Planning Commission Meeting   10/8/2019

Thank you.

And the procurement process continues.

No report?

and at that meeting they decided to dissolve themselves and form a new body that will be meeting behind closed doors and giving twice a year updates to each of the respective bodies and the hope is that by being able to meet privately they can start talking about ideas at an earlier stage in the process between the three different jurisdictions.

Sorry, it threw me off my game.

So council will see it soon.

So as soon as I hear more information about what it is and where it is, and Ms. Robinson may know or have heard about this,

Yeah, and we watch that stuff too.

But I think it's probably something big as we move forward and go through our legislative agenda, which is now, and see what happens with this Supreme Court case.

UVA, any words from Leo?

Thanks.

Ms. Creasy, I think you've got something for us.

So you guys will be one of the early steps in having that review on the 29th.

Is it just an advice session or are we voting?

We'll all be on that ride together.

Sorry.

October 29th, which is the Tuesday, will be in the NDS conference room five to seven.

That's it.

Right.

We're not having a meeting then on the 21st?

No, no, we're having the 15th and the 29th, so that's what we got.

If there's anyone that would like to speak about anything that's not going to be covered later on tonight, the two things being the amendment and the rezoning, now would be an opportunity to chat with us.

Thank you.

So thanks for your time today.

Ms. Creasy, would you review the changes in those minutes?

So this is just making sure that those things match and match you all's vote as well.

All in favor?

Aye.

We will be in recess for about five minutes.

Thanks.

So I think we are ready for a staff report.

With that I'll take questions on the reports from both commission and council.

Matt, is there an existing SUP on the historic house on Murray?

That SUP expired because it was not acted upon within the 18 months once it was passed, so there is no SUP.

So the only current, there are no current restrictions on the, well, there weren't even then, but it's just the R2U zoning that is on the site right now.

Thank you.

Any other questions?

Is that correct?

and volunteer a proffer on his end, but it is completely voluntary.

Thank you.

Ms. Green, looks like you're thinking about something.

Y'all go ahead.

What you thinking about?

Okay.

Would the applicant like to chat with us?

So we're hoping to have all of your support on this tonight and Kevin will go over a little bit of the architecture with you and kind of give you an idea of what we have on that and of course both of us will be available for questions anytime you have them.

We included those mainly to give you, I think, a sense of the spirit that we'd be pursuing in developing this project and to just try to make this development a good neighbor to the people that surround it.

Thank you.

Questions?

What's like front doors on the street?

Those entry points, the paths, we chose awnings, for example, that are there at the entry points that we think give it a kind of a scale and presence that suggests or it helps the buildings to acknowledge the street and entry points from the street.

Thank you.

Mr. Green, you've been dying to get in the game.

You're not going to want to like what I have to say.

Oh well, here we go.

So in the name of affordable housing, you want to rezone and change the comp plan, correct?

We want to rezone.

of housing numbers?

We intend for it to be community space of some kind and or residential living space, but I think making it exclusively that might preclude an opportunity for something that would be a good use like a daycare.

I mean hotel, playground, ballpark?

So either way you're still going to have at least 31 residential units even if the manor house that's existing was used for something else.

We could put a athletic facility here.

But having that flexibility for somebody 20, 40 years from now might be a good thing to have mixed use.

It didn't give us units.

I hope it did.

Thank you.

Do you know what your plan is for the Manor House building, whether that's going to be residential as well or?

That's our plan.

See where number three, III?

Yeah, it would include all residential square footage I think is the intent, if it were commercial or community space or something like that.

You know what I'm asking is to be constructive, you're not constructing the manor house that's already constructed.

Okay, so those square foots are included.

But if you use it for something other than residential space, then it doesn't correct.

How are you thinking about the use of this property?

Like I said, I wouldn't necessarily want to preclude it, but right now it's planned to be either community space or residential space.

Mr. Armstrong, are there deed restrictions on the existing house that provide for its preservation?

There are.

Could you review those for me?

We talked about this last time we were here, but so now we have added a proffer that would be a zoning issue and would be enforceable by the city that almost exactly matches the deed restriction language so that it could be enforced by multiple parties, including the city.

Thank you.

Are there any other questions from the board?

What is the timing requirement of 3BI?

Where are you?

What does that mean?

I don't know where you are, Lyle, I'm sorry.

You're right, there's no 3BII up here.

and then under number three if the cash contribution is the option selected that that payment would have to be made prior to getting a building permit.

Thank you.

I caution Commissioner Solla-Yates to not apply his normative expectations of what a college student may or may not require in there.

Thank you.

Looks like we have Adrienne Dent.

that that is under discussion now and yet the public who's, you know, spending their time to learn about a lot of different things.

Can you state your name for us?

So to share the numbers of a quote in favor of this application is irrelevant.

Jennifer Ward.

So it would totally change the atmosphere of the neighborhood as it is now.

Would you like to speak?

and quite frankly I see, maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I see four levels of four units.

It just seems so big.

I've also been worried, and I think because I've done a lot of this.

Would you just kind of move it over to the council to see it?

There's one, two, three.

Lisa, could you guys hear that?

I think it needs to wait, be reviewed with some zoning.

Anyone else like to speak?

I wrote to you earlier, and I apologize for doing it at the 11th hour.

You know that I know better, so I'm really sorry.

It possibly uses in the matrix very, very carefully given this location, which is strategic in terms of its location in our city.

Just cut and paste it into this.

So thank you for the opportunity to speak with you tonight.

All right, we are closing the public hearing.

Or how is this going to go?

So yes, we would vote on that and then vote on the rezoning.

Yes.

I know you're waiting a while.

So I cannot support this as it stands.

The motion, take out the offending pieces of the matrix and say these will be restricted.

No, because we did not, we didn't advertise for that.

Is Ms. Green correct in the way she interpreted the formula that, because that's what I was asking is when with this formula and they use the term to be constructed

It could be potentially problematic, so unless the applicant were willing to volunteer some clarifying language, I think we do have a problem with clarity, as Ms. Green suggested.

Since we are in conversation, I take people to court all day long over language like this, and I can promise you we would win.

That's why I was asking.

To be constructed is extremely clear.

Mr. Landrieu.

I keep hearing, Ms. Green, I keep hearing reference to hotels, but I do not see that in the matrix.

That does also not give us two dollars per square foot.

Mr. Stolzenberg.

and so if I'm saying I'll build 33 which is I don't know I'm just I don't have the numbers two units then I've seen this happen not this developer but I've seen it where okay I'll just build 31 and I never get that those two affordable units a bill now I know these are in buildings but we don't know what the final thing will look like

Not imposed by us.

Changes can be proposed within a proffer.

We can make them.

No.

They can make them.

That's right.

Gotcha.

Okay.

It becomes housing, certainly.

Is that permissible by right?

what the height of that that type of use can be but is it assuming there it that it's within building code requirements it it can be whatever height is allowed in our zoning district so it's pretty desirable property right there for a B&B for graduation too so well last time when we when this was before us before we were we're talking about density

the proffers and that we have more work to do on this application before we pass it.

So I find the protections for the historic house to be essentially unenforceable and I don't think that's appropriate for this particular structure.

You wanted to speak.

I think there's many objections in some language.

So I hope that helps.

So keep in mind that that could bounce again.

One $2 per square foot of the habitable residential floor area within the subject property.

I mean, call me crazy.

$2 per square foot of the habitable residential floor area within the subject property, period.

Can you clarify the language that you're so you're taking out to be constructed?

Yes.

Ms. Green, was that the issue that you were dealing with?

This doesn't stay with Charlie.

But he has suggested that he would be willing to submit a proffer that deletes.

Ms. Robertson.

But he can work on that and if he'd like we can also help him craft language to try and get it as clear as possible.

I don't want us to crap language that is suggestive.

He has made those representations, and if he would like to, he may change those proffers before they go to council.

So, I think the only remaining objection is the condition of the Manor House.

If we're clear on the residential nature of it, that's the sticking point.

If we're clear on this, I'd like to go through this grid, just to make sure.

We're helping him with his proffer if we go through the door.

That's what I'm going to tell you.

So yes, bed and breakfast, correct, I'm uncomfortable with.

We have many categories of bed and breakfast.

Is that what it means?

Elementary schools, high schools, colleges and universities and libraries.

The ticks on the paper are what I said earlier, yes.

I'm just saying those are my hang-ups.

It has to be

And they need to own the unit as well, right?

So it would have to be a condominium or a single family dwelling or a townhouse.

So they have to limit it a half year?

The only districts in which the rules are different than that are the places where transient occupancy is allowed and that's where hotels are allowed by right.

So I could reside in Europe half a year and here half a year.

Airbnb out to prospective students in the summer to make up the extra.

We're getting a little about down.

What do we need from Charlie to... We don't need anything from Charlie other than for him to listen to what you like and don't like about the application.

Do you want me to reiterate the oral proffer regarding the uses... Would you guys like that?

That would be a value for the rest of us.

Is that good?

It's not.

You would get a different answer from every architect in town about what that would mean.

I move to recommend approval to amend the 2013 comprehensive general land use map for the subject property from low density residential to high density residential.

Second.

Is there any further discussion about the amendment?

We're voting on the amendment.

Right now.

And the amendment to both.

I thought you meant amendment to the, and I was like, wait a second.

There's a amendment and it's rezoning.

Okay.

Mr. Stolzenberg, Mr. Stolzenberg, Mr. Stolzenberg, Mr. Stolzenberg, Mr. Stolzenberg, Mr. Stolzenberg, Mr. Stolzenberg, Mr. Stolzenberg, Mr. Stolzenberg, Mr. Stolzenberg, Mr. Stolzenberg, Mr. Stolzenberg, Mr. Stolzenberg, Mr. Stolzenberg,

Yes.

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Let's chat.

Let's chat.

We could work another six hours and make it even better.

I think it's pretty good right now.

And I don't think the original issues that passed this application before have changed a lot.

But before he does that, are there any other points?

I'm still not sold, but we'll see what happens when you call my name.

I believe that there was value in some public exposure to historic buildings like this.

I made a huge mistake.

Yeah.

Second.

OK, OK. Any further discussion?

Ms. Giese.

Mr. LaHindra?

No.

Mr. Solla-Yates?

Yes.

Mr. Heaton?

Yes.

Mr. Stolzenberg?

Yes.

Ms. Green?

Yes.

Is there any other business?

Just come to work sessions later in the month.

Move to adjourn.

Second.

We are adjourned.