Board of Architectural Review Meeting   1/19/2022

Good evening everybody and welcome to the January 2022 Charlottesville Board of Architectural Review meeting.

We're now live on channel 10 and we're continuing to stream on the city's social media channels.

So for our new participants, we are currently probably being viewed by people out in the community.

My name is Robert Watkins, I'm city staff, and I will be making sure that things run smoothly virtually tonight.

I will hand things over to Brett Gastinger, our chair, in a little bit, but first I'll just go over a few guidelines, just to make sure that anybody who might want to participate knows what's going on.

So first, for anybody who might be watching from home, I will introduce the meeting participants who are online right now.

First, we have Brett Gastinger, the chair of the BAR.

We're also joined by Clayton Strange, Hunter Smith, Ron Bailey, and James Zehmer, who are also BAR members.

A few other members might join later on in the meeting.

And we're also joined by Jeff Werner and Patrick Corey, who are both city staff.

For members of the public who are on the call right now who'd like to provide comment, you can provide comment at the beginning of the meeting where we allow time for comments from the public for items not on the agenda or on the consent agenda.

If you wish to provide comment, you'll need to be a participant on this call and you can do so by going to the city calendar and registering for the meeting.

And when we get to the comment portion,

You can raise your hand using the raise hand feature in the participant tab, and I will unmute you.

And I don't think we're gonna need any breaks, but if we need breaks, our chair, Brett Gastinger, can direct us for when those are necessary.

Welcome to the regular monthly meeting of the Charlottesville Board of Architectural Review.

Normally, I would go into a longer introduction about how the process through which we'll listen to the projects that are on the agenda.

For those of the public that are tuning in, this is a bit of a unique meeting in that we do not have any formal items up for review by the BAR today.

But nonetheless, this still is an official meeting and we do have some things that we need to discuss.

I actually am looking forward to this meeting because sometimes we're so focused on the projects, we don't always have the opportunities to introduce ourselves to the public.

We have three new members that are joining the BAR this month.

And so we want to take a little bit of time to introduce the entire BAR that is able to attend today for both to the public and to each other.

We'll also make some space in this meeting for some discussion of some of the upcoming issues, kind of review of how our guidelines work and have some space for the team to talk together about our process and how best to best and most efficiently and most communicatively proceed with our work this year and beyond.

So with that introduction, I will proceed with our agenda and move into matters from the public for any items that are not on the agenda or on the consent agenda.

And today the consent agenda is only approval of past meeting minutes.

If you wish to provide any comment, raise your hand in the participant tab, or if you're calling in, press star nine.

Okay.

Then we'll move on to the consent agenda.

I'm not sure if we're going to have, we'll see if we have a quorum.

I wouldn't expect the new members to approve the meeting minutes from last year.

Yeah, James asked the same question, but I didn't factor in that two of the members weren't here for the last meeting.

Oh, I've got four now.

We can potentially table the approval of minutes to later and see if we get a quorum.

Yep.

Yeah.

Okay.

Sure.

Sounds good.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah, I said, and I know Brecht and Jody and James probably plotted this as helpful for you because of your knowledge at the university, but I sent that

just sent the PDF out in that email.

And let me find it and open it myself.

So typically when we've done these awards, so what it'll be is an eight and a half by 11 piece of hardboard that we call it.

Yeah, hard stock.

Right.

So and I just I wanted to like so ignore the shape and the size because it's I just stuck it into a cut and paste and stuck it in there.

So this was the there was the award for the memorial to the enslaved labors at the University of Virginia.

So typically we will

recognize an owner, the designer.

I don't know who the contractor was.

So and actually, Robert and I were talking about it.

I was intrigued that this project had been initiated by the students at the university.

So it's it is almost in my first part idea as well to the students, University of Virginia students, alumni.

But we decided to keep it simple.

And then those are the four individuals that have been identified as

having been involved in the design work, and I just didn't want to know what you all thought.

The contractor, the contractor, their name is Team Henry.

Yeah, we can do that.

I had reached out to her to get the actual name of this award accurate.

So I think she'd be willing to definitely help us out with that.

There's politics involved here.

There's definitely also like a community outreach arm of this.

And I don't know if that group has a name.

Just to work to the project.

Yeah, we've printed one, you know, Carl had to sign a whole bunch last year and printed one for each individual.

It is, you know, I don't know if less is more, maybe.

Generally, I think that we're probably not in a good position to know

to answer these questions.

I think that this probably should go generally to the applicant or the owner and ask who they feel should be recognized.

All right, I got to know here.

So the next one.

Oh, I scrolled mine.

Robert, next one.

That's just the rugby road.

Yeah, Robert and I were trying to think of the word.

You said outstanding in the virtual achievement, sort of a for what?

And I thought it'd be nice to at least say, was it the brick wall?

I know, yeah, that'll be a private word I give to Sandy Wilcox later, but yes.

Yeah, I think that's fine.

Okay.

Okay.

Kept all from falling over.

Okay, all right, you got this.

Wait, street scape improvement.

Okay, next one is, I just took the text from what Cheri had said.

Does that seem fine?

Okay.

I actually saw in the old files, they used to give out a, almost looks like a big trophy with a plaque on it for that.

So I'm very, very sure I'll be okay with just this.

The next one, this is that project over by Derry Central.

It's no longer Trinity Episcopal, but we've referred to the historic name of something.

Okay.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I could say buildings, plural.

But I don't know if all of those buildings were the former Trinity Church.

Is it just a sanctuary and then they built the others?

Yeah, it's a sanctuary and then the parsonage next to it.

Yeah, well, I don't know about the house.

The church used to be at the bottom of the hill across from the county office building, so I'm on the other side of McIntyre.

I got that one, that's good.

There's nothing wrong with using Kormark.

The rest of these are fine, so I just had them in there in case anybody said I spelled Jefferson wrong or something like that.

All right, we're good on those.

Yeah, I had to tinker with some hidden things and they're all fixed.

And here's a note from David.

Very good.

I got an email from Kevin Schaffer a few minutes ago about another project, an entrance corridor project.

And he said, I heard you had COVID.

I was like, no, my daughter did, but I didn't.

So I don't know what's out there.

He stole my link.

Welcome, David.

You'll have to rename yourself to go to the upper right-hand corner of your picture.

I've always wanted to be you, Breck, so maybe I'll just leave it.

Stand in line.

We all want to be Breck.

That's right.

I'll hand it to you, but this is where it's really, as Brecht said, I think, you know, Honor, I think I met you at some of True Craft's beer festivals.

And Clayton, I don't, we haven't met you.

David, I know you.

I know, you know, this is we're going on two years now since we we sat in a room with each other and to the three of you that are that are new to the BAR, we we typically started with, you know, sometime around five, hopefully sometimes a little earlier.

We would we'd feed you at the county office for the city hall and then, you know,

go through some things before the meeting.

So we weren't washing laundry on television and then walk up the hall, go to the meeting.

And typically afterwards we would get together and get to know one another.

So it's been difficult, you know, working with little heads in our little pretty front squares.

But I think at least for the next couple of months, this is probably where we'll be.

I know the city is looking to get staff back into the office

starting in March.

And I'm sure there will be some slow transition to in-person meetings of certain groups, particularly City Council, Planning Commission, Board of Zoning Appeals, and you all as BAR.

So I'll keep you apprised of that.

But I think it just would be helpful to each of us, staff included, tell each other a little bit about ourselves.

Well, I just add to that, too.

The BAR sometimes can feel probably a little bit opaque and strange to the public and not always know where we're coming from or who we are.

But we are all volunteers.

We all live in this community.

and we've all been selected and appointed by city council as a particular role, to take a particular role on this board.

So as we're going around, it would be great to also just know what position you're sitting in as we introduce ourselves.

I guess I'll go first to break the ice.

I'm Brack Gastinger.

I'm a landscape architect, but I also have a background in architecture.

Degrees from UVA spent a lot of time in Campbell Hall and have lived in North downtown for the past 18 years.

I feel that I was very lucky to work on landscape projects in a broad range of scales

and locations, but I was really excited about the chance to serve on the BAR as a way to be better engaged in the design issues that are confronting our city.

And we have such a fascinating mixture of stories that are latent in our built environment that are worth celebrating, preserving,

And at the same time, we're also a rapidly changing community, developing, building.

And so I really like the chance that we have to help shape that environment in a way that's cohesive and in the ways that it promotes a better understanding of our historic environment.

I'm glad to be here.

This is my first official meeting as chair, so I'll be learning a little bit along with you.

Carl did a great job the past several years, and so he has big shoes to fill.

I'll just call on you guys as we go, the way they appear to me.

Robert, would you say a little bit about yourself?

Yeah.

No, I'm happy to introduce myself as well.

So I'm not on the BAR.

My name is Robert Watkins.

I am city staff.

Jeff is the lead preservation planner for the city and I'm the assistant preservation planner.

I've been working for the city for two and a half years.

I started about six months before COVID.

I grew up in Southside, Virginia, about an hour and a half south of here in Charlotte County.

So I spent a lot of time coming to Charlottesville growing up.

And David, actually, I went to William & Mary and I took some classes in Tucker Hall, which I saw in your resume that you worked on the renovation a few years ago.

So I was excited to hear that you'd work on that because it's a really interesting building.

But I grew up loving old buildings.

I lived in San Francisco for a year before moving here to Charlottesville.

And I've really settled in nicely, even though most of my time has been during COVID.

So it's been great to work with Jeff.

It's been great to work with VAR.

Sorry, I just got a link from Robert Edwards.

Didn't get a link either tonight.

But I've just emailed it to him.

So hopefully he'll join momentarily.

OK.

Hi, I'm Ron Bailey.

My wife, Pamela Friedman, and I have been residents of downtown Charlottesville for over 22 years now.

And I'm the representative for the normal people.

I'm merely a resident.

I am not a person with a degree in architecture of any sort or the other.

though my wife and I both greatly appreciate the architectural richness of the city of Charlottesville.

I'm a journalist and I've been working at home downtown in Charlottesville for 22 years as well.

And I have found this a fascinating experience and I'm very sad that we've not been able in fact to meet in person and go out afterwards to discuss the architectural issues of the day as it were.

As I often say at our home, when we had dinner parties prior to COVID, but the joke is, you know, you're never supposed to talk about politics, religion, or money because people will get into fights.

We discovered that at our table, when we talked about architecture, that's where people really got into fights.

So I very much enjoyed this experience.

I've learned a great deal.

Excellent, thanks.

Sure, I'm happy to.

I'm Hunter Smith, in some circles known for founding Champion Brewing Company here in town.

My wife and kids and I have lived downtown since 2009.

So in our 12th, I guess 13th year here, currently live in North downtown.

I was born in the old Martha Jefferson, so despite moving far away to go to college in Boston, I ended up a literal stone's throw from where I was born.

My parents grew up in Albemarle too, so it's a bit of a family affair here.

Thanks.

Sure.

I'm Clayton Strange.

I'm probably the newest to the community of anybody on this board.

I moved here at the beginning of last fall when I was hired as an assistant professor at the architecture school.

Before that I lived in Boston and I worked for Moshe Safdie and before that I taught at Harvard and I worked in South Korea so I'm from a little bit of everywhere but really a Northeasterner but I'm happy to join the community and I was interested in

the board because I want to get more involved in the community and I want to talk to normal people who are not necessarily architects or professors about design and architecture and its impact on the community.

So I'm very happy to be here.

Well, yeah, it's it's it's kind of amazing.

It's the problems, you know, the issues that are brought up, they can range from little tiny details and

from preserving a window or a roof detail to really major new built environment that will really change the structure of our public space in the city.

So it's kind of great that we test our ethics and our guidelines on those various scales.

All right, James.

I'm James Zehmer.

I've lived in Charlottesville officially since 2017-18 and live in Fry Springs.

But I've worked at UVA for about 13 years.

Jody was my supervisor until he retired and was a great mentor.

And my father was also a historic preservationist.

I'm a historic preservation project manager at UVA.

So I was raised in the preservation fields, grew up in Richmond.

My family hails from Dinwiddie County, Virginia, where we restored a historic home when I was in high school.

I got an architectural history degree from UVA.

I think officially on the BAR, I'm listed as one of the architectural historians.

And after getting my degree, I worked for a restoration contractor for about five, six years.

And so I have some hands on experience.

and then translated that over into project management, which has been great.

And I think part of the reason I joined BAR was really to kind of expand my boundaries and my knowledge of Charlottesville architecture beyond the grounds at the university.

So welcome.

Sure, I'll represent the abnormal.

I am the representative from the Planning Commission.

to the BAR.

So I am serving my last year of the eight years that I'm allowed to serve.

I'll be rotating off or ending my service next August.

And I'm a preservation architect.

I have my architecture degree from Virginia Tech.

and I have an architectural history masters from the University of Virginia.

And I am now retired.

I retired in May after 16 years as the historic preservation architect for the university.

And then 18 years before that, I had my own practice as a preservation architect in Richmond.

I have just rotated off being the chair of the State Review Board for the Virginia Department of Historic Resources.

So I am, and now in retirement, I am dedicated to provide my services pro bono to small nonprofits that have historic African American buildings.

And I find myself doing, I'm right now doing a couple of churches, African American churches here in Charlottesville.

and about six Rosenwald schools and early 1920s African American schools in the central Virginia area.

And I'm looking forward to doing that full time once I finish with my service with the city.

Thanks, Jody.

I don't know what retirement is going to really mean for you.

It does.

Excellent.

Robert, thanks for joining us.

Sorry for the mix up with the links.

I know that there's a few, there are three new people that have joined us.

I see.

And I don't know if you caught the introductions for those folks or not, but we were just going around.

This has been, since we don't have a formal

agenda or formal projects on the agenda.

So we're taking the chance to introduce ourselves both to the public and to each other.

Yeah, sure.

I'm Robert Edwards from New York City.

I originally moved to Charlottesville to pursue a master's in architectural history.

And ever since I've been, I graduated, worked at Monticello for a little bit in the Restoration Department, and then started working for the National Park Service and the National Trust for Historic Preservation.

And a little over a year now, I've been working for Nelson Bird Waltz.

Landscape Architects as an architectural and cultural historian.

That's where I met Brett and that's how I joined the BAR.

But yeah, as Brett said, the weeks vary.

We can talk about dormers one week or we can talk about Confederate monuments the next.

Excellent.

Hey, everybody, can you hear me?

So I'm thrilled to be on the board, especially after hearing all these really wonderful introductions.

Seems like a pretty amazing crew.

And

My first stint in Charlottesville was way back in 2005, right, Breck?

I've been an architect for about 20 years.

We moved here in that time.

My wife went to school for getting her master's in landscape.

And at that time, Breck and I worked together.

Then we moved away, and this has been my kind of pattern in life.

I've been a wanderer.

It took me a while to actually get into the field of architecture.

Before that, I was doing a number of different things, not least of which some instrument making and some exploring here and there.

But we were away for about six years, I guess it was.

Seattle.

And then when my wife found out she was expecting, we were very excited to come back and be closer to families.

I'm originally from Northern Kentucky.

And my wife is from Maine.

So I went to college up in Maine, which is where we met.

But we were thrilled to come back and kind of start our life anew here, which we did.

It's been very interesting having a very different experience than I've been working with BRW Architects ever since, I guess, for about seven years now.

And I'm working on a variety of projects, residential.

Lately, though, a lot of commercial stuff over the last three or four years.

Very interested though in contextual design, very interested in historic preservation as well as new design.

So I don't see myself as a specialist or anything like that.

Excellent.

Thank you.

Well, the last member of our board, she's on vacation, well-deserved vacation, Cheri Lewis.

We'll have to introduce herself next month.

She's now our vice chair.

And Jeff, you didn't get a chance.

All right, so thanks.

So it's funny what Hunter said about Martha Jefferson.

When I tell people where my son was born and they say like, you mean that office building over there?

So you can tell the old timers from the locals, even though I'm not a local, but I'm originally from Baltimore and my wife and I and our two kids have

Well, we lived here for 26 years.

My son born and raised here and my daughter was three.

Both of them are grown and gone.

So I watch Rex to grow up faster than he.

He doesn't realize how quick they're going to be gone.

And I my heart breaks.

But it's originally I went to I went to West Virginia University, got a

degree in forestry and engineering.

Went into construction for about 10 years in Northern Virginia.

Somehow got a strange idea that I could go to grad school.

And I got in here at university.

Ninety-eight, I graduated with the planning and historic preservation.

And then I went worked for about 18 years with a local non regional nonprofit and became somewhat infamous for my ability to

to create change.

Four years ago, Mary Joy Scala, who everyone knows, retired from this position and opened the door, encouraged me to apply, and here I am.

And it's been an interesting journey.

After grad school, I worked in facilities management for a year, and I swore if I ever worked for government again,

I will do harm to myself, but yet here I am giving it a shot.

And I live in North downtown.

I talked my wife into buying this beat up old house that was built in the early 1880s.

It is an individually protected property.

So when people say, well, you don't understand, I say, I do in fact, because I've had to go to the VAR a couple of times.

And the,

Robert Watkins and I, we have, I used to say three legs stool to what we do, but it's actually four.

And a lot of people don't realize the extent to what we're involved in things at the city.

First and foremost is we're a staff for the board of architectural review.

That's what goes through to you all reviewing it, preparing it, working with applicants, et cetera, et cetera.

And then I'm also staffed for what the city calls the Entrance Corridor Review Board.

So that's sort of the BAR for the Emmett Street, 29 Ridge Street, sort of the commercial strip area.

So it's a little bit, I have a lot more latitude with administrative reviews, but still there's a design element there and I have to review that.

And then, of course, everything that you all review, they review, and then it goes through site plan, building permits, and there's a whole sequence of things that Robert and I have to stay on top of to keep things going.

The third leg of the stool is he and I are staff for the City's Historic Resources Committee, primarily responsible for helping to interpret and present some of the city's history, and we've been

It's been an interesting situation with trying to address a lot of what's going on and

And then the fourth leg, maybe not a complete leg, but we are, we do, Robert and I are in charge of the historic survey.

So when there's a, we work with DHR to get, for instance, a few years ago did 10th and Page neighborhood, and then working to get things under the National Register.

We'll be working with a small area over

North of 10th and Page that 12th and Rosser that wants to become a historic conservation district.

So it's working kind of on the ground with those getting things designated and protected.

And on the side, I play lacrosse and I coach at Charlottesville High School.

I've been coaching for 30 some years.

So I think if I had a passion, that would be it, despite my age.

And I will say that

To all of you, I sat down with the new, you all met James Fries I think in December and he and I sat down and talked again on Friday and just really positive attitude going forward and we've just announced, I think the city announced a new interim city manager so

At least what I sense is beginning to assemble the team that really kind of gets some stability to the city.

I think a lot of people are wondering what's going on, what's happening.

But the positive thing is you all have a role to play in that.

And we'll get into that a little bit when I talk about the design guidelines and some of the zoning revisions.

So you all do play a role in it.

It involves some homework and it involves putting in some time, but you're one of four kind of rather critical bodies to the city of Charlottesville as far as the groups that are

you know, like when we're talking about going to in-person meetings, you are one of the four.

And I know I already said that.

So Jeff, yeah, I think that's a good, you know, a good point, I guess, in a moment to maybe take a step back.

I know you've got to, we've got to kind of a number of, of things to, to talk about, but I wonder if you, to kind of keep a trajectory, we've got introductions now.

Could you say just a little bit about the,

So, and that's one of the, the first thing I'd say is the biggest misconception about what the Board of Architectural Review does.

We review the,

Alterations, new construction, demolitions within the city-designated historic districts or the city-designated historic properties.

There are, for example, Belmont is on the National Register with Belmont neighborhood.

It's on the National Register of Historic Places, but that does not bring the BAR into play.

The BAR has purview over those locally designated properties.

For example, my house, I am not on the Virginia Landmarks Register.

It is not on the National Register.

However, it is locally designated and therefore you all have purview.

Yes and no.

There's some where it looks like a kid scribbled a line, some places they overlay perfectly.

It's tough to tease out the minutia sometimes with folks, because I don't want to sound like the state or national designation is meaningless.

It does have meaning.

But as far as what you all have purview over, and so there are, yes, individually listed sites, there are listed districts.

In Belmont, for example, the National Register District, there are properties in there, I think three or four that are

individually what the city calls individually protected property.

So they're not IPPs because of the National Register District.

The National Register District just happens to coincide with.

That makes sense.

There are some conditions when there is a historic

Thank you for that question.

If someone's working with the Department of Historic Resources on a project that has rehabilitation tax credits, I can review that administratively.

The challenge is often that

DHR is reviewing one scope of work, but there's other things that are gonna be done.

So this is where, you know, I have to split hairs sometimes, but it's, I tell you, it's a lot easier to express example by example.

So it might be, it's gonna be a little bit like dipping candles in how that's dealt with.

We don't, one of the things that's come up is, all right, well, when the city's building a new bridge, why was the BAR involved?

But yet when the,

City puts in a new sidewalk, why was the BAR not involved?

So those are some of the things we're still working out.

And then there are, so we have the ADC districts, architectural design control districts, West Main, Downtown, North Downtown.

We have, even within those districts, there are IPPs, but we treat the IPPs and the ADC district properties the same, so it's the same review.

Then the city has what are called historic conservation districts, Willam Mills, Rugby Road, Martha Jefferson neighborhood.

That's a historic preservation light, if you will.

I have a lower level of review.

Really, what can you see from the road type of thing, whereas with the other districts, it's 360 degrees.

So that's the, but they still come to you

at the BAR.

And I will say there is discussion of having the BAR review entrance corridor projects.

So we'll have to see about that.

Broad brush, but... Yeah, no, I think that's good.

I think, you know, some things that are sometimes mistaken is that we do not review any anything involved in the interior of restructure.

We also

It sometimes gets discussed, but we're not really supposed to talk about either the cost of the project or the intended use of the project.

Some of the project issues that come up are really planning issues.

We do need to continue to refer to our guidelines as what grounds us and gives us

And it's even, you know, when you've borrowed into something, it might be only one sentence in the guidelines, another project will come in and

presents a different lens to look at it.

One thing to be clear is that all actions by you at the BAR are appealable to city council.

So you are not the end game if someone chooses to question a decision.

So when I've heard people say, well, the BAR won't let this happen, that's not possible, because if it's something you disagreed with,

then that can be appealed to city council, just like we have coming with that project on Preston Place.

So you all are not a legislative body.

You don't make laws.

You interpret guidelines and policies and make decisions.

But someone can always challenge that decision on the latter.

And I think it's important to understand that.

And so also, Hunter, and this is where you are from the business perspective, would be tremendously helpful.

And David, I know has dealt with things as an applicant of the BAR.

I think Bruce is getting everyone at BRW cycling through to the BAR to get experience.

And Clayton, with your design perspectives and experience,

One of the things we've, things have changed in the last four years.

We used to take large projects and we're getting large projects a little more frequently than we used to.

We used to approve them in incremental steps.

That was just the way it was done.

That's how I continued doing it.

We now can only review, we can only grant something approval once.

We can't say, yeah, the color's great.

Check, you know, come back next week with the landscape.

It's created for these large scale projects where the design process is iterative.

The applicants understand it, but it has

It's created some uncertainty that we've been ironing out as we go with Bushman, Dreyfus, S.R.

Peachtree, I think on all the projects that we looked at.

But there's so there's some process sometimes where I don't want to say we're making it up as we go, but there are we have some hard and fast rules from the city attorney.

and sometimes I can't answer a question.

So that's one of the things that will be difficult for you all coming in new.

Normally the stuff gets, it comes in, I get it three Tuesdays ahead of the meeting.

Robert and I try to turn it around, get the staff reports and everything out to you guys as quickly as we can.

And it's critical then that you all look at those things and are familiar with them.

Well, it's difficult when I've kind of gone through this and where we had the applicant in front of us and VAR is going, what about this?

What about this?

What about this?

We'd like to, as much as possible, get those questions out of the way so that we're prepared for them at the meeting and not shrugging our shoulders.

Because our goal is to really help the applicants get to where they have approved the project.

and we have to apply the guidelines.

They're not perfect, but it's as Brecht said, people have come in and said, we don't want you to build that there.

And that's not your choice to decide is what is proposed to be built there.

consistent with the guidelines or not, not whether or not, as we've said, someone can build a big empty room, you know, and all we look at is the outside or that big empty room can be, you know, a big block of concrete.

And as long as the outside meets the guidelines, then that's what you often look at.

No, that's great.

Have you guys distributed, have the new members received links to our guidelines?

The other thing I would mention about getting familiar with the guidelines is to also take a look at the Secretary of Interior standards.

Our guidelines refer to them in several places.

They can be helpful in that they might give a little bit more detail where our guidelines do not.

They cover more situations.

And I would just encourage everyone as we are reviewing projects in the coming year to try as you're thinking of questions and reviewing the work ahead of time to refer to guidelines for

I sent something to Hunter and Clayton and David and the links to

I said we could print it if we want.

When we have our meetings, we actually have binders with the guidelines in it that I put at everybody's place just so you have something there in front of you.

And I also had mentioned that we should distribute hard copies.

I had a terrible time getting used to reading drawings on my computer screen.

My son who's in finance gave me this giant screen that they use and it's been wonderful.

But if at any point in time you wanna see something physically, tell me.

You know, if we want to see a sample of something, we can ask an applicant to make that available.

So, and I said, we'll start to transition that.

But if, you know, I know Carl just took him a while to get used to not having hard copies and I can still get them from you if you want.

I'll also say the best way to reach me is email.

As a government employee, I can tell you when that phone rings, it's like, all right, now I'm stuck for two hours.

So we really try to encourage people to email if you really need to reach us.

And I think it's a small enough town.

We probably, I don't know, Brett comes over and throws rocks at my windows, making me come out.

So the,

I have a note here about the schedule for 2022.

I put that out there.

I can circulate that again.

Robert and I had a bit of our brains seized up for February.

But we are meeting on that third Tuesday of February.

So I just want to make sure I cleared that up.

The next meeting will be on Tuesday, February 15th.

We have several items coming in already.

Should be interesting.

And then the only other meeting I think that we don't meet on a regular third Tuesday is in June or some holiday.

But whenever you see one of those Monday holidays that bumps City Council, that's what bumps.

It happens once or twice a year.

And then, Breck, you said something about the authorization or sort of what we are.

The City of Charlottesville is what the Department of Historic Resources has determined that we are a certified local government.

We meet certain provisions that were established by the National Park Service relative to, we have a Board of Architectural Review, we have a Historic Preservation Plan and Ordinance, and we have professional staff.

So that certified local government status

makes it that we can get grants.

And I know at least, certainly in the last four years, I think we've got like 80, $90,000 in grant funding towards about $150,000 worth of work.

So we were 150 plus about 80 or 90.

So we've almost eight to one funded things like historic surveys,

with grant funds.

And that's available because we maintain that status as certified local government CLG.

One of the requirements of being a CLG is that every year, right about now, I have to complete this report for Department of Historic Resources.

And one of the categories is that I have to note each of you did at least one hour of some training relevant to being on the Board of Architectural Review.

and it really is the sky's the limit.

Cheri uses some of her legal training.

So it's, I heard from everybody, but a couple of you, and this goes from, it's a weird year.

They go by like the September to October.

So it's, and I just checked the dates, but if you didn't respond to that, you know, if you did something, went to something, watched something interesting on YouTube, send it to me so that I'm not saying that our,

CLG status is at risk.

No one has said that, but I do want to take that seriously.

That is part of my responsibility to make sure that you all are, you know, staying current.

And part of that too would be that we could have special meetings where we do training sessions, like arrange to have some come in and talk to us about window repair, things like that.

So, but, so going forward, but just go back and check my email.

You guys that are recently on, that's something I'll ask you about a year from now.

and then, yeah, those were my notes other than getting into the other discussions later.

Well, I wondered if maybe as a follow up to some of that, if any of the current or the previous, I guess,

Older members on the board have any thoughts or comments about our process or ideas about ways we could be more efficient or better communicators.

No questions.

That's great.

Well, I do have a question, though.

Yeah, we just didn't have anything on the agenda.

And Robert

He ran out of town.

I had to send people to find him.

He was hiding in California on a beach.

And he texted me and said, hey, did you post the agenda yet?

So I just, that's why I said I will start at 5.30.

But yeah, traditionally, typically, unless something unusual like tonight's meeting occurs, I want to try and meet at 5.

You will find

And Robert, I was going to say that when we meet in person again, which hopefully it might be in a few months, we'll have food for that.

About 37 meals.

We're just going to have just pizzas.

It's just going to be.

Yeah.

I will say I did talk to Cheri a little bit about those questions and one of the suggestions she had and I agree with is that Jeff, I'd like to work with you and Robert about the agenda for that pre-meeting and maybe run that agenda just so that we feel like it's efficient and make space for any questions on the projects to be discussed that night and then any of the other things that we want to get to

We want to make sure that that feels like we're getting good work done then.

Related to just the general, the way that the board is functioning during the review of normal projects, I will say that one observation that I've had over the past couple of years is that one of the things that can make our meetings run long sometimes are the ongoing conversations.

that are either back and forth amongst ourselves or with the applicant themselves.

And I think we can try if we are prepared and reading the materials ahead of time and come with our questions and thoughts that we could probably reduce some of that back and forth that is less efficient and maybe get to

I think, Jody, the process they used at the State Board was really good.

And on a bracket, obviously, you and Cheri can sort of, to your, how you viewed it.

But it was the sort of going around next, next, next, next, instead of a free-for-all.

Yeah.

Any other questions?

You guys are good?

So if I wanted to just, and thanks for that, I just wanted to touch base on what's coming up with the design guidelines and what's coming up with the code revisions and the opportunities that we have.

So if you're ready for me to kind of touch on that.

All right.

The design guidelines and what I sent out to you all, and also again that distinction between the design guidelines for the ADC districts and the IPPs, and then the guidelines for the historic conservation districts, they are separate.

And in fact, for each of the conservation districts, there's a short list of criteria specific to that district.

So,

The guidelines were last reviewed and updated in 2012.

As you all know, the city's been working on a comprehensive plan revision, so we're sort of, among other things, wondering what would come out of that and any instruction that it gave us.

But I have,

We had tried to kind of do it in-house, VAR meeting regularly and sort of working through some changes.

That just kind of stalled.

And I think we also recognize that the city council will ask about public participation.

So with that in mind, last year, I asked for funds to be allocated so that we could hire a consultant, come in and help

not only with the ADC district, but each of those individual conservation districts and help us with any public outreach.

But what I wanted to do, and I know we talk about this a lot, but there are a lot of things in there that we could fix.

There's a lot of ideas.

And so

If everything continues the way the budget is, I will have funding as of July 1 to use to put out an RFP to get a consultant to look at our design guidelines.

So between now and then, I want to be working towards a scope of work that we would put out for a consultant.

So put on your thinking caps if there's some

You guys are in the design world as well.

And then I'm also going to be working towards that and just you all are going to be my star chamber and getting your input on what is in there.

So that's kind of a heavy lift going into 2022-23.

So the second piece,

of this is the city is revising its code, its ordinance as a function of the comprehensive plan change.

There are, we have two sections of the code that apply to us, Division 2, which is the Historic Preservation ADC District, and then Division 5, which addresses the Historic Conservation Districts.

We have been at, they've asked staff to submit to, a consultant's already on board and they're already working on this.

What recommendations, requests, suggestions we have for modifying the ordinance.

So again, I'm working on that myself, but I ask each of you just to go through that thing and the,

I've been dealing with it for a while.

Is there anything in there that seems ridiculous or seems wrong or the points don't make sense?

You know, for example, we refer to structures, we refer to buildings, we refer to properties, we refer to resources, and then they sort of get thrown around like, well, what is it we're talking about?

Exactly what we dealt with with the statues.

Are they a structure?

Turned out they weren't anything based on our code.

So, you know, things that if there's anything in there, I'd love your feedback.

I'd love your thoughts on that.

I think we need to do some things differently.

I think we need to be great to get a contractor on the BAR.

And I think that there are some

administrative reviews that we could be doing a lot more of.

And so just want you to give that some thought and know that this is really, this one's coming quickly.

And so it's sort of, we have the opportunity to participate.

So that's the invitation.

I mean, you're not required to, but it would certainly be helpful.

Cause I think we need to strengthen how we do things and be more clear about how we do it and what we do.

so that the design review doesn't get set aside in this community.

That's one of my concerns.

Jeff, when you talk about the zoning changes that will come out of the comprehensive plan, are you speaking about

That's a great question and I think that the answer is yes to both.

How historic preservation and design are addressed in areas in which the BAR has purview and in areas that it doesn't because one of the things you

We've been discussing a lot is lighting and trying to get something comprehensive throughout the city, not just the lights that are within an ADC district, and particularly the LED lighting.

It's been quite a learning curve for all of us, the difference between incandescent bulbs and LEDs.

So yeah, it would be in all places, how does that overlying zoning,

you know, conflict with or work with the objectives, the design objectives of the city.

I have a suggestion, Jeff, for, I suspect many of the board members

don't work with the ordinance a lot.

Yeah, if you're good at editing and proofreading, a lot of missing commas and things like that, they would be

You don't need to be an attorney.

I think that's a good idea.

You were going to tell us that you're an expert on LED lighting.

I don't know, Hunter, how, you know,

I mean, your observations around town, because one of the things like I don't know, some of you may most do, you know, but some may not have noticed.

What was it?

The standard on West Main that just had those those look like a vertical Scots.

There were about 20 of them down the length of the building.

And it was absolutely like, you know, blinding.

you know and it's wondering if anybody noticed and I know 100 like businesses you know they're always like yeah we want the brightest sign we want the brightest you know you guys having you'll have to answer sorry I mean yeah I mean I think every you know obviously everybody wants visibility but I don't think it you know to the detriment of light pollution or the neighborhood or anything like that I mean I think

Also, getting in trouble, so to speak, or being in the public eye for the wrong reasons isn't necessarily helpful as a business either.

I think maybe the last thing you want as a new project is to be living in the comment section for why your project is problematic.

and you know 102 it's where that that interface of the public right of way and you know the city stuff and then where then BAR gets involved and sometimes that's a little you know

We are in a business that's dealing with that.

The city says I must, the city tells me this.

I mean, that's going to be tremendously helpful.

I think, you know, how does, you know, one of the questions I was asked when I interviewed for this job is how does historic preservation and economic development relate to one another?

Well, they're all, they're the same thing, essentially.

All right, so that's really all I have.

Otherwise, just said it would be a short meeting if you all have any questions about anything, what's going on in the city, when's it gonna snow again?

I don't know, I don't know.

I just will tell you, I started that Monday when it snowed with a colonoscopy appointment at UVA.

This was what, the fourth?

And I'm like, oh my God.

And they called me at 6 a.m.

and said, can you make it?

I said, I will walk there.

Breck had to help my wife take out the car.

And I just literally like, oh my God, I like to think about this.

Can we just fast forward to 2023?

But I think things are stabilizing a little bit, I hope, although David's wearing a mask.

So that's all.

So Brett, I'll hand it to you.

But thank you, Clayton.

Hunter, I know we've met.

Clayton, good to meet you.

I look forward to actually seeing, you know, and Robert Edwards is really tall in real life.

That's what we were quite surprised we met him in person.

He's a much bigger person than

and a little guy.

So, all right.

No, I don't have any, any, anything else for this, this month, unless there's any, any other further questions.

Yeah.

Mr. Chair, we started the meeting by tabling the consent agenda.

Waiting for our members to join.

Excellent.

Robert Watkins?

Oh, sorry.

I'll call a vote.

We might ask you to abstain, or I'm not sure.

Yeah, whatever you like.

Mr. Lehendra.

Aye.

Thank you.

Quickly, I remind, what you asked me about the VAR.

In the ordinance, you all are an advisory body to counsel on

all things sort of design related, preservation related.

So as far as making observations on other parts of the complaint, that's entirely within your purview.

Yeah, so since last summer, we were awarded a cost share grant through the Virginia Department of Historic Resources, where they're contributing money towards a historic survey that we're doing at the downtown mall.

This isn't of the buildings on either side of the mall, it's of the landscape elements that were installed by Lawrence Halperin in the 1970s.

and features that have been installed since.

A team of architectural historians, I don't remember the consultant's name off the top of my head, but they are based in D.C.

and they're also going to be joined by Lara Knott, who's a local landscape architect and historian.

I think they're going to kick off the historic survey

Maybe this week, but I'm not sure if their plans have changed with the snow.

But they're going to photograph the lampposts, the planters, the benches that remain, the bricks, and they're just going to create an inventory of it that'll go into the Department of Historic Resources records.

They're also going to do some

preliminary conditions assessments as well.

And this is just going to be the document that's going to be completed hopefully by May will be the first step towards a more comprehensive plan for taking care of them all moving forward.

It's going to turn 50 years old in 2026.

And working towards that, we just want to make sure that the city has

A really good decision making matrix for how to take care of them all moving forward.

So last month we had a webinar that you can find through the Department of Historic Resources website.

I can forward you a link.

I also had an interview with NBC 29.

Scared my pants off, but it was, I did it and there's some good publicity about this already.

That will be a really important topic of conversation, I'm sure, for all of us this year and in the coming years.

Jody, that's some kind of some longer term survey planning that Jeff and I need to work on.

That's not the current scope, but we recognize that a lot of the historic surveys for the city are out of date, not only downtown, but also over by the university as well.

The concerns, the sensibilities have changed in regard to what's historic and what isn't and also time issues.

Buildings now have fallen within the 50 year mark that weren't there when the survey was done and also changes.

I know the buildings that have gotten rid of their modern

This is a huge piece of what we need to do.

There are

I'd say maybe at least half of the properties that have been surveyed were done back in the late 70s and the early 80s.

I mean, there's stuff that's gone.

And this is where, and you all, the BAR, you're our advisory body on the historic surveys.

And we need to kind of get you more involved in that, but we have,

I have a limited amount of funds that, and that's where we last, well, we had a grant to do a survey of the city's historic cemeteries, four cemeteries, but because of COVID, we just had to shut that down.

We're looking at, for example, there's a corner

you know where Tarleton, Oak, that corner of North Downtown on the south side of High Street that was never surveyed maybe that something should be done so Robert and I were talking today about evaluating Penn Park and I don't know Hunter and Clayton and David if you followed with the unmarked graves that were

I don't know what the right word is, discovered, located, that we realized are at Penn Park.

And some really exciting stuff that's been going on that you all aren't aware of.

Our efforts to identify who those individuals were, it's been amazing.

knitting it together.

And we've identified people who are descendants here in this community.

One's a friend of mine.

It's been really fascinating.

But the idea of evaluating the park as the larger landscape of the Gilmer Estate from the late 1800s.

So how I allocate those resources, this is where I

I need your help and I'll be bringing things to you on that.

So yeah, Jody, one of the things that I have in there is to go back and look at all of these 1970, 1980 surveys and update them.

So I would suggest that since there are only limited resources available, that we be very intentional about how we use those.

And it's separate from the mall cultural landscape report.

There was a specific $50,000 allocation a couple years ago.

So that's what we're using for the mall work.

And I'm working with my boss to nudge that towards a long-term

Not just a preservation plan, but a maintenance plan of them all.

What are the things that are going to happen next?

When do the lights need to switch?

When do you have to put the bricks back?

What's going on underneath the bricks?

What's going on with the tree grates, etc, etc.

So we're trying to get a lot done.

We were able to use money with a grant to already stretch that $50,000, another $10,000.

But as far as those reevaluating the surveys in the downtown or around town, yeah, Jody, we need to look at that and come up with some sort of a, I told Blake McDonald, some sort of a diet on how to approach it and how to do the best, which you're absolutely right.

Even when you retire,

Excellent.

Well, do I hear a motion to adjourn?

So moved.

Second.

So I'm guessing we're all approving that.

We'll see you all in February, if not sooner around town.

Thank you.

Thank you, everyone.