City Council Meeting   3/4/2025

1. Call to Order/Roll Call

• • 00:02:27
    Um,
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 00:02:56
    called the Charlottesville City Council March 4, 2025 meeting to order.
  • 00:03:03
    Ms.
  • 00:03:03
    Thomas, will you please call the roll?
• • SPEAKER_28
  • 00:03:06
    Councilor Oschrin.
  • 00:03:07
    Present.
  • 00:03:08
    Councilor Payne.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 00:03:09
    Here.
• • SPEAKER_28
  • 00:03:10
    Vice Mayor Pinkston.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 00:03:11
    Here.
• • SPEAKER_28
  • 00:03:12
    Councilor Snook.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 00:03:13
    Here.
• • SPEAKER_28
  • 00:03:13
    Mayor Wade.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 00:03:14
    Here.

2. Agenda Approval

• • Juandiego Wade
  • 00:03:16
    Is there a motion to approve the consent or amend the agenda?
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 00:03:23
    I move for approval of the agenda.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 00:03:30
    Okay, this meeting will be divided into three sections.
  • 00:03:34
    The first is a work session where we hear discussion and presentations that do not require a council vote and followed by a closed session.
  • 00:03:45
    And then we will come back about 6.30 for a regular business meeting.

3. Solid Waste Program Presentation

• • Juandiego Wade
  • 00:03:49
    And the first presentation this evening is on the solid waste program, Mr. Hicks.
• • SPEAKER_20
  • 00:03:59
    Good evening, Mayor and Councilmembers.
  • 00:04:00
    I'm Stephen Hicks, Public Works Director.
  • 00:04:03
    Today, we're going to be giving you all a review of a request that was from last year, exactly this time last year, where Council would like for us to look at exploring, filling the gap of our expenditures of our current hallways program, which is $2.7 million, and the revenue we collect, which is $1.1 million.
  • 00:04:24
    The last time there was a discussion on this or any changes was in 2007.
  • 00:04:29
    So I do think at least just to have a dialogue of where we are on our rates is helpful.
  • 00:04:35
    I'm going to turn it over, though, to Seth Cunningham.
  • 00:04:38
    He's with New Gen.
  • 00:04:40
    He's the consultant group that we hired to do this rate study.
  • 00:04:43
    And after the presentation is done, or actually during the presentation, any questions, definitely we'll try our best to answer it.
  • 00:04:51
    So at this point, I'll turn it over to Seth.
  • 00:04:57
    Oh, in addition, council members, I do, we do have staff here that manage this holidays program too, so should there be any detailed questions or any additional questions regarding our trash collection process by all means.
• • SPEAKER_04
  • 00:05:09
    Thank you.
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:05:14
    Hey, good evening.
  • 00:05:15
    You have Seth Cunningham with New Gen.
  • 00:05:17
    I appreciate you all taking the time to listen to the presentation we put together.
  • 00:05:22
    The
  • 00:05:27
    We looked at the overall solid waste program, cost of service, and fee study, and a layout.
  • 00:05:34
    Actually, how do I advance the?
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 00:05:37
    Is the clicker, which side is the clicker on?
  • 00:05:39
    Look below you.
• • Sam Sanders
  • 00:05:40
    Is it below you there?
  • 00:05:42
    Is there anything over there?
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:05:47
    Oh, it's up here in front of us.
  • 00:05:48
    Is that what that is?
  • 00:05:51
    No, no, that one is there in front of us.
  • 00:05:53
    There you go.
  • 00:05:53
    All right.
  • 00:05:57
    We'll cover a few key things.
  • 00:06:14
    Look at a recommended rate structure change that we had developed, working with city staff, some benchmarking data that we collected as part of this.
  • 00:06:25
    Look at some example I'm referring to as pay-as-you-throw rates, which I'll get into, and then follow a summary and potential implementation steps.
  • 00:06:37
    So in terms of the key policy decisions,
  • 00:06:42
    Yeah, I think the first one is, you know, related to just overall, you know, how much of the cost of providing service do you want to fund through rates?
  • 00:06:52
    And by rates, like right now, those rates would be through stickers and decals, versus through, you know, supplementing with the general fund.
  • 00:07:00
    Right now, about the revenue is about 40 to 45% of the cost.
  • 00:07:06
    And that's just of the core services, which gets into the next policy decision.
  • 00:07:12
    is what, you know, which cost, if you want to recover your full cost, what cost do you want to recover?
  • 00:07:18
    I think historically you focused on what are core services.
  • 00:07:22
    So that's the collection of both recyclables and refuse as well as disposal and processing.
  • 00:07:29
    There's also additional services that you all provide to residents such as leaf collection, large item collection, there's compost drop off programs and other programs that are all solid waste related.
  • 00:07:41
    and so that's what I'm today calling additional services.
  • 00:07:46
    And then finally, do you continue with the existing sticker and decal program, whether it's looking at changes to those fees for those stickers and decals or do you consider an alternate rate structure?
  • 00:08:04
    So in terms of the current program,
  • 00:08:08
    You know, again, right now revenue is only from the purchase of stickers and decals.
  • 00:08:13
    There is also a small amount of revenue for the large item collection.
  • 00:08:18
    And then the revenues have been relatively stable over the last several years.
  • 00:08:22
    It kind of been in that $1.1 to $1.2 million range.
  • 00:08:26
    But the expenses have increased significantly over the years.
  • 00:08:30
    And currently just those core services, it's about $2.7 million per year.
  • 00:08:33
    And then
  • 00:08:39
    Those additional services like the leave collection, the large item collection, those other items are about another $1.1 million.
  • 00:08:46
    Currently, the revenue, there's approximately 15,300 customers.
  • 00:08:52
    There is some auditing going on, so the number could change a little bit, but that's the best estimate at this time.
  • 00:08:59
    And when you look at that revenue, if you take that revenue, divide it by 15,300 and divide it by 12,
  • 00:09:06
    It gets to about $6.19 per month.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 00:09:08
    So is it the case that essentially between core services and additional services, we're spending about $3.8 per year?
  • 00:09:22
    That's correct.
  • 00:09:22
    It's close to $4 million.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 00:09:25
    And the 1.1 to 1.2 is all revenues?
  • 00:09:26
    All revenues.
  • 00:09:26
    Minus about $70,000 for large item collections.
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:09:29
    So we're in that ballpark.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 00:09:37
    basically a quarter.
  • 00:09:37
    Is that right?
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:09:41
    Yeah, close to it.
  • 00:09:42
    Yeah.
  • 00:09:45
    So yeah, that that 1.1 and change million dollars divided by 15,300 divided by 12 gets you about $16 and 19 cents on average per month.
  • 00:09:57
    And compared to just those core services that 2.7 million, if you did the same math divided by 15,300 divided by 12, you get about $15.
  • 00:10:12
    So this is just a sample of some of the sticker and decal cost.
  • 00:10:15
    There are some additional ones.
  • 00:10:17
    And I know the small business 64 gallon, that one's actually been discontinued.
  • 00:10:22
    It's still in the ordinance, but I was made aware that one's no longer available.
  • 00:10:27
    And Steve mentioned that it's been at least since 2007, since these have changed.
  • 00:10:33
    I think some of them have been in place since 2004, according to the Treasurer's Office, and then some were added in 2007.
  • 00:10:40
    So it's been quite some time since these have been changed.
  • 00:10:43
    But a small sticker, for example, is $1.05.
  • 00:10:46
    And I have a column here that says monthly equivalent.
  • 00:10:51
    And part of that is to help benchmark against other communities that have a monthly fee and try to standardize on the $32.64 and $96 as a basis of comparison.
  • 00:11:02
    So if you had a dollar, five sticker, the smallest sticker, if you did two and a half bags per week that gets you to 32 gallons, that'd be the equivalent of about $11.38 per month.
  • 00:11:14
    It did the same thing with the larger sticker prices.
  • 00:11:16
    So the equivalent of 64 gallons worth of stickers would be $18.20 per month and then $27.30 for 96 gallons with the stickers.
  • 00:11:26
    If you were to purchase a decal for the year at the beginning of the year, those rates are a little bit less.
  • 00:11:31
    So highlighted there, the 64 gallon decal.
  • 00:11:36
    So $189 if you buy that in the first quarter of the year.
  • 00:11:39
    And that would equate to $15.75 per month.
  • 00:11:42
    All the resident is required to pay that upfront for the year.
  • 00:11:47
    And the reason we highlighted that one is we do have some benchmarking information where the data was available.
  • 00:11:52
    We tried to standardize on that 64 gallon rate is the basis of comparison.
  • 00:12:02
    So what this shows is if your revenue continued to be relatively flat, so a little over $1.1 million.
  • 00:12:11
    your costs are going to go up.
  • 00:12:14
    And a large part of that is because a large part of your costs are contracts with a private operator and they escalate those.
  • 00:12:22
    And so if your revenues remain relatively flat, if you've made no changes and your costs continue to go up, over the next 10 years that would equate to roughly another $22 million
  • 00:12:35
    Impact to the General Fund.
  • 00:12:37
    And that's for core services.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 00:12:39
    That's already interrupt.
  • 00:12:40
    You said costs escalate.
  • 00:12:43
    How often do we renew our contract with the vendor?
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:12:49
    I know the collection for the recyclables and the disposal and processing were new contracts in the fall.
  • 00:12:57
    I don't have handy the escalation that I don't know.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 00:13:02
    But this use is kind of tied into the contract that's going to go up over three or four percent of years.
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:13:07
    Yeah, a lot of them have a CPI adjustment annually for those contracts.
  • 00:13:12
    And then the the refuse collection is an older contract and is set to expire in November of 26.
  • 00:13:19
    Okay.
  • 00:13:27
    and so here again this is focused on core services that if you are you know running a deficit each year again assuming that you change nothing else that would just show the impact over that time frame.
  • 00:13:42
    So in considering you know what some alternatives you know one alternative is certainly to keep the exact same structs you have and an increase cost if you did an across-the-board increase it would take
  • 00:13:56
    approximately 150% increase in the sticker and decals to get that $1.1 million number to get closer to $2.7 million.
  • 00:14:05
    And that's approximate, but this gives you a sense of scale.
  • 00:14:11
    And so we're also looking at some alternative rate structures.
  • 00:14:15
    If I can get this to advance.
  • 00:14:26
    was the manager.
  • 00:14:27
    Oh, there we go.
  • 00:14:28
    Hopefully it doesn't go five forward now.
  • 00:14:33
    And so some of the criteria we looked at, is it equitable, meaning is there a mechanism so that the more someone needs the service, the higher the rate is for that service?
  • 00:14:43
    Does it encourage recycling?
  • 00:14:45
    Is it affordable compared to other communities in the area?
  • 00:14:48
    That's where our benchmarking comes into play.
  • 00:14:51
    Is it consistent with what I consider industry best practices?
  • 00:14:56
    You know, in terms of quick aside, in terms of my background, I do my focus is solid waste, and particularly on the financial side.
  • 00:15:03
    And so I've worked with communities across the United States on similar matters.
  • 00:15:06
    So, so I see a lot of the, you know, what's happening with other communities and within the industry.
  • 00:15:12
    Another one is, you know, continuing to allow subsidies for those who need have the need and qualify and is the financial aid sustainable for the city.
  • 00:15:26
    And so based on, I'm not sure where I should be pointing this, for it to work.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 00:15:32
    You can also just say next slide.
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:15:34
    Okay, so if somebody, next slide.
  • 00:15:35
    If someone's going to.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 00:15:36
    Oh, I'll just ram you in the back.
  • 00:15:37
    I might be able to help out.
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:15:37
    Okay.
  • 00:15:40
    Appreciate it.
  • 00:15:41
    It is a restrictive recommendation is to look at transitioning toward a cart-based pay as you throw.
  • 00:15:49
    And pay as you throw is just a common industry term, meaning that the more you need, the more you pay for that service.
  • 00:15:57
    And so what you have now, I would consider also a pay as you throw system.
  • 00:16:01
    It's just a different form of that in terms of having the bags and decals.
  • 00:16:06
    Someone needs more, they can buy a bigger decal or buy more stickers.
  • 00:16:10
    So this is specifically a cart based pay as you throw system.
  • 00:16:15
    and most cities that have this implement two to three carp sizes.
  • 00:16:21
    And so what we had recommended was looking at a three-carp system, potentially a 32, 64, 96, and then other services that exist today in terms of recycling large-item collection, lead collection would continue as is.
  • 00:16:37
    And we feel that this right structure and the associated operational changes
  • 00:16:42
    would meet all the criteria that we discussed in the prior slide.
  • 00:16:47
    And these carts are raised somewhere to the recycling cart that's in the field today, as well as the, you know, some residents that purchased their own carts, similar to those style of carts.
  • 00:16:57
    So it's something that's kind of already out there in the field today, just used for solid waste in a consistent manner.
  • 00:17:06
    I'll try this one more time, but open it up.
  • 00:17:12
    So going back to cost of service, earlier I mentioned $15, that's really those four top bars there in this graph, it's a refuse collection, disposal of that, recycling collection and recycling processing.
  • 00:17:26
    We look at just those four services, it's about $15 per household per month.
  • 00:17:33
    And then all the additional services there, leaf collection, street sweeping, use of the McIntow recycling,
  • 00:17:40
    City Collection, which is some city buildings, compost drop-off, some administration of the system, all these other items all add up to about six dollars per month, so combined roughly twenty-one dollars per month.
  • 00:18:03
    So this includes benchmarking information from a number of communities
  • 00:18:09
    and Virginia.
  • 00:18:10
    And right now, if you take that 64-gallon cart for the year, it equates to roughly $15.75 and compared that to what other communities are paying for a similar cart size.
  • 00:18:24
    Now, the note here added was, a lot of times those monthly weights do include
  • 00:18:28
    other related services.
  • 00:18:30
    So somewhere to Charlottesville, other services could be things like the leaf collection, large item collection, drop off programs, other programs within the city that are related to solid waste recycling.
  • 00:18:45
    It didn't note that for Roanoke, they state that their cost is roughly half of what their rate is roughly half of what their cost is.
  • 00:19:00
    So I'll just note the average of all those is $25.05 and I will come back to that number in a minute.
  • 00:19:13
    So we looked at a pay-as-you-throw rate example.
  • 00:19:20
    We're looking at the distribution of carts.
  • 00:19:23
    So if you had 30% of the residents with
  • 00:19:27
    to elect a 32-gallon card, 55% of a 64-gallon card, and 15% a 96-gallon card.
  • 00:19:35
    And then looked at a monthly rate.
  • 00:19:39
    Kept a $6 distribution between the three.
  • 00:19:42
    And so for the 64-gallon, it's very close to what a 64-gallon card cost.
  • 00:19:47
    If it was done on a monthly basis, you would get a $16 bill per month versus needing to pay $189 upfront.
  • 00:19:56
    The 32-gallon at $10 and the 96-gallon at $22.
  • 00:20:01
    If all residents paid a monthly fee in one of those three amounts, based on that distribution, it generated a little over $2.7 million per year, so roughly equal to the cost of those core services.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 00:20:16
    For the assumed distribution, where did that assumption come from?
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:20:19
    So I started with the sales of current decals.
  • 00:20:24
    I think that is skewed a little bit toward the smaller end because people have the option of getting a 32 gallon decal and then adding a sticker as needed.
  • 00:20:35
    And so I based that on what I've seen from other communities as well.
  • 00:20:39
    I think generally that 32 gallon percentage of 30% is probably higher than what I typically see.
  • 00:20:45
    I think the 64 gallon is commonly
  • 00:20:48
    the one that people gravitate to and then you get smaller numbers on the larger and smaller.
  • 00:20:53
    It was based on a combination of looking at data that you have but also looking at other communities and the distributions there.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 00:21:02
    Since we have the option of doing a decal or stickers, how does the people who purchase stickers factor into that assumption?
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:21:14
    I'm sorry, I'm not clear on your question.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 00:21:17
    So we've got like 15,000 households or whatever, and a certain number of them get the decals.
  • 00:21:23
    And that is a standard thing that's easy to look at.
  • 00:21:26
    But everybody else does stickers.
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:21:29
    Got you.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 00:21:30
    And how is that incorporated into these?
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:21:31
    It's difficult to say exactly, because those aren't tracked for households.
  • 00:21:35
    So it's hard to know how many households by how many stickers.
  • 00:21:40
    So unfortunately, I don't have an exact answer for that.
  • 00:21:44
    And so again, you know, I think part of the next steps in looking at implementation is doing some outreach and getting feedback from the community, understanding what the needs are.
  • 00:21:56
    Because if you were to go out and move forward with a program like this, everyone would need to elect a cart size.
  • 00:22:04
    And that would be part of an implementation process.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 00:22:11
    While we're here, could I ask one other thing?
  • 00:22:14
    In our various housing studies we've had done, we've been told that there are roughly 20,000 households in Charlottesville.
  • 00:22:23
    That would suggest that about a quarter of the people are not customers.
  • 00:22:29
    Do you know if that number included multifamily?
  • 00:22:33
    That's total, I mean, if there's a, I think what it means is if you've got a ten unit apartment complex, it's ten units, ten households.
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:22:41
    So the 15,000 is what we consider largely single family, although it would include units that had, I think, four or less, I believe.
  • 00:22:52
    Yeah.
  • 00:22:53
    So it would not include apartment complexes that have more than four units.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 00:22:58
    Or like folks that are serviced by a dumpster.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 00:23:01
    Correct, yeah.
  • 00:23:05
    What I've been sort of grappling with in all of this is just thinking about my own personal experience.
  • 00:23:11
    We would not fill up a 64 gallon container in a month.
  • 00:23:16
    Not every week, not even in a month.
  • 00:23:22
    That's just me and my wife.
  • 00:23:23
    When we had three kids with us, we would never have filled up a 64 gallon container.
  • 00:23:29
    In fact, the 32 gallon canister that we've got right now has been our garbage can for about 30 years.
  • 00:23:40
    And I've already heard from a number of people who have said, I'm living on a fixed income.
  • 00:23:47
    My husband and I are the only ones here.
  • 00:23:50
    We don't generate
  • 00:23:51
    and anywhere near as much garbage as you think we are and you're effectively going to be quadrupling our garbage costs.
  • 00:23:59
    I'm wondering is there any way to, I saw a response from Mr. Freeze maybe that indicated that well you don't really want to have a smaller cart because it doesn't work very well with the equipment or something like that.
  • 00:24:17
    But I just,
  • 00:24:19
    I'm looking at this and thinking there's got to be a way that the folks who, like us, who just don't generate that much garbage can not have to have our cost quadrupled.
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:24:34
    Yeah, I mean one thing, and I'll try to address that and let me know.
  • 00:24:42
    if there's any further questions.
  • 00:24:44
    But one thing, I mean, you're comparing the rates here to the current sticker and decal prices, which if the goal is to recover the cost, then those costs would also, those prices for those stickers and decals would also have to significantly increase.
  • 00:25:03
    And so are you comparing a cart rate aimed at full recovery versus a
  • 00:25:10
    at a sticker price that does not provide full recovery cost for the city, or are you comparing it to what the city would have to increase those rates to in order to start to recover the cost.
  • 00:25:21
    So $1.05 sticker, if you were to increase that by 150%, isn't $1.05 anymore.
  • 00:25:27
    And so it depends on what your basis of comparison is there.
  • 00:25:31
    I mean, you could put less expensive rates here.
  • 00:25:35
    Now, obviously, that would reduce the revenue.
  • 00:25:39
    and so I think there's also an apples to apples comparison component to that.
  • 00:25:45
    But in terms of the physical cart size, I mean, I have seen communities not that many that have smaller than a 32 gallon.
  • 00:25:54
    I think there are a number of considerations there.
  • 00:25:57
    It's certainly a possibility, but there are operational considerations.
  • 00:26:03
    I think the thing about the equipment piece of it is sometimes the range of sizes is difficult for the trucks.
  • 00:26:09
    So having it set well to collect a 24 sometimes can crush the 26 gallon card or having it set well for a 96 gallon, the 24
  • 00:26:20
    gets dropped into the truck because the arm is picking it up, can't grasp it very well.
  • 00:26:25
    There's an inventory consideration in terms of just having more cart sizes that you've got to stock and repair parts and things like that.
  • 00:26:34
    And being a little bit smaller, they may be a little more susceptible just to getting blown over by the wind and, you know, other, you know, getting tipped over, things like that.
  • 00:26:43
    So it's certainly a possibility, but there are things in considerations there.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 00:26:47
    Do you have a sense of how much of the cost of collecting the garbage is what I would term a marginal cost as opposed to an average cost?
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:26:58
    So the cost of collecting a 32 versus a 96 is identical, partially.
  • 00:27:03
    The difference is the disposal side.
  • 00:27:05
    Right.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 00:27:06
    But it seemed to me just
  • 00:27:10
    and just sort of thinking about it for about two seconds, which may be dangerous, that you've got a huge sunk cost in terms of labor and equipment and everything else.
  • 00:27:22
    And I would think that the cost per gallon of garbage is relatively low compared to that sunk cost.
  • 00:27:36
    So part of the issue is, to what extent are we going to be relying on everybody else who isn't producing much garbage to be sort of subsidizing the folks who are producing the garbage?
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:27:53
    Correct.
  • 00:27:53
    I think that's the reason for, and I'll go back and forth between these two slides.
  • 00:27:57
    So this slide showed just the collection piece of it on average $7.70 per household.
  • 00:28:02
    So not even factoring in how much is disposed from that household.
  • 00:28:05
    Just the going by and going by that household.
  • 00:28:12
    and so and that's what we're all at the sunk cost of having the equipment and the people and all those things out there.
  • 00:28:18
    And so it's one in the city is paying that regardless of someone sets out.
  • 00:28:22
    And so if they don't buy a sticker that week, there's no revenue generated, but there's still a cost associated with driving by and doing, you know, true that access.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 00:28:32
    Do you just have a couple more slides, I guess?
  • 00:28:36
    Yes, because I had some questions, too, but I wanted to delay.
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:28:39
    Okay.
  • 00:28:41
    The so going back to this example structure of 10, 16, and 22 in this scenario, really the 22 gallon for 96 to some degree subsidizes the $10 for the 32 because the really the differential cost between those three for disposal is smaller than $6.
  • 00:29:00
    and I think that's part of trying to encourage recycling by essentially having the larger container-sized customer paying a little bit more of the share than the smaller container-sized customer.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 00:29:13
    In terms of the average cost per gallon of garbage, the folks who are doing the smaller units
  • 00:29:28
    32 gallons are paying more per unit of garbage that is being disposed of than are the folks who are disposing of more.
  • 00:29:39
    Are they not?
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:29:41
    Not necessarily.
  • 00:29:42
    I think what they'd be paying per collection is the same and the cost for disposal, you know, that part of it's the variable part.
  • 00:29:54
    I know Mr. Pinkston had some questions as well.
  • 00:29:57
    I think I just have a couple more slides and then if there's time allowing, could address that.
  • 00:30:04
    Okay.
  • 00:30:06
    The next slide follows the same structure, but just looks at recovering if you wanted to look at, not necessarily immediately, but over time recover those additional services.
  • 00:30:17
    And so instead of 10, 16, 22, it shifts that roughly $6, which is the cost per month of those additional services to 16, 22, and 28.
  • 00:30:28
    again, these are examples, you know, these could be refined during implementation.
  • 00:30:34
    This kind of gives you a sense of what something like that would look like and fully degenerate enough revenue to recover all of those costs.
  • 00:30:40
    And so the 20 to 64 gallon 20 to the weighted average number of 21 is still considerably less than the average of $25 from the benchmarking.
  • 00:30:57
    So in summary, the current revenue from stickers and decals is not sufficient to cover the core costs that are largely contractual.
  • 00:31:07
    There are additional solid waste and recycling-related costs that are currently funded through the general fund.
  • 00:31:14
    The sticker and decal program is kind of a manual or semi-automated collection service versus say, for example, your recycling collection is largely fully automated.
  • 00:31:25
    So the cart-based page you throw would shift to a largely fully automated system.
  • 00:31:31
    And then, you know, I think there's, you know, worked with many communities across the country and kind of the trend is toward this cart-based system with automated collections.
  • 00:31:42
    So kind of shifts Charlottesville to be in line with what other communities are doing today.
  • 00:31:52
    So an example implementation, where we are, you know, this isn't something you flip a switch and it happens overnight.
  • 00:31:58
    There is a process for implementation.
  • 00:32:02
    And so what we recommend is initially just an increase to the current stickers and decals.
  • 00:32:09
    We use, you know, consider something along the lines of a 25% increase, which does sound like a lot, but given the fact that if you look at, hasn't been a change to that since 2004, yet costs have considered, have continually increased.
  • 00:32:25
    So that doesn't make up the difference where you are today.
  • 00:32:28
    It just, you know, makes up some of that deficit a little bit.
  • 00:32:34
    And then use the next fiscal year to plan the implementation of a car-based service.
  • 00:32:37
    because there's a lot of considerations.
  • 00:32:39
    There's the billing component.
  • 00:32:41
    You've got to look at the next collection.
  • 00:32:43
    Precurement of the next collection contract was good.
  • 00:32:45
    Next fire, November 26.
  • 00:32:48
    There's an education component.
  • 00:32:50
    There's a purchase of carts, whether that's the city doing that or the potential contractor.
  • 00:32:54
    So there's a number of things to consider through an implementation and you don't want to rush through that.
  • 00:33:00
    And then set
  • 00:33:01
    the initial 27 rates, fiscal 27 rates to recover, just the collection disposal and processing.
  • 00:33:07
    I was considering the core services and then potentially looking at phasing in additional rates over time to incorporate some of those additional services that are being offered.
  • 00:33:20
    A couple other considerations is looking at the on the ordinance, having the city be the exclusive provider for the single family and up to four units, residential customers.
  • 00:33:34
    And then you could also consider whether or not the city would provide service once the existing collection contracts expire.
  • 00:33:41
    So again, just additional considerations.
  • 00:33:46
    I believe that is
  • 00:33:49
    the end of my slides, Mr. Pinkston, did you have questions?
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 00:33:55
    Could you go back, please?
  • 00:33:58
    So the bottom there, does that mean we would have our own trash trucks, Mr. Hicks?
  • 00:34:04
    Yes.
• • SPEAKER_20
  • 00:34:05
    Oh, that sounds exciting.
  • 00:34:15
    More localities are reconsidering that just to be able to control the cost.
  • 00:34:19
    a little bit better just because the industry there are a few that are literally just monopolizing the industry and then also it provides additional additional kind of service they could provide for emergency events and stuff but that would be something we'd have to carefully study and Mr. Sanders has expressed why do we want the headaches in different ways so it would be something that we would have to carefully look at but some are moving towards that direction.
• • Michael Payne
  • 00:34:48
    That was my question is, within our service region, how many providers even are there?
  • 00:34:53
    Because my understanding, it's pretty close to a monopoly, which would obviously give them the ability to kind of set costs wherever they would like.
• • SPEAKER_20
  • 00:35:04
    We would have to get back with you if you want that number.
  • 00:35:07
    But in general, most of them are relying on the solid waste service companies to provide that service.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 00:35:14
    And we have a distinct
  • 00:35:17
    one contractor that does trash and one that does recycle.
• • SPEAKER_13
  • 00:35:20
    Correct.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 00:35:21
    And it sounds like the recycle works better because people just load all their stuff up in the big bin and there's no sort of, are the costs for that picked up in the rates for everything else?
  • 00:35:34
    Is that what happens?
• • SPEAKER_20
  • 00:35:37
    I don't know how our contract is spelled out on that one.
• • SPEAKER_10
  • 00:35:42
    Yes, so currently there's, if you are a city trash customer, you qualify for recycling service.
  • 00:35:48
    I see.
  • 00:35:48
    Free.
  • 00:35:50
    But with this, it would be absorbed with whatever rate increase we would discuss.
  • 00:35:55
    Okay.
  • 00:35:55
    And currently there are two separate contracts.
  • 00:35:58
    However, the same provider, one, both of them.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 00:36:01
    Oh, is that right?
• • SPEAKER_10
  • 00:36:02
    That is correct, yeah.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 00:36:03
    How about that?
  • 00:36:06
    Yeah, I guess my question would be to the rest of council is, is there a reason why we would not want it to be the case that this is fully self-funding?
  • 00:36:20
    I know that Lloyd, you have mentioned in times before that you thought that it was part of the core duties of the city to
  • 00:36:27
    as opposed to the county where I guess they just chuck it wherever to pick up trash but right now we're subsidizing all of this by about three million dollars a year right if you include the
  • 00:36:40
    if you include these extra, what you call, non-core pieces.
  • 00:36:44
    I just wonder why we wouldn't, why this wouldn't just be something that we would expect people to pay for.
  • 00:36:51
    And you spoke about your family, my wife is an absolute hound about this.
  • 00:36:56
    I mean, it's amazing how little trash we put out.
  • 00:37:02
    So if we were to get rid of the 13 gallon sticker, she'd be really mad at me.
  • 00:37:08
    and I think lots of people, the emails that we saw, lots of people saying I can get down to not much trash at all and if we went away from having that as an option, I can appreciate that it's a difficult thing to track but I think it would be a mistake to get rid of that option because it allows a lot of people to really minimize the trash they put out.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 00:37:32
    And that's behavior we're trying to incentivize.
  • 00:37:34
    That's right.
  • 00:37:35
    And the concern that I've got is that where you've got basically looking at, I don't know, at the page 15 of our packet, I don't know what page it is of this, but if you're charging $10 for a 32-gallon cart and $22 for something that is three times as large, you're not incentivizing economy.
  • 00:38:02
    you're not incentivizing recycling.
• • Michael Payne
  • 00:38:07
    My concern I guess would just be and certainly I think not being touched in so long there's a lot we could do to long term make it more sustainable but depending on how you do it my concern would just be it is a core service and depending on what rates you set you could be having an annual cost increase you know around a hundred dollars
  • 00:38:27
    or more for some families, which would be the equivalent for the average household of one cent increase of the real estate tax.
  • 00:38:35
    So it's not a negligible difference and it just kind of seems like a backhanded way to raise revenue in an even more regressive way than the real estate tax, depending on where we want to set the revenues at.
  • 00:38:49
    and I, you know, I really don't know the industry, but I also have the concern, you know, with who we contract with for picking it up, that they are a monopoly within the region and that there's a lot of cost there that's just rent seeking as compared to if the city was doing it on their own, you know, what the cost of the service could be.
  • 00:39:07
    But, you know, that's just a gas site.
  • 00:39:08
    I don't really know what the cost, you know, come out to.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 00:39:11
    Staining up our own gas trash system would really be expensive, but I don't know.
  • 00:39:18
    Yeah, I may appreciate your point, Michael, about particularly, you know, the regressive aspect of it.
  • 00:39:24
    But to me, this is one of those things where if you're generating the trash, you should pay for your trash.
  • 00:39:35
    I see it differently than like other social justice type issues.
  • 00:39:39
    To me, if you're generating refuse, you should pay to have that disposed of.
  • 00:39:48
    maybe we can figure out a different way to do it than these rent-seeking monopolists, I agree with that.
  • 00:39:55
    And the other question I had was on the decals.
  • 00:39:57
    I get the fact that it's difficult to track, but we know how many we sell per year, right?
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:40:02
    The decals, the stickers, so you know how many
  • 00:40:08
    I think are sold, but sold to whom you don't have.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 00:40:11
    But you could just like average it out, right?
  • 00:40:13
    Have you done that?
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:40:14
    Oh, yeah.
  • 00:40:16
    And I don't have the number of top head.
  • 00:40:18
    I don't know if you call or wouldn't mind looking up the number of stickers.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 00:40:22
    Those are 13 gallon or?
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:40:24
    Well, there's 13 gallon for the small and 32 gallon for the larger two sizes.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 00:40:32
    If you wouldn't mind speaking in the microphone so people can at home can hear, thank you.
• • SPEAKER_15
  • 00:40:40
    So there's two ways of sale point for the stickers.
  • 00:40:43
    There's directly from the city which are considered internal and then external vendors.
  • 00:40:47
    I believe the city of Charlottesville sells it to them at a slight discount and then they sell it to the customer at the charge that the city of Charlottesville would sell it as an internal.
  • 00:40:57
    And in FY 2024, there was 18,872 internal stickers sold.
  • 00:41:04
    and for external stickers in the same fiscal year, there's 16,997.
  • 00:41:07
    So about 18,817,000, so about 35,000 total.
  • 00:41:08
    Thank you.
  • 00:41:09
    We don't know how many people that is, we just know the stickers.
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:41:24
    If you looked at what I would consider a true cost of service, those 10, 16, and 22 would actually be closer because collection is the predominant cost driver there, not the disposal.
  • 00:41:35
    I mean, and so the difference is really disposal between those three.
  • 00:41:39
    And so that gets into a little bit of kind of the policy piece of it is setting a rate to encourage diversion or encourage people to divert more and get a smaller container.
  • 00:41:53
    is the financial piece of it there.
  • 00:41:55
    And so what I laid out here was trying to strike a reasonable balance of those.
  • 00:42:00
    It doesn't mean you couldn't revisit those and say $10 is should be $8 and the $22 should be $24.
  • 00:42:07
    You know, you could shift those around a little bit.
  • 00:42:11
    But I think that's more of a policy driven decision versus a cost of service decision.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 00:42:18
    Yeah, I mean to me one way to do this is you just back into you know how much stickers and decals and everything else and you figure out and you know your total costs and then you distribute that in such a way that the cost of each of these stickers and decals and whatever matches what it takes to run the system.
  • 00:42:35
    I mean do we have a line item in our budget called trash or refuse?
• • SPEAKER_05
  • 00:42:44
    she's coming well we don't have just to be able to give you facts yeah there there is a line for the operations part of refuse collection there's also the landfill closure piece that I believe is in your 3.8 number or no it's not okay yeah so there are two components to that but yes it is a line item within the public works budget I guess I'd just be interested in what other people thought about it
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 00:43:12
    So I had a couple of questions and comments.
  • 00:43:15
    So the way I'm hearing is that what we have been charging has been relatively low compared to other cities.
  • 00:43:28
    What I saw, we were like 15.
  • 00:43:31
    and I think P-Town and Porchmouth was like 35 and you know, so we're an average of 25 and we're at about 15, 16.
  • 00:43:41
    So it sounds like we've been low and I don't think I read or missed it over where we hadn't raised prices since 2000, about 20 years.
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:43:53
    I'd say more or less 20 years.
  • 00:43:54
    Yeah.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 00:43:55
    And so the revenue is 1.2.
  • 00:43:56
    The cost is 3.8 roughly.
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:44:01
    3.0 including those other non-core services, correct.
  • 00:44:09
    I did want to address a comment about the stickers as well.
  • 00:44:15
    If you allowed stickers to be placed out instead of the carts,
  • 00:44:22
    There is just a collection efficiency consideration because an automated collection vehicle, the driver is staying in the vehicle and operating the mechanical arm from inside the vehicle.
  • 00:44:33
    And they would just require them to exit the vehicle to grab that.
  • 00:44:37
    And if there's not a cart there, they don't have an easy way to get it into the truck.
  • 00:44:43
    Sometimes if there's an extra bag, it's a paid bag, they'll get out.
  • 00:44:48
    that will empty the cart, get out, put the bag in the empty cart, and then dump the cart again.
  • 00:44:53
    So it's just, you know, consideration there too.
  • 00:44:56
    It may sound easy to just be able to put out a bag, but you have to think about how it's being collected as part of that consideration.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 00:45:06
    Do we know, by the way, what a private service is charging for a comparable service?
  • 00:45:13
    In Charlottesville, Jason's going to need a lot more.
  • 00:45:19
    I've always wondered why people bothered to have private service that I was assuming was more rather than going with the city's essentially subsidized service.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 00:45:30
    So I want to hear from Natalie because we do have another presentation, but we can go a little bit longer.
  • 00:45:35
    I would like to kind of give an hour to each.
  • 00:45:37
    So I want to give another 15.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 00:45:39
    Thank you.
  • 00:45:40
    I do have several questions on this slide and the following slide.
  • 00:45:44
    The core services and the additional services.
  • 00:45:46
    I just want to clarify.
  • 00:45:47
    You're saying those are two different options for how we could do the price structure?
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:45:51
    So this is kind of more similar to how you viewed it in the past, from past presentations of just kind of looking at those core services of collection, of refuse recycling, and then the tipping fees associated with the disposal or recycling processing of those materials.
  • 00:46:09
    So this is just, this slide is just focused on those costs.
  • 00:46:12
    And then the next slide is if you also
  • 00:46:14
    We're looking to recover costs associated with those additional services.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 00:46:19
    Right, so it's two different options.
  • 00:46:20
    There's option A, it would be like $10 for the smallest version, or we could do $16.
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:46:24
    That's the suggestion.
  • 00:46:26
    And, you know, in the implementation, one consideration is to start with this and work towards the other one, phasing it in just because it is potentially a big change.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 00:46:35
    Okay, thanks.
  • 00:46:35
    I just wanted to clarify that those were options, not one building on top of the other.
  • 00:46:39
    Correct.
  • 00:46:40
    Okay, and then
  • 00:46:43
    I have to be honest, this is not what I was expecting to get when I requested a study of the trash at the end of last year.
  • 00:46:49
    I was really just expecting a presentation on how much we should raise our sticker price.
  • 00:46:58
    if there were any other things that we might want to consider, like bringing it in-house or something like that.
  • 00:47:03
    So I was a little surprised to read this when it came out on the agenda.
  • 00:47:06
    Because of the reaction that I had was similar to the reaction that Councilor Snook had and Pinkston and a lot of the constituents that we've had email us in the past week saying, I don't generate enough trash to make this worthwhile.
  • 00:47:21
    Same for me.
  • 00:47:22
    I maybe put my trash can on the curb
  • 00:47:27
    and I
  • 00:47:35
    It's not that much money.
  • 00:47:36
    So I don't go through a whole sheet of stickers in a year and there's lots of other people out there like that.
  • 00:47:44
    So suddenly jumping up to $10 is a lot of money versus doubling the trash sticker?
  • 00:47:50
    That's fine.
  • 00:47:51
    That works for me and for a lot of the people that we have right in.
  • 00:47:56
    I know I'm up here just because of what happens to me but because of what happens to our residents.
  • 00:48:02
    So I don't think that
  • 00:48:06
    updating the sticker cost is off the table.
  • 00:48:09
    I think that's definitely still a consideration that we should keep in mind.
  • 00:48:14
    The assumptions, I'm not sure that those are assumptions based on our community because of that sort of thing.
  • 00:48:26
    The amount of trash that we produce might be different than
  • 00:48:31
    other areas where you've worked.
  • 00:48:32
    I'm not sure.
  • 00:48:33
    I know you did the comp set comparison for pricing.
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:48:36
    And I did look at the amount of waste that's, you know, because we can track total disposal, right at the transportation.
  • 00:48:42
    They'll look at that and look at the number of households that works out to a little over 20 pounds per household per week, which is very much like a lot of other communities out there.
  • 00:48:53
    And so, you know, it ranges, you know, but I think 20 to 30 pounds per household per week is
  • 00:49:02
    and so I do think it's
  • 00:49:10
    from the average across all households.
  • 00:49:13
    I think it's in the range of what we would see in other places.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 00:49:19
    If this was something that we were interested in shifting to, what would happen to all of the bins of the people who already have a trash bin?
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:49:27
    There's a couple options.
  • 00:49:30
    They may have a use for it at their household.
  • 00:49:33
    There's something, when I've looked at options like this, when they've made transitions, you know, set up areas for them to recycle them if they would like.
  • 00:49:41
    I mean, I know that some people have purchased those on their own, but you want a standardized cart from, for a page you throw system.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 00:49:50
    Okay.
  • 00:49:56
    And so the reason why I'm still stuck on the stickers of it all is because for the pay as you throw system, that seems to be the most Taylorized way to do it.
  • 00:50:09
    It does eliminate the efficiency of having the mechanism.
  • 00:50:15
    But if I suddenly had to pay 10 or $16 for the trash collection every month, even though I'm not using it at all,
  • 00:50:26
    that is not the incentive structure to reduce my trash volume, whereas the sticker is exactly how much I need.
  • 00:50:35
    And so it is kind of more tailored to what everyone actually produces or incentivizes them to produce less so they have to use fewer stickers.
  • 00:50:48
    The debate about whether or not this should be fully funded or a city service, I'm not sure I fall particularly strongly in either camp, so for now I would be happy to see us recoup at least some of those costs, if not all of them, but make that
  • 00:51:08
    It is an extent, it is a big divide and I think that divide can be closed.
  • 00:51:12
    I don't know if we need to close it all the way, especially not in one fell swoop necessarily, but I think there's, especially if you haven't updated the prices since 2007, there is room to do that 150% increase on stickers or whatever the options would be.
  • 00:51:26
    I would love to see what options of the sticker adjustment would look like.
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:51:30
    One thing I point out as well, I mean a challenge of the current sticker programs is kind of the enforcement element of
  • 00:51:37
    You know, we driving around the city, you can see carts that have had stickers upon stickers placed on them.
  • 00:51:43
    They're supposed to be removed.
  • 00:51:45
    So making sure that that was picked up was actually paid for.
  • 00:51:49
    It's just more of a challenge is not saying that, you know, there is some auditing that happens.
  • 00:51:53
    The contractor is supposed to look after that.
  • 00:51:56
    There's just opportunities for things that kind of fall through the cracks.
  • 00:52:01
    And so raising the prices may shift some of that as well.
  • 00:52:06
    If
  • 00:52:07
    You know, just creates more opportunities potentially for, not more opportunities, but more instead of, you know, to look for ways around that.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 00:52:16
    True, and that was a concern that we had from a constituent last year at some point where he noticed that the stickers weren't always collected or they weren't always on there when it was collected and that's
  • 00:52:29
    You know, a training or a enforcement thing that we absolutely could work on.
  • 00:52:33
    I've been, that's happened to me too, where I pull it out and I don't go back out to put the sticker on and then the next time I'm like, oh gosh, here's two stickers.
  • 00:52:40
    Sorry about that.
  • 00:52:41
    But not everyone's going to do that.
  • 00:52:44
    Was there any research into picking up garbage every other week?
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:52:52
    I've seen some, you know, there's a question about cart size.
  • 00:52:57
    That's been another approach that I've seen on the very small end, looking to go at every other week garbage.
  • 00:53:04
    And I think, again, that's a consideration.
  • 00:53:07
    There's always weighing the pros and cons of that.
  • 00:53:10
    It's just
  • 00:53:12
    when it's set out every other week, it's putting in the onus on somebody to know, hey, is that person supposed to have it this week or not?
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 00:53:18
    A recycling is already every other week, so that's already something people consider.
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:53:21
    Oh, right, right.
  • 00:53:22
    But the expectation is everybody gets it every other week versus one neighbor is get every week and the next neighbor gets it every other week.
  • 00:53:29
    So I think there's some ways around that.
  • 00:53:30
    Maybe it's a special cart that designates in every other week.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 00:53:33
    Or just to cross the board.
  • 00:53:36
    Maybe not for commercial enterprises, but residential.
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:53:40
    I guess I've never seen that implemented on a city-wide basis.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 00:53:44
    Yeah, that would be interesting to look into.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 00:53:46
    You have to be very careful about when you put chicken bones in your garbage.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 00:53:54
    So, of course, we're not going to vote on this.
  • 00:53:57
    So Sam, will you look for direction?
• • Sam Sanders
  • 00:53:59
    No, I think I got it.
  • 00:54:01
    We have some work to do.
  • 00:54:04
    And we'll come back.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 00:54:04
    Thank you.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 00:54:08
    Can I get clarity from the rest?
  • 00:54:09
    It sounds like I know where I think Michael is.
  • 00:54:13
    What about Natalie is like you said sort of halfway between me and him.
  • 00:54:21
    What about you and you guys in terms of how much you feel like we should be recouping?
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 00:54:28
    I'm fine with the idea of at least moving toward whether we get there all the way is less important, but let's start on the way towards recouping more costs.
  • 00:54:42
    If I were just reacting off the top of my head, I would say that rather than setting rates at 16, 22, and 28 for 32, 64, 96 gallons, maybe reduce the 32 gallons and increase the 96 gallons, and maybe you start to incentivize people to have less garbage.
  • 00:55:08
    And you could still get to the same overall number.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 00:55:13
    Yeah, I'm in the camp that, similar to Lloyd, I haven't looked at what the cost would be for the different gallons, but to move closer to the cost of the service.
  • 00:55:27
    So even if we just increase it over the next few years, get a few more hundred thousand dollars or whatever that number is towards that gap, I think we need to do it and probably
  • 00:55:41
    You know, and I know a lot of things that we're doing now that we were able to kind of focus on and study, but probably not go, you know, have the cost in the future kind of more keep up with the cost of the service and, you know, not, you know, go this long again, because it seems like when we do have to address things like this, it seemed like it's a
  • 00:56:10
    It's a big deal and it is.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 00:56:14
    It never occurred to me that there is a cost to the city when I'm using my little plastic garbage can because it's harder for the city or it's harder for the garbage folks to deal with than if I were to have a larger can that I don't actually use much of.
  • 00:56:36
    But I've had the same plastic thing for 30 years and
  • 00:56:40
    You know, it's just the way it is.
  • 00:56:42
    But there's some costs like that that, I mean, this is very illuminating in a lot of ways to realize where all those costs keep coming in.
  • 00:56:49
    And maybe there's some ways we could create some incentives for people to do things that are a little less expensive for the city.
• • SPEAKER_06
  • 00:56:56
    I mean, in some cases, with communities that have had, like, when I consider a manual collection, you know, in some cases, the carts can be what are called semi-automated, where the cart
  • 00:57:05
    can be placed up against the back of the rear loader.
  • 00:57:07
    There's an hydraulic tipper that dumps it.
  • 00:57:10
    But when it's people managing all that, that is a job that's up there in terms of dangerous jobs.
  • 00:57:17
    And people have tried to move away from that because there's a lot of worker injuries and things like that as well.
  • 00:57:21
    That's good information.
  • 00:57:25
    You've got to think about it.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 00:57:28
    So Natalie, I heard that you were kind of in the camp of moving a little bit towards sustainability or paying the cost.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 00:57:36
    I'm inclined to increase the price of the stickers.
  • 00:57:40
    I don't know if we need to go all the way right now, but in general I support a sticker increase.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 00:57:48
    Michael, did you have anything else you want to add to this discussion?
• • Michael Payne
  • 00:57:53
    Just again, I think for some customers, the increase would be equivalent to us raising the real estate tax by one cent, and we've relied very heavily on our most regressive taxes while only raising the real estate tax by one cent, and it's still lower than the early 2000s.
  • 00:58:09
    That was for the $10 monthly fee?
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 00:58:13
    Depending on what your usage currently is, as I understand it.
• • Michael Payne
  • 00:58:22
    and then the other, with the comparison to other communities, obviously most of those communities were geographically much larger.
  • 00:58:29
    I'd be curious kind of the comparison of their cost, what they charge versus the total cost for them as an agency as well as you said a lot of those costs are factoring in additional services.
  • 00:58:40
    So it's not, I'm not sure it's quite apples to apples, but
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 00:58:49
    Thank you.
  • 00:58:50
    Thank you so much.

4. Natural Gas Decarbonization Next Steps

• • Juandiego Wade
  • 00:58:51
    Okay, the next item that we have is the natural gas decarbonization NICS steps.
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 00:59:16
    Good afternoon, Mayor, Vice Mayor and Counselors.
  • 00:59:18
    I'm Lauren Hills-Bran.
  • 00:59:19
    I'm the Director of Utilities.
  • 00:59:23
    And here to talk about the Charlottesville Gas Decarbonization Study and next steps.
  • 00:59:31
    I wanted to acknowledge the staff from the Office of Department of Finance and the Office of Sustainability who assisted with this study also.
  • 00:59:41
    Let's see.
  • 00:59:46
    The agenda for this afternoon's presentation, I'm going to go over a little background on Charlottesville gas, the decarbonization goal and how this study aligns with the city's goal, decarbonization study and the timeline that we've been undertaking for the last couple of years, benchmarking lessons, customer-led pathways,
  • 01:00:08
    pathways under the Charlottesville Gas Control, the modeling that was associated with the system decarbonization, and next steps.
  • 01:00:21
    Charlottesville Gas, we're a city-owned gas system, and we're one of three municipal natural gas utilities in Virginia.
  • 01:00:28
    The other two are Danville and Richmond, and we've had gas operations in this community.
  • 01:00:33
    for about 150 years.
  • 01:00:36
    We currently have 21,050 customers, of which 55% are in the city and 45% are in the county.
  • 01:00:44
    And our customer base is generally residential, about 89%.
  • 01:00:56
    So the Department of Utilities initiated and funded this study as part of ongoing work to address the challenges
  • 01:01:03
    of Decarbonizing Energy Related Admissions in the Community.
  • 01:01:08
    And I will want you to note that we're the only municipality natural gas system of our size in this country that is undertaking a study of this kind.
  • 01:01:19
    It was a voluntary initiative.
  • 01:01:20
    We weren't required to do it.
  • 01:01:22
    and but yet we wanted to support and align with the two citywide greenhouse gas reduction goals adopted by city council in 2019, which in 2030 we see a 45% reduction and in 2050 we're carbon neutral.
  • 01:01:41
    The timeline for our study we started in November of 2022 with a gas mitigation survey where we
  • 01:01:48
    surveyed residential customers and UVA survey group assisted us with this.
  • 01:01:53
    We selected Black and Veatch a consulting firm that had done previous studies for other similar utilities, some were private, some were some most of them were public gas, I guess some of them were private and some were public.
  • 01:02:10
    But we did select Black and Veatch in December of 2022.
  • 01:02:14
    We've given three previous presentations to City Council, a kickoff in March of 2023, and then two updates in October of 2023 in March of 2024.
  • 01:02:26
    We also conducted a business focus group where we brought in different business sectors around the community to get their input in the spring of 2024.
  • 01:02:36
    And then we held community engagement sessions in the summer of 2024, where 170 people participated.
  • 01:02:44
    and the summary of all of their comments can be found in the appendix of this report.
  • 01:02:52
    Black and Veatch finished the study in December of 2024 and the final report was delivered to us and then we released the report to the community in January of 2025.
  • 01:03:06
    So the decarbonization study evaluated multiple pathways
  • 01:03:11
    It looked at carbon offsets, renewable natural gas, hydrogen.
  • 01:03:16
    We also looked at customer led actions or actions that are out of the Charlottesville gas control, which included electrification and energy efficiency.
  • 01:03:25
    The consultant looked at the emissions impact associated with those different pathways, as well as the cost of those different pathways.
  • 01:03:34
    We also looked at benchmarking our gas operations by looking at
  • 01:03:39
    opportunities to reduce methane emissions and enhance our energy efficiency programs.
  • 01:03:49
    Just to move into the benchmarking lessons, Black and Veatch reviewed the data that we report to PHMSA annually.
  • 01:03:58
    This is the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Administration, but we're required to give them certain information about our
  • 01:04:08
    Leeks and Methane Emission Leakages and they use that to compare against other municipal utilities with similar operations.
  • 01:04:17
    They also reviewed our energy efficiency programs that we offered and that we currently offer and they compared that against other programs of peer utilities.
  • 01:04:30
    I'm not going to spend a lot of time and detail on how that comparison because they spent a lot of detail in the last March.
  • 01:04:37
    update to council.
  • 01:04:39
    But I'm here to talk about the recommendations that they came up with.
  • 01:04:44
    To reduce methane, they ask us to continue to complete our leak surveys of the residential gas system every three years, which is more frequent than the required five-year interval.
  • 01:04:59
    I might add, we do the business sectors every year, and that is a requirement that we will not change as well.
  • 01:05:09
    Along with those leak surveys, we grade the intensity and characteristics of the leak.
  • 01:05:15
    And depending on, you know, I always think we kind of go a little bit beyond what's required, but when you grade a leak, depending on the intensity and characteristic, you don't have to repair that leak right away.
  • 01:05:30
    and, but yet, Charlottesville Gas, we repair the leak right away.
  • 01:05:35
    Other gas companies don't do this.
  • 01:05:38
    Like Richmond Gas often gets criticized that they've got thousands of leaks that are occurring.
  • 01:05:42
    Granted, they may be grade, you know, a grade, such a grade that they don't need to address it right away.
  • 01:05:48
    But we don't let a leak go.
  • 01:05:50
    We repair it right away.
  • 01:05:52
    And thus, we reduce our methane emissions automatically by not letting that leak continue.
  • 01:06:00
    We also install excess flow valves on our service lines.
  • 01:06:03
    This is a valve that you place generally at the property line so that if the homeowner accidentally is digging for something on their property and they accidentally hit the line, it will automatically, it will shut down that service line.
  • 01:06:23
    Emissions aren't allowed, the leak isn't allowed to leak out through the service line.
  • 01:06:28
    This actually was a requirement by PHMSA in 2000 that these excess flow valves were installed on all residential services and it was required in 2000.
  • 01:06:39
    And we've been doing it since then.
  • 01:06:42
    They came out with commercial requirements in 2017, which we currently do.
  • 01:06:47
    and it was really enforced as a safety precaution.
  • 01:06:50
    You know, it was a safety issue, but it inherently reduces your methane by cutting off that point of that leak.
  • 01:06:58
    We also were urged to continue investing in our public awareness programs to prevent third party excavation damages.
  • 01:07:08
    That's especially important in plastic systems of which, of our mains, we've got about 80% plastic material.
  • 01:07:16
    We also are asked to continue to emphasize the existing training in the operator qualification program.
  • 01:07:25
    And this is what we're required to train our operators and anybody that works on a gas system to be competent.
  • 01:07:32
    Typical Crew Supervisor will take about 45 computer-based tests to make sure he's confident.
  • 01:07:40
    And then he's got 55 field tests that he's got to pass on a regular basis to demonstrate his competency.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 01:07:50
    Sorry, just before you go on to the next slide, I have a question.
  • 01:07:53
    So if you're still on the slide, keep going.
  • 01:07:55
    That's okay.
  • 01:07:56
    Okay, so it says at the bottom the measures are already being implemented by Charlottesville?
  • 01:08:00
    Yes.
  • 01:08:00
    Were these, did they start being implemented during the course of the study or before?
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:08:05
    We've always implemented these.
  • 01:08:07
    We've always, and I think that was demonstrated when they were going over the peer review with you guys last March, that, you know, we've always taken the approach and we kind of go over and beyond.
  • 01:08:18
    So there wasn't anything they could recommend that we weren't already doing other than we continue doing it.
  • 01:08:24
    Great, so, and not stop.
  • 01:08:26
    Thank you, I appreciate it.
  • 01:08:27
    We don't have any plans, too.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 01:08:28
    Could I ask you about the excess flow valves?
  • 01:08:30
    Are those based on every house?
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:08:33
    We are working through the system, you know, because we just started the program in 2000.
  • 01:08:37
    Okay.
  • 01:08:39
    And so if somebody needs their service line replaced because something's been damaged, we go ahead and put an excess float valve on it.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 01:08:50
    How many would you say are out there?
  • 01:08:52
    I mean, 50% of the houses?
  • 01:08:53
    I need to get back to you on that.
  • 01:08:56
    Just the ballpark.
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:08:59
    maybe.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 01:08:59
    I mean, it seems to me like that's an incredible safety benefit.
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:09:05
    It is a safety benefit.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 01:09:06
    I mean, you think of all the houses, you see places, and I think the last one was in New Jersey where a whole block goes up in flames because they presumably would have been prevented if they had one of these sorts of valves.
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:09:20
    I don't know about that.
  • 01:09:22
    It depends
  • 01:09:23
    where the damage occurred.
  • 01:09:30
    So we do have to inconvenience people when we install these because they have to turn off their gas.
  • 01:09:34
    So when somebody needs their service line replaced or some repair done, then we go ahead and install these because they're out of gas at that point.
• • SPEAKER_13
  • 01:09:44
    Thank you.
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:09:50
    They also recommend that we develop and implement preemptive pipeline and equipment maintenance or repair.
  • 01:09:56
    And with this, we are replacing our last mile of cast iron pipe from our system, which is located in the West Main or the corner area.
  • 01:10:04
    As most of you know, we were fortunate to receive a $7.1 million grant from the U.S.
  • 01:10:11
    Department of Transportation and the PHMSA group.
  • 01:10:15
    through the Natural Gas Distribution Infrastructure Safety and Modernization Grant Program.
  • 01:10:20
    And we're using these funds to improve that system.
  • 01:10:24
    And according to EPA, you have about, based on losses of cast iron versus plastic pipe, there's 25 times more chances of losing gas through a cast iron system than there is plastic.
  • 01:10:40
    So we are incentivized and we have the money and
  • 01:10:44
    We're currently under design of this system.
  • 01:10:47
    And we were hopeful that we would be ready to start construction in the summer of this year.
  • 01:10:53
    But because the design is taking a little longer than we thought it would be, and we're incorporating also our water main replacement that needs to be done in that corridor at the same time, so people are only inconvenienced once.
  • 01:11:06
    We anticipate we'll be starting with this in the summer of 2026.
  • 01:11:09
    And
  • 01:11:13
    It's a two-year project.
  • 01:11:15
    I might add too, along with this, we also have as part of our O&M procedure manual that if we have occurrence of a failure in a certain proximity, we, you know, like sometimes we have caps fail that are fused on in a certain proximity, then we have to go in and we have three of those happen in a certain location, then we have to go in and replace the entire system.
  • 01:11:42
    and we've had that occur in recent years on NASA and some other streets, but that's also part of our regular procedures to make sure our system does not become in disrepair.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 01:11:57
    Sorry, can you go back real quick?
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:11:59
    I don't know if I can.
  • 01:12:02
    Yes.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 01:12:03
    Again at the bottom, it says estimated 3,607.
  • 01:12:05
    What is that?
  • 01:12:06
    What is the unit?
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:12:11
    So that is a metric ton of carbon dioxide equivalent.
  • 01:12:22
    Thank you.
  • 01:12:24
    And just to put it in perspective, well, I don't know if I want to put it in perspective.
  • 01:12:31
    If you look at our 2011 based on gas emissions, we've got 86,920.
  • 01:12:38
    So 2011 baseline, just to put that number in perspective if you want to.
  • 01:12:43
    What was that, sorry?
  • 01:12:46
    So the 2011 is 86,920 from indifference.
  • 01:12:49
    But yeah, so it does reduce our emissions.
  • 01:12:53
    OK, thanks.
  • 01:12:57
    So recommendations on our energy efficiency program.
  • 01:13:01
    It's suggested that Charlottesville gas should modify its existing appliance rebate program.
  • 01:13:06
    and we should include rebates and incentives to encourage its existing customers to adopt high efficiency natural gas appliances.
  • 01:13:14
    This is something we're certainly thinking about, but it may have unintended consequences based on the second bullet because we should discontinue any incentives or rebates promoting switching from electric to gas service.
  • 01:13:28
    And sometimes that's hard to track.
  • 01:13:31
    You know, that's the one reason
  • 01:13:33
    We decided to discontinue the tankless water heater because we couldn't track generally if people were moving from electric to gas service on it.
  • 01:13:44
    But we did discontinue that as part of that recommendation in July of 2024.
  • 01:13:50
    So the first suggestion does take some thought behind it in consideration.
  • 01:13:57
    Another recommendation, the third recommendation is we should offer custom incentives tailored for specific customer segments that include commercial, industrial, and multifamily programs.
  • 01:14:08
    As part of this, a few years ago, West Haven, they approached us about participating in funding their attic insulation prevent.
  • 01:14:19
    We were able to
  • 01:14:21
    do that through our income qualified program.
  • 01:14:25
    So that was a major success that we coordinated with Lee.
  • 01:14:31
    And the third recommendation, we are looking at this because there were some comparisons with other large utility programs that are doing this now.
  • 01:14:43
    And so we are looking to see if we can
  • 01:14:46
    implement something that's similar but have a successful program that would relate to the utility of our size.
  • 01:14:56
    Another energy efficiency recommendation is to increase the awareness of our rebate programs.
  • 01:15:02
    We found, based on our customer mitigation survey, that there was low awareness of our current energy efficiency programs.
  • 01:15:11
    Added consolation was 68% people not familiar at all.
  • 01:15:15
    programable thermostats is 57 percent and our free home weatherization program is 49 percent, which we're kind of surprised by because it's not for lack of trying to get outreach efforts.
  • 01:15:27
    We include, we do postcards and periodically put it in the monthly e-newsletter, utility e-newsletter.
  • 01:15:35
    where we have over 11,500 subscribers.
  • 01:15:38
    But obviously we need to do more.
  • 01:15:42
    And it's not, you know, there's been some comments about, oh, we should fund more, right?
  • 01:15:48
    We should fund more.
  • 01:15:49
    Well, we have funding that is not used.
  • 01:15:51
    We think we don't have a funding issue.
  • 01:15:53
    We've got a public awareness message issue that we've got to work on.
  • 01:15:58
    So we've been talking internally, how can we get the word out?
  • 01:16:02
    And we're thinking about changing the message.
  • 01:16:05
    doing some things differently that we did on our gas safety program.
  • 01:16:11
    But more about that in a little bit on another slide.
  • 01:16:18
    They also recommend we should consider expanding building envelope incentives and offering incentives that further increase building efficiency such as duct work and other insulation rebase.
  • 01:16:29
    and this one we saw based on our customer mitigation survey.
  • 01:16:35
    We asked the question about what would be the main reason for you not to apply for attic insulation rebate and most people think they have adequate, 68% said they have adequate insulation.
  • 01:16:48
    Yet we know that 70% of the homes in the city were built before 1970 and probably don't.
  • 01:16:54
    So there's opportunities here and we also ask on that survey within the past three years
  • 01:16:59
    have they done any energy upgrades to their home?
  • 01:17:01
    And 67% said no.
  • 01:17:03
    So there's a lot of opportunity here, which we have fashioned our new energy efficiency program after that you'll hear about more in an upcoming slide.
  • 01:17:21
    So moving into customer-led pathways on energy efficiency, you've got to recognize that
  • 01:17:27
    Energy efficiencies largely depended on the end users, customers' willingness to invest or modify their behavior.
  • 01:17:34
    So we can't necessarily make people do this, but we could certainly get enough public awareness to try to incentivize people.
  • 01:17:42
    But we'll have to, we'll have to, we just have to see.
  • 01:17:45
    It's hard to forecast the impact of energy efficiency initiatives.
  • 01:17:50
    And our consultant, based on natural gas usage between 2010 and 2022,
  • 01:17:57
    using weather normalized data, the average consumption per residential customer has declined by 1% per year, which is certainly factored into the modeling that they did.
  • 01:18:08
    Another customer-led pathway is electrification.
  • 01:18:16
    And the report does acknowledge the potential of emissions reductions through electrification.
  • 01:18:21
    And this is a customer-led initiative, again,
  • 01:18:24
    such as fuel switching are largely dependent on end users' customers' willingness to invest or modify their behavior.
  • 01:18:31
    And as a natural gas only utility, Charlottesville gas cannot use the natural gas enterprise funds to subsidize a private utility.
  • 01:18:39
    But yet the Office of Sustainability has funds where they promote and programs that they promote renewable energy and electrification opportunities as well as energy efficiency programs.
  • 01:18:50
    within the community and municipal operations.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 01:18:52
    So that third bullet, why is that the case?
  • 01:18:54
    Is that illegal things by the General Assembly or just a choice?
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:18:59
    You know, we have often thought that when we believe it is a legal thing or it also goes to some of our financial policies, we have some questions about this right now that work itself in with our
  • 01:19:14
    City Attorney's Office to give us a more definitive answer.
  • 01:19:19
    But I know, based on my experience in utilities, to be fair to ratepayers, you only pay for what the operations of the utilities involve, like water and wastewater.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 01:19:35
    Right, but the whole point of climate change is that there's all these extrinsic external implications that it has on people that
  • 01:19:44
    is not priced
  • 01:20:03
    Impact on the Climate, but anyway.
• • Michael Payne
  • 01:20:06
    On that point, you know, is that third bullet point based on a specific bill that was passed by the General Assembly?
  • 01:20:14
    Because I know across the country it's fairly common for there to be surcharges on natural gas utility bills that go towards various public benefits, usually environmental, but sometimes even non-environmental consumer programs.
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:20:30
    This one we are quoting one of the general assemblies, which is reasonable and fair rates for I forget the code name, but it is something we've asked the city attorney's office to look at a little further.
• • 01:20:46
    Yes.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 01:20:47
    So I had a question about the third bullet point as well, which is what counts as subsidizing your private utility?
  • 01:20:55
    Like if
  • 01:20:56
    We were like you had the incentives and the rebates for the tankless water heaters and all of that.
  • 01:21:00
    But if we were to offer incentives and rebates for electrification, does that count as subsidizing?
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:21:06
    Yes, it would.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 01:21:07
    Dominion?
  • 01:21:08
    Yeah.
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:21:08
    Yeah.
  • 01:21:09
    It was because dominion is the private utility.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 01:21:11
    So even though we're offering a subsidy for the appliance, that counts as a subsidy for the electrical provider.
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:21:22
    and
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 01:21:40
    and that's what we're still checking to see.
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:21:43
    We're going to get further check into that.
• • Michael Payne
  • 01:21:47
    I think that that's important enough where there should be kind of independent review and multiple opinions because that's a pretty fundamental point that at least at this point we don't.
  • 01:21:58
    There seems to be some gray area around.
  • 01:22:00
    Yeah.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 01:22:06
    What was the fourth point?
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:22:08
    Oh, I'm sorry.
  • 01:22:11
    that it was pointing out that the office sustainability is promoting renewable electrification.
  • 01:22:22
    So pathways under Charlottesville Gas Control, Carbon Offsets is one of the pathways, a little background on it.
  • 01:22:30
    We have existing Carbon Offsets program that was presented to the city council during our rate setting in 2021.
  • 01:22:36
    And it's a five year contract that was executed in November of 2021.
  • 01:22:41
    and it's equivalent to 25% of the gas system emissions.
  • 01:22:45
    And I might add that carbon offsetting is a reduction of greenhouse gas emissions to make up for emissions that occur elsewhere.
  • 01:22:53
    There's a strict certification process that the registries that authorize these, there's national and international registries that they check the carbon offsets meet the real additional verifiable and permanent criteria
  • 01:23:11
    I will note that all offset credits purchased are from projects that have already occurred, so they're not going to occur in the future.
  • 01:23:18
    They've already occurred and they've created that permanent greenhouse gas reduction already.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 01:23:26
    Is that what British Petroleum, is that who we use?
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:23:28
    I'm sorry?
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 01:23:29
    Is that what British Petroleum?
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:23:31
    So our broker is British Petroleum, but they access the same register other brokers through the country do.
  • 01:23:39
    The British Petroleum doesn't develop any projects.
  • 01:23:43
    These international, and they're well known, international or national depending on where they are in the world, put together these, have these projects that are submitted to them.
  • 01:23:55
    that they certify.
  • 01:23:57
    And then they have this listing of projects with the greenhouse gas reduction that people look to to offer to municipal agencies like us or other companies like us.
  • 01:24:12
    But yeah, so, you know, we're not actually British petroleum is not by developing the projects
  • 01:24:21
    This registry everybody goes to in the country to get their carbon offsets.
  • 01:24:27
    That's where they go to.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 01:24:28
    Do you think there's any risk that that whole process would crumble under the current administration in DC?
  • 01:24:36
    Or do you think that's something that?
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:24:38
    No, I don't think so.
  • 01:24:39
    I don't have any indication of that.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 01:24:41
    Could we take that money in whatever the offsets are and invest it in climate work here instead?
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:24:49
    Then you would not see the, well, let me get to a further side and you'll see the impact on it.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 01:24:54
    Can I ask a question about the broker ship?
  • 01:24:57
    Excuse me?
  • 01:24:57
    Can I ask a question about the broker ship?
  • 01:24:59
    Yeah, sure.
  • 01:24:59
    Is that, do we need a broker?
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:25:03
    Yeah, you have to have a broker.
  • 01:25:04
    No matter if it's British Petroleum or somebody else in the country that there's a lot of people, and there are some fly by, you know, people you wouldn't want to get associated with is what I hear, but
  • 01:25:16
    Yeah, you need a broker.
  • 01:25:17
    You just can't go to the registries directly.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 01:25:20
    Is that a federal thing or how how come it's set up that way?
  • 01:25:25
    I don't know that detail, but I can get that back to you.
• • SPEAKER_04
  • 01:25:29
    Thanks.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 01:25:29
    Yeah, it'll be it'll be good, you know, because this one I hear a lot of questions about to see just to find out more about that to see if maybe if we can set our own standards and
  • 01:25:46
    because maybe I've been watching too many PBS specials that these things are not really doing what they're supposed to be doing.
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:25:55
    Supposedly they are verified, so people visit them and this registry controls them that's pretty well-prespected.
  • 01:26:06
    But I can get you more detail on that, I can get that up for you.
  • 01:26:13
    So when we got feedback on carbon offsets based on the carbon mitigation study, the program was 83% people thought that it should be greatly expanded, slightly expanded, or should continue as is.
  • 01:26:29
    But yet we did, when we listened to, at the listening sessions, there were general concerns surrounding the potential of greenwashing and there's interest in sourcing more local carbon offsets.
  • 01:26:43
    Now, carbon offsets, there's some considerations that's relatively low cost per carbon removed.
  • 01:26:49
    And the carbon offset program increases the average monthly bill by 60 cents.
  • 01:26:55
    Carbon offsets are readily available to meet goals.
  • 01:26:59
    Carbon offsets complement our energy efficiency initiatives and
  • 01:27:04
    Successful implementation of energy efficiency initiatives could reduce our dependence on carbon offsets.
  • 01:27:11
    There are no local projects or Virginia projects that meet the criteria to be a certified carbon offset at this point.
  • 01:27:20
    But we are currently in conversation in-house about what we could do moving forward to promote local projects or even something regionally or even something in Virginia.
  • 01:27:34
    just so we have that local flavor.
  • 01:27:37
    But yet it still needs to be verifiable and that you can take the credit.
  • 01:27:43
    But it is something for discussion.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 01:27:46
    Have you told us how much we're spending on offsets right now?
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:27:49
    We're spending about $342,000 a year.
• • Michael Payne
  • 01:27:51
    And I'll just say, even with this slide, my inclination is
  • 01:28:00
    that we would be better off to use that almost $400,000 a year to be investing either in local efforts or the office of sustainability or some initiatives like that.
  • 01:28:10
    I know we're not investing in the worst carbon offsets there are, but just last year
  • 01:28:18
    there's a
  • 01:28:34
    happening is just inherently not that strong.
  • 01:28:37
    I just feel like we would see more immediate benefits investing in local efforts because a lot of these carbon offset investment vehicles, I think there's just inherently no way to evaluate exactly what happened at least on our end.
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:28:54
    Yeah, hopefully I can provide you some more information about that.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 01:29:00
    Yeah, and just with that, it would be good to know if we could, with that $400,000, like if we were to use that for more incentives or, you know, if that would make a difference, you know, what kind of comparison of that?
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:29:29
    So we move into pathways that are under our control and to review the low carbon fuels, which includes green and blue hydrogen and renewable natural gas.
  • 01:29:41
    Green hydrogen is created from electrolysis powered by renewable energy.
  • 01:29:45
    Blue hydrogen is created from steam methane reformation with carbon capture.
  • 01:29:50
    And renewable natural gas is a pipeline quality biogas.
  • 01:29:55
    developed using sources from landfills, livestock operations, wastewater treatment plants, food waste, and other organic waste.
  • 01:30:06
    So low carbon fuels, when you look at blue and green hydrogen, commercialized low carbon fuels is being used in small volumes today.
  • 01:30:16
    And currently, hydrogen can be blended up to 15% by volume directly into natural gas pipelines.
  • 01:30:23
    with minimal disruption to end users.
  • 01:30:26
    And this has to do with the BTU value of hydrogen.
  • 01:30:29
    It's a lot less than natural gas.
  • 01:30:32
    So you can only blend up to a certain point and it not have to any effect on the end user.
  • 01:30:39
    In October of 2023, the Department of Energy awarded $7 billion for seven hydrogen hubs across the US.
  • 01:30:46
    And these hubs are expected to be operational between 2030 and 2037.
  • 01:30:52
    and one is the Mid-Atlantic hub, which is very close to where our gas is fed to our system.
  • 01:31:00
    So there is the possibility and feasibility that we can access hydrogen when it's developed.
  • 01:31:08
    We, you know, right now fuel prices for hydrogen are significantly higher than natural gas prices, but they're expected to decline dramatically in approximately 10 years just based on supply.
  • 01:31:20
    with regards to renewable natural gas, access to supplies currently limited by source availability, but for the study and based on black and features insight, it's capped at 22% blend into the pipeline.
  • 01:31:37
    just based on availability
  • 01:31:56
    I'm sorry?
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 01:31:57
    That type of natural gas would be blended into the pipelines?
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:32:02
    Yes.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 01:32:03
    Because you're not going to get enough out of the RWSA treatment plant.
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:32:09
    So we've been looking at this project with them, because currently they flare off their methane.
  • 01:32:15
    And it's a byproduct of what their process is to stabilize their digester solids.
  • 01:32:24
    it, you know, there is a possibility that we could develop a project for renewable natural gas, you know, initial, initial, you know, it's not, it's not a lot, but we're trying to make sure it's feasible.
  • 01:32:40
    Similarly, Western Virginia authorities, which serves the greater Roanoke area, partnered with the private gas company Roanoke gas, and they've got this system down, they produce renewable natural gas,
  • 01:32:54
    It's a bigger treatment plant than Rivanna's.
  • 01:32:57
    So there's not as much opportunity.
  • 01:33:00
    I can't remember the numbers of how much they actually furnished or how many households, but it is real.
  • 01:33:06
    And they're currently doing it.
  • 01:33:07
    We actually went and visited the Western Virginia Authority.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 01:33:13
    And just to clarify, the benefit of renewable natural gas is that the sourcing of it reduces carbon, but the burning of it still
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:33:23
    No, then you don't burn it then.
  • 01:33:28
    So instead of flaring off, you produce this product that then is piped into the pipeline.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 01:33:36
    Which is then burned.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 01:33:38
    Right.
  • 01:33:39
    So the end user is still emitting carbon from the renewable natural gas?
• • SPEAKER_04
  • 01:33:44
    It depends, right?
  • 01:33:50
    I mean, I don't know how furnaces work, but... Yeah, well, it's renewable.
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:33:54
    It's the net amount.
  • 01:33:56
    Yeah, it's reduced.
• • SPEAKER_04
  • 01:33:57
    Right, it's reduced, but it's still not... And that's factored into our model.
• • Michael Payne
  • 01:34:02
    With the green and blue hydrogen, that DOE award was through the Inflation Reduction Act and Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.
  • 01:34:10
    Is it known if the Trump administration is going to be cutting those contracts and funds or is that TBD?
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:34:17
    It's to be determined.
• • Michael Payne
  • 01:34:19
    I think we should assume it will be cut.
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:34:21
    I haven't heard anything.
  • 01:34:23
    I think two days later it will get restored.
  • 01:34:25
    I don't know.
  • 01:34:26
    I don't know.
  • 01:34:27
    It's certainly something we need to watch.
  • 01:34:29
    It won't have been fired in the meantime.
  • 01:34:32
    and like hydrogen fuel unit costs for renewable natural gas are higher than natural gas but are expected to decline with availability in the mid to long term.
  • 01:34:45
    So looking at our 2030 goal and these are the various pathways that they looked at our consultant.
  • 01:34:55
    We are on track
  • 01:34:57
    to meet our 2030 goal of 45%.
  • 01:35:02
    And the ones that are kind of grayed out are really what I'm going to talk about in the 2050, but I left them on this slide just so you can get a flavor of the different pathways that could something looked at.
  • 01:35:14
    But currently, we're on track with our energy efficiency and our current carbon offsets we buy to meet the goal.
  • 01:35:31
    For 2050, we add in light decarbonization.
  • 01:35:38
    It's still a little grayed out because it doesn't quite meet the 2050 goal.
  • 01:35:41
    But light decarbonization includes energy efficiency, renewable natural gas at 22%, and green hydrogen is the one that's circled.
  • 01:35:51
    And with no carbon offsets, and we would meet the goal of 82%.
  • 01:35:55
    So we don't quite meet it.
  • 01:35:57
    If you look at the moderate,
  • 01:35:59
    and so on.
  • 01:36:19
    15% blended green hydrogen and then some carbon offsets to meet your goal.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 01:36:26
    Can we run a new RNG with hydrogen?
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:36:31
    Yes.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 01:36:33
    What is the significance to the dotted circle?
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:36:36
    That saying that this is assuming we use green versus slow more desirable than the blue, the way it's processed.
  • 01:36:45
    It doesn't matter which one, frankly, but we circle the green.
  • 01:37:00
    So the cost comparison on the current track, and we were very conservative when we looked at this pricing because in the last several years, the ONM budget and gas, we experienced about a 7% increase on the last several years every year just due to increases in cost.
  • 01:37:20
    But we did factor in an inflation area just to be very conservative of 3% per year.
  • 01:37:27
    Based on the current track and the other ones because they don't need to be considered to meet the 2030 goal, the estimates about $80.70 on the monthly average bill in 2030.
  • 01:37:40
    And then if you look at 2050, the current track without any decarbonization, your
  • 01:37:50
    your normal bill is $360.30 and then you have to add in to meet fuel decarbonization about with green hydrogen about 27.4% on top of that are about $90.
• • Michael Payne
  • 01:38:04
    How much is assumed to be driven by with the increase of electrification there's just going to be a smaller customer base over time?
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:38:15
    There is some of that factored in, because we did have some numbers of how it's declining a little bit, so there is some of that factored in.
  • 01:38:30
    Now we move into next steps.
  • 01:38:32
    These are some of the next steps you saw as we recommended during last year's rate report, and I wanted to give you an update on where we are with them.
  • 01:38:39
    We established a new fee structure to disincentivize new gas connections.
  • 01:38:44
    And the revenue source from this will fund the expansion of new utility energy efficiency programs.
  • 01:38:50
    This was implemented in January of 2025.
  • 01:38:52
    It's a little early to start evaluating whether this is effective or not, because we've only had two new requests in two months.
  • 01:39:01
    So it's just a little early to evaluate.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 01:39:03
    And that was the adjustment to $430 or whatever.
• • 01:39:05
    $340? $340.
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:39:11
    We developed a new weatherization program, which I'm going to tell you on an upcoming slide what that looks like, and it's supposed to be launched next month.
  • 01:39:20
    We evaluated the existing rebates.
  • 01:39:22
    We increased the value of the attic installation rebate in February.
  • 01:39:26
    We deleted the tankless water heater in July.
  • 01:39:30
    We're ongoing partnering with the Office of Sustainability Select annual carbon offset projects.
  • 01:39:37
    We increased the frequency of the energy saving tree program.
  • 01:39:41
    We only previously did it in the spring, and we're now we conducted that last October as well.
  • 01:39:48
    And I might want to point out, based on a comment that it's not the intent of this program to use this to reduce the community's emissions, even though it will inherently reduce them.
  • 01:40:02
    It's just intended to be a good will effort to promote energy efficiency because it
  • 01:40:07
    The planting, if the tree is planted in such a way, it will provide more shade for the house, thus less energy required.
  • 01:40:14
    And we also are promoting our safe digging practices with that program.
  • 01:40:23
    We're also looking at emerging technology, specifically community geothermal.
  • 01:40:29
    There's 11 projects that were selected by the Department of Energy to receive funding recently and six of the locations are in
  • 01:40:37
    urban suburban communities for located in rural communities.
  • 01:40:41
    And one is located in a remote isolated community.
  • 01:40:44
    Total of $13 million have been allocated for some of these pilot programs.
  • 01:40:48
    We're actually closely watching a one in Massachusetts, which is a geothermal community geothermal project serving sporty homes.
  • 01:40:59
    It's a private gas utility that's instigating that
  • 01:41:04
    and we're kind of interested in how that works out and the cost.
  • 01:41:09
    But it's just developing.
  • 01:41:14
    Some next steps for energy efficiency initiatives.
  • 01:41:17
    We're starting a new outreach campaign that will be similar to our gas safety campaign, where we're just getting more of the target audience by targeting on demand streaming ads and TV commercials to try to get them to
  • 01:41:33
    take us up on energy efficiency programs that we have, especially the free one, you know, because that's one that has a lot of opportunities people can take advantage of.
  • 01:41:44
    We're promoting Charlottesville gas incentives.
  • 01:41:46
    I'm more excited about this on the newly launched energy resource hub that was led by our office of sustainability.
  • 01:41:54
    In fact, all of our gas incentives are already out there on that hub.
  • 01:41:59
    We're also, this is associated with the new program we're getting ready to launch.
  • 01:42:04
    We're increasing the awareness of attic insulation by offering online attic insulation self-assessment tool.
  • 01:42:11
    This is in partnership with Lee.
  • 01:42:13
    This goes to a lot of the people saying when they've got houses before 1970, they've got adequate attic insulation.
  • 01:42:19
    So we're going to tell them how they can measure their attic insulation in their attic and see if it's adequate or not.
  • 01:42:26
    and hopefully incentivize them to take advantage of our attic insulation rebate of $500 and in combination with the 30% tax credit, they can almost get free insulation.
  • 01:42:38
    So we're hopeful about that.
  • 01:42:42
    And we're also exploring custom incentives tailored for specific customer segments, which is multifamily and commercial customers.
  • 01:42:54
    Next steps that are recommended for the 2030-45% is invest in the energy efficiency initiatives and maintain the 25% carbon offsets.
  • 01:43:04
    2050, we would track renewable natural gas availability, including further investigating the opportunities with Rivanna.
  • 01:43:14
    We would monitor the development and deployment of the nation's hydrogen hubs, especially the mid-Atlantic one that's so close to us.
  • 01:43:22
    and we continue to do research on carbon offsets.
  • 01:43:25
    We've monitored the emerging technologies and potentially implemented them once they become economically feasible and a little more further, more mature and we're going to collaborate with the Office of Sustainability to track other decarbonization strategies that can be considered for Charlottesville gas.
  • 01:43:45
    and if you guys have any additional questions.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 01:43:48
    Yes, so we have, you know, about, you know, like about 20 minutes because we do have a closed session item that we can do that from about 6 to 6.30.
  • 01:44:00
    So if we could kind of quickly have our comments and questions, I'll start with you this time, Michael.
• • Michael Payne
  • 01:44:05
    It's true.
  • 01:44:06
    Well, just one question.
  • 01:44:07
    What was the cost of this study?
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:44:08
    Look at that.
  • 01:44:13
    The cost of the study was a little over $250,000.
  • 01:44:17
    And then our listening sessions were used to different consultants.
  • 01:44:21
    They were a little over $50,000.
  • 01:44:22
    Okay.
• • Michael Payne
  • 01:44:25
    I'll just say, you know, my comments, I think the study clearly shows that the utility is very well run compared to other utilities in Virginia.
  • 01:44:39
    professionally and competently run, has much better performance than any other peer utilities.
  • 01:44:44
    And it shows that there are some things going on in terms of efficiency that other utilities aren't doing.
  • 01:44:51
    But I don't think this study kind of matched my expectation for what I thought we were looking for, and maybe that's just the scope of the study.
  • 01:45:00
    But to me, like the big question is, with
  • 01:45:04
    and the Virginia Clean Economy Act changes at the federal level, which maybe you're gone now, but at some point we'll come back.
  • 01:45:12
    You know, electrification is kind of the future.
  • 01:45:15
    And if we're in a situation where, you know, those trends happening at state federal level, UVAs plan to decarbonize, I think, is it 2030 or 2050?
  • 01:45:26
    I can't remember, I shouldn't know.
  • 01:45:29
    But regardless,
  • 01:45:32
    The utility will be in a position, not five years from now, but maybe 30 years from now, where there's a much smaller customer base, electrification has cleared the future, and we have a smaller customer base paying a ton of money, and there are some stranded assets for investments that were made to maybe feed areas like UVA that are no longer using it.
  • 01:45:49
    And I think if that is happening 30 years from now, I feel like the city has to start planning now to prepare for that moment.
  • 01:45:57
    And I kind of thought those are kind of the big question for the city to solve because that's a very complex question that'll take a lot of time.
  • 01:46:06
    And this study just didn't really get it that to me.
  • 01:46:09
    I mean, I think there's, because to me, the big question is electrification.
  • 01:46:13
    What can we do to incentivize it?
  • 01:46:15
    There are some innovative models like DC, other cities that have used a surcharge on natural gas bills to fund sustainable utilities, which are incentivizing electrification and efficiency.
  • 01:46:27
    Is that something that we could model or do?
  • 01:46:31
    And I just think, especially for the cost,
  • 01:46:35
    There's not a whole lot of future action I'm seeing coming from this study.
  • 01:46:40
    It's kind of just more a confirmation of the utility is well run and we should just kind of like tweak some of the very positive things we're doing, but not really thinking about kind of significant system change for the utility.
  • 01:46:54
    I think especially looking at what's happening at the federal level,
  • 01:46:57
    I think we just have to be looking that ambitious at a local level.
  • 01:47:01
    And so, again, I think there's a lot more we need to look at in terms of incentivizing electrification, looking at models of places that have used surcharges to fund electrification and energy efficiency work, as well as, obviously, just within our city-owned profile of buildings that we have direct control over, looking at how do we electrify those as well.
  • 01:47:25
    and maybe it just wasn't the scope of the study, but that obviously is just not present here, is my concern.
  • 01:47:35
    And I will reiterate, I think we would probably be better off to use that around $400,000 a year in local programs or that's the Office of Sustainability or partnerships with LEAP, I don't know, but I think we'll just see more direct, clear benefits to use that money in that way for local electrification and efficiency.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 01:47:56
    Thank you.
  • 01:47:58
    I have a lot of this in concerns that Councillor Payne has and in fact I went back and watched the council meeting from March 2023 when this study was first discussed to see what was the original scope and what was the original intent and there were several slides from the consultant that included energy efficiency electrification, carbon offsets, renewable natural gas, certified natural gas and hydrogen and we got some of those but then in the
  • 01:48:24
    and
  • 01:48:41
    It said that part of the scope was to try and get the city as a whole to decarbonize and then part of it was talking about trying to get the utility to decarbonize and those are two very different things and so there's some
  • 01:48:59
    Some of the things we're talking about, you're totally right, you can't control end user behavior.
  • 01:49:03
    So how is that a factor of this study, but a broader look at what happens when electrification takes over is something that is going to affect our gas utility, not something you affect, but what affects you.
  • 01:49:18
    So those are kind of missing pieces.
  • 01:49:23
    And if we're looking at decarbonizing the city of Charlottesville itself, our municipal structure, how much natural gas do we use to run our buildings?
  • 01:49:37
    Do we know that?
  • 01:49:39
    I can get you that information.
  • 01:49:41
    Because that's something that they're suggesting, but if it's minimal, if we're mostly electric anyway, that's not going to be a huge step towards
  • 01:49:49
    No, we're not.
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:49:51
    I know my building on 4th Street is natural gas.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 01:49:54
    Yeah, so it would be great to know how much of a debt that would take out in this building's natural gas.
  • 01:50:00
    Okay, that is good to know.
  • 01:50:03
    And then the legal analysis question, I think that's something that we definitely should get clarification on, like how much power
  • 01:50:12
    as a municipal entity, do we have to make those judgment calls?
  • 01:50:17
    There was also no mention of one of the things that in the original scope was discussed was a discussion about equity and I searched in the document for that word and it only came up once when it was talking about home equity.
  • 01:50:30
    So that also kind of wasn't
  • 01:50:33
    So I'd be interested to find out what they worked on there, if at all, or why, again, the scope of it changed.
  • 01:50:44
    And I do have to say that, like Michael said, it is evidence that our utility is well run, and that is great.
  • 01:50:52
    We're already doing a lot of the things that they would have suggested.
  • 01:50:57
    I wonder what have we learned in the last two years since the study was proposed that we maybe didn't know already and what's what was the value of the the it's presented very nicely was it the was the investment did we learn anything surprising which I guess is not you might not and that's always a risk you take when you invest in something like this but was there anything surprising that stuck out that made it maybe worth the full
  • 01:51:26
    The full effort.
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:51:31
    Some things for me were that, you know, I always envision renewable natural gas would be readily available, right?
  • 01:51:39
    So I was a little surprised it's only 20%, frankly.
  • 01:51:43
    But maybe that's because of where it comes from.
  • 01:51:45
    But I didn't really have any idea on that.
  • 01:51:49
    And I knew you could only blend up to a certain amount of the hydrogen, but I didn't know it was 15%.
• • SPEAKER_04
  • 01:51:56
    and all.
• • SPEAKER_26
  • 01:51:57
    So even though, you know, other, other like, you know, it's widely used for transit buses, right, which don't have the same effect.
  • 01:52:08
    And I'm hopeful, though, with that said, that the tech, you know, that the, and yet they only had to base it the 15% based on the current technology.
  • 01:52:19
    So you're hopeful that some sort of nozzles or something gets developed associated with hydrogen that will allow you to use hydrogen at a greater mix and still be able to meet the end user's needs, which could help too.
  • 01:52:38
    But I don't know, that's just kind of this guy stuff.
  • 01:52:41
    So they can only base it on what they know.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 01:52:44
    Yeah, that would be interesting.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 01:52:46
    Sure.
  • 01:52:47
    Yeah, it was also just any kind of legislative suggestions would have been nice on what we could do moving forward.
  • 01:52:53
    Okay.
• • SPEAKER_22
  • 01:52:55
    Yeah.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 01:52:56
    Brian?
  • 01:53:01
    Yeah, I mean it's, I would just echo the other things that were said.
  • 01:53:09
    I think maybe my expectations were just not in alignment with what reality was going to be.
  • 01:53:26
    and I'm pulling some of these things from memory but it seems like in the last presentation you gave us maybe six months or a year ago there was a lot of discussion about what the law requires in terms of if you have a gas system you can't just turn it off and I think that there was a lot of I had this sort of
  • 01:53:50
    I hope that basically we could do something like that, like, okay, we've got over the course of the next 30 years, we're going to get rid of the system.
  • 01:54:04
    I guess all we're left with, I guess we can't do that, just to sit out because of the way the law is written with the General Assembly unless we get that law changed.
  • 01:54:13
    And so we have to rely on incentives for people to make choices.
  • 01:54:18
    And I'm not sure incentives are going to get us out of the climate crisis the way that
  • 01:54:25
    or headed into.
  • 01:54:26
    And so I'm a little, I don't know, pessimistic about what we're going to be able to do with our gas system.
  • 01:54:37
    I don't think hydrogen or RNG are things that are really going to get us there.
  • 01:54:43
    I think they seem a little gimmicky to me, not saying that about your presentation or anything, but the ideas
  • 01:54:51
    maybe with our buses we can we can also work on that but you know I think some of it just maybe I do agree with I think we should be looking at this carbon offset motion if we're spending you know
  • 01:55:07
    I would also like to know more about the legal piece about
  • 01:55:26
    I don't know why I should have to care about that.
  • 01:55:29
    I mean, if I have a certain goal policy-wise, I don't want less CH4 burned in this area.
  • 01:55:39
    Why?
  • 01:55:39
    I have to care about what Dominion says, but that must be something with the state government.
  • 01:55:45
    I don't know.
  • 01:55:48
    So I think there's more to be done.
  • 01:55:50
    I think that
  • 01:55:53
    Part of it was just, I know there's a lot of people in the community that are not happy with how things have turned out and I think it's with the study, I think it's just because I don't think the expectations were right from the beginning.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 01:56:12
    Lloyd?
  • 01:56:13
    A couple of thoughts.
  • 01:56:14
    The first thought I have is that it seems to me that if we adopt the idea that our low hanging fruit are the things that we can actually control ourselves, the first thing is to do whatever we can do to electrify city buildings just as soon as possible.
  • 01:56:33
    Now obviously we don't necessarily, that doesn't mean you rip out a brand new HVAC system you put in last year, but
  • 01:56:42
    and
  • 01:56:58
    what we really sort of need is a buyer's guide some advice to homeowners about how they can get started on some of these things and I think that's a really good first step so the one thing that is not that I didn't see in my perusing of the site and maybe it's beyond the capabilities or maybe it's simply not something that's worth having you all do
  • 01:57:28
    I think it would be very helpful to homeowners and recognize we've got many thousands of homeowners in Charlottesville who I think would jump at the opportunity to get on the bandwagon here if it could be made easier.
  • 01:57:45
    I think if we could figure out a way so that somebody could go, for example, have a, you know, watch a presentation online or have a meeting, you know,
  • 01:57:55
    and
  • 01:58:14
    We're about to replace our furnace.
  • 01:58:16
    Wouldn't it be cool if we could put in a geothermal system and then start looking at the costs and the benefits and so on and realize that it may make sense for brand new construction, but it's not going to make sense for somebody trying to retrofit.
  • 01:58:31
    And there are conversations like that and break points that people, I think, kind of need to, they need some guidance on how to think about the problems.
  • 01:58:42
    and if we could figure out a way perhaps to put some of that into the Energy Resource Hub, that might be a good idea.
  • 01:58:52
    But the idea of how do we help people get started?
  • 01:58:59
    Actually, I think there are an awful lot of people in Charlottesville who are
  • 01:59:04
    in houses that were built before 1970, who don't understand exactly where their problems are.
  • 01:59:12
    We have a system for doing energy audits free of charge for folks at under 120% AMI, but I gotta tell you, the folks at 200% AMI are burning an awful lot of methane, they don't need to be burning, and they don't even realize the extent to which they're contributing to the problem.
  • 01:59:31
    So if we can think more about how we can
  • 01:59:34
    It can make it easier for private citizens to do the things that we want them to do.
  • 01:59:40
    It's not a matter.
  • 01:59:42
    We may not even have to offer incentives to do it.
  • 01:59:45
    Just make it easier for them to do it.
  • 01:59:48
    The Energy Resource Office is a good first start.
  • 01:59:50
    I'd like to see them more of that continue.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 01:59:54
    I just had a couple of quick comments to concur with my colleagues.
  • 01:59:59
    And something that Natalie, in particular, Lloyd mentioned, it's about what we're doing, you know, to kind of be kind of the forerunner, you know, so people can be that role model in that, you know, if we choose a day 2040 or so, that all of the city buildings are
  • 02:00:23
    I think that Lloyd mentioned bandwagon.
  • 02:00:29
    I think that we can get more people on the bandwagon if we broaden the incentives.
  • 02:00:35
    and so on.
  • 02:00:56
    the Forerun and a lot of things, but a lot of cities are doing different things that we could model and to kind of keep that ongoing.
  • 02:01:05
    And I know we have a staff and things to do that now.
  • 02:01:08
    That would be great.
  • 02:01:10
    Let me see.
  • 02:01:11
    I'm trying to go through my notes here.
  • 02:01:16
    And the equity issue, you know, I think that that messaging is real important because when I'm talking to my
  • 02:01:27
    The residents in particular in the community of color and low wealth, this is, even though it's probably impacting them more, it's not at the forefront of what their concerns to me is about.
  • 02:01:42
    I think that the messaging needs to be pretty pinpoint.
  • 02:01:47
    And if we can't do it, I know that there are some groups out there that can help us with that messaging that's known to them.
  • 02:01:56
    Not that we're not trusted, but they may trust them a little bit more on things like this.
  • 02:02:03
    Anyway, so it's a good set.
  • 02:02:07
    I'm glad that we're doing well as far as our department and what we're doing.
  • 02:02:12
    I think that if we were to start this study now, what we know, we would probably write the parameters and guidelines for it a lot different now than we would when
  • 02:02:26
    who was first started.
  • 02:02:27
    So Sam, this was just for this discussion.
  • 02:02:32
    I know it's a lot of notes.
  • 02:02:33
    I hope somebody was taking them all.
• • Sam Sanders
  • 02:02:37
    We'll come back.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:02:38
    Good.
  • 02:02:39
    Thank you.
  • 02:02:40
    Thank you so much.
  • 02:02:41
    Thank you so much.
  • 02:02:43
    Is that it for now?

5. CLOSED MEETING

• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:02:44
    We're going into closed session soon.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 02:02:49
    Pursuant to Section 2.2-3712 of the Virginia Code, I move that the City Council close this open meeting and convene in the closed session as authorized by the Virginia Freedom of Information Act as follows.
  • 02:03:02
    Under Virginia Code, Section 2.2-3711A7, for briefing by staff members pertaining to actual litigation, where such briefing and open meeting would adversely affect the negotiating or litigating posture of the public body.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:03:16
    Second.
  • 02:03:17
    Okay, can we vote?
  • 02:03:20
    Well, we're going to close session.
  • 02:03:21
    We'll be back in about 30 minutes.
  • 02:06:47
    Good evening.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 02:07:00
    I move that this council certify by a recorded vote that to the best of each council member's knowledge, only public business matters lawfully exempted from the open meeting requirements of the Virginia Freedom of Information Act and identified in the motion convening the closed session or heard, discussed, or considered in the closed session.
• • SPEAKER_13
  • 02:07:19
    Second.
  • 02:07:20
    Okay.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:07:23
    Great.
  • 02:07:24
    Thank you.
  • 02:07:24
    We are

6. Moment of Silence

• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:07:30
    Now I'm going to have a moment of silence.
  • 02:07:46
    Thank you.

7. Announcements

• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:07:47
    Any announcements?
• • Michael Payne
  • 02:07:52
    I will make an announcement before the My Help List contest.
  • 02:07:58
    Entry in 150 words or less sharing writing.
  • 02:08:01
    Why it's important to help people because or list five things you have done to help someone or how you can help someone.
  • 02:08:07
    All students throughout Charlottesville and surrounding counties in grade categories K through 2, 3 through 5, 6 through 8, and 9 through 12 are eligible.
  • 02:08:14
    One winner from each grade category will be chosen and win a $100 cash prize with gathering to be held in their honor.
  • 02:08:22
    Winners will be announced on NBC29 and alexand.com.
  • 02:08:25
    You can enter from March 10th through April 18th of this year, and you can drop or send all entries to Jones, Heading and Air, my help list, 633 Rose Hill Drive, Charlottesville, Virginia, 22903.
  • 02:08:40
    Please include name, address, and phone number.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:08:43
    Alexand is always busy, so he's always got some good things going on, so thank you.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 02:08:50
    My announcement is that this Sunday, March 9th at 12 p.m.
  • 02:08:54
    is the next neighborhood community walk.
  • 02:08:57
    This week we're going to be checking out the Rose Hill neighborhood.
  • 02:09:00
    It's a couple miles walking around meeting new neighbors, getting to explore maybe a neighborhood you're not as familiar with or your own neighborhood and welcoming new people to it.
  • 02:09:10
    It's the second Sunday of every month a different neighborhood.
  • 02:09:13
    If you want to find out more you can check out the
  • 02:09:16
    BikePed Advisory Committee website.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:09:20
    But the... Is Rose Hill this week?
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 02:09:23
    Rose Hill is this week.
  • 02:09:24
    Next month in April it'll be UVA Grounds and then May will be Woollen Mills.
  • 02:09:29
    There's the full list on the website also.
  • 02:09:31
    It's really fun.
  • 02:09:32
    It's great to get out and stretch your legs and meet new people.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:09:35
    The best time to do UVA Grounds is like June and July when it's just kind of... That's when we used to go walk in by the campuses.
  • 02:09:44
    They'll be different.
  • 02:09:45
    I just just want to express that it was a transit accident today.
  • 02:09:49
    I know that there was a lot of coverage over that.
  • 02:09:53
    I hope that everyone is okay with that.
• • Sam Sanders
  • 02:09:56
    Last report that I got, no injuries, but definitely property damage and definitely something to be concerned about.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:10:03
    We now have some, any other announcements?
  • 02:10:06
    We have some proclamations.

8. Charlottesville Area Association of REALTORS® (CAAR) 100th Year

• • Lloyd Snook
  • 02:10:09
    So proclamation celebration of the 100th anniversary of CAR, whereas the Charlottesville Area Association of Realtors, or CAR, has been the leading voice for real estate in Central Virginia since its establishment on June 22, 1925, representing today more than 1,300 real estate professionals and affiliate members.
  • 02:10:32
    And whereas for a century, CAR has made significant contributions to the Charlottesville real estate industry by advocating for the protection of private property rights and providing its members with the tools and technology needed to achieve expertise in serving the needs of their customers and clients with the highest standards of professionalism, ethics, and excellence.
  • 02:10:53
    And whereas reflecting on its past, the association recognizes the importance of continuing to embed diversity, equity, and inclusion
  • 02:11:02
    and
  • 02:11:21
    and providing its members with the resources and support they need to navigate the ever-changing and growing real estate landscape.
  • 02:11:28
    Now, therefore, be it resolved that the Charlottesville City Council hereby recognizes the Charlottesville Area Association of Realtors in celebration of its 100th year of service in Central Virginia and in the city of Charlottesville.
  • 02:11:41
    Signed and sealed this 4th day of March 2025 by one Diego Wade Mayor.
  • 02:11:46
    Somebody from Carr here.
• • SPEAKER_23
  • 02:11:55
    Thank you so much.
  • 02:11:55
    We're very proud to be part of the community and we really appreciate this.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 02:12:21
    America, Red Cross Month.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:12:24
    I'm doing a very cross.
  • 02:12:25
    You can do the social service.

9. Social Work Month

• • Brian Pinkston
  • 02:12:30
    So I have a proclamation for Social Work Month 2025, Compassion in Action.
  • 02:12:40
    whereas people have entered the social work profession for generations because they genuinely care about helping improve the welfare of people, families, communities, and our nation.
  • 02:12:52
    and whereas this year's Social Work Month theme, social work, compassion plus action, embodies the fact that social workers go through years of education and training so that they have the skills and expertise to transform their care for others into action that brings positive results.
  • 02:13:11
    and whereas the social work profession has worked for generations to improve living conditions in our community and our nation with social workers successfully pushing for social security, a 40 hour work week, Medicare and a minimum wage and whereas social workers work in all parts of our society including schools, social services agencies, veteran centers and government
  • 02:13:36
    whereas social workers are at the forefront of pressing issues facing our nation, including increased needs for mental health care, especially for children and adolescents, substance use disorder treatment, and increasing economic and political division.
  • 02:13:53
    Social workers continue to stand ready to assist our nation in overcoming present and future challenges.
  • 02:14:00
    Whereas social workers are one of the largest groups of mental health care providers in the United States and are pressing for a social work interstate licensing compact that will improve mental health care delivery in our nation.
  • 02:14:14
    And whereas research proves the presence of social workers in schools, hospitals, and assisted living facilities improves education and health outcomes and quality of life for students, patients, and residents.
  • 02:14:29
    Now therefore, in recognition of the numerous contributions made by social workers, the Charlottesville City Council proclaims the month of March 2025 as social work month, and call upon community members to join in celebration and support of the social work profession, and this year's theme of compassion plus action.
  • 02:14:51
    Sign and seal this fourth day of March 2025, Juan Diego Wade Mayor.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:14:56
    So I know we have the new director of social services here, but there's an event in a couple of weeks that I'm going to read that as well, but you can present it to Mr. Henry.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 02:15:12
    I'm privileged to be on the, come on down, privileged to be on the social services advisory board and got to meet you, sir, I guess last week and we're just really proud and happy that you're here with the city.
• • SPEAKER_13
  • 02:15:24
    Thank you so much.
  • 02:15:25
    I really appreciate you all.
  • 02:15:27
    Thank you.
• • Sam Sanders
  • 02:15:29
    Does he have a name?
  • 02:15:33
    Yeah, his name is Leon Henry for anyone that has not known.

10. American Red Cross Month

• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:15:42
    and I have a proclamation for American Ray Cross month, whereas during
  • 02:15:51
    was during American Red Cross Month in March.
  • 02:15:55
    We recognized the compassion of people in the city of Charlottesville and reaffirmed our commitment to care for one another in times of crisis, whereas the American Red Cross is synonymous with helping people and being enduring for more than 140 years.
  • 02:16:12
    This generous spirit is woven into the fabric of our community and advances humanitarian
  • 02:16:19
    Legacy of the American Red Cross founder Clara Barton who nobly dedicated herself to alleviating suffering
  • 02:16:29
    whereas kind-hearted individuals in our community exemplify a Barden's commitment as they set up through the American Red Cross, the Central Virginia chapter to provide a beacon of hope to our neighbors in need.
  • 02:16:43
    Now therefore, the City of Charlottesville recognizes March 2025 as American Red Cross Month and we encourage all community members to join
  • 02:16:53
    in his noble humanitarian efforts to strengthen an uplifted community signed this day, March 4th, 2025, by Juan Diego Wade.
  • 02:17:02
    And I'll be sure that no one's here from the American Request, right?
  • 02:17:06
    I'll make sure that they get this to do great work.
  • 02:17:08
    They have a program in a few weeks that I'll present this to as well.
  • 02:17:12
    So we have one that I'm happy that
  • 02:17:17
    Zion Union Baptist Church, one that accepted me when I first got here.
  • 02:17:22
    I'm doing some tutoring and I see Ms.
  • 02:17:25
    Brian is here.
  • 02:17:26
    She was part of that for many years.
  • 02:17:29
    They are celebrating their 130 year anniversary.
  • 02:17:32
    and they're having a big program next Sunday at 2 p.m.
  • 02:17:36
    and I know that they will want people to come at 12.
  • 02:17:39
    His lunch is planned so please come out.
  • 02:17:43
    I know that they would like that and it's also multiple sclerosis education and wearing this month and we have an approximation for them as well.
  • 02:17:55
    So a lot of good things going on in our community.
  • 02:17:58
    We're glad that we can use this platform to uplift them and recognize them.

11. Community Matters

• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:18:03
    We're now at the opportunity for the first time for Community Matters.
  • 02:18:08
    And only one person have preregistered to speak, and we have opportunity for 15 more at this time.
  • 02:18:14
    And the first or only speaker is Ms.
  • 02:18:17
    Hawker.
• • SPEAKER_00
  • 02:18:25
    Good evening, my name is Nicole Hawker and yes, I am a Charlottesville City resident.
  • 02:18:30
    I would like to just first start by saying I am an advocate for wellness and mental health as a former social worker, a therapist locally here in Charlottesville and also in another state.
  • 02:18:42
    I am now the founder and executive director of a local nonprofit that focuses on physical health and wellness.
  • 02:18:49
    So again, I want to just thank you all, the City Council members for your time and dedication to this community.
  • 02:18:55
    I want to ensure that our community does make sure that we pay attention to not only our health and wellness, our emotional wellness, but also our physical wellness.
  • 02:19:05
    Without many of the interventions that are necessary, disparities continue to rise within health care costs, reduced workforce productivity, and then preventative health care.
  • 02:19:17
    needs for individuals in our community.
  • 02:19:20
    Many individuals who are underserved in our community lack affordable and culturally relevant wellness programming that includes physical activities.
  • 02:19:30
    We also recognize that there are food deserts in certain neighborhoods which make affordable produce and other resources readily available.
  • 02:19:40
    Many residents within marginalized communities also face higher levels of stress, anxiety and depression
  • 02:19:46
    which can be resolved by once again having culturally relevant places to work out and to also receive mental health resources and physical health activities.
  • 02:19:59
    I would also ask that you all will consider your ways, the ways in which you can partner with marginalized communities by supporting free and often time reduced resources and also partnering with local organizations
  • 02:20:13
    who provide those resources for our marginalized communities.
  • 02:20:17
    I would also submit that myself and many others in this community want to be part of strategic planning that emphasizes how do we make sure that marginalized individuals within our communities have the resources for their health and wellness, which includes physical health as well.
  • 02:20:36
    We can improve our outreach.
  • 02:20:38
    We can improve preventative measures to make sure that individuals receive wellness screenings, education and resources on the front end prior to needing medical treatments on the back end.
  • 02:20:53
    So once again, health disparities affect not just individuals, but they affect entire communities.
  • 02:21:00
    And so I'm asking that you all City Council prioritize wellness for everyone
  • 02:21:06
    within our community.
  • 02:21:08
    Every resident deserves the opportunity to live a thriving, vibrant, healthy lifestyle.
  • 02:21:15
    And I ask that we all work together to make this more accessible for everyone in our neighborhoods.
  • 02:21:21
    Thank you.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:21:22
    Thank you so much, Nicole.
  • 02:21:23
    And thank you for all you do for the community and the city.
  • 02:21:26
    I know you serve on committees and things.
  • 02:21:27
    So just thank you.
  • 02:21:29
    Thank you.
  • 02:21:29
    All you do.
• • SPEAKER_00
  • 02:21:30
    Thank you.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:21:33
    We have opportunity for 15 other people to speak at this moment.
  • 02:21:38
    Anyone else would like to speak now?
  • 02:21:41
    Yes.
• • SPEAKER_01
  • 02:21:46
    Hi, friends.
  • 02:21:47
    Jason Halbert, 2633 Jefferson Park Circle.
  • 02:21:50
    I sat in on the reports earlier and was happy to hear your comments.
  • 02:21:55
    I'm very pleased with the direction you're heading.
  • 02:21:57
    Just a few points, and my points are for myself.
  • 02:22:01
    I work for
  • 02:22:03
    a foundation that does work in this area.
  • 02:22:05
    So these are just my own comments.
  • 02:22:08
    On the solid waste, I think you do want to disincentivize the, incentivize recycling and disincentivize the bigger containers and more pickup.
  • 02:22:21
    And I think your comments were all right on point and I don't want to pay or subsidize other people.
  • 02:22:27
    What I would do is index it
  • 02:22:29
    It's a core service for the city and the citizens, and so you pay half, we pay half, and keep it going that way, so that way you're raising it up as it goes.
  • 02:22:40
    On the carbon, the carbonization study for the Charlottesville gas utility, this has long been an issue, and I'm glad to see C3 and the city working on this together in a proactive way.
  • 02:22:55
    I'm not a fan of carbon offsets for all the reasons you started to go into.
  • 02:22:58
    I think that they're risky.
  • 02:23:00
    Their integrity is questionable.
  • 02:23:03
    And you would be better off investing the funds locally.
  • 02:23:06
    You'll create jobs.
  • 02:23:07
    You'll support nonprofits you already know.
  • 02:23:10
    It's just reinvesting in the community.
  • 02:23:11
    It's a really good idea.
  • 02:23:13
    I've seen it work over the last 20 years directly with grants and things that we do.
  • 02:23:19
    Besides affordable housing and the cost of housing,
  • 02:23:23
    I think, you know, in the low minimum wage, I think the next most important thing is the energy burden people have.
  • 02:23:30
    And so if we can reduce that energy burden by investing in programs that we already have, and energy efficiency is by far the lowest hanging fruit.
  • 02:23:40
    So anything the city can do to invest in that is great.
  • 02:23:44
    And I'll close by saying years and years ago I was on the Mears
  • 02:23:47
    Sustainability Committee, and we've proposed a lot of different things, some of which were enacted, some of which are collecting dust somewhere in City Hall.
  • 02:23:58
    And one of them was enacted is if you reduce your home's efficiency, or increase your home's efficiency by a certain amount with renovation and things like that, you can get half off your property tax.
  • 02:24:13
    and the Council passed that.
  • 02:24:14
    I did it.
  • 02:24:15
    It was great.
  • 02:24:15
    I saved a lot of money and it helped me do it.
  • 02:24:17
    And I think you could increase that or make it multiple years.
  • 02:24:21
    There's lots of things you could do to pull around with these energy efficiency programs.
  • 02:24:26
    So I encourage you to keep doing it.
  • 02:24:27
    Thank you.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:24:30
    Was that reduction for that one year or forever?
• • SPEAKER_01
  • 02:24:33
    Just one year.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:24:34
    No.
• • SPEAKER_01
  • 02:24:34
    I tried forever.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:24:36
    I was like, wow.
  • 02:24:39
    Are there others that want to answer?
• • SPEAKER_07
  • 02:24:46
    Good evening.
  • 02:24:48
    My name is Graham McClain.
  • 02:24:49
    I'm a county resident, the director of the Audubon Foundation and the chair of the Community Climate Collaborative, or C3 Board.
  • 02:24:58
    I'm not going to be as eloquent or as relaxed as Jason is.
  • 02:25:01
    I want to thank you all for the opportunity to speak to you for a few minutes about also about the city's methane gas utility decarbonization study.
  • 02:25:11
    First of all, I want to quickly thank
  • 02:25:13
    the council and staff for its commitment to carbon neutrality and the subsequent call for a study to decarbonize the methane gas utility.
  • 02:25:21
    I also, as was already done this evening by multiple folks, I want to recognize that it is an excellent gas utility.
  • 02:25:30
    That's not in question.
  • 02:25:32
    I also want to thank staff for building upon what has proved to be a deficient study by exploring additional energy efficiency and electrification measures.
  • 02:25:43
    With that said, and I heard this from many of you, we must acknowledge that we have a long way to go before we have a path to decarbonization.
  • 02:25:50
    And I was happy to hear that a lot of you agreed.
  • 02:25:55
    You have all received or will receive C3's recommendation.
  • 02:25:58
    I will not reiterate those point for point.
  • 02:26:02
    Instead, I want to make three comments.
  • 02:26:04
    First of all, number one is commit to a real plan.
  • 02:26:07
    I heard this from a number of you as well.
  • 02:26:10
    Unfortunately, the completed study was not a decarbonization plan.
  • 02:26:13
    It was a carbon offset plan.
  • 02:26:16
    After executing upon staff and C3's near-term recommendations in learning from them,
  • 02:26:23
    I encourage you to develop a real plan for equitably moving our community off methane gas.
  • 02:26:29
    Execution of that plan will require investment and attribute meaningful decarbonization to energy efficiency and electrification.
  • 02:26:37
    Number two, again I heard this, I was happy to hear it, avoid offsets.
  • 02:26:42
    Offsets are an absolute last resort.
  • 02:26:46
    and should only be used when our city has exhausted all other decarbonization options locally and we are very, very far from that point.
  • 02:26:56
    The climate community in this city would prefer you invest every offset dollar into local energy efficiency and electrification rather than reporting suspect progress through offsets.
  • 02:27:08
    And finally, number three, I would say to leverage local expertise.
  • 02:27:13
    Pound for Pound, I'm not sure, I think you guys are all aware of this but our community has the deepest bench professional climate energy and renewable energy technical and policy expertise in the Commonwealth including C3, the Southern Environmental Law Center, Appalachian Voices and a slew of leading national renewable energy companies.
  • 02:27:36
    At the risk of offense, I must point out that this is the second climate related study in a row, which has been deeply problematic.
  • 02:27:44
    I encourage council and the city manager to require that staff consult this local expertise, as well as the city's sustainability department in the definition of scoping of any future climate related consulting projects.
  • 02:27:57
    Thank you very much.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:27:58
    Thank you so much for your comments.
  • 02:28:01
    Would anyone else like to speak at this time?
• • Chris Meyer
  • 02:28:06
    Good evening, Councillors.
  • 02:28:14
    I'd like to send you some comments.
  • 02:28:16
    My name is Chris Meier, excuse me, City Resident, 124 O'Clock Court.
  • 02:28:20
    I am speaking not my role as the Renewal Energy Alliance Board Chair, nor from the company I work with, which just does renewable energy.
  • 02:28:28
    I'm speaking only right at this moment as a resident.
  • 02:28:33
    Yes, I think, and I'm sorry for missing your earlier presentation today, but I found a lot of things problematic with the decarbonization plan.
  • 02:28:42
    I sent a lot of those comments to you.
  • 02:28:43
    I will reiterate some of my other colleagues' comments I just gave you.
  • 02:28:48
    You know, the solution is not through offsets.
  • 02:28:50
    I've been saying this for years to you all.
  • 02:28:52
    Let's not spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to burst petroleum.
  • 02:28:55
    Let's spend it here locally.
  • 02:28:56
    I was happy to see a project I worked on was at LEAP, the West Haven weatherization.
  • 02:29:03
    It's a great example of spending money locally, utilizing workforce here locally.
  • 02:29:08
    Some of those residents receive training through your workforce economic development program through Mr. Engel here.
  • 02:29:14
    It's a great example of what can be done.
  • 02:29:16
    Let's do more of that.
  • 02:29:17
    Again, spend the money differently.
  • 02:29:18
    I like to say I love the tree program.
  • 02:29:23
    It's not a carbon credit program.
  • 02:29:24
    You're already counting for that for other places.
  • 02:29:26
    Let's keep on doing the tree program, but please don't claim that it's reducing your emissions.
  • 02:29:34
    I was also struck, and I think it sounds like you all went over this, but 10% annual increases is not sustainable.
  • 02:29:41
    If that was going to be the plan, so we got to figure something else that's not a 10% annual increase in the bills for people to heat their homes and heat their water.
  • 02:29:51
    Finally, I do want to change course and put my hat on as a school board member and speaking as an individual as a school board member.
  • 02:29:59
    I think the schools are probably your second or third biggest client from Charlottesville gas perspective.
  • 02:30:05
    We saw our school energy use from natural gas go up by 6% between 2011 and 2023, according to your staff.
  • 02:30:15
    That was not okay.
  • 02:30:17
    It's not okay if I'm looking at a 10% annually increase in our cost also.
  • 02:30:22
    I request user respectively, we've talked about this in our CIP committees before, we need to decarbonize our school buildings, get the natural gas, the methane out of there please, get those appliances out, electrify them, geothermal heat pumps, et cetera, water heaters, et cetera.
  • 02:30:40
    I don't want to hook to an expensive
  • 02:30:43
    increase in energy costs going forward that this utility is probably going to see.
  • 02:30:48
    So we'd rather, again, than we talked about putting solar on our school, so we have clean energy that's hedged and fixed, and we can keep our costs down and spend that money on educating our students.
  • 02:30:58
    Thank you very much for your time.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:31:00
    Thank you.
  • 02:31:01
    Other speakers?
  • 02:31:01
    It's Caroline.
• • SPEAKER_25
  • 02:31:06
    Hello.
  • 02:31:07
    I'm Caroline Pugh.
  • 02:31:08
    I'm the policy director at the Community Climate Collaborative.
  • 02:31:11
    You all have heard a lot from us already so I'm going to keep it quick and say that I appreciate and support a lot of the comments that were made by council after the presentation as well as by folks just now in the room.
  • 02:31:23
    I think a couple of things that I want to emphasize again are focusing on how much folks are burdened by energy costs right now and wherever we can be redirecting local dollars to help with those costs while we're also addressing climate needs.
  • 02:31:36
    We need to be doing that and we need to be thinking creatively about
  • 02:31:39
    all of the options that we have to do that better.
  • 02:31:41
    The other thing that hasn't come up a lot is that natural gas is a health issue.
  • 02:31:48
    Having natural gas in homes is really detrimental to folks' health.
  • 02:31:50
    It causes increased asthma.
  • 02:31:52
    There's lots of studies that I'd be happy to send you about that.
  • 02:31:56
    So thinking about what we're going to do about that in the long term.
  • 02:32:00
    And then finally, again, and I know that this was mentioned already, but thinking about not wanting to have long term patchwork electrification where folks who are
  • 02:32:09
    don't have the resources to electrify, don't get to put solar on their roofs, are then left paying exorbitant natural gas bills way into the future.
  • 02:32:18
    And to be able to prevent that from happening, we need to start thinking now.
  • 02:32:22
    And I think that a lot of the points that you brought up of short-term actions are really great.
  • 02:32:27
    And what I would like to see is timelines figuring out who is responsible for what, how is the city going to do it, and putting
  • 02:32:35
    More specifics and targets on that so that it doesn't just drop off now that the study has been presented and we all just move on.
  • 02:32:41
    Thank you so much.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:32:42
    Thank you.
  • 02:32:44
    Would anyone else like to speak at this time?

12. Consent Agenda*

• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:32:50
    Okay, so we're going to now go to approve of the consent agenda items and there will be opportunity for others to speak at the end of the meeting.
• • Kyna Thomas
  • 02:33:04
    Consent Agenda number three minutes, February 18 regular meeting for resolution to approve reimbursement of $285,861.38 for the Buford Charlottesville Middle School Project second reading five ordinance for temporary aerial easement for the Verve Charlottesville PUD at 409 Stadium Road second reading
  • 02:33:32
    6.
  • 02:33:32
    Resolution Supporting Kendall Wood, Friendship Court Phase 3, Redevelopment Efforts 7.
  • 02:33:38
    Resolution to Appropriate Funding from the FY24 State Criminal Alien Assistance Program Grant for Albemarle, Charlottesville, Regional Jail $9,036, one of two readings 8.
  • 02:33:53
    Resolution for a Special Exception Permit at 818-820 East Jefferson Street
  • 02:34:01
    9.
  • 02:34:01
    Resolution for a special exception permit at 400 to 426 Garrett Street.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:34:12
    Can I get a motion for approval?
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 02:34:15
    I move approval of the consent agenda as just read by the clerk.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 02:34:19
    Second.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:34:20
    Can we vote?
  • 02:34:23
    Thank you, passes five to zero.

13. City Manager Report

• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:34:25
    The next item on the agenda is the city manager's report, Mr. Sanders.
• • Sam Sanders
  • 02:34:32
    Yes, so I don't have a report because you're only going to get tired of hearing from me later on this evening.
  • 02:34:36
    But I did invite the director of our Office of Economic Development, Chris Engel, to present their recent annual report.
• • Chris Engel
  • 02:34:47
    Good evening, counselors.
  • 02:34:48
    Chris Engel, director, Office of Economic Development.
  • 02:34:52
    Happy to be with you for a brief moment tonight to give you some highlights of our 2024 annual report, which was just released about a week or two ago.
  • 02:35:03
    You all should have a copy, a hard copy.
  • 02:35:06
    If not, it's in your box waiting for you.
  • 02:35:08
    We have limited hard copies, but most folks are being encouraged to access this via our website and or through social media.
  • 02:35:15
    So let me know if you didn't get it and we'll make sure you get one.
  • 02:35:20
    But I'm just going to go through a few of the highlights tonight, give you a little teaser, and hopefully that'll encourage you to go read the whole thing.
  • 02:35:27
    at your leisure.
  • 02:35:28
    But some of you might be wondering why we do an annual report.
  • 02:35:32
    It's not required.
  • 02:35:33
    City Manager doesn't say, hey, where's your report before you get to go do your next year's plan.
  • 02:35:40
    But we believe it's useful to pause and reflect every so often on an annual basis and kind of see what's working, what was impactful, what wasn't, and just kind of take a moment to recognize that and actually record it.
  • 02:35:56
    we were to create a time capsule we would want to put some things in it so this is what we would put in it if we were we were putting one in there so we're happy to present this is our 13th annual annual report and got a few slides here that was being finicky earlier so there we go okay
  • 02:36:17
    Some of the resolutions and some of these are not ideal.
  • 02:36:19
    They're not expected for you to be reading them in the audience.
  • 02:36:22
    These are screen grabs from the actual report.
  • 02:36:26
    So I'm just going to talk through a few of these.
  • 02:36:27
    You will remember that in 2023 we spent some time doing a strategic plan for economic development for the city and we launched that in early 24.
  • 02:36:40
    We're now into our second year, so 24 was our first year of implementation of that plan.
  • 02:36:45
    So the items I'm going to highlight for you today focus on each of those five key areas.
  • 02:36:51
    And to help us remember and always focus on those five key areas, we created this little strategic arrow.
  • 02:36:58
    This little blue item you see there on the screen.
  • 02:37:02
    If you come in our office, it's on the wall.
  • 02:37:04
    We look at it every day and remind ourselves of what those five elements are.
  • 02:37:07
    So I'm going to walk through an example of each of those that are in the report and give you just a little flavor of that.
  • 02:37:19
    So the first item, Equitable Entrepreneurship, was a recommendation from the plan.
  • 02:37:24
    Our consultant said, you're doing some good work in this space but you need to be a little more focused on it and actually would recommend dedicating a staff person to it.
  • 02:37:33
    So one of the first things we did was we redid a job description and came up with the Entrepreneurship Program Specialist, which is now filled by
  • 02:37:42
    Keith Grooms.
  • 02:37:43
    He joined our team a little over a year ago.
  • 02:37:46
    And Keith is an entrepreneur himself, a Charlottesville native, and was a user of OED Services, had engaged with several of our programs over the years.
  • 02:37:57
    So he knows them from that side as well.
  • 02:38:00
    And now he's on our team helping to represent those to the public and is doing a great job.
  • 02:38:06
    One of his primary responsibilities is leading a Go Startup program, which is a
  • 02:38:11
    Entry Level Course for folks that are thinking about a business in the city, don't know really where to start next, need to be connected to resources.
  • 02:38:19
    And Keith is leading that.
  • 02:38:20
    We had a number of folks go through that last year, about a dozen.
  • 02:38:26
    the first cohort of 2025 starts tomorrow night.
  • 02:38:29
    There'll be about eight folks gathered in city space for the next four weeks going going through that program.
  • 02:38:35
    So that's entrepreneurial entrepreneurship focus.
  • 02:38:40
    Our next item is innovative growth.
  • 02:38:42
    And this is really kind of focusing on our existing businesses that are poised for growth.
  • 02:38:46
    So second stage type companies that might grow from 10 or 15
  • 02:38:50
    employees to 20, 25 or 30, which is significant for a city of our size.
  • 02:38:55
    As you know, we don't do a great deal of outbound attraction or marketing by virtue of our small size of 10 square miles.
  • 02:39:02
    So we spent a lot more time kind of growing our own
  • 02:39:05
    Economic Gardening, so to speak, if you will, in Charlottesville.
  • 02:39:09
    And we do that often in partnership with our folks at the state, so the Virginia Economic Development Partnership.
  • 02:39:16
    This particular little story highlights a visit with a company called Virginia Diodes, which is quietly growing into one of our larger employers.
  • 02:39:25
    They've been around 25 years and have a little over 100 employees.
  • 02:39:29
    doing some very high tech stuff over at the X facility.
  • 02:39:33
    So we do a number of visitations throughout the course of a year and this one was in conjunction with our partners at the state who wanted to understand a little bit about exactly what Virginia Diocese was up to.
  • 02:39:45
    So just another example of activity in that category.
  • 02:39:50
    Pathways for Opportunity is our kind of workforce, is another way to describe it.
  • 02:39:55
    But through our plan, we've elevated that to these pathways for opportunity.
  • 02:40:00
    And last year, we partnered with the Chamber on a series called The Future of Talent.
  • 02:40:06
    which was a series about recruiting, retaining, and the future of work, if you will.
  • 02:40:12
    Six events with speakers over the course of the year in partnership with the Chamber led by our lead on that, our workforce development program manager, Jenny Bache.
  • 02:40:22
    So just an example, we had about 120 participants over those events and it's one of the ways that we stay connected with folks to kind of hear what their challenges are in a little bit different setting.
  • 02:40:34
    as opposed to just a business visitation type thing.
  • 02:40:37
    Next one is Creative Placemaking, which is a little fun and a little different for most economic development groups, but it is critical to the work that we do.
  • 02:40:47
    And last year we did a significant effort with the Friends of Downtown, which is a fairly newish downtown business group.
  • 02:40:56
    and they are largely raising their own funds through private sources but last year we entered into an agreement with them to help support them on behalf of the city and a good portion of those funds went to what was called Magic on the Mall which you saw over the holiday season with some light displays which you can see in this photo here.
  • 02:41:15
    This item will not go away as we're about to enter 2026, which will be the 50th anniversary of them all.
  • 02:41:22
    So additional placemaking will likely be taking place related to that.
  • 02:41:27
    And we're hopeful that we can celebrate with the business community the unique feature that is the downtown mall.
  • 02:41:36
    Our final element is storytelling for investment and that's our consultant basically said you guys are doing some good things but people don't know about it so you need to spread that news a little bit more.
  • 02:41:46
    You need to visit groups, you need to get more active on social media in the different ways that people consume information.
  • 02:41:52
    So we've taken that to heart and we launched a LinkedIn channel last year.
  • 02:41:57
    We have a little over 900 followers on that.
  • 02:42:00
    at this point, we had a Facebook, we continue with that and we continue to have a robust website as well.
  • 02:42:09
    So this little feature just kind of highlighted some of our top posts, favorite posts, most liked posts, things of that nature.
  • 02:42:18
    And then one of the more fun
  • 02:42:20
    by the numbers pages, which we could spend a bit of time on.
  • 02:42:23
    But I'll just highlight a few items.
  • 02:42:25
    There's lots of fun facts and kind of nuggets in here.
  • 02:42:27
    If you're interested, our GoCook program, which has been around probably our longest Go program, which stands for growing opportunities, had 99 individuals since its inception.
  • 02:42:40
    And I'm hopeful that this year we're going to get across the Century Barrier.
  • 02:42:44
    I'm certain we have a few of those lined up happening this year.
  • 02:42:47
    26,000 web views.
  • 02:42:50
    on the OED page, which is kind of interesting.
  • 02:42:53
    Most folks spend about 35 seconds when they come and visit, which I understand is a little above average, so maybe they like what they see.
  • 02:43:01
    There was a lot of talk earlier about electrification, and in our parking garage on Water Street, there are two electric vehicle chargers, which last year had 1,400 hours of charge time.
  • 02:43:13
    associated with them, and that is up.
  • 02:43:16
    It's about double from the year prior.
  • 02:43:17
    So just a little fun fact for you that you probably didn't think you were going to hear tonight.
  • 02:43:24
    In any case, the next item is a little metric kind of matrix that we've created.
  • 02:43:31
    Our consultant said one of the ways to kind of track broad overarching themes throughout the city, not
  • 02:43:39
    things that your office is going to directly make an impact on, but a good way to kind of track the overall health of the city is to follow these metrics and do those annually, stay up to date on those.
  • 02:43:51
    So what we've done is created a matrix that tracks those.
  • 02:43:54
    A baseline was 2021.
  • 02:43:57
    These come out annually.
  • 02:43:58
    These are all freely available.
  • 02:44:01
    So we don't get ourselves in a situation where the data is no longer going to be available in the future.
  • 02:44:05
    So
  • 02:44:06
    In three or four years, we'll have a nice track record of data here.
  • 02:44:10
    The green elements are the elements that are staying the same or increasing in the direction that we wish.
  • 02:44:16
    The red ones are kind of either flat or potentially going down in the opposite direction.
  • 02:44:21
    So we'll just keep tracking this and posting this for folks to take a look at as we move forward with our plan.
  • 02:44:31
    and Final Slide.
  • 02:44:32
    This is what the front page of the report looks like.
  • 02:44:35
    You can actually click on this.
  • 02:44:36
    If you had the PowerPoint, it would take you there to a little tool called Issue, which flips you through as if you were holding it in your hands.
  • 02:44:43
    But digitally, you can access that via our website at that link there.
  • 02:44:52
    Those are the quick highlights.
  • 02:44:53
    I hope that's enough to whet your whistle to maybe go and check out the full 20 pages.
  • 02:44:58
    We're proud of our work.
  • 02:44:59
    We're proud of the work that we do to support the business community and help it grow.
  • 02:45:02
    And welcome your feedback and continued support.
  • 02:45:06
    Thank you.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:45:07
    Thank you.
  • 02:45:08
    I serve on the Minority Business Council and
  • 02:45:12
    Nicole, you served on that as well.
  • 02:45:15
    And I'd just like the work that we're doing in that community as well to uplift all of businesses in the community.
  • 02:45:21
    So, great work.
  • 02:45:25
    Any questions?
  • 02:45:28
    Thank you, Chris.
  • 02:45:29
    I think actually, yes, the next item, if you don't... Nope, that's it.
  • 02:45:32
    Okay.
  • 02:45:34
    The next item we're at action items now is a resolution of proving the performance agreement

14. Resolution Approving Performance Agreement to Support 501 Cherry Avenue Redevelopment Efforts

• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:45:40
    to support 501 Cherry Avenue redevelopment efforts.
  • 02:45:44
    And Chris, we have you here to present.
• • Chris Engel
  • 02:45:49
    I guess I shouldn't have sat down.
  • 02:45:50
    Anyway, this item before you tonight is a resolution to support the development of 71 affordable units at 501 Cherry Avenue.
  • 02:46:06
    Piedmont Housing Alliance and Woodard Properties are involved in this project.
  • 02:46:12
    This is a performance agreement that uses the methodology that you're familiar with me sharing with you.
  • 02:46:19
    It's based upon the incremental increase the project creates on the site by virtue of doing the project.
  • 02:46:25
    So there's a base value associated with the property, which is what it's worth today.
  • 02:46:30
    And the development is going to create an additional
  • 02:46:35
    and the
  • 02:46:53
    for 30 years.
  • 02:46:54
    And that helps support those 71 units that will be built on site.
  • 02:46:58
    The affordability of those units is between 30 and 60%.
  • 02:47:01
    Spread across, have the exact numbers if you'd like them, but spread across between 30 and 60% of AMI.
  • 02:47:12
    You may recall that last July you passed a very kind of brief resolution indicating a willingness to consider such performance agreement and that was to give to give them the ability to feel confident that they were going to have city support.
  • 02:47:31
    This document is the actual document that would be
  • 02:47:35
    executed between the parties, so it's a little bit more to it.
  • 02:47:40
    But it essentially codifies what you approved last July when you passed a resolution in support of working on behalf of this project.
  • 02:47:50
    I will point out in note, and you have heard from others, that there is a capital improvement CIP contribution to this project in addition to this commitment.
  • 02:48:03
    The unique thing about this commitment is it doesn't happen until after the fact, until the units are built and a full year of taxes are paid and then once the verified units are in place, that 50% of the increment is then shared back in the form of a grant with the entity.
  • 02:48:22
    So happy to answer any questions you have about that.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 02:48:28
    And so this is specifically for the housing component?
• • Chris Engel
  • 02:48:31
    It is specific to the housing.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:48:34
    With the PHA?
• • 02:48:36
    Yes.
• • Chris Engel
  • 02:48:37
    PHA is the entity that will receive, PHA or one of their designees, will be the entity that will receive the grants.
  • 02:48:44
    This is a similar... Is this called a synthetic tip?
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 02:48:47
    Is that the... It's been called that, yes.
• • Chris Engel
  • 02:48:50
    That's a fair characterization.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 02:48:53
    And Mr. Sanders, this is separate from any consideration relative to the grocery store space.
• • Sam Sanders
  • 02:49:00
    Yeah, just to make that clear, initially the conversation that was had was that 501 Cherry was one project.
  • 02:49:09
    It just featured a grocery store.
  • 02:49:12
    But after deeper conversations and reconsideration internally,
  • 02:49:17
    I arrived at it being two projects.
  • 02:49:20
    So that's ultimately now while we are wanting to make sure that the distinction is clear.
  • 02:49:25
    This is about the residential housing development portion of the project and that we are actually, Chris and I have been in conversation, actively researching what we could bring back as a possible contribution towards the grocery store itself.
  • 02:49:39
    As the Fifeville Neighborhood Association continues to do its work in identifying a potential operator and our chance to review performers.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 02:49:48
    And we, in terms of our CIP, is there 3 million or 6 million?
• • Chris Engel
  • 02:49:55
    For this project, I believe it's 3.1 million that is allocated and set aside for this.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 02:50:00
    Yes.
  • 02:50:02
    We've not invested that yet.
  • 02:50:04
    Not yet.
  • 02:50:04
    Okay.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:50:07
    Other questions or comments?
• • Michael Payne
  • 02:50:09
    Free State Ford.
  • 02:50:10
    Basically, it's a 30-year tax break to help build the affordable housing in 501 Chair.
  • 02:50:17
    Yes.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 02:50:20
    I have a question.
  • 02:50:21
    I was looking through the documentation and the approving resolutions.
  • 02:50:30
    And I'm curious, first of all, why is the Economic Development Authority involved?
  • 02:50:34
    What do they add to this mix?
• • Chris Engel
  • 02:50:37
    Well, the state law requires that it happen in such a manner.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 02:50:42
    In order to do what?
  • 02:50:44
    To do the tax?
• • Chris Engel
  • 02:50:45
    In order to make the grant to the entity, typically these are for-profit entities.
  • 02:50:52
    In this case, it's likely to be a nonprofit, but the guidance is still to go through the EDA to actually make the grant.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 02:51:00
    So the EDA's participation is necessary because of the tax sharing agreement?
• • Chris Engel
  • 02:51:06
    In Virginia, there's rules against what cities can do with regard to this and the guidance has always been in Virginia.
  • 02:51:13
    The way to do it is through an EDA.
  • 02:51:16
    The previous versions that we have done both with for affordable housing purposes and business development purposes flow through the EDA as well.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 02:51:26
    Then on in the approving resolution on the page one of the approving resolution down towards the bottom in paragraph two, it says
  • 02:51:35
    It is the current intention of the City Council to make sufficient annual appropriation of monies to the authority, economic development authority, for the purpose of promoting economic development in the city by funding certain financial obligations of the authority pursuant to and during the term of the agreement.
  • 02:51:53
    Is there a line item in the budget for that?
• • Chris Engel
  • 02:51:58
    There is.
  • 02:52:01
    So that essentially says the EDA will
  • 02:52:05
    will share the funds that the city shares with it.
  • 02:52:09
    And there is a transfer that occurs between the city every year and the EDA to write these checks when it's time to do that.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 02:52:18
    How much of that money is expected to go into this project, if any?
• • Chris Engel
  • 02:52:23
    All of it.
  • 02:52:24
    It's simply a transfer of the
  • 02:52:27
    of The Tax.
  • 02:52:28
    So we estimate what the tax is going to be, set it aside, and when it actually comes to, there's a transfer from the city to the EDA, and the EDA actually writes the check to develop.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 02:52:40
    So the appropriation being talked about is the appropriation of half of the tax supplement.
• • Chris Engel
  • 02:52:47
    Yes.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 02:52:47
    Okay.
  • 02:52:50
    I was thinking that it was saying that there was some money that we were going to be contributing
  • 02:52:57
    in this more directly right away.
• • Chris Engel
  • 02:52:59
    No, no, it all happens after the project's developed, after they pay taxes for a full year and the units are verified.
• • Sam Sanders
  • 02:53:06
    The tax money is yours, you're authorizing it to be facilitated.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 02:53:10
    Okay, I get it now, yeah.
• • Sam Sanders
  • 02:53:12
    Okay, thanks.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 02:53:13
    And is that actually how it functions, where it's paid and then given back or is it just not collected?
• • Chris Engel
  • 02:53:18
    No, it is paid and it's given back, that's a function of Virginia law as well.
• • Sam Sanders
  • 02:53:22
    You're obligated to pay taxes, you cannot be waived.
• • Chris Engel
  • 02:53:25
    In Virginia, there's no such thing as tax abatement.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 02:53:28
    There's like a feedback loop instead of just yes.
  • 02:53:32
    Thank you.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:53:34
    So questions if not, if I can get a motion to approve this.
  • 02:53:40
    We'll vote on this one tonight.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 02:53:42
    I move the resolution approving performance agreement to support 501 Cherry Avenue redevelopment efforts.
  • 02:53:48
    Second.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:53:49
    Okay, can we vote?
  • 02:53:51
    this motion passes some 5-0.
  • 02:53:54
    The next item on is it.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 02:53:55
    Can I just say one thing?
  • 02:53:56
    First of all, I just want to thank you, sir, and Mr. Sanders and everyone else for your creativity and imagination in getting this done and other projects we're doing like this.
  • 02:54:09
    I think it just goes to show when you've got a good intent and you're willing to be creative, it's remarkable the things you can do.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:54:18
    Agreed.
  • 02:54:18
    Thank you.

15. Resolution Designating Preservation of Affordable Housing, Inc.'s, Site at 10th and Wertland Street, SW Corner, as a Revitalization Area (Parcel Numbers: 100053000; 100039000; 100038000, and 100037000); (1 of 2 readings)

• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:54:20
    The next item on the agenda is a resolution on designating preservation of affordable housing incorporated site at 10th and Wartland Street, southwest corner is a revitalization area.
  • 02:54:36
    Alex, hello, sir.
• • SPEAKER_12
  • 02:54:37
    Good evening, Councilors.
  • 02:54:41
    Tonight, staff is presenting to the City Council a request by POA, which stands for
  • 02:54:49
    Preservation of Affordable Housing Inc.
  • 02:54:53
    The project is a partnership between UVA Foundation and POR.
  • 02:55:01
    UVA is providing the parcel of land which has essentially four parcels and is located at the southwest corner of tents and wetland.
  • 02:55:17
    The area is within the census tract 2.02 and approximately 60.7% of the residents of the area below poverty level compared to 22.6% in the city.
  • 02:55:34
    The applicant is requesting that the city council designate these four parcels at the southwest corner of Tent and Wetland as a revitalization area.
  • 02:55:47
    and Readiness for their proposed submission of application for LIGHTEC development to the states.
  • 02:55:54
    The importance of the LIGHTEC, the importance of the designation is essentially to enable a poor to competitively score higher in terms of application scoring and rating system by the state agency.
  • 02:56:11
    The project is a mixed-use development.
  • 02:56:15
    It's going to have a neighborhood-scale commercial component like entrepreneurial development among other commercial services.
  • 02:56:25
    And it's going to include 180 affordable units ranging from 30% AMI to up to 80% AMI.
  • 02:56:37
    The estimated cost of the project, if the funding is in place, is $66 million and is going to provide construction opportunities and administrative employment opportunities as well.
  • 02:56:52
    The light-tech deadline for submission is March 13th.
  • 02:56:57
    And on that note, I'm going to ask the City Council because this is the first reading.
  • 02:57:03
    If a supermajority of the City Council is in line with the approval of this project, if you can do it in one reading, you know, to enable them to submit the application on March 13th.
  • 02:57:19
    and the application is consistent with the 2023 Council's strategic plan framework for housing and partnership and also complies with provisions in the comprehensive plan and affordable housing plan.
  • 02:57:36
    I have a representative from Paul who's calling in from on phone and his name is John
  • 02:57:47
    Settle.
  • 02:57:49
    He's going to be available to answer any questions that Council may have as well.
  • 02:57:53
    So staff recommendation is that Council consider and approve the request.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 02:58:01
    Thank you.
  • 02:58:02
    So I attended the public meeting that they had last week at Mount Zion Baptist African Church and
  • 02:58:12
    what I saw and heard that it's a really great input from the public there and I know they've been getting it all along.
  • 02:58:29
    Howard, yes.
  • 02:58:31
    And gosh, I'm forgetting all the names now.
  • 02:58:34
    But anyway, they have a great crew that's out there getting input as well and guidance from them.
  • 02:58:40
    So it's a request that we do.
  • 02:58:44
    Is this a public hearing as well that we approve this tonight?
• • Michael Payne
  • 02:58:59
    I'm happy to pass it tonight a few questions I'm happy to pass this item because obviously it's pretty straightforward just to help their low-income housing tax credit application
  • 02:59:12
    This is the affordable housing UVA pledge to build.
  • 02:59:14
    If they're submitting a low-income housing tax credit application, my understanding is UVA has made a decision to not contribute any money towards the affordable housing that they pledge to build.
  • 02:59:26
    So if they submit a low-income housing tax credit application, they're going to need the city to spend that money for their application to be competitive.
  • 02:59:34
    That's the case with all ITEC applications.
  • 02:59:36
    Have we gotten a request from POA in terms of an amount of dollars
  • 02:59:40
    that will have to spend for the affordable housing that UVA pledged to build?
• • SPEAKER_12
  • 02:59:43
    Yeah, initially they submitted an application for CAF.
  • 02:59:51
    I think it was for $3 million.
  • 02:59:53
    And the last discussion I had with them was they are advising that particular
  • 03:00:06
    and the
• • Michael Payne
  • 03:00:26
    but no, that's helpful to know and I think that's just important for the community to understand and this is not a criticism in any way of preservation of affordable housing or Mr. Settle and their team who I think have done a very good job but I think it's important for the community to understand that the affordable housing UVA pledge to build has to be financed by Charlottesville and the projects in Albemarle have to be financed by Albemarle so their pledge really did not amount to much of anything.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 03:00:54
    Yeah, I think they see their contribution as the land.
  • 03:00:58
    I think they also were involved in planning efforts as well, but I'm not disagreeing with you.
  • 03:01:06
    And how is this, Mr. Sanders, is this something on your sort of radar in terms of that investment needing to be made to sort of actualize this project?
• • Sam Sanders
  • 03:01:17
    I'm not going to speak to what is needed and whether or not it can happen or not.
  • 03:01:22
    What I'll say is we have had conversation beyond Mr. Icafuna, Mr. Fries has also had conversation with Mr. Settle just going through that particular project design scope and had conversations about what we anticipated the city council's posture to be on a request for funding.
  • 03:01:42
    I can also share that I've had conversation with
  • 03:01:45
    University Leadership as well, myself, indicating to them the concern that there might be resistance or reluctance by council to engage in funding the project.
  • 03:01:56
    We plan to have further conversations about that.
  • 03:01:58
    Ideally, what we have been able to discuss as staff is
  • 03:02:03
    We see no issue with this revitalization designation because it is appropriate.
  • 03:02:08
    We also recognize that you all have to make a decision on whether or not the city will directly invest.
  • 03:02:15
    There are other aspects of what the request is that we are also looking into.
  • 03:02:21
    But at this moment, we're not bringing forward any requests because at this moment, my budget is closed as you will hear shortly.
  • 03:02:29
    And I don't have anything set aside specifically for this project.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 03:02:32
    So the intent with this particular item tonight is really a formal.
• • Sam Sanders
  • 03:02:36
    Just the designation so that they can move forward with submission of the light tech application.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 03:02:40
    And then they're putting, Michael putting together their, I guess, finance stack to do that work as a separate.
  • 03:02:47
    Yes.
• • Michael Payne
  • 03:02:47
    Right.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 03:02:48
    An ongoing conversation.
• • Michael Payne
  • 03:02:49
    And as I said, I have no problem passing the item tonight.
  • 03:02:52
    I think it's just important to highlight what will happen.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 03:02:55
    One question, is this the
  • 03:02:59
    The map that I saw in the packet, it seemed like it included Stacey Hall within it?
  • 03:03:07
    Exactly.
  • 03:03:09
    Well, that's, if you look on page 154 of the packet, that's most of Stacey Hall, which seems strange to me.
  • 03:03:18
    I don't know, is the Foundation own that?
  • 03:03:21
    Well, it is.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 03:03:21
    Oh, yeah.
  • 03:03:22
    Yeah.
  • 03:03:22
    Okay.
• • Lloyd Snook
  • 03:03:22
    It's been 25 years.
• • SPEAKER_02
  • 03:03:27
    Oh, yes, thanks.
• • SPEAKER_16
  • 03:03:30
    Hi, how are you all this evening?
  • 03:03:33
    One, I want to thank you all for your consideration.
  • 03:03:35
    And for the city's work on this, Alex has done a fabulous job.
  • 03:03:40
    So UVA will be carving off the back portion of Stacey Hall.
  • 03:03:45
    So that parking lot area on Wartland will be carved off the Stacey Hall parcel.
  • 03:03:50
    And that will be incorporated into this parcel.
  • 03:03:52
    So Stacey Hall itself will not be a part of what's deeded over to the foundation, but that parking lot area there.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 03:04:01
    Okay, yeah, I wondered about that.
  • 03:04:03
    I looked at the map and I was like, that can't be right.
  • 03:04:05
    There's a lot of, a lot of stuff in Stacey Holmes.
• • SPEAKER_16
  • 03:04:08
    Yeah, yeah.
  • 03:04:09
    Now we did not get that lucky.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 03:04:10
    Okay.
  • 03:04:13
    Okay.
  • 03:04:14
    So is it time to pull the counselor Oschrin on this particular?
  • 03:04:17
    Yes.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 03:04:21
    Motion to approve this tonight.
• • Brian Pinkston
  • 03:04:24
    Second.
  • 03:04:24
    Okay.
• • Natalie Oschrin
  • 03:04:26
    Okay.
• • Juandiego Wade
  • 03:04:26
    All right, John.
  • 03:04:30
    Thank you, sir.
  • 03:04:31
    Thank you, too, Allison.

16. Ordinance Amending Memorandum of Agreement and its corresponding Ordinance (#O-24-089) authorizing a grant of public funding to subsidize the South First Street Phase Two Redevelopment Project of Charlottesville Redevelopment and Housing Authority (1 of 2 readings).