Board of Architectural Review Meeting   2/18/2026

There's one here.

They moved our cheese.

I move to approve the consent agenda.

Second.

Mr. Warner, would you like to start with your staff report?

Do you have any questions for me?

Would you like to give a presentation or speak to this?

Thank you.

Do we have any questions from the public?

No.

OK. Any questions from the BAR?

Can we have me comment?

Just in case anybody's listening online or watching

That's it.

OK, thank you.

You're not going for rehabilitation tax credits, are you?

No.

Did you say that the window units, the air conditioner units, are those going away?

But yes, no more AC units.

Any comments from the public?

So I'm fully in support of this.

I don't really have any objections to the application.

I would say that the kind of cumulative benefit of new windows in the kind of overall preservation of the building is definitely a net positive for the user benefit comfort and just sort of general appreciation of the building so I support this.

I'm impressed that you got the photos that you did.

Second.

If anybody, we didn't really talk about materiality.

I can put the proposal, give that as submitted, that they're going to go with those conditions.

That's all I'm saying.

I am fine with that.

I mean, it seems like they've chosen what they want, but anybody can say, can agree with Ron and just

and retaining the existing exterior trim or if that easier term has to be replaced to replace it with something that is similar.

Ms. Lewis?

Aye.

Mr. Rosenthal?

Yes.

Ms. Taveny?

Yes.

So the next item on the agenda is a certificate of appropriateness application for the historic downtown mall replacement of the trash cans.

I'm sorry.

No, you're good.

The original can, there is a photograph in your staff report.

Oh, there is?

It's been a, yeah.

I mean that was obviously just a curiosity.

kind of like a tapered lid down to a hole and it's the one sitting at central place on top of it it's hiding as a tree they removed a tree they put the trash can on top of it and it's been there forever and I've somewhat opposed any touching of it I think it's become something

Is it attached to this pedestal?

So it's anchored.

The pedestal's anchored.

Yeah, a pedestal that's anchored to the mall floor and then the can is latched onto it in some way.

Any other questions for staff?

Okay.

Any questions from the public?

How are the current ones emptied if they're hanging?

It seems like they swing and move the bag, but I took his word for it.

Yeah.

And they're available.

Any other questions from the VAR?

And not the Pacman mouth hole.

So it's really hard to know what's recycling and what's, without recognizing the fact that you got the little round hole versus a big opening.

Unless there are other comments, I'm ready with a motion.

Okay, now we'll go to comments from the BAR.

So just throwing that out there to Parks and Rec, does the BAR actually care that this trash can looks exactly like the one that showed up sometime in the early 2000s?

But if the idea is to have, I do see value in consistency and appearance.

has it been considered?

Maybe that's why the current ones were hung.

But if we're a little bit less concerned about that, then I'm wondering if it would be worth shopping around a little more.

You could have it where it's got a padlock.

Yeah.

And the replacement has a hinged lid, so that might not be optimal.

I want to ask you a question, Carl.

You know, and is that going to be happening regardless?

I think the $19,500 was for, they preemptively bought six trash cans for when some of these fail in the future, they can just pop any one in place.

Okay, so that's just trash cans.

Yeah, so Jeff you can, the cost of the granite would be something extra, correct?

And 99% of the time it's not true, but you do see other departments responding to this fear that the BAR somehow...

I'm worried that they chose this because someone decided that the existing trash cans that aren't original are somehow sacred because they're there.

Is Cliff with the city or no?

And have these trash cans already been purchased?

They haven't purchased anything beyond those.

So they still will have six more trash cans that can fail that they can replace before they move on to the new ones.

And we're going to talk about that, in fact, at the end of the meeting, another opportunity for some collaboration on them all.

Like, if you didn't think that you had to match it exactly, would there be a better option out there?

Well, I will put, I mean, and I think that's a great question for them to accomplish.

$3,000 at trash cans.

So I mean, these are good questions, but they do have a COA before us.

I doubt the city is charging themselves a fee to do a COA.

Totally a separate comment, but if we're trying to promote recycling in the city like we do, it's kind of lame.

I guess it's the number of them.

But I'm fine with this design.

That's a very good question.

Is it single stream or not?

That's my motion.

Ms. Lewis?

Aye.

Mr. Rosenthal?

Yes.

Ms. Taveny?

Yes.

New trash cans, yikes.

Do my questions get forwarded to Parks and Rec?

Okay.

Thank you.

The project is construction of nine townhomes.

Any questions for me?

Do you all want to give any sort of presentation?

So that's really what, this is in response to the city zoning and what's being allowed in the residential lots and trying to squeeze in that needed housing stock.

I think scale and massing is our next topic of discussion.

It seems like an afterthought almost of the two entry porches.

Is there an image that would be more helpful for you?

I think the axonometric.

The axon's not bad.

It's sort of bird's eye.

Yeah.

So picky.

Yeah, the railroads, there's a rise there for the sea monsters and the world inside.

So they're a full story above the house itself.

And if SHMP has already passed on that, that's great.

So we're kind of trying to fit things where they can go

Three.

Yeah, it's max three stories or 40 foot in RV zoning.

Maybe this is a question for the architect.

that we tried to emulate with this, but also make it look like it's new stock and it's not trying to replicate something that's existing there.

It's not prevented by zoning.

Again, we're at the layout that we're at.

In the site plan?

Probably.

It's the three dots and a dash.

So yeah, there may be some more back and forth of that, but we're not going to get more space than what we're showing now.

Right, exactly.

Staying parallel to the street there is not helping.

function of your building and where the windows are falling and sort of celebrate what's going on from the interior there.

It's Building 1 that's much warmer.

So it sort of dwarfs everything.

It's that this house here, it's not over here, it's this relationship here, so if they're away for that, I was looking for the leisure, but away for that left-hand side, they pit it.

So go to the plan.

The 180, yeah, that's interesting.

What if you aligned it similar to the other two, where what's now the front of the building becomes the back and is aligned more with the property line, right?

That's what Kate was saying.

I guess I'm agreeing with what she was saying.

It's not the whole...

With a jog in it.

I didn't say that.

I did not say that.

Pushing.

Doing that.

It's on the bottom.

But I think if the main mass is parallel to the creek, I think it would work, and you wouldn't be any closer to the creek than you already are with this.

Still right there.

You said you had checked on that.

How much parking do you have?

We're currently showing 15 spaces.

For how many units?

Do you have nine?

Right now there's a lot of parking in the front yard, so trying to get rid of that situation and allow that beautiful porch to be shown.

So there is one long term bike parking per unit plus two or so short term break spaces.

And this is pretty close to a lot of the EVA areas, I think.

And this owner also owns 526?

Yeah.

I know we're supposed to only look at what's being submitted to us, but no.

He asked the second question.

Have you thought about redeveloping 526 or adding on to it?

I mean, it looks like there's a lot of real estate there.

I don't know that that has been brought to us as a topic of consideration, but I can certainly ask the owner.

Who did that?

It's not an IPP, so it seems like the majority are that kind of Cape Cod style.

Yeah, the brick, Cape Cod, you know.

The sort of dormer window is maybe a way to kind of reduce the feel of the height but still achieve your three stories, you know, be on a bigger scale of course but I think yeah like you can see how some of those all of them almost have dormer windows so that's a feature that you can pick up on that's in the district right and respects the district sort of colonial revival Cape Cottie

And again, you're talking about building one and not necessarily saying one, two, and three have to all match.

Very compatible 526.

I don't know if that's the way it wants to go, but that's just my opinion.

Do you have some specific things you wanted to hit us up with?

Wow.

So it's that close to the thickness of a brick veneer?

It's pretty close and we worry about constructability with getting contractors in to do the work so we don't want to put things right up on the edge but especially getting a mason that would turn that corner between the buildings but yes that is something we can explore.

Think at least fiber cement.

We'll see what we can do there.

But that's pretty explicit in our guidelines that vinyls, we don't want to see that.

Decent summary, any additions?

So that's streaming now, but just go to the city's web page and follow up.

Thank you so much for bringing it to us.

Thank you.

All right, our next pre-application conference is Zero Lexington Avenue, the construction of a new single-family home.

Zero Lexington Avenue.

So it's a new house, right?

You're legit now.

So any questions for me?

Would you guys like to know if you have a presentation or not, or just want to ask questions, whatever you prefer?

You can ask questions.

Thank you very much.

Yeah.

Thanks.

Have you guys worked with Doning yet on this?

And so we'll get that resolved.

I guess I'm actually more wondering about the carport.

Oh, he gave thumbs up to move forward with that.

Interesting.

OK.

Okay.

Were you thinking that it explicitly said?

To find out what his interpretation is.

No, again, and I want the goal of this meeting to be as, yeah, with the previous applicant, everything, and what we can't do is just as helpful as what we can do, so.

Is this a single property that's being divided by the owner?

My colleague, Michael, can speak more to this one.

both lapsed together and immediately divided it.

That could become a little more opaque with maybe a low wall or maybe some openings or maybe even just sort of a culmination that breaks that scale down a little bit.

It's not so much the roof line that's problematic, but just breaking it up a bit?

I mean, it might be just as simple as having another couple posts there, in my mind.

What material for the siding?

So hopefully brick, but if we have budget constraints, then it will be, yeah, hardy, horizontal, plain, exciting.

And the materials they submitted.

Is the intention to kind of match the aesthetic of the neighboring property with the volume?

But yeah, we were kind of trying to just tie in with the adjacent house there.

I got it.

I think having a brick or hardy.

No, I think the hardy would wrap all the way around.

I don't know that it can't be resolved, but I think it's a curious condition that I would like to see more of, more resolution of the details.

I know our clients would like something very maintenance-free, but yeah, this is all good food for thought, because I have not dug into the materials yet.

Are there driveways in the adjacent properties or in the neighborhood?

I think a lot of just asphalt neighboring the driveways.

I mean they're off to the sides of the houses, they're never kind of

an eyesore, but having a big asphalt driveway going up on the front of the house isn't exactly beautiful either.

It's probably over there.

Can you pick the other house on the other side real quick?

These are not in the district.

716, I think.

Yeah, it's right there.

Is that house, does it have additions on the back?

Yeah, it definitely has, at a certain point.

Multiple additions.

Things added on.

There's pictures of the staff over there.

Yes.

And then if you needed to save a little money, switch to already going back.

Kind of like with the neighboring house,

You've already broken it down on your roof line, right?

Right, right.

Match that as you go back to make it like a faux additions, if you will.

That was unique.

Is that how you're going to build it?

I like it.

If you got your yes, take it.

Carl happens to be really... Carl is the enforcer.

Yes, Carl.

And has no role in enforcing the zoning code at all, but just is trying to be a little bit helpful.

So we heard nothing that, but I think Carl's.

There could be an exception to single family houses that I completely miss because the zoning code is so complicated.

I do want to get that sign off to continue forward.

Fantastic.

And again, with a budget backup option, just asphalt shingles.

Sorry.

Yeah.

and I'm not a fan of the cap on the standing seam roof, but this isn't, it's not a historic building, so I'm not gonna die on that hill.

Wait, what?

What is the district?

There you go.

Who are we raising that?

I've never really understood how that might be applied to a COA new dwelling or an alteration.

Adjoining properties, it was, on 8th Street and Maple.

I'm going to tell Parks and Rec if they need COAs for new... Or if a project came up on the cemetery itself, right?

Maybe that was where to apply.

I think it's a great solution on this one.

I would encourage a robust post at that corner.

Would you all be comfortable

I would say yes.

I think if this thing stays relatively the same in terms of form and massing and the details we've talked about, then I think I'm okay with that.

I'll just be in the minority and say just voyeuristically I'd like to see if we can come up with something.

Are you making this handicapped accessible?

That's the goal as much as we can.

Okay, so the front door is going to be wider than a typical front door.

and no steps.

Anything else?

And there's nothing that you're doing that would suggest otherwise, but I think it's worthwhile.

If we think about it, it's also from St. Charles and the other side.

Do you have any other questions for us before we break up?

Yeah, I think it was fine.

And also the grade, this isn't high up or pronounced, it sort of steps down a little so I don't think that's a problem at all.

And then just following up on what you were talking about with coming back, so I would bring this project back again at one more meeting probably as like an action item, is that it?

Yeah.

And then when typically in the design process is that best to bring back for the second time?

As much as you've got.

So at the end of design?

When you know what the outside's going to look like.

But we don't need to see interior detail.

OK.

I do like the Christmas Closet, though.

Yes, that was a very important problematic element.

That's right.

Great.

Appreciate it.

Why can't I think of where we found the cemetery in the woods?

It was the Nemo house.

We screamed like little girls.

James and Jody did some demolition, exploratory work.

Do you guys need a break or anything?

Depends on how long you want to go.

OK, you may have.

We'll see which ones you've been boarding.

And now cafe spaces.

You can call that Carl, but Carl, I think, wanted to.

Warm isn't a yellow.

We're expecting this spring, you'll start to see some, a little more engagement.

Didn't we talk about that and decide it was like if there was a change in ownership or something?

And so we're not, I think the idea is sometime in March to start sort of having conversations with the, but a person has been given the job of the downtown manager and will be taking on some of this liaison work with the operators.

Like if someone wanted to request a variance on the cafe space guidelines that we kind of redefined

They would have to apply for a COA.

COA, and then it would come to us.

Right.

But if they- But this liaison could maybe hopefully curb that before it gets to us?

That's the hope.

That's the goal.

Does that make sense?

If someone really wants to do something- Then they should come to us.

Agreed.

Agreed.

But we're getting there on those, and I do see some light at the end of the tunnel.

There's a gatekeeper, so to speak, where we're not getting hit up with every single vendor wanting one more baker's rack to put plates on, you know what I mean?

I don't know, I just throw it out in case you might say, hey, I looked at it, I have all the original drawings.

Like apparently the street lights, at least at one point there were gas lights.

There are two old street lights down on, if you walk down Parkway.

There's still gas.

Yeah, well.

Mr. Bernard, can you please tell me the file location?

I cut it off a little bit, yes.

Different world.

And in fact these are 12 inch by 12 inch, 24 inch granite blocks.

So I said I'd rather you brick them over than you start just tearing out some of this fabric.

And so Mr. Gaspiar pointed out to me the other day, he said well they make these

But then I still need the additional 12 inches.

Yes, sir?

Do we have to have the tactile pavers the full 24 inches?

That's my understanding.

Where is that coming from?

Just trying to offer ideas of compromise to where we want to get the fountains open.

And where I've looked it up, everywhere I've seen, it's a 24 inch minimum.

Is that Lawrence Halperin or who is standing above Mr. Halperin?

I tried to get him thinking, but I didn't.

So is that an ADA thing?

So it's, and I understand what you're saying, and I can talk to them about it.

If it can be 12 inches, I agree, and we do it this way.

They have to be that difference.

Were the grapes put there as a safety?

The railings.

The railings.

Sort of.

Well, you saw they never used to have anything there.

Yeah.

And then we put up the traffic enclosures for several years.

So you can't have a barrier free.

And then the idea did come back to me.

I said, if it opens up those fountains,

So this was that compromise.

Yes.

We could rent those as cafe spaces.

Go now to the Mr. House.

So I just want to add that even if ADA code requires 24 inches, if we came up with a solution that was in the spirit of the code, I think this is a National Historic Landmark should weigh into that.

But if you have ideas, otherwise.

We just gave you one.

That's what I'm saying.

and in what manner?

So these are good ideas, and I know Public Works is enthused to make it happen.

Are they saying, go ahead and take the barriers down and fire them back up?

No, with that, yes.

But also trying to kind of?

And in fact, if you go back and some of the brick work is so lousy, I gladly admit that's embarrassing.

making that concession to achieve that goal is worth it.

Central place is a little more problematic.

And the reason being, and I don't know how to solve it, but you can fix it.

This is a stacked sailor, of course, at the edge.

We should be removing that to put in this tactile.

Is that original material?

But what happens is once you then step outside of this band and dissolve, you can see the sides go to the next slide.

You've got a runnel.

Now it may even be that we only take down two sides of the change.

Are they going to let people walk down the steps and put their feet in the water?

Maybe that's some of what I'm saying here.

I don't know the answer to these questions, but I have been saying this sequence of steps is critical.

No, I said it would be nice to have a landscape architect on the video.

I mean, isn't this something that the city would hire a landscape architect to do?

You've already had some good ideas that I can take back and you know.

But presumably you'd be getting enough of them or whatever it might be.

And a good point about adding those things.

If that's what we have to do to get it okay, but it seems like that potentially it'd be very costly to buy a bunch of those presumably stainless steel nubs and drill them into all that granite around each of the fountains.

Well, there's not much granite left.

Is that the required?

If you use a detectable warning surface, it's got to be those.

I'm just wondering if there are other options.

Oh, yeah, there's those brilliant yellow mats that we can look at.

Thin pavers.

Now granted that was the university's building official and I think they've now since gone to the yellow, but it was a good, it wasn't as visually, we had a curve that kind of came in front that gave the color change.

Just the edge here, if we're just one course of tactile

But if it is possible to say a 12-inch strip

and also in combination with that lighter colored material, that might work.

Then on a hot day in the summer, the kids are going to go jump in the fountains.

I remember when they did in the 90s, the dogs too.

His will.

I'm going to put my feet in there too.

I've left a few concerts where people are in the fountains after the concerts.

We cannot go looking for a special order or something or other.

In the order is non-odible?

It's heavily chlorine treated, isn't it?

It's city water.

How?

I mean, the only other thought I have is, are there examples of similar fountains in other cities that have this challenge that we could look to as present?

Thank you very much.

I move we adjourn.

Second.

All in favor.

Aye.

So off the record.