Planning Commission Work Session   9/24/2024

That's what we've done in previous years, right?

We've got the drafts in this meeting and then... No, this is a new opportunity.

Oh, are we going on another CIP Work Session?

We're immediately following Council's introduction to the opening of the budget.

Okay.

So this is, this is pre-dact.

We're more included than ever.

Okay.

Cool.

Cool.

Thank you.

Well, so the one that you have there, you have last year's, just as a reminder, and then the second PowerPoint.

Thanks.

Was.

Uh huh.

Sorry.

But I'll repeat all of that when we, when we start.

It would six paybacks.

I mean, it wasn't in the budget.

Yeah, but it was like, we told them they would stick to get the loan and then we promised to pay them like a million.

Is that something we need to be thinking about today?

Well, since that commitment's been made, you will see that in the documents that come your way.

Yeah, yes, because

Deliver it over there?

The ship sailed, and Chrissy will be spending lots of time making sure that the book's about moving with that as the piece of the puzzle.

Yeah, so I think they're going from a bank that we're going to pay them to pay them.

Yeah, there's, there's, there's definitely some, some very creative people involved in putting that together in less than 60,000.

How did I say it's amazing how quickly we, you know,

It is super amazing.

That one, now we're paying for the whole thing and not getting control of it at all though.

So before we start, do you need a disclosure or sort of no?

I'm going to have a few of those, like, like, so.

Hey, how's it going?

What comes here?

So I'm just going to sit here, listen and be quiet.

I couldn't convince you to actually apply.

Anyway.

Without.

It's a good place to get your information.

All right.

So that is the overview.

On that.

So Laura, you're looking for feedback as to priorities, prioritization.

So those are just very, very broad things.

Maybe you've got nothing to say.

I'm just wondering if that's counted for here.

So generally, they're coming from CIP.

What does SIA stand for SIAV?

So not specifically for that small area plan, but all the small area plans.

And then the neighborhood transportation improvements to 100,000 for the next four years, you know, those are your little like temporary or like quick build.

And still a balance, but I think that is not spending it down.

All right, so that's my main comment on kind of the priorities and aligning the CIT with the comp plan.

We've been talking with Ben Chambers, our transportation planner quite a bit about this, and he has been giving us some early descriptions as we've been working through, then you are spot on that quick build is what's coming from that category.

I think we need to spend the money to top it off.

Sam is focused on is being absolutely certain that we've got the support infrastructure to spend all the money.

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Let's make sure we can land the plane before we launch it in the air, I guess.

So next fiscal year or a fiscal year?

I mean, I understand.

And then now that we have a whole bunch of sidewalks and ability to projects and ability to actually execute on them, we wouldn't have to say, oh, well, all of a sudden, there's all this money that we need you to now allocate that you hadn't thought of before, because you got all the money originally, we could have had a couple of million dollars in that account.

I'm just dumping it out there.

I think it's just a good reminder or a step to there bringing the buzz forward to asking Sam and James and they make sure they can.

I'm just going to leave the next person stuck to figure out to say something other than transportation.

I don't know if anyone knows that, because I was surprised that they weren't all of the one capital thing, like doing Charleston level school in the Walker group.

They were separate, but I don't know why Walker got

They have to do the documentation, the permitting, because I'm just worried there's not even enough time.

And I was like, didn't you know?

Oh, no, the whole plan is like they're supposed to, the fifth graders supposed to, they're supposed to push down.

All to the view for it, and everyone forgot this.

I thought that was a very well particular report.

It feels very instantly actionable.

And that could have unforeseen economic impacts that I think, like, it feels like the money you put in, you will get back by keeping, uh, being good stewards of the doubt.

in 2044 with no tree steps.

I think you're going to lose trying to call them cottages.

That's what it is.

We're going to talk about it.

Rocking chairs.

But okay.

It is a little, like, they're what?

Yeah, particularly.

No, no, no, that's not what they are.

I think what they're doing is, I almost began to turn, I think that all the easements, there's no fees associated with Denny's the right-of-ways or the other thing.

Yeah.

Someone could turn a blind eye to that.

Speaking of human capital.

I should plan for the next couple of years.

So I'm looking at my phone at the packet.

Like, to me, it was like, okay, this is all I felt like the downtown mall was easily chunkable.

First of all, maybe evaluate the layout of the crowds, maybe up the rents already, because it's kind of as it is.

Oh, the cafes?

The cafes.

So it's still going here.

Yeah, they have enough funding to

I was just going to reinforce, I don't know what's going on with the homelessness

Discussion, but if there's, again, I guess I feel like I can't really say like, oh, this should have more money or this should have, because I don't know where it would be like.

It's not clear what it is.

It's taken from, but I would say that goes in the council priorities of additional.

It was major.

joined RV Navy efforts.

But it's partially permanent for housing and then a later phase will be PHA, regular affordable housing.

Which again, when things start getting complicated fast.

Well, I don't, I just, in reading articles, whether it's support for him and the city to figure out what they're doing, not even building anything yet, but just like, it seems like there's been a lot of spinning around what, what the next steps are.

I see them just to kind of like have

I'm not sure.

What's that we say they're doing and what's the relationship?

that Salvation Army wants?

Traditionally for Salvation Army, shelters are not.

from a planned review at the same point.

I think I also heard them say that they were still in fundraise and they needed to get some

It's a good comment because they've also changed and there's a whole geometry associated.

Because I'm just thinking, once we're done the NNIB core, where there's projects that are not as tall as what's in the comp plan, they were very much key for when we were in excess.

Thank you.

So, well, I think, I mean, we do, because if it gets hot, if we find that they don't, they end up in water towers without the building.

There's always a water pressure concern, every time you put it in the building.

But it says you begin thinking about this and you begin thinking about

There is a priority for consideration.

So just as a process matter, do we have, and I'm sure the answer to this is yes, and I just haven't walked face first into it, do we have an elegant way of outcome measurement on the CIP?

And so if you get into kind of the weeds of the budget work page there, it will know different outcomes that come come through that.

But so hence not elegant.

Yeah, it's, you know, it's not, you know, it'll know how many of this or, you know, how many square footage of this or how many linear feet of this

You know, I mean, to sort of get a handle on the measurable of what we're doing, or what we get, I'd be really interested to see.

Biller of the Budget Explorer?

Right.

I think one quick thing I'd add to this in the past, but I feel kind of touched on it actually, but

Basically, if they got their SCP approved, we fund them.

Or if they ask for it.

It has some sort of, could be a different process of the CAF committee to oversee that than for the annual hops commitments, but, uh.

Are you saying 10 million here and then anything else is cake?

How does it compare to other potential projects that could be done?

But, um, yeah.

So maybe there's like a distinction between the Friendship Court or the West Haven, like huge.

I think you're right, it probably doesn't have to be done more future looking like years in the future for that reason.

Depending on the only couple of properties that are going to be that.

Not really a CIP discussion.

So the question, as you guys said, about Kate BK, Lyle is a representative to the school board for CFP stuff, so maybe I want to drop a buggy this year.

Did he bring Lyle and actually go up watching?

Yeah, he noted this morning that he was a bruised shirt and was not.

Yeah, sure.

Moving forward, so.

Have you got nothing to say?

Yeah, I don't know that I have.

Oh, sure.

Sorry.

We have had at least 40 formal pre-application meetings.

We have a number of development plans that are under review.

That sort of thing.

They shouldn't be terribly controversial to all the way to, OK, we're really going to revisit this item that was a passion point for the community.

But I mean, I think just from, I mean, I've been obviously following the permanent portal, which is much nicer than the old one, though.

We're learning and growing all at the same time.

So I've seen site plans.

So, yes, we realized that is a concern because the point of this was to be able to allow folks to find what they needed themselves.

Cool.

And that one thing that came in was nine units, you know, so one under the inclusionary zoning limit.

Because, you know, it's really, until you got the words on the paper, people aren't putting a whole lot into that.

It doesn't have the capacity.

It went into the ether and we are circling back to that in a more determined way and there is more of an interest at OCS.

So they're working on it.

Yeah, I know.

It would have, you know, with so much legacy still occurring.

large, huge things that are not legacy.

It's it's maybe let's keep an eye on that.

And when the stars align, there's a lot of opportunity for folks to to do a lot of different things.

That's only in certain areas.

No, what are you talking about?

I don't even totally remember what the fence was.

It's because Merckitt Street is a downtown street.

Do we not include that at the end?

We did not.

I don't hear about fences that much.

and the Lease valve, such as the West Main and there'll be one or two others where you might just do a little bit of, okay, but you know what, we're working with something pretty new and we're going to find that as we go.

Yeah, I think that is totally

No one wants to, I can't get a bank loan.

with those arguments.

No, but if they, but if someone were to say, I really like to build a mixed use building here, but I'm not building a mixed use building here.

We have not, whether it's because it hasn't been shared or whether that's not a factor.

So I haven't had it gotten us.

But I don't think we're going to address it pretty much at all.

Don't ask me what we were deciding the last 60 days of that.

Why don't we even have ADUs anymore if you can build?

So the reason we're stuck with this is that the state legislature has defined ADU as, yes.

I don't know if we'll make it, but I think that is.

or maybe vice versa.

We're trying as part of, in reference to the code, instead of that to go with, and you're allowed the additional units to distinguish between how much it, the value and who's in it kind of thing as opposed to, you know, because yes, it was very confusing.

And then if we just stop using the e-mail for now all together, then there finally won't be any... I'm sure eventually something will come to pass.

Thank you.

like highlight areas of concentrated development would actually benefit the quality of life and benefit sort of it wouldn't add economic burden to the maintenance of our roads or the maintenance of our

It would be really helpful if we had, in these residential areas, we had commercial uses so that you could reduce the number of people.

I mean, I just feel like if there's a way to sort of develop our primary corridors first as a priority, I just don't know if there's a way to help like dangle carrots to the development community.

Solla-Yates, Michael Joy, Philip D'Oronzio, Rory Stolzenberg Solla-Yates, Michael Joy, Philip D'Oronzio, Rory Stolzenberg

And you've got ownership and other sorts of, you know, so there's a lot of things that are outside of our control.

I would just curious if there was something feedback from the development community to be like, hey, instead of let me do anything I want.

That is the feedback.

If we did here, we have these infill SUP where we drew sort of a ring that was basically half the city but the center and said, you know, we found that wasn't a very successful tool.

being done, right?

So maybe that's part of it could be part of that discussion.

Yeah, I mean, we were to either highlight other within neighborhoods, maybe that could be like a topic that could come out.

Yeah, but still all the books.

Yeah, that's a great opportunity there.

Yeah.

So, I mean, I think there's more investment that can be made on our existing transit network so that you're not necessarily assuming that, you know, all those people are needing cars, you know, and it's, it's, I just think that there's, there's, there's other ways we can think about that, rather than just automatically assuming you should be focusing all of the density on the corridors itself.

So that may not be the way to approach this.

So, you know, so again, while these other processes are working themselves out, which it's going to take a little time, we have, you know, allowed for some flexibility in the interim.

The people implementing our ARR, BNRC and whatever, it's how many, how many like renovations and flips are there still within those sensitive areas that probably would have been allowed before that, that, I mean, that was the thing that we were aiming or say thing that we were aiming to tamp down on, right?

A lot of people working through that process.

Maybe not every, but I mean, everyone I talked to.

They just kept their mouths shut.

Are people forming that like a condominium when they make the use of lots or has it been done in a different process?

So, you know, there will be documentation that they're going to have to have it placed on the private side to manage that.

So, would they necessarily have common areas?

Well, they're going to have access easements.

Yeah.

And not, not always.

Yeah, not the ones that are along the block, split along the frontage, I guess, like that one on 16, or used to work for a firefly.

I know which one.

We had hopes there was more out there, and we're on the cutting edge as always.

If it doesn't apply, that's actually, that would be a really good thing.

So you might not be going the condo route, but you're going to be going probably an HOA route.

Is there a size to that?

So I don't got you, but that is a, I think that was a concern.

That is a multi-family instead of a single house.

But I don't, again, this is me not knowing entirely except that just curious.

I'm not, yeah, I wouldn't even be able to speculate as to

It's a city everybody would consider a few guests on the spot that just won't ever develop.

It's a feasibility of this.

I mean, I don't know what type of switch here to have these buildings, but it seems like it's the public or region.

Yeah, the one across from the streets?

I don't retire it.

It is, it is a pride infrastructure for that.

It's completely non-descript.

They're like, yeah.

I think about that every time I walked on was mainstream.

Maybe that's a different story.

Oh, well, we've had those.

I don't remember one.

The tree permit issue is big and various other things they'd like to add.

Yeah.

I love doing it like every other day.

Rory Waysett.

How could you see that?

It hasn't even been, like, shut it off yet.

Sorry, that just says, yeah.

And I'm interested to hear about that.

And so there's going to be a lot of confusion for people that when they see the project.

So I'm just curious that there's like a little takeaway.

Just three different scales about how this reflects the new move zoning opportunities could be.

Like a little newsletter.

Yeah.

And this is probably just a future tangent, but alleys.

That's all I have to say.

But I do live in Bowen Mills here.

Maybe some subplots.

So if there was some kind of group working on identifying alleys that might be interested in getting, you know, streets that are like secretly owned over there.

Anyway, that's just something to put on the list of things that might preclude some... It's on our list.

It could be, you know.

or something like that.

What are they generally?

They have to be registered to vote.

Yeah, I mean, there are things like, well, for example, you know, I mean, you saw new taxes from, you know, is the other new documents.

Yeah, they're required to have, they're required paperwork.

Do we even require like an actual like affidavit?

And it's just a really, really tough issue.

I'm not sure whether he did.

Here's where my phone is.

If it's air, if it's being rented out, when you have a list of how many people paid what days,

And you were actually there, but at least it's showing you weren't renting it.

So, but that would be a start to require that.

As we recall from the last time we visited this, there's a lot of very passionate people on both sides.

Because that's going to be a whole thing.

The, like, clarification of the code.

Yeah, but maybe if we did a small thing and said, we're going to do a big thing, then, and don't snowball this time, then maybe we can fix it without, without spiraling.

Well, at $800 a month, it's full.

I'm not saying we require you to have lived there the previous year if you didn't know the house already.

And I want Airbnb.

So, yeah, it's a tough one.

But I'm kind of looking forward to getting a handle on what are the real problems and what are some potential options in terms of solutions.

This should not be that controversial.

So you're saying recommendations that you haven't met the requirement in the previous year, the work with the residency requirement?

If you violate the permit in the previous year, as at least as a pretender, we suspend you for some years.

Wouldn't we still be in a situation of having to prove that they haven't met the requirement in the previous year?

We get to apply anyway, because if we promise to be in the

But what it did is it set, it sort of laid down a marker for, look, if you behave this way, and what it's really designed for is that if you have your 70-pound dog come barreling down the hallway and knock over a little old lady, you can now say, these are the rules, get phytomatica.

Oh, my God.

So they can then DNA test the, and then they'll come after you.

I'm not there.

And so not getting any of that right.

Yes, I heard that too, because I'm going to be working out.

Creasy, what else would you like to give them today?

And Will,

You can get a couple of other meetings.

We shall see.

But again, I really have a short meeting in November.

Yeah, it's it's different.

Do that.

Like a half hour meeting.

I think he means he'd rather get there.

Well, you know, it is what it is.

We got an A's in the movies.

Back in the day, it was pre-C9 in the morning meetings.

There was the summer of 2008, I believe, where we had eight hearings in July and August.

And it all died.

and they're hosting us and that'll be a presentation of the resilience projects between City and County staff.

What is the deliverable that you guys are looking for?

Yeah, that we haven't yet gathered again on that, but that was our initial meeting to, you know, make it make their vehicle besides just coming together and getting to know our colleagues a little bit.

They meet with us again in less than five years.

We did have that COVID thing in between.

That's true.

Yes.

Do we have other work sessions planned in the midterm future?

And then, you know, so.

Well, Christmas Eve is a Tuesday, then the 31st is also a Tuesday.

Kelly will have her feet wet a little bit more, hopefully we'll have a few other things going and we'll be able to plan out some other work sessions for the new year.

Bill?

Sir?

You want to take us home?

If that's not good enough for you, I'd also like to point out that it's National Punctuation Day.

Oh, thank you.

I always hesitate.

Never know what we're going to get.