Board of Architectural Review Meeting   11/19/2024

Brett, can you hear us?

He's officially out here.

I'm here.

Awesome.

I'd like clarity on that.

Hey, Jeff.

So the meeting rules are such that

But no voting.

Remy, anybody online?

Virtual attendees are welcome to raise their hand at this time if they'd like to speak by clicking the raise hand icon or pressing star nine if you're joining us via telephone.

Again, the meeting minutes from October 15th.

But I know that's a little vague.

Mr. Schwarz, could you summarize, maybe briefly?

Oh, there were just some minor things, just some clarifications.

I mean, some of them were meaningful.

Do I hear a second?

I'll second.

All in favor, voting on the consent agenda.

Aye.

The staff is working through some technical difficulties and think we're about.

Mike, you're here, right?

Yes.

Mike, you worry?

And we'd like to retain the flexibility to let the pro forma tell us which to choose if you find both acceptable.

I had two A7s.

I thought maybe you'd worked out.

and I'll open it to comments from the BAR.

I'm fine with both and I'd make a motion if anyone disagrees.

I think I asked a couple of questions.

I found your cheat sheet.

So if you have a preference, state it if you don't.

It's just curiosity at this point.

So they're not passageways.

Okay, make a motion.

I would also agree with either one.

So I prefer the folding door, but again, I'm okay with either.

I mean, if you have a preference opportunity to express it, I guess.

I'm just not ready to pull the trigger.

So I've taken that as an either option in the approval.

Is it to the right or to the left?

And it's kind of easy to make out because it's got a heavy lentil piece on top.

OK.

And then in the right third of that bay, as opposed to the middle third of that bay.

I mean, you couldn't really do a roll-out door.

Yeah, well, that'll stay fixed.

Is that in the application?

It's absolutely just an air.

No, no, no.

I just.

That's correct.

The fixed portion next to the door, I assume that detailing would match the doors of the other openings?

It will, yes.

And why not just leave the door in its original location?

Well, the floor plan doesn't support that location.

It would be white.

The new door, will it have a small bottom rail like you're showing in the image, or will it have a taller bottom rail that aligns with the daylight opening like the original?

If it's ADA, it can't have a small bottom rail.

If that's an option for the providers.

I don't see why we'd have a tall rail.

So I think in the motion it would be that a new door and side lights are necessary, that they will match the door in that current opening, the door and side lights.

At which point we could use a small rail easily.

I could be wrong, but you're the architect on this, but I'm pretty sure an ADA requirement is you have to have a, you can't have a small rail at the bottom of the class door.

I don't recall, I don't recall, but I'll make sure it's legal.

I just don't want us to say you have to have a small rail and then you come back and fight it.

Okay, okay, I got you there.

Yeah, so... Well, we'll make... We can agree to make it as small as a liable per radio.

I think we're ready.

Did I miss anything?

Did you express a preference between the two and should that be part of the motion?

Thank you.

Any other discussion?

Lewis?

Aye.

Mr. Rosenthal?

Yes.

This is regarding an art installation on the south and west elevations.

I don't know if you all, I think Carl caught it, but the guy napping in the photo there.

So that's the side, and the panels would be installed there at the top.

So I was, leave it with kind of curious where you all fall on it and what you think, because the guidelines don't give us a yes or no on this one.

Oh, I'm so sorry.

Is the applicant here?

Would the applicant like to make a presentation?

Can you hear me?

Loud and clear.

Hey, Greg.

He seemed to kind of like the idea that he's there, kind of asked the whole kind of pondering of everything on the mall.

It's clearly a current photo.

I'm happy to answer any questions that I may know.

I think we'll start now.

And, you know, they were in danger of maybe getting vandalized and just making more of an element of the building.

Allie, the only thing I couldn't grasp is are these, you know, 17th century pieces of art?

Allie's not on, I don't think.

It was quite popular style and a big part of the culture during that time period.

That's what we figured.

And I'm probably going beyond what I really know, but that's what I'm assuming from what I looked at.

Okay, questions from the BAR?

What's the what would the owner plan to do at that point?

will wear what is needed to keep it protected on things like marine quality type stuff.

It will just be coating.

And it's more like a, like, you know, I see those sculptures, it seems more like a, like a boat, you know, fiberglass with a coating over top of it or a surfboard or something, you know, it's quite, quite thick, clear coat of kind of coating.

Is the intention for these to be permanent or just put up for a certain period of time?

But also keeping them there, if they've, you know, just become part of the, the lavely scenery on them all.

Are those, are the sizes very accurate on the render?

You know, it's pretty much, pretty much there.

You showed the gray border.

The building, he picked the building, but they ended up being in these locations as a proposal.

Any more questions from the BAR?

Is that color like a chip you can hand us or is that just a kind of general representation of a warm gray?

But we can provide the chip to tell you exactly what the color is, what we're suggesting.

Have you put them up on the building to see whether or not you can read the drawings?

The scale size.

But is there anything more than that that you know of from the artist or from the selection of where they're eventually going to be located?

and, you know, just the sort of style and color and expression and just to have something interesting, you know, as, you know, whatever the perception of art in public spaces is, you know.

And if it's not true, it sounds like a good story.

You said you've just done your best.

Yeah, without getting scaffolding up there.

Or are there any other questions?

Any more questions from the AR?

Thank you.

If you wouldn't mind coming and stepping up here and state your name and address please.

Thank you.

We'll open it to comments from the VAR.

It was

So I think adding it as a condition for this owner to comply with the light, see those green lamps removed, not the fixtures, but the lamping.

Is that what you're saying?

So this is a mechanism to accomplish that, or an additional mechanism.

And I can forward that email to you, Jeff.

Yeah.

So, I think, you know, I don't think Allen's attached to it and would be fine to probably tell the tenant not to if you guys really don't like the green.

So this bench has been around and hopefully it will take on a mythology of its own.

and I was just looking at our guidelines and seeing if we have guidance on color.

Violet Crown had to get special permission for their purple lights on their sign.

I agree with James, it's not a historic

So yeah, I think this is actually an improvement.

In fact, I think they're quite beautiful.

I'm glad you brought up the lights.

I think Mr. Gestinger, would you like to comment on this?

Thanks.

I'm ready.

But those are just suggestions that, you know, is part of a process that hasn't been finished yet.

Can I make a motion?

What I would offer is I can work with Greg and get some better measurements on it and sort of if it seems like they're going to look like postage stamps up there or just not fit proportionally, bring it to your attention.

By the way, if I may be able to see this point.

Sure.

So yeah, they maybe could be a little bit bigger, but I think they're pretty close when I put that scale there.

Thank you, Greg.

and we'll leave the, as part of my motion, I'm leaving the color selection up to the applicant to work with staff on just confirming it meets our guidelines.

Can we just form that into a condition that staff approves the eventual color?

Thank you.

I'll second.

Lewis?

Aye.

Tabony?

Yes.

Mr. Rosenthal?

Yes.

Thank you very much.

So, good.

Yes.

You all have any thoughts?

So you're saying that they're going to wrap all the pressure-treated lumber, or is it going to be left like that and kind of invaded?

I think if we had looked at this as a blank canvas, we would have said, pull it all off and put in an emergency stairs and move on.

Come on up to the... I'm expecting someone to be talking from the ceiling again.

So

I see there's a photo here that shows that it's filled up.

Yes, the owner was disappointed at that as well.

I only ask because it's altering part of the historic fabric of the building.

It's a life safety code issue and it boxes us into

There have been several

But that's why I wanted to bring to you all if if it's really this is just not a

And so there was some confusion.

on our part with that, and the owner would have much preferred to keep the porches, and we really tried to work with the building official to do that, but this was his final answer on that.

What material are the stairs made of?

It would match, but it is composite.

Was there any attempt to try to keep the turned columns?

But yeah.

So

I mean, you might know because you have them, but if they're actually even that old.

If I recall from the back when we were looking at this a couple of years ago, they're not.

They're a standard off-the-shelf thing.

I don't know for sure.

It gives me faith in this.

So that's, that's, that's the plan right now.

But it doesn't line up.

Is the plan to trim out the column too?

Yes.

A little bit bigger, yeah.

I think it's about 14 feet, 12 feet, something like that.

Off the ground.

Yeah, it's right around.

I'm just wondering about the relationship.

You're talking about that beam.

The beam that's sort of floating above.

It's like a 10 foot, it's like an almost 10 foot floor, first floor in there, and then you've got about 6, 8 feet on that, but coming down below that.

And is the intention to wrap that also?

That was the, yeah.

Is that even stair?

Mm-hmm, exactly, yep, exactly, yep.

They're more narrow there.

They may be a little bit more narrow.

Yeah, there are.

It's more like commiseration with BAR.

It's sort of like our hands are tied.

that's the regrettable thing, but I don't know, it's just a consultation, so Jeff, I don't know what you want to say.

You could have looked at that and said, well, this is a reasonable solution where you could say, now we'd like really to see something else and that means bring something back to you.

It's almost, the landing is what's floating in the middle of nowhere.

Yeah, and when you, because it was framed out when I went there, it's just too much going on.

If you just imagine directly under the landing, another railing running across there, it's just, it's... Wasn't the earlier COA to remove that little connector between the addition and the historic building?

We can, if you want.

2022.

I mean, really, it's a simple.

I thought it was to remove it.

We can tell them to come back.

I don't know if anybody else can access it.

I mean, I'm not trying to slough it off, but I mean,

I mean, there's the sort of general design as one thing, but then I think there's the how you plan to detail it and to make sure that those are accurate so that we know what we're improving.

This will make sure I'm understanding that.

And then there's another stair.

The elevations are in there.

So then where that connector is, then there's another stair coming down.

And the intention is to paint that, right?

Yes, all the, yeah, all the, yeah, the porch, the porch would be like a, it's a, it's a brownish color.

So let's see how you want to

We can definitely do much more detailed drawings, show the trim sections, show exactly how it's going to be trimmed out, so you guys can look at that.

I mean, there's no excuse, but that's what happened.

But what if just that lower portion that's surrounding the stair was louvers like shutters or something?

Just to hide all the good stuff that's going on.

there's some other implications and then I have to come back and ask to demolish the little bollards at the at the street if I mess with that they're gonna make me it's it's a really it's uh yeah it's interesting but yeah but I you know that there's like that was that original one which was going to be I don't know how we would even build that all that railing so in the middle yeah so left was what we had looked at before rehabbing the ports were there in the middle was

on the bottom porch, just like the one above.

I'd like to sort of see what's the plan.

Exactly.

The carpenters are going to have to solve this and they're going to be unhappy unless there's a clean way to do it.

Alright, so I think we'd like to ask you to bring it back before us with details of how they'll finish off the double porch.

Okay.

Do we have something to look at?

is focused on the structure and so but what I'm hearing is maybe nothing further is done back here until we have a conversation in December.

No, no, no, that's absolutely fine with that.

Sorry to make light of it, but I don't know any other way to do it.

And if there was some hierarchy within that to sort of express the historic decks and elevations a little bit better through material choices, maybe that could help.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, our next agenda item is a preliminary discussion for 218 West Market Street.

I didn't know if anybody needed to get a step right.

Could we have like a three minute?

We'll return at seven o'clock.

Thank you.

7.01 will reconvene and again our next discussion will be a preliminary discussion on 218 West Market Street

Rex Till with us.

Yes, I believe so.

Yep, I'm here.

Just that I chickened.

So, um,

There was an SUP request for residence.

Mr. Warner, I believe you're muted.

OK.

Typically these work where, you know, if you guys have specific questions for us that we can try to answer, we will.

You can.

Then I think no more than 10 minutes, please.

Are you going to opine on active depth or is that something that when we go to the building department or the zoning administrator we talk about that?

This is a discussion we are having right now.

Why don't we go through this presentation and the building will get your feedback and then process.

That's the connection.

on the top left side those are the stairs, that's correct all of that is all open, it's complete lobby, yes exactly next please

This is, I mean, this pretty much, you know, I mean, the floor plans continues up.

That's what it is.

The elevators.

We can look at those first renderings, the aerial views where you can see that courtyard.

We provide materials right in the package?

Yeah, so, no, the materials.

Material, okay.

It's just an accent panel, that's all.

The Red Brick, just the sidewalk paving?

Just the sidewalk paving, yes.

And what is the brick on the omni now?

I'm sorry, this is the core building break, not the only break.

But yes, it's similar in color.

These colors are little change, but those are the materials.

and obviously the light, gray, white materials is Ephes.

It's a sand-faced Ephes.

What is the height of each of these stories?

And then when you go to the back, because the site drops, you're going to see one more story, which we created the whole storefront on that side.

So would you like to speak?

I just want to make sure

I think the next one will be more effective if you're looking towards the mall that's the rendering and this is where you will see the building from the mall that's fine so my question I just want to confirm it sounds like the

So the first floor here would be retail, that's retail there behind that glass that's on the ground floor.

That is correct.

and then the lobby level is the floor above which is the same level of the ground to on the other side on the other side yes that's correct okay so so there's essentially no no place where the parking kind of pokes out at above ground level okay thank you thank you that's my question for now thank you

Can you flip back to the view, looking up towards the mall, please?

And that's where the stair will be, right after that entry to the ramp, the stair which will go up, connect to the lobby.

You're talking about the first floor?

Top is all one level.

The Omni is taller.

Well, right there.

Oh, no.

So definitely much less taller than.

And where do you bring in your goods for the hotel and take out your trash?

We're trying to keep that hidden down there so it's not really facing all the time to the front.

Hotel guests, or is there a way out to the street?

They have to climb one more level and then they have to get to it.

Absolutely.

Restaurant bar, the whole line acts.

So you'll have less and retail activity essentially on both those floors.

Is that an entrance to the parking garage on the far left?

Yes.

and it's very monochromatic.

Well, let's think more on the

Go back to the precedent, the old precedent side.

The precedent is very, very, yeah.

But some of these have some architectural details that just kind of liven up the building and liven up the facade and I think that would be nice.

Yeah, you're right, you can't get that far

So we're seeing a lot of

And I think you will see that other wall coming up in the market and just about everywhere south of the map.

It will be just a big blank.

I don't know the answer to that, but I know like 612 West Main, 600, you know, didn't have anything at the end because of anticipating.

Nice mural.

It's not going anywhere.

I wish I could have windows.

and why can't you?

Take it with some colors.

I think that would be a worthy pursuit.

In the break, you've got something to say.

They're doing right now really reinforces that horizontal emphasis and also leads to these really big blank ends that feel like a hotel chain decided to put a building on the downtown mall without much design review.

I think there needs to be some serious thought and a lot of walking around and a better understanding of the surroundings here to make that happen.

And it just makes for a big blank wall basically at the end of the day.

And some of that, the first window will be pre-function area, which doesn't have to be tightened off, but the one behind that probably will be if they need the

No one's going to use that.

OK.

Windows on the Stair, but in some way it's a break up the materiality somehow, so it's not this big blank wall facing everybody downhill.

The short side one, the right hand side, that's the black line.

Let someone else talk.

Did we pass on comments from the public?

There might be people here that...

My now.

No.

Can someone summarize it?

She wasn't so worried about that.

I just want to get the substance to that.

Do y'all want me to read these other ones?

Yes.

So those two are not, that's what the notes is here.

I'll check my notes.

And this one is...

This was a little lengthy.

I can think I can summarize it.

If you can summarize any grade, this was circulated to the VHR, and we can certainly make sure the app was used as well.

Anyway, I did my best.

Yeah, no you didn't.

Thank you.

Anyone else from the public who can speak?

But I think that would be helpful to resolve.

I mean, it's sort of part of my ramble that I don't think fake wood is appropriate, at least not in that scale downtown.

I agree.

I would add Jeff to your list that we want to see lighting, any exterior lighting is important to show when you bring your COA application

I'm not sure who's going to be seeing that, to be honest.

Do you have a sign at the entry point?

Yeah, as a pedestrian or as a vehicle, and I think I also want to echo the comments of the improving the pedestrian experience and just thinking about how we're bringing the storefront, articulating the storefront at the street level and how people are entering and exiting the building would be helpful to see.

And I'd like to double up on the concept of having some sort of entrance from the mall to get up to the lobby stairs so that it would tie in better to the mall itself.

Maybe question time was over, but it's a discussion.

There's all sorts of stuff.

Can you not go up?

I don't know how everyone else will be.

Those are 30-inch trees.

So we know what the code provides.

And I will add, and that's something we have to, the code provides a lot about those areas, and then the zoning administrator of

and Michael Kochis.

So you're building face, you're building footprint would get smaller.

I don't want to speak too much for staff.

Sorry for the epistle there, but that's your meeting.

The Exterior of the Landscaping Plan and the assumption was we would have to comply with code.

So we were having a discussion about these of the trees we were going to use this year and do and we were never talking zoning or code.

And I was just going to do that and say, and the BAR is opining on this, the beautification.

That's why I'm annoying Jeff, I continually bring these things up.

Our zoning code is unfortunately

It takes, yeah, some studying.

And this is not going to be in the middle of nowhere.

80% of that has to be straight on the setback.

It looks.

respond perhaps to the context and you know the elevations and the facades and the materiality and things like that so that would be nice to see next time.

Thank you.

Thanks for that presentation.

Yes.

But Jeff, if you'd like to introduce this to us, please.