19
She was exactly right.
01:48:20
You do not want to use one-time money for an ongoing budget.
01:48:23
I guess the consideration could be is to put it in a reserve just in case it really goes
01:48:31
but the administration is recommending that we go through the CIP.
01:48:36
Mr. Mayor, members of the City Council, we didn't have a deficit and a lot of localities are faced nowadays with the economic downturn.
01:48:45
Every year we come and we talk about the year-end closing and this is really the last official action to close the books for the year.
01:48:54
and after we make appropriations and transfers based on year-end balances, we're recommending that the $1.7 million be put into the CFP for future programming.
01:49:04
It's always better to spend cash than it is to use a credit card and the credit card would be buying bonds in this case.
01:49:13
Now how did we get there, I guess is the question.
01:49:16
Revenues actually came in $254,000 over budget.
01:49:19
And when you're talking about a $140 million budget, that's awfully, awfully close.
01:49:26
So we're very proud that we kept that close to revenues in this year.
01:49:29
But in order to do that, as the budget director alluded to, we had a one-time revenue windfall of $1.2 million by the Commission of Revenue going out and doing audits and picking up those dollars.
01:49:42
If it hadn't have been for that, we would have actually had a revenue deficit of an underbudget by a million dollars.
01:49:49
Real estate taxes actually exceeded budget by $73,000, which was very good.
01:49:56
Sales taxes were under budget by $911,000, which was a 6.2% decrease from last year's actual.
01:50:04
When we're looking at the current forecast, we are about 3.9% behind last year's actual, so 3.9% behind a much lower base than the year before.
01:50:16
Mills taxes were on the budget by $500,000 or a 3.3% decline from last year's actual.
01:50:23
When we're looking at the last forecast, we are almost dead on the same as the first four months of this year, which is a positive sign, but you remember we're still looking at a much smaller base.
01:50:37
Loging taxes, $400,000 less than budget last year, or 7.7%.
01:50:42
When we're looking at the current forecast for the first four months, we are, there again, basically the same as the first four months of last year.
01:50:51
We don't want to say we've got a trend that's starting to edge up because, you know, things could change a little dramatically, but at least over the last couple of months, there's some good news for a change that we see, the better news than we've seen in the last probably 18 months, was these tax sources.
01:51:06
business license taxes, which really helped us this year, it was $1.4 million, $1.5 million over budget, and a million two of that was basically the one-time revenue source due to the audit.
01:51:18
Can you...
David Brown
Member, City Council
01:51:20
Yes, sir.
01:51:22
I think, you know, some, I know we've spoken about this individually, but I think just to say that was picked up by an audit may not really give a very informative picture of what that is, and he could explain maybe a little more detail on why we know.
SPEAKER_16
01:51:36
When a new business comes into town, they estimate what their gross receipts are going to be and pay taxes based on that.
01:51:47
After a couple of years, when they actually have full years of gross receipts, the Commissioner of Revenue will go out and get those actual receipts and make what they call a beginner's adjustment.
01:51:58
That's what this was, a beginner's adjustment.
01:52:00
This is nothing where somebody was trying to avoid taxes or whatever.
01:52:03
It was a financial type of business and you know what's happened in the financial industry in the last couple of years, it was just much higher what they were working in than anybody anticipated.
01:52:13
So yeah, auto's probably not a good word in that regard because it almost sounds punitive, doesn't it?
01:52:19
Personal property taxes were $70,000 over budget.
01:52:23
There again, which is very close.
01:52:25
If you look at the six revenue major sources I just talked about, we were actually $182,000 under budget for 09.
01:52:32
And right now they're tracking $754,000 under budget for fiscal year 10.
01:52:38
One point I want to make is that we're actually forecasting the 10 assessments to be the same basically as the 9 assessments.
01:52:46
And if that's 1% off, that's over $500,000.
01:52:49
I guess our real estate tax was a lot.
01:52:55
On the expenditure side, under budget by a little over $5 million.
01:53:03
Now it sounds like a lot, but some of these were one-time
01:53:07
reasons.
01:53:08
An end-to-end service we had budgeted $752,000, which of course didn't happen, therefore we did not spend it.
01:53:14
That's certainly a one-time savings since it's not budgeted in the 10 budget.
01:53:19
Employee compensation and benefits, $836,000.
01:53:23
When we put a budget together, we actually put levels of $1.5 million for employee compensation and benefits in one account.
01:53:30
As the departments need it, we will transfer out of that account.
01:53:34
We didn't have to transfer out of $836,000.
01:53:37
There again, it's a one-time savings because there was no color increase in the 10 budget.
01:53:43
Nothing recommended.
01:53:44
Social services was $744,000 under budget.
01:53:48
I don't think we can count on another $744,000 under budget in social services.
01:53:53
Citywide reserve was $250,000 that we set up just in case of an emergency.
01:53:59
It wasn't spent, therefore we saved that.
01:54:02
We saved $300,000 from the fund balance target adjustment.
01:54:06
As you know, we have a policy of 12% of the operating budget.
01:54:10
We only need to use about $174,000 of that.
01:54:14
And the rest of the $5 million really comes from the Departmental Savings of $2.2 million of which have been $900,000 with personal services.
01:54:26
What we've asked in the information here is that $1,050,000 be transferred or appropriated back to various operating departments.
01:54:35
We had a request of $5.7 million, and $1.50,000 was actually recommended.
01:54:45
With the remainder of the transfers, we have $1,700,000 left, and that's what we recommend going to the CFA.
01:54:54
So if there's any questions, we'll be happy to try to answer them for you.
SPEAKER_19
01:55:02
I just want to agree with shifting the money to the capital budget because it's one-time expenditure rather than ongoing.
SPEAKER_16
01:55:13
Exactly.
01:55:13
Which is what we normally do with a surplus.
01:55:15
Last year we actually put it in reserve rather than put it into the CIP.
01:55:23
I guess that reserve still exists, by the way.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
01:55:29
Other questions or comments on the recommendations from staff?
David Brown
Member, City Council
01:55:37
Another agenda item, which is the Meadow Creek Parkway interchange, one of the concerns on that expressed by
01:55:52
The Southern Environmental Law Center was adequately replacing areas that are deforested to trees that are cut down.
01:56:01
And they recommend that we augment our budget in order to make sure there's plenty of funds to go ahead and do a good job with that interchange when it's brought on.
01:56:13
So my idea is to say well why don't we go ahead and set aside some money so that we can adequately replace with decent sized trees and the trees are being lost with the interchange.
01:56:27
My question is if we wanted to do that with some of the surplus funds should we need to do it now or are we putting it into
01:56:40
in favor of transfer to my CIP, does that allow us to at our next, you know, later agenda item to discuss and perhaps put aside $100,000 or more for tree reforestation?
SPEAKER_16
01:56:57
Sorry we could do that, yeah.
SPEAKER_15
01:57:00
We have initially set this to go into the CIP account and that's per council policy.
01:57:07
However, you all can allocate it however you would deem appropriately.
01:57:12
Normally we would do that at the time we actually present the budget and you get the formal CIP so at that time if you wanted to allocate some additional money for
01:57:23
trees are landscaping along that project, you could do it.
01:57:27
However, if you desire to make that decision tonight, you would have to reduce this figure and show the... Well, you could cut it at any time during the year and do an amendment and do it that way, so it's...
01:57:41
It will take council action in order to use this funds.
SPEAKER_19
01:57:46
Okay.
01:57:46
The Venable Road, and they didn't cover fiscal year at all.
David Brown
Member, City Council
01:57:49
No, I'd just like us to be able to, at some point,
01:57:53
discussing the interchange, I'd like us to go ahead and be prepared.
01:57:58
You know, I'd like to encourage us to do that and I just want to make sure that whatever action we take now doesn't create it to be a cumbersome process.
SPEAKER_15
01:58:07
And Councilor, I would point out tonight's reading is first reading on this ordinance, and if you all wanted to make an adjustment at second reading, you could amend it.
01:58:16
We've got a lot of options open to you.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
01:58:21
Any other questions or comments?
01:58:23
Or a motion to approve the Corporation?
01:58:29
I'm sorry, that's a good point.
01:58:31
Thank you very much, Mr. Craig.
01:58:33
We do have a public hearing on this matter.
01:58:35
Before we take a vote, and there's one person that signed up to speak, who's Collette Hall.
SPEAKER_17
01:58:46
Good evening, Mr. Knight and Councillors.
01:58:48
Collette Hall, 101 Robinson Lane.
01:58:51
Here I'm glad the decision was made to let Ms. Beauregard speak first because the general theme of my thoughts tonight actually followed along a lot of what we saw in her slides.
01:59:04
And I remember a whole year ago, Mr. O'Connell telling the neighborhood presidents, we're going to be okay in 09, probably going to be okay in 2010, but boy I'm concerned about 2011.
01:59:17
So it sounds like he was right, right on.
01:59:21
I have read Mr. Ray's summary of the budget surplus, quote, the Commissioner of Government was able to collect one-time funds that resulted from audits performed on businesses in Charlottesville, end quote, which he said earlier.
01:59:38
He goes on to say, had it not been for this new revenue of $1.2 million, the actual budget would have actually been $1 million under budget.
01:59:48
and I got this on page 59 on the website, Agenda with Background
01:59:54
Councilor Vernon always wants us to be careful about numbers.
01:59:59
Over the years, the main topic that I've addressed before this body is responsive budgeting and fiscal prudence, that is the city operating within its budget.
02:00:10
I'm sorry to say, year after year, I see expenditures for what I would call wasteful spending, spending to our wants and not our needs.
02:00:22
and perhaps I should say, not earning our needs.
02:00:25
It is never too early to discuss the upcoming budget and tax rate.
02:00:30
Due to our actual decreased revenues, please use this surplus wisely.
02:00:36
In the spring of 2010, Charlotte's taxpayers will not want to hear that the tax rate needs to be raised.
02:00:46
And I have not previously discussed this with Mr. Fats.
02:00:50
But great minds think alike.
02:00:53
Mr. Ray also wrote, and this is a quote, there is a balance of one million seven thousand eleven seven hundred eighty six after the recommendations which the city manager recommends be placed in the capital improvement fund for future programming.
02:01:09
This is important because the bond rating agencies closely track what the city contributes as pay as you go, which would be cash, versus bonds issued in the CRP.
02:01:22
During our last, and I think this is the key, during our last bond sale, they did make note that our cash contributions to the CRP were declining, end quote.
02:01:34
The reason that's so important is, Mr. O'Connor has told you, and former councils, and also the civil surveyors and taxpayers of the city, that we want to maintain our AAA bond rating, and we certainly do.
02:01:48
And that is so important for borrowing money for these major projects.
02:01:53
so decisions you make tonight and in the near future might actually affect and impact that AAA boundary.
02:02:02
If CRP expenditure is approved, use the access for a project that will benefit the entire city's infrastructure.
02:02:10
Our city manager assures us that some infrastructure is an unseen crisis waiting to happen.
02:02:18
Let's fix something that needs fixing rather than build a clock that we don't need.
02:02:23
Thank you.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:02:24
Is there anybody else who would like to speak on this matter?
02:02:28
Mr. Bloomstone.
SPEAKER_11
02:02:36
Daniel Bilastone, 501 Park Hill.
02:02:39
I wasn't going to speak tonight, but since trees has come up as part of this budget issue, I wanted to comment.
02:02:47
And that is, when Senator Rauner made an earmark for this interchange, it was for $27 million.
02:02:57
The price tag of the interchange is now in excess of $32 million.
02:03:02
By taking surplus revenue and plugging it in to do what the interchange should have been doing and what the funding for the interchange should have been doing, we're simply masking the escalating cost of this.
02:03:14
The engineers on this project did not do what the city council wanted and envisioned, which was to provide
02:03:23
A simple way for people to get downtown, instead they got incredibly ambitious in building interchange that actually puts downtown at a competitive disadvantage by putting huge amounts of money into creating ramps that will send people to pan tops rather than downtown.
02:03:40
and I think the best thing to do if you want to plant more trees or restore the park and pedestrian amenities to this project is to look at the original landmark and insist that the engineers deliver on what you want, which was a connection, Julian, Huja, David,
02:03:59
for cars to go downtown and stop spending all of this obscene amount of money on this monstrous interchange that actually puts downtown at a competitive use advantage by making it easier for county residents to go from 29 north to 25.
02:04:17
It's responding to the question of whether or not surplus income
02:04:22
should be put into the budget in order to plant trees.
02:04:29
And I think all of this does relate, and it certainly relates to budgeting long term for the city.
02:04:34
The city should insist that the $27 million, which we thought was adequate for an interchange, be used for an interchange.
02:04:42
There's just no doubt about that.
02:04:43
So, thank you for listening.
SPEAKER_13
02:04:50
I feel embarrassed speaking three times, but it's been a long time since I've been down here to BW.
02:04:57
This will be very short.
02:04:58
I was impressed with Ms. Beauregard's forecast of the revenues that you expect.
02:05:05
They seem to be flat, and all of them are, I think, pretty accurate, at least from my own belief.
02:05:11
What struck me was the increase in city spending.
02:05:14
Now you don't have much control over the revenues, but you do have controls, total, almost total, over the spending.
02:05:24
I think you should cut, if you cut three cents off, that's a million and a half, that's less than one percent of your total budget.
02:05:31
But, you've got to say,
02:05:33
The city has got to propose a budget that is less than the expected revenues.
02:05:38
You can't allow that increase.
02:05:41
It's a critical one.
02:05:42
There's no reason to.
02:05:43
You've got control over it.
02:05:44
And I won't talk again.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:05:46
You're welcome to talk anytime with us.
SPEAKER_13
02:05:48
Thank you.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:05:50
Anybody else like to speak?
02:05:52
OK, we'll now close the public hearing and open it up for either comments, questions, or a motion to approve this year-end appropriation.
SPEAKER_19
02:06:03
Just to comment, I think all our budgets are balanced.
02:06:10
Mr. Foster said, I think that there is a direction of the staff always to make sure that whether it is within the revenue or not above that, whether it is stood by there for a long time.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:06:31
Is there a motion to approve the appropriation on first reading?
02:06:35
I move to approve.
02:06:37
Is there a second?
SPEAKER_23
02:06:40
Second.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:06:40
Alright, it's been moved and seconded.
02:06:41
Carry forward to our next meeting.
02:06:44
Thank you all for Mr. Ray, Mr. Beauregard, all who spoke and points very well taken.
02:06:53
We'll now move on to item six on our agenda tonight.
02:06:59
which relates to the Route 250 Bypass Interchange at McIntire Road, major design features as presented at the October 29, 2009 public hearing.
02:07:10
A report from... Who's presenting this?
SPEAKER_14
02:07:21
Mr. Clayton, would you like to make the report?
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:07:30
All right, well, while we're waiting for the staff to show up for that report, here she is Miss Yanishek, and you're up, and you have a PowerPoint for us?
SPEAKER_06
02:07:53
No, just the drawings behind you, and I believe you should have copies in front of you.
02:08:00
Good evening everyone.
02:08:01
I'm here to discuss the major design features located within the right-of-way that was shown at the October 29th public hearing.
02:08:10
As the major design features, we're talking about the great separated interchange where McIntyre will be traveling under 250, the current ramp configuration,
02:08:19
a straight girder bridge that we've shown as well, the 10-foot head bike trail system, as well as the grading plan that would allow for context-sensitive design in the Gateway experience.
02:08:33
Once this is approved, the project team will further refine the design and be able to answer more detailed questions.
02:08:42
Have we arrived at the current design?
02:08:43
I'd like to go over that.
02:08:44
As we all know, it's been a challenge to fit this interchange.
02:08:49
Within the four quadrants, all of them have implemented community resources and we've been directed by city council and the public to limit the impacts on the environment, the neighborhoods, historic resources, as well as the park.
02:09:04
The G1 alternative was selected for that reason.
02:09:07
It was shown as the smallest rent configuration that we could fit.
02:09:11
within this area.
02:09:12
The version shown in April of 2008, roughly the bridge was 223 feet long, 30 feet high, we crossed the stream eight times, and we impacted the stream 990 linear feet.
02:09:29
With McIntire Park, 8.5 acres would have been used, and of course these are all approximate.
02:09:37
We were directed by city council that the interchange was still too large and if we could look at reducing the size of the bridge and minimizing impacts to the stream.
02:09:46
So we investigated moving the trail from the east side of the stream to the west side of McIntire Road.
02:09:55
By doing this, we were able to eliminate five stream crossings, 660 feet of linear stream impact.
02:10:03
We were able to lower the bridge by five feet and cut the length of the bridge by roughly a half.
02:10:09
McIntire Park, also the impacts to that would be reduced down to seven acres.
02:10:16
This direction given to us by the public and by City Council to reduce the impacts also helped us while we were going concurrently through the Section 106 process.
02:10:26
And at the public hearing, which we had where this design was commented on, 94 people attended with a total of 146 providing comments.
02:10:36
And within these comments, we saw that largely the size of the interchange was not questioned.
02:10:44
However, we did notice that the public did comment upon the pedestrian bicycle facilities, that they weren't sufficiently accommodated.
02:10:53
So I'd like to go through
02:10:55
where the trail system currently is now.
02:10:58
And what we were looking at was that Shanks Branch is currently on the west side of McIntire Road.
02:11:04
Instead of crossing McIntire at the Harris-McIntire intersection, we could only cross what we could cross at Harris, which has less traffic, and that would reduce conflicts between pedestrians and vehicles.
02:11:21
We continue that 10-foot trail down
02:11:23
we'd have to the left a new trail that would connect Hillcrest and Birdwood to downtown and again this would all be 10 feet wide.
02:11:34
If you wanted to continue north you would cross at a signalized ramp and be protected by it.
02:11:39
You would then go under 250 and again another ramp protected by the signal and you're in the eastern side of McIntire Park which we're currently looking at getting a master plan.
02:11:52
going.
02:11:53
If you wanted to continue north further still, you could cross McIntire Road, again in another signal protected, and connect it to the McIntire Road Extension Trail System.
02:12:07
And in addition to this, you're going to have on-road bike facilities on McIntire through the interchange.
02:12:17
We see this project as an improvement to the current conditions, to the current network while still being sensitive to budget.
02:12:26
We also see this as a portion of the transportation network where we can continue these connections to the west by connecting to the ped bridge that's currently being proposed and designed over the railroad alignment and other projects that the city is
02:12:45
working on, including connecting Shanks Branch, where it currently is, down south to the county office building, which is another project.
02:12:54
Do you have any questions?
David Brown
Member, City Council
02:13:01
Questions?
02:13:02
I have some questions that are basically giving you a chance to respond to some of the issues raised at both the public hearings and also in the email comments that we received.
02:13:15
One of them was Kay Slaughter with the Sutter Island Law Center and Dan Bluestone discussed closing the western ramp from Park Street.
02:13:30
as a way of having less impact on the Rock Hill area.
SPEAKER_06
02:13:37
We've gotten away from changing the ramp configuration of this interchange and Park Street.
02:13:42
Park Street's a little, while we're merging into and not fully up to the Park Street on the project scope of the interchange.
02:13:54
Kind of see what I'm saying.
02:13:59
Basically, by eliminating ramps on either interchange, you're introducing more cut-through traffic through the neighborhood as you reduce the ability of people to easily navigate.
02:14:10
It also constitutes signage.
David Brown
Member, City Council
02:14:24
Has there been any discussion on how many people would be anticipated to using the ramp in that direction or what their alternatives would be?
SPEAKER_06
02:14:33
The discussion has been largely how to then get the people that are coming south on Park Street without going through the neighborhood east on or west on 250.
02:14:47
And where would the appropriate place to cut through the neighborhood or cut over be?
02:14:54
I guess to East High and then to Preston to McIntire.
David Brown
Member, City Council
02:15:03
I'd like to get some maybe input from people who suggested this as to how many cars would be using that ramp would just be a significant problem.
02:15:12
Certainly there are already people who live at the Covenant School
02:15:22
are only allowed access in one direction on the 250 currently, and that seemed to be acceptable.
02:15:27
I'm just trying to get my head around what's the difference between decreasing the impact on the historic part, the Rock Hill part, by only allowing access in one direction from Park Street, just to get some sense of whether that's a feasible alternative or not.
SPEAKER_06
02:15:46
Well, we could certainly give you the numbers as to what we're projecting.
David Brown
Member, City Council
02:15:51
Second thing is what happened to the pedestrian bridge?
SPEAKER_06
02:15:54
The pedestrian bridge, we had three concerns with the pedestrian bridge.
02:16:00
It came into play when individual citizens on the steering committee, et cetera, were concerned that they had no protective means of crossing that entire road.
02:16:11
And we were largely looking at the roundabout design.
02:16:14
And as you know, the roundabout traffic is continuous.
02:16:17
It does not stop.
02:16:19
Individuals were concerned about that.
02:16:21
When we moved to the G1 alternative,
02:16:26
We're able to give a protected signal.
02:16:28
Then we also have the concern regarding the impacts to the historic property that is
02:16:34
McIntire Park as well as Rock Hill.
02:16:38
The trail system, even on the modified version on G1, you could see it was cutting through Rock Hill where we were able to pull back closer to the roadway.
02:16:50
And then we had a boardwalk system, again that would go through MACA and the park to try and meet the ADA requirements.
02:17:01
for the bridge because there is an elevation difference and in order to create a pedestrian bridge
02:17:10
That's again ADA required, or meets the requirements that also helps with strollers, with bikes, etc.
02:17:18
We have to create a 25 foot high false wall with extensive grading, removing all trees, etc.
02:17:26
on the eastern side of McIntyre.
02:17:30
Over.
02:17:30
And then the third concern, as always, is budget.
02:17:34
However, again, we see this as an improvement on the existing situation.
02:17:40
It does not preclude a pedestrian bridge from being added later, either through the master planning process or some other project.
SPEAKER_19
02:17:50
This would be more useful what we have right now, a civilized crossing on the pedestrian bridge, which also would be more safely used, and I think
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:18:03
Hello friend, you are being structured I have to disagree, I mean I think anytime we ask cars and, I'm sorry, bicycles and pedestrians to compete with cars it's a disincentive for bicycles and pedestrians rather than giving them a dedicated lane, a dedicated trail
SPEAKER_19
02:18:32
No, no, we're talking about the bridge.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:18:34
Your bridge will be lower, this is what will be safer than... Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were saying this, the iteration we have now is safer.
02:18:43
I'm sorry, I misunderstood you.
02:18:45
I think he's just talking about the bridge itself.
David Brown
Member, City Council
02:18:50
Any questions I had were about the degree to which
02:19:01
The trail system running west of the interchange has been thought through.
02:19:10
Can you talk about that a little bit?
SPEAKER_06
02:19:12
To the west where we're in McIntire Park and we're coming from there, we've agreed to extend the trail system up to the Vietnam War Memorial
02:19:23
which will also be improving and again with an ADA ramp.
02:19:30
We're trying to limit the impact we are having on the park.
02:19:34
We are having to cut into the hillside a little bit on that side.
02:19:42
Unless we extend the project scope of this, we're not thinking of extending the trail.
02:19:50
We also currently have
02:19:52
There's facilities at the golf course, the waiting pool, the parking lot, the tot lot, etc.
02:20:00
where this hasn't been master planned.
David Brown
Member, City Council
02:20:03
If you look at the original alternative G1 and it has a brown line with an arrow at the end indicating that access going west along the park
SPEAKER_06
02:20:16
Well we've tried to be careful with that these are conceptual drawings that this is what we envision and this is what I believe the city envisions in the future.
02:20:25
I don't necessarily know if it is a connection with this project.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:20:30
I have to say for myself, that's one of the main reasons why I support the idea of moving the trail from the east side of the road to the west side of the road thinking that it would create, it would link up with a trail that would continue to go north through the park rather than terminate at the Veterans Memorial, the Vietnam Veterans Memorial.
02:20:51
If I knew that it was going to terminate, then I wouldn't have supported moving the trail.
SPEAKER_06
02:20:56
Well and that's, we're at a sticking point where we currently have a golf course there.
02:21:00
Trails normally aren't conducive to golf course use, yet it hasn't been master planned and we don't want this roadway project to drive how the rest of the park is planned and designed by the public.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:21:15
Which side, remind us which side of the road, of the county portion of the road the trail sits on?
SPEAKER_06
02:21:22
That would be on the east side.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:21:23
On the east side?
SPEAKER_06
02:21:24
Yes.
02:21:27
Yes, we're proposing to connect the city side to what will eventually lead to the county.
David Brown
Member, City Council
02:21:39
Maybe just to follow up on that, because I think it's a core issue.
02:21:44
The chronology, as I recall it, and I think it's pretty accurate, is that when the preliminary drawings came back, you know,
02:21:53
All of us felt like this is just way too big.
02:21:55
What can be done to make it smaller?
02:21:57
And one thing that could be done to make it smaller was to have the trail, while still being on the east side, not have its own separate tunnel underneath the ramps, but rather to be a trail that would cross on the surfaces of the ramps.
02:22:18
But when you presented this to us at that meeting,
02:22:22
It just moved it over to the west side of the stream, but not all the way to the west side of the road.
02:22:34
That's how I, sort of as I recall it.
02:22:36
And then at that meeting we said, well, maybe we could even move it to the east side of the road, to the west side of the road, I'm sorry.
02:22:43
But it was, that was sort of seen as perhaps having connections allowing us to continue to make the interchange shorter and smaller, but also perhaps having some advantages in terms of trail connections.
SPEAKER_06
02:22:58
And that's kind of how we see
02:23:01
why it has been moved to the west that again it's pretty dramatic what we've been able to decrease regarding the effects but also we have Shanks Branch on the west, the Shanks Greenway
02:23:15
and we have this missing connection between Harris and McIntire Road extended trail system.
02:23:22
At some point we're going to need to cross McIntire Road and how many times do we want to do it?
02:23:29
Do we want to lead pedestrians to the eastern side of McIntire Park or do we want to lead them towards the county?
02:23:39
This provides it with both ways, but we feel we're delivering more of our city residents north to the eastern side of McIntire Park, which has the largest area to do something with.
SPEAKER_19
02:23:56
I have a question on the same line.
02:24:01
Could there be a sidewalk on the east side also, rather than the west side?
SPEAKER_06
02:24:05
That is something we can certainly look into.
SPEAKER_19
02:24:07
because that way you can have both sides and connect to the field on the north also.
SPEAKER_06
02:24:16
We can certainly look into that.
SPEAKER_19
02:24:17
Is it a similar environment there?
SPEAKER_06
02:24:20
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_19
02:24:23
Do you see what I am trying to say?
02:24:31
Those are the two options.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:24:39
Are you able to isolate the cost savings that were realized from removing the pedestrian, the dedicated pedestrian underpass, if you will, from this earlier version?
SPEAKER_06
02:24:57
We do not have that.
02:24:59
We would have to look into it.
02:25:00
It's not just the trail system, but
02:25:04
It's also reducing the scope of these ramps, lowering the bridge, making the bridge much shorter in length and in height.
02:25:16
It's a multitude of things.
02:25:18
It would be a high number, I would imagine.
02:25:21
We could look into it if that would help matters.
David Brown
Member, City Council
02:25:31
The bridge is half as long now, but at the cost of no longer having a dedicated pedestrian tunnel.
02:25:38
Separated, yes.
02:25:49
whether that's an acceptable cost to have, you know, was it worth it to have a bigger bridge in order to have that pedestrian tunnel?
02:25:57
I mean, I think we previously all agreed we did not want a big bridge and I think we're pleased to see it being half the size, half the length anyway.
02:26:07
But I think that crossing on the west side
02:26:12
is needlessly complicated and I think it's complicated in a couple spots.
02:26:17
It's complicated to get across McIntop, it's complicated to get from
02:26:27
The Trail, Shanks Branch Trail, because you have to go across Harris.
02:26:33
Yes.
02:26:33
And then you have to get across a fairly busy driveway to the shops that include Cebo Coffee and a bunch of other shops.
02:26:44
And then you have to cross two ramps, which you have to do on either side.
02:26:49
And then you have to cross McIntyre Road on the north side
02:26:58
at a place where it has four lanes instead of two.
02:27:04
So it's a longer cross.
02:27:07
And so part of me thinks that if
02:27:11
We're not going back to a design that has a tunnel.
02:27:16
But we will try to make this simpler.
02:27:17
It seems simpler to me to cross McIntyre Road at a signalized intersection at where the Shanks Trail ends and go ahead and get over on the east side
02:27:33
where you could initially be far away from the road and then only have to come close to the road adjacent to the overpass, I mean, when you go into the overpass, and all of those crossings, a couple of them would be much simpler.
02:27:50
You wouldn't have the driveway of Siebel Coffee to contend with, you wouldn't have this angle to cross crossing at Harris Road to contend with.
02:28:01
I think
02:28:03
Personally, I think, at this point, getting over to the East Side early on seemed simpler to me.
SPEAKER_19
02:28:10
Well, I think you could have both sides, because I think the reason you have to have both sides, the sidewalk on both sides, East or West.
David Brown
Member, City Council
02:28:19
I'd like to hear it not be described as a sidewalk, hopefully.
SPEAKER_19
02:28:23
We'll go to the other corner.
02:28:27
But there's still a nice, full trail.
02:28:28
There you go, thank you.
02:28:31
It could be on both sides.
02:28:32
I mean, I think we have to have a moment.
02:28:37
I don't think the cost of it will go.
02:28:39
We'll be following the creek this time.
SPEAKER_06
02:28:47
We can certainly look into that.
SPEAKER_16
02:28:50
Yeah, you know, I'd like to agree with both sides.
02:28:53
Okay.
02:28:53
Really.
02:28:54
I would certainly agree with Mr. Bejian.
SPEAKER_19
02:28:56
I would do what Dave was saying.
02:28:59
It's less complicated when people have two options.
SPEAKER_03
02:29:03
And they can choose to where they're going.
SPEAKER_19
02:29:05
To where they're going.
SPEAKER_16
02:29:07
That also gives access for the vertebrae too.
SPEAKER_06
02:29:10
Correct, yes.
02:29:13
Would you only want a crossing of McIntyre once at the interchange or twice?
SPEAKER_19
02:29:21
What's your question?
SPEAKER_06
02:29:23
Would you want it across McIntyre at the beginning of those two ramps and then also at the other two ramps?
02:29:31
And in condition to Harris?
02:29:32
Do you want three crossings in McIntyre or just two?
02:29:36
Same two.
SPEAKER_19
02:29:39
Two, okay.
02:29:40
I'll ask you the other one.
02:29:42
No, that's better.
02:29:43
Okay.
02:29:43
I'm going to say a question.
SPEAKER_06
02:29:45
Say it again.
02:29:46
Sorry.
02:29:46
So we're agreeing that we would cross McIntyre once at Harris, and I was wondering, we currently have
02:29:52
at the northern ramps that we'd be crossing McIntire again.
02:29:56
Would we want to add an additional crossing of McIntire at the southern two ramps?
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:30:04
I would, I mean, I may be in the minority here, but I would not even, I wouldn't even want that crossing on the north side of the interchange.
02:30:12
I think we should do everything we can to see how we put that bridge back in the place.
02:30:20
for many reasons.
02:30:23
So I would like to see us explore that and see what the consequences would be.
SPEAKER_06
02:30:27
We can certainly get you that information, what the consequences would be.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:30:31
That's going to be a heavily, heavily trafficked interchange at the intersection right there and
02:30:39
I think if we can put a pedestrian-bicycle connection a couple hundred feet or a hundred feet north of there, where they're not having to compete with cars.
SPEAKER_06
02:30:46
Okay, because we currently, back in that rendition, it was 550 feet away.
02:30:50
Okay, 500 feet, sorry.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:30:51
Okay.
SPEAKER_06
02:30:53
So you would not want any signalized crossing across McIntire, you would only want grade separated.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:31:01
That would be my preference.
SPEAKER_19
02:31:04
I don't think it would be my preference.
David Brown
Member, City Council
02:31:06
I think we should bring all those ideas back with some other discussion and bring Chris Genzic here and cost ideas.
SPEAKER_06
02:31:16
Is there any other information I can...
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:31:29
Yes, I have a series.
02:31:33
Can you address the issue?
02:31:34
I think it's a very important issue relating to cars and access to the, not vehicles, but the rescue squad.
02:31:42
I know they have expressed concern, we've heard citizens express concern about this iteration where they're having to backtrack to my entire road and having to compete with traffic to get onto the bypass whereas right now they can easily hop right onto the bypass and is there no way to facilitate an easier connection to the bypass for cars?
SPEAKER_06
02:32:01
Well we had a meeting with their board members and we received a lot of good information and input from them.
02:32:07
We heard that concern.
02:32:08
We also, we learned quite a bit.
02:32:11
What we were proposing was that we were going to have a opticon system placed at their new entrance that would also be coordinated and connected to the other two signals at the ramps to flush traffic through the interchange.
02:32:27
Currently they have no
02:32:31
They work Opticon at their current location, so they go out with lights and sirens only, so they're not protected by a signal.
02:32:38
So essentially what we've tried to do is remove that conflict.
02:32:44
It's irregular currently at the intersection.
02:32:48
We currently have an accident problem as it exists.
02:32:51
We're trying to make things safer.
02:32:53
So we're trying to push it down in between Harris and the interchange, give them a good area to get out of, and then have signal protection to flush the traffic so that they're able to get in whatever direction they're going.
02:33:07
for the calls.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:33:07
Do you know, was that meeting held since they provided their public comment or?
SPEAKER_06
02:33:12
Yes, it was after the public hearing about the next Tuesday.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:33:17
Okay.
02:33:17
Because I know when they, I read through all these public comments and they were still very concerned at that point.
SPEAKER_06
02:33:23
Yes, certainly, certainly.
02:33:24
We're going to meet with them.
02:33:24
We've received information again on I believe two months of average calls.
02:33:29
so that we can figure out exactly what percentage of where they're going.
02:33:35
Off the cuff they told us that 90% of the time they travel south on McIntyre.
02:33:39
We just want to make sure that something that they just said off the cuff is actually backed up by data and we're not doing them a disservice to us or to them.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:33:55
I'm also very interested in whether you do it tonight or in the near future to see what your responses were, what the team's responses were to the concerns raised by the Covenant School.
02:34:05
They raised a series of concerns about traffic flow in the neighborhood.
SPEAKER_06
02:34:10
Yes, we've had several meetings actually with them, generally in connection with the Hillcrest Birdwood to make sure that they're listening to the neighbors and to the school.
02:34:21
They address several issues that we've brought up about the roundabout and its size, and if we could tee it off, that was one of our suggestions.
02:34:29
how they currently load and unload their students and how that traffic circulates throughout the neighborhood.
02:34:37
We offer to look at that for them and to help everyone with this project to improve that as well.
02:34:47
It's one of those things where we want to happen to look at it.
02:34:49
We're not really at the appropriate time, but they certainly have our commitment that those issues will be resolved.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:34:59
And I'm trying to find, there was another letter which I found very compelling that we received from Dieckman Coggell, I'm sorry if I mangled the name, bringing up some, I think, very important points about the design of the interchange itself.
02:35:14
And again, I would like to see what your responses were point by point, and you don't have to do it now, but to some of those design considerations.
02:35:26
And I know we've had a discussion about
02:35:29
having a group of folks like Kay Slaughter and others to meet and try to hash through some of these issues that we're talking about right now and that were brought forward in the public comments and I would certainly
02:35:46
Hope that Chicago would be included in that.
02:35:50
And I think the Red Vented Trails Foundation has raised some good concerns, some legitimate concerns.
02:35:57
Sounds like you've already addressed the car's concerns.
02:36:00
Oh, there he is.
02:36:05
Anyhow, that's the comments from Chicago.
02:36:07
I've also flagged them.
02:36:09
Yeah.
02:36:11
But I think bringing some of these folks together, I know we already talked about a date for that meeting, to work through some of these issues would be very helpful.
SPEAKER_06
02:36:22
Certainly.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:36:23
And as Dr. Brown said, just bring back options to council and obviously some of these things are going to have costs.
02:36:29
Okay.
02:36:30
Would you
David Brown
Member, City Council
02:36:46
You wouldn't be willing to express your opinions on which of the proposals you think is the best?
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:36:52
No, that's what I was about to say.
02:36:54
Even though ultimately I don't support the project, I am absolutely committed to, if we're going to build it, that we need to do it the right way.
02:37:00
So I will absolutely weigh in on which options I think are the least worst.
SPEAKER_14
02:37:05
Okay, great.
David Brown
Member, City Council
02:37:09
I'd like to go back to the idea that Dan and I have been talking about in public today of whether we should actually rely on the money from the earmark to satisfactorily provide planting some trees or whether we should be prepared to
02:37:28
put some room there and I think in Kay Slaughter's letter she really pointed out the need for replacing these things and I think some of us have some worry of what we're going to have initially would be a project where people can say well it'll look a lot better in 10 or 15 years and I'd like to make sure that we as a city ensure that we do the best job we can when it's initially done and that has to include
02:37:55
adequate trees of decent sizes being included in the project.
02:38:00
And so I would like to see us be prepared to, I think we should make sure we're not taking the place of something that should be in the budget already but rather that we're augmenting and enhancing what can be done.
SPEAKER_19
02:38:13
I also mentioned last time that I would like to see trees in the mediums on both sides, north and south.
02:38:22
That's interesting.
02:38:23
I don't know the conceptual plans, we don't want to show landscaping.
02:38:26
I would certainly be appropriate to have some trees in the mediums on both sides.
SPEAKER_06
02:38:31
We've heard that comment and we've tried to put that in the conceptual plan, reflect that there are trees in the medium now.
02:38:37
But again, we'll certainly make note of that and continue that throughout the plans.
SPEAKER_19
02:38:44
Just like the mayor has said, I also want to make sure that I do plan to support this change.
02:38:52
I must say I have mixed feelings about it.
SPEAKER_15
02:39:07
Does council have a specific time frame you're looking at as getting back on this?
02:39:11
I know there's a lot of staff work to be done.
02:39:14
Next meeting, Miss?
SPEAKER_06
02:39:16
We're prepared.
02:39:17
Is there anything else?
Holly Edwards
Member, City Council
02:39:19
The only comment is that design matters.
02:39:23
Design matters.
SPEAKER_06
02:39:25
Alright, great.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:39:26
Thank you very much.
02:39:35
I also just want to thank all the members of the public who participated in the public comment process on the interchange.
02:39:41
We received quite a number of comments and I think they're very instructive.
SPEAKER_19
02:39:52
I certainly hope so, yes.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:39:59
The last item on our regular business agenda tonight is a resolution authorizing purchase of land for the Fontaine Fire Station.
02:40:07
It's here before us tonight, first of one meeting.
SPEAKER_15
02:40:09
Mayor, members of council, as you're aware, for over eight years we've been searching for a suitable fire station site for the area that serves the university and the Fry's Springs community in the neighborhood of the Fontaine Avenue.
02:40:26
Previously we'd had discussions with council about several things that were important for this particular site and as is indicated in the agenda package, we now have the US Army Corps of Engineers, permits, the steep slopes waiver, the zoning text amendment, phase one and phase two environmental assessments, the entrance car design change,
02:40:52
and the Planning Commission approved a motion that the fire station was in compliance with the comprehensive plan.
02:41:01
The final site plan is under review by appropriate staff and we would hope to have that completed prior to our due diligence deadline.
02:41:11
Because the public, unless they were present at the Planning Commission meeting, may not be aware of all of the reasons why this project is important, I've asked Chief Warner to be here tonight to summarize very quickly two pages of information that's included in your agenda package.
02:41:29
It's been up on their webpage, but rather than going through the entire thing, I've asked him to concentrate on why this is important from the fire service perspective.
SPEAKER_10
02:41:40
Mr. Mayor, Members of Council, I'll make this brief since I'm the only thing standing in your way of adjournment.
02:41:46
The most important thing is the need for this fire station is about distance and time.
02:41:50
Right now our statistics have shown that we are not able to meet the response time in this Fry's Springs, Jefferson Park Avenue area.
02:41:59
within our six minutes as we stand as our goal.
02:42:03
Right now we're seeing eight minutes plus, and that's basically changing because of the demographics, because of the traffic, because of no additional roads, and the other things that go with it.
02:42:12
But in addition, GPA zoning allows for seven-floor apartment buildings.
02:42:16
It has one of the highest densities of housing in the community, both student and residents of citizens.
02:42:22
It's considered an apartment corridor with increased rental properties, a significant number of large non-sprinkler buildings,
02:42:29
Limited access to GPA with weight limitations on the bridge, significant housing growth, increased traffic congestion, not only just to the normal traffic, but now we have major events that occur, which dramatically change our access to the area.
02:42:43
It is the area furthest from any emergency fire and rescue response, and the president unable to beat the response time, as I mentioned, and the area affected that will see improvements will result in 2,000 emergency responses with better service.
02:42:58
When it comes to the new proposed fire station, it's designed to do a number of things.
02:43:03
First and foremost, to improve emergency response times, and I think it's important to note that in the case where we had a fire death on Lewis Mountain Road, it's my belief, because we saved one, that if this fire station had been in place that day, that we could have saved both, because the time difference would have been significant.
02:43:23
This fire station also, by placing it at this current location proposed, will also help us to work toward improving our ISO rating from an ISO 2 to an ISO 1.
02:43:32
We've gotten that information from the ISO services.
02:43:36
It will house most of CFD's valuable fleet resources and now expose the elements.
02:43:40
These things are what we're trying to protect our investments so they're out of the weather and we're reliable and ready to respond.
02:43:45
It will accommodate needed training space and elements through training and through design.
02:43:50
And it will have space provided for an ambulance and we're in discussions with the Charlottesville Albemarle Rescue Squad.
02:43:56
It is our intention to invite them to place one in there as well as to have bunk space for both city volunteers and university volunteers to increase the level of service in that area through our partnership with them.
02:44:08
It will accommodate space needed for hazmat response unit and trailer.
02:44:11
Currently they're separate and when it means we have to respond, we've got to take time to hook the trailer up to the truck and respond to the calls.
02:44:17
Being that we also serve the University of Virginia on a contractual basis, this provides us with that resource closest to the places that have those types of threats that we'll have to respond to.
02:44:26
It will provide parking space for firefighters and citizens using the fire station facilities.
02:44:31
It will provide a community room for use by citizens and civic organizations.
02:44:34
It will be energy efficient and green.
02:44:37
It will be LEED certified.
02:44:38
It will provide on-site physical fitness facilities for our firefighters.
02:44:43
It will meet the instruments corridor design requirements, which has certainly been an interesting challenge.
02:44:48
And it will provide suitable living space for firefighters who work 24-hour shifts.
02:44:52
And it is built with the intention to have expansion capabilities for years into the future.
02:44:56
Generally speaking, the real thumb for a fire station is to build it so that it will meet the needs 50 years into the future.
02:45:02
If you look at what we've done, we haven't built a new fire station in 47 years.
02:45:06
And I think Crystal really did the best part of justifying it to me when she said when you look back, 1957, what Charlottesville looked like then,
02:45:13
and you look at what it looks like now, it's considerably different and the challenges are more significant.
02:45:19
So for that, I thank you and I'll be glad to answer any questions if you have any.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:45:23
Thank you Chief.
02:45:25
Questions?
SPEAKER_19
02:45:27
At college, I agree with the Chief that we're doing it as fast as we can.
02:45:35
I would like to see it to be of interest for a good design building.
02:45:41
I would like to see it with competition so that you can see a great design.
02:45:48
It could be of interest for a city, but there is no reason not to focus and it should not be a good design.
SPEAKER_10
02:45:54
Well, I think we are looking at that from both innovation, both energy efficiency as well as our response capabilities, so we are looking at that for the future.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:46:06
Other questions or comments?
02:46:10
I think you've done a very thorough job on this and I appreciate all your work and I think you presented a very compelling case and I'm certainly going to be happy to entertain a motion to approve the resolution.
02:46:19
I also move.
02:46:21
Second.
02:46:22
You can move and second any further discussion.
02:46:23
If not, please indicate your vote.
02:46:26
Thank you very much.
02:46:30
Is there any other business before Council this evening?
02:46:34
If not, we will open up the final matters by the public.
02:46:39
Is there anybody who would like to speak, Mr. Kleeman?
SPEAKER_08
02:46:49
I'm Peter Kleeman.
02:46:50
I live at 407 Head Street in the city.
02:46:53
I just wanted to thank Mr. Watts personally for his efforts in getting the fountains working on the downtown mall.
02:46:59
He and I had several exchanges of emails and conversations on the mall
02:47:04
and he explained to me the efforts they were going through to try to bring the pumps up to standard and in fact they look like they came off as probably one of Chief Werner's fire engines.
02:47:17
The capacity of those pumps seems to be quite significant.
02:47:21
But I just wanted to get on record as saying I have had conversations with a variety of staff members on this and encouraged
02:47:28
that these are an important part of the downtown mall and I hope you have an opportunity to enjoy them while they're on for just about a week or 10 days or something but I look forward to them being on for many days in the future and I thank the city and the staff and just a lot in particular for their efforts.
SPEAKER_15
02:47:46
Thank you.
02:47:46
Mr. Kleeman was a very large team of people working on this and believe me they were as happy as you were.
SPEAKER_02
02:47:59
Good evening, DE Smith, 2652 Jefferson Park Circle in that dangerous Fry's Spring neighborhood.
02:48:08
I had this for you in the beginning and then I decided not to give you this little speech until I heard the presentation on Meadow Creek and then I was inspired.
02:48:23
I came tonight with the intention of actually talking about one part of the water supply plan that is in our red herring report as a myth and that is the idea that the water supply plan is necessary to restore the Mormon's River and your handout is actually a
02:48:47
and I'm not going to go as deeply into it as I was going to, but it is a chart taken from the Rivanna Water and Sewer Authorities Permit document.
02:48:56
It's actually extracted from that, the data is, and what it is basically says is that the amount of water that we take out of the Mormons
02:49:04
preserves most months, all but one, nearly 80% of the flow.
02:49:12
The other interesting sideline here is that this water supply plan is based on this book, Livers for Life, and I gave you the reference for that.
02:49:24
which is written by somebody who works with the Nature Conservancy and he says in this book that to maintain optimal biological conditions in a river you need to preserve 60 to 100% of natural flow and we've got 80 right now in Mormons.
02:49:39
That's not to say there aren't problems, it's not to say it's being managed properly and these are average.
02:49:48
The idea that we need to do this very expensive and increasingly expensive plan in order to save the Mormons is just simply, I did not believe, based in fact.
02:49:59
But I was inspired to bring that up because of the wonderful presentation on Meadow Creek
02:50:05
and on this exciting plan to restore it, I did live through, watched and enjoyed the restoration of the small section of Morris Creek at Azalea Park that's in my neighborhood.
02:50:17
It's beautiful.
02:50:17
It was done really, really well and it's been very effective and I can see the pictures before Meadow Creek and I can imagine that it will be as wonderful in Azalea Park and I just find it ironic that we give sort of this sort of knee-jerk
02:50:33
Acceptance to what I believe is a myth that we need to save this river way on the western side of Albemarle County when we have rivers in need right here and if we were to give as much passion and as many resources to our own rivers, our whole county would be in much better shape.
02:50:54
The other irony here is that the mitigation plan for the water supply plan is
02:50:59
planning trees along Buck Creek, which is also a pristine river or creek, as it were, when we have miles of rivers here in the city that really could use the kind of restoration that mitigation would supply.
02:51:16
The Rivanna River.
02:51:19
The Rivanna River is going to suffer under this water supply plan.
02:51:23
Why is the Mormons River, which is really very small, it's actually Moores Creek I think is bigger than the Mormons River, why does the Rivanna not have the status of the Mormons when it's a much bigger, much more important river that is going to really seriously be impacted
02:51:40
by the switchover and the impacts of this water supply plan.
02:51:44
So I will come back to you with more information.
02:51:48
You can pretty much be guaranteed on the Norman's River and the reason why it really shouldn't play as large a role in the water supply planning as it has.
Dave Norris
Mayor, City Council
02:52:01
Thank you.
02:52:01
Thank you, Ms. Smith.
SPEAKER_04
02:52:07
Betty Mooney, 201 Sunset.
02:52:08
I also had some other remarks before I got sidetracked with Richard Dreyfuss today, which I'd like to be sidetracked all day if I am, but anyways, there's another myth out there I need to correct.
02:52:21
I was hanging out at Bob's Barber Shop over the weekend before the football game, and I wasn't going to the football game, but I was hanging out with the barber and some of the people going, and I said to them, what do you know about our water supply plan?
02:52:35
and they said, oh well we know that the dam at Ragged Mountain is ready to collapse and there could be a catastrophic flood and the whole city could be destroyed and I said, well who told you this?
02:52:46
Where did you hear this?
02:52:47
They said, well everyone knows this.
02:52:50
So I need to repeat again apparently because
02:52:54
When our water director came and gave this impression that we couldn't repair the dam we have, that's false.
02:53:02
And you all know it's false, but apparently the public doesn't.
02:53:05
And we have a huge report showing how the dam we have can be repaired, and I just want to go over a few of the things directly from this tonight.
02:53:14
that there is an option that was well documented by an engineering firm which we paid a lot of money for saying that we could build a concrete, the advantage of converting the existing structure back to a concrete gravity dam is that it eliminates any uncertainty associated with the present performance of the earth field buttress.
02:53:39
Also, that alternative
02:53:41
will extend the useful life of the facility by 100 years.
02:53:46
They say at least, at least another 100 years.
02:53:51
So we need to know again to protect the city, to know how much is this about county growth and how much is this about repairing infrastructure, which we own most of the assets in this water plan.
02:54:06
The city residents own them.
02:54:08
We have to know
02:54:10
This study, which told us, and they said, one of the disadvantages was it would cost $3.4 million and we're looking at $200 million.
02:54:22
That was in 2003, of course, we know that's escalated.
02:54:25
But that's nothing compared to what we're looking at.
02:54:28
And we know that we have to know the cost of judging.
02:54:31
and we know that this may be an option, so we've got another cost.
02:54:35
And I don't trust, as you know, our Water Authority Director to do that for us because he has already lied to you at a council meeting.
02:54:43
He's misinformed you, he's misled you about this very topic.
02:54:48
So please get us the information.
02:54:50
Thank you.
David Brown
Member, City Council
02:54:51
Ms. Murray, anybody else like to speak?
02:54:56
I'd just like to comment to Dee Dee.
02:55:00
When Kevin Lynch was on city council, he felt very strongly that the mitigation that was done for the current plan should include impaired waterways in the city or in the urban ring.
02:55:15
And I actually participated in a conference call with him with the regulators and pretty much they said over and over to satisfy them
02:55:24
the same type of streams that were being impacted needed to be mitigated.
02:55:30
And so they pretty much said, you can spend all the money you want to mitigate your open streams, but for us, you have to find little tributaries that are way high up because that's what you're impacting here.
SPEAKER_14
02:55:41
There's no high up of amounts.
David Brown
Member, City Council
02:55:50
The streams that are being impacted and that are being mitigated against are little tributaries that are dry much of the time.
02:55:57
I don't know the details of this, but I do know they pretty much said you can
02:56:05
They found that butt-mounting mitigation would be acceptable and they found that the stuff in the city was too dissimilar from what was being impacted stream-wise to counter mitigation.
02:56:17
So they said, you want to spend money on the build?
02:56:19
Help yourself.
02:56:20
But you'll still have to do this for us because we won't consider it to be mitigation.
02:56:28
Thank you very much.
02:56:29
Meeting's adjourned.
SPEAKER_14
02:56:48
I want to face the moments from everywhere I've turned to, in kings and new beginning, in meadow, vines and fish.
02:57:13
I want to memorize it, and there I find your mother.
02:57:14
It all seems so surprising, and there I find that I know.
02:57:15
You go there, you go there, I go there, it's all within.
02:57:16
Stay here, we want you there.