Community Budget Forum and FY26 City Budget Public Hearing   3/20/2025

Thank you.

And I'll turn the meeting now over to the city manager.

Hamill is going to walk you through the rest.

Sam?

We're going to revisit the outside agencies conversation that we had last week and move you forward into upcoming sessions to help you close out the budget process on April 14th.

Thank you.

Thank you.

The next speaker will be Daniela Pretzer.

So I guess we're humbly asking if there's a way that the city can find some support so that community mediation can continue to grow in this community Thank you The next speaker is Cliff Seltzer Yes, thank you

So thank you very much.

The next speaker after Cliff will be Alex.

to support the bridge line as I'm doing my best to speak for those that cannot speak.

Thank you, Cliff.

Thank you.

The next speaker after Alex will be Harley Peterson.

Thanks.

Hello.

Thank you.

And then we have Heidi and Shannon Flanagan.

Thank you.

The next speaker after the Flanagans would be Sandra

It's only going to get much bigger.

Thank you.

Sandra, what's the, Madam Koch?

Thank you.

Yes, sir.

Quite simply, what we're trying to do is train community members to solve disputes in their own community before we involve the police and the courts and other government agencies.

Good evening.

I think they're all going to take the rest of the time.

Thank you.

Thank you, Michael.

Thanks for letting me have my opportunity.

Mr. Jackson, excuse me, sir, did you say that a towing company is coming into Crescent Hall?

So I'm just throwing that out there.

Yeah, I was just trying to figure that out.

Why, of all places in the city,

Thank you.

Yes, sir.

Thanks so much.

Yes.

Thank you very much.

I'm going to now close the public hearing and I know that we have a presentation.

So that I'll turn it back over to City Manager Sanders

So I'll stop there and ask, are there any questions?

Michael, did I start with you?

PHA Priority 2, the cash assistance, I mean if they're able to figure that out, that may be used for funding somewhere else for other housing programs that are also facing challenges at the moment, but that's kind of my first pass feedback.

Okay.

What is the program?

So that's the request.

So this would help them purchase...

It will be a lease, a lease arrangement so that they could then house additional people.

Does that fall apart?

Okay.

The Dogwood lot is 100K is highlighted?

That was a recommendation from one of you.

So not all of it, but some of it?

Yes.

Okay.

I'll say a little more about that.

Other than an off-cycle request in this way, how else would they apply for additional funding to build it into the budget earlier?

So I think that's the reason why it is also here on this list.

There isn't.

This is really it.

as counsel, but they usually do their own fundraising.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They were getting more and more requests for adults, so, but I think that's what that did.

So I would say that is why the way I look at this, this is the best way for it to come forward.

Because, yeah, I would be interested in helping start that process, but it feels like with our limited 100,000 right, or a million right now, that's a quarter of it, and it feels like a big chunk of the, because we are in such unprecedented times to commit that much out of this flex fund right now instead of building it into the budget on a larger scale.

Right.

Okay, thank you.

Because we have more lists is why.

Was I the one who said yes to PHA or was I just asking questions about it?

Say that again?

I think I was just asking questions about the PHA.

The county has provided, I believe, $100,000 towards the amount needed and that is why it's $162,000 because the original ask was for $260,000

So the reason why they're separated, just to clarify, is the top half needs to happen in order for the bottom half to happen.

Because I said, tell me what you absolutely have to have.

But just to clarify that we can say we only support one or we support both.

So I gave him that horrible choice, yes.

Yeah, I support those as well.

Both of those?

Because, I mean, the staff would have other things to do without the $50,000, right?

There would just be a reduction in what's available, and he would have to continue his efforts to figure that out.

Yeah.

The goal would be basically they could replace that $50,000 from sources outside the city.

Right.

Happy to support the first one.

Sure.

Lloyd, I'm sorry.

sort of what the overall state of that continuum is and which of these things are most necessary to keep things continuous on the continuum.

This was not something that they felt like they could predict.

How many hands can you have to do it all?

So they're the ones that are supposed to say, put your finger here.

It's a support BRAC and a particular support of housing.

Definitely different.

Marshall?

I don't believe so, because I think my understanding is permanent supportive housing, which is just a program, but I'll let Ashley make sure I don't go off the rails.

Yes.

and so once they decided to award what they award from personal experience even if they did make an error there's kind of no going back by that point because they've taken all the money sent it to all of the people and you're kind of unfortunately stuck so this will just ensure we're able to provide the same level of permanent supportive housing that we have been for several years.

Thank you.

Do I understand they have been asking for $500,000 a year for two years?

Let me just be honest.

I'm looking at this.

So that's why I recorded that as an off-cycle request.

I suggested, I was the one who suggested putting a marker of $100,000 in the CIP to demonstrate good faith and that we've not given up on this project and that we'd like to see some real progress happen soon because this is something that's been deferred and delayed nobody's fault in the city Don't we also have to coordinate with the county as well and I know you're talking to Jeff

I won't bring you an ask.

Because I love, I feel like we're going around in circles about this for a number of years, no fault of ours, but whatever we can do to say, this is the project, this is the cost, and let's come up with a plan.

and so you would have ten million dollars, fifteen million dollars, fifteen million dollars, fifteen million dollars, four hundred million dollars in the fifth year and everybody knew that just because it was there didn't mean it was everywhere. It wasn't real. That's right. And fortunately I think we've gotten away from that. We have, absolutely. And I'm not sure that I really want to go back to those days, even a little bit of it. But I...

I feel like if we don't do this, we're going to be here a year from now having the very same conversation.

And I note that the council-directed funding opportunity is funded in part by $500,000 of available CIP unspent balance.

Are you suggesting paying for that from a different source?

More than half.

Something.

I'm not saying the difference between 550 and 600 isn't a problem.

To me, it doesn't make sense to let that happen.

not the riverbank restoration, but I wonder if that is something that is cut that provides a little bit more capacity to either invest in dogwood or other private needs as well.

Yeah, is that all I'm going to say?

One question, I assume that because we've got $86,000 coming in as a CDBG balance, that we have to make sure that at least $86,000 gets spent in a CDBG compliant manner.

Yep, I will do that for you.

But that both BRAC and PHA projects would qualify?

That's why I'm trying to whittle down the list.

Yeah, let's come back to it.

I see.

I'm done.

Okay.

Maybe you've got some mad money over in the Department of DPW, I don't know, but in lieu of that, in lieu of some other way of assisting, I would vote for this.

Okay.

I do support the ones highlighted, and the PHA, if you can do the whole 50, I would be supportive of 25.

Because I picked up two things from Councilor Payne, BRAC, and PHA, and Councilor Osher and BRAC in both PHA.

Keeping the $1 million in mind, I kind of want to talk about the other ones first and then think about it as a whole before I revise this slide.

It doesn't get any easier.

Nope.

Hamill is already thinking I won't be sleeping for another few more days.

We'll have a running tally on the 10th.

So therefore, we need to identify how much money per line we're talking about so that I can figure out how to come up with it.

I said same as last year for two of them.

so it and you know there's a part two to this you put numbers here and then the part two is you just heard from a group of people if they're not on this list did that cause you to rethink because I need to know the list as quickly as possible if we're going to finish this process

Brian?

So I don't think for me, Sam, that you're going to get a lot of back and forth on this one.

So I think it's possible that we can applaud them for their efforts and trust them, but also now we have stuff that we can adjust that they didn't have to play with.

What money do we have?

The million that we're...

We didn't add anything else to the VCF.

But isn't that money we can apply to this?

We could also take money out of the fire department budget too if we wanted to.

So they still did a great job, and we can send a couple more thousand dollars here and there.

Yes.

So, yeah, I think that we can kind of go down the list because, I mean, most of them came for me, but you can identify the ones that... Well, I think the green ones are highlighted because that came for both of us.

So do we have a third?

That's really what we're looking for because we do need the specifics at this point so that we can run a tab for you and come back to you with anything else.

to be another 46.

So, at least for me, it's going to be a zero on all of them.

I mean, that means I only have three people I need to hear from then.

I don't know if that provides you any clarity.

They're activities and services that are good for the community and probably have an outsize effect.

So are you limiting yourself now to the list you just read off that that's where you're wanting to put as your priority?

Could I ask one?

if that makes any sense.

what you know what we can do in the community so and you know I'm always supportive of those programs as a young lady says that that impact the youth in the community so anyway so I but I also can count to three so I'm supportive of the ones that I sent in and and

My desire is to make lists shorter, that's the desired outcome, and then we will figure out what the numbers have to be, because you will have to move those pieces around, especially by not necessarily knowing what to say in regards to, so how much for this specific group.

How much on the last slide have we already seen?

That's why I said you've already done it.

Not on this.

These are your decisions.

fund so that this conversation isn't as long because they can just fund things in a little more depth?

That's a decision that I make.

No, no.

Money was just available to bring this concept back to you.

Yeah.

We have not done it this way before.

But yeah, that is $250,000 that maybe we reallocate somewhere else.

Yeah, and we're not looking to have you do that.

Right, so that's a larger, that's a different conversation.

Because that will be considered on its own, and that's not an equal tradeoff.

Different buckets.

That is really what we're trying to do.

The shorter the list, the better.

I'll be honest and say that.

And then I think we all kind of had questions about Bridgeline, which seems to be... And I'll talk to you about Bridgeline specifically.

I'll tell you about that in just a minute.

Great.

Yes, I will support Natalie's recommendations.

Thanks.

Okay.

Can you restate what you're... I'll say.

Boys and Girls Club, Lighthouse, Live Arts, LAJC, Piedmont Casa, Loaves and Fishes, and Sarah.

What's that total?

We think we can figure out how to cover that because it was a computing error on our part.

19 and 37?

That would be their new, the new total.

Mistakes and also any review committee is not omniscient.

And we do apologize for that mistake and we'll make sure that we check them fully.

So Natalie, you ran the numbers, right?

Okay, we'll make that note.

All right, next slide.

That was just the other ones.

So the question is, is that something you want us to consider in this mix or not?

Does there, have they increased their, is there some formula or something every year that increases by a certain amount or do they just come to you or it seems like the numbers not ever change much?

Part of it is prescribed from the state, but the other part are several separate programs that council has funded and they have not requested additional funding for those programs.

Because every time we turn around, we're saying, Region 10 will do this for us, Region 10 will do that for us.

That's been my understanding of it.

So, anyway, no changes.

I'm not even sure what that dealt is between what they got last year and this year but could find it but we'll throw that out that I was reached out to about that.

Is that a request to consider?

I think it would be worth considering.

So I'm just trying to satisfy the interest, the curiosity of is it being prioritized.

Okay.

So if anyone is interested, I'll take a hand.

An event, you say?

funding most of what you just said you wanted to fund, so sadly that is where we are.

As I total it, we're less than $600,000, so that's 60% of a million.

No, you can't be if we go, because the number that Councilor Oschlin gave did not include the two bigger ones.

The Boys and Girls Club and the Lighthouse, yeah.

That's yours.

Yes.

So I'm the one who suggested the failing adjustment just based on what we all agreed and talked about last season and then I saw in the arts and culture slide that you had given us a lot of those were not fully funded by like a smidge and so this redistribution would be able to fill those up to add to the requested amount

So you were recommending that the events be funded at a higher amount.

But if everyone would have to agree to adjust that.

So I think we'll just take that note and see what we can figure out for you.

Does anyone have any Freeland feelings?

I mean, I support the $4,200 going to Freeland.

Going to them.

Keeping it as is.

Lohanenen

I guess $4,200 isn't a lot of money, but I think I would probably more agree with Michael.

So there's three questions.

We want them to do things for us on bigger things, so $4,200, I guess if I had to vote, I would say keep it in.

I'm certainly not going to feel as a matter of principle that it shouldn't be done.

and I think when they move into the new space it's really going to be nice so I'm like everyone I can count to three and so but $4,200 is not going to make a big difference on either end I'm supportive of it and if we don't get another one then I'm with you I don't know if the third vote would be but okay

I think that's it for me.

Top three being If the placeholder can be spent elsewhere and actually get spent and do things, I think we should do that and not allocate it as a placeholder Wait, I'm sorry Yeah, using this as a placeholder when it could be spent I'm supporting these three Okay, got it So BRAC, PHA 1 and 2 Yes, please Got it, thank you

Can you say that again?

I'm not tracking those last few statements.

The annual debt service, which is the third column over from the right, if you go from 9 to 30 million, that's basically tripling in this time frame.

Where's 9?

Thank you.

I was looking at 2035.

So with that, I'll be quiet, and we're looking for some input from you on how you'd like to use your time next week with the CIP.

What is the consequences of this?

Okay.

So you need to start coming up with more money to shift over to that or not?

Debt is a fixed cost for 20 years essentially, so it's not meant to be doom and gloom, it's just a realization So when you said you want some guidance for tomorrow, what do you mean?

If there are projects that you want more information on, if there are areas that you have more interest in discussing further Things that are in the CIP as you know them to be, if you'd like to hear more about them, things that we added, things that we shared with you that we added to the CIP, if you'd like to know more about them, we would have the full team here to be able to go over those things Right, I mean, I can tell you, I don't have any particular preference of projects, I just

I haven't really had time to focus on it.

We'll make some decisions and highlight some things for you, but we were just interested in hearing if there were any things that you were particularly interested in.

Lloyd, do you have any?

But having this nice plan that gives us goals to shoot at, we ought to at least think about how serious we are about shooting at those goals.

Okay, that's on the list.

Feels like the school CIP is pretty tight right now and clean and well agreed to as far as these things go.

Are you interested in hearing some of the projects?

annual drawdown that they can use for projects.

We'll definitely cover those.

I know our focus has really been on getting the middle school done and getting Walker, but there are these larger conversations about essentially demographics really that I think we need to start talking about

As we've talked about briefly, we may end up having a summer retreat, and that is one of the subjects, as well as I've talked to the superintendent about you all having a joint meeting, not just budget focus, but also planning forecasting.

Natalie, did you have anything particular with the CFP you want them to do?

Thank you.

Michael, any particular projects or anything you want them to focus on?

So I'm particularly, sorry, go ahead.

But we can look at that for sure.

Is it about the cash or is it about another project?

Yeah, I think, I mean, obviously, you know, it could be either, but my thought is, you know, in the context of the conversation tonight, it seems like the, I see the most immediate needs would be, like, cash in the general fund to fund the kind of things we saw tonight.

So that's part of what we also know, and that's why I can speak to you about we might be able to figure some things out.

get rid of them or add in some substantial new project.

So for affordable housing being this big tranche of money that you have in your CIP, what are some of the highlighted projects that we can bring to your attention just for the sake of the public being aware of what those are?

like with the parks are at master plan what is the scale of that investment and just so we have that on the table and I know it's not CIP but similarly like just what is the scale of the cost of different scenarios for expanding our transit system and kind of just get it out in the open you know how much does it cost what would it take and what are we willing to do in terms of the timeline for getting there but I know that's not CIP it's a little both

Where is that listed?

We were able to identify that we could make it fit into there as an eligible activity, so it's not in the CIP.

It's talked about in the pros, but I couldn't find a line.

It's going to come out of the stormwater fans.

Thank you.

So, transit.

You want me to give you a response to that?

In a couple weeks, I guess, two of us will be going to the Nehemiah Impact Conference.

You want me to give you the talking points?

Whatever you're prepared to say tonight, and if there's anything that we – are there any decision points that we have where we could –

It's not until we get the buses and then the drivers that it changes the system.

opening, like if I look at the city's job listing, are there any positions for transit drivers?

but at this moment we had I think we were right at this time last year adding money to add drivers and that was not a part of the budget plan and it took us almost this long to fill those spots so again I appreciate the request but we're not always able to deliver on just identifying the funds

So the fare-free, the last year that we were collecting fares, it was equating to about $162,000.

And then collective bargaining for $26,000 is $1.3 million.

We'd have to get that from Mr. Williams.

And last year was atop you adding the money to add six new drivers.

Last year your total new dollars to CAT was a million eight.

It did.

And then what's the number of vacancies right now?

But there's turnover.

And so it would be 80 drivers that just restore service to the pre-pandemic level.

The number is in the 70s for getting back to pre-pandemic, but it goes beyond that for improvements to the network overall.

does it cost and maybe we it becomes very clear the only way to get there for some of these things is the regional transit authority getting new taxing power but I think that would be very important for the community to see us to see and then that form a basis of if that's what we need let's create our plan to lobby the General Assembly to get that done because I just feel like we're stuck in a point where we haven't confronted that reality.

That kind of information would be very helpful.

I think you just have a couple more slides.

Okay.

Any other things you want to talk about, Sam?

All in favor, please say yes.

Aye.

All in favor, please stand up.