Planning Commission Regular Meeting   4/9/2024

And I think we'll begin with the University.

I do not have any specific reports to share today.

Roettger.

I do work at UVA, so I'm really excited when I get to do real, not theoretical things.

Thank you.

Some technical issues, but mostly positive.

Okay.

I take full responsibility for all problems.

The TJ PDC met nothing really in that meeting that would be of relevance to this body.

And it proceeded, the policy board gave approval to proceed with the pre-application for smart scale, but that design will be further refined.

And that's all I got.

We're worried that we may not be able to be open full time.

All the pools open full time during the coming season.

Creasy, I think you have the floor.

And so we may want to share a few with you.

Anything I'm missing?

No, I think he did a great job.

What's the planning manager position?

pursuing that project, pursuing and overseeing that division is in and of itself a full-time job, leaving aside anything that comes with being deputy director of the department.

Cool.

I'll worry for a second there.

There is more than enough to do.

All right, James, I want to thank you for your leadership.

But thank you.

Creasy, will you moderate?

And to our virtual group.

We are now ready for a motion regarding the consent agenda.

Mr. Chair, I have a motion.

What do you?

Mr. Doronzio also had some changes.

That's what I have.

Right as a second.

I'll go second it.

Aye.

Aye.

Mr. Freese, I think you're going to go just through this.

Either way.

Or whomever.

Either one of us can speak.

So this is something that was in our previous code and needs to be carried forward, particularly as we have a number of street acquisitions, street right-of-way acquisition projects in the works right now.

If someone were to just give the city room for a sidewalk Yeah, I think it I think it would cover that.

Okay, cool.

I think we're ready to open up for public hearing

Patrick, do you see any hands?

There are no hands at this time.

Chair, we don't have any speakers at this time.

Is there a motion?

I can get to the right page.

I will second that.

Casey?

Mr. Solla-Yates.

Aye.

Mr. Stolzenberg.

Aye.

Mr. Schwarz.

Yes.

And Mr. Mitchell.

Freese.

And folks will have another opportunity to speak to it if they'd like.

And I think, Jeff, you're going to manage this one.

So that's sort of the two kind of themes that we're talking about here.

That's a proud, the other one is a reveal.

But I thought that those were the two things that, along with the recommendations I've made, if recommended conditions, I think those can be, if the ethos and the detailed question can be resolved, and if the conditions I've offered make sense, then I would support approval of the project.

Let's just leave any of the commissions have questions for you first.

I think I didn't save my questions for the applicant.

Clear.

I'll wait for the applicant.

I'm wondering if you can just, for my sake, kind of help me get comfortable with the new iteration of EFAS and the fact that it's going to be, we can start thinking of it as a noble material.

I don't know enough to say you should use it versus something else.

Where we actually have used it in?

One of the places we used it that they had some problems was done poorly was at Lewis

But the apartment building next door at the corner of Ridge and Cherry is EFIS.

Virginia Avenue Project

So that's the fear that if it's not installed properly 15 years from now you've got a disaster.

That has been resolved.

As far as my personal opinion, EFIS is a better product than Stucco Stucco is more problematic than EFIS at this point, but that's my own personal opinion So EFIS will talk about this more, but it looks like the devil is in the installation details Maybe later on when we start talking back and forth we can talk about what we can do to mitigate this to make sure that the installation goes well and

You do if in ten years the facade is going off.

You might care if it falls over into JPA when you're going through them.

Alright, let's chat with the applicant.

This primarily exists on the upper levels of the floor as we step back and the facade sort of changes at usually towards the top of the building.

Is this the actual product, or is this like?

If there's anything else in the presentation not related to this particular topic, happy to go to that.

Yeah, this is 62 if you go a few more ahead.

Yeah, I believe you're talking about this section here.

And so that's, this suggests that I will not be able to see this from the retender.

Happy to go through them, and that's why we included them in the packet.

A lot of folks are worried about this looming over the lawn, so this suggests that it will not.

Proximity and closeness to the lawn and then additionally our project is down in grade significantly in a bowl and that is the major reason why it is not seen from much of the grounds and for sure from the lawn.

Knowing that these are somewhat crude photo representation exhibits, how can you ensure the accuracy of what's being shown?

I don't know what kind of level we could do more than this with significant survey work and other items.

Or was it just clearly an extrapolation from a two-dimensional representation and then an approximation from a photo point?

Yeah, I mean, for instance, on Google Earth, that's public knowledge, and there is GIS public knowledge to buffer it on what those points of elevation are.

Okay, thank you.

As well, of course, in even more detail, our buildings, grade point elevations and our building height.

Alright, why don't we begin with Mr. Schwarz?

I was going to buy some Carl some more time to ruminate, but... No, I've got all the big one on this.

You look up architectural panel, there's still a lot of different products.

Committing to specifying exact materials is a difficult thing to do.

Or are you going to do with the traditional system where you put up the EFIS and then you spray everything?

And so that primarily is one of the reasons other materials had that cost price point that didn't work for us.

Does that mean you have to go around the building three times?

I don't know the exact process that the contractor would use, but yes, it would probably be cordoning off two of the three, painting one, or finishing one, I should say, and then doing that subsequently with the other two in order to achieve that.

Is that a read going to get what we're seeing?

But for instance, there at the base, where we see it between the two windows on the left-hand side of the screen, that would be an instance where we would want to give it some depth to achieve what we've already presented to you as the exterior design.

The renderings are kind of a guide at this point.

They are, yeah.

Okay.

Perhaps if none of those were executed, this doesn't sing in the same way.

Do you, well I guess without the specific products you don't really have any warranty information so we don't know how long the color is going to last or do we?

And so we're pretty comfortable with the technical envelope of this material on a building that's rather large and there's rather a lot of this material on the building.

What's the wood-look product that you're trying to use on the concrete?

General public who's accessing that market or just in the public right-of-way?

What is your thinking at the moment for that?

But the outboard inboard question on the detail and the exact way it is detailed

We are open to how you might see what like at the moment Are you thinking it's just a it's a typical EFIS detail where you just use thicker thinner?

Like, for example, a fiber cement panel might have a metal extrusion.

You've got the pool.

No, yeah, I don't anticipate any lighting, you know, other than what's been already depicted at the storefronts, which you want to spill out in the right way, spilling out from the building.

How big is it?

So whether it's structured fence with vegetation on it or less likely vegetation that grows six feet tall, which you need more space for, we are open to both of those things.

But six feet is what you're thinking the typical height is of those?

But you'd want a screen.

It's not a 10 foot box.

I guess.

I mean, I just couldn't find them noted anywhere in the elevation, so I wasn't sure.

And I apologize if we didn't specifically list those particular locations, we're probably still honing in on.

But those are walkout units there, right?

There are a couple pieces of facade where there's a break or a mechanical room, and if we did exhaust the garage from the side wall, that would be the location.

So it'd be kind of in between some of those units?

And then if in these zones, particularly where we don't have a walk-up condition, we'd locate one of those area wells and sort of have that exhaust happen from that arrangement.

How often are we going to see something that's like a break in the masonry pattern?

Does that answer your question?

Yes, yes, and I guess with the

So it appears as a 4-inch brick.

Is it like a sheet applied?

I think it's more efficient than that out in the field.

They're actually the right color.

I don't know.

And at one point, I thought the Belmont Bridge lights were going to become the new city standard, but I don't know if that's the case either.

I wasn't successful.

I have exhausted my very long list of questions.

Were you saying those might go away?

Can we convey that thickness change with the efficiency of having one solid wall behind that and not altering the exterior wall structure?

But it's obviously a change in pattern.

What we're doing.

which we're recommending against in our bike podmaster plan.

Again, the renderings were somewhat aspirational and sometimes you take liberties with the aesthetic of a bike rack.

I know your architects love the look of wave-shaped bike racks.

That's right, they do look good but as a biker I can attest they do not function very well, especially if you're in a hurry.

That could also serve as a bench for her to sit on.

So what your suggestion would be rather than a railing, like a privacy railing with a gate, but more of a built wall condition?

She's sitting on the floor here.

Thanks.

I don't really have any significant questions.

Thank you.

Has that been discussed?

So we haven't specified exact reflectivity at this point, but if there is a similar to lighting temperature, if there is something that is valuable to convey from this body through the ERP that we'd love to know that.

Does the ARB have a... Sorry, I don't know if that's already been...

It's in your purview to ask about.

So call it the first two stories.

So I guess I was just asking for the upper levels, because I know there's a privacy thing, but also you don't want it to, with the metallic paneling, you know, be

Some windows with shades and some not so you can sort of see it both ways Especially when that is more apparent in the dusk type of white condition So what are you thinking for those walk-up units?

So what do you plan for glass?

you know pretty maneuverable shades on each of those and then sometimes even the door does have those in a super public situation just because you need that level of privacy on the inside so that doesn't really speak to the glass itself but it speaks to the functionality and operations of those walk-up units so we do a lot of those most of the time it's controlled on the inside by the residents with call it a different type of shade than what would exist on level seven of the building for instance.

And maybe it's just like you were saying the color of the grout.

And though I think, hopefully, in the images I've conveyed on the screen and the digital version of the material sample board, it does come across that way.

bringing it into the sidewalk and then out just for that one project.

Big picture goal, have these facilities for each user and have, you know, good, solid bowl of our trees in the right of way.

Are you still playing with that?

It may be dictated by the contractor working with us to detail the billing.

Okay, I had a couple

Thank you for your time.

So that's primarily the consultant team if that's the question for this project obviously structural engineers, mechanical engineers as well.

Can you confirm the current bed count?

Search some rough ballpark.

And the amount of sort of evidence will be having the lived experience of being in this building.

Again, those are technical numbers to the PUD just to get that caveat.

I wanted to confirm whether the intent was to have it to be non-illuminated or?

So 55 will be in the lower right hand corner.

I was just curious what the design intent was along that signage.

But that said, if you have thoughts on it right now pertaining to the role of ERB, we'd be happy to understand.

So I think that sign can't be there anyways

In other words, with your dictation of height on that second floor storefront window, there wouldn't be space for that sign necessarily.

The regulation is that it has to be below the sill of the second floor windows.

Sorry to misspeak.

So I don't want to close the door on it if there's a concern about lights.

It's so much better.

Well, if there is anything you want us to take as a note to your tonight on that, but we will comply, of course, with the signage ordinance, and particularly this rendering doesn't depict compliance with that, so we'll make that alteration.

Rufren's per structure is being proposed in order to maintain these significant facades and will those pieces of infrastructure be visible that aren't currently shown in these renderings?

Did you say infrastructure?

Yeah, we have a davit system or how would one go about servicing this facade?

Oh, I'm sorry, operationally, how does the facade get, like for instance, if it was true masonry brick, the tucking point.

Yeah, or clean the windows, or how would you maintain this?

There's a roof anchor, and then there is a structure that's hung off the side of the building from that for window washing.

So that's a portable system, so it'll collapse, so it won't be...

Scaffolding only gets used so high, and so that's why these methods would be done operationally for that.

So that's all I have.

And so sometimes doing the work well is hitting the sweet spot of what you can do and what's in budget and making sure, at the foremost, that all the things, particularly related to the exterior, to the right of way, are being done as well as possible.

Answer.

Do you have one question?

Do you see any problems that we should be thinking about?

Meters and panel boxes screening and then the science thing we reviewed no major concerns with those or with planting variation if that would come up as well Mr. Warner Am I correct that number eight is not to us but to as part of the site plan process?

But otherwise, if you've got nothing to add,

Thank you.

But that would work for me.

All right, Mr. Yoder Schwarz, why don't you kick us off?

But do something to convince me that it's actually going to do what you think it's going to do.

I would have to vote to approve a COI.

That I would be inclined to grant the COA, but that's all the consensus here.

I am concerned about the details and I'm interested in how we can resolve those details.

Well, again, as I mentioned, I'm a non-voting member.

Now that's the best it could be, because I don't know if I feel I've been convinced yet.

Raise your hand.

If it's deferred, we would see... If it's deferred, Ms.

Am I in balance here?

with the applicant as to what would make sense.

What would make sense to you guys?

I would say that we do have time through the site plan review process.

But I mean, yeah, we would be happy to defer and come back with more details for you guys.

It's not necessarily next month.

And if we were to vote for a roll, I don't think we would get to do that.

And if those materials, once those are received by Jeff or not comprehensive enough, we would work with them to get to an agenda that makes sense.

Are you looking for renderings with Evis?

So if there's a way to like take a rendering and just show a corner or maybe even as you were showing the existing buildings, we could focus more on looking at the, like taking some photos of those more in detail

And is that going to be painted a different color or is that going to be, you know, just understanding what you guys want to do with that?

It's updated graphic illustrations on the things talked about, but then additional content on details, if I'm summarizing that correctly.

like a section showing the brick that maybe you don't even have to show us the guts of what's behind the wall, but just to know it's going to stick out an inch, it's not going to stick out at all, that sort of thing.

You're not asking us to detail every canopy overhang or anything like that, but the major repeating instances of the major materials.

We don't have any public here tonight, I don't think, but it would be good just to have, for the record, as opposed to us, you know, accepting what they're saying, like what we're gonna do it this way and this way, it'd be good to actually have it all, so we can see it, if that makes any sense.

All 20 renderings, maybe one or two, because I know that takes a lot of time, so.

Correct, yeah.

Just like a corner and a little sample.

You know, we'd have to work in the timeline that Missy and Jeff have outlined.

Again, I'm just trying to figure out, like, how would we say face with our neighbors?

So somehow we need to come up with a little bit of CYA language to go with a condition that says this is why this EFIS is appropriate.

Ideally, we would depict some details here, maybe in a sectional detail that could allow you to provide that language that you are just talking about so that that's at the meeting next month or the following month.

What would the applicant like?

On behalf of the team, we're ready to defer this.

Creasy, do we need to vote to accept the request to defer or do we do?

All second.

Creasy.

Mr. Solla-Yates.

Aye.

Mr. Doronzio, Mr. Stolzenberg, Mr. Roettger, Mr. Schwarz, and Mr. Mitchell.

Any other discussion from you commissioners?

I just wanted to note we had a communication from Mr. Gaines, our city forester about actions that we can take as a commission to address our problems in the word canopy issues which I don't have a thorough analysis of that now but it exists

So I was curious if there was a vehicle that without having to redo the whole thing, could there be interim something that could be and put it available to the public to show that these sections are being investigated as potentially, I don't know, I don't know.

Or even something along the lines of that, you know, contextually with the time and place of 2011, no one was happy with EFIS, but some sort of statement about the technological, you know... Well, I think, you know, there are only guidelines, so there's... The guidelines are not commandments.

When I have a question, an applicant has a question, I'm trying to guess what you all may or may not want.

Mr. Werner, as you recall, before COVID, we used to do that.

I think before COVID, I came to you guys three times, so I don't know.

We said at your desk and we talked about it.

We still have to figure that out.

We just don't do these as often, and it always seems to be a little bit bumpy.

Do that just yet?

One could follow.

Get to know you better.

And I don't think that was clear to you when you were preparing the application.

I don't know how to, I mean, they look great and they'll probably weather great, but I don't know how to evaluate them.

Yeah, I think, again, having them a chance to come back and reframe it is great.

Bill.

For example, today is International Be Kind to a Lawyer Day, and I just don't see how we can possibly endorse that.

Did we not?

Yeah, I can't say it was nice.

So if you can just make one slight adjustment to your evening routine, we should adjourn so you could celebrate that.

We are adjourned.

Thank you a lot