Board of Architectural Review Meeting   12/20/2022

If he wants to go and tear it down and pay a fine and go to city council, go for it.

The wording's there.

Jessica Ball, you covered that up.

We're going to hypnotize people.

They're dabbing.

They're dabbing.

Dabbing, dear.

Dabbing, Santa.

Is it city guest or city?

And I don't think it requires a password.

Nothing has to pass unanimously.

You just need to log into the website first.

Nothing has to pass unanimously.

There's no need to discuss or have.

I feel like we should make sure we keep our presentations to ten minutes.

Thank you for coaching me on this, I appreciate it now.

We'll have our discussion as we need it, but not let us get drawn into a back and forth with the applicants, which sometimes happens.

Because you probably wanted to enter into a discussion with them.

I just couldn't cut him off.

Right.

That are in the business of sucking up.

That's right.

Nope, it does not want me to be on there.

So is Brett going to join up remotely or not?

I went by it today and I wasn't sure what I was looking at.

I didn't see it anywhere.

Yeah, this side.

It's gonna take me all of five minutes.

I was gonna say, you should go.

So go up there and take a picture with your, take a picture with your phone so I can see it.

I do not have time to look at the back of the, it's just been a crazy.

It's been a crazy week.

Well I mean I'm almost I'm on the mind of just you know what repair the damaged brick that's like really badly lost and leave the thing like it is.

The red brick is fine.

There's some that are gone.

Let it be honest.

Does not look good.

Roger, you're a resident historian now.

Historians are probably my least qualified.

Yeah, I mean it's 502 that close.

So I'll wait and I'll wait to

I was really thinking that clock was accurate.

I think it's just better now.

It's not like five minutes early or ten minutes.

Where's Jeff by the way?

Molly, where's Jeff?

He didn't say anything to you, Remy.

Thank you.

Patrick just wanted to eat his dinner.

Did I?

But we're planning to go out after.

Yeah, I was hungry like an hour ago.

I agree.

And I actually think you're wise because I don't think any of these are going to be strong.

But I have gotten something.

Which island?

There's a lot of ground to cover.

It is.

I had not been there in 60 years.

But I guess.

Do you know if there's a red watch on the building?

It's a red watch.

I don't know, I didn't see one.

We live on 2nd Street.

That's okay, I'm listening

Among many of the delights of Egypt, the one that I found completely fascinating and frightening is a city of 25 million people, which is Cairo, about a single sub-life.

They're just in complete chaos.

I think that we're going to have... One of the other things our guys basically said, do not, under any circumstances, try to cross the street by yourself.

You don't know how to do it.

On the flip side, you know, seeing the ancient sites and so forth, something, you know, when I was a kid, when they were moving, I was assembled, it was in a bi-weekly reader, you know, the paper you got, you know, made a big deal out of it, so I got to see it.

Right, we can say we approve it, except for these things.

What is this website?

And that's really the sound, isn't it?

And then Jeff, I wasn't sure what I was looking at as far as their

Well, it seems like there's two different types on each side.

I think what it is that ultimately is is still being kind of attempted.

I think it would be what?

Yes, there are some bricks that are gone.

If somebody makes a motion, do we have to do that little kaput noise?

Victor Borga up here.

I'm proud of you.

Guy in the disco ball, sweat, his t-shirt rather, the sweater, whatever I'm trying to say is.

Anything you want to admit, admit, anything you want to add versus addition kind of makes sense to just take a short recess.

Yes, and actually it was funny, I ran into the architect out there looking for the red wash.

You can only tell because the mortar is also red.

There is a red wash as well.

So it did a good job.

Is it directly next to the white wash?

So it's in the ether right now on your way.

So everything is in the system.

We can discuss that.

I don't think that it's gotten to the micromolecular system.

So after I'm saying that there's some latitude in what is available, then

Can I ask why would we adjourn or something to discuss this and are we allowed to do it?

For like the group writing, we would want to do a, is it easier to just sit down and sit here and say this and shut up in the background?

We sent Thomas Jefferson and the other guy to Florida to write up something for us all to see.

That's a lot.

Right gentlemen?

I wanted to ask that

I'm saying you're celebrating because you won't have to.

Did she make it to the last meeting or did she watch it?

I was going to say the new Roger retired from that.

I have a question.

Did anybody happen to walk by Park Plaza and look at the power lines?

It's electric, it looked like.

It was Roxanne's email through the, you didn't get that?

If it's the same one that's still on Google Street View, it's electric and it's not cable.

Roger, have you been doing that?

Yeah, no, I'm not getting that one either.

Roger and Tyler?

I'm getting things from Jeff.

Did you check your spam filter?

Apparently, you didn't get my reply.

Anybody who has Yahoo doesn't go through the CICI server or AOL.

The emails from the No Reply, Civic Plus or whatever, the online form when people fill out the online form to send an email to us, there are a couple people who aren't getting those.

My guess is it's their own server.

It was big so it probably got stuck.

It was the same thing, yeah.

Except the second had pictures.

I was expecting photographs of power lines, but it was 20 megs for a single page PDF.

It was only two pictures.

I was a little disappointed.

So actually, let me send the non-huge one to Todd.

You're interesting.

Oh, Brecht is going to do it?

On the down?

Which one of these is?

Okay.

I'm going to apply for that.

I'm going to apply for that.

We need business people on it.

That would be nice.

So if anybody knows, we're still looking at where you're looking.

It's business owner or is it something else?

I just wasn't sure if it was, some of those are either.

There are lots of architects in the downtown mall that we could reach out to, but that's just one more architect on the board.

So you already have a policy written.

Perfect.

That's going to be a short discussion, not.

Yeah.

Okay.

Can I have hot sauce also along with my gavel?

I'm kidding, I have some leftover from the last one.

May I have a motion to approve the consent agenda?

Madam Chair, I'm going to abstain as I'm one of the applicants on behalf of the University of Virginia.

Is there a second?

Second.

Okay.

Perfect.

And Mr. Warner, are you calling our roll call tonight or how do you want to handle that?

I'm actually a few seconds behind you on logging in.

I can do it.

Yes, would you please?

Mr. Schwartz?

Mr. Bailey?

Yes.

And Jeff, would you be ready with that first draft report?

So, do you have any questions for me about, you know, what is in the staff report or

Yes.

I mean, I have two parties that maybe the owners are prepared to address that.

I just thought that's okay.

And then if you were, then we could go take a look at the

I mean, we have a lot of information from staff and certainly from last month's discussion about a demo.

So it would be, you know, essentially allowing someone else to remove the building, put it somewhere, utilize it, but there would be no assurances that that would result in presentation.

So are you going to suggest that as staff or, I mean, I'm just thinking procedurally, how do I go forward with this?

Is this dirty enough to be removed?

Let me just ask.

And then it would be up to him, you know, to him and his family what they do with it after that, should no one step forward.

I didn't see in the staff report information about a removal.

It simply would be allowing its removal to someone seeking to use the structure.

I just kind of wanted to get the lay of the land procedurally.

And I'm offering you what's in the staff report.

With staff, because this is part of the staff report.

So that's what I can tell you, but you all are within your right to just simply review the staff report and if it provides, you know, what evidence is in there and make a decision based on that, that's fine.

Anything else that you'd like to offer, or should I?

I just had a question because you were saying that it was a contributing structure but I thought that I read and maybe I regret that it actually doesn't have any effect on our designation as an historic district home.

Removing it from this site will not place the National Register designation in jeopardy.

You're next up.

Nobody lived in it.

Well, people lived in 10 by 10s, but let's get, is staff report over or, I mean, staff can talk at any time, of course, but if I can move on to the applicant's presentation.

That's what I said, and you all are, I'm done with, unless you had questions for me.

If you could just tell us, not that we don't know who you are.

So I guess we'll, you know, if necessary, we will see you in front of facility council.

Mr. Zehmer?

No, I was just going to say, it's the letter that was sent in, considered a comment from the public.

Sorry.

She sent an email.

Oh, she sent us an email.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, she thinks that maybe, she's the one who said that it might be a ticket.

There's a sewer line that runs underneath his home.

So we know it's not a ticket.

I don't believe we've gotten any other comments from the public online so now thank you Mr. Zehmer we'll go to comments from the BAR.

Anybody else with comments at this point?

I don't know, as I mentioned last month I don't feel like it's beyond repair.

And so, you know, I think with that sort of narrow analytical focus, that would be my, my consideration.

and that I would be in favor of denying the motion for demolition.

So I think that that should be taken into consideration.

You said it will come down within a year or two.

I said that it will come down eventually.

I heard it within a shorter period of time than eventually.

Let me correct myself, I apologize.

Yeah, and if you could stand up that would be great, just only because the mics, where this is a virtual meeting so if anybody speaks it's good for you to be near a mic even though you can hear you just fine.

So I apologize for the miscommunication.

If your comments are directed to me, there's no need for an apology.

And we respect the process here, which is why we are here.

and if you'd like to address anything else that was said, you're welcome to.

I respect it.

Thank you.

And if there's a little pause in there, if anybody wishes to make a motion, you're welcome to do so.

It's not going to be me.

that is the subject of the application.

Is there a second?

I'll second.

No pressure, but I know that this was discussed at length during the last meeting, too.

Would it be helpful if I reviewed what the results would be?

And to be clear, I didn't.

I feel a little bit impugned tonight on my efforts to try and help.

I didn't know whether there was another plan.

And now, but yes, if in a denial, to be clear, go ahead.

None of this is going to affect our vote.

I know, I just want to make sure.

I think any discussion is appropriate at this point.

There's a reason.

So I think it is an important juncture for us to discuss what may be ahead.

Sorry to interrupt.

So Mr. Whitney I'm going to start with you.

Voting yes for denial.

The motion on the floor is for denial of the COA.

Mr. Zehmer?

No.

Yeah.

The Clerk of City Council is the person you would want to get in touch with.

It could be by email.

So, but once if an appeal, you know, should you choose that route, that would be Oh, no.

We will see you at city council.

You don't have to state all your reasons.

So whatever you need to say needs to be expressed in that letter and outlined.

And that's why that's the last- An attorney representing you might interpret the city code differently.

Yeah, but I'm not going to get in a fight with the city attorney.

So anyway, thank you very much.

Do you have an example that you could forward to me or is that what you handed me?

I can send you the last, I mean I can't say they were, it was well done, but it would be what my understanding is that you would be saying what are A, the reasons based on the guidelines, based on the BAR process that you're appealing

That we got it wrong.

B, what are those circumstances that you want city council to consider?

And city council is not codified nor limited by their decision-making process that this board feels itself limited by, is that correct?

Council can take things into consideration that otherwise the BAR wouldn't pay attention to.

Like an aging grandparent.

I mean yeah I would say the examples we I've dealt with because I've only had two appeals I would not say I would not share those as homework you want to copy and so it would be more yeah how do you wish to express it so I'll send you the action memo tomorrow and then just so you know what the date going into that first week of January we can we followed with that

I hope you all have a wonderful holiday.

So thank you, Jeff, for what you did.

My challenge is to, and I actually have expressed this I think to a couple of you, is to really just become a city employee and just do my job and not try to be so helpful because I get stuck in a bear trap.

Mr. Warner, I don't know if you have a staff report for us.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for your time and comments at previous meetings and I'm happy to answer any additional questions or comments you have at this time.

Sure, you can just hand it here to Roger.

And these are alternates.

Two of us were not here at the last meeting, so we're happy to, you know.

We need to look at this.

The other one's a little bit more muted, gray.

Do the renderings in the presentation are the original?

Thank you.

Yes.

Yes.

Thank you.

Is there an attention for one or the other?

But it's a coloring and paneling that's repeated throughout four levels of porches on the sides.

White, can you hear us?

That was the only comment that we had.

You're welcome to give any other comments about this application that supplement what you sent to us.

I may have a comment after you all talk about it.

Then I'll turn to comments from the board.

Yes, you said you had a picture.

Did you show the overhead lines?

I'm sorry, that's the picture.

The people on what Sam was talking about was midway through the line across Mr. Lowry's property that angled over to the ridge of their home, which was not affecting what we were doing.

It was not there.

This is what you see there now.

But there still are overhead lines.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That photograph is last Monday or Tuesday.

Thank you.

And I'll have rebuttal time, so I'll comment on the trees next time.

Okay.

This is a comment for Mr. Schwartz.

Does the sidewalk extend all the way to the corner currently or does it stop?

So this medium sized street tree or small street tree by the telephone pole has to be on the property.

So I prefer a picket rail of some sort.

So, what's typical?

Further comments about what's been submitted to us?

and that might at least go a little bit towards our the city's goal of more canopy trees and same thing for the district.

Just curious would the neighbors think that the tree was now shading their porch?

I mean it would be.

Okay, just saying.

I would take the email.

I would love to see some way to fit a decent sized tree somewhere on the property and I think that would be a good spot because it would also be visible in the front and it would shade your driveway area as well.

And I'll give the applicant and his representative in a moment just that chance to reply since we maybe get through any other comments from board members.

I just want to commend the applicant on working through the process and breaking down the size a little bit and working through breaking down the massing and I think the project has developed in better interest for the neighborhood and for the owner I hope as well.

And if, so go ahead, time for the applicant for any final comments, rebuttal, re-clarification, anything?

A lot more stairs to climb but at least they're inside if it's snowing or icy so I'd be happy to share this if it's gonna make or break things.

Yeah, just dogwood along there, yeah.

Yeah, they're out there.

And thank you for your time.

I wondered if we could just take a little straw poll on where members are with that, just because the applicant's rep kind of asked if there was some

Could it be helpful to see?

We've heard from a couple members.

So it's not an unfriendly thing to do.

when I walk by, but that's.

I think we try to ignore Jeff.

I have to like get that out of my head.

So I support it.

Anybody?

But yeah, as far as we're concerned, I'm going to let it go.

But I think we've taken up three minutes for her and her husband's comments.

I keep trying to find the motion.

Having considered the standards set forth within the city code including the ADC district design guidelines I move that

Second.

Is there any further discussion on this?

If I could rephrase, the end of the motion was BR approves the application as submitted with the ultimate in the RIP as noted in the staff report.

Alright, I'll second that too.

Mr. Whitney.

I'll vote yes for approval.

Mr. Zehmer?

Aye.

Mr. Birle?

Aye.

Mr. Bailey?

Aye.

Congratulations, thanks for your patience.

Sorry James, I just wanted to let that out for a reason.

Welcome to the neighborhood.

Thanks for y'all's patience and work on those.

Yeah, thank you.

I know where you work.

I know it bothers me when I get home late and I see you're still up there working.

I gotta start banging all the windows and say, you gotta go.

You good?

I'm not very good at pushing the buttons.

If you want to have a seat, we're just going to do the staff report first, so he'll go and I don't know how long he plans to go sometimes.

Sometimes I just go.

We don't know what it is, but I just didn't want you to be lingering.

Yes, sir.

I'm not, I understand about the encroachment, I think, but I'm looking at the Holsinger's 1915 photo and that portico that's on that, I mean, it's much further out than anything they're going to build there.

There's a reason I'm being very precise about this, and it's not related to this project.

We've received your materials and they've been publicly available for a little time but the clock will start and put a couple seconds on because I've talked into your time.

So we're trying to deal with that with the guest rooms and the terrace.

I believe those are the major changes from the last presentation and I'll turn it over to you guys to ask questions.

And then questions from us for the applicant.

I went and looked and is it directly next to the whitewash sample like by the where the new Portico will be going?

Oh, it's not coming up, sorry.

That would be great.

Yeah, or we can just pass it and we'll get it back to you if that's helpful.

Thank you.

I've gotten other emails during this meeting, but anyway, so sorry about that.

Well, did you take that?

I figured if it was helpful, but certainly.

So it came out a little pink because we did use red wash and white wash, lime wash.

No.

Oh, okay.

There's something that looks like that to the right of it, but that was not done by us.

Right, right.

All the bottom white.

I mean, the picture that you show of the house, that looks like it used to be painted white, and it's just, over time, is no longer painted white.

Right, and our building was painted white, and then someone did a red wash trying to cover up the original white paint, and so it's gone through a lot of

Okay, lime wash.

Because we have to do that to cover up all the decaying.

Your application is for this whitewash effect.

I mean we used the red wash, you know we heard what y'all said last time so we definitely added in the red wash but I don't think any of us are a fan of just all the red wash it's on there now and I just think it looks too even with the mortar ends up being pink and so I like the the light in the dark and

So that's not an option?

I think we're trying to use the red wash to bring in what y'all had suggested, but I don't think any of us want all red building, all red wash building.

Further questions?

the shutters and the doors and kind of turn on the rendering but then the sample that y'all did on the building is a little confusing I guess because you got yeah I went by the side because you painted the railing the dark color but then you've got the surround around the front door is the minty this mid-gear color

And the cornice.

And the portico and the back deck.

So the samples, we were just doing that to look at different options originally and we just didn't paint over them too.

And I guess it's hardest in the shadow, but the door itself would be dark and then the shutters are the light.

So on the front door, there's two sets of doors, and they'll all be the dark green, or the green.

And then... Oh, right, right, you're gonna reuse the doors.

And then the shutters will be the eucalyptus green.

Okay, thanks.

Cheri.

I'm not, anyway, on the top of the pediment, it looks like there's another color that, and I don't, this color, this, I know this is not turning out very well, but it looks pinkish, and definitely different than the owl, whatever color you call, the more.

Gray owl.

Gray owl, thank you.

We didn't paint the pediment, so it's probably.

would that be painted to match the brick, kind of the limewashed or?

So the cornice will be the, this will be the gray owl.

Right, but above.

And?

That's just the product that's gray owl.

Perfect.

Did I hallucinate that?

It's a link to the series of photographs from last month.

And that's in the staff report?

But I can pull in, I've got it all here, I can pull that up.

The up lights in the sidewalk and then the down lights that are on top of the pilasters are those?

Do not have a detail.

I'm just wondering if there's no specks or anything for them yet.

OK.

OK.

I don't remember seeing a picture of a lantern.

It's a real traditional New Orleans bevelo planner.

that are on one side, hopefully not by Sam Blasney.

That's odd because one side of the building they're painted and one they're not.

Did I miss the material call on that?

It's not part construction.

Anybody jump in?

Are we on comments?

I think still on questions, yeah.

OK, I think that would want to match the trim.

The inside ceiling.

I don't know why.

What word?

Paint.

Any other questions for the applicant?

So let's do the low-hanging fruit, I would say, first.

If I could also just one thing on here and I know it Mr. Schwartz has pounded this in my head is the issue of the location mechanical units and just I thought get some clarification on that because he'll call and tell me later that he can see them.

I know, there you are.

I'm getting old.

Thank you.

Yeah, the colors, yes.

Just go down through that list.

I thought I shortened your list, but maybe I took too much out.

It's a two-page list.

We can start comments there.

You may dive right in.

I think you should not tooth in the brick but instead allow a mortar joint to just show that outline.

Anybody else on the removal of the windows?

So I agree with Carl's comment.

Awning at the north entrance.

Unless you all had any issues with with how I've treated it.

Anyone?

But I think I'm not going to fight it.

Y'all are going to have to resolve that with the building official, right?

I would feel comfortable saying, keep going.

Like, would they take off the whole portico is where I was more... I mean, if it ended up... But it's just the steps.

Obviously, if the design changed like that drastically, I would say we need to go back.

I mean, it's been surveyed, so we're not talking about... Yeah, where was it?

Like the ramp, for instance, is on our property.

Right, we're talking about the awning, not the portico at this point.

I thought we were still... No, no, we're just the awning.

So two things.

I'm not having a good night.

We're still at the north, right?

Yes, the front door.

They may not allow the posts.

We're going down the list.

I don't know, 186.

things that are in the right-of-way like awnings and outboard dining and all that sort of thing are reviewed, approved or denied by the board and then they go for legal certification.

I know you know, and forgive me for being redundant, but it's necessary.

Is that a permanent, that's also canvas?

Yes, it's all Sunbrella fabric.

That thing's going to sag?

It comes down inside.

How does it do that if it's just only supported by poles on fabric gutters?

It's not a tremendous volume.

Yes.

Yes.

That's what the staff report says.

In this case, Jeff is right.

Pile on?

It happens occasionally.

Oh, my God.

In this particular instance, correct me if I'm wrong, but y'all are reusing doors.

I saw a pen and pen.

And the locking mechanism as well.

The green ones that are open like shutters.

If you look right across the street, they have the exact same markers.

I call them S-rings.

You can see it's a shutter dog.

And that's in jail.

I think the design is elegant and wonderful and I look forward to dining there.

But it's not one of them, you know, it's going to fuss too much over.

Absolutely as high as we could get it, it does touch the architrave.

Any other comments on the south?

It's not trying to be false historicism.