City Council Meeting   11/17/2008

Pretty neat, huh?

Only rain down the storm drains.

For a free Be Fire Safe Virginia checklist, visit vafire.com.

It's your library.

Well, I sure hope that rain's cleared out plenty of fish to catch.

Hey Dad, where does all the rain go?

But when it falls on a hard surface like this parking lot, it finds its way into a storm drain.

What happens after it goes into the storm drain?

And the streams connect with the Rivanna River, where we love to swim.

And fish!

Pretty neat, huh?

Only rain down the storm drains.

Hello, I'm Julian Taliaferro, a member of the Charlottesville City Council, and you're watching

P.S.

Any other announcements from other counselors or items to be added to the agenda?

But it was wonderful.

The first person who has signed up to speak is Jo Marshall.

So please help Mountainside and Jana to care for those in need.

I

If it becomes as it was in the last Depression, I hate to think about it.

Ms. Marshall, I'm going to have to ask you to wrap your hands up.

And I thank you for considering Happy Mountainside and for listening to me.

Thank you very much.

That's ridiculous.

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much.

Carla Manor.

Alison Sappington

Thank you.

Betty Mooney.

Thank you.

Dee Dee Smith.

Thank you.

Kevin Lynch.

Thank you.

Anyone else like to share their thoughts, Ms. Hall?

Thank you.

Any other responses?

But one way or another, I think something has to change just because having a meeting that occurs at midnight or later really isn't exactly in the public eye anymore and it's not in the eye of the press as well.

I think this lady just asked... That's what Mayor Norris was talking about.

We'll get to the specifics and there will be a public relations campaign around that.

They could be spending time in transportation, housing, menus, other issues.

I'll just respond in reference to Mountainside, the comments rather made by Ms. Marshall that I would certainly hope we could continue to assist them because there are a lot of former city residents that live there and from my understanding there are a shortage of beds I think in that category, I don't know if that's correct or not but that's what I've heard so it would be my hope that we can continue to lend support to Mountainside

and when I get a chance to talk to you about the Medicare loopholes, I'll let you all know.

Are there any items that councillors would like to pull from the consent agenda or a motion to approve?

I don't think it entirely came out the way we wanted it to but I think they made some good progress and I just want to publicly thank Neighborhood Development Services and our building inspectors for taking the time to be part of that and for working hard to try to get a good outcome.

I second the motion.

First of two readings, Craig Brown.

There is a public hearing required.

I would entertain a motion to approve unless there's any discussion.

I so move.

Craig Brown.

A public hearing is required and the ordinance is before council for a first reading.

Is there a motion to approve?

I also move, Mr. Mayor.

And this is actually a process that's already been underway on the staff level, and tonight is our first chance to get an update from the staff, hear about financial forecasts, and here to present is our budget director, Leslie Beauregard.

I'm now going to let Maurice Jones, who's our Assistant City Manager, say a few words about the efficiency study.

Thank you.

Thank you.

and David Brown.

Thank you very much Mr. Beauregard and Mr. Jones.

Any questions on the part of counselors or comments?

Do you know right off hand?

For?

Last year.

I think it was all dedicated to projects.

In terms of the... Go ahead.

What's happened in the last couple of years, if that would get at your question?

I'm just interested in the last year.

Okay.

I would like to see someone to go for more capital budget because it's one time expenditures.

If that doesn't happen, then the money can be available to use for capital projects or other kinds of expenses.

Other questions or comments?

Do you know when we're going to find out from the school the results of the efficiency study?

For the schools?

I do not know their schedule.

Right now, and I suspect over the next 30 or 45 days, they're beginning to get some specifics.

because I'm just wondering if we give up to 40% for the schools, but if the efficiency study shows that we can give less, is that a possibility?

I just don't have a feel for them.

I don't know how much they would be able to do with their efficiency study, given that as well.

So it's not like they're getting a whole lot anyways.

Normally that's not the case.

I think we need to look hard at making sure we don't fall further behind on critical capital needs.

Any other comments, questions?

To do I think most every locality starts trying to do that if you do it over a couple year period you can Get yourself back into some problems

I believe I also heard you say recently that one of the benchmarks that you're using in terms of evaluating capital projects that we want to continue to fund are those that have a short-term payoff when it comes to energy and resource savings.

And it's a balancing act, as you all know.

We're being asked tonight to... Dr. Brown?

and not have to be in a position of saying, why couldn't we get input from that aspect of the citizenry?

He's already on the list.

Okay.

I think our initial list was exactly what you were saying and try to open up an opportunity more broadly as well.

Try to get a lot of voices involved with the process.

There's some specific questions on the budget survey this year, both the electronic one and the one that goes out in the utility bills, about efficiency or service questions or issues that people have that will be given to the consultants as well.

Any further questions, comments, or a motion to approve the budgetary guidelines?

Mr. Mayor, I move to approve the budgetary guidelines.

And Mr. Jones.

I have an understanding of the number 30 to 50 percent, not just 50 percent.

Next on our agenda is a report on the Eastern Connector and we have with us tonight Jeanette Janicek here to present.

Can you lower this or raise the screen?

Thank you, lower fashion visuals.

So location study would help to reserve this land so that no other improvement could come as a barrier to what we're proposing here.

So you're suggesting a location study even though the county has made it clear that they're not interested in

Just the letter of support saying that the city does recognize that there are, certainly with economic times, and there are other studies out there, but the city does feel that this is important to the overall area.

What is the cost of location study?

Several hundred thousand, certainly, could be up to a million.

It's not massive.

We're not really recommending that the city put any more money in without seeing a strong show of support from the county.

You mentioned there was an urgent destination study already being done right now.

However, VDOT did the last one and it is a good way to test that your traffic modeling is working but not necessarily to answer a specific transportation question.

Because I don't think we ought to sacrifice any more park land.

I understand that.

Other thoughts?

Bike, pedestrian, transit.

might be just throwing money down a hole at this point.

I mean, address the issues that the mayor is referring to.

But the actual, what would be most useful would be an additional study of another origin destination that would really give you the amount of detail.

Or do you know?

We're going to wait until that information comes out, and then we'll test the model.

The predictions for 250 bypass are extremely high for the next 10 years and my worry is that it will just become totally jammed if this is not our alternative

There was another alternative where adding a couple more bridges across the Rivanna River from the county to the city.

I really don't see anyone wasting money doing that location study at this stage to get some more information.

Yes, and staff completely agrees not spending any more city money on this.

Is that the VDOT study that you talked about?

Now, I have not heard as to if they've identified funding for that or any timeline, simply that they would like an OND study completed before moving forward.

I think one option, go ahead Ms. Emmons.

Bikes, pedestrian, train city.

Are there any destinations to... Well, yeah, I'm not sure I would even be willing to commit city funds for that at this point.

That's my understanding.

And you could restate those conditions if you did so so well a second ago.

Crystal Rudibald.

the opportunity to tackle what we're currently faced with and look at a way to get ahead of this issue for the longer term and then to provide us with direction with regards to moving forward and the next steps and we'll go into some detail about what those next steps are and I hope you can keep in mind that there is some timing, there are some critical timing issues that we can describe and we'll have certainly time for questions and answers, so thank you.

We worked our way up.

We wanted to make sure that all the people on staff and on the advising committee...

So the money that's in here is your principal and interest payments for broadening starting about year four of a five-year program.

Regulation enforcement doesn't change too much.

that hold the public hearing and then, you know, cut them in to six or eight weeks, a vote on a utility one incident rate and if approved, this process would finalize the master account file, the billing file we would pay off a customer service because we know people are going to be calling and know what's going on and have the first bill go on the tax bill which goes out in April or May time period so, that's my little spiel, Krista's going to sum up a little bit and I'd love to answer all the questions that you have

It's the best information we've ever had to date and so we hope that you've had the time to read the committee's report and we would certainly welcome your questions and appreciate bringing this issue up, giving it some time because it's a big issue.

We are under a state mandate, I believe.

I'm going to invite Dean to come and field questions with me.

I believe we are under a state mandate to address some of the stormwater management issues that we're faced with and can you describe the extent to which that state mandate is guiding some of these recommendations in addition to the deteriorating infrastructure which you've pointed out?

So this is taking steps to show that you are understanding the system is, you're taking the right steps to maintain it and you are complying with the regulatory requirements.

And are there other Virginia localities that have adopted stormwater utility fees?

And I can certainly give you a list of who those are if you want more information.

Other questions?

So were you able, because of our mapping technology, to do this in a way that most other localities are not?

It's also very defensible, but it's not as detailed.

Would the billing just be in, only in like

You bump into the next category, but similarly if you're a large property or if you make reductions in impervious surface that may also work in your favor for reducing fees.

So if you decided you wanted to tear up your driveway and park on the street?

If it was right on that threshold it may bump you into the lower category.

To issue bonds for this, is that based on the billing portion as being like a regular stream of revenue for bonds or is it also based on the city's contribution or I mean how is that affected by where the money comes from or is it?

So probably after a year or two, you'd be eligible to do that because you'd show the revenues there, you'd bring them in, and then the city could guarantee those bonds.

I have a question Mr. O'Connell might be able to answer it.

On utility bills for electricity, don't we currently have a 10% tax on that?

Yeah, there's a utility fee that's...

I mean, I'm just trying to figure out, but that people's utility bill is just going up probably 18 to 20%, and that's increasing revenue there, I guess, right?

Right, to the general fund.

To the general fund.

...increasing their tax bill.

And to have that on water and sewer, are we doing any...do we have a tax on that also?

Mm-hmm, same thing.

So as all that goes up, people's taxes are going up on that side too, right?

Right.

And I guess what I'm getting at is kind of concerning at this point in time, because I mean we can call a user fee or whatever you want, but in actuality it's a tax.

It's not based on tax value.

Okay.

I was under the impression early on in this process that the credits would only apply to commercial properties and it sounded tonight that maybe it's broadened to include residential?

what has been done does what it says it does over the long term for it to qualify for the credit and so I would think the typical applicant or qualifying project may tend to be on the commercial side but that's not to say it excludes residential properties.

Can you give us some examples of the kinds of improvements that a property owner might make to qualify for that credit?

The goal would be to make that type of information readily available and practical and to reward not only existing properties where there are control facilities in place, but to really incentivize change on land that otherwise is fairly inaccessible in terms of stormwater management.

What about green roofs?

Similarly, rainwater harvesting, and I think you would have to consider it on a larger scale than a single 55-gallon drum, but there are many, we're seeing many proposals and ideas being talked about that really are at the scale where the effect of stormwater management can be realized.

Thank you.

The city's contribution is expected to be the same as it is now?

One notable piece is the dollars that support the current regulatory actions make sense to shift into the utility since it's driven by regulatory requirements to a large extent.

But the city's expected contribution was on the same page.

Yes, and I think we heard very strongly from a number of folks involved in the process that this had to be kind of a shared responsibility of individuals contributing to the problem and a city that's been running a program and has been in this business of some stormwater management up till now.

Is that because you've got a great consultant to come help you work on this project?

I think it's kind of a coming together of circumstances where we had really good data and really good consultant and really good staff to work on it.

I think it's a good program, and I support it.

I think it will be embraced by the community a lot better.

I think maybe if we could continue with what we are doing right now and hopefully the economy will get better then we are having more support on that in my mind from this stage.

You go.

I just need to grow a little taller.

I looked up into my own house

the best thing we can do is start with something and that's not to say we then get our foot in the door and then the door goes wide open it's to say there needs to be a process of reviewing and evaluating what about the program works and what doesn't work and then within the program there's flexibility to adjust as necessary so if we're seeing a high demand in the credit policies area if we're seeing a high demand on more public education and outreach we've got that flexibility built in the program to accommodate that

I'm curious if you see a man or if there's a good time for us to do this right now.

You know I don't.

You're sure, are you?

If you want to move this forward I'd like to walk through the timing and the schedule just so you can see what I see is the implication of it, but I'm not sure I've heard that yet.

I think it would be helpful to hear your opinion and also on the flip side, if it's true that we have at a minimum three to four million dollars of critical infrastructure improvements that we have to make anyway, how would you suggest we fund those if we don't move forward with the fee?

So there's kind of a balance and act with it, but if you really move it forward, I wanted to give you the perspective of how the timing will play out and when somebody gets their tax bill, what they're likely going to see.

Okay.

but it can be a standalone program if you want to move that forward.

It seems that, it seems so still, you know what I mean?

So the question is, is there at least support for moving forward with more public outreach and drafting of a resolution, or do we want to put a halt to that process for now and come back next year when the economy's in better shape?

What would you do when you go to public process, basically just share with them how much you

And then we could bring that back as part of the next report or the next action item.

So it means January of making a decision or not if you want to go forward.

And that's fast.

There's a different kind of discussion, I think.

that we're talking about this year whether this is the year to start it as opposed to philosophically do we want to do a fee because I think my opinion is a fee-based system is the only system that ever really gets us anywhere otherwise there will always be other things that are more visible where there's more lobbying being done to city council where it's harder to make a cut and therefore this is what gets taken aback

Well, I think that's why it's important to have

It's just a matter of how we time it and how we can embrace the community in this.

Would that help you, Mr. O'Connor?

I mean we've got the holidays in front of us.

people in the community that we need to engage and I don't know everybody in Charlottesville and so trying to figure out how to best do that public process in a short window of time would be helpful.

Is there a motion to approve these recommendations?

I move the recommendation.

Is there a second?

Second.

Craig Brown.

So I'll be happy to try to answer any questions you may have.

I would move that we adopt this policy.

Second.

I think this is just sort of fleshed out language.

Because if there is anything we could improve by this, steadily and steadily, we won't have so fallback position.

I'm not sure if we want that to be reflected in writing or if that's just sort of...

It's a good point, but I would not add it to this particular document.

I have a question.

It would be good to find out what kind of ridership there is.

Is there anybody from the public that would like to speak, Mr. Kleeman?

you know, one inch rainfall is a typical rainfall or what, but it just seems to me that there are other options that I think would be far more equitable and far more efficient economically.

Thank you Mr. Chairman.

Thank you.

Let's see, I think that's it.

The meeting's adjourned.

P.S.

Music playing...