Bicycle & Pedestrian Advisory Committee Meeting   12/4/2025

Quick round of introductions, although I think none of us is, maybe none of us is new, but we'll do it anyway.

I'm Guadarriquez.

I live in Belmont.

I'm the co-chair of BPAC.

Also, say your favorite piece of winter outerwear.

My wife just... Ah, the new socks.

Beautiful.

I live in Belmont and I don't like winter.

And so my favorite... Oh no, I'll show you my new piece of favorite outerwear.

Look at this muppety thing that I got for when you ride your bike, you can put it on like this.

That's what I love.

I'm Mer.

I live in Spring.

Thomas.

Tommy Sopranick, biking, pedestrian coordinator.

Probably the orange raincoat that I wear while biking every day.

I had that for 10 years.

and never wore it.

And then when I started biking, I was like, this is perfect.

There was a call.

We'll start with Josh Cron.

Hey, Josh Cron, Locust Grove, North Avenue.

Scarf guy.

Pass the mic.

Hey, Ethan Tate, Martha Jefferson neighborhood favorite winter outerwear is ski boots.

Started getting my six-year-old into skiing this year and that is a lot of fun.

Yeah, I'm Peter Krebs.

I'm a Belmont resident, and I work for the Piedmont Environmental Council.

My favorite new-ish piece of outerwear is like waterproof ski mittens that allow me to walk, bike, or run in any weather.

My hands are good, at least.

Hi everyone, Azish Phalabi, Belmont resident.

And great question, I never leave home without my puffy coat once it's below 40.

Zoe Mackenberg, transit planner with the city.

I was using today my new gloves that are tactile that I can use on my phone while I was out doing bus inventory.

So that's a good one.

Thank you.

Hello, Waiwai.

There's downtown.

Oh, yeah.

I'm Paul Ruggasil.

I'm the city's ADA coordinator, and I really don't have a favorite pair of or any kind of clothes for the winter.

I like the winter, so I'll just relax in it.

Awesome.

All right.

I see Cindy and Josh are analysts, but maybe are not.

Well, I'll promote them to make an accept.

Yeah.

So Cindy and Josh, if you just accept Tommy's invitation then.

All right.

And Josh Karp will pass it to you.

OK. Josh lives near Forsyles Park and leads the e-bike lending library.

And I don't know his favorite.

And Cindy, welcome you to join us at any point if you like and find also if you'd rather not.

Thanks everybody.

Approval of the agenda and meeting notes.

I just want to acknowledge Meredith and her excellent meeting notes.

And even if they don't arrive and when she would like them to, they're very thorough and just really grateful that she shows up every month and records what we talked about.

I'm happy to move to the agenda and meeting notes from last month.

We'll share some public comments.

Anyone have a public comment?

I would like to talk about the budget.

And I'm sorry if I didn't have time to like really closely look at it, but my understanding is that it's not much and it's even lower than like many years ago.

And I heard that also the region, one of the main reason was that there's not specific project attached to it and the city wouldn't

budget without specific project.

So I was really kind of, it's hard to reconcile because based on what I know, bike infrastructure is like one of the like really high return project.

Every dollar invested, usually people estimate $3 in return in the future due to the

improvement in public health, productivity, low maintenance of the infrastructure, and so on and so forth.

And also, people estimated that every dollar, I mean, every mile changed from driving to biking, that return, that has a dollar or more of return to the society.

And it also cuts down carbon emission, like almost eliminate carbon emission.

And the ownership cost of driving a car or owning a car is like more than 10K per year.

Right.

And that can directly go to local businesses.

and studies and studies have shown that people on the bike spend either about the same amount or more money on local shops because it's much easier to stop and park and spend and bike costs almost negligible wear and tear to the road infrastructure.

So given all these things already known to us,

And given that almost no street in Charlottesville have a traffic calming, for instance, and that means I would not feel safe to let my kids bike alone in most of the Charlottesville streets.

And given that, it's like, it sounds really kind of lame excuse that we cannot spend more because we don't have projects.

Because in every street I encounter on my route to work or on my route to drop off my kids, like every single street

require more traffic calming, more improvement in terms of bike infrastructure and pedestrian infrastructure, of course.

Given that, I really cannot reconcile that together.

I see literally every street requires more work, and I know that this traffic infrastructure is very expensive.

Like one street creating this traffic calming infrastructure requires like 500k as far as I know.

And why there's so little budget for bike infrastructure?

Yeah, end of comments.

Thank you, Albemarle.

I appreciate that.

Anyone else for a follow-up comment this evening?

and I'm seeing a comment in the chat and I'm not sure who said it because I can't see the name.

Josh Carr, I agree with all this, but maybe staff can talk about funding sources for traffic coming that don't come from bike infrastructure, the bike infrastructure line item and then CIP.

And I think YY what you're referring to is the Capital Improvements Project budget, which is in active conversation right now.

So it is absolutely the time to be talking about what we would like to see in that budget.

Thanks, Guinevere.

Just a quick announcement that tomorrow is our normal bi-monthly Piedmont Mobility Alliance meeting.

Normally, it's a hybrid meeting, but because of the weather, it's entirely virtual.

Information about that meeting can be found at PECVA.org slash events.

I'll also put that in the chat.

Thank you.

Yes, let's make sure we don't have any further public comment.

It's going to be on YouTube.

Accessibility is important for sure.

I just really quick want to make sure that people understand that YY's comment is specifically about bike infrastructure.

This is the Bike and Pedestrian Advisory Committee, so there's millions of dollars set aside towards sidewalk infrastructure.

Just keep that in mind.

But also keep in mind that there's also a lot of money set aside already for bike infrastructure.

and then we have not been able to spend that money.

So there is money set aside currently ready to go when projects are ready to be built and approved and all those fun things.

So that's part of the reason why it's not, additional funds aren't being requested in the CIP.

And there's a lot of funds being set aside for things like a concrete crew for public works so that we can build

than necessary infrastructures.

Got it.

Thank you, Tommy.

Seeing Josh's comment that it sounds from them like we're going to spend down most of the infrastructure fund next year.

And point of clarification, this upcoming CIP that is under review right now under discussion

to be voted on by city council.

What is the funding period?

Is it just FY 27?

Yeah.

So July 1.

Correct.

Correct.

I'll put a link in the chat when I find it.

Thank you for the clarification.

That's important.

And let's table this conversation.

I think we can come back to it when we get to the work plan part of the agenda.

All right, any final public comments?

All right.

This is more of just a heads up, but for our January meeting, well, first thing is that the first January, the first Thursday of the month in January is January 1st, so we will not be meeting on the 1st.

Yes, did you write that down somewhere?

It was in last month's meeting.

Yeah.

Okay.

So next month, January 8th, the January meeting is also what we call the annual meeting for BPAC.

It's when we elect the new slate of officers.

So if anyone is interested in serving as secretary, chair, vice chair, slash co-chairs, those are the three officer positions for BPAC.

So just bear that in mind.

If anyone would like to let that be known of their interests this evening, please do if that's something you know and you want to share.

So they're in the meeting notes that Meredith sent out today?

Yes.

So I can go through and update the city's calendar for all those things?

I think the only meeting where there was some question was the July meeting, because I think it's like July 3 or something is the first Thursday.

And it was unclear.

I think often in the July meeting,

We cancel because it's so close to July 4th and so many people are out of town.

So, hey.

Hello.

Oh, and I'm so sorry.

I'm seeing Peter's comment here in the chat.

YY's comments are valid.

There is only benefit in him making an articulate comment of that kind in writing to council with the council email address or via public comment.

And yes, absolutely.

All right.

Screen sharing the VPAC workflow.

I sent you a link.

Yes, exactly.

So we talked last month about the VPAC work plan.

If anyone would like to peruse.

So we discussed this last month, we took in some really good inputs from folks.

It's not shared for us.

It's coming.

It's coming.

Tommy's working on it.

Thank you, Zoe.

So, what we'd like to do tonight is just, we've woven some of the feedback we heard.

We'd like to revisit this as far as thinking about, like if I were doing this over again, I would actually bucket this a little differently.

I would be thinking about BPAC, like the buckets of activity for BPAC as advocacy.

advisory like advising staff and city leadership and other city committees and education and outreach and then I would put goals kind of under each of those buckets so that it feels very clear kind of what the lanes are for BPAC and then where everything kind of sorts out.

Right now it feels a little

or like it feels a little disorganized.

So I'll just name that and I'm happy to go back and kind of improve this work plan, like to restructure it so it just feels a little bit more organized.

Because I think we've got, and maybe this is just how my brain works, but it feels like we've got like some things are goals and some things are like activities and anyway, it's just like a little, it's a little, it feels a little out of whack.

and I would also like us to think about like how do we want to be fleshing out each of these things so that it feels very clear recognizing that there are always things to react to like there's always just going to be stuff that no one could prepare for and I think the clearer we can all be at the outset about the things we want to advocate for the things we want to you know we'll always take we'll always like be in sort of reactive mode when it comes to requests from staff about how to weigh in like

for example, on things like the VEO agreement or the city transportation plan.

So things that BPAC has always done as an advisory body, but I think also wanting to be a little bit more proactive about like, what do we want to, if we look back over the last 12 months, what is it that we want to say we've accomplished?

So kind of thinking about it in those terms.

Recognizing we are not an organization, we don't have funding, we are not paid, this is all something that we do,

with the exception of staff kind of off the side, the sides of our desks or bikes or whatever.

So, you know, we want our goals to be right-sized for an all-volunteer city committee.

And I think we want to be strategic.

Part of that is also making sure that we're working in deep coordination with other advocacy efforts in the community, like Mobility Alliance, like Liverpool Seabill, like C3,

who share a lot of the same goals as BPEC.

And so how can we not just think of ourselves as like advising city staff and kind of working within city government only, but how can we also be a kind of part of a broader ecosystem of activities that's, you know, where we're all advocating for the same thing, we're all kind of singing from the same songbook.

Part of that work is also just making sure that we are, you know, thankfully we have folks like Peter here, oftentimes Kevin Winchell from Community Bikes is here, and others who are coming to BPAC as members of their respective organizations.

So we are already in coordination, but how can we make sure that we're more deeply aligned?

Jen, I know you had suggested that we tend to some of the bullets that don't feel kind of as well or fully flesh out as they could be.

Yeah, I think we just want to get to a place or what, you know, what James was suggesting is like,

can we thread the needle so that we are getting them closer to final without workshopping the whole rest of the meeting on them so that in January at that annual meeting, then we can really tie them up with a bow.

And so I think it's number three, Tommy, if you'll... Yeah, so this has kind of the most questions to it.

And so I wondered if we should start with number three and then get this a little more solid

and maybe number five, outreach in the community.

Now, unfortunately, one is advisory and the other is education and outreach, so they'd be under two different buckets in your revision, but I think particularly number three, if we do want to go forward with that as part of the work plan, is one that could be very powerful for BPAC to advise because it is

It has a lot of policy implications.

Thank you.

And it'd be nice if we were at the head of that discussion.

Just kind of a reaction to what you said.

This is a quantum leap for PPEC.

We don't have to be perfect out of the gate.

So, you know, let's reward ourselves, pat ourselves deeply on the back for getting this far, knowing that we can make some improvements, knowing that a year from now we will have learned how to really massage this stuff even more effectively and more cleanly.

None of this is even possible to think about without the fact that y'all show up every month and you're willing to serve on some committees and you care about this stuff.

So yeah, just thank you.

I'm realizing too, Jen, with number three, part of what it's like, this is both, this is advisory, this is also has policy implications as you're

And a lot of, I think, what the questions are that are kind of embedded in here are actually things for the QuickBuild Subcommittee to take on as the work of formalizing the QuickBuild concept.

So in some ways, again, as I'm realizing kind of how disorganized this work plan is,

I think we could just be adjusting this so it's like, no, the thing to do is formalizing the committee and formalizing the process.

And then let's turn that over to the subcommittee over the coming year to make that happen.

No, it's not a cheat unless it isn't meant, unless QuickBuild is not meant to be in subcommittee.

That's the only reason.

Is it really something that deserves all of BPAC's attention, or should it really live in a subcommittee?

I don't know.

I don't know.

So I thought about at some point, and not from the starting gate, that we have to be bringing this to council so that there is a sense of this is the way it goes.

This is the means by which the departments are expected to respond to it.

This is the way that it's not just an exercise.

Yes.

I'm sorry.

I just want to be sure.

What is the effective tool?

Quick build process.

Yeah, and like formalizing, you know, like there were quick builds put down, you know, where I live on the slip lane around like Monticello Avenue turning onto Carlton, like those flex posts got eliminated within like weeks.

You know, so it's like, well, what does that mean?

You know, like maybe a quick build doesn't belong here.

Maybe they're, you know, like maybe the whole intersection needs to get redesigned.

I don't know, you know, but like,

There are different scenarios where it's like, what do we do in these different scenarios?

What are they telling us?

And what's the kind of a feedback mechanism to ensure that like, you know, and we've had, I've had outside conversations about this too, where it's like, what kind of data do we need to collect?

Or do we need to collect any data at all?

Because it's just common sense.

Like you shorten the crosswalk and you make it harder for vehicles to make a turn going quickly.

Like you've just made the things safer.

You've made the intersection safer.

Yes, we could collect data on that, but it just makes sense.

So then what is the process by which we turn those flex posts and paint into concrete curbing?

Well, yeah, because where this came from was because the city launched Quick Builds without a plan.

So really, they should have done this work, right?

The city department for Quick Builds, whoever that lives under, should have had a process and a strategy and a plan.

And they did it.

They just started putting shit down, which was awesome.

But also now we're like, crap, we need a plan, and we'll help you make the plan.

That's essentially what we're saying, is that we're going to be here to advise you as the experts in making this plan.

But I guess what I'm thinking is just want to make sure we're all clear.

Like engineering are going to have to figure out is this an actual, I mean Kyle knows this very well, all the projects he's got turned from

paying plastic to concrete.

Some of them are not feasible because of drainage, yada, yada, yada.

But like that's not something that feedback's going to figure out.

But then maybe public engineering can come and do a report and say why there are issues with this one turning into concrete.

To that point, that prioritization is good feedback for us internally.

Right.

It's good for everybody.

Right.

Right.

And we'll take that and then it's like, we can go out with a red pen and be like,

So FYI, we're going to learn more about this in the coming months.

But Osei's new platform that she spoke to us like six months ago about, I think is going to be helpful.

I think also we're here for elevating the blind spots that tend to come with others.

That tend to come with this, which is, and don't forget to tell the public.

Yes.

And I think like many emails could be saved, right?

If they just had a tracker, like the county has a tracker for all their projects or even a spreadsheet where it's just, you know, there's just a like status column and we can say like, you know,

denied hardening because of drainage.

Yeah, I got a peek behind OSA's platform a little bit this week and I have a training for it next week.

It like right away jumped out at me as like public works, transportation project spreadsheet leads.

This would be the first case study for this new platform.

There is a comment here that Josh has shared the current draft.

I'll just say yes it's a five-year plan.

And now is the time to be asking for what we want in that CIP budget, not the done deal.

All right, so back to our...

I think I would like to reorganize this and present it again in January to vote on.

If I'm not hearing like a whole lot of I mean, everyone has access to the document and everyone can drop their comments and quibble with anything that's here or make it better.

But I think I think the goal would be like, let's start 2026 with a clear understanding.

Let's get our subcommittee sorted.

and a clear understanding of what it is we're working on, what are VFAC's goals, when we look back over 2026, what do we want to say we did, and then let's get the work.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'll throw a comment in there that just says I think it is a good thing to point it to a subcommittee

Well, and I think the subcommittee is also, like, reporting back to BPAC and saying, what do you think, and how can you improve this draft fulfilled process that we've developed?

But my, another question, maybe this is actually a better question for the subcommittee, but is also,

Like if feedback goes to the trouble of doing all of this, and maybe this is what you were getting at, Herb, was like, let's get city council involved, is like, who's to say that public works and engineering have to do what we say they should do with flip-flops?

That was really my point.

If there's a council approved process, then it doesn't come from a small group of citizens.

And maybe it means like, I'm thinking that

Me and someone else have to say to Sam, make this happen.

I don't know.

I'm still learning.

I'm still learning.

I would just say, realistically, to answer your question, it happens in a couple different ways.

How's that?

So, BPAC can think strategically on how to do that.

You could also think about how to work with counsel on how to formalize that process.

Yeah, let me ask, I don't actually want to, I want to ask that question.

I'm going to ask the question.

I'm struggling with that type of answer as well.

So internally, on our side, NDS, we've got some good ideas.

And we struggle also with how to implement them.

So I think we are going to hopefully work well as a team, even if we don't only see eye to eye on how we can

You know, build consensus and show that the city's working well with the community, so therefore these things should happen.

Hey, this is Peter.

I'd like to just add one thing, which is as the city is developing its transportation plan, there should be a whole section about procedures.

That's one of the things that is really good about the city's park master plan.

is that it doesn't only look at like, in fact, it probably doesn't look enough at like what our actual parks need park by park.

But it does talk about like what's holding the Parks Department back.

Nice.

I like that idea.

It does not exist.

It's not written anywhere.

Other communities, like I've seen the one for Milwaukee,

they have a quick build.

And like any resident, there's a process by which you can request a quick build in your neighborhood.

So I think that's what we want this committee to figure out is like, how do we assess the locations of quick builds?

How do we kind of formally recommend those locations to city staff?

How do we ensure that the quick builds are either like working, how do we assess if they're working or not?

How do we prioritize or assess which ones should be turned into hardened infrastructure?

And then prioritize, because we need the hardened infrastructure everywhere.

And how do we decide which projects come first?

So that kind of thing.

Yeah.

And one piece of that is, you know, we heard from Reverend Caleb last month, um, getting feedback and working with them to collect feedback on the pitfalls that have come down so far, um, with the exception of, you know, some strife around the,

Oakleaf-Delmar intersection.

I've not heard a lot of like people being up in arms about quick builds.

Is that a quick build though?

It's not part of the urgent transportation funds, but it is a quick build.

Yeah.

It's an example of a quick build type project that had a lot of

I think one major change though, is that it was a quick build that also involves taking a formerly two-way street and turning it into a one-way street, which I don't know that any other quick build has done that.

Oh my gosh.

That's the list.

We could have a whole meeting about that, but, um,

I mean, to kind of run with one point that you just made and not really answer your question, like, maybe there is some kind of definition to quick build, you know, or it's like, are we changing the whole traffic pattern?

You know, is that, does that still fall under the purview of a quick build?

Right?

And I think that a quick bill has to involve like a lot of public engagement and like a long process and lots of staff time and I think maybe it's not a quick bill.

Well maybe that, so what I was thinking though is just now

Hopefully we get to a point where this is a program.

We have it defined, and we do a good job of communicating it to our citizens so they are not shocked by what this plastic thing is all about.

And that kind of goes back to what Sahib was working on, this handout of sorts.

What does he bump out?

Oh, I'm sorry.

There are two kinds of pushbacks that everyone might provide.

One is that

We don't exactly like or we love the approach that you're taking.

The other one is, that's a great idea, but this other project is much more important to us.

It could be a quick boat.

And there was a couple other pushbacks on some of the projects.

Some of it was like, I don't love

The actual execution or design, but I'm fine with it existing.

I would prefer if it was done differently.

It wasn't taken as harshly as oak leaf or green leaf.

Well, it would be remarkable if we came up with a political initiative that had 100% support.

Right, right, right.

Right.

Exactly.

And it doesn't mean we stop what we're doing.

YY shares things like day lighting can be a simple criterion that can be mechanically applied to everywhere without manually specifying locations.

I may be wrong, but lots of quick builds can be like that.

If we have X, it means

We can quick build Y.

So like, yeah, there's like character.

There goes back to Jen's matrix, which I'll say can be a thing.

And I think we all should consider doing it.

Yes.

We are a little over time on our work plan conversation.

So expect more from me over December.

And maybe if you don't mind doing a little reading over the holidays to see where I've

How I've shifted our work plan proposal before a January meeting.

That'd be awesome.

But we'll send that out.

Sending it over to Tommy to talk about FAO.

So I sent around or Guinevere's for James since the staff updates as well as the VO permit with the or the doctors mobility permit with VO that was signed just over a month ago as part of that plan and

or that permit, they are required to give us essentially three plans and a template.

Each one of those was an attachment in that email.

So after I kind of maybe present some of these things to everybody, I think, in my opinion, what would be helpful is if everyone had a month to look over these plans.

And then on January, I can collect feedback from BPAC.

and then I can make recommendations to do.

Just as a heads up, they turned in some of these plants a couple weeks ago.

I asked them to go back to the drawing board.

So what you're seeing here is a significant step up from what they had originally presented.

So Jamie.

What do you have?

Let's start.

So there's the staffing plan.

And a lot of this for folks who aren't in the day-to-day may not mean much.

But the most important thing about this staffing plan is actually going to be, for me, which is going to be part of the monthly reporting template.

So, meaning every month I'm going to be able to see how many people they plan on staffing, the times of their shifts, and then I'll be able to see the previous months, like what actually happened.

That's been very difficult from our city staff's perspective to fully get a good answer on how many technicians they actually have physically rebalancing, moving, and reporting the violations.

So, yes.

So again, this is technically a three-year permit.

There are many opportunities for us to cancel and tell them to close shop and get out of town quickly if needs be.

We really worked hard on baking in levels of accountability towards VEO or any other permit vendor in our city.

These four plans were set up so that we can really dive into these four specific things and have input from like BPAC and others to help us further hold them accountable while also having good programming system in place.

So before I move on to the other two kind of plans, which is the marketing, community engagement, and the parking operations plan,

Anything else?

The city manager or their designee will approve the plan.

And they have six months to get approval.

And if it's not approved within six months, then the permit is cancelled.

And if they weren't doing a good job in those first six months, the permit can also be cancelled.

Investing?

Like in staff?

Like how much?

That's a good question.

I'm probably not going to get the straight answer to be perfectly straight from them like they're not going to tell me like well we have these paying tax in the Columbus market and I'll

I have ways around that I'll mention here in a second, but I will just say that since June of this year, they have significantly increased staff.

Now, the problem is staff come and go for a variety of reasons.

But compared to where we were last year, it's like night and day.

There were some days last year where I don't think they had people working.

for a variety of reasons.

But there is a significant increase in overall staff operations.

And we typically meet with them on a biweekly schedule.

It's not been a good way to meet.

We meet for 15 minutes.

I don't have anything in front of me to review.

I don't have questions.

So that's why I'm forcing them to come up with a monthly template.

that they give me days before a meeting, I can review it, I can come with questions, I can assume why was this shift empty or why do you have two people or whatever.

You know, it was.

Do we have access to customer complaints or like issues flagged or anything?

Like what are the complaints?

Okay, and there are complaints and they have a couple of different reporting options, are they

And it's one of them is easier to fill out than the other and it's not quite a complaint.

No, I mean they need to provide on request anything that I request.

So if I have something I want specifically, they'll have to provide it.

There is their online 24-7 customer service portal and then there's the MyCville that people are reporting and that they promote people to report.

And they send some person out to fix those in real time?

Is that the implication?

That's why I'll get the report.

Basically, the report comes to me.

I am the owner of that complaint in my Seville.

And then I just set up an email rule that automatically forwards that complaint to VA.

So they get it as soon as I get it.

And then basically what happens within the next couple of hours,

I'll get an email from the...

General Manager, saying that that's been taken care of.

The downside to that system is I don't get a report from the actual tech who moved it.

So like, it might seem like the thing was moved six hours later, when in fact, it was moved within 45 minutes or an hour and a half or whatever, if that makes sense.

Which is why we baked into the permits, the need for them to provide, let me make sure the

Wording accurate on here, they must provide an online platform accessible by desktop that allows city staff to see the live locations of all devices.

This online resource should provide a map of locations and unique identifiers for each device, as well as an indication of how long a device has been at a location and its current battery charge status.

The third thing, battery, whatever, the most important thing for me is

I want to know how long a device has been idle.

The permit used to say they can have up to five days.

So ideally, you park it out in that hub, and it doesn't move for five days, fine.

The problem we're seeing is they park it anywhere and everywhere, and they don't know that, yeah, it might be parked fine, but in reality, it's blocking the sidewalk.

So we bumped it to three days.

So I've started combing through these plans and adding my own notes.

To some degree I don't necessarily want to say what I'm thinking.

I had some notes on parking in particular.

I think there should be, on the bikes, there is a whole long list of reminders on the bike.

Don't ride on sidewalks, ride on it.

Because it's legal.

Blocking a sidewalk.

Do not block a sidewalk.

There are people who definitely are clueless.

We've been on neighborhood walks with UVA students specifically and watching me move a VO and they're like asking me why I'm doing that.

They're nice people.

They're coming to like a neighborhood walk.

They just do not, they just, it did not strike them.

They didn't understand.

They're undergrads.

They see these things everywhere.

They didn't, they don't understand.

The biggest, the biggest issue I saw from day one is VO does not have a way to commute to, to do,

And that hasn't changed.

They aren't going to change.

You can sign up with a cell phone.

They're going to give you a couple notifications here and there.

Well, and most people would opt out of that.

Okay, so my next note, just like

make it very hard for people to not understand.

And I would actually take issue with that.

I mean, yes, I get some sidewalks are very wide.

There's plenty of space.

There are even bike rails on some sidewalks.

But I also am kind of like, well, if you just have a blanket, no parking on a sidewalk rule.

Because the rule as it's written in the permit right now is like, there's something about like 36 inches and it must be like, and I'm like, no one has come.

No, that's too complicated.

Just have a blanket roll.

I'm going to wait to make any of my comments.

Feel free to write it down.

Yeah, yeah.

Do you want in the perfect direction with your notes or would you rather it be the one I want to go for it?

Are you saying like that it wouldn't be possible to park it and like it would be a blah the same way they have for Lime scooters, some of the other scooters that you have in other cities?

that you actually, it'll just keep running up your time.

That would be ideal.

I do think, I think a $5 fine and a $10 fine are just like woefully insignificant.

Yeah, basically.

So let me just give you...

Number one, at UVA on grounds, they have required parking zones.

So you have to park in those zones.

The problem with that is the GPS is not totally accurate.

So it might say that you're in a zone when you're really not in a zone.

But a lot of students, and you can ask Peter or Patrick who comes to these meetings from UVA, will just don't care.

And they'll just keep running and their daddy or mom is paying for it.

Yes, that's important.

Oh, but, but.

Sorry.

But I mean, that's fine.

I mean, it's not fine.

Like, it's going to happen.

I'm just saying what the reality of the program is, right?

And so it's probably their parents who are, they're using their parents' account, right?

Please go ahead.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

It just took me a second, and my camera's not working, so I apologize as well on that.

I'm here to pretty much receive issues about the parking, and the parking really has me concerned how I see it written.

It gives the 36 inches, and the 36 inches

I know they're going off a standard.

They're going off the old ADAG standard under the Americans with Disabilities Act.

But the city uses Pro-Wag.

The Commonwealth of Virginia uses Pro-Wag.

Pro-Wag has been adopted by the Department of Transportation.

And I'm sorry to give a history on this, but 36 inches is not a good standard whatsoever.

It gives zero room for air.

And so as soon as somebody parks a scooter there, if it goes into the right-of-way just a little off,

You're creating an ADA issue for the city of Charlottesville and we're violating access for people with disabilities and that's a civil rights

issue and you're not allowing somebody to pass or have room to move with your parking and scooter there really can cause a lot of issues and it can cause federal lawsuits for the city.

Most places I've researched on since I've looked at this since I received the issue today go to 48 to 60 inches of clearance because it gives real world accessibility.

You want people to be able to move and especially your people that have disabilities.

Policy doesn't even put in there about curb ramps.

It doesn't address them whatsoever from what I've seen.

So I have a lot of issues with it.

Yeah.

So I said I wasn't going to

The thing that I'm leaning towards, and you guys can think this over, is no parking on any sidewalk unless it's designated.

So it could be designated physically with a sign.

like an orange hub or an actual sign or it can be designated virtually on the app.

So if it's designated virtually on the app, you'll see that and we can bake in some other things in here in terms of it.

But it would be hard to communicate anything to the user about 48 inches, 36 inches, 60 inches or whatever it might be.

Other cities definitely do all this stuff differently.

Some are more successful than others.

Some of them have an active program, some of them don't.

But after looking at everything, this to me from a communication standpoint seems to be as simple as the best.

But I'm happy to hear other thoughts.

One thing I would really hate to see if we were going to do like block, you know, like the zones where you're not allowed to park.

I really it's really shitty when you're trying to like if you're somewhere that there's just this huge area that's like historical district and you're not allowed to park anything anywhere.

And you like in D.C., for example, you can't park anywhere near the train station.

And it's really hard to figure out where you can park one of these things.

And you're trying to catch a train and then you're like,

You know, you're just trying to find like a correct zone to park.

And so things like that are terrible barriers that cost money and they're not clear before you start out on your journey.

You may not have known this before you left because there's no integration of, say, Google Maps with the parking.

Yeah, where things are blacked out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, let's do that.

I think even less so than the instructions, you're like, I need to know where I'm parking this thing when I get there.

Like, I need to know that when I get there, like, I want to do the right thing and park it correctly, but I'm also trying to get to a place where there's the parking.

It's not integrated.

Yeah.

I have a similar thought where I was like, can't, like,

Either by geolocation or because you're in their app, can video just tell you, oh, there is a safe and legal parking spot 30 feet ahead on the left?

Because it knows where you are, I mean, to a certain degree.

You see it on the app, like you see it in the map, you're like, oh, that's okay.

My nearest thing is like three blocks away.

So I got it.

But are those actual physical docs?

They're physical docs.

But if you have physical, I mean, this is where you would need a map.

You'd need the Docus mobility hub.

What does that really want to call them?

Well, it depends on what you're expecting the GPS to do, right?

Yeah.

Like I think so saying that or, or like if there are ways to identify on the map, like it's not yet, it's not maybe yet a dockless mobility hub, but it's still like a safe and legal place to park where this can be identified on the map.

Well, under the current system, isn't the grass next to the sidewalk a safe and legal place to park?

But it could identify, it could just say, like, the grass over here is safe and legal.

I don't know.

I'm just like, is there a way to use the technology here that can be helpful to help people know, like, oh, my app just told me where to park this, like, I don't have to leave it on the sidewalk.

So I mean the thing that they were pushing for this past year is this AI parking tool that fizzled out and I hadn't heard anything in a while about it until I saw in this plan this week that there's some AI tool about helmet usage now.

That's new to me.

I haven't heard that before.

But they were trying to double down on, when you park your device, you have to take a picture.

And the AI would be able to tell if that was a legal place to park your scooter or your device.

So, so I will ask BPAC, I will ask VO questions about map and integration.

Okay.

Yes, a designated legal place to park.

And I think there should be signs, right?

Like, can we just make it really hard for people to park badly?

No, because you've got under 18s running.

Josh says turn car parking spaces into scooter parking on every street.

Heck yeah.

And there was a previous comment from Josh Carp about with an update from Roy Stoltenberg that CIP funding

is binding in the first year, but the following four years are a plan that can be changed.

And I think Sam's position is that he'll support adding more money in future years if staff bring him more projects.

All right, let's ask staff to bring him more projects.

I have a question for Steph, which is very related to a conversation we had earlier about a written procedure for quick builds.

Is there a written procedure for infrastructure projects that aren't quick builds like normal infrastructure projects?

And where do I find that?

Oh, it's a very broad question and I apologize for that.

I've been coming to these NVAC meetings for, you know, a couple months now and I've been trying to get a feel for how the whole process works before I start trying to make moves, right?

How does an idea or how does something go from an idea in someone's head

whether that's a city person or a citizen to a plan that gets approved and then from a plan that gets approved to a thing that exists in the real world.

What are the players, I suspect there are many possible routes that that path can take right through different agencies, different people, different funding, money,

Power players, contractors, it's a really broad question, and I hope that I'm not asking you to lay it all out yourself, which is why I'm phrasing it.

I mean, there might be an SOP somewhere that will probably touch on some of this, but what I'm hearing is the idea is coming from the ground and bubbling up to the top.

Because there's also the reverse, right?

So I would say, and I'm like Kyle, because he has more experience in city hall and seeing different administrations and how they do things.

You know, there's a lot of new staff here.

I'm one of them since COVID.

To some degree, I think we are all learning on how to create those processes.

And so I haven't seen anything specifically written down.

And since I've been here, I've seen that process change a couple times.

And not to say it hasn't worked well, I'm just saying to some degree Ben has tried to create the written processes so that we can be a little bit more efficient.

I mean, I can add to that a little bit, which is I'll just say there isn't a written process.

There is not one.

I mean, the closest thing to a written process and

I have to preface this with, when you say idea of installing something or infrastructure or a project or something like that, the reason for the idea actually kind of matters.

It's like, where did that come from?

Is it from some tragic

Is it because of some public feedback around development and concern for traffic congestion?

So there's a lot of weight and a lot of nuance and complexity in where that comes from.

And just like you said, where that comes from, dictate the avenue that it takes.

Who interfaces with that feedback or idea or problem

city manager's office.

If it's a city manager's office, then it takes the route of coming from the city manager's office and council, and then coming to the staff and saying, we have this problem.

You guys need to come up with some ideas on how to fix this.

So that's one avenue.

And then the other avenue is kind of bubbling up from the bottom, which is what Tommy's talking about, which is like, okay, this neighborhood or these people are going to lobby for this

or hitting a bulb of meat on it.

I know it hasn't been.

They're still trying to figure it's probably kind of a nebulous thing.

But the closest thing to any kind of procedure really is, and this is not a good answer, really is like in some kind of strategic

or a master plan.

A good example of something coming from an idea to actually build using a master plan is the skate park.

because there was, they were redoing the master plan for McIntyre and the skateboarding community, they put a person at every meeting, every skateboarding meeting, and they lobbied hard for it.

Not that that's a procedure, not that that should have to be required, but they successfully got the skate

So that's just, I mean, I think that like putting, putting some lobby for something to be in a plan is probably the most official way that there is a procedure.

It depends on the level.

Not the only way to do it.

It's not like, I'm not trying to say like, yeah, just go get it in the department if you got an idea.

Like there's many other ways, but as far as.

And it depends on what we're talking about, right?

Because you just look at it like the master plan and there's a recommendation in terms of sidewalks.

Some of that was taken as a like action item.

This is your list, go and build.

And some of that happened and some of it didn't.

And then we're still using the same list 10 years later.

And we've reprioritized it to some extent and added some to it.

But our director in this department is pushing for work plans for each project that anyone does under NDS.

Kyle and I both have several that we're working on.

I'm talking about transportation.

Are you talking about between the curbs?

Are you talking about the sidewalks?

Are you talking about within City Right-of-Way?

Well, I mean that's... Maybe we can... Keep coming to BPAC.

That's something I'm running up against.

I hear a lot of acronyms and first names.

The thing that you're running into, given the system that we work within right now, which is not very organized with how, you know, the process, but basically what you need to know is who's the right person to complain to.

Yeah.

You know, and like, I mean, I'm just, I'm saying that that's the kind of shitty system we have right now.

Before we went into time, almost a year ago, I reported that

A plastic thing got put in the road, making it impossible to safely cross the road as a pedestrian.

I'll bring it up again tonight and next month and nothing is happening.

There's a slip lane now that's protected by this plastic spiked thing that separates that slip lane from the rest of traffic.

The slip lane operates all the time, so it's impossible to safely cross either High Street or Long Street.

The only way I can get across is putting my bike in traffic at a very busy intersection.

Can you cross under the bridge?

Not there, no.

Yes, again, the bike.

If I'm trying to get to Free Bridge Lane, I'm trying to cross over.

You can go two ways.

I'm coming up the River Trail.

That's right.

You stay on, you do not cross 250.

You do not ever do that.

You go on the sidewalk or you go under the bridge.

I go under the bridge all the time.

Yes, you can.

I've talked to Public Works.

They really like that flex post.

It reduces costs.

They're not really interested in changing their flex post.

They really like that anchored system because when one gets knocked out, it's an easy fix to pop a new one in and it doesn't require all this rigmarole.

I do it all the time.

I live right there.

And we need signage, like signage everywhere on all of our charities paths, because I think bikers also don't understand that they can be on those paths.

This is something that is COVID internally recently to say to you, it's just like, how do we, what's the wayfinding there?

Like you're a person who rides a bike, like you do this and

Well, Peter Krebs and I did meet with a company this week, and I've met them a couple of times, called Bike Streets, Street Bikes.

Anyway, looked them up.

It is 6.24, so I don't want to keep us on the agenda because it is almost time to wrap.

Any other final questions for Tommy, questions for Seth?

and I'm seeing that Josh is acknowledging, Josh Brown, you're okay and her intersection is terrible.

Announcements, other business.

It's number 14.

1 p.m. Be there, be square.

Mobility Alliance meeting tomorrow morning 9 a.m. on Zoom.

Officer elections, we're going to finalize the charter and the work plan.

I realize we did not, we did not finalize the charter to make that was the other thing we're supposed to do.

Um, I cannot spend 15 minutes on the VO stuff, but if anyone would like to spend 15 minutes on the VO stuff.

Oh, oh, oh, I'm sorry.

Yeah.

We have a conversation about the, uh, operating budget and the capital budget next meeting.

And we need to get the schedule of like public input sessions on the CIP budget because I think we can talk about it here.

I think we can also be directing people to go and end those sessions and also always send your public comment to city council directors.

Any other business?

Yeah, you.

Real quick, because 30 years ago, they built that bridge.

And I read through all the meeting minutes of the former director of NDS.

And they were talking about how bike and pedestrian friendly that bridge was.

And they were super excited about the decision making on the large, the wide sidewalks and the low railings.

You can see the river.

And if it was in the city, it would be illegal to ride your bike over it, but it's something to help you.

So.

That's right.

I guess technically those meet shared use path standards because it's 8 feet wide concrete, but whatever.

It's still a sidewalk.

But is it a sidewalk?

What is the definition of a sidewalk?

It's too late to add a question for staff for the record.

There is technically in the standards and design manual, by definition, that's five feet wide concrete.

Five feet wide?

Sidewalk needs to be at least five feet wide.

City code.

There are city standards.

Anything new, it needs to be five feet wide.

Right.

Well, so CPD is not actively interested in enforcing that part of the city code.

I mean, maybe on a case-by-case basis, but those are conversations that have been had with advocates, so they're not trying to go bust people, at least is what they said.

But I think the idea that you're like, oh, but I'm not allowed to ride on the sidewalk, so I'm not going to do it, and really, sometimes riding on the sidewalk is the safest option.

I just want to know the law.

I just don't think it should be illegal.

And I think there are certain...

I think bankers really need to understand that they have to yield to pedestrians.

And I think because our infrastructure is so suboptimal, sometimes you gotta ride in a sidewalk.

Sometimes.

Yeah.

But if you then say it's allowed and people just do it everywhere and we have people walking out of a store and someone is riding a bike right into the

And often times, if you're riding from the city to the county, you literally can't do it safely without getting a sidewalk.

Just real quick, because VDOT has a study up, or they may have just closed it, all these VDOT studies are typically looking at entrance corridors, so Avon, Vistree,

250, Hydraulic, 29, whatever.

That's why I think that all those entrance corridors, any connections should be a shared use path for that very reason.

We shouldn't be looking at building more sidewalks along entry corridors.

Exactly.

Oh yeah, conversation for another time.

Motion to adjourn, what's it that you wanted?

All those in favor, aye.