Board of Architectural Review Meeting   12/15/2020

I just don't know if my audio is connected.

Yeah, I can hear you.

Hey, Robert, can you hear me?

This is Joe.

Okay.

For some reason, I'm going to go to make you cohost.

Thanks.

Bow tie.

And Sonia won't be able to join us, but it seems to me that other members are gonna be able to come.

Beep beep.

Oh, yikes.

Were you off for very long?

So we've got satellites around the house, but sometimes in the last few days, they've been some technical issues.

Well, I'll stand by, but yeah, I can handle things.

Thank you.

It's all about image.

Well, now I feel even more underdressed than normal.

It's all right.

Well, then good thing we're meeting digitally.

It's kind of messing me up.

So.

Please tell me the rest of you don't see like a big screen with just my face because that's what I'm seeing right now.

That's what I'm seeing.

No, no, I see a very balanced view.

Everybody okay?

Yes.

Does anybody believe this will be a shorter meeting?

Maybe.

I got excited.

If you as members look at the suggested time, you can be like, oh, dang, we're really on schedule.

Do we need to cut off Jeff when he's talking?

I'll talk a lot.

Anymore?

There was one person who threw you notes.

I mean, Zoom allows a private chat.

We were all hoping to just read right through that.

We would have made the night a little more interesting.

It's always interesting.

I think we need one more person, but I'm really tempted to get moving on this.

Sorry.

Looks like someone like trick lowered Jody's chair again, you know.

But, you know, this is a work session.

hand it over to you Carl and Breck and others and see what you think.

I think the introduction is still the same.

So it'll be just a series of formal COA reviews instead of what we were proposing before, which were these intermediary reviews.

Sorry.

It may or may not happen, but.

And in fact, I see in Section 34-284, that published notice is not required, but staff will do it anyways.

I think you don't want to handcuff a project that's really done all this due diligence and then simply say at the end, well, guess what, you got to come in here and have a perfunctory, you know, to, you know, 60 day process.

Well, it seems like if they have a complete package, and they've done the preliminary review, why would it take 60 days?

The 60 days is per code and essentially allows

It allows you that first deferral.

I wouldn't want someone to misuse the preliminary discussion as a way of circumventing public notification.

That's what, that's kind of what this paragraph.

So somebody can just ask for a preliminary discussion for as many meetings as they want?

I do say in here we talk about, you know, when if you wanted to be on there, when we have to get something in and it does go it is posted as part of the agenda on the city calendar.

move ahead or the board will not receive sufficient information to fully review your project.

Yeah.

Do you want me to email that to you?

Again, I'm

OK, OK, OK, OK.

For your email.

I guess I'll open up my email and send my comments to everyone.

Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.

I hate Gmail.

I would just love their input on some of these issues.

I'm weighing my words.

And as long as I am not violating the ordinance,

I'm not saying, Jeff, you don't understand- No, you're not.

I know you're not.

That's what I'm most concerned about that I, you know,

My plan is to get to, I think.

Yeah, I just got a copy of a law, a real estate committee, the Virginia Bar Association, and there's an entire article on vested rights, you know, and I mean, it's not a clear, easy area for me or anybody to understand.

But those are some questions that are at the end that we can get to.

How long, how much of our public body's time can it take before they have to submit a COA?

But you all could, you know, and in fact, you all could, or a BAR could ignore this policy and approve something at that first meeting because they're, as long as they don't violate the code.

So there's the... It wouldn't have been noticed and all that so, and we would not have had public hearings so we could, in most cases we can't do that.

But there's again, nothing in the ordinance that says you have to sit there for two hours.

So anyway, those are my suggestions on that level.

This is on us to, or I guess right now on me to set limits.

That's what I'd like to get out of that checklist, if you could.

The first thing we're trying to do is to

You could ignore these, or ignore them at your peril.

I think we're killing ourselves with this and there's a lot that's going to fall between the cracks.

But a lot of this is going to have to be flexible, you know, as we go.

Right.

I don't see any real controversial parts to this document that you guys have pulled together.

I could, you know, we can work towards getting this to legal and then maybe we could jump to some of my questions at the end just to get an idea of what you guys, I don't know, I don't know if they were included in it or not.

No, you've got them at the end.

Just wondering if that's something I can, you know, if we face something like that, if you'd be comfortable with that, yeah, tell the African.

Jeff, since we've got these in front of us, how about we answer those before we move on to the others?

Yeah, I wasn't following them.

I mean, it's not like you're going to keep going.

Yeah, yeah.

Anybody have a concern or preference either way?

Would that let them figure out if it was on the agenda as a preliminary discussion item?

It gets a different number.

So it seems like it, you know, tonight, almost like it's proof that that COA had its pre-application conference.

Yes, it does.

Anyone disagree?

Yeah.

We should have, we should allow comment and we should figure out when and where that happens, but yeah.

Demolition requests I also noticed have been, go ahead.

But if they happen one after the other in our meeting, I think that's fine.

That's very helpful.

And it might not include any discussion of the architecture.

But does that seem fair for me to do that?

Can you make that as part of your recommendation that this application is not yet complete and we recommend a deferral?

That's exactly what I was going to say.

OK.

And the applicant should be clear on what it is that they're coming to the BAR.

So I think they will be prepared.

Right.

all of them, sometimes you were talking about one of them.

That site was always a separate project.

But for you all, what's that tipping point at when something becomes definite new?

Does anybody?

Seems like if it's a change to something that's approved that is under construction that should stay under the same COA.

Once you've had the CO, then it's new, okay?

If it's a new element, it seems like it should be like the, I don't know, the gate at the code building that ended up being a new, that was a new COA?

God, that's a toughie.

I think the trickier part are some of those late, sometimes late, I think we agreed landscape would not be needed to be as part of a COA and lighting needs to be part of a COA, but signage, what do we design on signage?

but I don't, I think I, but I, and I made it a new application.

Cause I mean, often you get a building before you get a tenant sometimes.

But usually, you know, like potbelly pay or whatever wants to put up a sign, I review that and apply the guidelines.

Nobody's going to have their signage figured out before they need their building.

There isn't really an instructions on that.

Or whatever.

you know, throwing up things during the meeting.

You got the note on the chat that please do include in this little in your review process document that during a pre-application conference, the applicant needs to bring questions.

What do they want to know?

So we're saying that we will take a short break and then.

Anything on the agenda that you all have any questions about?

So is it specifically just looking at that one elevation drawing that they have?

I'd like to know what they're wanting to look at.

So that's something you can ask them right from the get-go.

There's nothing else.

And that's the extent of what they provided, yes.

So this might be a little bit of a repeat of last time, just to make sure that they understand exactly what we want.

That's what he wanted to ask.

Jeff, is Tim the owner?

No, Tim the more.

Oh, our Tim.

So does that help with that?

Yeah, I wonder if, Jeff, since you've had recent adventures with ground-planning radar, I wonder if that would be something that might be part of a phase one archaeological overview, just to see if there's any interesting structures that might require more investigation.

No, I don't think that's a good idea.

I think if they were to paint it carefully to match the brick and trim, it would go away or a small enclosure.

Even if it doesn't have access on the north side, there's got to be a way to make that building look permeable because Jody used the best word years ago for that one.

And this is twice as long, potentially.

We don't want something just for trash cans and people on a smoke break, but those are the kind of things you can talk about.

So I think we need, if the BAR agrees, I want to be emphatic of why this needs to comply with the ADC requirements.

I think seven years ago when I first got on the board,

So, I mean, we review new construction.

I don't want to say ignore that, but just so you all know, I know we elected our chair and vice chair on different, not in November, but we can just recognize that that's what we're supposed to be doing and we can make sure we do that next year.

Oh, that, gee, surprise, surprise.

And that way I can get that incorporated into the thing.

Give me a deadline, please.

I was going to say, I think we could probably take Jody.

I will not do it until I know I have to.

And with that, Mr. Chair, I hand it to you.

Let's just take a break.

Break.

Oh, I can't get my camera set.

To anybody, any members of the public who are on the call, we're going to take a break until 5.30, and then we'll reconvene for the regular agenda.

We're all going to watch Carl's kittens, right?

Yes, a break indeed.

There we go.

That was a long walk.

It seems frightening.

Winter storm.

Yes.

So if you have, if you just send it to Robert, he can look up the numbers and if you have the addresses, let me know and I can look it up.

It's not in Charlottesville, it's up near Warrenton.

I'm just coming back.

What property is this?

It's interesting.

like near the Country Club or whatever it is down there.

This is near Auburn or Catlett.

Cool.

I was complimenting Sonya on her tree.

Oh, thank you.

Hey, can y'all hear me?

Yeah, we can hear you.

I had to get a loaner, so I'm on my plug-in headphones, which I don't know if they have a microphone or not.

It doesn't sound like the microphone is in the headphones.

Fortunately, Jody checked out a conference room, so he doesn't have to hear me shout.

I haven't been at work in months.

They would be all on this BAR call.

So I will hand things over to Carl Schwartz, but if there anything else that comes up tonight, feel free to ask me.

So if anyone has any comments that are not pertaining to items on our agenda, now would be the time.

We can add them later, but it's not.

It will be late, so if you want to speak, now would be the time.

I'm looking at the list and I don't see any raised hands.

I'll note that the preliminary discussion item is the combined quartz parking structure on East Market Street.

Okay.

So yeah, our first application will be 612 West Market Street, West Main Street.

Hand it over to Mr. Dreyfus and take it from here.

Good evening, everybody.

Thank you.

So.

And Jeff, if you can just direct me to the specific pages, I can go to your addendum that you submitted as well.

This is a little bit more fluid for me.

Yeah, I understand.

While Robert's looking, I just want to know for the record that Ron Bailey joined the meeting prior to this application starting.

But I didn't set up the Zoom meeting.

Oh, this doesn't look to be what we sent on the 8th, Robert.

Yeah.

So if that's not clear, please let me know.

Please raise your hand or press star nine.

I'm looking at the list and I don't see any raised hands.

Again, please raise your hand or press star nine.

Okay.

Comments from the board.

So you can pull them up if you want to look at a specific image that I'm not sharing on the screen.

OK.

Thanks.

Brecht, are you referring to the front block kind of putting a false facade up on the fourth level?

The portion that stepped back behind the entry plaza?

On the back portion?

Yeah, that's...

And I think it shows a lot of success in meeting the kinds of concerns I had last time.

So thank you.

Thanks.

So I'm just wondering if that might be an exercise worth kind of playing with with us.

So.

The hotel actually has been recessed, but then still has columns out in front, which may help break up that horizontality.

So it might be that we can do that on a small basis at those entries that have a door in it or something like that.

Thank you.

Jeff, I think you make a good point that the zoning did want this to be a three-story district and that I'm not sure we'd benefit from added height on the street front facade.

I found those renderings pretty compelling to the points that Jeff was making about the transition to the larger 600 West Main.

I mean, there is a nice stepping quality there.

But those could be moments of landscape space where there's either a change in material or added vegetation or combination with a future street tree of thinking about ways that that is also breaking up that long block into several spaces.

I think you guys need to have in your back pocket a plan B for should West Main Street streetscape project not actually happen.

I think that's a bit of a challenge, but I think that's the best way for us to all proceed.

But you could make it look B so obvious about where those street trees need to go that it makes it easy for those designers.

But I think that's a great way to think about it.

Again, I don't know how to resolve that, but that's just, it's in the back of my mind is something to be worried about.

We don't want this standing there with no trees or no greenery with the assumption that they're coming and they don't come for 40 years.

Do you feel comfortable moving on for your next submission?

And so we'll take the few concerns we heard tonight and keep pushing forward in this direction.

Do we have a motion to accept the deferral?

Langel?

Aye.

Mr. McClure.

Aye.

Mr. Gastinger.

Aye.

Lewis.

Aye.

And Mr. Schwartz.

Yes.

Thank you very much.

And we seem to be

But first, Jeff can give his staff report.

So, and I would ask, I mean, I know Ryan's available, not Ryan, but the, if you all have, are okay with it, I think he's ready to answer any questions if you didn't wanna, if you weren't comfortable with the project overall, but so I don't know, with the difficulty with communicating with him, Robert, but I don't think they have a presentation otherwise, you know, other than what we've offered in the staff report.

Okay, sorry.

All right.

Please raise your hand or press star 9.

Questions from the board?

James?

Just to confirm on that sketch, the overall width of that pipe chase is 24 inches, correct?

But that's correct.

Please raise your hand or press star 9.

All right.

And yeah, I'd be OK with that.

Or do you like us to follow up with a sample or a submittal once we get the paint finalized?

Yeah.

But yeah, we could definitely submit it to Jeff.

I think, I mean, as far as I'm concerned, just as long as it's not, you know, cherry red, I think you're right.

And I would suggest that the conduit be painted white where it's crossing white trim and the brick red where it's against brick.

No?

I would be concerned that it might get a little fussy, but that's just me.

Either way.

I don't have strong feelings about it, but I had thought it would match the white trim that's already on that building and would emphasize that to some extent rather.

Anyone want to take that?

element on the building other than the massive columns on Market Street.

I understand.

Just a thought.

Would it be possible to get the conduits in a darker metal, perhaps, than just aluminum?

Other than that, I don't know if a steel jacket or steel conduit would be potentially less shiny than the aluminum, but I could definitely see what the options were for that assembly.

I would be happy to go ahead and go with Carl.

And just to be sure, we are okay, painting these is not a problem, correct?

Great.

You guys can make me do this.

The condition that they painted to a close color to the existing brick to be approved by staff.

Second.

Lengel?

Aye.

And Mr. Bailey?

Yes.

Thank you.

Well, thank you, Ryan.

Thanks again.

See you.

Thanks again.

Next item on the agenda is 350 Park Street.

What?

Do I have the wrong agenda?

or I'll just say I didn't write a staff report.

Item three.

I have not got it in my brain as.

Levee building.

Like going, oh, my God.

All the time on street numbers like, oh, you should know which project it is.

Nope, okay, now I'll turn it over to Eric and take it away.

Or would you rather I share my screen of the measured drawings?

Sure.

But I think that what they've provided is fine and suggest that you all accept it.

And Eric, I can go to a specific drawing within this.

Any questions on that before we move on to archaeology?

Eric, does this building have a basement?

That's the little stairway that goes down into the basement level.

Correct.

So those would be my sort of two questions back for Jeff is the specific area that we're talking about and how emotion actually might be worded so I can explain this to the county.