Human Rights Commission Meeting   5/16/2024

If you don't mind people observing you, then it's okay.

Well, have we officially started or do we need to?

So you are our leader.

Yeah.

You'll have me.

We'll have you.

It's a way to consolidate power.

So maybe I'll just sit over there and we can eat this sandwich, of course.

You can just sit on the sidelines.

Yeah, I'm not, but I still don't know the answers.

You've heard from other folks?

The way you can't do it virtually or otherwise.

No.

I'm going to give it another minute.

I think we can probably regroup perfect, as much as any late families.

It is beautiful out there.

I can't see it.

Berry's here.

Yeah.

Have you used any other names before?

Have you ever used any aliases?

You know, I hate when you have to wear real clothes.

It's still comfortable and still lovely, like all of the things.

I can.

And you may be able to find them in multiple colors that are part of your identity.

Oh, good.

Good catch.

It's wonderful how she's getting around.

That's important to you.

And I'll ask Todd to do our roll call.

Suzanne?

I'm here.

I'm here.

Act as a strong advocate to justice and equal opportunity by providing city-wide leadership and guidance in the area of civil rights.

Dare I ask if we have a quorum?

One more, and we'll do it.

Yes.

There's a concert next door.

And so I guess we'll move into the OHR staff report.

Lily, would you like to go first or would you like me to go first?

That's really cool.

Or is it really a broader umbrella?

It is local governments and nonprofits and really just anyone who's working in some sort of organization that's

Great.

I love that.

My office uses that.

It's been a long time.

Catherine, welcome to Cordon's.

Do we have any?

Where are you?

Is it out?

Not fired.

So we are way to tell people, right?

Sorry, you're off the commission.

Let me see if they're stuck together.

Are they stuck together?

I don't have anything stuck to mine.

Are you present?

Thank you.

And going off to your graduate program in Forensic Linguistics in New York.

So really exciting.

We'll see her a bit in the office still at the end of July.

We have her doing a presentation to us at some point, right?

That one was informative, like a 93-page paper to read about that, and she'll share that with you guys in a presentation.

Yeah, it's informative.

So if you have any questions about the report or anything like that, let me know.

The second row of the measures chart on page.

On page 18.

Ernest is here.

Do you want to tag in?

Not yet.

I move to approve minutes from April 4, 2024.

Second.

And jumping down.

Yes.

Heather?

Yes.

OK. Minutes are approved.

All right, let's take it to a vote.

Kathryn?

Approve.

Approve.

And then we move into the work session after that.

And I know that others have very strong opinions.

Is there some back history, you said something about again,

No, I just want to make sure that what we said, because my concern is the presence of our local police force being there in the capacity of setting a perimeter for state police.

Oh, sorry.

Yes.

I'd love to talk about our other options.

That's what I have right now as far as a chair update.

Or did you envision that like a different place in the general?

Alright, let's go.

really wrong not to inquire more deeply at the very least.

I just know that, you know, many of the protesters have now, their charges have been dropped because of lack of evidence that they actually did anything violent.

So I go back to anybody else.

And we could, part of a statement that we draft could speak to that.

This is money that could have been spent on a lot of different things in the city that in my mind would be much more in line with.

It should also give us time to maybe get some information from Charlottesville police, city manager, whoever that might be that would share that information with us.

So many of the attendees would not be here for July.

So finals are already complete.

Or we have it in the space where maybe it's less timely, but maybe we have more information.

I don't know if everything has to be public but you know for some people their privacy might need to be protected and maybe they're just interviewed by one person and then we have their you know their testimonies communicated and respecting their privacy and anonymity so it doesn't have to just be like one event it's I guess my point.

And there may be legal issues which I would imagine

I'm sure we'll tell them.

Yeah, April, August 15th.

I've not heard anything yet.

Who made that decision to, you know, to call out the city police?

Charlottesville Police, then Albemarle County Police.

I'm sorry.

That's why it was handled in Albemarle County court, even though the magistrates were confused about that.

That's a whole other conversation we'll catch up on another day.

OK.

OK.

OK.

So, like, when was that decision made?

And is our chief going to have a town hall?

Those are questions that I have.

Did anybody bring that up at city council on Monday night?

I didn't watch it.

Don Gathers spoke, but not calling any specific actor for accountability concern over the deployment of Charlottesville police.

Yeah.

What are our next steps?

What can we do?

You know, monthly meeting, like is that that is that within the realm of like lawful possibilities?

But yeah, you could do that.

Oh, um, step on what we're already doing, but on June 3rd, I know we're already going to be at the city council meeting to do the annual report to the council that maybe we may want to, I don't know if we want to pull that together or push them apart, but I just, I realized that we were already on the agenda in a couple of weeks.

Um, I can imagine how much, how much time do we have to do we have?

So we have time.

It's real time.

So.

What do we want to ask?

What can we ask for?

Oh, OK.

All of that.

How much money was spent on city resources?

It just feels like it's important for a human rights commission.

So there's, I mean, I appreciate the idea of like, what are all the things that we want to ask and better understand?

How many were sent there and what kind of training?

Can we ask why one of them was laughing the entire time because you said it was funny?

And we have that person's name.

Oh, yes, I do.

And there are photos of that and video and things like that.

I think that makes a lot of sense.

That's a great question.

Doesn't it seem like we would want to request the information, unless you think we should just ask them on the spot, request the information first so you have like everything possible and then maybe and then the chief and then the city council or then the city council and then the chief I don't know but you'd hope to get some information

Chief, and if we don't hear a response then we're prepared with that and also going to city council and saying we have made an inquiry and we have not heard.

And what kind of inquiry are you making?

Like I said, I'm very curious what's happening within the city in terms of conversations, etc.

Are we still brainstorming questions or are we?

Send them in.

And Ernest, when you say send them in, do you mean to the police chief or to them?

And then we'll.

Got it.

While I was, how you feeling?

Yeah, I could write.

I know.

I'd be very interested to know what kind of directive came from the state in addition, because there is some discussion about whether the governor made statements or played a role, the attorney general.

Do we know if the, we have a police review board, right?

Why were decisions made?

This isn't about following policy or not following policy in the same way that I think the review board would be addressing it.

It's how those decisions were made, why they were made, what they cost us.

And should we come up with some sort of timeframe that we'll get it to you by?

So we had that Monday, April, so.

Yeah, what would you prefer if we can set a time?

So I'm thinking if you guys can get us to start by the 27th, yeah, 27th, 28th.

I can't commit anybody else, but speaking for myself, I think I could send a bunch of questions well in advance of that.

That would help.

I do a Google doc, but I don't think we're allowed to do that.

I mean, I don't know how everybody feels comfortable about using Microsoft, whatever we have.

Thank you.

It's your turn now, be called.

My document's in.

Never you, Heather.

I'll have my moment, looking at a document attached to an email.

If everybody's good where we are right now, we need to move into a work session.

Like, I guess, like, will we, do we want to take action to actually get public attention focused on it, right?

Well, if we stood the letter.

Press police.

Yeah.

I mean, I think we should, but I'm asking the question because obviously, you know.

So not just put it on our website or the city page.

I'm happy to pitch in on that also.

I guess that's something you guys would help us with.

Thanks.

Not forgotten, but like it doesn't get addressed.

And there's so much I would love to say.

You can say it, Ernest.

You call yourself the, I'm not going to say that.

We'll put it in the letter.

I know that's not the official view of the Human Rights Commission, but as an alum, I was really- It was controlled.

I think we got four of them.

I find the notion that backpacks on college campuses are somehow inherently scary and threatening is a very strange thing.

Because they couldn't...

I hear you.

Just for the record, I am associated with historical events that have resulted in violence.

I know.

We all live in this town.

Yeah.

I think that'll be really helpful.

It was so loud.

So we're going to talk about amending the Human Rights Ordinance again.

It was kind of abruptly suggested.

This got added and somehow it got kind of just accepted whole

So we'll do research.

So I would be much more comfortable if it said research project or other something.

But it doesn't require us to do it.

That's what I was going to suggest, that we leave it within the scope of our activities, but not make it a requirement.

Yeah.

We want to get it correct this time and also incorporate what you guys see fit to incorporate.

Why should I say this?

Focus area?

So I think not having that in, you know, you can kind of do

When you say research, do you mean even us bringing the panel in?

Focus or drive your work as a commission.

You said that to me early on when we first met.

Yes.

I don't know how other people feel.

Like, what is the scope of your work?

I just want to make sure that if we're not here and this commission is still alive, that there is a focus.

So yeah.

Great.

Really helpful to be able to talk to them and get their testimony.

Is that limited to the investigation of individual complaints or can that power be used for sort of more general systemic issues?

Cause it's right now, it's subpoena deuces ticum for documentary evidence as it currently reads, not witness testimony.

So is there thinking behind having this clause, I see it as being for individual employment discrimination complaints, but not for housing discrimination complaints and not under, okay.

I'm sorry, that's so confusing.

Thank you.

So these are the things I want you to contemplate.

In the federal court it's like the 12b-6 standard like once you like the pleaded like you look at the papers and you say is this is this like sufficient as an allegation yeah because because it's not true that they don't have a right to appeal it's just they don't have a right to appeal in the middle of the case right and it's not and again it's not in the middle it would be after the rendering of finding any in either situation right um

It's you guys are sort of just reviewing to see if it was fairly done and investigated properly.

It's later in the, you have to go through a process to get there.

That's a big question for me because I think that would require some training because we've never done this and a really solid process so that we don't mismanagement and give people a good process.

Yeah.

They all have something sort of akin to what we currently have with varying degrees of scope, I guess I would say.

Do we have the hearing or do we have the breakfast?

So you currently have sort of a hearing focused model without the ability for a respondent to file an appeal.

I will say, I mean, I don't know what other people think, but I am peripherally connected to kind of things like this and have seen it in both forms and really, really just like the hearing focused format in a non tribunal.

Yeah.

I mean, I just, yeah.

Yeah.

And I will, yeah, I would love to hear what others.

We will consider that just not in the context of a hearing or they don't get to appeal on that.

That's the question.

Are you as the investigator making sort of findings about who is the most credible witness, right?

Like, yeah, that's a good question.

That would be like that would just be in the written report and like, right?

Yeah, so that's kind of how it currently works.

And how many times has this occurred?

We've had one appeal, to my knowledge, one appeal to a case and I think the person came in person and showed up and defended themselves and they upheld the decision that there was no reasonable cause.

MSC's ability to hire a lawyer is probably greater than.

And I had mentioned that, yeah, there's kind of a parallel issue.

Yeah, landlords have lawyers.

to say the least, and if not, really difficult to manage.

Like the person with the lawyer would still be able to, you know, to put forward the information in a compelling way, like subject to, you know, rules of evidence or whatever it is that we are looking at.

I think any other questions?

This is great.

I hope it was, I hope it made sense without actually seeing the ordinance.

If I'm an interested party I can just click and go to, like click on the table of contents and it takes me down to...

Yay.

Team?

Anyway.

That's a lot of work.

Thank you all.

So, great.

Thank you, Todd.

That'll be it, and the work session is planning for our first expert panel.

So I can, if it would be helpful, share the organizations we've gotten responses from.

We have confirmed participation from Home to Hope, the Red Area Coalition for the Homeless, the NAACP, and Democratic Socialists of America.

And Central Virginia Legal Aid Society cannot participate.

We already did, like at a previous hearing?

Yeah, them and Haven.

Okay.

If someone could show up, that would be awesome.

I appreciate that.

Oh yeah, yeah.

That's graduation.

I happen to have a work trip that week.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, they've recorded them.

We're going to definitely need some virtual stuff as well.

We'll get an updated calendar.

Let me do that.

Sorry, it's 6-6, right?

Thank you for that note.

I just went to the wrong places.

You did?

Because it said Stitty Space?

Thank you for pointing that out this time.

I just didn't feel valued.

OK, I just updated that to Carver Recreation Center.

OK, great.

You watched me.

You guys have any, so we're going to, you said we're going to hear from.

LAJC.

Yes, LAJC.

Yes, I'm not sure if they're planning to end the meeting or if they're planning to just send you their recommendations.

Creed, yep.

And if they can't join, maybe I can see if they have a list of the things that they're thinking about as well.

They're based in Richmond, but they are the state Fair Housing Act sort of enforcer, right?

We just talked to them the other day, actually, Mariah and Brenda.

Yeah, well, and Brenda lives here, so we want to participate in that.

Is that the legislative part?

So even though they're a statewide organization, I think they might have some interesting opportunities.

But yeah, that's simply a good invitation.

Yeah, it sounded like it.

I think there's space going on behind us.

I swear I just heard thunder too.

You never know, yep.

Because I got to walk all the way tomorrow.

Worry about rain tomorrow.

You need to do a work plan check-in?

I don't know how hard it would be to share the screen.

I love it.

Thanks, Louie.

Please ignore the volume.

What was the meeting?

And figure out like who are the various actors who are already offering said training because there's a couple people already working in the space.

So either outcome or something.

Outcomes has big steps.

We can add that in.

Like, it's in process, contacted this person.

I haven't seen current status.

So let me make a note of that.

Check list.

Thank you God.

I will do whatever is helpful.

We'll come up with three separate options.

Okay, I think that'll take them up for a work session.

Like a little simple check mark.

Or you can just say done.

Okay, oh my god.

Don't do that.

We'll come up with something.

We'll figure it out.

We have confirmation that we are meeting on June the 6th at our conference.

Do we need a forum for a work session?

We're not going to put minutes on the work sessions, we just hold those to the next record.

Hopefully.

So we do have support there.

Not that in the world.

We did the new business out of order.

I felt like there was more going on.

So it's nice.

I think Martha's OK. Martha's OK. OK. Martha's better than Robert.

Get Robert out of here.

That is by the public.

We do not have any virtual attendees.

What's going on?

But you have a very spiffy jacket today.

We had someone come in today.

Thank you for giving me a special blessing.

Pocket Squares classic.

That's great.

Thank you.

Is there a question here?

Oh, my goodness.

There are no further comments.

We are adjourned.

Thank you.