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  • Planning Commission Work Session 6/23/2026
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Planning Commission Work Session   6/23/2026

Attachments
  • Planning Commission Agenda - June 23, 2026.pdf
  • Planning Commission Agenda Packet - June 23, 2026.pdf
  • I. Commission Work Session

    • 1. Development Code Listening Session with Local Builders and Developers

      • 2026 Development Code Amendment Log (WORKING DOC)_June_12_2026.pdf
      • Executive_Summary_of Code Amendment Issues as of June 12, 2026.pdf
      • PRESENTATION - PC Work Session Code Clean-up June 23, 2026.pdf
      • Staff Memo - Development Code Listening Session.pdf
  • II. Future Meeting Schedule/Adjournment

    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:03:12
      Welcome everyone to our zoning code listening session.
    • 00:03:21
      We're going to give everybody three minutes to make their comments about the zoning code.
    • 00:03:27
      Matt's going to introduce, do an introduction for the process that we're expecting to hear.
    • 00:03:32
      But if you can't get your comments in three minutes, please do email us.
    • 00:03:37
      It's planningcommission at charleshole.gov.
    • 00:03:42
      We're going to save.
    • 00:03:44
      So after everybody has their comments, I'm going to let staff respond if they want to.
    • 00:03:51
      And then the Planning Commission, if anybody has anything they want to add, you're welcome to do.
    • 00:03:56
      You don't have to.
    • 00:03:58
      Let's go.
    • Matt AlfeleDevelopment Planning Manager
    • 00:03:59
      All right.
    • 00:04:00
      Thank you, Chair.
    • 00:04:01
      I'm Matt Alfley, the Development Planning Manager, and this is the Planning Commission work session, our listening session for our local builders and developers.
    • 00:04:12
      And next slide.
    • 00:04:14
      So as you are aware, this is the 2026 code cleanup cycle.
    • 00:04:22
      And just to recap, our inaugural year was the 2025 cycle where we completed 83 amendments to the development code.
    • 00:04:29
      They were small technical corrections and just small refinements to the code.
    • 00:04:35
      It was in a three tiered system.
    • 00:04:37
      where we were focusing on tier one and tier two and tier three were policy issues that we as a group were gathering.
    • 00:04:46
      And those issues are worked into the larger NDS work plan to be focused on for community engagement with our long range planning team.
    • 00:04:58
      So we are approaching this as the development planning team.
    • 00:05:01
      So we are focused just on the development code
    • 00:05:04
      And our long-range planning team is focused more on policy than community management.
    • 00:05:11
      These amendments that were approved, they were adopted in March of this year.
    • 00:05:17
      And to keep consistency, we are aiming for a year-to-year March-to-March.
    • 00:05:24
      code adoption.
    • 00:05:25
      So we're looking to do this each year and have a public hearing and planning commission toward the end of the year.
    • 00:05:32
      Early the following year have a
    • 00:05:35
      Public Hearing with City Council and then have an effective date of March.
    • 00:05:40
      And we're really doing this just to be consistent.
    • 00:05:44
      The way our code is formatted, it is not as user-friendly and it becomes, we are worried about kind of just version control.
    • 00:05:56
      So having a March to March version control is one way we're addressing this.
    • 00:06:00
      We're looking into other options and making the codes better
    • 00:06:03
      more accessible for current versions with those multiple paths we're on.
    • 00:06:09
      We have a subcommittee that is working with this.
    • 00:06:13
      We had our kickoff meeting with that hopefully a month and a half ago.
    • 00:06:17
      The next subcommittee meeting is going to be July 9th.
    • 00:06:30
      And that subcommittee is going to be focusing on, that meeting will be focused on the build to setback and active depth issues.
    • 00:06:41
      And I'm sure that'll continue into a future planning commission work session when it comes out of that meeting.
    • 00:06:46
      Next slide.
    • 00:06:48
      For this year's cycle,
    • 00:06:50
      We are not doing the tiered approach that did cause, I think, a lot of confusion within the community, especially because there are a lot of policy issues I think a lot of people wanted to talk about.
    • 00:07:02
      And because we are in very close communication with our developers and the community, we felt we were in a good position to hear those larger policy issues and to gather them so that the NDS director could work those into a larger work plan.
    • 00:07:17
      But the tier, I think, created a little more confusion.
    • 00:07:19
      So we're going away from the tier this year and really focusing on this being a code cleanup and really focusing kind of on the terms of clarification, technical fixes and refinements.
    • 00:07:31
      That's really what this is about.
    • 00:07:33
      Again, we still can collect these larger policy issues.
    • 00:07:36
      They will still be tracked on our tracking log and they will hopefully be worked into future NDS larger work plans.
    • 00:07:45
      Next slide.
    • 00:07:50
      So tonight's purpose is we want to hear directly from our local builders, developers, and the public and how they interact with the code.
    • 00:07:58
      We want to help identify any unclear inconsistencies in the code, gather technical feedback that we can use in this 2026 code cycle.
    • 00:08:09
      And again, we'll hear from larger issues, but it's more about documentation on the larger issues.
    • 00:08:16
      Next slide.
    • 00:08:19
      These are the three questions we're kind of looking for to be addressed this evening.
    • 00:08:23
      You know, one by sharing how you use the development code, you know, what relationship do you have to what parts of the code are creating confusion?
    • 00:08:31
      And then also, as last year, I think it's very important to hear what parts of the code are working.
    • 00:08:36
      So we make sure we don't inadvertently mess up those parts of the code that we actually think are doing well.
    • 00:08:41
      Because a lot of times the things that are doing well, we don't hear about and they get
    • 00:08:45
      We don't want to make sure that those things don't get changed.
    • 00:08:48
      The other thing I want to add, go to the next slide.
    • 00:08:50
      We're going to go back.
    • 00:08:51
      We'll leave this up.
    • 00:08:52
      We'll go to the public's turn to speak.
    • 00:08:55
      So, and then you click on the link.
    • 00:08:58
      So one of the other things I wanted to share is we do have a public facing page for this.
    • 00:09:08
      But we have on the city's website, under NDS, under
    • 00:09:12
      Development Review, there is a code cleanup website that lays out what this process is, the general time frame, and if you scroll down you'll kind of, it's there to the left, yeah you're on it.
    • 00:09:27
      And then the other important thing is we have a Connect Charlottesville page that you can reach from this, if you click on that Patrick.
    • 00:09:37
      And this is where the public can follow the process.
    • 00:09:39
      This is where documents will be stored, where there can be feedback.
    • 00:09:43
      So we encourage the public to use this along with any planning commissioners or city council, if they would like.
    • 00:09:50
      This is going to be kind of our homepage for this process.
    • 00:09:56
      And with that, if you can kind of go back to the slide and pull up those three questions.
    • 00:10:13
      All right.
    • 00:10:13
      And with that, Chair, I'll turn it over to you to hear from the public, but I'm here to answer any questions or provide any feedback.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:10:20
      Thank you.
    • 00:10:20
      And just as a reminder to anybody who trickled in after we started, everyone's going to get three minutes to talk.
    • 00:10:25
      I'm going to try and prevent, I'd like to not have any back and forth, so you guys want me to talk.
    • 00:10:30
      If somebody has a
    • 00:10:32
      State something that's blatantly misunderstood about the code.
    • 00:10:37
      I'm going to let staff respond to that.
    • 00:10:38
      But generally, we'll just try to let everyone get their comments in in three minutes.
    • 00:10:43
      And after that, I'm going to give staff a chance to respond.
    • 00:10:46
      And then the Planning Commission gets a chance to weigh in if they would like.
    • Matt AlfeleDevelopment Planning Manager
    • 00:10:51
      And Chair, we do have a sign-in sheet, but we definitely have an audience, I think, small enough.
    • 00:10:54
      You're welcome to call on Dan and we'll control the online version.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:11:00
      Well, Penn, you have the sign-in sheet?
    • 00:11:02
      Everybody came in late.
    • 00:11:04
      Okay.
    • 00:11:05
      Are there any names on it?
    • 00:11:06
      I advertise it whenever we get to start.
    • 00:11:08
      Are there any names on it?
    • SPEAKER_02
    • 00:11:12
      Everyone's going to be able to see it.
    • 00:11:15
      It's like two minutes.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:11:18
      Well, yeah.
    • 00:11:20
      Do we have anyone online?
    • 00:11:21
      Just out of curiosity.
    • SPEAKER_03
    • 00:11:22
      We have two attendees.
    • 00:11:24
      I'll just say that if anyone would like to speak and they are viewing online, they can just click the raise hand icon at any time and keep it raised.
    • 00:11:32
      And I'll introduce them and then they can be unmuted.
    • 00:11:36
      Okay.
    • 00:11:37
      Anybody in the room would like to go first?
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:11:43
      This could be a really good scene.
    • SPEAKER_02
    • 00:11:45
      I will.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:11:47
      All right, do we, do the speakers pick her up there or does she need to go to the podium?
    • 00:11:51
      My phone's working all over the entire room, so.
    • Hosea MitchellMember, Planning Commission
    • 00:11:54
      She would be happy if they would stand though, if they're able to stand.
    • 00:11:58
      Sure, we might not hear.
    • 00:11:59
      Right.
    • 00:12:00
      Yeah, yeah.
    • SPEAKER_02
    • 00:12:02
      Well, maybe I'll do it this way.
    • SPEAKER_04
    • 00:12:05
      We can hear you.
    • SPEAKER_02
    • 00:12:07
      Rebecca Quinn, downtown Albemarle resident.
    • 00:12:13
      So, I do come in late.
    • 00:12:14
      When you say the development code,
    • 00:12:17
      Are there particular chapters that we can pull up like on UNICO to know which ones you're talking about?
    • 00:12:23
      Or is it, when I pull up chapter 34, I don't get much.
    • 00:12:31
      Which chapters, which sections was not part of the previous engagement?
    • 00:12:40
      That's my question.
    • Matt AlfeleDevelopment Planning Manager
    • 00:12:44
      I'll take that, Chair.
    • 00:12:46
      So on the city's website, it's Chapter 34, which is our development code.
    • 00:12:51
      And this process is the code cleanup.
    • 00:12:54
      So it is about changing any sort of technical or small refinements to that.
    • 00:12:58
      It's not about major policy changes.
    • 00:13:01
      The best example I'll give is a policy change would be if we felt
    • 00:13:05
      You know, there needed to be another engagement with the community about the allowable max height in, say, the RA district.
    • 00:13:13
      That would not fall in this.
    • 00:13:14
      That would be something that would need to be a larger community-led community engagement.
    • SPEAKER_02
    • 00:13:18
      I got that.
    • 00:13:19
      Now I see that MUNI code links to the city web page.
    • 00:13:22
      So you're not touching subdivision, streets or sidewalks,
    • 00:13:28
      just Chapter 34.
    • Matt AlfeleDevelopment Planning Manager
    • 00:13:29
      Chapter 34, I will say there probably will be some spillover because there are some parts of the other code sections that reference things like the NDS director when engineering used to be in that department.
    • 00:13:43
      And so we're gonna try to get those cleaned up too so it's more consistent.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:13:55
      Yes, sir?
    • 00:13:57
      And Dan or Patrick, do you guys have control of the clock?
    • 00:14:00
      Yes.
    • 00:14:01
      Remi does.
    • 00:14:03
      Oh, Remi does.
    • 00:14:03
      Okay.
    • SPEAKER_05
    • 00:14:06
      Hi, I'm Eric Sartin.
    • 00:14:08
      I work for Evergreen Home Builders and I was very involved with the Bill Faded Olbermann Road project.
    • 00:14:16
      That was one of the first ones to try to get implemented under the new building codes.
    • 00:14:22
      And I will say before my comments that I have not gone through the new revised, rewritten, edited code.
    • 00:14:30
      So some of what I'm about to say may have already been covered.
    • 00:14:35
      The first two issues, which are actually interrelated, have to do with building width.
    • 00:14:42
      There are two, what are in my opinion, conflicting requirements.
    • 00:14:46
      The build to width minimum of 65%.
    • 00:14:51
      And this is in reference to residential B specifically, and it may cover some of the other zonings as well, but that was what we were working under.
    • 00:15:05
      the build-to-width minimum requirement of 65% of road frontage, and then the building width maximum of 60 feet.
    • 00:15:14
      Our property was 95 feet wide, and it must fail one of those two requirements.
    • 00:15:25
      That seems like an oversight.
    • 00:15:26
      Seems like maybe just a more max width type of language could be added to clear that up.
    • 00:15:35
      And then the second issue related to what qualifies as a building.
    • 00:15:41
      We were proposing three townhouses to front von Aldermen.
    • 00:15:46
      We were told that they must be considered a single building, which is what led to the max width issue because it wasn't three townhomes, it was one building.
    • 00:15:58
      However, if you read the massing section, massing 2.10.10.A.3.B reads, two buildings may abut one another provided that they have no shared components and are structurally independent from one another.
    • 00:16:17
      It's our belief that townhomes qualify under that
    • 00:16:22
      we were told that they don't.
    • 00:16:26
      So just some clarification on that would be helpful.
    • 00:16:31
      And I will say as a side, oh, actually I'm almost out of time.
    • 00:16:35
      The last thing I will say is we were also threatened lawsuit by the neighbors.
    • 00:16:40
      So something in the code to say this supersedes all existing neighborhood covenants or to say it explicitly does not supersede
    • 00:16:56
      A string of lawsuits out into the future.
    • 00:16:58
      Last thing I'll mention is that threshold for major development needs to be raised, if at all possible, because basically you have to go through all the steps to create an entire neighborhood just to develop one parcel.
    • 00:17:12
      That's what we found out.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:17:14
      Thank you.
    • 00:17:15
      Are there any hands raised online?
    • 00:17:18
      Not at this time.
    • 00:17:19
      Okay.
    • 00:17:21
      Anybody else in the room?
    • SPEAKER_07
    • 00:17:30
      This won't take three minutes.
    • 00:17:32
      Anson Parker, I live in Fifeville and I'm the house manager of the McGuffey Arts Center.
    • 00:17:37
      I have a relatively unbridled passion for standardized business process models.
    • 00:17:45
      So if you're, yeah, they're wonderful, right?
    • 00:17:48
      Like they're a great thing.
    • 00:17:49
      So if you were looking for small technical innovations, that would be a feature that could be useful because if you standardize them,
    • 00:18:02
      It would be kind of a visual way for people to be like that sort of thing.
    • 00:18:07
      Done.
    • 00:18:08
      Oh, and SPIFF Workflow.
    • 00:18:09
      Actually, this is worth noting that we do have like global experts in the region in Stanton, which is kind of a wild thing to have like globally recognized business process model notation experts live in Stanton.
    • 00:18:23
      So just something to consider.
    • 00:18:24
      And yeah, lastly, I guess I think there is some citizen input that would be like interested in that.
    • 00:18:30
      We're working over at the Code for Seville and Center for Civic Innovation and this stuff.
    • 00:18:34
      So in case anybody else is interested there.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:18:39
      Thank you.
    • SPEAKER_01
    • 00:18:56
      Hello, everyone.
    • 00:18:57
      It seems unusual because the Planning Commission is still my happy spot.
    • 00:19:00
      So it's really good to see all of you.
    • 00:19:02
      And thank you for what you do.
    • 00:19:04
      I'm really here to remind you that historic preservation is part of development.
    • 00:19:08
      Some people don't think so, but when you are adapting a historic building or an older building and when you're adding onto it and when you're infilling on a historic property or in a historic district, that's part of historic preservation.
    • 00:19:20
      We don't want to be left out of the development process.
    • 00:19:23
      Reparable preservation is as much a part of planning as transportation and housing and economic development.
    • 00:19:29
      We're just part of the whole ball of wax.
    • 00:19:31
      So please remember that when you review things.
    • 00:19:36
      Some of the things that Matt talked about, I very much agree with the setback and active death of the Bill 2.
    • 00:19:43
      Tim and I came in and had a session to talk about what some of these things meant for our property and was very positive, thanks to Kerry and
    • 00:19:52
      a whole myriad of staff that were there.
    • 00:19:54
      It's a kind of daunting process, but it went very well, and I was very pleased with that.
    • 00:20:00
      But still, Tim and I are professionals in this stuff, and this code is really hard for people to understand.
    • 00:20:05
      We had to spend the whole afternoon and we had to have our own work sessions, like what does this mean and what do you think?
    • 00:20:10
      So I think that
    • 00:20:11
      As well as having this listening session, you need to have some things that explain this to neighborhoods.
    • 00:20:16
      I happened to be at the First Baptist Church last night, and people really had no understanding or preparation for this code.
    • 00:20:23
      And so it might not be new to you anymore, but it's still very new.
    • 00:20:27
      And Hosea and I are colleagues on the Board of Zoning Appeals, and we've had people come, neighbors who are very concerned.
    • 00:20:34
      about RB.
    • 00:20:35
      They did not understand that this was possible in their neighborhoods.
    • 00:20:38
      And they did not see it as an opportunity.
    • 00:20:40
      And I would say personally, those RB sites are kind of scattered around.
    • 00:20:43
      They don't really make a lot of sense.
    • 00:20:45
      And a lot of those were just because of the width of the lot on a primary street.
    • 00:20:50
      No concern for the depth if you might be at an intersection, just that width.
    • 00:20:55
      And I sort of feel victimized by that myself because my neighbors across the street are RB and the rest of my block is RA.
    • 00:21:02
      So a lot of that didn't make sense.
    • 00:21:04
      and I never thought that the consultants spent enough time on the ground, proving our city and understanding what makes Charlottesville Charlottesville.
    • 00:21:12
      There really, there was a concern about low wealth neighborhoods, calling them core neighborhoods or sensitive or RNA.
    • 00:21:20
      But other than that, there was no concern for natural environmental resources, cultural resources, historic resources.
    • 00:21:26
      So I think that's still really a deficit in this,
    • 00:21:32
      in this ordinance.
    • 00:21:36
      Let's see, I had a couple of other things.
    • 00:21:39
      And then beyond that, this whole thing of student housing, it's confusing and it's to the detriment of traditional and historic neighborhoods, which by definition are within a half mile of central grounds.
    • 00:21:53
      So my preference would be, and I know there's been some discussion, I think at the council level of doing away with that category,
    • 00:22:01
      And that would be my first choice.
    • 00:22:04
      And my second one would be to define that in city terms, not University of Virginia terms, so that it is key to a map just like everything else is on a map so that there's no confusion and people have predictability.
    • 00:22:16
      Thank you.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:22:17
      Thank you.
    • Matt AlfeleDevelopment Planning Manager
    • 00:22:26
      Anybody else?
    • SPEAKER_13
    • 00:22:33
      Good evening.
    • 00:22:34
      Neil Williamson with the Free Enterprise Forum.
    • 00:22:37
      I'm here to talk about what we're not supposed to talk about.
    • 00:22:41
      It is back when the code was approved and we were adamantly in favor of it with reservations.
    • 00:22:50
      We were told point blank by the current NDS director at that time, this is not the last zoning code Charlottesville is going to have.
    • 00:22:58
      So then we went through the cleanup phases of tier one and tier two, which somehow got people upset because we didn't deal with tier three last year.
    • 00:23:07
      And so now we're going to get rid of the tier program, but we're not going to deal with tier three.
    • 00:23:11
      We're just going to ignore it.
    • 00:23:12
      It's going to be something we're going to talk about in the work plan, which will come out when the NDS director is hired, when they get their feet wet, when things get going.
    • 00:23:21
      I think it's incumbent upon the planning commission to talk about the things that are big policy issues that should be talked about.
    • 00:23:28
      I talked to many people with regard to the affordable housing provisions and the inclusionary zoning requirements and adjusting those numbers based upon the very same data that was used, data points that was used in original numbers but were five years later than the original numbers.
    • 00:23:46
      We believe those numbers have changed.
    • 00:23:48
      In addition, we continue to have concerns with 99 years being the term.
    • 00:23:53
      We prefer the federal term of 30 years.
    • 00:23:56
      The other issue that I think needs to be talked about, and I'm not sure where it is, with the impending departure of your NDS director, I understood that Ms. Brown was working on examining the stormwater regulations that in Charlottesville require 6,000 square feet of disturbance and the entire state of Virginia likes 10,000.
    • 00:24:18
      That makes a big difference for small projects, small infill projects that could be providing housing, which is really the goal, I thought,
    • 00:24:26
      of the zoning ordinance.
    • 00:24:28
      And I'm hopeful that that exercise, that I'm certain Ms. Brown was efforting and she briefed you on it about three months ago, will continue to move forward.
    • 00:24:38
      I'm just asking you to have some urgency with these policy issues because they do matter.
    • 00:24:43
      Thank you for the opportunity to speak.
    • 00:24:45
      Thank you.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:24:53
      Still no one online?
    • SPEAKER_00
    • 00:24:57
      I'd like to echo and say thanks to, oh, I'm sorry.
    • 00:25:12
      Yeah, let's start at the beginning.
    • 00:25:15
      Lakshmi, L-A-K-S-H-M-I, Fjord, F-J-O-R-D.
    • 00:25:24
      I'm a resident of Fifeville and I would like to
    • 00:25:27
      echo and add to what Jenny said about the confusions about UVA housing.
    • 00:25:36
      So I think the whole city is completely confused about UVA housing because then we find out actually, let's say the mark is not UVA housing.
    • 00:25:48
      It's possible UVA housing for third and fourth years, but it's also kind of a boarding house that anyone could have a bed and pay for a bed in.
    • 00:25:58
      So how can we be told this is UVA housing?
    • 00:26:03
      I don't know what it says in the code about UVA housing, so forgive me.
    • 00:26:08
      I will try to read up.
    • 00:26:10
      But I don't think it serves anyone to be saying that this is about UVA housing.
    • 00:26:15
      It creates a lot of anger and upset.
    • 00:26:18
      Is UVA taking over every single piece of ground when UVA for the mark is not involved?
    • 00:26:24
      But UVA housing is being termed.
    • 00:26:27
      what that project is.
    • 00:26:29
      I also am very concerned that that project has not once or anyone mentioned the storm water and flooding that already occurs from that site, that exact site because of its elevation.
    • 00:26:44
      There is massive flooding already from runoff because it's a hill and it's got forest on it now
    • 00:26:53
      but there is a river basically, not, but a flood going on behind the 7th Street houses on the east side and then it is going down into Dice and then it's going down into the stream and the wetlands that's behind Dice Street, if it's on the south side, and then Seven and a Half Street on their east side.
    • 00:27:19
      I like cardinal directions.
    • 00:27:22
      I hope that that's helpful.
    • 00:27:23
      But why could you possibly expect to build something there that takes away all the forest and never once have any reason or the city even looking at this issue, which will be all hardscape.
    • 00:27:39
      So it will be a huge increase of runoff.
    • 00:27:43
      So those are just two of the issues that I think are very important.
    • 00:27:47
      I don't know if that is strictly the code.
    • 00:27:50
      Please correct me.
    • 00:27:52
      but I think that they're just so important and they're actually really causing a lot of harm.
    • 00:27:58
      So thank you.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:27:59
      Thank you.
    • Nicole ScroGallifrey Builds
    • 00:28:10
      Hey, my name is Nicole Scrow.
    • 00:28:13
      I'm a real estate developer and a land use attorney.
    • 00:28:16
      I interact with the code.
    • 00:28:18
      In two hats, I do consulting for sometimes random homeowners who want to know what the value of their property is with the new ordinance.
    • 00:28:27
      And then also as an applicant.
    • 00:28:31
      Yeah, one approved, one in the process, and I'm five that I'm analyzing that we own.
    • 00:28:36
      Okay, so I think that's a lot that's working, actually.
    • 00:28:41
      I will say I mostly deal with small-scale infill.
    • 00:28:47
      The larger buildings is kind of a little bit, I defer to the architects.
    • 00:28:51
      I think they've mentioned up to depth as something that matters.
    • 00:28:54
      But for my role, it's more small scale.
    • 00:28:58
      The most important thing is just processes moving along.
    • 00:29:01
      I have to be able to tell people this can get done in X amount of time with some amount of confidence.
    • 00:29:07
      And that's been hard recently.
    • 00:29:08
      People need to plan and financially plan and
    • 00:29:13
      But that's changing and getting better.
    • 00:29:15
      So that's really cool to see.
    • 00:29:17
      OK, the three detail-oriented ones are sublats in X zones.
    • 00:29:22
      Please, please, please do that.
    • 00:29:25
      There are projects in X zones or properties in X zones that are small parcels that are not going to be big, larger projects.
    • 00:29:35
      It would be beneficial to utilize stop lots.
    • 00:29:37
      So stop lots in X zones, please, please, please.
    • 00:29:39
      Utilities.
    • 00:29:41
      We've been able to have a 20-foot access way for fire, but it's 30 feet for an extension of a sewer main.
    • 00:29:48
      That's a lot.
    • 00:29:50
      I know there are reasons for it, but the tension between utilities and building on these small lots is something to explore.
    • 00:29:57
      Front yards and parking in front yards.
    • 00:30:00
      You guys kind of banned it.
    • 00:30:02
      I get why.
    • 00:30:03
      but maybe revisiting some relaxation of that would help.
    • 00:30:10
      That's about it for the details.
    • 00:30:13
      I wanna say, please keep working.
    • 00:30:15
      This is hard, but you guys are doing a good job as best you can.
    • 00:30:20
      And I don't know, thank you.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:30:24
      Thank you.
    • 00:30:28
      Nicole, if you've got a specific example of where the parking is for the small properties, if you want to email us, that might be useful, just to see the word.
    • 00:30:38
      Technically, it's not working out.
    • 00:30:40
      Okay.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:30:41
      Okay.
    • 00:30:41
      Thank you.
    • SPEAKER_20
    • 00:30:49
      I'm Bobbi Williams.
    • 00:30:53
      I live on Park JPA.
    • 00:30:56
      Because everybody probably knows we do have some developments that have been initiated and are being completed.
    • 00:31:05
      Everything that we objected to was sort of pushed aside.
    • 00:31:13
      There was no traffic assessment before it was started.
    • 00:31:19
      They did say they did one, but it was in August.
    • 00:31:24
      when students don't exist.
    • 00:31:28
      So the pedestrian traffic and the regular traffic, we questioned those findings.
    • 00:31:40
      We heard that there was a setback set in the code.
    • 00:31:46
      So far that setback has not been reached with one of the properties.
    • 00:31:53
      One of the other ones is, we were told that this was to be initially affordable housing within the set of the codes.
    • 00:32:08
      Both of these are student housing properties now.
    • 00:32:14
      So there is no affordable housing within it.
    • 00:32:18
      We asked to have some maybe,
    • 00:32:21
      student affordable housing units put in them.
    • 00:32:25
      I don't believe that's happened.
    • 00:32:27
      We have asked about whether there is anything for impaired students or ADA parts of it.
    • 00:32:40
      I haven't seen that any of those have any ADA sets ups.
    • 00:32:47
      We have been,
    • 00:32:50
      essentially, and we feel like we are a small community of occupied, as far as owner occupied housing in the area.
    • 00:33:00
      We admit that, but we don't see how this is solving the student leaving the other properties and coming into this.
    • 00:33:12
      How will a $600 a night or a month
    • 00:33:18
      bedroom in a three-bedroom house, why would they move to a 1,500 a month unit in a new building?
    • 00:33:33
      We don't feel like that that is going to help our local community.
    • 00:33:38
      So just to let you know, we aren't happy.
    • 00:33:42
      And I don't know if there's going to be anything we can do about it.
    • 00:33:48
      but I did get to say my thing.
    • 00:33:50
      I raised my voice.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:34:00
      Good afternoon.
    • Rosia Parker
    • 00:34:08
      My name is Rosia Parker.
    • 00:34:10
      I am one of those people that was at FBC last night with no understanding as to what the zoning code is.
    • 00:34:17
      I've watched the zoning code change over the years where before it was things couldn't be put into core neighborhoods as to where the core neighborhoods aren't really important anymore.
    • 00:34:29
      The historic places aren't important anymore.
    • 00:34:32
      Like the markets coming right up behind First Baptist.
    • 00:34:34
      None of these developers have come into our community and have spoken to us like the LV Collective, West Haven.
    • 00:34:41
      We've watched the standards come in.
    • 00:34:43
      We've watched all of those
    • 00:34:45
      Luxury apartments for the students come around us and we're underneath, we're 20 feet under.
    • 00:34:50
      So it's like, where do the black neighborhoods or the people of color or low income neighborhoods, what is their ordinance or where is it a place for us to be able to live and not be displaced?
    • 00:35:08
      You know, it's like every year it's something different.
    • 00:35:12
      And these people have already come in and have studied these places.
    • 00:35:15
      They have studied us for years.
    • 00:35:17
      And then the developers just come in and it's like, we that have been living here as residents for years, trying to make a living, just trying to make somewhere to live.
    • 00:35:27
      And we don't really have nowhere to live.
    • 00:35:30
      So it's like with that ordinance, could y'all please, you know, take the accountability
    • 00:35:36
      of looking at the people that are really struggling, you know, that are really living here because there's nothing really here for Charlottesville.
    • 00:35:45
      It's like basically we're being pushed out.
    • 00:35:47
      We're being pushed out into the county or other places.
    • 00:35:50
      I mean, I know everybody say affordable housing.
    • 00:35:52
      I mean, I understand that the people that work here, but look at some of the black and brown people that has been working here for years and still don't have nowhere to live.
    • 00:36:01
      But we're definitely looking at constantly luxury, luxury, luxury,
    • 00:36:05
      We got that hotel just getting ready to come down on Preston Avenue.
    • 00:36:09
      We got Chris getting ready to put in another housing development.
    • 00:36:13
      That core neighborhood of 10th and Page and West Haven, we're being blocked in.
    • 00:36:17
      We're boxed in.
    • 00:36:19
      But don't nobody really understand us as common people.
    • 00:36:24
      We're right at the bottom of UVA.
    • 00:36:27
      We have been at the bottom of UVA, and we have never been a community with UVA.
    • 00:36:33
      So please, just listen to the
    • 00:36:36
      and understand where we're coming from.
    • 00:36:38
      Thank you.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:36:46
      Anybody else like to speak?
    • SPEAKER_18
    • 00:36:57
      Thanks for the opportunity to be here.
    • 00:36:59
      Hi, I'm Valerie Long.
    • 00:37:00
      I'm a real estate and land use attorney with Williams Mullen.
    • 00:37:03
      We help applicants through the process.
    • 00:37:06
      I first want to say that one of the best things that's working with this new code is how responsive your staff is to questions.
    • 00:37:13
      I'm willing they have been to sit down and have meetings on pretty short notice and help answer questions and provide guidance.
    • 00:37:21
      Even though I've been working with the code for two and a half years, I learn something new every day.
    • 00:37:25
      Usually I learn it from them.
    • 00:37:26
      It's a lot to get used to.
    • 00:37:28
      and they've just made a lot of time for applicants with questions and helping really work through solutions as much as possible.
    • 00:37:36
      And I appreciate all the technical changes that were made with phase one and phase two, with one exception that's created quite a challenge for a lot of projects and I'm not sure that many people are aware of it.
    • 00:37:48
      And that change is now under the sort of rearrangements that were approved in March, a requirement for development plan approval, the first step,
    • 00:37:58
      before final site plan, all design approvals were moved up to the front end.
    • 00:38:05
      They are now a requirement of development plan.
    • 00:38:10
      And the explanation for that is, well, it's a zoning requirement and everything in the development plan is supposed to be zoning ordinance requirements as opposed to basically everything but utilities and engineering.
    • 00:38:22
      I agree with that concept of structuring it
    • 00:38:25
      but I would say I don't think design review is part of zoning, unlike the dimensional requirements in the development code, height, transparency, active depth, building lengths, lot coverage, all those dimensional objective criteria, very different from design review.
    • 00:38:47
      Regardless, you all may disagree with me on that, but regardless as I'm sure in particular designers will appreciate
    • 00:38:54
      Moving that requirement to the front end of development plan, the changes that were put in place with tier one and tier two were intended as described to help make it easier and faster for applicants to obtain development plan approval, ideally within one or two submissions, which would be amazing.
    • 00:39:11
      But all the good things that were in those tier one and tier two amendments, in my opinion, were kind of for nothing.
    • 00:39:20
      by moving the design approvals to the front end for projects that are subject to those approvals.
    • 00:39:27
      Six figure plus investment for applicants that before they even can determine whether, work through all of the many, many, many challenges of otherwise getting development approval, trying to match all the different regulations.
    • 00:39:46
      So I would ask for your consideration and thought about that.
    • 00:39:49
      And then finally,
    • 00:39:50
      In general, the challenges of all the regulations often overlap with each other.
    • 00:39:56
      In order to comply with this requirement, I end up violating this one.
    • 00:40:00
      So if I try to fix that, well, then I might violate this other one.
    • 00:40:03
      And it's pretty much impossible, we've found so far, to comply with every single regulation without requiring a special exception.
    • 00:40:11
      Thank you.
    • SPEAKER_02
    • 00:40:13
      Thank you.
    • 00:40:15
      Mr.
    • 00:40:15
      Chair, may I reclaim a minute of my time?
    • 00:40:19
      Sure.
    • 00:40:24
      We'll go over here this time.
    • 00:40:28
      Rebecca Quinn, downtown resident.
    • 00:40:32
      I've heard several people, including professional developers and attorneys, talk about how much they learn from staff.
    • 00:40:40
      They get something done, they come in, they have questions, they get answers.
    • 00:40:44
      I've worked with regulations at the state and local level, floodplain and building code for 35 years.
    • 00:40:52
      I always advise local officials when
    • 00:40:54
      Come up with an interpretation, document it, because maybe it leads to a code change or a regulation change or a manual or something to share.
    • 00:41:03
      My question is, are you all doing that with all of these informative meetings?
    • 00:41:10
      And will examination of those answers that you end up resolving with people, will those be examined as part of this process?
    • Matt AlfeleDevelopment Planning Manager
    • 00:41:20
      Thanks.
    • SPEAKER_02
    • 00:41:24
      The other speakers?
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:41:34
      Anybody online?
    • SPEAKER_11
    • 00:41:37
      No.
    • SPEAKER_02
    • 00:41:41
      This number?
    • SPEAKER_12
    • 00:41:53
      Good evening.
    • 00:41:54
      My name is Sharon Diehl.
    • 00:41:56
      I worked at City of Promise a couple years back when they started their Dream Builders program.
    • 00:42:05
      And what I was most concerned about in reading all the information available I could find is, you know, one time we wiped out the black middle class here with Vinegar Hill.
    • 00:42:24
      and what it feels like is redux.
    • 00:42:28
      And so if everyone in the room agrees we just wanna knock it out, okay, but don't kid yourself.
    • 00:42:39
      And many people here probably know people that live and work in the City of Promise.
    • 00:42:48
      That's a great place.
    • 00:42:52
      So thank you.
    • Hosea MitchellMember, Planning Commission
    • 00:42:54
      Thank you.
    • SPEAKER_22
    • 00:43:04
      Thank you.
    • 00:43:04
      My name is Frank Becker.
    • 00:43:05
      I live in Fifeville.
    • 00:43:07
      Let me see if I can formulate this.
    • 00:43:08
      I've thought about it many times.
    • 00:43:10
      In terms of having a code that is simple, not confusing, not difficult, I understand it can be that way.
    • 00:43:20
      But that's what my comment has to do with.
    • 00:43:24
      and I'll point out kind of an absurdity to start with.
    • 00:43:31
      We of course have individually protected properties, protected districts.
    • 00:43:35
      So in the case of Fifeville and the MARC proposal, it went to the Board of Architectural Review because two individually protected properties there were protected.
    • 00:43:47
      And what was new to me as an outsider who doesn't know about these kinds of things,
    • 00:43:53
      is that it was those buildings, exterior form and that kind of thing that was being, that we were taking care to preserve.
    • 00:44:06
      And of course, many community members show up and say, what about our neighborhood?
    • 00:44:09
      And the board said that we can't do that.
    • 00:44:12
      So what I want to talk about here is there is no status or not a very easy one for protecting
    • 00:44:22
      a neighborhood or protecting a community, although that makes a lot of sense to people.
    • 00:44:28
      You say, well, do you value this core neighborhood?
    • 00:44:31
      How are you going to protect it?
    • 00:44:32
      I understand zoning dealt with that kind of question.
    • 00:44:37
      But the absurdity I want to point out is what ended up happening to perhaps influence a decision to overturn the Board of Architectural Review was that
    • 00:44:52
      Well, we need to save these two old brick cottages that I want to save to you.
    • 00:44:58
      I'd love them to be affordable housing and things like that, but we need to save those cottages.
    • 00:45:05
      And the logic put forward by the developer, which I thought was quite shrewd, is look, only we, a multi-billion dollar company,
    • 00:45:17
      that can build an enormous building.
    • 00:45:21
      We have enormous amounts of capital.
    • 00:45:24
      Only we can save those two multi-decade boarded up cottages.
    • 00:45:31
      I'd love to see them unboarded up.
    • 00:45:33
      They're a lot like my house.
    • 00:45:34
      They could be remade.
    • 00:45:35
      I don't believe for a second that they would cost $2 million to rehab, which was stated to council members and even quoted in the press.
    • 00:45:48
      But in any case, the complaint that neighborhood members have and others is, hey, what about us?
    • 00:45:58
      What about this neighborhood?
    • 00:46:00
      And the logic that is being pursued by council, say in this case, is we have to impact your neighborhood.
    • 00:46:10
      We have to do things that the neighborhood doesn't want.
    • 00:46:14
      In order to save these two cottages, which are
    • 00:46:18
      and we're workers cottages, by the way, in a working class neighborhood and a black neighborhood.
    • 00:46:24
      So it's quite strange the way that has played out.
    • 00:46:30
      And if we had a status that could openly say, I don't know how Dylan rule impacts this kind of thing.
    • 00:46:38
      If there were a status that could say, we want to protect this neighborhood.
    • 00:46:42
      We don't want to protect its shingles, its tiles, its windows.
    • 00:46:48
      We want to protect the whole place against being destroyed.
    • SPEAKER_14
    • 00:46:53
      Any of the speakers?
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:47:07
      All right.
    • 00:47:10
      Staff, you guys have anything you want to add or respond to?
    • SPEAKER_14
    • 00:47:14
      I'm Jean Hyatt and I'm an active civic-minded resident, not a developer.
    • 00:47:33
      I did follow all along the zoning ordinance and
    • 00:47:37
      fact art group, Preservation Piedmont read through the whole thing and provided a lot of recommendations for modifications, some of which were listened to and some not.
    • 00:47:50
      And at the end, our zoning ordinance, at the time it was passed, which was rushed at the end of 2023,
    • 00:48:05
      It was considered by many to be the most extreme zoning ordinance in the country for a small city.
    • 00:48:14
      I'm not sure if that may still be the case.
    • 00:48:18
      Anyway, so I have some suggestions to consider because now I know some planning commissioners and
    • 00:48:25
      City Councilors and other members of the community see that changes need to be made.
    • 00:48:33
      There's a lot of unintended consequences because of some of the decisions that were made in the ordinance.
    • 00:48:40
      I think we should get rid of the student housing designation, which really impacts the historically African-American neighborhoods, which are all probably within a half mile of
    • 00:48:56
      I don't know if it's the central grounds of UVA.
    • 00:49:01
      And I think we should consider at some point looking at the whole district in maximum heights.
    • 00:49:14
      I know you can't change one building, but you can look at a whole district and reconsider the heights.
    • 00:49:21
      And I think we should look back again at instituting a special use permit for large developments.
    • 00:49:29
      I think that would really help.
    • 00:49:30
      City council has some control of what's going on.
    • 00:49:33
      And there's one other thing, and I'm not sure what it was.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:49:40
      I'll think I'll write to you about it.
    • 00:49:42
      Thanks.
    • 00:49:43
      If anyone has any other, please leave it to us if something else comes up.
    • 00:49:52
      Dr. Damon, did you guys want to add anything or respond to anything?
    • Matt AlfeleDevelopment Planning Manager
    • 00:49:56
      No, Chair, I think you've heard a lot of good feedback.
    • 00:50:00
      You know, you have an opportunity to, this is a work session, if you want to discuss any of the components brought up or if there's anything else that we can do.
    • 00:50:12
      We are capturing this and this information, I'll point back to the Connect Charlottesville page on clean up.
    • 00:50:19
      We have a working law
    • 00:50:21
      Now, the problem with the working log is it's not 100% up-to-date when you see it online, but we are freezing it periodically and putting it on the Connect Charlottesville page, so everyone has the ability to see the issues that are brought up and that they're at least logged, and it shows us the process for these technical changes as you go forward.
    • 00:50:42
      There's the Code Cleanup page, and you'll see the documents there on the left-hand side.
    • 00:50:49
      Again, we encourage people to sign up to this page, you can follow it, you can interact with it.
    • 00:50:57
      This is fairly new, different divisions within the city are using this for different things.
    • 00:51:04
      The eBite voucher has been utilizing the Connection Artist Clothes page, so hopefully more departments and divisions will be using it, and we have all the code clean up.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:51:16
      And I don't mean to put you guys on the spot, but can you remind us where things stand with the, um, council was looking at the fee and lieu stuff, uh, the housing, the admission and all that at some point, are they still looking at that?
    • Matt AlfeleDevelopment Planning Manager
    • 00:51:31
      I would need to ask our, I don't have an update to get from our director or housing coordinator.
    • 00:51:37
      Um, I think commissioners.
    • Hosea MitchellMember, Planning Commission
    • 00:51:42
      So this has really been helpful.
    • 00:51:45
      My only disappointment is that there weren't more developers here to give us a little more feedback because I'm certainly missing a lot of stuff.
    • 00:51:53
      There's nothing that we talked about that was talked about that I disagree with.
    • 00:51:56
      And I appreciate a lot of the minor tweaking that you guys suggested that we need to bring to bear.
    • 00:52:02
      But I am very sympathetic to Ms. Jen, Ms. Bloch-Shapir, Ms. Parker, and Jean as relates to our need to figure out what student housing they get in the area.
    • 00:52:15
      It looks like and we need.
    • 00:52:23
      but we need to tighten it up a little bit.
    • 00:52:25
      Jen and I sit on the BZA and we wrestle mightily with the Mark and the location of the Mark and wasn't student housing or not.
    • 00:52:34
      So we needed a lot of work there to clean that up.
    • 00:52:38
      I think that would help a lot.
    • 00:52:40
      The only other suggestion I've got is, again, I'll go back to Jen, Ms. Lochner, Ms. Parker, Dean.
    • 00:52:50
      We really ought to do something like this for the neighborhoods.
    • 00:52:54
      This is comforting.
    • 00:52:55
      I helped write this thing and I understand about this much of it.
    • 00:53:00
      It would be helpful if we could, one, sit down with the neighborhoods again and walking through what it is and then get this kind of feedback from Fifeville and all the other, 10th and Page and all the other neighborhoods.
    • 00:53:14
      I think a session like this or a couple of sessions like this would be good as we iterate through this because this is an iterative document.
    • 00:53:23
      It will continue to be revised.
    • SPEAKER_00
    • 00:53:25
      Thank you.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 00:53:31
      Any other, and you guys don't have to talk, any other comments from the line commission or thoughts?
    • SPEAKER_09
    • 00:53:37
      I'll just say that I appreciate everybody, both the developers and the residents come out and speak to us.
    • 00:53:44
      Sometimes this, especially on our regular meetings, when one or two people show up,
    • 00:53:53
      It's nice to have an audience like this and a nice to hear exactly what's going on and what people have thoughts about on the community.
    • 00:54:00
      So I appreciate you taking the time out of your evening to come and speak with us.
    • 00:54:04
      And like Hosea, I tend to agree with a lot of the comments that are being made.
    • 00:54:09
      I think it's going to be tough needle to thread on how to sort of find a common ground or
    • 00:54:17
      Something that works for many of the residents that are seeing some of these complaints that you all have and specifically to the developers and attorneys in the room.
    • 00:54:26
      Thank you for continuing to work with us and provide comments on things that aren't working.
    • 00:54:31
      I expected a lot more to show up, honestly, tonight and I think that means to me that
    • 00:54:38
      From the professional perspective, we seem to be doing things, or the code seems to be working quite well.
    • 00:54:46
      Obviously, there's always going to be things that we can tweak and improve or change based on what we're trying to accomplish with the code, but I'm glad that we're moving in the right direction.
    • Hosea MitchellMember, Planning Commission
    • 00:54:56
      I think that as we reiterate through this, it is pretty complicated.
    • 00:55:04
      As we iterate through it, it'd be really helpful if we could
    • 00:55:08
      at least for me, and I'll use the word that I used for me, if we could dumb it down a little bit so I can understand it a little better.
    • 00:55:13
      And again, I wrote it.
    • 00:55:15
      I'm afraid.
    • 00:55:17
      I have problems with it.
    • 00:55:18
      So if we could, as we iterate through this, if we just simplified a bit, that'd be great.
    • Danny YoderMember, Planning Commission
    • 00:55:31
      Okay, I guess I'll go.
    • 00:55:33
      I guess so I'm just going to summarize a couple of things I heard that I hope that we
    • 00:55:37
      This is a work session so I think I think it's like the idea that we can discuss some key things but you know I think we've all noticed places where there are conflicts in the code where and the build to width and building width max is a great example of this where you have certain properties and it's like you can't adhere to both and I just wonder if there is a
    • 00:56:03
      A faster fix to that that wouldn't require a long policy development exercise?
    • 00:56:10
      Are there precedents from other cities where they have something like when these two things conflict, you go with this?
    • 00:56:19
      because we don't want people to have to go through the special exception process when it's like the code is clearly not designed for their property.
    • 00:56:29
      That should be on the city codes to address.
    • 00:56:32
      So that's one thought.
    • 00:56:34
      Second one was covenants.
    • 00:56:38
      I don't know enough about real estate law to actually know what covenants, what hours they actually still have in 2026.
    • 00:56:47
      There are many covenants in the city that are racist covenants, and there are many other kinds of covenants, and I believe that they are not enforceable, but it sounds like it's an issue with the development process, so maybe getting some more clarity on what exactly they can still
    • 00:57:06
      do today subplots in the X zones.
    • 00:57:11
      I guess I'd be curious if there's a reason why when the code was written, we only did them in the R zones.
    • 00:57:18
      And if there's not a reason, you know, it seems like if we think they're a good option to provide, I guess I would know why we shouldn't offer them in the X zone.
    • 00:57:31
      And then I thought Valerie's comments were interesting about the,
    • 00:57:36
      Development plan is kind of first in the process, then site plan approval and the design approvals and the first step in the development plan.
    • 00:57:47
      So I guess like, I'd be curious to learn more about that.
    • 00:57:50
      And again, like I'm not a real estate professional, so I don't design and build buildings.
    • 00:57:56
      I don't know exactly how that process works, but I am sympathetic to the argument that
    • 00:58:03
      Does something comply with zoning is a different question than the kind of design review.
    • 00:58:09
      And then, yeah, I know we heard a presentation from NDS about the kind of looking at student housing.
    • 00:58:16
      Is it helpful to have that designation because we do have it in the code for like something that's defined as student housing or should we not have it and
    • 00:58:28
      I know, Matt, that you don't have an update for us, but that's something that I hope MDS will continue to work through and work with council to hopefully address.
    • 00:58:38
      Thanks everybody for coming and for your comments.
    • Matt AlfeleDevelopment Planning Manager
    • 00:58:42
      Commissioner, since this is a work session, I can touch on a few things.
    • 00:58:47
      A few things I don't have the answer to the covenants, whether the student housing update, the
    • 00:58:57
      Development code, I'll kind of touch on.
    • 00:58:59
      So when we redid the process, you have to have a final site plan to building.
    • 00:59:06
      And so a final site plan has all your zoning components, your development plan components, and your building components, your stormwater, all those elements.
    • 00:59:17
      The development plan, what is,
    • 00:59:21
      The changes that went into effect is you can go development plan route or you can go final site plan route.
    • 00:59:27
      It's up to the applicant to choose.
    • 00:59:30
      A development plan was intended to be, again, quick.
    • 00:59:33
      That would vest your zoning.
    • 00:59:35
      You can't build with it.
    • 00:59:36
      You can't do anything with it because you've not done your, hopefully the developer's done
    • 00:59:41
      Engineering.
    • 00:59:42
      But that's not what we're checking.
    • 00:59:43
      We're checking that it meets the zoning.
    • 00:59:46
      And then if you get that approved, it's valid for five years.
    • 00:59:49
      Within that five years, you would come back and submit a final site plan.
    • 00:59:53
      So it's up to the applicant to decide.
    • 00:59:56
      They can go straight to final site plan, which a development plan is part of that.
    • 01:00:01
      So it's just in there.
    • 01:00:02
      So it's up really to the applicant to decide which path they want to take.
    • 01:00:07
      But there are
    • 01:00:10
      As Valerie mentioned, there are concerns with when things are in an overlay district that can impact the zoning and one of it being height.
    • 01:00:20
      So if you did a development only plan, you went through all that and then you go to site planning, you go to BAR to speak and that is going to be two stories less than what you thought due to those provisions in the code that allows reduction by two stories.
    • 01:00:37
      That was our concern on the staff side, you know, trying to be as hopeful that you're not taking something forward that could be an issue because it could be an issue.
    • 01:00:46
      But there are some very valid concerns that, yes, it's very expensive if you have to start thinking about the development plan when you're thinking boxes and you're needing fenestration and finishing.
    • 01:01:00
      The first one is talking about the
    • 01:01:04
      percentage and the width.
    • 01:01:06
      That is an issue, but it's not an oversight.
    • 01:01:10
      The code is actually trying to get you to subdivide your properties.
    • 01:01:15
      So whether that's just a discussion to have, it's definitely worth having, but it's not viewed as a conflict.
    • 01:01:21
      It's actually intentional to create smaller lots to break up a large building.
    • 01:01:27
      But we are running into issues with this, especially in our very established neighborhoods that have very large lots, but that's what it's trying to do.
    • SPEAKER_09
    • 01:01:36
      And I think some of that comes from when I read this, it feels like a code that envisions a greenfield site and not a city that has established lots and established areas of the city.
    • 01:02:01
      You take a
    • 01:02:03
      several acre plot and you try to break it up it makes sense to have the build to width and the building max and the setback to the front to try to bring them to the street to the public that all makes sense but when you put it on a city like Charlottesville that started to develop into the 1700s or maybe even earlier there's a lot of conflict that comes from that.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 01:02:25
      I think this is where I think it would be helpful if you know
    • 01:02:31
      When the solution is to split the lot in half, if that presents another technical problem, it would be useful to get an email to us that says this is what's happening.
    • 01:02:40
      This is why we can't split the lot in half because maybe the lot size becomes too small at that point or something like that.
    • 01:02:45
      So we can see these technicalities where it's got the intention of the code.
    • 01:02:50
      But then, yeah, where it's not working, seeing the actual examples, I think is helpful.
    • 01:02:55
      And to comment on the sublots and the exons, I'm understanding the reason is because we don't have a minimum lot size.
    • 01:03:02
      And we're saying exons, I mean, anything but R doesn't have a minimum lot size.
    • 01:03:07
      If that still presents a technical problem, it would be useful to know why that's a problem.
    • 01:03:19
      I think so.
    • 01:03:21
      So if there's some reason that that doesn't work, I think it would be useful to understand.
    • 01:03:25
      Did I misspeak on that, Matt?
    • Matt AlfeleDevelopment Planning Manager
    • 01:03:28
      We'd have to look into it more.
    • 01:03:32
      I know it could be creating land lot parcels could be an issue, but it's definitely worth discussion.
    • SPEAKER_09
    • 01:03:41
      Yeah, I'd be curious to know the downstream effects that are being stopped because that was my understanding as well is because you have no minimum lots on this
    • SPEAKER_02
    • 01:03:49
      You know, nobody can hear you.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 01:03:51
      It's not just lot size.
    • 01:03:52
      There's also the rules regarding perimeter and plan that.
    • 01:03:58
      Well, again, I think this word, if you guys have specific examples where it's not working out and it creates a really stupid condition, it would be useful to see that.
    • 01:04:13
      Other thoughts from a funny question?
    • 01:04:15
      Josh, you looked like you wanted to talk.
    • SPEAKER_04
    • 01:04:19
      I think a general comment, I think Danny's list of things to go over is basically my list of more, but I want to make sure process-wise that we do design all these strategies in some form.
    • 01:04:35
      Like Carl said, some of these we could really use follow-ups from Yvonne's book here so that we can make sure that we run these things down.
    • 01:04:43
      So the issue on
    • 01:04:45
      on homozygous and INX zones, if we can see some other zones that are problematic and why, talk about it more.
    • 01:04:50
      I don't want to have that.
    • 01:04:52
      I think similarly on, I think I'm hearing somewhat different things from commenters tonight and from staff about the impact of sequencing or different forking paths and how you get your approvals.
    • 01:05:05
      It's over my head, but I want to make sure that we run it down to everyone's satisfaction.
    • 01:05:08
      So again, email about that, that we can
    • 01:05:10
      figure out that we can call it satisfactory at the end would be great.
    • 01:05:15
      There are things here that I want to make sure don't get dropped and those and more.
    • 01:05:20
      Question for staff to respond to a question from the audience.
    • 01:05:24
      The stormwater reg study is being done by the long range planner.
    • 01:05:28
      Is that right?
    • Matt AlfeleDevelopment Planning Manager
    • 01:05:30
      That's part of the environmental study to look at
    • 01:05:34
      All of the environmental policies, not just things like critical slopes in stormwater, but all the policies as a whole.
    • 01:05:43
      And out of that is looking at how would we handle if we went from our current 6,000 back up to 10,000, what would that do?
    • 01:05:53
      So there was a question, I think, about whether that was ongoing, and it is ongoing.
    • SPEAKER_04
    • 01:05:57
      My understanding is yes, it is continued, and it's ongoing.
    • 01:06:00
      Is that?
    • 01:06:01
      OK, great.
    • 01:06:05
      Oh, and then final point about both the in lieu fees, student housing, and it wasn't mentioned, but I'll mention it, the consideration about IC and tax abatements.
    • 01:06:22
      These topics are not tweaks.
    • 01:06:24
      These are big and important policy conversations that we need to have, and they are interrelated.
    • 01:06:32
      The planning commission and or staff got mail about this a few months ago about maybe some oversights or gaps in the calculations, formulas feeding both of those topics.
    • 01:06:42
      I would love to, I guess once we have a new NDS director, resume talking about that collection of topics, not one but all of them together because they are related.
    • 01:06:52
      I think there's a lot of interest in changing or no longer having this student housing category.
    • 01:06:59
      It's fairly confusing.
    • 01:07:02
      But that might need to happen alongside changes to how we do IZ and in particular, how we subsidize IZ or IZ required units.
    • 01:07:12
      So I know you all are short staffed, but once that resolves, I would love to hear more about those topics together.
    • 01:07:20
      That's all I got.
    • Betsy RoettgerMember, Planning Commission
    • 01:07:25
      Thank you all for coming and speaking.
    • 01:07:29
      It was interesting to hear, to me, I thought we would get more builders and developers talking about like really difficult, like really difficult, like, oh, we have an existing house and it's not the build to it, then we want to preserve it.
    • 01:07:46
      And, you know,
    • 01:07:49
      And there are more people coming in, I think, about the recent zoning, the new student housing projects going up that aren't necessarily little tweaks to the code, but a much larger kind of three-dimensional model that was kind of placed onto the city.
    • 01:08:14
      Anyway, so maybe there's something to be said about, I know in the new zoning code, these developers don't have to have a public hearing because they can do whatever the code allows.
    • 01:08:25
      I mean, maybe there is something there to be discussed in some of these threshold, like all of these projects are like exactly on the line between, you know, the West Main, much taller buildings and historic neighborhoods.
    • 01:08:40
      So maybe there's something that can be discussed there.
    • 01:08:43
      I've been in a lot of meetings where a lot of people are very upset and you know maybe it's just talking about like having them adjust some of their building to step back or some of the things I think that LV has ended up doing you know could have been through the neighborhood discussion I don't really know the answer but I know it's a big problem
    • 01:09:12
      Oh, I had a couple other things just on my own, like things that I've heard.
    • 01:09:18
      I would reiterate the transparency requirement and maybe looking at that, or at least maybe there's some way so it doesn't have to be a special exemption just to either reduce it or say there's a discussion with staff about what, I don't know, give staff some better direction so that you don't have to like individually talk to each,
    • 01:09:42
      person about it, but be like, hey, this is the range we're looking for, or something to open it up a bit in terms of what's allowed to be the program that's allowed to be back there.
    • 01:09:56
      You talked about the act of death.
    • 01:09:57
      Sorry, yes, the act of death.
    • 01:09:59
      That's what I meant.
    • 01:10:02
      The other thing I had heard in terms of funding affordable housing
    • 01:10:12
      And I don't think we've had many of these from private developers yet.
    • 01:10:16
      So that the LIHTC funding would like all those units to be together instead of spread out.
    • 01:10:25
      And there's discrepancy about that apparently.
    • 01:10:29
      And so looking at specific rules that are for affordable housing and making sure that those can move through because
    • 01:10:39
      all of this density is supposed to lead to affordable housing.
    • 01:10:41
      So making sure there's not any kind of conflict there.
    • 01:10:46
      And then I think lastly, this is beyond necessarily, you know, all the code cleanup where I do think I have heard little things from builders and developers.
    • 01:10:58
      So it'd be great if we could get more of those, like just easy fixes, not, you know, we have all these big policy changes.
    • 01:11:07
      But I love the neighborhood by neighborhood suggestion.
    • 01:11:10
      And maybe there are other things that aren't necessarily written in code.
    • 01:11:17
      For example, between going down to West Haven and the LV, the discussion of that walkway that's going to connect West Main and LV, maybe there are things in Fife, wherever there are more bridges, more connections, other things that neighborhoods are looking for that could be built in when a developer comes
    • 01:11:37
      rather than waiting for everyone to get angry and then trying to figure something out.
    • 01:11:43
      But like proactive meetings with neighborhoods, not necessarily full-on plans, but going to each neighborhood and trying to hear what they want so that when developers come, there's some kind of written document or list of things that people care about that they can see before they start making their plans.
    • 01:12:07
      I think that's all for right now.
    • Hosea MitchellMember, Planning Commission
    • 01:12:14
      So I think it was Ms. Parker that suggested that the communications between UVA and the surrounding neighborhoods is not what we want it to be.
    • 01:12:29
      Several years ago, when we were just beginning to think about redevelopment of our public housing properties, George Johnson and I went down to Greenville.
    • 01:12:38
      Greenville was just beginning to do redevelopment.
    • 01:12:42
      And there was a hospital right smack dead in the middle of an area like Fifeville, an area like 10th and Page.
    • 01:12:51
      It was a Bon Secours-owned hospital.
    • 01:12:54
      And they were very, very involved in
    • 01:13:02
      and in Greenville.
    • 01:13:05
      There is a doctor at UVA now.
    • 01:13:07
      He's Dr. Tracy Downs.
    • 01:13:08
      He's a urologist, but he's also their community outreach person.
    • 01:13:14
      I think Lloyd and I had lunch or dinner with him and Wendy Horton.
    • 01:13:21
      Remember that?
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 01:13:23
      Yeah.
    • 01:13:23
      Anyway, we had a conversation with them, and I think we really need to re-engage them.
    • Hosea MitchellMember, Planning Commission
    • 01:13:28
      We need Ms. Parker, other folks in Little Pikeville to reach
    • 01:13:33
      and I'll be happy to put you in touch with Dr. Downes to begin a conversation.
    • 01:13:39
      He's interested in doing something like both down in Greenville and engaging UVA and the medical center in the work that at least the housing authority is doing.
    • 01:13:49
      We want to extend that to the rest of the neighborhoods like again 10th and Page and Fifeville.
    • 01:13:56
      So I just want to kind of throw that out there.
    • 01:13:59
      I'm sure Lloyd remembers it because it was a long evening.
    • 01:14:03
      Interesting.
    • 01:14:05
      A few years ago though.
    • SPEAKER_22
    • 01:14:07
      I think you were the mayor still.
    • 01:14:12
      One of the problems is all the leadership changes at UVA.
    • SPEAKER_05
    • 01:14:16
      We need to reestablish some relationships.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 01:14:24
      Final comments from any other planning commissioners?
    • Betsy RoettgerMember, Planning Commission
    • 01:14:27
      I'll just add to that.
    • 01:14:31
      and I think this goes back to the neighborhoods, the housing authority, also the sort of preservation of Piedmont.
    • 01:14:39
      Having those neighborhoods speak up, I know, I feel like all this, it's like too late on the last two projects.
    • 01:14:46
      So it feels very, I am just talking now, but in terms of UVA, I know they're working on a, they're gonna have a nursing clinic built into the new West Haven
    • 01:15:01
      There was some discussion of them helping to fund healthy groceries in Fifeville if and when that PHA grocery store might, sounds like it may not happen, but if it did, so if neighbor, you know, like making that list and trying to really get those partnerships set up before a developer comes, because then I feel like it's too late.
    • 01:15:27
      These things move through and
    • 01:15:31
      And it's very hard to stop that.
    • 01:15:35
      So to really come at the beginning with these partnerships and find these people and have them ready to work with the neighborhoods, I think somehow we could, I don't know if it's us, but yeah, starting to go out and have part of these neighborhoods would be helpful.
    • SPEAKER_11
    • 01:15:58
      I'm just going to add to Commissioner Mitchell's comments about the UVA Health ones in particular.
    • 01:16:04
      So people are aware, but there is sort of an update to their integrated space plan for UVA Health that kicked off earlier this spring.
    • 01:16:13
      So I believe it's roughly a year-long process.
    • 01:16:17
      They do have public members on some of that effort.
    • 01:16:23
      But as that develops, I don't have specific updates on it, but it's something
    • 01:16:28
      I can look into to get more specific feedback to get out to the public.
    • 01:16:33
      But I know they're in the process of trying to figure out exactly what the roadmap is and directly tied to the fact they've had a change in leadership.
    • 01:16:40
      So I think they're now going back and revisiting to see what the priorities are, particularly how it impacts that immediate environment around the health system.
    • 01:16:52
      I'm happy to communicate those comments back to some of my colleagues to make sure that I
    • 01:16:57
      I know that public outreach is a big component of it.
    • 01:17:00
      So just again, I'll reiterate these ones.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 01:17:03
      All right.
    • Lyle Solla-YatesMember, Planning Commission
    • 01:17:07
      Well, thank you.
    • 01:17:09
      One thing briefly.
    • 01:17:10
      I've mentioned before, but I'd like to reiterate value in reducing the need for special exceptions.
    • 01:17:17
      We imagine this as being something fairly painless and affordable and fast.
    • 01:17:21
      And boy, is it not.
    • 01:17:23
      So any tweaks to make that less painful would be good for everyone, I think.
    • 01:17:28
      The value in a positive vision for our main corridors, I'm thinking about Preston, I'm thinking about West Main.
    • 01:17:42
      It's been a long time since we did a corridor study, I think it's been like 25 years.
    • 01:17:47
      These corridors seem important, these corridors seem to be something that brings us together, we have a lot of feelings about, we have a lot of needs for, and there seems to be some money interested in investing in them.
    • 01:17:56
      So I'm beginning to see a value in corridor studies again.
    • 01:18:03
      The idea of preserving the neighborhood, the Dillon rule was mentioned, which is
    • 01:18:10
      Always a scary thing to say.
    • 01:18:13
      We have very limited options to offer preservation.
    • 01:18:17
      We can preserve individual buildings.
    • 01:18:19
      Yes, we can think bigger.
    • 01:18:22
      And neighborhoods.
    • 01:18:22
      We could do neighborhoods if we choose to.
    • 01:18:24
      Historically, in our more diverse areas and more affordable areas, we have chosen not to.
    • 01:18:29
      It's hard.
    • 01:18:29
      It's scary.
    • 01:18:31
      There aren't a lot of good examples to draw from.
    • 01:18:33
      We would be building the good example.
    • 01:18:35
      Expensive, difficult, take a long time, but not impossible.
    • 01:18:39
      A question of resources, but not a bad idea.
    • 01:18:43
      This is what I have, thank you.
    • SPEAKER_09
    • 01:18:46
      All right, I guess I'll just say, Matt, I imagine you don't have an answer.
    • 01:18:53
      This has turned into a policy question discussion here, former tier three, and with Hosea having moved to a different department, who or what is being done with those larger tier three items?
    • Matt AlfeleDevelopment Planning Manager
    • 01:19:09
      So they're still, with the NDS director, we are still gonna have a director.
    • 01:19:14
      James Freese is the acting director, then Kelly leaves us this week.
    • 01:19:19
      And we have a long range planning division, which is right now, it's authority cantalopoulos is running that division.
    • 01:19:29
      So it is these kind of policy things that within that division with housing
    • 01:19:38
      And again, as I stated kind of the beginning, we're definitely here to collect.
    • 01:19:42
      We're interacting with a lot of these different aspects, but our team is really on the technical side.
    • 01:19:55
      Thank you.
    • 01:19:58
      Okay.
    • SPEAKER_08
    • 01:20:00
      Thank you everyone for coming.
    • 01:20:02
      And again, if any more thoughts come to your minds, just send us an email.
    • SPEAKER_20
    • 01:20:08
      All right.