City Council Meeting   8/21/2023

Thomas, would you call the roll please?

Councillor Payne?

Here.

Councillor Pinkston?

Here.

Councillor Perrier?

Here.

Mayor Snook?

Here.

Vice Mayor Wade?

Okay, we're all here.

That will be if anybody's watching on Zoom, there is a different Zoom link for the business meeting.

So on the four o'clock agenda today, we have three presentations.

Some collection of you are welcome to speak to us.

Are you ready now?

Yeah.

I wrote the rules for it.

I counted the votes for it.

I don't know which candidates favored which side in that.

But there's an object lesson there.

I'll now pass the podium to Taylor, who will give you a presentation on exactly what rank choice is and how it works, particularly the tabulation method used for multi winner races.

Is that a term?

What we have now.

The two first past the post.

Thank you.

So I have a presentation I think that is going to be shared.

Here we go.

This would be the completion of tabulation.

So just one back?

Mm-hmm.

It's because no one in plum voted for turquoise?

Yes.

Can I come back to you on that?

That's one of our concerns as well, so we'll get back to that one.

Do we know if we're able to play that video link in the bottom right corner?

I'm not sure if your clicker will do that.

I know we can't from here, but whether you can control it from there, I don't know.

It looks like David's trying to do it for you.

If you can, it's just a quick little video to explain this in much better terms than I can use.

Vote for your favorite colors.

Now we got the audio and we have video goes with it.

He might have to share his screen.

Or if it's easier to come back at the end when we're out of the presentation as well.

Vote for your favorite colors

The Instant Runoff Way Now with fractions!

We have five colors to choose from, and we're going to end up with three winners.

To start, each voter chooses a favorite color, a second choice, and a third.

Alright, purple is my first choice, yellow comes in second, and I'll put blue in third place.

There will be three winners.

That's because if a color gets that much, then it's mathematically impossible for it to lose.

36 divided by 4 is 9, and we need just over that.

So plus 1 is 10.

10 votes is the finish line.

Make it there, and you're one of the three winners.

So let's count the votes.

That means it's time for round two.

And orange got the fewest votes, so it's out.

In fact, purple has more votes than it needs.

Now blue has reached the finish line.

No votes to spare.

You know the drill.

Most of these votes are for colors that have already won or are already out.

We call those ballots exhausted.

Yellow didn't quite make it to the finish line, but there's no one else left.

So we have our three winners.

The instant runoff way.

distribute in percentages, you know, what they have over.

who might be a better one to help with this you're still getting some say so say if you chose in the very the first round you chose the person that won first you're still getting a percentage of an opinion or that's how they like to say it or a proportion of your vote to say what you he's better at explaining this the reason this was done is it was felt that those who voted for the candidate who came in first in the first round of voting

So it's just fairness to those who voted for the most popular candidate first.

Yeah.

Okay.

So that way, what we cannot answer, you all would be able to answer.

So the buck has been passed by statute.

So, for example, our EPBs are required to be certified, our scanners are required to be certified, but this is not required to be certified, so it is not.

What kind of practical implications does that have?

Again, this is what I was talking about with hand counts.

What is a risk-limiting audit?

and they give each locality the number of ballots that they're responsible for auditing that way they'll pull all the data together average it to see if that percentage of ballots comes to what Virginia's overall total was at the end or from Election Day the results so it just audits our results on Election Day and if it's not close enough then you'll have a bigger pool that you will go through and just so on and so forth and if it stays off then you would be required to do a hand recount

As a practical matter, is that a check on the hardware to make sure that the scanner is scanning correctly?

What questions do you all have for me?

and your ballot printing costs I know that it can't be exact but could you give a ballpark for each one of those?

I would be at each of the outreach events, but I don't get overtime, so I do not matter.

And your ballot printing, you think?

Okay.

Um, why rank choice voting?

Thanks.

Is that treated the same way?

But it's typically somewhere between 200 and 300 in election.

So that's, it won't?

No.

You still can't encourage if we decide to?

It would not be all of those we had to transpose.

Let me say one of the thoughts that I had as I was reading through all of this was that I did not understand, still don't understand what happens with the inclusive Gregory method of reallocation.

That is, you better answer this than me.

That was mandated by the state.

All I can say is that when Charlottesville Democratic Party did ranked choice voting back in 2011, we didn't do that.

It's the partial reallocation, fractional reallocation of surplus votes for candidates that pass the threshold.

So six and two thirds percent of their vote was excess, exhausted.

Yes.

I'm trying to figure out what happens with them, given that all of those voters already had a second choice, already had a third choice, which presumably got tabulated.

and then takes a fraction of each one and allocates it to the remaining candidates.

Well, on the one hand, I'm inclined to say that from the voter's standpoint, it doesn't matter.

Right.

The only people who are going to need to know are the conspiracy theorists who are convinced that there's something shady going on or the computer science people who recognize that every program's got a bug.

Well, yeah.

And the candidate, I remember when we were doing this 13 years ago, everybody was trying to figure out if there was a way to game the system.

Yeah, single shotting.

My only concern is if I were, for example, if I were to be the counselor who was to go along with you on your education program and somebody asked me how that worked, all I could say is damned if I know.

might have selected it, we'd have to pass to you to answer why we're doing it.

And the simple answer is that particular issue was taken away from us anyway by the regulations.

It's all spelled out.

You know, they had some issues with it, but it could have been, I'm not sure, but it'd be interesting to see what their issues were.

And that kind of is what happened in Arlington as well, the objections that were raised later.

If I'm going to lose, I at least want to understand why I lost.

Yeah, good point.

Like, did they have any clear stated reasons?

I mean, the state... You mean over the reallocation kind of thing?

Yes, yes, the fractional reallocation of surplus votes from the... And I guess maybe fear over a lawsuit in response to that and kind of what proceeds from there?

But we don't know for sure.

timeline or process for what it takes to move to certified?

And unfortunately, the person, Karen,

And unless anything has changed within the last month in our conversations, it will not be certified in the state until that is ever a requirement.

Correct.

It couldn't be on the ballot anymore after 2031.

In the last session, there were bills introduced to expand it to other local elections, House of Delegates.

Presidential primary.

We had 14 candidates on the last one so.

But at least there you're only coming out with one name I guess.

Yes.

So taking out the percentages, it makes tabulation a lot simpler.

So you had mentioned that in order, obviously we're not going to have anything to implement during 2024, but refresh my recollection on the timeline that you would need a decision from Council so that you could get geared up for doing something in 2025?

in education, explaining it to voters and having them understanding what it is, how it works, so on and so forth.

Correct.

Yes.

You might have it in the back of your mind, but you're probably going to be pretty busy on other things and not really devoting much resources to it.

Okay.

Thank you.

Okay, our next item is the Charlottesville Area Alliance annual presentation with Kristen Miller and Susan Friedman, Charlottesville Area Alliance co-chairs to present.

How are you guys?

Good.

then usually the people underneath them, the moms with the children, the dads with the children, the people that have walkability issues, usually those are taken care of as well.

I just want to make sure some of that usual.

There we go, there we go.

Yeah, that's fine.

Yes, yes.

Getting there.

Thank you.

I hope you have a good evening.

Thank you.

Okay.

Next item up is Botanical Garden of the Piedmont.

I walked away with a clicker.

Thank you.

Hello.

Hi.

So with that said, can I change the clicker?

I don't know.

There we go.

So I appreciate this opportunity to talk to you and I'm here to answer any questions you might have.

Questions, Council?

So if I live over in Lucas Grove, if my wife and I were to drive over, I guess there's a parking lot and we could get out and walk around?

So please do come down.

Do you let people walk their dogs there?

We ask that they clean up after them.

Thank you.

Thank you.

in, and I know people had board meetings out there, classes out there, so it's good to see the transformation, so thank you for your hard work.

How many butterflies did you get this weekend?

Bird activity, so it did feel very comforting to be there.

Did you bring the goats?

So we haven't had to engage goats yet, but we do have some of that area on the south side of the stream where that's a possibility in the future.

I forgot to water it a couple of days and it just dried out but it's very pretty and it's holding up so that's my nature activity so thank you very much because it's a lovely facility it's a good place to go just to sit and collect your thoughts thank you yeah I'm glad that left a good memory for you thank you

Yeah.

And we're hoping that these living dinosaurs that we have in the garden will continue to thrive and that we might be able to germinate them and share the well.

Yeah, that's amazing.

We're happy to get to arrange the lease for you to then let you go forth and do your thing.

Thank you.

Thank you.

We're a little bit early, but shall we

Okay.

In section 2.2-3711A8, consultation with the city attorney regarding specific legal matters requiring the provision of legal advice, specifically legal matters regarding the proposed Sugar Hollow Reservoir real estate transactions and the proposed zero East High Street development.

So do we have the closed meeting certification motion?

Yes, I move that this council certify by a recorded vote that to the best of each council member's knowledge, only public business matters lawfully exempted from the open meeting requirements of the Virginia Freedom of Information Act and identified in the motion convening the closed meeting were heard, discussed, or considered in the closed meeting.

All in favor, just raise your hand, I guess, is sufficient for this.

We can do the buttons.

So we're going to start again with the 6.30 business session.

Let's have a brief moment of silence, please.

Counselors, any announcements?

to learn about some of the information about prostate cancer and there's going to be breakfast, conversation, we'll have some raffles for some tickets but I think that come out to get some information on I think will be really helpful.

That's 434-4243-4052 I think it would also take a moment to have a couple of acknowledgments.

Any other recognitions, proclamations?

Thomas, would you read the consent agenda, please?

Okay.

Seven, resolution, resolution to appropriate funds from the Department of Criminal Justice Systems, free grant, school security officer, school resource officer, incentive grant program, $150,000, one of two readings Eight, resolution, resolution to appropriate funds from the Safe Routes to School, non-infrastructure grant, $33,150, one of two readings

Anybody online who would like to address the council on the consent agenda?

Mayor Snook, I see no raised hands.

Is there a motion to adopt the consent agenda?

I move for adoption of the consent agenda.

Is there a second?

Second.

All right, that passes 5-0.

Mr. Sanders, is there a report from the city manager's office?

I promised you all that he would get a chance to speak, so today's that day.

That's my update and I would like to share with council I do look forward in my new role in this journey I have and I look forward to working with the citizens and staff and Mr. City Manager thank you for the opportunity.

Mr. Mayor, that's the end of my report.

Is that going to be something that's discussed here, or is it simply a part of the packet?

But going forward, we'll make sure that it's the complete package of both parts of the presentation at once.

Okay.

All right.

Our first preregistered speaker is Joni Freeman.

Is this on?

You have three minutes.

And here we go with our granny style.

It is all about the bus, about the bus, about the bus, electrify the bus in Charlottesville.

And I note that the next, is Marge Thompson?

I'm ready.

Do you have something else?

Okay.

Keeping with the theme, but

Thank you for your attention.

Yes, okay.

Thank you.

Van Langen, you have three minutes.

Can you hear me?

Yes, we can.

Thank you so much.

I think she's online.

I'm having some difficulty figuring out how to get on.

We can hear you.

And one thing I forgot to mention here is that I think it is imperative for the city and the county to take the lead in educating the public and leading the public in the proper management of these trees.

Your time is up.

You're welcome.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next, we have Nicholas Koh

Thank you.

So we have two on the waiting list, one of whom, Sharon Biakko, may have been one of the green grannies.

She was.

So then we have Cecilia Lapp Stoltzfus

So I just wanted to take this time to thank you all.

Let's first see if there's anybody online who would like to speak to us.

Mayor Snook, we have John Hosick.

Got three minutes.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Yes, sir.

So I would like y'all to take this under consideration.

Okay, hold up.

Take your time.

Anybody else online?

We have Bob Gibson.

Mr. Gibson?

Good evening.

Good evening.

Thank you.

Anybody else online?

We have Robin Hoffman Ms.

Hoffman, you have three minutes

Thank you.

Back online?

We have Chris Meyer.

Let's go to the next person and give Mr. Meyer a chance to call back in.

We have Zion and Bryant.

Bryant.

Thank you.

Next person online is Mr. Meyer back with us.

I do not see Mr. Meyer back on and there are no additional hands.

We always have a community.

He just sent us an email with his comments.

We'll have to check the email then.

Tell him thank you.

We will now move to the action items portion of the agenda.

Mr. Engel?

I think that's the overview unless you have any questions at this time.

Is Main Street West LLC the business that is behind it basically?

That's correct.

So this is a piece of land that's in essence part of the parking lot?

And yes, it's a series of retail and office spaces immediately behind it.

Councilor, do you have any other clarifying questions?

Have there been any substantive changes between now and then, and why is this item coming back to us after it was previously denied?

Unless somebody could correct me on that, but I'm not aware of that.

I remember being aware of the project, but I don't remember it being denied.

It was during your tenure?

But certainly we were informed of it and there was a consensus not to support it at a minimum.

Yeah.

Correct.

You all are certainly aware of the West Main Street project that has been canceled, but as best we can tell, even that had no particular need for this piece of real estate.

I take it that that discussion has been had with CAT and nobody is willing to step up and say, yes, we have a use for it.

That's correct.

Yeah, and I'm, you know, I'm aware that a city being 10 square miles every piece of parcel is important, but, I mean, in a case like this, I just, I think it's a... We need to have public hearing on it first, so, yeah.

Is there anybody online who would wish to speak on this matter?

I see no raised hands.

Actually we just need to the motion would be to carry it to the next meeting for a second reading if we decide we want to do that.

That's what I have to say.

But we're just losing all those opportunities for no clear public benefit in my mind, and that's still where I'm at.

We can hold it over to vote next time.

Yes.

I need to think about it a little more, but I can support, at this point in time, Mr. Ingle's proposal.

Mm-hmm.

I'd like to do that.

Thank you, Mr. Engel.

Mr. Sanders?

Hardy is going to walk you through that and then I will wrap it up and give you something to think about.

All right.

Are there any questions, counselors?

Yes, ma'am.

Could you explain that please?

You're welcome.

Or is that basically correct?

The intent would be that these would be done on an annual basis tied in with the budget process.

Got it.

Subject, of course, to budget appropriation as approved by Council.

And so I'm just grateful for you and your staff and for all of you for sticking with it.

Thank you.

Do you have some flexibility in there to make adjustments without not that we don't want to hear it, but you have some authority to, you know, make some adjustments and things like that?

It doesn't fall behind the market.

there's going to be updates and, you know, to keep up with the market and things like that.

We understand how important it is for employees.

Thank you.

Is there an expectation for upcoming budget cycle, like an additional investment that's going to be necessary and what that number is?

I will defer to the city manager on that one.

I've been very clear and frank with the staff that my goal is to communicate as much as I possibly can as often as I possibly can just letting them know that we're trying to get it right and there's some measured steps that we have to take to ensure that that is done but the first step would be to be able to afford and it's roughly $250,000 just to do that to move anyone to the minimum that is not currently there today.

Is that change related to this in any way or is that a separate change that has happened?

No, that's a great question, but that isn't part of this process.

Does anybody like to move?

Yes, I would like to move the resolution of the packet, adopting an updated compensation plan pay scale for employees of the city of Charlottesville.

Is there a second?

Second.

and if nothing else being able for people to be able to see where they fit into the structure and to have some sense of hey there are steps, there are pay grades, there are ways forward, there are ways to make some more money is I'm hoping will help with morale issues.

on the edge moving things forward in the ways that we talk about we need to be able to recruit and retain the best and I think that this is an important part of that and that our citizens who are very much you know wanting the best out of us hopefully they'll see the connection here so

because we know it's coming and we know that he is going to do it not necessarily with all deliberate speed but he's going to do it carefully and it will be done right so that we do not have to come back in five or ten years to undo something that we didn't do right in 2023.

Okay, please vote.

Thank you so much.

Fastest five, nothing.

Thank you very much.

They've been doing a yeoman's job of just getting this done while also trying to deal with everything else that HR has to do on a daily basis.

Yeah, I just think the amount of change that the HR office has been able to bring in the last year and a half has been very impressive.

More to come.

Next item on the agenda, resolution supporting the Sister Cities Commission's request to host a delegation from the Charlottesville Friendship City, Huehuetenango, Guatemala, for an exploratory visit.

Mr. Herring.

Good evening, Councilor.

Good evening.

I'm assuming I just pushed this button.

Or you just talk.

I'm sorry?

It'll pop up if I'm patient, right?

Yes, sir.