City Council Special Meeting   5/24/2022

Robertson?

That's it, if you guys would be so kind.

Anybody have any questions, concerns?

Yeah, just so, just for a summary, because I have gotten some inquiries on this, is that to qualify for this under $60,000 income and assessed value of the home under $420,000, is that?

$420,000, that's correct.

Okay, thank you.

So there'd been some, people wanted to see it moved.

Now considered a grant and, you know.

If your income meets a certain threshold, that will dictate the grant that you get.

Anybody want to make the motion?

as outlined in the packet.

Is there a second?

Okay.

McGill?

Yes.

Thank you all.

I'd like to call on Mr. Friess to begin our thinking.

Brennan Duncan, city traffic engineer, and myself will both be available in addition to the consultants to answer your questions following the presentation, and then we'll take some time for public comment.

Can we get an audio test from you, Amanda?

We're not hearing you.

Here I am.

Thank you.

up here.

Both voice and everything.

And that's all we have for the presentation.

Mr. Mitchell, questions for the team.

I mean, are more people living down that area, more people are driving that way?

So I don't have a great answer to your question, Jose, I apologize.

Do you guys have any idea what the socioeconomic demographics are of people that actually provide input?

However, it was not far down the list.

And what about the age breakdown?

I would have to go back and look.

Just a finger in the air.

I was focused more on the other issue than looking at the ages, but I'd be glad to go back and look and get you an answer afterwards.

of the speed limit, right?

Yep.

what that's going to do to traffic up and down this road and maybe on Fontaine and other roads every other Saturday in September, October, November when there are UVA football games.

I might let Jeannie or Bill take that one.

Did it have to do with shifts of traffic?

But what it would also do for those guys who get up 64 and want to come down that way and go down Elliott Street, which is what I do to get to a UVA football game.

We didn't really have a tool to measure that, how traffic would shift.

is the most those days are it changes the the traffic culture in Charlottesville when we have games, you know, bringing 65,000 people into the city.

with different strategies for handling reroutings and assigning people to go a certain way.

Mr. Chair, I don't think I've got anything else.

Dell, questions for the team.

Moving on.

What would be the ideal speed?

Bill or Jeannie, I don't know if you have other things that you would add there.

Yeah, the slower, obviously, the slower, the better when you're in a multimodal environment.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Mr. Alejandro?

helping traffic and then we're trying to calm it down in our study area or have they been integrated with the alternatives that have been proposed?

But there still are those bike and pedestrian improvements that would be consistent throughout the corridor in either option.

Is that what's being proposed?

That was just an oversight.

That's it.

Are we thinking about taking trees out in any of these, in any of the options?

We're not.

Cool.

Russell?

That is correct.

But all of those fatal crashes did involve some impact with the tree.

Right.

Right, but if the conclusion from that sentence was trees cause these fatalities, that would be an incorrect conclusion, right?

Sure.

Can you explain that a little better?

Um,

a little more about the, because clearly the numbers are important and I just, I'm not absorbing what it is.

Yeah.

And I can go back to that.

Consider it appropriate for a road diet?

a certain number of vehicles a day, you can, you can throttle that back according to VDOT and Federal Highway?

Yeah, got it.

So that's, I mean, I think this is interesting and well, I mean, it is important, right?

more their area of expertise than mine but you know other factors like the number of intersections and how the lights are timed and the number of left turns and those sorts of things also factor in so you might even be under the threshold but there could be other factors that are exist on the corridor that might make that not really feasible even if you're within the threshold yeah yeah okay cool thanks for staying with me on that

Do we have any dedicated bus lanes in Charlottesville?

Okay.

Can you speak to why that wasn't considered or is not feasible?

I'm going to let maybe Brennan take that or Bill or Jeannie.

And so even if they're then going 35 miles an hour, they're breaking the law and would get a ticket.

And those are all my questions.

Mr. Stolzenberg, please.

What's the current width of the right of way?

80 feet.

And then what's the current width of the median?

18 feet.

Or will that cause issues and cause the trees to die anyway?

I don't have a good answer for that.

So just by virtue of that, I have to say that if we cut into those root balls, then yeah, there could be some damage to the trees.

Are there actual obstacles between the moving cars at 40 plus miles an hour and the bikes?

But the idea is it would be physically separated.

It means a mountable curb, probably, or possibly a real curb and barriers?

Yeah.

I mean, my impression is that even if it were flex posts, and certainly if it were just paint, a two-put painted buffer isn't really enough to create something anyone would want a bike on, right?

Yeah.

And then in our standards and design manual or streets.work, are you allowed to put in

There are definitely things that could be done to provide that physical separation within that space.

Or are we saying this congestion is just from the through lanes alone?

Phil, you want to take that?

So that's kind of where we stand right now with the analysis process.

simply removing one travel lane.

So the intersection configurations are the same, except there's less approach lanes, less through lanes.

And does light timing change in this scenario?

Yeah, we can optimize those.

And in the alternative to road diet scenario, would we be adding, would we simply be removing a traffic lane or would there be other optimizations as well, like Arca?

I think that's what I recall.

But I just wanted to clarify that the reason for the R cuts is really for that intersection safety, not necessarily for corridor congestion relief.

So is it because we're removing the right-hand turning lane or the left-hand turning lane?

Just because we're taking a lane away on the main line?

That seems to be the start of the queue that then backs up all the way to 64th for northbound Cherry in the Am, or northbound Fish Street in the Am.

I mean, it's both Harris and Cherry, the two signals there that just back up extensively.

It becomes one lane maybe a block south of there in the current condition?

So

Is that more intuitive?

Then I guess the question is, is it feasible to restrict Fish Street to one through lane kind of further back at the parts where currently people are drag racing and then to still have those turning bays closer to the intersection so these cues don't develop?

It's something to think about.

Is it more challenging with bike lanes to have turning lanes?

You have to be very aware of what's going on to make sure there's not a cyclist present.

And so, yes, there are more conflict points when you have that merging that's happening at an intersection and trying to accommodate a bike lane.

No?

No.

Go ahead, Bill.

Yeah, it's just basically eliminating that outside through lane, and everything else stays the same.

But there is no outside through lane.

Where we have a right turn lane, there's still a right turn lane.

Does that explain it any better?

on things like shift to other entrances in the city, and maybe even, you know, just doing it for the southbound side so that we could see, you know, without risking the red queues, maybe only risking the blue queues, which don't seem quite as bad.

There's just not enough time to set up a pilot and have the results and everything of that done in time for an application in August.

Would the pilot be after the application, or are we saying we would do the pilot between now and the 2024 cycle?

Because we may just be trading one problem for another.

So is that the 18,000 on 2020 levels, or is that pre-COVID hourly patterns and levels?

So those numbers probably will rise, but, you know, we still don't know exactly what that'll be 20 years from now.

Mr. Bob, do you have a question?

Is that a bus lane lane all the time, or is it something like the HOV lanes where you can switch that?

It would be a dedicated bus lane, so 24-7 bus lane only.

Could we put in this application as a bus lane and then change it, and that could be our pilot, would that be, and then change it back to a regular lane if it doesn't work out, or is that bad?

I don't know that we can, because essentially that changes the scoring, and anything that changes the scoring, if you change your application, basically has to go back and get rescored through VDOT.

Thanks, I guess the would there be any benefit of having it not be a bus lane 24 seven?

one of the ways that you would be able to help alleviate some of the congestion and provide a viable alternate mode for those trips that would have been coming down Fifth Street.

So maybe tying it back to Rory's, the idea of where you get to the intersections, you have those turning lanes, it could switch to help alleviate that and integrate the turning lanes.

So as well as the fact that it provides an even bigger buffer between the normal traveling public and, you know, the bicycle and pedestrian facilities.

Mr. Palmer, questions?

Were these alternatives evaluated for which ones might be better suited for that kind of use?

So, you know, those special event type things can be accommodated in a lot of different ways.

I'd just like to hear your thoughts on that, if that was something you've thought about yet.

I don't know Jeannie or Bill or Brennan do you have other thoughts or comments on that?

It looks like it's medium intensity residential for whatever that's worth.

Mr. Payne?

Go ahead, Sena.

So that's just my comments.

I got some questions in there.

Was there something that you wanted a specific answer to?

That was what I was hearing more.

Very important and the make or break of many things, but we're not there yet.

Mr. Payne.

And I guess the high level question is, does it seem like there's anything that could feasibly be done at the Cherry Ridge intersection that would ease the congestion in this corridor since it seems like that's really the main choke point?

That's really where you get a lot of the choke point that gets back to 64 then is at that intersection.

Or is that just a totally unfeasible idea?

I just think that's difficult on an urban corridor.

Do we have any sense of how these different options would impact people who live directly along the road and their ability to sort of navigate that to get to their home?

Yeah, so, I mean, we had talked about, you know, buffered bike lane or separated bike lane, you know, if it was any kind of mountable curb, like there would be breaks in that curb for the driveways, they would still, at the very least, they'd be able to come out and turn right, so, you know, many of the driveways today are right in, right out, so you can only, you know, access them from one side of the roadway, that would not change.

Speed bumps at all an option that would be feasible to help deal with that issue of people being able to get to high speeds, either if they're racing or they fell asleep and their foot's on the gas straightforward, or is that also something that's just not really feasible for this road?

Just because of the volume of vehicles on the roadway, normally you don't consider speed bumps for anything over like a thousand vehicles, and we're 20 times that.

Is there any sense of which of these options would be most competitive with the smart skill process or any conversation with VDOT or is that something that will follow?

It just means that the other one would score higher.

And yes, it is.

Thank you.

We'd probably have to break it at Bailey.

Questions?

He's not with us any longer.

Oh, thank you.

First question, the traffic counts that we see, 16,000, 20,000, and so on, are those one direction or two directions?

Two directions.

Anything that is being done that is specific to helping them?

So what we're hoping is that with the addition of the flashing yellow there that would would turn on with that green ball that it'll kind of give those drivers a little bit more visual cue that hey there's there's potentially cars coming the other direction that I need to yield to.

Is there some standard within the business there that tells us this is the time to start looking at this approach?

Bill or Jeannie, do you have other things to add there?

you know you get to university and the hospital so it's a it's a complicated corridor it's trying to do a lot of things you know it's trying to be that regional connector it's trying to be somewhere where you can get off the bus with your pick up your kids and walk it's a complicated corridor but you know back to your point is really there's a lot of things that come into play with with thinking about changing capacity of a roadway yeah it seemed to me that that the approach to

It seems to me it's got to be more than 30 trips a day.

in affecting how many people get off the road and on the buses.

Thanks.

Questions?

Oh, you back?

Did I see that correctly?

She had a better grasp of that data.

I was actually going to defer to Jeannie because she did that.

Most of the vehicles traveling in the corridor are within a reasonable range of the posted speed limit.

Last study in the study.

Mr. Landro, please.

Is there a pattern?

and that was drunk driving related.

Thank you.

Mr. Pinkston, please.

What is the end point tonight in terms of a decision that has to be made?

Ideally, we would like direction on one of the options, or I guess two, like either road diet, no road diet, and either roundabout or no roundabout so that we can begin the design in one of those routes.

think it would be the least expensive and should have the most impact.

Mr. Mitchell, can I have your answers to those questions?

I think there's a public hearing associated with this, and I would not like to express an opinion until I've heard from the public.

Chrissy, does this make sense?

Chair, are you directing that to occur now?

Then we can answer the questions and move to the next item.

All right, hold on.

Edward, please unmute.

traffic light timing and Brennan had a lot of good other suggestions in terms of left arrows that are specific to each intersection because again three out of four accidents occur at the intersections.

Thank you very much.

Josh, can you hear me?

Josh, yes.

Josh, you muted yourself.

Josh, how's that?

There you go.

Thank you for your time.

Peter?

Anyway, thanks for your work and I look forward to watching the rest of the discussion.

Next, please.

All right, Chair, we don't have any other hand raised at this moment.

You've got to tell me.

And I'm definitely keen to do some of the low-cost stuff that's outlined in the report.

Mr. Hubbaugh.

And for all the low cost safety measures, they seem like easy hanging fruit, except for obviously removing the trees, but instead of that, adding the guardrail.

The trees were remaining.

Mr. Landryk?

Russell.

If someone could speak to that.

JPA and Monticello, like, we really want to, you know, see how closing this would impact those other access points to the city as well.

That's all from me.

Thank you, Mr. Stolzenberg, please.

Thank you.

Mr. Palmer, do you want to comment on this?

And I do like that idea of, and I think it's kind of decoupled maybe from this, but the park and ride, I think, yeah, I think more of those in our region can only be a good thing.

So,

McGill?

So that's my two cents on that.

We want folks to spend money here and buoy our tech space.

Mr. Payne, please.

I don't know.

Thank you, Mr. Pinkston, did you want to add anything?

But in the meantime, I feel like we need to do something because this is a serious situation in terms of safety.

Mayor Snook.

So I will leave that to you all and hopefully by the time it gets to council, I will have figured out more what I think.

Thank you, Mr. Wade.

I'm sorry, I'm having some trouble hearing you.

I think one may be away from his laptop.

Mr. Stilzenberg, did you have a question?

So given that we were going to split up the smart scale application anyway, is it possible to do just that Bailey roundabout as this year's smart scale application, get the ball rolling on that and then figure out what we're going to do with the rest of the corridor later for a later smart scale application?

but it's kind of split when it comes to a single round single lane roundabout versus a two lane roundabout and so if we're putting in an application where we don't know if we're doing the road diet yet just for a roundabout in order to build one for the road that we have today it would have to be a two lane roundabout so I'm not sure if people are comfortable saying that that's the way they want to go without addressing without it being a single lane.

David Ensign, But I guess if not, then never mind.

Yeah.

David Ensign, Mr. Wade, do we have you David Ensign, We still have no audio from you.

David Ensign, I wanted to step away from his laptop.

David Ensign, If you go to gallery view.

Yeah, I know he's he on, but he's not... No, no, he's shaking his head and trying to like... Mr. Wade, let's do some sign language if we could.

Oh, yeah, Tyler, please.

And for now, I'd like to go to Mr. Sanders, who can move us to the next item.

Good evening.

Jack?

they're funded, the funding hasn't hit and or it was accelerated, that funding was accelerated, so they're sort of yet to be really started, but they are real projects that are funded.

I don't know that.

So the next slide, please.

Is it possible for you to make the text larger?

Let's see what I can do.

I don't know, Patrick, if you can close your bar on the end there to increase some screen area.

Just a second.

So hopefully some of that will go down here in the near term, but there's lots more unknowns in this.

I have a question from Councilor McGill.

I thought we had unfunded West Main.

We're going to sort of do as it was and as we sort of propose.

Lisa Smith- Unless it can be done without any bonding, it's dead.

It is...

here.

And I believe that is my last slide.

At this time, I'd like to hear from the public on this, and then I'd like to hear your responses on this.

All right.

Oh, please.

That's my piece and look at how we want to move this program forward.

At this time, I'd like to hear from the public.