City Council Meeting   10/21/2024

So we're at four, but I'm going to give Michael a few more minutes.

I know Natalie's going to be late, so.

Michael, how you doing, sir?

I'm all right, yourself?

Good, good.

Madam Clerk, are you ready?

Where are we?

Thank you, everyone.

I'm on, I called the Charlottesville City Council October 21st, 2024 meeting to order.

Ms.

Councillor Oschrin notified us that she'll be a little late today.

Second.

Okay, second.

Can you please cast your vote?

The first will be a work session to hear and discuss presentations that do not require a council vote followed by a closed session.

So good afternoon, Councillors and members of the public.

This work session would have normally on the schedule been my work plan update.

This would have been the first quarter update as to what's been accomplished in the past 90 days.

I decided to flip that a little bit and mess with you all and what you might expect and instead use this time to bring some attention to a series of community matters that have come up

on a quite regular perspective as it relates to comments and conversations that I've been a part of as well as I know that you all have been a part of.

So I framed it as community interventions.

A lot of people may be assuming that I'm simply going to talk about homelessness because they think there is one answer and one solution, and I'm here to dispel that myth that is not true.

But instead, what we're going to talk about is what I have categorized in the three areas of community safety

Homeless Intervention and Quality of Life.

And it is to talk about things that fall into each of those categories.

In some instances, they overlap.

But ideally, the goal is for us to begin to decide what bold action are we willing to take?

Are we ready to take?

And I've tried to outline as much as we've been talking about.

And to prepare for you the ability for us to move if you are so inclined, as, of course, everything that is on the list comes at a huge cost.

Huge in that simply it means that you have to make this decision over another decision.

And I know that we have a lot that we're talking about.

So I'm going to go through what is a litany of things in those three different categories.

But I'm standing in front of you today saying to you that we can do all the things that are on this list if you are so inclined.

But again, reminding you that that means other things won't necessarily be able to get done or become a little more challenging for us to try to do and will have to be creative.

and or wait on some other things.

So I wanted to acknowledge that this is about the request for action that we've gotten from so many different members of our community, respond to specific calls.

Individuals have shared what they think the answer is, what they believe with the context that they have.

The answer should be without the full context, of course, that we have at times of why certain things won't work.

This conversation is also meant to formalize the allocation of the remaining, to frame up the allocation of the remaining art balance.

That'll come as a formal action that I'll bring to you in the next few, between the next, the two meetings in November.

Ideally meant to expend those funds because we are near the deadline, end of year being the deadline for having to encumber all the funds that we have.

and then we still have until December of 26 to spend those funds.

But decisions have to be made by December 31st on what the remaining balance that we have can be used for.

I'm also going to highlight additional funding needs because of course everything is not set in stone as to how much it's going to cost.

It all depends on the scope and how long we're going to do the various things that we're talking about.

It'll highlight issues and conflicts, look to address some of the long-standing issues.

Improve Outcomes, which is really what I'm all about.

And ultimately, this is about defining and taking some bold action.

But I also want to point out that this is really about setting new standards and managing expectations.

We can't do everything.

You've all heard me say that on a regular basis.

But ideally, what this is meant to do is to help us determine what are some things that we can do.

And as it relates to those three topics, community safety, homeless interventions, and quality of life, in setting a standard, we're making some decisions about what we will accept, what we won't accept, and what it is that we're willing to mitigate in between those two decisions.

So everything that I do as I told you is that I'm going to constantly remind you of City Council's vision, which you said it is to be a place where everyone thrives.

And I see that as my marching orders.

That is what I'm here to do, to do everything I can to implement that vision.

So this work is all in that vein.

So when we talk about community safety, we're going to start with violence prevention and interruption.

The city has been involved with the county and the university for quite some time.

A variety of individuals in the community have participated.

and what's been labeled the Community Safety Working Group.

That group has been still working, meeting, they came up with a 21-odd page list of recommendations and then we turned it into a smaller group of two individuals per jurisdiction.

Chief Cotches and Misty Graves represents the city and they're continuing to work and I've always been operating under the mindset that they will evolve into a task force.

Task Force on Violence to continue to prioritize what is the work that we can do?

What are the various issues that keep coming up?

What are initiatives that we can take on?

And ideally that's what I'm hoping that we can continue to prioritize as we figure out what are some things that we can do to mitigate the issues that we see.

Youth Lead is the pre-arrest diversion program that we talked to you all about.

I think it was in the summer we talked about that being a priority that has been initiated

So in the process of training individuals who are going to help us with that and the goal would be to intervene in moments to keep an individual from who find themselves in an arrest situation not wrecking the lives forever.

The goal would be to intervene, try to do what we can as an interdiction and then maybe change the course of their lives before they become someone who finds themselves locked up for a long time.

There are some considerations that me and the Chief are going to continue to talk about.

I attended our ComStat meeting last week and the Chief can tell you I was very frustrated.

So I'm going to make this statement to the public at large.

Please lock your doors to your cars and your homes.

It is not a sign that this is not a safe place.

It's just common sense.

We need to lock our doors.

A number of the situations that have arisen in the past months have all been simply related to the idea that we got out of a car

and we walked away

told the team I was going to say that.

So he said, should I say that?

And I was like, I'll say it for you.

But ideally we've got to make sure that we just remind people that it's not a sign that this isn't a safe place.

It's opportunity.

We should just block that opportunity and we really should think about where we put our guns.

So some of the ongoing considerations and the things that I want to talk to the Chief about is, what about dispersing gun locks?

That says, bun, gun, buy back instead of gun, buy back.

So I don't know, that was me moving too fast.

And just really thinking about this community safety campaigns that could be put out there just to kind of remind our public that there are things that we should all do to keep our community safe.

Mental Health Supports.

We told you all about Anchor, the co-responder model that we launched in July.

I'll say gangbusters is the word, it's going well, it's going great so far, and we're already talking about the need for possibly expanding.

We knew that that was going to happen, but we're really in a place that we're thinking about there are additional things that need to be done.

I heard also from our police department that we're setting up a special code overnight

so that we can code situations that happen overnight when the anchor team is not available so that the next morning they can engage, that's a sign that we meet people overnight.

So therefore, it's clear to us that expansion is a priority that we should be thinking about.

So I'm looking at figuring out ways to fit that into our budget because that's going to be an ongoing thing.

So I'm not suggesting we spend anything on it yet.

It's just to point out that these are the things that we're talking about internally that we have to keep thinking about.

Some health interventions.

Deputy Marshall is managing our opioid abatement funds that are coming in.

She has been waiting for me to tell her that it is okay to use some of that money on two key things, Narcan distribution and sharks containers.

And I told her today, you can do that.

And the goal is that we can offer direct interventions on the outcomes that we see interacting with people in our community.

So we're going to move forward on formalizing that and really making, taking the right steps to setting this up.

and all of this is in the vein of just helping people who are struggling with various issues so that we can then connect them to services and hopefully break some of those chains.

And then Marcus Alert is continuing to seek interim steps.

That's our mandate.

We have to meet by 2028.

We still don't have new information to tell us what it is that we're supposed to be doing and I made the decision that we weren't going to wait.

So we're going to keep doing.

Anchor is an example of a part of that and the goal is for us to continue to figure out what else can we do.

What I would rather us do is edit what we already have deployed over time that has been working for us to meet the mandate versus waiting for the mandate to come with details because they're going to come and then we're going to be trying to figure out what are they talking about.

I have to watch what I said right there.

I almost said a bad word.

Bike Pad Safety.

You all know we've been hearing a lot and we've had some very situations over time as I've talked to you about building a sidewalk priority list, one that is an active list that helps us really frame the work that we're doing.

We've done good planning work here.

I've said that to you all repeatedly.

We have the streets at work plan.

We have the bike pad master plan.

We have done a lot of analyzing all the things that need to be done.

But never could I ever find anyone who could tell me this is the list that we're working on right now.

And that I saw as a problem and we've been working to address that.

and Ben Chambers who you've been able to hear from has brought forward three tiers of projects over a five-year outline and the goal right now is for us to figure out how do we fund that.

So that is part of the budget conversation that we're in right now for FY26 and then we look at that as being one of those things that will have to be identified in the CIP over the next five years because we want to make progress.

We want to move forward every single year.

I've added a category called urgent infrastructure, and it doesn't mean that anything else is not important, but this urgent infrastructure are just the things that we know we can do right now.

Let's just get it done.

We actually were able to go out on Elliott Street at South First Street and install additional measures to make it a part of a better safety situation.

Yes, we did that after we had a loss of life and we should not ever wait for that.

But in that moment, we were able to figure out what we could do and we got out there and did it.

That says to me, I have a team that can do the work.

It's us just being able to figure out how to prioritize that work and get it done.

So right now, the question that I've posed to Mr freezes and where can we go next?

What's what's new?

What are we going to be able to do after this?

and Michael Payne.

What if this city was 25 miles an hour everywhere except on the bypass?

What would that be like?

What would that feel like?

I don't know anybody's ever asked that question before, but I'm not afraid to ask the questions.

So now I'm going to push them to tell me why we shouldn't do that.

What are the drawbacks to doing that?

Because if we could get to that, we might actually see that it would be a better situation all around because we are a very dense area and we're talking about making it even more dense.

So that's something for us to give some thought to.

Yes.

Speed, humps, bumps, tables, all those words that you've heard.

I posed the question, and I've said to James, he cannot, affirmative now, that I said to him, can we do any of this stuff?

Because I know we say we can't do it.

But do we know that we can't do it?

And why can't we do it?

And he is on a mission right now to have conversation with all the parties to find out from them.

Are there reasons why we can't, why we should not?

And does it apply to all of those?

or does it apply to this one in this situation?

And I would love for them to bring back to me.

We can do a number of things in a number of different ways if you're interested in doing that.

And I'm saying to them, I'm interested in hearing that.

So I think we're going to try to be a little more creative about what we can do and bring those examples back.

Homeless intervention.

So when we look at homeless intervention, my friends at the Salvation Army,

are here because I did tell them I was doing this presentation and they said you want me to come and I said if you want to, come on.

So I've spent a lot of time with Major Mark talking about what the Salvation Army is working on and I'll say that I've been very pleased with what he has also offered in the way of recommendations of a solution for the types of things that I've been talking about.

but I want to focus on the Salvation Army a little bit because I want this to be received with the endorsement that it is meant to come.

Salvation Army is working on a new center of hope at its current location on Ridge Street and I am saying to everyone in this community that we should do everything in our power to make that possible and make it so as soon as possible.

That facility is going to make a difference and the things that we see and the experiences that folks are having in our community are directly tied to what is and what is not available in the city.

We need more of what the Salvation Army is doing and that is why I think it is important for us to figure that out.

What the Salvation Army has also done and what Major Mark has done is share it with me that I appreciate what you're talking about in the low barrier shelter space and I have an idea and he brought that idea forward and that idea has been what I've been focused on ever since and we've been in conversation with a variety of individuals and the goal has been to shutter the current Cherry Avenue thrift store and convert it to a low barrier shelter.

So that's the official announcement that that's what we're thinking about for anybody who hasn't heard it yet.

That's what the thought is.

is that we can move forward with converting that facility into a low barrier shelter.

The question is, how much is it going to cost?

And who's going to run it?

And those are the things that we're still working on.

But I want to say that that's what we're focused on.

And ideally, this gives those who are watching the opportunity to see this is what the new center of hope would look like.

It's amazing.

It's an amazing facility, expanded, more services, more rooms, more opportunities to help people in need.

And I think this is something that we all should rally and get behind and make it happen.

What I'm pointing out is that we as the city need to make a contribution to such a capital campaign.

What I've been able to do at this moment because the ARC funds that we have right now, we have $3.5 million available.

And that $3.5 million is to address a host of things.

And I am committing at this moment in the form of a recommendation that $1.5 million of that be given to the Salvation Army as a part of their capital campaign.

and that an additional $2.5 million be added to it at the end of this year when we find out what our surplus number is going to be.

And that too is an announcement because there will be a surplus.

It's going to be a significant surplus and that is why I know that $2.5 million will be available.

Does that include a commitment to the

to the Cherry Avenue project or is that separate?

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm not done spending money.

Oh, sorry.

There's there's a lot here.

But that is what I am offering in the form of a recommendation for what it is that I can see that we can we can afford to do with resources that we have and we do see that are coming.

In addition to that, with the closure of the thrift store, the Salvation Army is taking a financial loss because they're not going to be receiving the operating dividends from that thrift store.

So the recommendation there is to add $200,000 a year for the next five years to replace those funds.

So that's another million dollars to the Salvation Army.

I think that is part of what we can discuss.

We haven't committed to anything yet, so they're hearing this for the first time officially, too.

I told them that I was going to make announcements, but I wasn't going to tell them exactly what because I wanted to make sure I was ready.

But these are tied to the numbers that we have already talked about, the need being.

I think that's one of the questions and the way I would say that we would frame the agreement.

is that if you were to make the decision to reinstate a store, then we would not need to offset that loss.

But I would imagine based on where we are, and if the major wants to speak, we'll be able to do that at the end as well.

But that's going to be a big project.

That's going to take some time to do.

Now we're adding a low barrier shelter in the middle of all of that.

That's a good question.

Yeah, just to quickly tag on to that, I think there may be some community partners that could assist in finding a location, you know, particularly for something that's temporary, you know, to help fill in that gap, because I would think that you wouldn't want that facility or that

need gone for five years, people will find other ways to fill it.

So hopefully we can find a place.

And I think it may be part of your presentation.

If not, if you could, because it really helped me when it was explained to me, what is a low barrier shelter?

So we currently operate what is considered a high barrier shelter at 207 Ridge Street and the qualifiers for it being a high barrier shelter is based one on the property had children at the 207 Ridge Street because of our transitional housing.

So individuals who come in, we do a background check, we do sex registry checks to make sure that legally we can have children and

guest on site.

The program that is currently established is geared towards helping individuals to end their cycle of homelessness.

And so when individuals come in, they come in on a 21-day emergency stay, and they can come in for any reason or cause.

But during that 21 days, if they begin to engage with our case management team and begin to set goals,

obtaining their state ID, obtaining their birth certificates.

If they will start working towards those goals, they obtain another 21 days and so on.

Another three sets of goals, another 21 days.

We are currently seeing between 8 and 10 this last month we saw 11 individuals leave our shelter stabilized out of homelessness now as productive individuals in our community.

So it is a stop gap that we've created to help

The Low Barrier Shelter

is simply a warm, safe environment for individuals to get off the street, have an environment they can sleep in, and we can begin working with them.

Some of them may need to go into a rehab program to qualify coming into our program, whatever it might be, but it is a good bridge opportunity for us to bring them into the high barrier shelter environment.

And just last thing that I would like to say,

Sam mentioned the 50 beds that will be available at Cheriav.

Post construction, when we return back to the Ridge Street, that building would be about 95% available to the community and really there's capacity for upwards of 100 beds at that facility.

Thank you.

Any questions?

So one thing I want to pick up on in regards to that is because I wasn't thinking about what could happen after the Salvation Army moved out because it would be a co-located situation.

But that idea of there will still be capacity at this site.

When they move means that we won't be finished thinking about what else is possible as a homeless intervention in a few years after we get the center of hope on the ground as well.

That was powerful for me because what I know is opening the shelter alone is not going to get everyone off the street.

We all know that.

But what we will do is we should be able to reduce how many people are out on the street and why are they out there on the street.

and then we can start to target specifically what that is.

If that means that you need to be in an environment where this is available to you and this is available to you then maybe we have to build that space out but we would have the flexibility in a co-location near the center of hope because it's just up the street.

It makes a lot of sense that we're actually creating the synergy amongst this building being where it is and having capacity even after we finish what we've been dreaming of for the past year.

So just wanted to point that out to you as well.

The low barrier shelter at this time requires about $750,000.

I think is the last number I got for facility improvements.

I am suggesting that we offer a third of that up out of our art funds.

And the goal would be to hopefully encourage our friends in the community, including the county to join us in chipping away and making that cost go away.

And if we had to come back and revisit that, I think we could look at

The other part of the low barrier

Any individual organization, because I have not gotten a commitment from an organization to serve as the operator of the low barrier shelter.

But what I am suggesting is that we need to dedicate an annual contribution towards the operations of shelter facility as well.

And that is at $500,000 a year.

So that would be adding a contractual agency relationship to sustain low barrier shelter operations.

I doubt that that's enough to cover what it could end up requiring, but at this present time we have not been able to get enough information to know fully.

So at this moment I'm just offering what I feel is a comfortable amount.

for us to be able to consider working in as our space.

And then we go beyond that when we get details as to what the needs may be.

We'll offer that the Salvation Army has indicated that if we would like for them to consider running the shelter, they would consider doing that, running the low barrier shelter.

So then it would be quicker and easier for us to get what the cost projections would be.

The goal will be to take what is the thrift store and convert that to a low barrier shelter

I'm also going to now start pointing out other things now I'm spending money, Councilor Snook.

This is coming $1 after the next.

Internally, the city needs a better handle on what's happening on the street.

We have a number of organizations doing great work.

They're all doing work in their lanes.

And some of it is not necessarily feeding its way back to us.

It's not necessarily feeding its way back to us in the form of reports on grants.

It's not necessarily coming in the way of us being able to glean as much as we need from a grand proposal.

So I'm suggesting that we need to have some folks out there with no restrictions on how they serve, who they serve, why they serve.

They simply are city staff with a goal of finding out

Why are you in this situation and what can I do to help you?

How did you get here?

What has happened to you?

All the things that matter in us being able to transition you back to self-sufficiency.

And I am proposing that we do that in the way of a street outreach team.

So that would be two staff members who would have the job of just constantly being out and about and interacting and engaging and finding out information to bring back.

that can be processed and synthesized by this city government for all that it does in investing in this work in various ways.

Yes, it's different.

That's coming later.

So what I'm suggesting here because I have and Deputy Marshall can tell you I've been reluctant to just create positions for the sake of creating positions and for the city government to take on service delivery.

I'm not a fan of the idea of doing too much of that, but I'm willing to go where I feel we need to go and this in my mind is a gap area that needs some attention.

What I'm proposing here

is a two-year grant demonstration that is for us to hire two people for two years.

They know they're in a grant-funded capacity, and the goal is to go find as much information as we possibly can, understand what it is that we can learn from all of this, and help us figure out how to use it.

It may turn into a number of things.

An example of what it could turn into is communities across the state of Virginia right now are establishing offices of homeless services.

because they know that they're faced with the issue and it's not going away and they're building a team inside the government to focus on the issue.

This could be the beginning of that for us, but I'm not ready to make that commitment just yet.

I want to test the notion and that's what you'll see that work demonstration a few times because I'm ready to do forward movement.

We just need to do something to see what we can figure out and stop speculating on what can and can't be done.

So that is the street outreach effort and you do see that fourth lineup there says deploy the already funded homeless services coordinator.

We've had a position that's been vacant intentionally for probably two years because we haven't been able to figure out how to do what it is that we're doing and that's why I'm trying to bring this to an end.

So for the low barrier shelter

That's part of what we have to figure out, and that's what we would be negotiating with partners.

That would be the conversation I'm looking for us to be able to have.

This person would be in that conversation.

Ms.

Marshall would be in that conversation.

And the goal would be that if we set that up as a place for people to go, there should be something when they get there.

It's not just a bit or a meal.

So the Blue Ridge Area Coalition for the Homeless is our continuum of care.

The COC today has a person and a half.

Yes, a person and a half, and they're responsible for working in a region, so I don't know why that makes sense to anyone.

And they are who is really supposed to be the cornerstone, the centerpiece to bringing all the various parties together.

In all the conversations in the three years that I've been with the city, there's been a capacity concern.

Ashley and I sat down with the director, Shayla Washington, and talked to her about what is it that you've learned since you joined this organization and got in there, and the word capacity can't count how many times it came up.

There is so much more that needs to be done in that space.

There's probably money that we could go after.

There are probably opportunities for us to partner with others that we just don't have the bandwidth to be able to take on.

We don't necessarily have the ability to engage directly with the partners as much as we need to.

So I'm suggesting that this continuum of care, the continuum of care is worthy of being also designated as one of those contractual agencies because their work is never going to end.

They are here to work on this issue.

We have the display of the issue in a very significant way.

I'm not going to butcher it.

Ashley, do you have anything that you would offer in that space?

So in BRAC's updated strategic plan, they themselves identify several administrative functions, everything from helping to support marketing outreach and education of the organizations that compose the COC to many others.

So this is part of their actual existing strategic plan where they really wanted to expand some of those administrative functions.

No, because we're going to be doing street outreach.

There may be occasional things that they would do in that space, but the goal for me was to make sure that that organization could focus on working with the partners and doing what needs to be done there, because there's work that needs to be done there, too.

The next slide here is, this is a pallet shelter.

This is a rapid shelter product.

It has been making waves across the country.

Ashley and I have ventured into two of them now at ICMA conferences.

And we have found communities across the country that are doing micro communities where they are finding a location and they're adding these units in the form of single and double occupancy spaces.

It gives you the ability to be inside versus outside.

There are some facilities that have

a restroom inside and then there's separate restroom facilities so that you truly can make the micro community happen I am suggesting that we acquire six of these and figure out how we make our version it may not necessarily be a micro community it may end up being individual placements in areas that we can make it work but again at this moment we have these funds available we can do something that can lead to a demonstration of something that could be built upon and that is ultimately what I'm recommending here

Would this require any change in zoning or building codes?

He's going to figure all that out and make sure that everything works.

I've sent him pictures of things that I want to do and he said we could do it, but I didn't send him this picture.

I'm not even looking at him right now because we're going to figure it out.

And maybe this is TBD.

I guess these are just basically small manufactured homes, which I think we all hope.

It's all shelter.

No one is charging rent to live in these.

They're meant to be temporary, but there are some places that are doing them in large quantities.

The city of Birmingham is putting a hundred of these into a couple of different communities and planning to do even more if they have to.

but there is management that comes with it in setting up the micro community so that's part of this could end up being a partnership opportunity for us with one of our nonprofit partners and if not then James is going to go find us some slots and figure out where we can put them out there and we'll manage them ourselves if we had to.

But again, this is just to get some units on the ground.

I would say this is like kicking the tires.

We're just testing it just to see.

Is this something that is applicable here?

Is it something that we like?

Is it something that works?

And then we can expand it into what more we can bring about and make happen.

And

just to clarify the other bits that would be from Art Money would be the grant money for the two outreach positions and the $250K for the Blue Ridge area coalition?

Okay.

No, that's repeat.

You're running my balance for me?

Just tell me how much I spent.

I don't mind the checking.

Check and make sure.

I think I got it.

The 250 for the low barrier shelter is also ARP.

The 250 towards the conversion of the thrift store to Right, but the 200 per year for the store replacement?

No, that would be budget.

That's the IP.

and I will say that Ms.

Hamill has been consulted on all of this.

So she's not falling out of her chair right now.

Wait, I'm sorry.

That's the commitment.

And then the 250 would be for the initial.

Yes, correct.

I'm checking myself.

Nope, let's go back.

That's about the store replacement, the offset of income.

The one-time facility improvement for the shelter, for the conversion of the store to the low barrier shelter is $250,000 from ARP.

That's budget.

No, I think we would have to determine that based on who we're partnering with and how that works.

I don't know that we would be ready to make that commitment just yet.

So we've already done that.

We allocated art funds.

We are allocated most of our art funds and then we pull some money back because those projects didn't happen or their budgets came in less than or we changed the scope of the project after we started doing it across the city.

Yes, so we want only ARP conversations that you will have with me going forward after December 31st is how we're reporting the shutdown of spending every dollar that we had and hopefully that we're not sending anything back to the feds.

All right, so in quality of life, I'm going to talk about the downtown mall, because it's a centerpiece, and it is ground zero for a lot of things, good, bad, and otherwise.

But ideally, what we need to do is prioritize the implementation of our action plan.

We've done a lot of work in getting that done, but we have not yet made the commitment of dollars going to the many things we have talked about the tree plan, we have

initiated that work with Parks and Rec so that they can begin taking trees down and replacing trees.

But there are many other things that we still need to do.

A couple weeks from now, friends of downtown, friends of Seville downtown will

initiate a brand new holiday lighting display.

It'll be a very colorful experience.

It'll be a nice, attractive thing.

I've already seen it.

It's pretty.

I hope people will just accept it and let it be because it's nice enough that we should be able to.

But I have been able to spin my wheels a little bit and say, maybe we should, once this is done, convert these to all white lights and leave them up.

Leave them all year round.

And that just adds into that whole experience on the Mall for lighting it up and making people feel safe.

So part of what the future consideration could be is what does that cost for us to be able to do that?

And to me, that's a simple advantage to having a commitment to doing a project like that, but not letting it be just that.

As long as it doesn't hurt the trees from long-term exposure, which I'll ask that.

And every tree can recover overnight.

And it's OK if we turn it back on at 6 PM or something like that.

I think to me, this is about we have an amenity in our community.

It's been here almost 50 years.

We're about to celebrate this 50-year anniversary.

Let's make sure we're truly taking care of it.

And it's been a lightning rod for so many conversations to go north, south, east, and west.

I'm not interested in that.

So for me, I just want to make sure that we're doing the things that we say we need to do.

Adding benches.

I know people don't want to add benches because they feel like if we do, then homeless people will take them and I say we'll learn to live with that because we're going to put them back out there and we're going to find additional ways to bring seating that doesn't require you to be in a cafe space, which meant you had to spend money in order to come.

to Charlottesville's downtown.

So that's where I'm going.

That's where I am directing staff's attention.

And anyone who wants to talk about me can talk to me when they want to.

We're going to evaluate cafe spaces.

We'll make changes as we need to there.

But I point out there's been an absence of an ambassador and a true contact for the downtown mall from day one.

That doesn't make a lot of sense.

If you are out on the mall today and something happened to you, you trip and fall, who do you call?

There's nobody that's coming to run unless somebody saw it and called 911.

But if it didn't rise to that occasion, there's no person in an office anywhere that anyone knows that's who I call if something happens out here on city infrastructure this way.

And I think we need to do something about that.

So part of what I wanted to share with you is in a recent trip to Pittsburgh,

They solve problems in other communities.

I want to solve those problems here.

This is a Pittsburgh party.

I walked into it and used it.

My wife said, you're really going in there?

And I said, yes, I am.

I went in there so that I could have an experience with the Pittsburgh party.

And so I could come back and talk to you all about this.

We need restrooms on the mall that are available, period.

And we know that.

And we're spending money right now leasing restroom access that doesn't go deep enough into the night.

We have restrooms on lockdown attached to the Downtown Transit Center for obvious reasons of what we've done in the past.

It is time for us to move past all of that.

And if I have to go, I have to go.

And I need a restroom.

And everyone knows this.

And we shouldn't argue about this anymore.

So I am ready to push the envelope.

And I'm going to show you what I'm thinking about.

This is a green flush bathroom that doesn't require utilities at all.

Your porta-party companies can service this facility.

They back up to it just like they do to their blue and white and green and white structures that they put all over the place that are made out of plastic.

We can dress it up and we can do certain things.

Ashley and I had a conversation with them, and they would love to come here and help us figure out where we might be able to put these, how we could put this.

This is just one version.

I think I saw 25 different versions, so if you hate it because it's ugly, there's something else we can do to it to make it look better.

But again, this is about solving problems.

I don't want to be here five years from now and not know that we haven't solved this bathroom problem.

That's how I see it.

We should be able to figure this out.

And no one wants it next to them, but that's what they say about everything.

So we're going to have to learn to live with some of these things.

And that's just what I'm offering up is recommendations.

This is, I want to go back.

is something that costs money.

One, it costs money to acquire them.

And I couldn't remember the number, Ashley.

Was it $80,000 for a unit?

I think that was right.

$80,000 to buy a bathroom that doesn't have to have water because it's already in there.

And it works through its internal system.

It captures what it captures and it has water to do what it needs.

That's why I went in.

I didn't go in and use it because it was inside an exhibit hall and it wasn't available, but had it been outside I would have gone in there and used it.

And I know we've talked about

Well, the one that we looked at, they didn't have the one that we saw, it was pretty, it was really a metal building.

It was metal all over and it had two colors on it, if I remember correctly.

and it had two doors.

The door that you go in to access the facility and the second door was the guts of the unit.

It had a huge tank full of water and it had a huge bay down below that was covered.

And the guy described it to us as he said, whoever in your town services porta potties can back up to this and service this unit just the same.

And I said, you're joking.

And he said, I am not.

So is what we're seeing there one bathroom?

That I believe is one bathroom because I think one side of it is the contraption that I'm describing and then it's actually only one accessible bathroom on the other side.

But this isn't exactly what we saw.

It was a little basic.

It was metal all over.

But this is meant to share with you that I am interested in buying three of these and getting them here

You're trying to make people mad at me by telling them where it's going to go.

I don't know that answer yet.

I think part of what I'm saying is the demonstration component of it means it may not all three of them may not need to go in the mall.

maybe we have discovered this is how we can mitigate that problem and I think that also solves the issue I know there was a little controversy about cutting the bushes in Market Street Park because that's where people were going to the bathroom but the solution is to provide a bathroom and so

So I think that's what I'm getting at is that it's two-fold.

Again, it's not just about the mall.

I know the mall is the place where we don't have the restrooms, but that's the reason for picking three.

It's like two could be associated with the mall and one could be a prototype for solving other problems in other places.

Obviously there's several bathrooms by the pavilion that I take from the lease agreement.

We don't have full control over in terms of like the hours they could be open.

Right.

Obviously for this or anything, the main problem is probably just maintenance and being on top of whatever damage anyone can do to it.

Has there been any outreach if the city was able to assume that maintenance component for those existing bathrooms if they would be open to operating them?

I'll say there hasn't been recent outreach.

I've been told that there's been outreach in the past.

There was not interest in the past of revisiting the agreement because it would require opening the agreement to make that change.

But I have expressed to Mr. Engel that I'm interested in having that conversation again.

I think part of what I would like to be able to demonstrate is by figuring out where else we can put them.

The stress of that being the only place that people can go might actually kind of go down a bit and it might be easier to actually close that deal.

break down in it in terms of covering just ongoing maintenance of them.

I got a mouth slide for you.

But that's, that's, yes, we got to, we have to be able, I am sure, if I go by what I've been told, in order for us to be able to get the lease agreement open that then restores use of those restrooms, we have to solve the problems that have either happened in the past or the fear of happening again is what it would take.

And that would be ongoing maintenance and repairs of things that happen.

So for the green flush restrooms, the portability, the price tag for purchasing the unit at the beginning sounds great, but is this like a printer where it's cheap to buy and then the upkeep is really expensive?

Yeah, I think you're pointing out the work that still needs to be done.

I was told that Dumfries, Virginia is putting one of these in as we speak.

And I told Ashley we may have to go for a ride so we could take another flush.

and go see what's going on up there.

Because I would like to, again, this is about kicking the tires.

Let's dispel all the myths about what can't be done by trying to do something.

So that's my concept.

To your point, Councillor Payne, in Pittsburgh, as you see, black and yellow branded colors for the city in Pittsburgh Steelers.

Fans will know that well.

As I walk through the city, this is what I saw.

people taking care of it.

They're working, they're cleaning, they're doing whatever needs to be done.

I assure you, things that they are doing today is exactly what you have heard from your businesses along the mall when they have said, I need help.

Before I open my business, I have to do all these other things that have nothing to do with inside my business.

If we can then deploy what they call a clean team would be an opportunity for us to be able to just produce a cleaner city.

and I think that's something that we should also be open to.

So again, I am recommending that we use funds to retain the services or integrate it into Parks and Rec with an expansion of team members, a clean team for a two-year pilot and that would be $450,000 from ARC.

The goal would be for us to add additional staff and resources that we would need that they would work a schedule.

They'd be branded the same way and you would see them in key areas.

My initial concept is you would see them on the mall all the time and they would be in and out of the side streets as well.

looking at all the approaches too.

And they're not here.

They would not be there just simply to clean.

They're not there to agitate people.

They will begin to build a relationship with those same people because they would see him and they become known to them.

But also if someone were coming out of a store with a couple bags and they needed somebody to help them get to their car in the garage, there you go.

Somebody could help them do that.

That is customer service.

That is welcoming.

That's the environment that I feel is though in places that I've been

Around this country when I go and I'll remark on like how cool it is that they do that I'm just saying Charlottesville is time It's time for us to do that too and this is on our amenity that people love to come and say Oh, how did y'all do that because I have heard that how did y'all do that?

Yes, I

So when I flip back to that slide, you saw me talk about action plan implementation, advancing the tree plan, holiday lighting display, and that was really about converting it to permanent.

So $650,000 is maintenance of infrastructure and management of the amenity, $275,000 to acquire the three green flush

It's a combination of the 450 and the, I knew you were checking my math, the mall manager position and

the year round tree lighting my anticipating what it's going to cost because I don't know that number.

Yeah, I'm not giving you mixed numbers.

Okay, great.

No, that will be separate.

We already have that in the CIP as an emergency item and we would continue to have to look at it that way because we know that

That's going to be expensive and ongoing, so we would have to separately prioritize those.

This maintenance and infrastructure is really about the day to day, the daily cleanup, the daily responsiveness.

It might, at times, maybe if a couple of bricks were standing up, kind of tapping them back down if we can get the right people.

If we could get a couple of individuals with skillset that might be able to address when one of the power outlets goes out or something like that, we might be able to internally manage some of that.

Those are some of the conversations that I've had with Public Works and Parks as to how it would be nice if we could get this.

Just be responsive.

Whatever it is, we can deal with it.

I just want to be able to say we can do that.

So that was a lot.

But before I get your thoughts, what you don't see is a plan at all whatsoever by me suggesting that we are sweeping the model of homeless individuals.

I know people are waiting for me to say that that's what I was going to do, not doing it, not saying that because I don't believe that is what you want.

and ultimately I do not believe that is what the larger community wants.

That is not a solution.

I'm not interested in doing things that don't seem to work towards solving the problem.

That is what this whole presentation tonight has been about.

Ask the Chief to come in case you wanted to talk a little bit about what do we have in the way of problems but I'll share with you that.

I've been working with the Chief now for over a year and he hasn't been ugly to me yet.

He has been cooperative.

He has done things that I know he doesn't necessarily want to, that he wishes I would say something different.

But I know that he has been responsive, and you all have seen him in action, where he has been careful in how he has handled individuals that they don't have a place to go.

And we have continued to have those conversations, and he has continued to add additional personnel into the conversations to be part of the action, for we have moved people.

We already have.

and we did it quietly and I did it on purpose because I wanted to see that we could do this without really spiraling out of control and making everybody mad and calling me heartless and all the things that I know would likely come if people don't like the idea of moving someone.

But we have provided bags to individuals and said, can we organize your stuff in this bag with you?

You carry it wherever you need to go.

But the goal is to give you the ability to carry that around and have it as you need it.

But if it's more than what you can handle in this bag, which is more than what one person can carry, we have a pod at the Salvation Army that the Major has made available to us.

We may need to have another one by the time we finish getting people to take us up on the offer to let us store the bigger things, the many things that you have that you can't move around.

One, I'm trying to discourage people from having all of that stuff around them while they're on them all.

I'll be honest and say that, but we've also been managing that well because people have taken him up on this offer almost every time he's asking if they will let him do that.

That has been why we don't see what we saw just three months ago.

And I measure three months because I go out on the mall now on a much more regular basis.

And I'm looking to see what it is that's happening today that was happening then.

And I don't see the big piles of things in places.

And I know it's because of what we've already been doing.

We're going to continue to do this work with compassion.

I am not interested in telling somebody to get up and go, and I know they don't have a place to go.

But I do have to help people get off the sidewalk.

No one should be on the sidewalk.

You know all the reasons why I feel that way about sidewalks because I can't stop thinking about them.

But ideally we need to make sure that we're helping you by getting you into a place and we'll work with you to get you the solutions that we need, the wraparound services that we need.

But it is about setting a standard and it is about managing an expectation.

and it is important for me just to be able to express that that is where I'm coming from.

I've tried to be consistent and say that and nothing has changed in how we do that work.

I know that the Chief needs help in the form of the law to do certain things when people refuse to do what it is that we ask them to do.

So far things are working.

We're using what is on the books today

Other communities are looking at ordinances about encampments and things like that.

I'm not here asking for that tonight and I'm not going to take away his ability to say that he wants that if he thinks that is what we need.

But ultimately what I'm suggesting to you is today is not the day for us to say that, but we would love to try to deploy all these things because this could make a difference and it may not even come to that when we're finished.

Yeah, thank you.

Amazing presentation.

Thank you so much for you and your staff for just thinking about listening first from us and staff and mainly from the shop owners and the public.

about what's happened is, you know, we got out of letters and things each week, each month we get together, we get letters and things from the clerk.

I usually get a letter from someone who said that they've come here

and they may not come back here again because of, you know, some of the things that they've seen and witnessed.

And I mean, I understand this is part of growth of a city, part of a city.

This seems like a way that we can do to address it.

So I just want to kind of, we've been kind of asking question as we've been going along.

Yeah, I just want to say for all of these three sections that you've provided here, you know, I think it is a very well-developed list.

It's very thoughtful.

It reflects a lot of intention and I want to thank you and your staff for all of that.

I appreciate the support from the Salvation Army and being a good partner for us.

Yeah, I thought everything, you know, I thought it was particularly around the homeless piece in the quality of life.

Those two components were very well thought out and well integrated.

I would say that if I had to, you know, prioritize things, I would probably put buying $600,000 worth of

you know corrugated metal boxes maybe at the bottom end of my list all the other things above that are going to really I think require a lot of investment and focus and I think will really be the more impactful pieces but I can understand wanting to try out the palette concept it's just as I look at the list I would put that at the bottom just my view

But everything else I thought was fantastic.

I think going to the very first piece about, if you call it communities, but basically around sidewalks and crosswalks and all of those things, I want to thank you and your staff for the responsiveness from the community.

There's a lot of pressure that we're under.

The community may not always understand all the implications of what they're suggesting, what may seem like a really great idea when you go crunch the numbers or you go, you know, look at your engineering books and maybe something else is recommended.

I just appreciate the fact, we're reminded ourselves, myself included, that we still need to be

responsive to these requests, even if our immediate reaction might be why that won't work, trying to find ways to make it work.

I think the conversation around speed humps or speed tables or whatever, I've been wondering about that for years.

I'm glad there's going to be actual conversations with the fire department and the police department about what's

I think lowering the speed limit across the city to 25, if that's something we could do by waving a wand, I would do that tomorrow.

Someone pointed out in the last meeting the fact that cars and vehicles are just so much heavier now, there's more momentum.

So I, you know, walking this line of being responsive and listening to people and sometimes people would just have a really great idea or they'll point out something like on Preston or Preston and Cabell Connect.

I'm like, yeah, we should do something about that soon.

But other things, it may be like, well, that's a good idea, but there's a bigger picture.

So just want to encourage you guys to, and I think you are doing that.

I just know it's hard.

To the extent that it's possible, just as like a 60-second overview, one of the things that came up is the continuum of care, just for the community who may not know what that is.

Could you just explain, either you or Deputy City Marshal, just what that is, why it's important, how it operates in terms of our network of homelessness services?

Of course, I'd be happy to.

So HUD requires localities who are receiving federal dollars for unsheltered individuals, including HAPA, which is for unsheltered individuals with HIV AIDS, to have a continuum of care.

BRAC serves as our continuum of care lead.

In communities across the country, you'll see continuum of care leads in various places.

For example, in the city of Lynchburg, the lead is a nonprofit called Miriam's House.

in the city of Roanoke.

It's the Council for Community Service along with the city.

So they kind of both work in tandem for that.

And what the Continuum of Care does is it brings together all of our nonprofits who focus in on providing supports for individuals who are experiencing homelessness.

So for example, our good friends at the Salvation Army would sit on the Continuum of Care.

Everything from having discussions of who is entering the system

where then we would have conversations about how to help individuals who are entering the system as well as conversations about prevention.

So some of those federal dollars can go towards prevention efforts as well and rapid rehousing.

So we want homelessness to be infrequent and brief.

So rapid rehousing dollars can help people who go come into being unsheltered, move back out as quickly as possible.

So our continuum of care lead, again, is BRAC and they really think of them as

Then I take it critical for

figure out how to allocate those rapid rehousing dollars as well as other vouchers to identify the individuals who cannot access that and then hopefully move out of homelessness.

So the actual contribution I guess for the Salvation Army's existence beyond contributing to the capital campaign and what it would take to get the low barrier shelter would be that $200,000 offset per year.

And what is there maybe this question for the Salvation Army?

The goal for the

And at this point are you seeking all of that outside of local city investment philanthropically?

All of those options are on the table.

At the moment, our primary focus has been seeking philanthropic contributions from individuals, corporations, and foundations.

That's what Major Van Meter said, yes.

And while we have you up here if anyone does want to contribute where's the best way for them to find that link or find you all or

The easiest way to do that if they're interested in giving online or learning more about online, I like to search for the Salvation Army Charlottesville, Virginia.

it gives donor the opportunity to do both of those items.

You know, you need low barrier around shelter.

People could move into that to a higher barrier shelter and then permanent supportive housing to permanently move out of any temporary housing is critical.

I think that's part of the work that has to be done.

I think that's kind of the point that I'm getting at as to why I'm suggesting making the capacity investments into the continuum.

It is why I did not let go of the idea that the concept of a continuum without a low barrier shelter at the bottom rung

was not really a complete continuum in my mind because somebody needs a place to start and outside shouldn't be that start.

So that's just me personally speaking in that regard.

But I think the reason why you all have not heard from me on the Avon Levy site and I guess I'm making another announcement, there is no plan for that site because there's no need for us to have a plan for that site just yet.

Once Premier Circle actually comes alive, the shelter is in place, the center of hope is up and running, we will know a lot more about what's going on and then we can actually tailor that project to the needs that we may have.

It has always been speculated that I was going to do a shelter or the crossings too.

We're going to do what's needed.

That's the answer.

Yeah, I guess just other thoughts.

I mean, I agree with what others had said.

I think

The cost of these will probably have to be triaged and be a multi-year process to figuring out how to fund it all.

I think particularly those permanent recurring staff expenses are going to be, or in contractual agency ones on a yearly basis, seem like they'll be the hardest to figure out and the ones that require us to most figure out how we're going to phase that in over years.

But we make some different decisions internally.

That's an option too.

Right.

But I'm just thinking that's like over a million dollars in just permanent recurring staff expenses in addition to collective bargaining, other department needs that we just know exist across the city.

So maybe it will be possible.

I'm just anticipating that seems like it'll be the hardest.

So I don't know what the answer is, but you know, in terms of just triaging, what is the most critical things to fund first?

I don't yet know.

And I did wonder particularly for these investments that are about just the downtown mall specifically, if we would need to move to something like a business improvement district like Old Town Alexandria or other places where

The businesses themselves came together to basically tax themselves, but it is all going directly right into that business district.

Greer is here for the reason that we all can speculate because we're working together.

Yeah, and the final thought is just maybe this is already the approach, but just anything around outreach on the downtown mall, I think it may be helpful just to expand it beyond that, because we know there's already people under all our bridges, parks out in forests around, and I think anytime there's a touch for people in one area, there'll be an increased shift to another area, and we'll just kind of move around.

as well as these other interventions that, you know, it sounds like the city's approach is being open to collaborations with any of our providers.

There's not a locked in idea that, you know, we only want a partnership with one provider or specific ones.

Thanks.

Thank you for all of this, this info would definitely

is comprehensive and comes from a good place.

Like you said, we're not out here to punish people.

We're out here to try and help and help in a way where it's actually effective.

So I like that very much.

I also like how we're spending art money.

Well, I mean, you know, I just, I have Christy living in the back of my head saying one time money, you know, and how to allocate that differently and specifically.

So, you know, that this seems like an excellent way to use that money.

It's a, it's a acute problem.

These are real people and, you know, they need to be treated with care and, you know, speed.

So that's great.

I,

I also am excited to hear about the desire to add those two positions and to fill the homeless coordinator services role.

I've spoken with people who work in this community and that's something that they would like to see, so it's good to see that that's part of the plan.

There's a security of regularity, you know, when there's someone who has

that position and hopefully stays in it for a long time and then has the support of the funded grant positions.

I mean, that gives not just the people on the street, someone they know who they can talk to, but it gives people who are operating within the continuum of care, someone they know they can talk to.

And then, like you said, there are gaps in the continuum.

So is that even really a continuum?

That helps maintain that, I think, more functionally.

and then I want to read more about the pallet shelter project because I agree, it does seem kind of like it is good and if we didn't have other money we needed to spend elsewhere, great.

It's also part of me is like we let

Private money build homes, there's more homes.

Again, that's different than free and shelters.

But what happens after the shelter is built and then we build these other shelters, what happens to the pallet shelter?

And how long is the lifespan of one of those?

And more details, I'm going to definitely look into that more.

That's part of the demonstration.

Before we spend the money.

Yeah.

You're getting into the little work that still is left to be done, but absolutely.

So just, you know, how have other communities responded?

And is it just like one big hot parking lot full of people?

Yeah.

You know, is that the best use of that space or not?

And then the

Yeah, I was already going to ask about the lighting display in the downtown hall, so I'm glad that's something that you all have already thought of.

It just adds liveliness and warmth and friendliness and friendly spaces are good places to be.

The bathrooms as well.

I know that'll be helpful as a policy.

They can be dressed up.

So, you know,

It's great.

I really appreciate this.

I know it's something you've been working on for several months, and thank you so much.

And also, Salvation Army, for really stepping up to the plate.

I know this has been something you all have been thinking about since it's been about a year ago.

Yes.

So thank you all so much for stepping up to the plate and saying, you know, we want to be part of the solution.

We're very fortunate to have nonprofits in this community.

One thing that I, and wasn't presented, but I, and maybe other counselors as well, is that when they're in other cities, when you have individuals at intersections asking for money, in other cities they put up signs that go, you know, don't, you know, please don't give money.

directed them to this place.

Can we or have we considered that?

I don't need an answer now, but these are some things that I get a lot.

And I like the idea of the ambassadors on the mall.

I just think we just need more presence, and I know that they can kind of filter to maybe some other part, you know, right off the mall.

and even though the crime may have been going down, it's the perception and that is one of those things that people see someone and they just feel, I think this is something we can do.

I think we can get a lot more revenue from them all if we increase the

the foot traffic, if you will.

And also the idea of the mall manager, that it's good to kind of have a point person for it.

I know that the other things that you mentioned that there's still, you know, that needs more research.

Yeah, it looks good there.

So anyway, lots more investigation to do by really like where we are going in this direction that we're being caring and compassionate but also kind of understanding the perspective of all of the users of the ball.

And you're right about the

the articles, because I walk up and down the hall, too.

I have seen less of their house goods or their articles, you know.

So I'm glad that they feel trusted us enough to give them really their life, everything, you know, for most of them what they have, that they trust us with that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any other questions or comments?

So what's the next step?

And will those be public hearings?

There'll be action items on an agenda.

for the

Is that something we'll get a presentation on a later date?

I mean, that to me is kind of the work that we'll be looking for the continuum.

That's what we want BRAC to help us with, being able to figure out amongst all of its members what the limitations are, what the opportunities are, so that then we can get that and match that to some of the experiences that our folks are having out on the street, put it together and maybe we can come up with

let's do this and let's try that so I'll say that we have already I think we've now established May is when you get a state of homelessness in the city we've done that two years in a row we'll do that and we can continue to stick to that I think we'll in the mental health space we're talking about it more and more in different ways you're going to get that in multiple bites I would say but to say a planned update on mental health not yet

I am going to meet with Region 10 soon.

I'm digging into various questions that we may have and looking for opportunities there.

So there may be something that comes from that.

And I met with the health district director, McKay, twice, two weeks ago, and we're talking about getting the health district better engaged from the COVID years when Dr. Bonds would come here on a regular basis.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any other business?

No.

Yes, sir.

I move that the City Council close this open meeting and convene in a closed session as authorized by the Virginia Freedom of Information Act as follows.

Number one, under Virginia Code Section 2.2-3711A1 for discussion and consideration of performance of a specific named employee of the public body.

Second.

Second.

Can we vote on this?

Okay.

Thank you.

I would not be on that list.

That's why I'm going to an island.

Thank you.

I call the Charlottesville Business Meeting to order.

Yes, sir.

Second.

Thank you.

Can we vote?

Before we move on, there's two items that we discussed in the closed session.

One was to make an appointment for the Finance Committee, and Michael Payne and Natalie Oschrin will serve on that, and we also held the evaluation for City Manager Sanders, and that went great.

We love him.

We want him to stay forever.

He's doing a great job getting a great team together, and so just one lot everyone know that

We're happy with his work in the direction of the city.

So thank you so much, counselors, the public, and especially you, Mrs. Saunders.

We will now have a moment of silence.

I have one announcement before we get into the proclamation.

Before we begin, is Abby Wallace?

We'll still read it with them.

I have an announcement for Ms.

Maxine Holland.

She wanted to let us know that on November the

9th from 11 to 3 at Carver Rack.

The Veterans Committee of Central Virginia will commemorate the 10th African-American military experience with a program called Telling Our Stories.

African-Americans have participated in every war the United States has fought, yet they are frequently excluded from the broader narrative.

The mission of this committee is to be more fully

who contextualized and honored through education and telling of the untold stories of African American

participation in the United States military past and present.

There will be military historians there, military exhibits and veterans telling their story.

Again, it would take place on November the 9th from 11 to 3 at the Carver Rack.

And if you want more information, please call Maxine at 962-4592.

That's 462-4592.

Thank you.

I do.

Okay.

On November 10th Sunday, Sunday November 10th at 2 o'clock will be the neighborhood walk for the 10th and Page neighborhood.

This is led by the Charlottesville Biking Pedestrian Advocacy Committee.

The meeting spot is at the Lugo McGinnis Academy.

Again, that's November 10th at 2 p.m.

It's usually a couple hours and you do like a slow walk through the neighborhood.

So it's a really nice way to get out and learn

New part of town if you don't live there or get out and chat with your neighbors if you do live there They happen every month on the second Sunday different neighborhoods and so again 10th and page on November 10th also want to remind people that Early voting is active during the week regular hours from 8 30 to 4 30 at the registrar, which is just over in City Hall annex next door and

Thursday hours are extended to 6 p.m.

and then starting this Saturday, this Saturday and next Saturday, so October 26th and November 2nd will be open from 8.30 to 5.

There is curbside voting for qualified voters, which is those with disabilities who are over 65, so you can just pull in, you call, they bring you a ballot and you don't even have to get out of your car.

Two things I wanted to mention.

One was I had the privilege this morning of being at a nice little ceremony for marking the 10th anniversary of the Network to Work program that Rich Schuyler and PVCC have been running.

They really do a lot of very good work in trying to help people get started in

in life, in careers, in occupations for folks who don't necessarily go on to college and other places like that.

And the folks who have put out the Orange Dot Report have, as of today, released Orange Dot 6.0.

I have to confess I haven't read it yet.

I don't know what it says different from what 5.0 said, but it was plugged as being something that was well worthwhile.

And the other thing I wanted to mention was that I had also the pleasure to be at a

a gathering of the Greenbrier Neighborhood Association on Saturday to talk about the and to officially cut the ribbon on a new path in Greenbrier Park that parallels the stream and people kept asking me well what about the other part of the path what about the part that's going up to to Mickey Drive and I have to say

that it's one of these things that we've been promised for a long time.

And Mr. City Manager, I hope we can get it done sometime real soon here.

Work it on it.

Yes, I've got to read a proclamation.

Camp Holiday Trails Day is Saturday, November 2nd for their 50th anniversary.

Whereas in 1974, Camp Holiday Trails, a year-round non-profit camp based in Charlottesville, became one of the first camps in the region to welcome children with diverse medical diagnoses and their siblings.

And whereas for the past 50 years, Camp Holiday Trail has empowered over 10,000 campers by offering traditional camp activities and teaching them to manage their medical diagnoses in a supportive and inclusive environment.

And whereas many campers have multiple diagnoses, including cancer, diabetes, sickle cell, hemophilia, juvenile arthritis, or recipients of transplants, 47% also have mental health diagnoses.

And whereas camp holiday trails believes in raising awareness and destigmatizing differently abled individuals, promoting inclusivity and understanding within our community.

and, whereas Camp Holiday Trails provides financial aid and scholarships to 100% of campers, ensuring that every child can attend camp regardless of their financial situation.

Whereas each year over 600 dedicated volunteers make the Camp Holiday Trails mission a reality by continuing to offer a safe, nurturing, and empowering environment where children with medical needs can create lasting memories, build lifelong friendships, and develop essential life skills.

Thank you.

Is anyone here from Camp Holiday Trails?

We'll make sure that they get that.

It's a wonderful asset in our community.

I've volunteered there many times.

It's open for retreats and things like that.

I have not.

You can let me say that this is Charlottesville with the help of the Legal Aid Society, Legal Aid Justice Center is running an expungement clinic.

It will be on for people with a criminal record of now unfortunately under Virginia law at the moment expungement only applies to charges that you were found not guilty of.

or the charges that got dismissed that might change next year.

I have to emphasize might because the statute was actually adopted about four years ago to change it effective July 1, 2025.

But you never know when the Governor and the General Assembly get to meeting who knows what they're going to do.

Let's hope that that persists.

But anyway, right now if you've got it, let's say you got arrested sometime for a drug offense or something and you want that off your record because every time you go for a job it shows up and people say, oh my god, that's terrible.

You can get that expunged.

It's at city space in the parking garage basically.

105th Street from 10 o'clock to 3 o'clock, October 31st on Halloween.

If you want details, the easiest thing I can tell you to do is just go to Google, enter Expungement Clinic Seavill, and it'll take you right to where you want to be.

But this is an important thing that members of the Charlottesville Malabar Association have been doing along with the Legal Aid Justice Center, and it's good work.

Thank you.

We're now at the item for community matters.

We only had two people to pre-register, but we have opportunities for 16, so 14 additional persons.

So you have three minutes.

Good evening.

My name is Maria.

I live in the city of Charlottesville.

I'm speaking as a member of the People's Coalition, an organization made up of working class folk, most of whom are black and most of whom have direct experiences with incarceration and policing in the city.

We're here to comment on the vote that you will eventually be asked to make on whether or not to approve city funding towards the $73 million jail expansion project.

Within the next few months, I predict that the jail board authority will tell you that it has done its due diligence and will then ask you to approve of spending the city's tax dollars from hardworking people on a building that will continue to be used to punish and cage our family, friends, and neighbors.

If you haven't already, I encourage you to read Jason Armesto's investigative reporting from February and March of this year.

detailing the board's actions throughout this project, including ousting dissenting voices from its membership, hindering democratic debate of the best use of taxpayer money, and misleading the public about the state reimbursement process.

I've also heard board members claim that opponents of option three lack compassion for those in jail, but this deflects from the real issue.

While upgrades are needed, the current option is too extravagant and diverts funds from root cause solutions and prevention.

We've taken time off work to attend these meetings, time out of our days to pull our neighbors, and we've tried to be engaged citizens in the board's process.

And yet we've still concluded that option three is not what's best for the city or the jail's occupants.

Almost every door we knock out our neighbors are not even aware that this use of taxpayer dollars is being contemplated.

The People's Coalition is interested in seeing a truly democratic process that results in an option

perhaps closer in scope to options 1, 1A and 2 that address the structural needs of the facility negatively impact in health.

We're asking you to task mostly architects and the board authority with going back to the drawing board, but not in the same way that they've been operating, rather with tangible and significant improvements to public transparency and feedback application.

Doing so would result in a solution where Ulstic Holder's concerns are appropriately addressed.

In the meantime, regardless of the size of the jail expansion project, a new jail won't address the root causes of how our loved ones end up in jail in the first place.

Our people are struggling with the rising costs of living while their wages stay stagnant and resulting in an even greater need for the public services that are lacking serious investment.

Not to mention the history and legacy of racial profiling in policing, prosecution, and more.

With a combination of institutional, racial, and economic barriers to getting one's basic needs met, it is no wonder then that we're facing a mental health crisis.

By caging your constituents won't address the roots of their struggles, and folks simply can't get well in a cell.

Counselors, we urge you to take seriously your vote on the jail expand—that your vote

Hi, I'm Kevin Cox, 311 Fairway Avenue, Charlottesville.

Hi.

Recently, somebody requested a marked crosswalk be put on Elliott Avenue adjacent to X at 2nd and Elliott

You know about this, the acting traffic engineer sent out an email to all of you and copied me on it today explaining why he's denying that request for a marked crosswalk at that intersection.

His denial is very interesting.

One particular word in that denial is really telling and that word is arterial and explaining why that particular street is inappropriate for a marked crosswalk at that intersection.

He defined the street as arterial, arterial.

I looked up arterial because I didn't like the sound of it.

It sounds like highway.

And it is.

And I got a lot of definitions that are all basically the same.

One of them said it's a highway that leads to or from an interstate highway, an entrance ramp.

LA that's not an entrance ramp.

Anyway, I looked and here's some of the things about an arterial road.

It's a high capacity road.

that carries longer distance flows.

It's designed for unimpeded high speed movement.

It includes four lanes or more.

Speed limits typically range from 45 to 55.

That's not Elliott.

The next category down is a collector road.

A low to moderate capacity road that moves traffic from local streets to arterial roads designed to provide access to residential properties.

Elliott is a residential street.

It's not a highway, and it shouldn't be designed as a highway.

and I really am concerned that our acting traffic engineer is going to continue to treat that street like it is, in his words, an arterial.

On a collector, speed limits typically range from 25 to 45 miles an hour and a collector may include traffic calming such as narrow lanes, marked crosswalks, or roundabouts.

That sounds like Elliot to me and I hope you direct the acting traffic engineer to put down that marked crosswalk.

Thank you, Mr. Cox.

We now have opportunities for 14 other speakers.

Hi, I'm Renee Bird.

I'm located at 404 Robinson.

I'm the person who put in the request for the crosswalk at Second Street Access to X. The request that I put in for this crosswalk was very quickly dismissed by the city traffic engineer.

I was very confused by this at first, but it's very clear to me after having some back and forth with him that he does not really think that this is a priority and he expects people to walk instead of going into the main access to X, which on Elliot and this side of X is the main way most people walk into or cycle into X. He thinks that people are going from first street, one block up, or sixth street, which they are not doing.

People are not going to walk and they do not walk through parking lots or on both sides through parking lots with no sidewalk access to get into X. It's completely indirect.

So first of all, I don't think that the traffic engineer understands how people are using this space.

Second of all, as Kevin Cox was just saying, Elliott has become faster and faster.

People get off of fifth.

They're going 45.

They go down the hill.

They continue to go 45.

I've seen people go 45 and 50 miles per hour.

My question is, why should I just accept what the traffic engineer says, which is that people should go to first or sixth when I am walking at a legal crossing here that many, many people, and I've talked to so many people in the past couple of days who use this crosswalk completely legally and validly,

Why should I be waiting for 50 cars to pass by going 45 or 50 miles an hour before I'm able to cross with my small child in a stroller?

Why should I be watching cars speed up when I try to cross the crosswalk?

And you may notice I'm wearing all red.

We all know that a woman died at this space

One block up just a few weeks ago.

Every year, and people forget, this area between Fifth Street and Sixth Street, people die, pedestrians die, and cars flip over from going too fast.

Last year, someone flipped their car and died, and the year before, somebody flipped their car and died.

This is becoming increasingly very dangerous and I want to impress upon you how important it is that we do something about the street before it becomes one of the deadliest streets in our city.

Okay, so I have 45 seconds left.

Kevin addressed a lot of the things that I wanted to say that I do want to let you all know that I have started a physical petition and an online petition to do something about this.

The traffic engineer is very dismissive, essentially says no, he's not interested in hearing our opinion about this.

I do think that he's misguided in his perspective that crosswalks in this area would actually be more dangerous because it's so fast.

The real problem is that we are prioritizing speed for cars and not changing the road so we can add speed bumps to slow people down instead of allowing them to just cruise down as fast as they want to to get to a stoplight where they eventually quickly have to stop.

There's no point of them going that fast.

Thank you very much.

Hi, good evening.

My name is Susan Cruz, and I am the executive director of the Community Climate Collaborative, or C3.

And I'm here tonight to speak in support of the CPACE ordinance, which is on the consent agenda tonight.

I wasn't able to come the last time you were discussing it as we had just completed our party for the planet.

Thank you so much for supporting all of that, for supporting that for everyone who came out.

CPACE is essentially a financial tool that allows commercial building owners to improve their buildings with clean energy or energy efficiency programs in a way that allows them to recapture, get a faster return on that investment or extend the life of that

financing that they need to do if they're planning to sell the building at some point.

And so it's a really important tool that I'm super glad the city is going to be supporting tonight.

In 2019, we actually brought a letter before you signed by 41 different businesses and nonprofits in the community asking you to implement the CPACE ordinance.

So that was back in 2019.

Fortunately, since that time, it has now become a statewide program, which makes it even easier for the city to implement.

And once this comes into place, we want businesses in this community to know that C3 is here to help.

The city will then be here to help with clean energy projects or energy efficiency projects that they want to do on their building and with incoming incentives and rebates from the Inflation Reduction Act, which will come into place next year.

We will be able to help more and more businesses in this community.

So grateful for your support of this climate initiative.

and want to encourage business owners, building owners in the city to reach out if they want to lower their energy costs and make our city cleaner at the same time.

Thank you, Susan.

Good evening, everyone.

Good evening, Ken.

Good evening.

Just to put you on notice, you'll be getting a more formal invitation in the next week or so.

But First Baptist Church at 632 West Main Street will be having its celebration of its 161st year anniversary.

November 10th, with services beginning at 11 o'clock.

It would be incredible if you all could attend.

First Baptist Church is the oldest black congregation in the city of Charlottesville.

So it would be wonderful if you all could come out and attend.

As I said, it's Sunday, November 10th at 11 o'clock.

And it is with great pleasure that we share our excitement with our church family and the community.

As the celebration of our anniversary begins, we also will be welcoming our new pastor elect at that time, Reverend Arthur Long, from the greater New Jersey area.

Thank you so much.

Anyone else like to speak?

There'll be an opportunity at the end of the meeting to speak as well.

Consent agenda number two minutes October 7th regular meeting three resolution to appropriate Virginia State Police heat FY 25 equipment reimbursement funding $12,500 second reading for resolution for golf maintenance equipment replacement $350,000 second reading

5.

Resolution Appropriating Funds for Carlton Mobile Home Park $379,000 Second Reading 6.

Ordinance Establishing Commercial Property Assessed Clean Energy or CPACE Financing Program Second Reading

Seven, Ordinance for 240 Stribbling Avenue Plan Unit Development Proffer Amendment Second Reading Eight, Resolution for UVA Vehicle Donation for Emergency Medical Services Fellowship Program Nine, Resolution to Appropriate Community Development Block Grant COVID Relief Funds from HUD in the amount of $90,321.98, one of two readings.

10, Resolution to Appropriate Funding from the Virginia Department of Housing and Community Development, Virginia Homeless Solutions Program Grant Amendment, $93,564, one of two readings.

11, Resolution to Appropriate Funding from the Supreme Court of Virginia Behavioral Health Docket Grant

$115,458, one of two readings, 12, ordinance to amend city code article 14, tax on probate of will or grant of administration, sections 30-396 and 30-397 to conform with the Virginia code section 58.1-1717.1.

13, ordinance to amend city code section 30-426, funding of courthouse security personnel to comply with Virginia code section 53.1-120.

Second.

Can we vote?

Good evening, Mayor Wade, members of City Council.

Again, James Freeze, Deputy City Manager for Operations.

I just have two announcements relative to upcoming council meetings.

One, on December 2nd, staff will be presenting a performance update on the Veo scooter contract during the city manager's report.

So there will be opportunity for public comments during the community matters section of the meeting.

and of course an opportunity for council to engage in dialogue and ask questions of staff about December 2nd, December 2nd.

During the city manager's report.

And then there's going to be a in January, we're going to do a work session to discuss the project schedule for planning and zoning ordinance related items that arose out of the civil plans together process.

So you recall we talked about a schedule of projects back in the spring, I believe it was, and that included things like looking at our environmental ordinances and regulations, things like stormwater and floodplains.

It included a small area plan for 10th and Page.

That was, I'm trying to remember if that was on there.

Great.

Yeah.

All right, a couple more things.

The Charlottesville Affordable Housing Fund grant program is now open on the deadline for applications.

It's November 22nd, so that's a new item that just came out for any developers in the community that might be looking for funds to do affordable housing.

and there are still tickets available for the Masquerade Halloween Party at Carver on Sunday, Saturday, Saturday, October 26 from 6 to 8 p.m.

I can look at the city's website or call 434-970-3053 for more information.

and this weekend I had a chance to go to the Safe Halloween event on the downtown mall.

Thank our team, especially our Parks and Rec team, for pulling together that event with all of the various partners and sponsors and had a few minutes to hang out with folks at Fry Springs Beach Club yesterday for Oktoberfest.

So I'm trying to get around a little bit more and get around and visit with folks.

Have a good time, even though it's on the weekend.

But again, just wanted to point that out.

I made a comment earlier during the four o'clock session, and I told the chief that I was going to repeat it again today.

Last week, I had the opportunity to sit in a ComStat meeting, which is a internal police review process.

And I'm going to make the statement to our public, please lock your doors.

I think that shouldn't be something I have to say, but it is something that I need to say.

And the reason for that is that we have found that a number of

occurrences of criminal activity has resulted from not just the simple going into that unlocked car, but what they do with what they find in that car.

We're leaving guns in cars and those guns are being used in the commission of crime in other places in the city.

So I just want to point that out.

The statement that I'm making of lock your doors is not a sign that the city isn't safe.

It's just that we need to use common sense and lock our cars, lock our doors and make it harder for moments like that.

and it has caused some additional conversation on my part for looking at gun lock distribution and gun safe opportunities as well so we can better manage those of us who choose to have a gun in our possession, but we should really take a little bit more care with some of those items.

So I just feel that as my public service announcement tonight is please lock your doors.

Chief Cott just be happy.

Yeah, he'll be proud.

Yeah.

Any other information?

That's it.

and the action items and the first item is a public hearing and presentation on the 2024 Ready Kids Youth Services proposal.

Thank you very much Mayor Wade, Counselors, Ms.

Thomas.

It's my pleasure to come before you tonight to urge your support for the work that Ready Kids is doing on the behalf of children and families in our community.

They are one of, if not the oldest non-profit, directly serving children and families in our city.

This is directly related to the COVID relief funds that we were provided by HUD.

One of the most profound and enduring impacts of the ongoing pandemic is on the mental health of children, youth and children, and right at the very forefront of the work to help these families as ready kids.

They have been struggling

Some very important needed funds to continue providing work.

It will allow at least 14 families and children to provide new services and help them tackle the enduring wait lists that they have to provide these services to children.

If I'm available for any questions, I'd like to welcome Melissa Cohen, Amy Troyer from the organization.

Thank you.

I just wanted to introduce myself.

Thank you City Council for hearing us tonight.

I'm Amy Troyer.

I'm the Grants and Relationships Manager at Ready Kids.

We've proudly served our community since 1921.

Over the past century, we've not only supported local families through counseling, early learning and family support, but we've also evolved and adapted to meet the changing needs of our community.

In fiscal year 24 alone, we made a meaningful impact on over 5,000 local children, families, and early educators.

We sincerely appreciate

you your consideration of our proposal to support critical evidence based services in the city of Charlottesville.

Thank you so much.

So, um, councilor, any clarification questions before I open it up?

Anthony, did you have anything else?

Okay, if no other clarified questions now open the public hearing is there anyone who would like to speak on this item?

Okay, with no, I don't see anyone, you know, wanting to speak on it.

If not, I will close the public hearing.

No, this is one of two.

I prefer to move it to consent agenda.

So we'll put on a consent agenda for

November 4th.

Thank you all so much.

The next item we have on agenda is a public hearing to authorize the lease of 1520 East High Street.

Good evening, Council.

Chris Engle, Director of Economic Development.

This item is a lease of public property, specifically a portion of Zero East High Street, which the city purchased about a year ago.

upon purchasing that property the city inherited two leases one was for a residential property and the other was for a business operating on a portion of the larger parcel and that business is Ravenna River Company and The intent at the time was to maintain those two leases they had time on them and

at the time of closing.

So we've let those run out.

We've now, at least in the business, in the case of the business, created a new lease that has been worked through by the by the tenant and their attorney, city attorney's office in our office, the tenant

here tonight if you have any specific questions of him or his business it's a very simple lease it works similar to a ground lease they're essentially leasing ground from the city for the purposes of operating their business as everyone knows this is next to the river and subject to

being inundated by water.

So the items on the property are all movable and whatnot.

And those are still maintained.

There's no inhabitants on the property per se.

It's a business operation that can be moved quickly if conditions require.

But in any case, it's a ground lease.

It's a five-year term.

They pay a monthly rent with an escalator that's built in, which is standard to most city leases.

and they have agreed to maintain a public trash can on the property and also to maintain the meadow, which they have had some interaction with already over their time in this space.

So we felt it made sense to continue to have them to maintain the portion of the property.

I think those are the highlights.

I'm happy to answer questions.

Thank you.

Yes, sir.

Just one question.

As a practical matter, signing this lease

Yeah, so I'll offer that in the consideration of leaving it that way.

In fact, we are basically stating that we do not anticipate any movement on the site within that five-year period.

And that has just really taken into consideration what things we already have on the list and being able to move our way through that.

Because we know that this particular site brought forth a lot of attention

No idea of mine all by itself is going to move, so we're going to be doing a lot of community conversations about what is possible, what might be even probable, and the fact that the conditions are what they are in the low-lying land is going to really restrict some of the options.

And then I had one other question.

Microphones so people can hear at home.

I'm Gabe Silver.

I'm the co-owner of the Rivanna River Company and yeah, with a lot of attention on river fronts throughout the southeast and

We did just fine.

It spilled out a little bit, but not enough to damage us.

I was mainly thinking about it in terms of, okay, we'll look ten years down the road, whatever the city's going to end up doing with it.

People kept telling us, I mean, I can remember in my lifetime that property being completely flooded.

And people said, oh, that doesn't happen that way anymore.

We have dams upstream and so on and so forth.

Oh, yeah, I think that's a fallacy.

I'm sure.

I am certain that that property will continue to be 80% of the land area subject to flooding.

Thank you.

Is there anything in the agreement or, you know, I'm not sure what the plans are for the Riveter River Company.

You don't have to have them yet.

Any alterations are subject to our approval.

I don't think they have that as a plan, but I don't think you did either, but I'm just checking to make sure.

As a clarification to Councillor Snook's comment, this is for, I should have clarified, the parcel is 23.8 acres.

This is for about five acres.

So the balance of the property, if we wanted to do something in five years in that time period, we could certainly do it.

I think there are no immediate plans.

Yes.

Okay.

It's not showing the entire thing.

It's a little deceiving from that perspective.

Thank you.

Other questions or comments from council?

If not, I'll open up the public hearing.

Would anyone like to speak on this?

Second.

Okay, can we vote?

Thank you.

The motion passes five to zero.

The next item on agenda is the ordinance amending the city code for the police civilian oversight board composition.

Mayor Counsel, good evening.

My name is Eden Ratliff.

I'm the deputy city manager for administration.

And tonight is the second reading for a proposed code change authored by

the city attorney's office relating to requirements that would need to exist for members of our community to serve on the police silly and oversight board.

Brief recap of the last council meeting.

This was presented, you considered it, you discussed it.

There was discussion that the PCOB might want to kind of talk about this and provide some recommendations to the city council.

They had a very interesting meeting last week.

Councillor Payne was also in attendance.

A lot of robust discussion.

I kind of enjoyed listening to them.

They take this work very seriously and they really were trying to contemplate what changes could be made to the ordinance to kind of address the concerns of council, to kind of allow for there to be a kind of a wider audience of potential applicants in our community to serve while also addressing the fact that, you know, this is designed to serve the City of Charlottesville and there should be some ownership

and that for folks who are serving on the PCOB.

Our presentation tonight, which is not really a presentation, is not designed to encapsulate that entire conversation.

It was robust.

It eventually kind of delved into the idea that there are other changes that they think should be made to the ordinance, to the Code in general.

There are things that kind of give them pause about making kind of piecemeal changes to the ordinance.

I think, frankly, they could spend the rest of the calendar year potentially kind of going through that process.

And I think the PCOB is

kind of rightly contemplating that, but as was the desire of the City Council, it did go to that meeting, they contemplated that, they had some conversation, they kind of heard the concerns of the City Council and realized that they didn't want to rush to be able to make recommendations to the City Council as it relates to your concerns and why this

changes being proposed.

So I'm here to listen to you, to your thoughts about it.

You are in a position, if you desire, to approve the changes that were recommended by the city attorney's office that kind of originated all of this, but we'll kind of see where the conversation goes.

But it is second reading.

We could make the change and move from there and eventually go back and make kind of more comprehensive changes to the entire ordinance if you desire that, or we could take a number of other paths.

So I'm here to answer questions that you might have.

I'm sure Councillor Payne has

Yeah, and I would just add, you know, attended that meeting, and I guess my impression was I think that the PCOB acknowledged that it was an issue that they've had unfilled vacancies for so long.

They acknowledged that, you know, they need to do deeper community outreach and trust building in order to get more applicants.

And that that work, you know, isn't going to happen, you know, in a matter of two weeks, that's going to take a long amount of time and intentionality and

as part of a larger conversation across Charlottesville in terms of our boards and commissions.

It did seem like they agreed that they were open to amending this before taking on the whole ordinance and seemed to generally align on both from that meeting and then afterwards some sort of tiered approach, but they didn't get the exact language, the tiered approach being where

If nobody who applied meets certain criteria after a certain amount of time, the pool of people who could qualify for the board could expand, but if anyone met those criteria, that would be given first preference.

I think it seems like they anticipate that they may be able to finalize among themselves a vote on exactly what they look like sometime in the next few weeks.

Regardless, this currently isn't any kind of tiered approach.

Just my personal opinion is it maybe makes sense for us to just defer this until November to give them a little bit more time to finalize their recommendation and whether we go along with it or don't go from there and probably finalize something next month.

I do think that the tiered approach they outlined probably makes a little more sense than our first past year.

I think the board is small enough where breaking into committees doesn't really present itself as an option.

I mean, Councillor Payne put it correctly in my estimation, and I think the PCOB addressed that issue head on.

This is a tough board.

It's a deep ask of members of our community in terms of volunteer public service because it's challenging.

And I think it's something that a lot of people will say, well, that's hard.

and maybe I can find another area to volunteer and it's really important work and they need more help, right?

There's significant vacancies.

You guys know this.

We've been dealing with this for quite some time now.

you know other different opportunities for us to try to get members of our larger community to kind of get involved yeah of course that that's why we're here right the city attorney's office recommendation here it's just one option do I think the PCOB might come up with other options sure but I think from my perspective you know we're looking at this opportunity okay what are we prioritizing do we want to

get the perfect solution to get more, you know, more volunteerism here, or are we trying to fill these seats?

So it is, I think, the members there, and I think we would agree, Councillor Payne, there was significant disagreement among them and a hesitation to rush into a conclusion, which I think is a good thing, right, taking pause.

From the email exchanges since then, I think it seems like a majority of the board has aligned on

The concept.

sometime in November, they wanted to hold a special meeting just to finalize their recommendation.

So I certainly appreciate all that and respect all their work.

I think if nothing else, a deferral would be worthwhile because what is in front of us right now is not a tiered approach of any kind.

It's simply an expansion of the criteria without a statement that someone would be given first preference if they match a certain.

I think that will be ideal.

I support the idea

Wade forever for it.

I agree.

and I would just like to note that we always have the power to have our own sense of tears.

Yeah, that's what I was planning to do.

Yeah, so the plan is they submit their ideal tiers.

And I know that the Human Rights Commission, I mean operates that way.

And we have had people from outside the city on the Human Rights Commission who had deep local ties with organizing work, nonprofit groups.

So I agree with that.

I think it seemed like their largest concern.

was that if it's not in writing, they're concerned that over time maybe the city wouldn't prioritize people who come from historically disadvantaged and overpoliced communities.

Okay, so we are going to defer this.

Do we have to take any action, you know, to

Second.

Second.

So if we vote for that deferral, okay, vote passes 5-0 to defer into the second meeting in November.

Thank you very much.

Hi, Council.

I'm Ben Kobe Planner with Neighborhood Development Services.

I've been working with the application team with Moss Restaurant in Belmont.

They are requesting an access easement, or not an access easement, rather, an encroachment easement for their proposed canopy footers and an eve hanging off of that canopy to cover their patio space, to provide an outdoor space for their customers to eat that's covered.

So we've been working closely with the application team on getting this together for you.

I've been working with city staff.

I've been in contact with the engineering department and the utilities department.

And generally, as a policy or as an opinion of those folks in those departments, we are against an encroachment easement in this case.

It's one thing where

Permit structure added into the public right-of-way that are, you know, required that there's no way to get around these things.

However, a smaller canopy with an eave that is within their property line would be possible for them.

Okay, so any other comments?

So help me understand, so the encroachment would be, once construction was completed, is my understanding correct that the sidewalk itself wouldn't have any obstructions on it, but the right-of-way issue comes in terms of underneath the sidewalk.

So the impact of someone in a wheelchair or walking on that sidewalk, there would not be an obstruction there.

Yeah, that's right.

Right.

That's right.

But how much?

Yeah, you know any infrastructure projects that are be running out there could be impacted by it.

You know we talk with city staff, we don't have

You know, some of these projects come down to inches matter on some of these, you know, utility easements.

So if there's any future projects out there, especially considering I believe there is some existing infrastructure out there, you know, any encroachment could matter, especially, you know, Belmont's pretty tight.

So any encroachment could prove to be impactful down the line.

And then finally, in the packet, it was included that some options in reconciling the right-of-way in the built environment by performing a land swap were facilitating a purchase agreement.

Was there anything specific in mind with that?

Yeah, just a general possibility.

I think a canopy would be a good idea for them to have.

So if you guys are willing to consider land swaps, the right-of-way out on that corner is pretty messy in terms of what's built and where property lines should be.

It's not one-to-one.

There are a few examples of city sidewalks and road encroaching onto private property and vice versa.

Yeah, and obviously, you know, in Belmont, the plating and built environment there is so, you know, old and tied to the history of that area that, you know, it's not uncommon that there's a lot of these strange kind of issues in terms of where things are plated.

I guess I just have a horror, I'm not quite understanding the

Negative impact for the city on it versus like is it just like an extreme?

caution on our part.

I'm sure the development team would be able to go into that as well, but my understanding would be they might lose maybe a table or a two or a seat or two.

If constrained to fully build within their property line, obviously that pushes some of those posts back and just takes away some of their seating.

Yeah, I'm not to your question, Mayor.

I'm not sure.

I'm going to vote on it.

I'm still thinking about it.

I can certainly appreciate the fact that we want to set ourselves up so that there's no future issue if utilities needs to run some things through there.

And it does feel like two feet, maybe if it's, quote, just losing a table, maybe it's not the end of the world.

On the other hand,

I don't want to be unreasonable if we're sort of, I mean I can appreciate the fact that staff is wanting to be thoughtful about the future and the evolution of that, you know, the underground

location there for utilities or whatever, but I'm just not sure that that future possibility outweighs the fact that you have a citizen, a resident that would like to have more expansive use of their property.

And let me say my perception of it is having

I'd say I've probably had about 15 or 20 cases over my 45 years as a lawyer dealing with, in one way or another, some encroachment, a minor encroachment on a boundary line.

And it's amazing how much trouble a foot or two ends up causing.

I took the map on page 138 of the packet and tried to go out to the scene to figure out what was being pointed to where and it didn't work.

So I don't have a clear visual image in mind, but if you who, if those of you who have studied the issue more

say, okay, we could clean up these messy lines if we could do this.

I would see that as a positive benefit, but the result would be that we would end up with everybody being compliant, I would hope.

And, you know, partly the reason, my reason for saying this is just because I sort of think that

If we're going to have boundary lines, we ought to be respecting boundary lines.

Part of it is because I've recognized over the years that they get folks into trouble, often in ways that are never within anybody's contemplation at the time that the decision gets made.

If there's a way to clean things up that would improve everybody's way of looking at things, that's fine.

I mean, we're looking at an area that is about 100 yards from one of the largest projects we're going to see in the city of Charlottesville in the next few years.

I have no idea what that's going to mean as a practical matter, except a whole lot more traffic in downtown Belmont.

I just think that if we start looking at, well, okay, we'll give them a foot here, we'll give them a foot there, what harm could it be?

I just suspect that at some point we're going to find that it's a harm, but we won't recognize it until it's too late.

So that's my basic concern behind all of this, and I would be inclined

Maybe?

I don't really have any questions.

I'm here.

So again, just to confirm, the footer underground would be wide enough so that the pole can be at the exact corner of the property line.

Because the pole has to be supported by a wider base.

The wider base underneath the sidewalk would exist.

That's correct.

Does the sidewalk get disturbed during the building of this and rebuilt after, or is it

During construction, surely the sidewalk will be cut out and replaced after conclusion of construction.

I'm not exactly sure.

That's right.

Yeah, part of me is like why, if things are wonky, why perpetuate the wonkiness, but then I see how practically it's not going to be different than it is now.

As someone who has dug footers before by hand, they are annoying, but also they are

not the most permanent, a footer like this where it's just a single 2x2 or 18x18 is not like a full building foundation.

So at some point there is a project where this needs to be resolved.

That's a really good point, actually.

So question I have is if we grant this encroachment, then we decide we need to do something later.

Do we get our, can we say take back?

Yeah.

Under the agreement there is language that if there is a public project that, here we are, in the event that the city needs to move the footers or any part of the encroachment in the future in order to make improvements in the public right of way, the city will provide prior written notice to Trimont within 180 days of receipt of such written notice.

Trimont is that at its sole cost and expense will remove the canopy improvements.

which are part of the encroachment and restore the public right of way to its original condition.

I see.

Right, but to Natalie's point, I mean, do we know how deep the footers are?

I mean, they're like two foot deep.

I don't know that.

Can we get you on mic so people can hear, please?

Either way.

No, it's three feet by 18 with a post in the middle, but half of that three feet.

And actually, if you look at the plat, only five of the six footers in question encroach

You're right, that's in the narrative, but if you look at the property line and the dots in the middle of the footers, if you see that square as three feet, you can see that on footer A,

Okay.

Correct.

By 18.

That's what the engineer specified.

Okay.

Okay.

And theoretically, you could replace the column within the Oh, absolutely.

And a more expensive footer could be built if, for example, a gas line had to go exactly where the footer was.

You can re-engineer it to do that.

But we'd like to do it with economically efficiently as possible at this time.

And just to answer an earlier question, I don't know if that's

for what he's going to do now.

But we were talking about the likelihood that there would be a further city need and Ben can speak to this.

Standard practice right now is you put your utilities in the road because you don't want to tear up the sidewalk.

I dare say it would look better than today.

And the contractor we have is Monarch Concrete, which the city uses for its own work when they repair their own sidewalks.

So we wanted to have somebody that you guys trust and know, and Mike's been here working for 30 years.

I have a question for Brennan actually.

Just looking at, if you don't mind, looking at the just aerial view of this intersection on the map.

It's, and I use this intersection a lot.

Not currently.

Okay.

So I'm inclined to support it.

Maybe it's my work on the tourism board where I know that a seat, a table over a course of a year, a month, you know, makes a big difference.

So I'm inclined to support it particularly after hearing the impacts.

And if something down the road does happen, you know, that it wouldn't be

it would be easily rectified.

Any other comments on this?

I would say likewise I'm inclined to support it unless there's some additional information from staff I'm not aware of that this would present some huge legal or cost challenge down the road that if there was a major expansion of that road or utility installation but as best as I could understand it it sounds like in the agreement it would be their cost to

get rid of this infrastructure.

And as Natalie mentioned, this is not like a foundation for a major building.

This is pretty feasible to get rid of in a worst case scenario that it needed to.

So other comments or questions, at least as far as support for this.

So we can get an idea.

It looks like Michael supported.

I supported.

I'll just say, I can't tell you how many times people have said, oh, it won't be any problem.

If I may add something Councilman, so I mean the the main issue here is for me as the city engineer is not how easy or hard it would be to

You know, change this in the future.

But for me, it falls back on, is there a way to design it currently that Councilman Snook's point that falls within the existing boundaries?

I believe there is.

So, you know, we don't know how

Law has changed, how whatever changes, we don't know in 50 years if we go to do a project and the ownership has changed to a point that they don't want to, or they want to fight it or whatever else.

If this was something that was a real need for a project or it was something where there was no other design that could really facilitate this, then I would be much more inclined to agree with you all that it's not that big of a deal.

But in my point of view is that, you know, there's cantilever structures, all those kinds of things are not that uncommon.

It would be fairly easy to design a canopy that has a footer that does not need an encroachment.

I want to add two other thoughts.

The first thought is that if this kind of an issue were coming before the Board of Zoning Appeals, it would be an absolute loser.

because it's something they were doing themselves.

It wasn't forced on them by somebody else.

What questions I mean, because we're ready to move on.

Well, simply because existing conditions, they have a patio.

It has a steel core tent fence around it.

It has posts in it.

came into this late.

This is how I discovered it.

But they currently encroach.

The lines are all not right.

And that's a historic condition.

You can't move the building at this point, I don't think.

But I don't know.

But all we're simply trying to do is take the existing footprint of that core 10 fence, extend posts, and put a roof on it.

So that's the most economical and uninvasive way to not change the aspect of the restaurant.

Personally, I think it's been there long enough.

It's kind of an iconic place where they you know, so you'd have to rework that fence basically we'd have to yeah I mean right now the city encroaches on their property way more than they encroached on yours on with the sidewalk if you look at it and It was just a thought.

Well, I mean, I didn't know it encroached until I delved into it I was just looking at extending the canopy So that's all I would say is and as far as how many tables they would lose on it.

I can't speak that significantly, but I

would we build posts inside and would we get to leave the fence?

It just seems to me like it is absolutely possible to build something smaller.

No one's questioning that.

Thank you.

I am, you know, generally in support of restaurants being able to maximize their potential.

I think they add a lot to our economy and, you know, MAS is, like you said, it is kind of a signature look.

I think I need to think about this a little more.

Our hope would be to