City Council Monthly Work Session - Special Meeting   5/13/2026

I call the May 13 City Council Special Meeting to order.

Council McLeish, here.

Councilor Oschrin, here.

Councilor Payne, here.

Councilor Sniff, here.

Today's special session is to discuss the state of homelessness

And Charlottesville, the work session.

We won't have a public comment for this, but we will have lots of questions and information.

So that's why I don't know.

Oh, yes, I'm sorry.

Okay.

Thank you.

We won't be voting on anything today, but glad you could join us.

Is there...

OK, all in favor, please say yes.

Yes.

All opposed, please say no.

Right.

Welcome, Natalie.

And so do I turn it over to you?

So good evening Mayor, Councillors, members of the public.

This work session was really a desire by me specifically as one who has to take action and move on all the different things that are floating around and turning them into what the action will ultimately be.

I felt it necessary that from our May 4th briefing that was the actual state of homelessness report from our providers that that conversation we ran out of time that there was still what appeared to be questions that we needed to review.

and I believe we're all of the mindset that since that meeting all the various discussions and touch points that we may have received from the members of the public there are still questions and ideally the intent is that we can use this to our block to get through more of those if not all of those that would be my preference and then we can hopefully walk from this room with an understanding of any specific takeaways and actions that need to be moved on that would be the desire

I have a few slides that I'm going to walk you through and I'm not going to complete it because I also have a request from our providers to speak about a certain set of topics.

So we're going to do that because ultimately that's what I intended to do was to open this up for what questions actually exist so that we can make sure that nothing leaves this room unanswered if that is the desire for everyone present.

All right, so next slide.

I'm framing this conversation today about what have we heard.

There's just a couple of items that I want to highlight from what I believe we all agree that we heard, whether it be from the presentation on the 4th as a part of the Vision for Holiday Drive presentation that was also received by Council and myself, as well as ongoing conversations that have just been occurring

Whether it be with the city, with nonprofits, or just the public at large.

Just wanted to make sure that we, again, set the table with what we all can hopefully agree that we have heard.

And then we'll ask a different question.

Next slide.

So we've heard that affordable housing shortage feeds homelessness.

I think we all can agree that we understand that and appreciate what role that plays.

that rising rents lead to rising evictions.

That is a phenomenon that is not new for any community, but it is a stark issue for us here in this community because it tends to lead to homelessness because the costs are so significant and moving from one place to a next after an eviction is very, very difficult.

And that behavioral health gaps exist for unhoused, which speaks to a need for continued investment in that space.

Next slide.

We have 200 people in need of emergency shelter today, and it's based on some of the reporting that we have seen, and we know that those numbers vary.

246 people accessed Potsdam shelter this past season, and 433 unique guests were served at the Haven.

So that's an indication of what is the scope of the issue that this community faces right now.

Next slide.

Pottram Offers, and my numbers might be a little bit off because I didn't do a whole lot of verifying because I was just trying to pull some things together, but Pottram offers 50 cold weather shelter beds, and I'm going to invite Cameron, Shayla, and Owen to correct me on anything and the major as well, but that number is different.

We can confirm that as well.

The Center for Hope will expand shelter beds from 55 to 110.

I do know that I made that error.

and that the low barrier shelter as presented today will potentially bring forward 83 new shelter beds.

That's just more or less speaking to our ability from a sheltering capacity.

How do we address the scope of the problem that we saw on the slide previously?

Next slide.

And then what is really stark as something that I think we all need to appreciate that our issue is clear, it is evident and it is requiring a response.

If there are 498 individuals on our by name list in 2023, that number is now at 703.

That speaks to a need to do something different, something deeper, something more targeted, something more specific.

And I think that is really what I believe that we have all heard through the indications of where we are and the questions are what do we do?

What are those things?

How do we do them?

Who does them even?

I think that is what's important for us to not lose sight of.

And then the last slide.

So what's missing?

I think that's the question that I would like to just pose in this particular arena.

What are the questions that we still have as it relates to what we've discussed?

I could have added more slides and gone a lot deeper into that and I didn't want to.

I chose not to do that.

because this is meant to be a conversation.

This is not a decision-making engagement.

There's no vote.

There is nothing that will be finalized.

I can tell you from the city's perspective, there is no announcement tonight.

So anyone who came looking for one, that's not what we're doing.

The goal is to truly try to make sure that we can identify what questions may still exist and how best we can answer those if we can today or that becomes a part of the takeaway.

And that is really what I will shift into note-taking mode, because that's where I am at right now, is to try to capture what are the things that we want to walk away from this evening focused on doing, talking about researching, and being able to come back for further conversation as we identify what actionable steps we can implement.

So I'm going to stop there.

Rumi, if you take that down,

And again, I know that we have some specific areas that, are you saying you're prepared to talk about these?

Is that what you're saying?

Okay, great.

We can go into discussion points about the COC and the city relationship, holiday drive, encampments, and just the COC structure.

That's basically what we have framed out as being able to discuss.

So if you want to

Yeah, maybe I'll just lay out sort of the general framework.

So when we gathered questions from counselors in advance and then questions we received during the work session last Monday and follow-up conversations since then, we really heard three major concerns, buckets, areas of concern.

These are items four, five and six.

And then from the COC's perspective, probably one of our biggest concerns is number three.

So our proposed framework is that we spend a discrete amount of time tackling each of these topics.

The COC has come with observations about the state of things.

We would love to hear from city councilors and city staff about how y'all are seeing these discrete issues.

And then at the, you know, towards the end of each of these times, we want to identify

Not sure the action items that the city is walking away responsible for, that the COC is walking away responsible for, and the ones that we're sharing together.

Does that seem like a good framework for our time?

I just want to make sure you said number three.

Were you referring to number three on this list?

I'm sorry.

Yes, yes, yes.

On the agenda.

These times seem approximately appropriate for the scope of what the city is coming with.

Yeah, seems reasonable.

Okay.

I have all sections ready to go.

Great.

Start right here to keep us on time.

And yeah, hopefully we don't need all of the time.

That'd be amazing, but unlikely.

Wait, Natalie has a question.

Awesome.

Okay, great.

So I'll kick off number three.

And again, this is, you know, from the CSC's perspective, I think this is the issue, sort of a structural issue that impacts all of the others.

and it's how are the city staff, the COC agencies and city council communicating with each other, updating each other on what progress is being made.

In our observation, we were working really closely, really well with the city through phase one of the low barrier shelter design project, through phase two of the low barrier shelter design project.

And then we had the presentation on March 25th to you all in this room and walked away without clear action steps of who was owning what next.

And then there were no touch points for the next month and a half.

and I do think that that resulted in a lot of confusion.

And so the first thing that we would love to address is what are the structured touch points that we need between the COC and city staff and city council if city council is able to participate in some of those touch points and if city council members are not, what's the best communication on like a monthly basis to update city council about those touch points.

From the COC's perspective, we would like to request bi-monthly meetings with one decision maker from the city who the city manager appoints as their representative.

And we would love to have one city council member

So you're saying touch points on the status of the Lowbury shelter or everything on this list?

Everything on this list.

And you say a month?

I said twice a month.

What you said was bi-monthly.

Owen, do you mind just for the public to tell them what a COC is?

I'm very sorry.

It's good.

The COC stands for continuum of care.

So BRAC, the Blue Ridge Area Coalition for the Homeless is the continuum of care or COC lead agency, which means we're the backbone support agency for the direct services providers represented at the table.

So PACHA, The Haven, a few other service providers in the community.

We apply for federal funding through HUD for homeless services.

We apply for state funding through DHCD or the Department of Community Housing and Development on behalf of the direct service providers.

Thank you.

So I kind of made our COC observations and then I jumped to the request for the action item, but would love to create space for city staff to give your perspective on, you know, what since March, if that's accurate, right?

Were we working closely together through the phase two?

I'll offer that the basis of where we are post the presentation of the vision for Holiday Drive is that there has been continued work on the city side post that presentation because the requested deliverable was produce, prepare and produce a presentation of a vision.

You did that.

Council received that.

What was presented is still a very costly operation vision, and there has been considerable engagement with our philanthropic leads, CACF and BAM Works, identifying how we can go about raising those funds, which was shared as a part of this conversation that the city's acquisition of 2000 Holiday Drive for $6.2 million was as far as we could go in the setup.

of this vision coming to life and that we would need 6.2 million was the purchase, the purchase of Holiday Drive.

So that was as far as we could go and our engagement in the conversations that we had was are we confident that we could raise that money locally?

Whatever the vision cost at that time we were not sure.

That number came in with the three options that were provided by the low barrier shelter group.

I think everyone still felt that those numbers were high, not that you did anything wrong and that they were just high.

And the question was, because we also know that the Salvation Army, as of yesterday, announcing officially their capital campaign, but needing to also raise a significant number of dollars to make sure that the expansion could happen, that those two moments happening at the same time were tension.

And the question was whether or not we had confidence that this community would actually rise to that specific occasion.

It wasn't that that's an indictment on would we part with the monies that is needed.

It was just a question of could that amount of money for this one issue be dedicated at this time.

So there's been a lot of ongoing conversations in that regard.

There have been a number of questions and concerns about how do we pay for it alternatively.

If it's not only philanthropic, there has been engagement of UVA in addition to what was presented as a part of the vision that was presented by the low barrier shelter group to see is there interest in their spending dollars on this.

We heard a number of responses, so there's still work to be done in that space.

So I can acknowledge that yes, there hasn't been further engagement.

And that was not a knock or slide in any way that was we received the vision that was requested and we now we're working that vision.

In addition to that, there have been considerable internal conversations.

This team and others that are in the room have all been a part of how do we look at this particular issue as what is our way for operationalizing a city response.

I think I've heard from these five individuals that we can't continue to not be a part more actively a part of the response.

And then the question is, what does that look like?

So we have not gotten to a place of being able to say that we know exactly what that looks like at this present time, but she's sitting next to me because she's helping me figure some things out.

So I can honestly acknowledge that that work is ongoing and we even met this week and have met how many times you've seen me in the past month now.

Two quick questions in response to that.

Well, one's an observation, but we have a number of identified touch points that we would love to, you know, find places for city staff and COC to work on these discrete projects.

And then

On the funding side, I know that the state was interested in funding the Salvation Army Center of Hope project.

Has there been any engagement with state senator representatives to forward that?

Always, yes.

Confidently, yes.

Great.

But there's no guarantee at this moment with the budget, state budget being stuck, we're not receiving any confidence of what that's going to end up.

I have continually inquired about it because I have also wanted to make sure and I'll say it again publicly that I wanted to make sure that we express the support for the Salvation Army's capital campaign from the city's perspective.

because it was also communicated to me publicly that some thought that because we started activating this conversation about the low barrier shelter that that meant somehow we did not support the Salvation Army's expansion.

It is both things that we are very much in support of because, again, as you look at the slide and the scope of our needs, we know that we need both of those things and then some.

So I'll say that again.

This is not all that we have to work on to address this issue.

We have to continue to do more than that.

So I think that's, we can continue to cross our fingers and hope that out of the budget session we get something that lands and sticks.

I spoke with Senator Deeds today and he basically said don't expect anything until the end of June.

And that's the latest that I've heard is that we should not expect that the budget will come together by then.

Thank you.

I think there's conversations that we probably need to have in that I know that we have city staff that are a part of BRAC, and I think we probably need to associate what other meetings need to happen in conjunction with those.

I wonder if we could circle back to that one at the end because again we'll be identifying a number of like working groups that staff of different levels we'd like to invite into.

I guess I would ask the question of council in regards to a counselor participating.

No, I'm just saying, I think it's a good, I think it's good to be included in those conversations and it, again, it can calibrate.

Maybe now when it's most acute, you need council support.

And then as it gets rolling, you don't.

I'm happy to defer.

so yeah so those bi-weekly those those meetings that we have every two weeks yeah so if you could you know let us know when it is it sounds like Jen would be happy to represent council on that because this is an issue not just an encampment just the housing affordability issue in general is something that we

get a lot of emails on a daily basis starting first thing in the morning and through like, I don't know, 10 minutes ago.

It's something that the public, because it's so visible, it's so evident.

And I'm glad that we have the capacity, hopefully, to address it.

Then I guess one more follow-up question.

It's awesome.

Jen, that's an incredible commitment to be part of the group.

As far as sharing the info that you have with the rest of the counselors so that you have the most up-to-date information so that when someone is asking you what is the response, you can have a full informed response.

Generally speaking, we can do that via email, post the meeting, and just

Make sure that my report outmatches the minutes or have that be reviewed in some way.

But that might be, I'm spitballing, but that might be the most efficient.

We don't have an official mechanism for that, but that might be the easiest way for us to keep on track with that.

Yeah, yeah, we're very, you know,

Engage Council, and so we let each, you know, we need to know something.

We may ask Sam, but Sam always responds to, I may ask a question, but he responds to all five of us type of thing.

So we, but I've never felt like, I don't know what the H is going on.

This is just a really, a small community, but it's very connected and

You know, although Michael formed something, because I was out of town this weekend, I didn't realize that there was a fire at one of the encampments.

I didn't know that.

I just got back in town.

I'll say that there should be no concern about making sure that council receives any notes from any conversations that are had because they will be shared.

That is part of the process.

And then are you envisioning like a group where there's like

Secretary that's taking meeting minutes that are reported out afterwards, or in the past we've done work groups that were recorded and accessible at least to resume.

I'm thinking Zoom because the AI note taking thing is pretty decent and it can be reported for review.

Yeah, I know.

I think either way could work.

I know in the past,

There was some like zooms where like it was not publicly accessible.

Sometimes I think it was like a criminal justice work group where it was public facing, even though not all counselors were at every meeting.

I don't know if there's any perspective on kind of what the right approach is.

I propose a zoom meeting that's recorded and shared, but the city has other, you know, wants to do a different format.

I think that's number three.

And we've almost stayed within our 15 minutes.

So thank you.

I'm going to hand off to Shayla for the holiday drive portion.

Thanks.

So as Owen mentioned, after our March 25th presentation, the council, we were at a waiting point where we were hoping to get some kind of feedback from city council.

And so

There weren't any really clear action steps for either party that were identified, I think, in that meeting.

And so what we have proposed is that we have some kind of operational plan that we draft on behalf of the COC so that you all are aware of what we're trying to work with, the programming we hope to operate within Holiday Drive.

And that would also include a budget that's very detailed per agency.

But on the city's perspective, we were hoping to have someone be assigned as a project manager on behalf of the city.

And maybe this is where Disney Graves comes in or some other position.

I know there's some other talks about other projects to be tackled, but someone who's devoting a certain number of hours per week to the holiday drive project to see that move forward.

We were hoping that you all could at least vote on design options that we presented at the March 25th meeting.

We do have updated figures for the phase one option, one design that we've shared with SAM and we can share with city council as well if that hasn't been shared with you yet.

But if we have those parameters to work with, we have a solid design plan to move forward, then we can talk about what type of programming will be in that design phase.

We also were hoping to get building code official review and approval.

for the interim use of 2000 Holiday Drive.

There are some, my organization at least, BRAC, was hoping to move into Holiday Drive and have bigger office space and operate out of that versus city space where we're already getting a little cramped.

And as you know, we had to review or revise our leasing agreement with you all to expand to four employees.

So we're hoping to get interim use voted on and approved by the building code official.

We could also use that space for some temporary interim classes or courses for our clients and guests.

Not talking about a designated campground at that point, that's way down the line, but we could at least use that building for some interim uses for office space.

So I actually have to have a project and a project leader vote on a

desired design and whether you can have an interim use.

So those three things.

So you mean like at, I'll get you one second Natalie, I got you at a future, a near future council meeting.

Got it.

Hey there, thanks Shayla.

You mentioned just now the designated campground space is something not on the table right now, potentially future down the line.

I think that is something we want to talk about when we get to the encampment piece.

But we recognize that Holiday Drive might be limited in its capacity right now.

And so that could be an option.

So kind of like low tier, low hanging fruit to use it as an office space for you all.

It's not that it's down the line, but it's a more complicated conversation.

Exactly.

Yes.

OK, great.

Another thing we would like to do with the city in collaboration with us is to engage the holiday drive businesses.

I don't think there's been much communication, at least not on behalf of the COC.

And that's something that the COC is happy to take point on if the city prefers or happy to defer to the city on that.

Thank you.

That is some, you know, when we voted on this matter back in September, we did get many of the businesses to come out and, you know, we hadn't, you know, the course of

My time keeping up with council and really never had them that engaged to come out.

Of course, this would be something to do that.

I had, you know, I had been thinking about like, how are we going to do that?

So I had no, I have no thoughts on it.

I don't know if other councilors have any thoughts on that, but as you're thinking about that, we also need to think about, and maybe Sam it's a question for you as far as our agenda, how we're going to address the questions of the project leader.

I haven't seen

Apparently there's some new numbers.

I haven't seen them yet.

And maybe in some emails that haven't had time to look at yet, which design and voting on the interim use of the space.

And so I guess over the next few months or as soon as we can discuss it, get that information together so we can get, you know, if that's something that we as a council want to do.

Well, I'm curious just right now, what is the structure of how frequently meetings happen around Holiday Drive and who is part of that

What group or steering committee is there currently like staff representation on that?

So, you know, the way that the CSC is thinking about it is that at this point, the renovation and the, you know, that aspect of getting the building ready to move in, we understand is in the city's court, we're happy to assist in the design however we can.

What we're working on is

figuring out how our three organizations are going to co-locate there.

And so we have begun monthly tri-board ED meetings to, I mean, it's, you know, the operational plan of Holiday Drive is one topic that we're discussing, but on a higher level, we're discussing the structure of the COC and that's actually our last sort of discussion item.

At this point, at least from my perspective, one of, if not the hardest challenges is, you know, once it's open as a year-round low barrier shelter, there'll have to be 24-7 staffing, significant increase in case managers, number of staff.

That will be extremely hard to figure out how to sustainably fund.

Is there any sustained conversation around kind of that

I would say that is a subset of the bigger question that we are, that we have to figure out what is the structured relationship between the organizations before we can go to funders and say, this is what we're doing.

We also need a clear off.

But again, as we said on March 25th, we think that there's great

potential in reimagining the COC, asking this question, what is the most effective structure for our COC given the fact that we're trying to level up our response in a significant way.

And we think there's a lot of interest in the community for solutions.

This is a critical piece, the strategic part of what is the COC structure, critical piece of that narrative.

So again, what we are looking towards

Being in a place a year from now where we can articulate a narrative to the community that people will be excited to get on board with as volunteers, as funders, as community partners.

And that makes sense.

I think part of it is it's just an inherently very difficult challenge to do something that's different and big.

So it's inherently not going to be easy.

I guess the final question is just to return you said to something you said earlier.

So you would hope

sooner rather than later to get clear direction from city council on what design choice and then have a staff point person.

Yes.

So just to clarify, so we would love for city council to vote on the design option.

or set new design parameters if you're finding that the cost is too expensive or some other parameter is out of line and we're happy to do a third phase of design based on those new parameters.

So that's probably the most critical step for council.

The project manager piece, this is sort of an internal city, I guess we had,

are brainstorming and again happy to use this as an opportunity for feedback but having a point person for holiday drive as a discrete project either internal city staff or a funded COC position who's devoting we're not sure how many hours a week that is frankly because we don't know kind of city procurement like

Is this a full-time position?

Is this a 10-hour week position?

We just don't know from our vantage point, but you do think that this project would benefit from someone assigned to project manage pushing forward the A&E design procurement part of this project.

So that's the second request.

The third, hopefully the lowest hanging fruit is the building code review.

The fourth would be to have an engagement plan.

How do y'all want to engage the businesses on holiday drive?

City-led, COC-led, happy to go either way.

But we're glad to be part of those conversations as well.

There is a fifth identified action that's Haven specific, which is that

The Havens Board passed a resolution shortly before the presentation explaining what conditions we are saying we're really excited about Holiday Drive, excited to be a stakeholder in this project.

There are conditions that we need to be met before Holiday Drive is open and operational before we can move in.

So we do need

Haven leadership needs to meet with city staff to share that board decision and the conditions and then begin that conversation about how we move that ball forward.

What are those conditions?

I can send you the proposal.

So one question that I can't pinpoint where I got this impression, but I have been under the impression that there was some fundamental agreement that you all, the three of you, need to come to

before the design phase gets finalized, that there was some difference in the way in which certain things might get designed depending on different decisions that have to be made by you all.

And so there's sort of a putting up cart before the horse, which one's the cart, which one's the horse, to figure out whether there is, if you all are in a position to simply say,

and whatever issues there may be between either differences in the way that you operate or, I mean, I don't remember what it was.

I thought at one point that the agreement, that the area of disagreement dealt with something that would manifest itself in a different way that the space would be configured.

That's not the case.

In terms of like methodology, we are all housing first.

And in terms of how it's defined by the National Alliance to End Homelessness, in terms of methodologies and approach, there's a difference because we offer different services versus night shelter versus day shelter.

You know, there's differences in terms of that.

But there's nothing impending in terms of this overarching thing that's going to prevent us from being able to work together.

As Owen shared earlier, our executive committees and the EDs are meeting collaboratively.

Okay, good.

I'll offer that I think the reflection is tied to that hasn't always been the case.

So I think this is movement and I think that's just the recognition of that because we know that there has been at times it hasn't been that smooth.

So that's just naming it for what it is.

I'm going to go back through your list as well and just speak to some specifics.

The first reference was no clear action steps following the presentation.

That is correct because the request was the visioning that exercise was completed.

So there should be no expectation of anything until decision has been made to move forward.

I want to confirm that I hear that you have an operating plan.

You're working on an operating plan, okay.

You'll see in the final slide that I'll show you when we're done that I tried to predict where this was going to go.

I'd like to try to make sure I know what I'm doing.

So when I put that slide up, you'll see the reference to that.

But the operational plan, I would agree.

We definitely would like to see that.

It's important for us to be able to get our hands on an understanding of the budget.

I know Cameron has reached out to me specifically wanting to discuss the Potsdam budget.

So we're going to make sure we prioritize that.

Because in the presentation, I do believe there was still confusion that remained in that what was presented.

appeared to be each organization's budget versus what was needed for the operations of Holiday Drive.

So I think that distinction needs to be really highlighted and identified.

And there needs to be a touch point of clarity as to, and the ask from each organization to the city is what, because that did not ring true in the presentation, a dollar amount of what was being identified.

What wasn't clear in that is that it appeared as though each individual budget was presented as what it costs to operate today.

The request from the city is for you to co-locate at Holiday Drive.

The question is, and what is it that you are asking the city to contribute financially to bring that happen?

Again, this is back to Councilor Payne's observation.

It's going to take us a while until we can

I think that's part of the work.

I think that's the clarity that's needed.

I would venture to say that it's hard to make a commitment that we're going to work with funding agencies to raise six to nine million dollars to produce a space that we don't know if we can afford to fund.

So there has to be some working through of that notion because

The assumption has always been, when I pitched this to Council as the pursuit of this building would be $6.2 million, I said, we're not paying for the upfit, but you need to be ready to pay for operations.

That was not meant in any way to them as in total.

But the question is, what share of that?

It's a fair question for you to even ask is what I'm saying as well.

So having the clarity of that is important because as the manager of the budget, I need to know that too.

And so Owen, what I understand what you all are saying is that

You all are just, you know, trying to answer all our questions and deal with this.

You really haven't had time with your different organizations to go back and determine, like, we don't know what this change, how this change is going to impact our fundraising, what we typically do and things.

So we don't know how much money we'll be able to bring to the table.

We all have our budgeting processes, but if we're talking about three years in the future,

on budgeting and shorten that.

Okay.

So this is another, again, knowing what is the timeline that we're working on shifts the urgency based on our, you know, sort of the information that we've gotten from our sources.

We're hearing two to three years, but if there's other information, we absolutely need that.

And I guess I would put a pin in the budget conversation and add that to the last

That's exactly what I'm suggesting is that the operating plan, the budget, yes, those are important matters.

Referencing a project manager to be identified.

That is part of this ongoing conversation.

I think that is where we have to determine how best to do that.

I'm not sure that we will meet equally on what we suggest a project manager to be and do in this moment.

That is still to be determined, but I agree that dedicating a connection between the low barrier shelter group is what I will, I guess we can maybe stop saying that and just say the COC.

That probably makes sense.

the COC and the city directly establishing that line is a clue takeaway that we'll need to make sure clear connection.

The desire and a vote of the design options.

I think part of that is one additional checkpoint that I would have with council.

I would lean heavily towards the answer to that question is pretty much determined.

We bought a 27,000 square foot building.

We intend to open a low barrier shelter in a 27,000 square foot building.

What that does to the final version of the vision is a question that we need an answer from you, the low barrier shelter group, on because when we consider this there was no additional dollars to be identified for touching the building.

Again, it was about

We pass over.

This is the vision.

This is the space.

Our friends were going to raise the money, hopefully, and then we will be in the meantime preparing an operating plan, a budget, and all the engagement work that you also spoke about.

So for that then, the question is, are we at a point that you can quickly revise what the vision looks like if that is the case?

And what does that do to the vision would be helpful to truly appreciate.

And then we think at that moment, we would be ready to engage the building official.

At this moment, I can't give the building official speculative work.

That's not how he works.

When you say vision, do you mean design?

Go back.

to keep the design within the existing footprint.

Focusing on the idea that if you look at the option that was presented, the final option that was presented to council had the small addition to the building.

If that were removed, what is removed is the question.

How does that change the vision, update that statement of vision as quickly as possible?

And then we would really have something.

That sounds good.

I guess I'm thinking of, so this is bringing Erin, the architect, back in to do another design, shorter design phase, I imagine.

I think we can prepare that.

I mean, it'll be very plainly and in association with what I just said, but I think I can go a little bit further for what you're describing.

The question isn't about the direction from us.

The question is about what do you lose in that space.

So this is not going back to scratch, bringing the architect back in.

For sure.

And I guess the only thing I would name is that from the Havens perspective, our decision is based on the model

that we presented, that was the best working model that we had.

We didn't have counsel's decision.

So if there are programmatic changes, just our committee will need to reassess and make sure that it's sufficient for the haven.

That's the same for Pacham.

The decision was based on the amount of bids and what we thought we'd be able to realistically manage in terms of a 60% increase.

When we presented to y'all, we heard at least initial interest in getting more beds in the building.

and so this is another possibility is getting more beds in the building and less programming in the building, whether it's less admin space or less day shelter or dining functions.

So does this require more sort of conversation on the city side around because parameters are clear as far as within the boundary of the building, but what program is the city willing to lose as part of this project?

And maybe that's like one of those initial parameter setting conversations with Aaron to determine from council and the city manager's office what is going to go away.

Is it clear what's going to be included?

We say take away, take away from what group?

Is there a list?

There are beds that would be lost if we remove the...

Right, but you say if we increase the number of beds, we have to take away a program.

Because they would move...

We can send you the list of programming that's within the building currently.

And so if it would be helpful for council to review that and prioritize what- I think the clarity that exists as the building is envisioned at this present time, that you all are the ones who have the best visualization of what is actually programmed.

because the addition was what you saw as necessary.

That was a part of your conversation, not a part of any other conversation.

So I guess the question that would be a fair question from us to you would be, what's in that space?

Because at this moment, that's what we lose initially.

Then the question is, and how could we augment what we lose by changing elsewhere in the building to accommodate if we value that more than what we might lose in its place?

I think that's the exercise for re-engaging the architect.

Because I don't know that.

And let me just say, I remember the presentation in March,

but I frankly, my takeaway from it was here are a lot of ideas, not here's a plan that we want you to endorse or not.

And so I listened to hear a lot of ideas in a very different way from here's a plan that I'm gonna be asking you to say yes or no to.

And so maybe I don't remember at this point whether there was a presentation of some sort

Um, of course we would not likely have gotten that, that we, you know, format that we could look at later.

Or if there is some more of the operating plan that you're looking for, because that's the specifics and that's what they're prepared to do next.

But y'all are the experts and form follows function.

That's my point for framing the way that I did.

We may not want to lose that.

We might be willing to cut something else.

Yeah, because ideally we don't want you to give us something where you're like, and this means the Haven's out.

We want all the things.

We want everyone to go together.

We want someone to manage it.

And we want the programming to support the folks who are in it and to be successful.

There's definitely no...

So the original design process was a much bigger footprint.

That was all of the things.

We trimmed those down to get to where we were with the most recent design.

So there is no sort of fat to trim out.

I guess I would maybe say the most effective next step is for you to convene with us and the architect to look at the design and

assess what are the things we gain and lose.

It is beds and it is the clinic.

Those are the primary things that are lost.

Just very, very simple.

If PASTA needs to keep 80 beds for it to be on board, then that pushes some admin out.

So anyway.

Hey, so I just wanted to, before, we're getting theoretical, none of us has the plans in front of our faces, but from my memory, there was a version with just the clinic as the addition, and the inside space had gotten all reworked, and then

I believe we've heard UVA is willing to do a mobile clinic, which would mean we would lose the clinic addition.

Somewhere like eight to 10, probably.

So I just, for this space and the group that's going to be provided, because we don't have UVA Medical at the table,

The group that we partner with is separate from the mobile unit.

I don't know how UVA Health works, but they do not.

The group who we have partnered with is not connected to the mobile unit.

So in our conversations with them, their alternative is, well, we will use the dining room or some other sort of space that we can cordon off to make private.

I think that's the identification of the alternatives.

I think what your statement there suggests that there's flexibility.

I think what we're able to say is that we also have heard that there is flexibility of not needing brick and mortar because we have mobile.

So if the mobile facility can be dedicated on some schedule that meets the needs that we vision, would that be satisfactory?

We're a little bit over time, but I do want to just also add that the additional component of the addition is the elevator for evacuating people in stretchers.

That currently needs to happen down a stair with the design.

So that was the other critical need in the addition was the addition of

The elevator, which is not a huge cost driver.

OK, that was my answer.

One question recognizing over time.

Are you looking at phasing at all in terms of there's that undeveloped parcel next to it in terms of you can open this and maybe five, six years down the line we could expand into that?

And I'll just say that from my perspective and the seat that I have, there's been no expression of any commitment of that kind, because that is a future decision.

And I don't make council decisions, so I have not offered that in any way.

I think that is part of further engagement for additional thoughts as to

Do we see something else?

Do we see an expansion of what exists after this is up and running?

Do we feel that we want to just make it even bigger because we see that it is working and we just feel that the capacity gains is more important?

I think I'm suggesting that the openness of the space by having additional land available is what made it attractive in the first place.

It is why it was on a short list

of the full consideration while the Cherry Avenue thrift store conversation was live for me, actively engaging with the public about it.

I was also holding on to the idea that if somehow this could happen, there's more than just this

One facility with consolidated services on site because there is some buildable land.

The site that everyone sees today is not entirely buildable.

There is a gigantic easement there that does not allow us to put a building over it.

So it's very limited as to how far we can go with an expansion.

Is that our easement?

It is a water easement or a utility easement if I'm remembering.

So any attempt to move it is gigantic and hugely disruptive.

So there is a limitation on the site, but there absolutely is an opportunity to add to the site.

And the question is what?

I had one question and then the conversation went a little further, which added a second thought.

I'll start with the second thought first, which is the potential for a phase two of this project, I think is important because

We don't have the resources.

I think we have to be real and recognize that we don't have the resources to make this perfect.

So if we keep fighting for perfect, we get in the way of good enough.

And later down the line,

Hopefully and ideally there'll be an opportunity for expansion as we pay off certain debts, as we increase tax revenue, those sorts of things.

We can get that bigger, better, perfect version that we all wish we could pay for and fund now.

In the meantime, we can get something that helps.

And then for office space and capacity building, this is not a question I need answered at this exact moment, but what about those contractor trailers or trailers that students at large high schools that haven't expanded yet have classrooms in?

What is the ability to put something like that on this property that is structurally sound

has air conditioning and doesn't involve digging and doing a whole foundation.

And is that something that we could use to expand office and programming space for a lower cost?

Just putting that out there as a thought.

I don't know if it's been considered yet.

I don't know how much those costs, but if that is a way where we can recapture indoor space,

so we don't lose programming capability or bed space because we can take some of that office and it's still onsite, it's still nearby.

Could we recap action steps before we move on?

The production of an operational plan inclusive of a budget for participation and how they drive separate from operations.

We might be able to do that in six to nine months based on the other sort of structural strategic work we need to do internally.

Well, actually, I'm sorry, I may have spoken out of turn.

Yeah, BRAC is working on its strategic plan right now.

We're trying to finalize that.

We're working on a COCY strategic plan as well.

That might take a little longer because we're engaging external stakeholders.

We're working with CACF, the community foundation, to work on an operating plan as well.

So we can identify a deliverable date.

Yes.

Same thing for Potswim as well.

Potswim has several points of restructuring.

I'll be honest and just say where I am and it ain't popular.

It needs to be faster.

What does faster look like to you?

Can I ask a in the weeds question?

Could the operational plan have buckets that are TBD in order to expedite that process?

So you're restructuring your organizations.

It makes it difficult for you to say we will do this and thus put it in a plan.

But if you can leave a box that says someone will do this, unidentified as of yet, but it will have these characteristics,

And if I could just tag onto that, I would say that that's where I am.

If we could, if we could confirm as much as we could confirm as quickly as we possibly can, that's the request.

Because with that information, then this engine can turn as well.

And while we're turning on the parts of the engine that we need to turn, we will produce answers quickly and share in that.

It's not the normal way of doing it.

I get that, but these aren't normal times.

And I think what will be helpful is to see what we could identify in the approach to operating this facility.

What do we know for sure?

Like, what are the things that we're just confident of?

This is how we would do this, period.

and if we can then highlight this is where we need to continue to work with our boards on getting some clarity, working with staff to figure out how that approach gets further informed.

And one thought that occurs to me is that

I know it is uncomfortable to be asked to do this or to be doing it, but there's a certain amount of building the plane as you're flying it that's got to happen.

Having been in that world, you know I was in that world, a non-profit world.

I get that.

So that's basically what I'm saying.

Sounds good.

I will say that we, as on the city side, will be designating the project management component.

I think it's internalizing our structure and then determining how best the linkage goes back and forth.

I think you heard the vote on the design that I think we can further talk about it to your point of helping the architect appreciate what it is that is being said and then giving that direction to quickly revisit to bring back what is that impact.

When would you like to schedule that?

So quick point.

So three months from now is the 13th of August.

in terms of operational plan.

We're talking about two more weeks, so I would say yes, that's fine.

August is always a mess, ain't it?

But I guess, would it be maybe you

Agreed on this and I just missed the agreement.

I think that's the reason for pushing to get the architect engaged.

That comes sooner rather than later.

We will know where we stand on that pretty quickly after that.

I mean I feel like what we would know is we probably will, and just kind of thinking about what I've heard and what I understand, that we will probably surface conflicts with the impact of that change.

That doesn't stop us from still moving forward with everything else.

That just means that needs to be worked on and determined how best to do it.

The next item is that the building code official is going out on leave soon.

So I am extra motivated to ensure that that happens quick enough that I can engage him.

I can engage him in an interim capacity at this point, but it's more conversational.

I need to get the clarity of that piece being removed

and then having him understand what is being proposed to occur inside the building and then he can give the feedback on that.

What's the time, as far as the leaves, how much time do we have?

We're probably, I can't remember, like a month.

I feel like I know what pieces I can produce quickly that would initiate conversation so that the meeting is about the report outs.

I think that would be the approach to take.

The questions of

Engaging the building in an interim capacity, I would still label those as TBD only because I think the question, the next conversation is important to appreciate in association with that.

I will say the engagement of how they drive businesses

I have engaged the holiday drive businesses at the start of this conversation.

That is why they showed up during the presentation that was made about purchasing the building.

We are having conversations about going back to those businesses because I assured them that I would.

It is my desire to go back and deliver an update that I promised that I would give them before anything happens in the space and then after that I would say to you that I appreciate the notion of you wanting to go speak to them and I would wholeheartedly encourage you to do so because I know that you can anticipate what the thoughts are that everyone has about this as they surface just the same as the Cherry Avenue conversation

and any other location that ever gets named as a possible location for this type of service.

So being able to go in and answer questions, I mean, the difficulty in having that particular conversation is the desire is to know exactly what is going to happen and you don't know that.

to some degree, you don't know that.

And there is a feedback element for us as well.

And they are absolutely prepared to share that with you.

And I assured them that this was never, I was never taking the position and there was the same message that I delivered to the Fifeville neighborhood.

It is not my posture that I would come in and just simply say, we're dropping this in your neighborhood and we're walking away.

That doesn't work.

This was always going to be about, you will know what's happening.

I can't solve for you liking what happens.

I want to make sure that I solve for you understanding what's happening.

And once you have an understanding of what happens, we do our best to mitigate concerns.

So if you identify problems, we work to solve those problems.

They share their concerns.

They share their concerns about what's happening today.

And they share their concerns about what they anticipate happening with this being located there.

I think it's about the answers to about the building is what I anticipate them needing because they know their programming.

They know what they're going to be doing.

Yes.

Just want to, well, we would love to meet with the Haven leadership.

So I'm making a- I think the identification of that exchange with staff is probably a matter of days that we can conclude that.

Sounds great.

Yep.

All right, so encampments, we have 45 minutes slated for this.

And first I'll share some COC observations.

As of reported today, there are about 80 people residing at the Free Bridge and Zero East High encampments.

That number has reportedly increased over the last several months since January,

potentially quadrupled, according to business owners along that stretch.

These community members are at serious risk of death from flooding, from their personal belongings getting washed away.

And we're working to rehouse these community members is a moral obligation for all of us.

We have partnered, BRAC has partnered with Clutch Consulting to bring in their expertise about a direct to housing initiative.

We brought them for a two day onsite training

to our COC in mid-February.

We had some planning sessions and generated some initial cost estimates to rehouse 50 individuals from an encampment.

They actually provided updated numbers to us yesterday.

So a one and a half year long initiative to rehouse 50 individuals would be $1,775,000, which is a lot less than the $4 million we initially proposed at the May 4th session.

I do have a breakdown of the numbers for case management, rental subsidies, project management, landlord engagement, all of that.

So if you're interested in those numbers, I'm happy to share those with you.

But $1.775 million.

Based on our recent count, we would likely need twice as much money to rehouse all the community members at Free Bridge and Zero East High just because of the cost of rent and security deposits in particular.

So the BRAC board decided to table this conversation.

We're still in engagement and communication with Clutch Consulting and Community Solutions, which is willing to sponsor Clutch coming here and helping us on site with this work.

Mainly because of the cost, we didn't have the capacity to undertake this project.

And the rental vacancy rate is very low compared to some other cities across the country.

We heard concern from the city manager's office as well that the cost was a little too high.

considering there's a lot of fundraising needs across the COC for the Salvation Army Center of Hope campaign and also for Holiday Drive.

And so that's why we decided to table this.

We've communicated or BFC or Built for Zero has communicated directly with Mayor Wade and sent their proposal.

I think it was kind of at a standstill at that point just because we weren't sure how to proceed as a continuum of care with that.

So we've notified Clutch Consulting that we're still interested,

Those lines of communication are still open, and we would love some next steps from you all if you're interested in pursuing this project.

Owen and I have also been a part of the Public Spaces Working Group, which has been meeting since January to identify some short-term and intermediate-term solutions for how to address the Free Bridge and Zero East High Street encampments.

What we have identified as some potential resolutions just for the intermediate is additional porta-potties, trash removal, more sharps containers,

Public Space Working Group submitted a letter to Council last Monday.

I have copies here if folks want it.

There was a lot going on last Monday, but this has been a really excellent group that started meeting in January.

Again, Sheila and I are representing the Haven and Brock.

We have the Rivanna Conservation Alliance, where it's focused on the river health and the environmental factors.

We have the Rivanna Trails Foundation who is focused on community trail access and sort of the friction points around people who are using the trails recreationally and the people who are living there.

We have the Rivanna Rafting Company represented as a local business that's been seriously impacted by the encampment.

And we've been able to

We've been able to identify, even though we're coming from very disparate perspectives, there's shared solutions that we can all get on board with to improve both the situation for the folks who are unhoused and the folks who are accessing the trail recreationally and the general environmental concerns and factors.

So that is a really effective working group that's been working since January.

Again, we have

We did a little bit of partnering with Parks and Rec when they did the recent cleanup and that was a great beginning.

I don't know if you want to speak towards any... Sure, I mean it pretty much sums it up.

Thank you.

Sure, yeah, so I mean we know that folks are staying there, right?

But being able to navigate where people are staying, trying to decipher what it is to go and keep, all brings a challenge.

And I think to what we talked about last Monday, it's also not knowing where we're responding to when the call comes in or because it's not necessarily coming from a specific person down there.

It might be somebody reporting it from a business or something like that.

And we get multiple addresses that are given to us through dispatch.

And so accessing it by vehicle, you have to go through private property most of the time.

So Shale was trying to identify this is a very complex situation, right?

And the response is multilevel.

There's immediate responses, there's midterm responses and long term responses.

So the immediate needs are in regards to what Parks and Rec has begun to do around sanitation.

There are that

The project has not been completed.

There was additional trash installed at the site and two sharps containers installed near the bridge.

and there are really two distinct encampments.

One is a free bridge.

This is in the floodway.

This is the most dangerous site to camp because when the water floods, as it does regularly, there's rapidly moving water moving through all of those 10 encampments.

So that's a critical safety issue site.

There's also a distinct encampment at Zero East High, the city owned property.

which is more like a trail system.

It's probably like a half mile south of the free bridge.

So the city cleanup focused on the free bridge encampment.

What we have heard is that the trash receptacles weren't sufficient.

They need more due to the number of people there.

The sharps containers also they could use more and more broadly dispersed through that area and then the most critical issue is porta-potties and I know Rhian and the Parks Department has been working hard to try to site a porta-potty here but they are not able to get access from the property owners or permission to put a porta-potty anywhere in that area and so this is one of

and there's human waste everywhere in that site that gets washed into the river and this is health hazard, community interest hazard makes the river less useful.

So that is a critical need that, again, whatever the city can do to site port-a-pies in this site as soon as possible, that is just the top of the immediate priority list and

Zero East High, needs all of those same facilities.

They have not, they have not, there is no plan currently that we're aware of, Parks and Rec maybe works on this, to create additional facilities to Zero East High encampment.

I don't think this was a very, we heard the cost of this was $5,000 or less for the cleanup at Free Bridge.

So this is not a lot of money that city council needs to allocate to make

the necessary sanitary interventions that are required to complete a free bridge.

And again, understanding that the porta potty is the missing piece and additional trash and sharps.

But siting several porta potties is a critical need and there's no restriction on zero east high.

That's a city owned property.

The Rivanna Rafting Company is happy to partner with the city in

I also think it's important, some of the other, you hit the nail on the head with a lot of those issues there, but there's also the issue, and this came up over the weekend with the fire, Joe Phillips was there, the propane tanks.

Those fires, one of them was venting or net fires, is what I was told.

Another, I know it's just one small piece of it but

With the porta-potties specifically, so Parks and Recs would be responsible for them.

I'm just thinking of the city has porta-potties at a concert.

If there's not constant maintenance, they're gonna overfill, have problems.

Even at community events, some teenager will vandalize them or something.

What is, what would be the expectation for who's maintaining it and what's kind of the frequency of being out there?

Do you have thoughts?

Yeah, I'm with Gabe Silver, Drydena River Company.

I think, I think that certainly maintenance issues, misuse issues, vandalism issues are all very possible and

And yet, right now there's probably hundreds of pounds of human waste hitting the ground all along the river every day.

So every day that goes by, there's that environmental and public health and health in the camps cost.

So I think that the theoretical issues, and to be clear, I'm not endorsing encampments along the

It would seem to me if the city is going to even just for basic health and safety, as I think we need to, being going out there and doing cleanups, as well as monitoring fire safety and to the extent possible trying to enforce basic fire safety rules and regulations.

I mean, it would seem to me the city would need to be out there on

at least weekly if not almost daily basis, given that there's potentially a hundred people and the trajectory is expansion.

Hey there, a quick question about access.

Is,

Onyud said that the city hasn't been able to access Port of Johns on the East High, half of the encampment.

I don't think there are any access limitations on the E0 East High Street.

I think there's plenty of access points.

Correct.

Yeah, access is at the free bridge.

Okay, sorry, just wanted to clarify that.

Another question on like the propane tanks, just because I mean, at our last council meeting, I guess I want to, I want to pause that because this is a fire rescue question, which is critical and could be incorporated into the public space working group as far as the near term sort of concerns.

It is a little outside of our scope.

I think Joe Phillips is on here too.

I'm just going to raise it because at the last council meeting we received very specific examples of emergency fire safety and I think we're in extreme drought is the exact terms

and this weekend obviously there was a fire that by the grace of God there was not serious injury even though in the reporting that very easily could have happened and again by the grace of God it did not spread to other areas but a couple things go different someone easily could have died so I ask you know the questions of access to the site I mean were there difficulties accessing that situation and just kind of

What other virus are going on?

I don't know if there's any.

Joe is on.

I would say, and this might be a question for the city attorney, too.

That is city property there still.

Can the city say you can't, I mean, you could be there, but you can't have propane tanks there.

As the landowner, we can say anything can happen or anything cannot happen on our land.

As for the fire and access question, I think Joe's on there and you can access it.

I'm on.

Sorry, I clicked on.

If we can get lucky in a fire, the access to the tent that was burning is the best access I have.

It was right there near the Advanced Auto and the stairs.

We were able to go right under the bridge as well.

But you move it 100 yards more upriver and it's a difficult access.

That's, you know,

You know, we had the fire extinguishing in about eight minutes.

But the pictures of the fire before we got there are enormous.

So there was a lot of material there burning.

And it's what the resident referred to as a workshop.

It was not his living tent.

It was his workshop, art studio.

That is what he referred to it.

And then it spread to his tent.

And I know there's reference to sharp containers for using needles.

Obviously there's a role for that.

I mean, these are public trails.

So obviously they're used needles in areas where any member of the public could be, children could be.

I guess the question that you're posing is should the city?

I think it goes both ways.

It's the providers that are serving the needs of the individuals as well.

I think we have to make sure that we're sharing the scope of what this now requires.

We are present on a daily basis.

Park services this area on a daily basis.

The sharps containers are serviced, and I'm just kind of speaking for clear, but they're serviced as needed.

If it's full, it is empty.

So if it was full as of yesterday, it is emptied today.

If it's full again tomorrow, it is taken away tomorrow.

That is the posture that has been authorized for us to impact the changes that need to happen in this place right now.

I think what I'm, are you finished?

I'll wait.

This is the first of four sort of responses to the encampment and I just want to make sure we have enough time to, the others include identifying and creating infrastructure for alternative encampment locations.

One of the issues is that this is not, this is not the ideal spot for a variety of reasons, primarily because of the safety and the floodway.

quickly identifying an alternate location that could be safer, could have better fire management protocol, food, et cetera.

It is where I would like to spend more of our time personally in this space.

Though I completely understand the cities need to address the fire concerns and don't want to minimize those in any way.

But our time is limited here.

I'll let you continue.

I'll just highlight again.

I'll share that any consideration of an alternative location for a campsite is my purview.

That is not a heavy decision.

That is not an easy decision for me to make.

It is a very complicated matter.

And there is no decision that I can share with you at this time.

So the answer to that question is that isn't done, that isn't settled.

But I do think that the conditions that we see in this particular encampment has to be addressed.

And it's got to be addressed by all of us.

And I'll just say plainly and clearly that

What we are allowing to happen out there today is unacceptable.

We cannot allow people to continue to be at risk of burning themselves with propane tanks that just should not be on site.

The provision of them by whoever is providing them needs to stop.

They can't have those.

I'm not saying that it is.

It is a threat to safety.

That is a threat to public safety.

We are in a drought.

The rain that we got is not enough to prevent us from losing someone if a cooking instrument that is being manufactured on site tips over.

We can't permit that.

And that is a struggle that I'm having right now with where we are on this encampment space because there are things that we could restrict

in the way of establishing rules because there are none today and that is where we're going to have to go is the establishment of rules and I'll call out Cindy because you gave me the language in the presentation that Potsdam has rules.

and Potsham has the low barrier shelter.

And if we are in a posture that encampments are our alternative version of that outside, then there must be rules.

So we're going to have to find a way to wrap our arms around the implementation of some parameters for anyone who is outside while we continue to work to try to get as many of them inside and make sure that we continue our service delivery, our comprehensive work to bring more services to these folks.

But

We all acknowledge that the individuals closest to the river should not be there, but they need to move.

and we're going to have to initiate that process.

And what I would hope is that all parties involved in where we stand on this matter are going to support that because it is in the best interest of the individuals being in the most dangerous area of our riverfront, that we should all be in agreement that they need to move and we should all work to help get them to move.

And that is not what I anticipate we're going to find based on what our past experience has been.

I'm saying this out loud because I tend not to hold back.

So there's a quick point of reconciling that I want to talk about in terms of the shared responsibility in terms of what the cities do and the providers do.

And based off each organization in the COC, I want to share that each of us are at capacity.

This is not an abdication of the encampments.

This is not in terms of these organizations feeling as though this is not our responsibility.

We are currently at our max.

And so in terms of that, BRAC's board discussed this

Yesterday, we've had conversations with folks in terms of developing an RFP of what this would look like to help for someone to help us kind of conglomerate resources on how to address this, what would be the best approach so that we have something tangible that council can take a look at, kind of sink their teeth into in terms of a viable option.

And each of the organizations, the COC stands ready to ultimately, whether it is a

an alternative site or whatever the case may be to be able to do that.

But I want to make the point that those folks who are in the encampments and those folks who are single individuals, there's sometimes some conflation in terms of these two groups are the same.

So for example, who would be served by holiday drive and who are in the encampments are not the same population.

And so there has to be a vertically integrated program in terms of these are people with pets, these are people who are couples, they don't want to be split up, served by a program that has single or serves single adults.

So there has to be some thought process in terms of what program model can vertically integrate to serve both subsets of that population.

Who does that?

Who produces that?

In terms of servicing both of those populations.

Recommendation on how to do that.

And to piggyback off of that, as far as the capacity, you know,

The CFC under BRAC has one outreach provider, Salta Mensa, who's doing an amazing job of bringing services to the 80 to 100 people who are currently encamped there.

That's not an appropriate ratio.

So I guess we need additional outreach capacity to be able to serve these folks.

That has not been what the COC outreach staff has done and in conversation with Ashley, Ashley talked a lot about with us about and did delineate that if there were city funded outreach positions, they would likely be assisting with relocation without could be a more of a challenge for COC outreach positions who are more working on housing navigation are housing focused.

So

A day, no.

So if we're both in the same boat, will we be able to get on the same boat?

Because the problem is great, size.

So two additional staff members hand it to Misty as an option, but two additional staff members is not what it's going to take.

If the request from the COC is additional supports to add outreach workers across all three of you, or however it were proposed, it would come with that condition.

I'd say our request, the way we would like to devote our resources would be to identifying alternate encampment sites that would be easier to access, easier to service, easier to provide safety.

And this is the kind of work that the Public Spaces Working Group has been doing to identify alternate locations.

That's the kind of work that we would like, if folks are gonna be forced to move,

We would love for them to be able to move to a better situation that's not going to have these same issues in six months from now.

So can we find a better location where we can admit we've identified the concerns?

It's cooking, it's propane, it's the floodway.

Can we identify an alternate location to quickly, humanely,

from the CSC standpoint offer to folks from the city standpoint, it might be require or, so again, this is where there is a little bit of a philosophical tension.

I want to just add an additional question is if the city did that,

So part of our need for this whole subset of needs, we have not gotten to the others, we need a full-time project manager to coordinate our encampment response, the setting up an alternate campsite, getting the clutch consulting proposal rolling again.

There is enough work for one full-time staff member who the CSC would be glad to take on

Well, again, we have boards.

This has been Quick Conversations.

So but the three of us are enthusiastic pending board approval to have a project manager who can hit the short term needs, the medium term needs and the long term rehousing needs, get all of those balls rolling.

within conjunction with the city.

So that's something we are eager to dig into.

We do need funding for that position, right?

We're all, so that would need, city would need to provide funding for at least one year position for a project manager.

Off hand, I would guess that with benefits, that would be around $80,000.

But some of the, obviously those details would need to be worked out,

We see the need to respond.

So yeah, that's... You had mentioned, I guess maybe I'm applying a different verb than you did, but is it reviving or revisiting the clutch consulting project?

That works out to over $35,000 per person.

It does, that's right.

33 per person bazaar.

35.5 actually if you divide 50 into 1775.

My question is, I have no idea what is expensive within that field.

That seems to my outside eyes as being ridiculously expensive, but I don't know what standard to judge that against.

At what point does somebody say,

There's got to be a cheaper way to do it than that.

We're not going to pay $35,000 per person for 18 months.

Specifically for numbers, 25 of that 35 are rental subsidies.

with an average cost of living.

We're estimating about $1,500 per month rent per person.

That's $18,000 per person plus the additional.

We need to pay landlords additional security deposits.

additional fees so that they will take a risk on our folks.

Some of those funds we get back, but the majority of that is rental subsidy support for folks.

So this is why BRAC's board made a pause in terms of this conversation because we saw the numbers.

Clutch and Community Solutions has worked with much larger populations and obviously there's a higher affordable housing vacancy.

And so the thought process is to your point, how do we find someone who has a more nuanced approach that can take the time to learn Charlottesville, learn Charlottesville's specific needs and help us from that vantage point?

So there was the conversation

Hey, thanks.

Backing us up, you'd originally mentioned there were like four things you were going to talk about.

And we got stuck at the relocation.

So relocation is the second and third thing.

So it's identifying and creating infrastructure for an alternative encampment, which we would like to propose Holiday Drive as an alternative encampment location.

Since the city owns it, it is not in the floodplain.

It is easy to access.

The second piece is creating management protocols for that alternative encampment location.

What are the rules?

What are the requirements?

How do folks cope?

Again, the Public Space Working Group has been digging into this.

We've begun to like, identify what are the management protocols we would need in place.

I guess I would also add that there's a lot of, the Rivanna Trail Foundation, for example, has a ton of volunteers.

Rivanna Trail reps think that their volunteers would be very motivated to help create

And then the fourth is leading the rehousing initiative.

So this is the clutch consulting effort.

So we have touched on all four of them in one shape or form.

We haven't talked about Holiday Drive as a possible encampment location.

And so the clutch piece, their focus is on rehousing, not shelter management.

Or what counts as housing for them?

Is it hotel?

Is it shelter?

OK. And so in the interim, what are like how close is the city or the organizations or in partnership or with whatever grants we can apply for?

How close are we to being able to buy or lease a hotel?

And who's leading that conversation?

And if there was a hotel, that could be a destination for the direct housing initiative.

So the direct housing initiative is like the mechanism by which we get folks out of encampments into housing, the destination

Typically, Klutch puts folks into market-rate rentals.

It would be a lot easier if we had an alternative or transitional housing option for folks.

We're probably talking about all of the above.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's what makes it challenging because all these things are very expensive and the question is how much of them can we do at the same time?

So, so I mean, what, since we just looking at ideas, what if we, you know, look at, you know, I think we're looking at 18 months, like what if we like said,

use financial incentive to expedite the construction of the holiday drive, reconstruction.

When I was in transportation, we would use incentives for them to finish projects.

I'm thinking about the big railroad 29.

I mean, that was done like months and months and months ahead of time because they had a financial, they were working like,

around the clock on holidays and things.

I just think we just need to, a lot of this will be resolved if we get that holiday in drive done and hearing about meetings and talking to architects.

We just need to get the damn thing done.

And I know it's a lot of conversations need to take place, but if we do that, then we can be able to say, you know what?

You can't be here.

We don't want you here.

But you know what?

We have a place for you to go with services and things that you can do.

And that's, you know, but I know that it's going to take time for that.

What's happening along the river is not acceptable.

It's not like it's a lot of ideas out there.

And, you know,

We don't have all the answers here.

We won't be able to say do A, B, or C tonight, but we need to come up with something because it's not acceptable for the residents there, the businesses, or say for our house brothers and sisters there.

We can do better to take care of those residents out there.

We have the brainpower here and, you know, Klutch and others to, you know, to try to address this.

We don't have enough housing, you know, and that's one of the reasons that it's so high.

And that's why, you know, that we're in this situation now that we don't have enough housing.

Yes, I do.

Thank you.

OK.

I could use a better sense of who's willing to do what because if you say relocate to me, that is prioritizing indoors.

I think that hotel, something that is acting shelter-ish that is immediately available.

So I think we would have to still have, as you've mentioned in your letter, all the things, an outdoor encampment area because of

We may not be able

The problem changes from fire to heat exhaustion.

Indoors is the way to go in the most compassionate way we can address this.

But it is multi-pronged because immediately you're saying, even if we start tomorrow, we still need port-a-johns and wraparound supports and more engagement people down there to be mobilized and to strike that team tomorrow.

It's an 18 months long program.

Placement to housing, right.

But could clutch work on with us indoors as in a hotel?

Would that suffice?

Are you saying that is an option for them or it has to be long-term housing?

Do they consider hotel?

I think we can set this project up however we want to.

I think we want to get to market rate housing.

I'm saying in the phasing of this, are we ready to

set some groundwork and rules on the city side that move folks instantly in the next two weeks out of the most critical zones of the river with engagement and support.

That would be ideal, but just moving, can we do some engagement that says, do you have anywhere else to go?

Is there someplace to go?

If we displace people in two weeks, they will disperse.

So we need in the immediate, not only the supports down there, but the instant plan for getting the first priority set of folks into what I would say indoor housing would be preferred, but this other site.

So can you in tandem do the work to identify who needs to move and set up

the other encampment zone and a hotel?

What's the timeline?

Okay, so if we had a project manager, then they could probably working with the public space working group, the resources we have, we could set up an alternative camping location within three to five months.

At the same time, we're engaging Clutch and getting the Direct Housing Initiative going again.

Clutch is very ambitious with their timelines, but that does involve staffing up.

We have one outreach person right now.

There's just not the capacity.

So the project manager is working on hiring,

and coordinating these different projects.

So if you were saying, if I was saying to you, what can we do in eight to 12 weeks?

And I'm choosing those numbers only from a very limited set of research I've done on cities our size who have relocated encampments and folks living in them inside two hotels is the only example I have and other encampment sites.

That was an eight to 12 weeks.

So three month, eight to 12 week process.

What could we feasibly get done if magic genie lamp, everything was available for staffing the project management in eight to 12 weeks in your mind?

So from, from, from me being BRAC's chair, I think this is a much larger conversation in terms of like strategy.

and this is why BRAC again has had conversations with various folks in terms of RFP to help us figure out what this process would look like versus what apparatus we use in terms of the, I don't want to say the enclosing, but getting the encampments taken care of in a humane process.

So I think that that conversation, again, we just started that conversation or we continued that conversation in terms of what's going to be the best fit and how we're going to get the best bang for our buck in terms of that.

I will say in terms of the CLC,

The entire COC stands ready to collaborate with the city in whatever humane capacity is possible to solve this problem.

We just need to have a chance to kind of gather our bearings, figure out what resources are available to develop that plan of action.

But I emphasized to the board on yesterday, this is, we need to move quickly.

Yeah, I don't think it's a tiny plan.

I mean, to speak back to what you're saying, I think this is a plan that is massive that says step one, Port of Johns to housing and all the thread that connects it all are the people who help connect the people to the steps along the path.

There's just an immediate like strike zone right now because of the environment bearing down on us with hurricane season and the state of the situation from a public health perspective and

we have to work both micro and macro on it.

So I'm trying to figure out where we, are we the city, the overarching piece?

Are we the strike piece?

And then we come in later, like it would be great to see what we can accomplish to solve this on that long spectrum and what we need so we can say we actually need 12 workers.

Fiver working on strike, Fiver working on long-term housing, Fiver working on the crew.

We still have to identify everyone.

I mean, we have to priority list them.

I'm assuming like we've got to figure that out.

I don't know if we know everybody down there.

Even the engagement has been amazing.

Timeline, what you can do as a COC, what if you had the right staffing and you had the right resources you would be willing to do?

You're always like, not going to say, I'm going to make an ordinance, that's us, right?

I think define the roles and then a reassurance that you could do that in tandem to number two, because I'm not willing to give up on how long you drive progress.

I don't know about these things.

I've captured the question and I think that's where we are.

I think what I hear you saying is

And I'll just say as a final statement for myself, I think one of the challenges is

We know the environment is immediately crisis level unsafe in terms of flood risk, fire risk, access.

And the city, at least in my perspective, is going to have to impose some level of structure and rules and relocation to safer areas on a faster timeline than five plus months.

I mean, I'm not a lawyer, but in my mind, I mean, this is approaching an area of gross negligence where the city is,

I know we're running right up to time.

If we decide that Holiday Drive could be an alternative camping location, I'm nervous about the fact that three to five months was put out there as the time we would need to allow people to get there.

If that's a time limit that just is using the resources, the immediate resources of the COC, I think we probably

would expand that into resources that the city has to go notify people and to help with the move the way that we did it a couple years ago.

So I would hope that that three to five months could be consolidated into a much shorter timeframe.

Is that a reasonable assumption that if the city staff and volunteers that you mentioned were able to give a week of notice, assist with moving items,

If Holiday Drive is open to camping and there's time to prepare the site and generate infrastructure, we do need a project manager for this.

So we need to hire someone.

So it certainly shortens the timeline significantly from three to five months.

But there are some rate limiting steps there still.

Site has to be prepared, project manager has to be hired.

And to clarify, I'm not making promises here.

I'm asking questions about timelines.

So thank you.

And I do want to just one one quick thank you and appreciation note before we close that the the conversation that you've driven today, you came out and you came organized with requests for specific actions.

I think that that indicates that

you're as a group, as three groups, you're working together well, which I think, you know, we can kind of bank on that now, which is good.

But I know that there's still challenges from operations level to board level communication and then with the city.

So I'm glad that we're asking for additional meets.

And I think there's a lot of if thens.

And as soon as one decision gets made, things will fall into place.

And so

So I think the first thing is there's going to be some meetings that you're going to be involved in.

And then, sorry, I know we didn't get to assessing COC structure.

Are we on a hard deadline or should we not?

What I'll say to that, and Ruby if you would pull up the slide deck and go to the last slide.

What I'll say to just item number six is the question that I would suggest there is

What does that mean?

What does assessing the COC structure look like?

And that becomes a part of this exchange that begins here that finds its way back to council as the way of information.

My wrap up is, before we had this conversation, I tried to predict what we were going to end up needing to talk about as next steps.

So here's what I heard, and I'm not prophetic, but this is what I do.

The providers, how do you align to produce an operating plan for holiday drive?

We have touched on that this evening.

How would you activate overnight sheltering at Holiday Drive right now?

That's part of what you just heard as part of a request that we have heard before.

If we were to go that route, in addition to or in place of alternative campsite, how would you activate Holiday Drive right now?

I think that is a question we would love for you to give us an answer to.

How will you determine and produce individual budget requests for the Holiday Drive project?

We've had conversations about that as well.

For me, how do you intend to manage encampments in the city of Charlottesville?

That is my obligation.

And I have made it clear that what we see today cannot continue as is, it has to change.

So I began to work on that and I'll continue that work.

I shouldn't say it again because I'm already doing it.

How will you operationalize expanded homeless outreach capacity?

I think we hear that loud and clear from the COC request.

And we have also indicated that we're having internal conversations about how we would do that as staff.

City Management Council, how will you finalize the vision plan for Holiday Drive?

I think we have shared exactly where we are at this moment.

That 27,000 square feet is what we purchased.

That is what we hope to activate.

We need to know what the impact of that firm decision is so that we can then solve for the impacts of that and plan for alternatives or augmentations.

to that impact because the desire is loud and clear.

We would prefer that all three organizations are at this site.

That is the desire.

That's where we started and nothing has changed in regards to that.

City Council, how do you get comfortable with the tensions and trade-offs that result from this effort?

You know, those are my two favorite words as it relates to doing your job because it's never easy and you will never have an easy answer for any of these complicated questions.

And how do you prepare the community for this long and hard conversation?

Because I think what we have also indicated is time is needed for everything.

Nothing goes quick.

None of this can be done overnight.

And I would stress that we have to be careful.

It was any effort to rush because the community wellbeing report for the city of Charlottesville said that we have had a sustained presence of unhoused individuals at a very high number since 2007.

That's what I'm trying to get everyone to not lose sight of.

This has been going on for some time.

We cannot fix this overnight.

This is a long-standing issue that we're going to have to address and that is why all hands on deck is the request that I'm making.

We have to come at this from every angle that we possibly can.

I think as a community we punch above our weight class, as you know I like to say, and for that I say that we should be able to do this.

There is enough resources in here, there's enough brain power, there's enough commitment to wanting to care for these individuals in a way that is better than what we see today and that we can do our best to do it in a compassionate manner.

I've been consistent about that.

I believe that wholeheartedly and I recognize the job that I have is hard and it conflicts with that.

So I'm doing my best to ensure that what actions come next will come from having thought this through and tried to plan for every version of what could happen and to ensure that if you ask the question of why did it I have an answer and if you ask what are we doing next I also have an answer because we can't stop.

That's where I am.

Could I ask one thing?

That would be that we just plan at every Monday council meeting to have at least a two minute update on where things stand.

Can I ask that we can ask for some help from our friends like other localities and municipalities to

I've had a couple of engagements with our region, so the COC's region is my peer region.

I made a presentation to them of the concept when we were initially pursuing this property.

I brought them in on the conversation when it was about Cherry Avenue.

I made it clear to all of them that I do intend to come and make a case for why they each should find money.

and be a part of this coordinated effort because everyone here is not just people who came from here.

And for that I think we should be able to rely on them to support us.

And I think it was well received because I did not hear a huff and a gruff in the room.

I think everyone indicated that they understood that this is something that we all need to rally around and do something about.

Thank you all so much for coming out.

Is there a motion to adjourn?

All in favor please say yes.