Board of Architectural Review Meeting   6/15/2021

Well, it's 5.30 and I will start giving introductions on my end.

And then actually during this break, I remembered that this is the 13th virtual meeting that we've held.

It is one year ago, this month was our first one.

So thank you all for kind of sticking in there.

I mean, I guess we've all had to.

but also a big thanks to our communications staff.

Joe Rice has been with us every meeting, but this month we have Lachine, but they do a big help for us each month.

So anyway, just a nice reminisce.

And with that being said, good evening.

Welcome to the June, 2021 Charlottesville Board of Architectural Review virtual meeting.

We're now live on channel 10 and we're continuing to stream on the city's streaming channels.

My name is Robert Watkins.

I'm city staff, and I will be moderating tonight's meeting.

Before I hand things over to Carl Schwartz, our chair, I'm going to go over a few guidelines and housekeeping tips just to make sure that it runs smoothly for everybody who's joined.

So first, for everybody who might be watching at home, I'm going to introduce the meeting participants who are online right now.

First, we have Carl Schwartz, BAR chair.

We're also joined by Tim Moore,

Cheri Lewis, Jody LeHendro, James Zehmer, Robert Edwards, and Ron Bailey.

Members Andy McClure and Brett Gastinger aren't able to join us this evening.

We're also joined by Jeff Werner, my colleague and city staff.

And throughout the meeting, applicants and other participants will join the meeting as necessary.

For members of the public who are on the call right now, who are hoping to provide public comment

There are several places in the agenda where you can speak.

At the beginning of the meeting, we allow time for comments from the public for items not on the agenda.

Then, before the BAR deliberates on each individual application, we allow time for public comment as well.

In order to provide comment, we ask that you register for the meeting, if you haven't already, and you can do this through the city calendar, and then you'll become an attendee

And when we get to the comment portion of the agenda, you can raise your hand using the raise hand feature and I will unmute you.

Then the timer will begin and you'll have three minutes to speak.

For applicants who are currently online already, you are currently in the meeting as an attendee, which means that you have limited audio and video capabilities.

When your project comes up on the agenda for review,

I will promote you to panelist so you'll have mute and unmute capabilities and we can see you.

When I promote you from attendee to panelist, you'll be booted out of the meeting temporarily and then you'll automatically come back in as panelist.

Also for applicants during the staff and applicant presentations for each project, I will be sharing my screen to scan through pages of the application that you submitted for visual aid.

While the BAR deliberates, I'm happy to share my screen again to reference specific pages or drawings.

Just please give me a page number to go to and I will go there.

Also, like we've done for past meetings, we will have short periodic breaks as necessary, and our chair, Carl, will direct us when a break is necessary.

With that being said, I can pass things over to our chair, but please feel free to ask me any other questions as the meeting goes on.

All right.

Welcome, everyone, to this regular monthly meeting of the Charlottesville Board of Architectural Review.

Staff will introduce each item, followed by the applicant's presentation, which should not exceed 10 minutes.

I will then ask for questions from the public, followed by questions from the BAR.

After questions are closed, I'll ask for comments from the public.

For each application, members of the public are each allowed three minutes to ask questions and three minutes to offer comments.

Speakers shall identify themselves and provide their address.

Comments should be limited to our purview, that is regarding only the exterior aspects of a project.

Following the VAERS discussion and prior to taking action, the applicant will have up to three minutes to respond.

Thank you for participating.

So now we have matters from the public not on the agenda.

Yes, I know that, for instance, for 5 Gildersleeve, the applicant had raised their hand.

All right, so now we have the consent agenda, which includes minutes from February 17, 2021, 605 East Market Street, 5 Gildersleeve Wood, and

201 First Street North.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to pull 5 Gildersleeve Wood, please.

Okay, was that a second from Timmer, Jody?

Yes.

Okay, thank you.

I can call a vote then.

Mr. Bailey?

Aye.

Mr. Zehmer?

Aye.

Mr. Edwards?

Aye.

Mr. Schwartz.

Yes.

Mr. Lehendro.

Aye.

Ms.

And Mr. Moore.

Aye.

Thank you.

The consent agenda with the two items pooled passes unanimously.

So the first consent agenda item we'll go to will be 5 Gilbertson.

I think that comes first in the agenda.

Ah, there we go.

There we go.

So my screen was all, Robert, you were just a tiny square in the corner.

Find that.

So very quickly, just I'll introduce it.

We did discuss this a moment ago.

So this is a COA request for five gilder sleeve wood.

This is a house constructed circuit 1921 in the Oakhurst Gilder Sleeve ATC District.

It is a contributing structure.

The upper floor windows were replaced sometime in the 80s.

The applicants looking to install

New Sash that is more appropriate to the period and it offered a similar property over on Thompson Road, which has similar light arrangement.

We had recommended obviously for the consent agenda, but there was some questions about the alignment of the meeting rail and I think

The applicant was on the line, probably hurt most of that.

So I'll stop there and let Carl, you take it from here.

And if the applicant has anything to offer.

Ms.

Okay, I just need to unmute myself.

Yes, so

I really did try to figure out what is the most appropriate window.

I did contact the Historical Society to see if they could find an old photograph of the house with the original windows and they couldn't do that.

We bought the house in 2005 and at the time there was an old garage on the property, quite dilapidated, you know, the roof had fallen in.

Both my husband and I have a memory of there being some window sashes in that old garage that had been just sitting on the ground exposed to rain for a long time.

And when we

removed the garage.

Obviously we pulled all that stuff out and both our memories are that the window sash, the top and the bottom were even and that there were six lights on top.

So that's sort of where our head has been about what we would want to replace the windows that are in there now with.

Thank you.

I guess for formality's sake, are there any questions from the public?

Please raise your hand or press star nine.

Carl, I don't see any comments.

OK.

Questions from the air?

Again, Carl, no comments.

OK, so they're 9 or 8 over 1.

OK, good.

Okay, well, thanks for humoring me, everyone.

I guess you had comments.

Sure.

So Robert, I don't know if you can pull up, there's one image that says the rear southeast, there's like one sheet that has three photos.

There you go.

So I'm curious if that, and again, it's on the first floor, but there's a window in the image labeled rear southeast corner, I guess.

below the circled window on the right that has the six lights over one light.

Yes, that one.

OK.

Because I'm just, and it's tough to know whether they treated the second floor similar to the first.

I think you heard some of the discussion in the pre-meeting where I was going with this, which the example of the neighboring house on Thompson Street where

The meeting rails on the first floor were right in the middle of the window and therefore staying on the second floor.

In this case, you know, the rail is sort of two thirds of the way up on the first floor.

And I just, you know, it may be where we don't have any evidence to guide us one way or the other, but I just felt like it was worth maybe batting around as a quick discussion.

You know, like I said, I'm supportive of replacing the windows.

I'm not going to say no, but

Are you sure?

Yeah.

So my take on it is that

The larger pane of glass was a more expensive feature at that time.

And putting it on the pump sash on the first floor, the main floor, is entirely appropriate because it would show off the house and it would be a more expensive feature and provide uninterrupted light and views.

So for the second floor, I would expect it not to have the one of ones.

I would expect it to be a six over six or something more reasonable for the time.

You know, it'd been a divided stash and probably not.

You know, the reason the first floor is divided like it is

Smaller Upper Sash is just, again, to show off that full pane of glass and show how rich these people were, right?

The meeting rail doesn't block your view either, you know, when you're looking out the window.

Exactly.

For the second floor, I would expect a less expensive treatment.

What they're proposing is a six over one.

I think in kind of the spirit of the Thompson Road, go down a little bit, Robert, and the second picture's clearer.

So my main question was just really the position of the meeting rail.

Of the meeting rail?

I think that's probably a greater expense than they would do for the upstairs.

Okay.

That's my personal opinion.

So they're there, that's a four over one.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, they got a six over one on the second floor.

I'm sorry.

Yeah.

So 6 over 1, I'm good with that.

And I'm happy to do either.

Yeah, I just wanted to explore whether, again, it was really just a position at meeting rail.

And I'm happy and fine with approving this application as submitted.

But I appreciate your patience as we talk through it.

and it was really to see, yeah, you know, maybe if y'all did have, if some of those earlier sessions survived and if that, you know, provided some evidence, but if there's nothing that we have that can point us exactly to the right answer, then I'm happy to move.

So I need to read the spiel, Carl.

Thank you, Tim.

I'll call the vote.

Mr. Bailey?

Yes.

Mr. Zehmer?

Yes.

Mr. Edwards?

Aye.

Mr. Schwartz?

Yes.

Mr. Leandro?

Aye.

Ms.

Mr. Moore?

Aye.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So the next consent agenda item that was pulled is 201 First Street North.

Here's Tess.

Tess, did you hear?

Sorry.

She's joined.

I just wanted to, if she had heard what the discussion earlier, just quickly I'll introduce the project and then we can talk about it.

So this is a COA request for 201 First Street North.

This is the Hillwood Funeral Home there on the corner with Market Street.

The structure was constructed in 1937 originally as a funeral home, a Hill and Irving funeral home at that time.

It is in the downtown ADC district and it is a contributing property structure.

It's a late colonial revival with Georgian motifs and the applicant has requested there are two low bollards on that east entrance into the

Holm, and to replace those with taller pole-mounted fixtures.

Staff had recommended approval with conditions related to the lamping.

Earlier conversation, BAR asked about possibly selecting a fixture that has a shielded top relative to night lighting concerns.

So with that, Tess, you can

Carl?

Yeah, Ms.

I apologize.

And again, just for formality sake, are there any questions from the public?

Thank you.

So questions from the VAR.

I'll go ahead and start since this was my thing.

So I think with that, we were unable to find something that matched better than the ones with the glass top.

For as far as the, it's not really an acorn, but whatever that shape of the glass itself is.

The sconces, I guess they no longer make that specific one.

So we were trying to find something similar.

So with the,

glass top, that was pretty much just it matches the bell of the glass itself.

So we would like to put the pole lights in in general, because we have small walk lights that are up a little bit.

and they no longer work properly.

You can kind of move them around there.

We just wanted to upgrade the building's appearance itself and thought that that would just bring added light.

Comments from the public, please raise your hand or press star nine.

I don't see any raised hands, Carl.

Okay.

Comments from the board.

My concern was mostly with the dark sky ordinance.

And I think because it's a residential style fixture, it meets our zoning code.

But it's still

It's always preferable if we can have a shield on top, but if you're telling me that we can't, you can't find anything that was matching well.

I guess that's, I don't know.

Well, actually, I sort of do.

My inclination would be to say that I think it'd be better to use a

A modern pole light that's strictly got a downlight component is up reasonably high, so it just washes that immediate area, but not with really bright light.

But the point being that I think this light will actually compete with the lights that are in front of the building, that actually own the building, right, because it's sort of mimicking them.

Whereas if you do something that's a little more up in the trees and just, you know, basically

provides a very low level of area lighting, I think that'd be more effective than something that's just another object.

Seems like it competes with the lights that are already on the building, to my mind.

With the light itself, the pole, the light will be about eight feet off of the sidewalk.

So it'll be a little more than seven feet off of the step itself.

So it's not going to be the same level as the sconces on the side of the building.

Right.

Well, I guess the question I guess I would have as far as the lights low to the ground, are they not getting

I mean, they're not getting enough light to the steps going into the little podium there.

Well, those I believe were, they were installed probably in the 70s.

And so they aren't very bright.

I don't know that they even work.

And so since we were going to, we wanted to make that area more illuminated anyway, we just thought we would upgrade and take them off of

There is one light in the canopy, and then we have the two sconces on the front door, and then we have some of the lights on either side of the chapel doors, but there's nothing over the sidewalk.

So if people are coming by,

Got it.

And I don't mind continuing to look for a shield, but to match the base of that light, that was the only one that I was able to find

It was the correct size wise because you can find some from Lowe's, but they're the ones that hang outside of your back door, like the really tiny.

It's very hard to find anything that matches anything.

Right, right.

I mean, I don't know if there's that much of an uplight component.

I just don't know.

I mean.

Let's see, is there a cut sheet on this side?

Page 54 has, I think, the most of the technical information that comes with it.

Right.

So it's 360 watt bulbs.

Now, I mean, theoretically, you guys could insert a 60 watt LED in there and it would be, you know, look like the sun is sitting out in front of your building.

I don't think that's your intention.

I imagine you want this to be kind of gently lit.

Right.

And I mean, I totally understand the idea that I mean, this is kind of it's a decorative thing, too, for you guys.

I assume that it's you know, you're you're getting light, but you're also kind of upgrading the appearance of the fixtures.

So I don't want to step on your toes in that sense.

I mean, I think

Tim's right that, you know, for better light quality, you know, a modern downlight would work, but it doesn't sound like what you guys are aesthetically after.

We even reached out to, I think Ferguson, they did most of our lighting before, so.

Well, we have the two sconces, but then we have other pole lights that were affixed years and years ago along the back wall of our parking lot.

Do they match the sconce?

They do.

So here's a thought.

What about moving two of those

over to your front and then putting, you know, down, I'd have to see the ones in the parking lot.

They're a smaller fixture.

So those would be too small to put because they're kind of at eye level as they sit where the parking lot is.

Yeah.

I thought that too and was like, oh, we can shift some things around, but how, I don't,

Right, right.

I feel like I've opened Pandora's box.

I am going to make a motion actually just to approve this because I think it sounds like you've done your homework and it's you meet the zoning code.

So even though this was my problem with the up light, if I can find the motion.

Alright, having considered the standards set forth in the city code, including A.D.C.

district design guidelines, I move to find the proposed light fixture at 201 First Street North satisfies the B.A.R.S.

criteria and is compatible and are compatible with this property and other properties in the West Main Street A.D.C.

district.

The B.A.R.

approves the application as submitted with the condition that the selected lamping is dimmable, has a color temperature not to exceed 3000 Kelvin, and has a color rendering index of not less than 80, preferably not less than 90.

Oh, yes.

No, no, no.

I second the motion.

Ron.

Thank you, Ron.

I will call a vote.

Mr. Zehmer.

Aye.

Mr. Edwards.

Aye.

Mr. Schwartz.

Yes.

Mr. Lehendra.

Aye.

Ms.

Thank you.

The vote is unanimous.

Thank you.

Sorry about that.

Yeah.

Thank you, Ms.

Willits.

Thank you.

So the next item on the agenda is the mural for 1001 West Main Street.

I see Alan Gefenske has joined us, so I will promote him.

And then there might be other people, but I can figure out who to add in a moment.

Oh, maybe Laura Benner.

So, excuse me a second.

This is a COA request for 1001 West Main Street, formerly, I think, been the Pizza Hut.

The request is for a mural to be painted on the east side of the building, which is the side that's facing 10th Street.

This is a non-contributing structure in the West Main Street, ADC District,

originally constructed around 1920 with changes over time.

It is a remnant of West Maine's 20th century auto-centric history, which makes it kind of interesting.

There is, let's see, yeah.

So it had been a service station, and you all have reviewed several things at this.

for the, as related to the Starbucks, which is planning to come in here.

So you all have reviewed some alterations to the front storefront and various things.

I think the change in the parking lot canopy over the front door.

So, but all of those were, have been okayed.

And I just want to note that while some of those are shown on the information that was submitted, the only thing that you are reviewing is,

the request for the painted mural.

Staff, for the staff report, we recommended approval.

Yeah, sure.

I'd be happy to speak to this project a little bit.

My name is Alan.

I'm with the Charlottesville Mural Project.

I'm pleased that we get to join alongside in proposing this brilliant new mural on a non-primary cinderblock facade at this location.

This collaborative artwork, this original collaborative artwork by Hamilton Glass and Jay Johnson, we believe will transform an architecturally unremarkable wall by imbuing it with a sense of color and motion that enhances the existing character of the area.

The mural incorporates perspectives shared by the 10th and Page Neighborhood Association and other residents, chiefly among them

being the inclusion of a local artist and that artist's perspective in its creation.

The artwork itself is a striking and relevant complement to the existing visual landscape of public art in the immediate vicinity as well.

And the flow of the design is very deliberate in how it tactfully accounts for the windows and the architectural elements while

complementing both the energy of West Main Street and the warmth and vibrancy and the neighborliness the artists both seek to celebrate in the adjacent 10th and Page community.

In adherence with the BAR guidelines, the design is contained to portions of only one wall assuring it doesn't alter or distort the perceived geometry of the building.

and we at the Charlottesville Mural Project look forward to closely working with both of these esteemed artists to assure the successful creation of what we believe will be an iconic original work of art for our city going into the future.

The artists that are involved, Hamilton Glass and Jay Johnson.

Jay is an emerging muralist here in Charlottesville who we've worked with on numerous projects, including the Charlottesville Albemarle Technical Education Center, UVA Health, and a project with UVA Athletics.

He specializes in creating dynamic portraiture and figure drawing.

He's exhibited artwork in various galleries throughout town and has done artwork, community-based artwork with a lot of organizations and initiatives throughout Charlottesville.

and we are pleased to pair him with Hamilton Glass who is a very prolific and distinguished muralist in Central Virginia with a very robust history of collaboration with artists and organizations across the country including him here in Charlottesville as well with projects that have included collaboration with the Boys and Girls Club, the Wounded Warrior Project,

and several projects with the mural project in the past.

His career in art stems from his architectural and design background.

Despite working in the architecture field for seven years, his passion for public art pushed him to start.

all start out as a career artist.

Public art has always been a big inspiration of his because of its power to influence and inspire surrounding communities.

And with every project he's given to create, he strives to build in a message that connects the work to the community in which the artwork will live.

So pairing up Hamilton Glass with Jay Johnson in this project was a

something that both artists embraced very enthusiastically and something that's been a real joy to watch come together as Jay has sort of used his connection with the community and his deep knowledge in history growing up in the 10th and Page community

and his connections to his neighbors and his family who have lived in that community for generations to create what I personally think is a really beautiful and warm and exciting piece of artwork.

Yes, go ahead.

Thank you.

My name is Lara Bennett.

I lead the global art program for Starbucks.

And I've had the great privilege of personally kind of like working on this project directly.

And I just wanted to say thank you so much for introducing us to Alan and his organization.

And we've been so thrilled to be working with Jay and with Hamilton.

They're both so talented in such good spirits and

have worked really fast to get together what is, I think, just such a successful and joyful piece.

And, you know, President Schwartz, I heard that, like, I think I heard earlier that you were worried that we hadn't taken it to the community board.

We were like literally down to the hour to get this to you guys to get to review, but that will be our next step.

And we're just really hoping that we've done the right thing because we,

I don't know, like I'm really excited about this project.

And there are a lot of people attached to this.

There's a lot of attention going into this project, but we've run this all the way up.

And every, very senior executives are very excited about this.

I can't speak for the neighborhood, but I think you guys have, I mean, you picked Jay Johnson to be the artist or one of the artists that he's, you know, he lives two doors down from me.

Yeah, I think, I think

Yeah, I'll also say Jay is a personal friend of mine as well.

And he's someone who I've seen a lot of potential in for a long time.

And something that I always love to do is see a muralist or an artist expand their skills and have their toolkit expanded to take on bigger and broader projects.

Yeah, and it really aligns with the approach to artwork and why we do what we do at Starbucks.

Well, thank you, guys.

All right, now the formal part.

Are there any questions from the public?

Please raise your hand or press star nine.

I don't see questions from the board.

That's nodding heads.

So comments from the public.

Please raise your hand or press star nine.

I don't see any Carl.

Yeah, we're not really supposed to comment on content, but I mean, it certainly meets our guidelines as far as, you know, yeah, not obscuring the building.

I would entertain one.

Thank you.

I'll call the vote.

Mr. Bailey?

Yes.

Mr. Schwartz?

Yes.

Ms.

Mr. Lehendro?

Aye.

Mr. Zehmer?

Aye.

Mr. Edwards?

Aye.

The vote is unanimous.

So Alan, we've got a little underpass in 10th and Page under the railroad that seems to be screaming for a new mural.

If you want to help me get in contact with the railroad company, they're the most difficult people to work with.

But I won't rule it out.

Well, I think that's also right next to the public park too, or the 10th and Page Park that's opening.

Thank you guys.

Yeah, good.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

So the next application is 1511 University Avenue, Abigail Arnold.

Yeah, Carl, I think Alan has a map of every surface in the city that take paint.

I'm sure he knows what's out there.

Wish I could just say, hey, can you paint a mirror on my house that's just the same gray color entirely that it's all in now?

All right, let me find the next page.

All right, excuse me, this is a COA request for 1511 University Avenue, otherwise known as the former College Inn in the corner.

It is in the corner of ADC District, and it is a contributing structure.

It was constructed in 1930 as a men's clothing store, a single-story brick building.

It has an Art Deco storefront, which has been modified over time, but portions of it still remain and they're subtle.

Primarily, you've got the sunburst tracery window on the west side, which we've discussed earlier, we'll be talking about.

There's inset brick bands, there's a black glass corner blocks, and the inset brick panels at the corner piers.

This has only come to the BAR one other time back 2015 when the current, excuse me, storefront that you see was installed.

Excuse me.

The applicants requested COA for alterations to the exterior elevations.

I say that all four sides, front, back, rear.

This will include new signage, new furnishings and railings at the outdoor cafe area.

And also why, when I mentioned signage, I did check with zoning and as you know, all signage requires a separate signage permit.

So even though you may, the BAR may approve a design, that's not an approval of a sign permit.

So, but the, what's been proposed does fit within the signing regs.

Then,

the applicant provided a narrative which is in the staff report.

And there's a couple of things that, you know, we, as I mentioned, staff recommends approval.

However, a few questions we suggest the BA are discussed further.

One being the storefront, the applicant has indicated the light will have a BLT of not less than 70%, but I also let them know that we have had some

We understand that particularly for a south-facing facade, there may be some adjustment that can be made.

And if they had a question on that, to bring it up tonight, otherwise, to state that they'll follow that, I don't want them to have to come back later.

So if they've got some thoughts there, you can discuss it.

The windows, there's four small high windows along the west facade.

The idea is to reglaze those.

They're single light.

There's some question about what type of glass wants something that's possibly a dark or a gray.

And I think the applicant can address that.

The Art Deco window again, signage I talked about.

Patio furniture, everything's fine relative to the conditions or as relative to the guidelines.

The only thing I've added is a recommendation

of a condition that any umbrellas be a uniform color and that no signage or logos are allowed on the umbrellas.

Masonry, there's some notes there about the applicant has added that the brick will be cleaned, which is fine.

Just wanna make that clear that no abrasive chemicals or high pressure washing is used.

And also that

prior to, you know, after they clean it, that the wall should be properly pointed up and repaired before anything additional is done to it.

They had mentioned a use of a waterproofing to seal the bricks.

We've guidelines recommend against that.

So I asked the applicant if they had something they wanted to use to have a specification that they could bring forward.

Also, there's a note on in the drawings

about the brick also being painted.

So there's a conflicting note there.

So I think make sure we resolve that.

And then,

The last, I'm sorry, then there's some masonry infill there at the back.

This is at the far rear of that western wall.

And I, this is where I think they had suggested painting simply because to make sure maybe the brick didn't match or course out.

And I had suggested that they not worry about trying to match the brick, I mean,

Obviously, you don't want something that's blue or green, but that they could set the new brick inset into the wall so everyone knows that it's added and then maybe that emits the need to paint it, to hide it.

Again,

We're not trying to make it look like it's always been there.

We understand that the walls changed and the openings changed.

So it doesn't have to be hidden or concealed.

The lighting, I did ask for lighting cut sheets on the sign lighting on the front of the store in the absence of that standard recommendation relative to lamping.

And then

noted about the mechanical equipment.

And then the last condition, of course, there were one, two, three, four, five of them, but the one is just the removal of, there's a lot of wires and stuff that's telephone services, conduits that are no longer in use or functioning, or if they are no longer in use or functioning, if they are recommended, they be removed.

I'll just caveat by saying, I know sometimes there are some traces of,

Early electrical service and I'm kind of nostalgic about some of those things.

There's a big ceramic insulator on the side of the building, maybe that stays.

But I think when I see a building that has lots of cable and

TV cable and old phone wires that those can be removed.

So I just want to caveat that if there are and I think you'll see it in the photographs, there are some elements that maybe you all would see prefer to see retained.

With that, again, staff's recommended approval with the clarifications and conditions that I've outlined.

And with that, I'll pass it off.

Is Abby on the line or is she?

There you go.

Nice to meet you.

I mean, you know, you covered it.

I'm working with Chipotle to take over the space.

We're going to occupy it, renovate it, make it look clean again.

You know, embrace the history in the area.

Embrace those, preserve that window, that art deco window is real important.

And just respect all that that's going on already.

But then at the same time, try to give a little bit of an update so we get our branding in there.

And so just add a little liveliness to that, especially with the neighboring tenant that's already modernized right next to us a little bit.

Yeah, the storefront is the big one and respecting the same path the old storefront was.

And then preparing the art deco, we talked about that one.

On the signage band, we're looking to maybe swap the colors a little bit, but I do like a metal back with the pattern.

like the wood pattern is and then white letters can make everything pop.

It already has the white trim around everything so that will match too.

And then of course the blade sign that's there historically will do ours there.

I think that covers it.

OK, are there any questions from the public?

I don't see any raised hands.

All right, questions from the board.

The area that you were proposing to paint

It looks like the building steps a couple times along that alleyway.

Yes, so the paint we are looking at would be where, well, one, if you are not interested in us painting brick, we're good with that, but we're looking at the final step back of the brick.

That's what we discussed in this.

And then after that, the CMU beyond.

but we'd be open to not painting that brick and getting the best match we can.

You can probably see it in the page four or page one.

So page one, there's like where the white boxes are on the left side.

Yeah, so that's where we're gonna infill all that but we'll try to match what the brick is there and the mortar

to make it look as matchy as possible.

There's still some, you can already kind of see some remnants of infill previously.

I think we can do a pretty good job without having to paint.

And the alley wall where you've got all the green algae and whatnot.

Have you guys looked at

Well, we thought about that, but then that alley is so narrow, any truck that's going down, and you can kind of see that they've already been hit more than once.

Yeah, you can see, I don't know if I have a good picture of them.

You can see that they've been chipped off.

Something happened.

OK.

I had an idea.

Yeah.

I mean, it's almost like it just needs a better drip on the end because the water, when it was coming out, just instantly

tucked back against the wall.

It could be maybe a low profile tongue or something like cow's tongue.

I have not looked into that.

So Abigail, Jeff had a couple of issues or a few things that he mentioned in his report.

I'm wondering what your response is to things like waterproofing the brick, what the waterproofing material is, and the fact that it shouldn't be a waterproofing material.

Yeah, I hadn't planned the detail for that yet, but definitely fine to not waterproof it.

And that makes sense.

Waterproofing ends up inside curing water that invariably gets into a wall behind the waterproofing and then starts to spall the brick.

Yeah, totally.

That's permeable, breathable.

That doesn't allow water in, but it's breathable.

OK.

OK.

Yeah, I can.

That makes sense.

And we're very open to that.

The Art Deco window, that is a focus of ours because it's one of the few really nice things that have been left behind that have a nice or that's a decorative feature, an important feature.

The assessment that it needs to be replaced, who made that assessment?

And is there, we would want to be really sure that it has to be replaced before we would agree to replace it.

So is that still

Yeah, absolutely.

I think my just my gut judgment was that it would be removed.

I didn't really

Excellent.

There are people, there are craftsmen in the area that work on metal and have done restoration work, so it's harder.

It's not as straightforward or as easy to understand as carpentry, but they are available.

Oh, thank you.

Let's do some testing on it and see if we can keep it.

So that would be probably a condition of ours that we try to preserve and restore that Art Deco window rather than replace.

I forget somebody, we already talked about painting the brick and I think that was discussed and resolved.

No, I don't think so.

Yeah, I've got one.

I do have a question.

On the rear portion of the building, alley side, where those infill panels are, it looks like those have like a concrete sill maybe, and then it's plywood.

Were those originally windows?

Do you have a sense?

I, when you're there, it looks,

like nothing like a JIP plywood.

Like they have issues with leakage already in that area.

Okay.

Okay.

All right.

Well, we can always ask more questions.

Are there any comments from the public, please?

Yeah, this is from Melissa Sergan-Smith.

I know that she emailed the board about 905 Reppie Road, but I will go ahead and allow her to talk.

Yeah, Melissa was, and she just emailed me, she's having difficulty getting connected relative to 901 Ruggie Road, but Melissa, I'm sending you a quick note, but I don't know, Robert, when you get to 905, you can figure out,

from your Command and Control Center there.

OK.

So Ms.

Thank you.

Ooh.

I don't want her image to come up.

God knows where she is.

Yeah.

Just quickly, also, I did put a note in there.

I thought I had.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

You know, I was curious, too, about that front signage board, what it might cover.

So I had just made a note that, you know, and simply for curatorial purposes, if if when that's open, Abby, we can.

I don't know, I'll send Jody over with it.

Coordinate that it gets recorded in your documentation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I know there's probably going to be a lot of Wahoo alum out there chained to the College Inn when all this starts to go down.

So then I think a few of them may be on this Zoom meeting.

So maybe they don't get taken care of for us.

So that's all.

Are there any other comments from the public?

Please raise your hand and press star nine.

Don't see any.

So all right.

Yes, I guess we've, Jody's kind of already covered the Art Deco window.

I think just echo his support of that in terms of preservation approaches as a first step.

And then I did want to talk a little bit about the infill on that rear portion of the building on the alley side.

So I was actually a project manager for the building directly across the alley.

The university manages now.

And in doing so, we did a lot of research on the history of these buildings in this area.

And there were like a number of different businesses that were actually just accessed

directly onto the alley.

They didn't have a storefront on University Avenue.

And so I do think it's important, especially if that is a true concrete sill below the plywood.

I think it's important to preserve that.

I think it'd probably be OK to infill that with brick or block or something.

And then maybe instead of painting all of that wall, just paint the infill.

That's interesting.

Or at least not.

I mean, I think Jeff had mentioned you could recess the brick or you could not tooth in the brick, but make it evident that there was

Yeah.

Because we, you know, as y'all have heard me say, it is in our guidelines not to paint unpainted masonry, but if it's new masonry infill, I think you could argue that you could paint that to set it apart from the original building fabric.

And then again, just making sure we

Okay.

Right.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Thank you.

I wouldn't be opposed.

I think the rear elevation facing the parking lot is painted.

So obviously, for maintenance purposes, if that wants to get painted, I wouldn't object to that.

I'll share them right now, and then I'll forward the email to Abigail.

And Jeff, I don't know if you looked at Sanborn Maps, but when we were doing the building across the alley, using Sanborn Maps actually helped us learn what businesses were in, you know, in the basement at 1515 and things like that.

Yeah, it's so curious because the back end is definitely separate and, you know, just from the structure of it and everything.

Thanks.

Surprised that that little wood shed is there in that picture.

The parking attendant video?

How do we get that shed as a contributing structure to the Corner Historic District?

I guess, since we open the door on that, Abigail, that the owner, Terry Vassalos, owns the parking lot back there.

So is that shed part of the application?

Not ours to touch as far as Chipotle, my client, was concerned.

So that would be Terry.

something we'd have to discuss with him or he forgot to us.

But I do think that would be interesting.

And sort of along the same nostalgic discussion, I'll bet you could auction off the collagen sign as soon as you take it down.

Put it on Twitter for noon someday, and the alums will come flying quiet.

All right, good to know.

That's right.

When you and I talked earlier about finding some drawings, when you spoke with the architect that worked on it previously, have you come across any original drawings of the building?

I just had what I got from you and there, it wasn't much.

Did you, so the little windows that you're putting spandrel glass in, is that just going to be black glass?

So we've discussed a couple, like one,

Well, on the Art Deco window, is that all gray glass for sure?

Or black?

Is that something you guys, I know it's spandrel.

I know in history, it's been opaque.

I'm not sure.

I mean, you've got the, what is it?

Those, um,

You call them glass block.

The Carrara glass block.

It's in your little history.

Right.

Yeah.

So those are spandrel, too.

It's like structural glass before spandrel.

That was the.

So nonetheless, what we put down on the floor would be could be gray or black.

We kind of discussed what if we did something fun, but they're so small and if we're not doing much else there, I don't know if we do like a color or something.

But definitely, it needs to be opaque.

I think we've touched on everything.

So we need to find Jeff's motion so I can make sure we did.

All right, so Jeff has the removal of any unused exterior wires, lapping of the lighting, need to see light fixture cut sheets submitted to staff, that the umbrellas will be a uniform color without signage, and then photographing existing conditions.

Jeff, you didn't put a lot in there.

I thought you had the, so the masonry, I guess we need to know what

product you intend to use if you want to seal it, or if you can find a solution that keeps the water off that might be better.

Sounds like we would prefer you didn't paint that back portion, but if you wanted to recess or paint the infill of those openings, that would be appropriate.

and painting the cinder block.

Yeah.

Did I miss anything?

Do you want to make a motion on your own project?

Probably not.

Okay.

You guys want me to do this or someone want to jump in?

Okay, so having

Considered the standards set forth within the city code, including ADC district design guidelines, I move to find the proposed alterations at 1511 University Avenue, satisfy the BAR's criteria, and are compatible with this property and other properties in the corner ADC districts.

And the BAR approves the application, noting that the signage will require a separate sign permit and with the following modifications.

We want to remove the starburst window from the application so you can study that further to see if it can be repaired.

We request that you remove all unused exterior wires, conduits, service boxes, pipes, etc.

that are no longer functioning.

Lamping for exterior lighting will be dimmable, have a color temperature not to exceed 3000 K, and have a color rendering index.

Not lower than 80, preferably not lower than 90.

That you will submit light fixture cut sheets to staff for the BAR record and confirmation that they meet those requirements.

That the umbrellas at the cafe space will be a uniform color and without signage or logos.

When the front signboard is removed, the existing condition will be photographed and submitted to staff.

The

Infill of the windows should be recessed and you have the option of painting that.

And preserving the concrete seals at the infill on the alley side.

Yes.

Second.

Thank you.

I will call a vote.

Mr. Bailey.

Yes.

Mr. Zehmer.

Aye.

Mr. Schwartz.

Yes.

Ms.

Yes.

and Mr. Edwards.

Thank you, the photo's unanimous.

Here we go.

This is a COA request for 905 Rugby Road.

This is within the Rugby Road Historic Conservation District.

There is an existing

1951 structure on the site.

It is non-contributing and will be raised.

And to be clear, the BAR does not have purview over demolition of a non-contributing structure.

The request is construction of a two-story residence on the site, including a landscaping plan, which, and I sent some clarification out to you earlier,

on the species and some of the existing conditions that are there.

As I mentioned earlier in the meeting, this is a difficult district to say what's typical, but there are characteristics that are important relative to new designs.

And in my review of this, my recommendation is that

that it be approved.

And I also just to caveat that, and I'm gonna read this, the regulations and guidelines for projects within a historic conservation district are designed by design less rigid than those for an ADC district or wouldn't that be a property in an ADC district or for an individually protected property.

Historic Conservation District designations are intended to preserve the character defining elements of the neighborhoods and to assure that new construction is not inappropriate to that character while minimally imposing on current residents who may want to build or upgrade their own homes.

With the existing

Historic Conservation District within the existing HCD are buildings and or areas that might easily qualify for an EDC district or as an IPP.

However, in evaluating proposals within these districts, the BAR may apply only the requirements and design guidelines for the Historic Conservation Districts, so.

Give me for that formality there, but just to make that clear that this is a different level of review than that would be for something that's on West Main Street or Park Street.

I won't get into all the details in the staff report here.

I've addressed the materials.

The design is evident.

Another thing is that you are reviewing what is visible from the front.

So as far as what's going on in the rear of the house, while it's included in the application, it's not under the VAR's purview.

I did receive some questions from

Ms.

Smith, who has called in and she's unable to, I can address those.

Most of her questions were about the new schedule and accommodations during construction.

And I put her in contact with Derek and they can have that conversation aside from the BAR.

There were some questions about the plants along that shared driveway and about drainage and

If I had, I thought I think I'd sent it all out to you, but I can, but if not, we can address them and you can bring them up with Derek.

However, you know, if you wish to discuss.

All right.

As of now, I don't think so.

I might ask you to as we go.

But yeah, I mean, I think the plan was fairly thorough.

And I was the lead designer in conjunction with Water Street Studios, which

Hopefully everybody is familiar with.

And they I mean, the main directive was trying to make something that looked a lot better than what is there currently.

It's in a pretty bad state of disrepair.

And she's looking to drastically improve the property.

And with that, you know, a pretty comprehensive landscape plan that really improves on

What's there?

We love the stone wall in the front.

Would like to keep that element and really build on that element throughout the projects.

And the, I know there was concern raised with tree removal.

And if you look at the existing conditions, which I just sent over, I want to apologize about that.

I had a PDF issue.

I thought that all of that stuff was in the PDF we sent.

and coming to find out it was only one page.

But I did send that to Jeff a couple hours ago.

Hopefully he was able to distribute that.

But within the existing conditions, you can see there's two large trees that were the main contention.

One directly on the eastern border of the property.

on 905's property, but the root system certainly goes across.

It's an ash tree.

And we don't believe we can work around that tree or the other large tree, which is a polonia on the west side of the house, because for a couple of reasons, one, any kind of construction we think it's gonna

because of the location of the tree is gonna negatively impact and most likely kill the tree.

And it's just not in a good spot to build around at all to be able to really do anything else with the property.

And then the tree on the other side is actually hanging over the roof of the existing structure, which the footprint of the new structure is very similar, but any kind of construction around that tree as well is gonna create an issue.

We are saving the three dogwood trees along the southwest corner of the property, which is on the roadside.

We'll fence those off for construction to keep those in good shape.

But pretty much all the other vegetation on the property would need to be removed to regrade and replant everything that we would like to put back.

So that's pretty much what I got.

Thank you.

Are there any questions from the public?

I know that Mr. Gensmith had comments before I can

to promote her or Jeff can convey the comments that she shared.

She's not raising her hand right now though.

Okay.

Questions from the board.

I have a question.

Are there any, it looks like on the landscape plan that all of the trees on the site will be small flowering trees.

Yes, I believe that is Dave.

And yeah, as I said, we've worked with Water Street Studios.

OK.

OK.

Just probably a couple hours ago.

Yeah, I didn't realize.

I looked at the comments that Ms.

I don't know why.

Well, we'll let everyone else move on, and I'll make sure I think I open that, if I can find it.

Are there comments from the public?

Again, I'm not seeing any raised hands.

Yeah.

I have it.

And Mr. Schwartz, I just sent it to you quickly.

So there were several questions.

I did respond to Ms.

Smith.

And so the first question was about the target date for the project.

Again, that's a question for the applicant.

Derek can address that.

He asked about removal of trees along the property line and how and when it would be done, et cetera.

And that again, goes to Derek.

They asked about the removal of the existing bamboo grove in the rear, how it would be done, et cetera.

Again, question four.

Derek, I don't know how you remove bamboo.

The, I do know if you put it on Craigslist, people will flock over to get rid of it for you.

The question, what plan is to replace the existing trees and bamboo and provide a privacy screen?

And that's what is in that, the clarification and the landscape plan.

And what that, what I sent out earlier simply is where Marsh Street Studio identified the,

what types of plants.

So the plan hasn't changed.

It's just as the, what are the, what is the evergreen?

What is the tree?

Similar question about what plant is specified for the property line between the driveways concern being that to ensure that the normal growth that it won't overgrow into the driveways.

The planning lists are identified, but I might,

That's probably something for the neighbors to resolve.

If a tree or a shrub is growing too large, they need to address that.

They asked what changes were made to the grade to accommodate new drive, level out the rear, et cetera, for the parking of cars.

I'm looking at what Derek had sent.

actually earlier, not today, and looking at the topography from the city's maps.

And so not a whole lot of change there, but I think relative to drainage into the neighbor's yard, obviously any sort of underground or erosion and sediment control will come with a building permit.

There is a question about underground springs.

I know we have them all over Charlottesville, but I don't know how to address that.

And then the last question,

She said about accessibility to their property for any work.

Again, that's a question for Derek.

So those were the questions that Melissa had, and I hope I've addressed them.

But if you all see in any of those something that you wanna address, speaking of the BAR, that's up to you all.

All right.

So,

I guess she's left her contact information.

And Jeff, you forwarded that to Derek.

I'll certainly be reaching out about all that stuff.

I'd love to meet onsite actually and just go over the whole process.

All right.

Well, comments from the board.

Okay.

So as Jeff said, our guidelines are very

They're much more lax when it comes to historic conservation districts.

We do have, you know, there are a couple guidelines in there that are, I think, apply to this.

One being front entrances.

Let me see if I can find this.

sorry looking at too many things but the uh so building openings a single entrance store main entrance um facing the street is recommended um and i think the way that i read your design i think it's a very nice design but it's um i was confused as to what is the front or the back and it appears that the front is kind of like uh back um in a sense um i mean it

You know, where I grew up in northern Indiana, there was a big river and everybody's houses had a, you have a riverfront and you have a, you know, a driveway front and you've kind of put like a riverfront on, on Rugby Road, if that makes any sense at all.

Like it's, it's more of a, it feels like a backyard.

And I don't know if anyone else shares that concern.

The other, you know, we,

The Martha Jefferson neighborhood asked for large trees in their neighborhood.

Rugby didn't ask for much at all.

I think there's three requirements.

They want one and a half, two or two and a half story dwellings.

They do mention front porticos or porches.

They mentioned slate shingle roofs, gable or hip roof forms, roof dormers.

and contributing out buildings and deep set planted front yards, mostly unpaved with no visible garages.

So you have no visible garage.

And I guess so

One request I would make, and I can only make this as a request, I kind of would beg and plead with you, actually.

There's no power lines on your side of the street.

It would be fantastic if the owners could put in some street trees, as opposed to having everything be small flowering trees.

Yeah, that, certainly.

So street trees as in,

Yeah, exactly.

The root systems could be a big problem, but certainly we would be happy to do that.

We have a little bit, but if your comment about not more mature hardwoods and everything is also noted,

And Derek, I think that's a great idea, Carl.

I would throw in that just tell Water Street that to you to check the city's recommended tree guidelines.

So I don't know if anyone else feels any issue with the front door, front porch thing.

I mean, I think the front door thinking of guidelines is to make it cool, is to, it's basically an anti-duplex approach.

I think that's the whole reason for it.

It wants everything to look like R1.

This is just idiosyncratic and it'll be interesting to see how they eventually address

Which damn door are we supposed to go in?

It'll just be interesting to see how they use it actually And to your point about some street trees that may help soften that

To me it's more an issue of really making it

making that parking area go away.

Because I think philosophically in the older neighborhoods, we object to, or at least I object to how zoning works anyway in terms of new construction and off street parking.

In the end of the cut, it's as wide as what you just replaced.

So I have a little problem with it philosophically having the parking in the front of the house.

But I think the street street would go a long way towards alleviating that concern.

And as far as this might,

It's idiosyncratic, but you know it's also an individual's house.

I will note that the back also has multiple doors.

Yeah, certainly the trees on the front to soften the whole thing.

We definitely will.

I'll get with Eugene over at Water Street and we'll work that out, but I'm sure she would be the owner.

Happy to do that.

The house is pretty gentle, generally speaking.

Yeah, with all due respect to our esteemed chair, I don't have a problem with the two front doors.

In fact, the property that staff has pointed to, 700 Rugby, has two front doors, if you look at it.

It's the one that's compared to this with a significant roof line.

the closest that we can get to that.

I've never been able to figure out what the front of that house is every time I go by them.

So I don't think that in itself, certainly in a historic conservation district, is fatal.

And I think that the Rugby historic neighborhood is represented by a wide variety of architectural

I don't think that it's just Georgian at all through this neighborhood.

And certainly once you get off rugby even more, I think you get even more diversity and cottage-like and vernacular and things that, you know, with some age maybe on this house that will look like it was of a certain era when a lot of those really grand and sort of quirky homes were built.

It's an architect.

I'm sorry.

I always forget his name.

The owner actually came to us with

A pretty firm design in mind, and it was included in that, and it's an architect named Edward.

I'm blanking on his name right now, but he does a lot of that same design, or he did in a turn of the century cottagey feel in a small

Well, I like it.

I like the diversity that it continues to bring to rugby, and it certainly fits me that way.

I was just curious.

I don't remember anything else in the neighborhood with that.

He didn't build small houses, but I think legends sometimes did that, certainly.

Any number of English architects played that game.

I think it mimics thatch to a certain extent, or sort of that softness of thatch.

Did Tim identify the architect?

I believe that's correct, actually.

He was a turn of the century.

But I thought Tim would be familiar with them because there's a lot of projects in Maine.

It's sort of an arts and crafts background.

That all ties back to a lot of the English residential architecture from the turn of the century.

Yeah, that's very much what she was looking for.

Yes, certainly.

Yeah, we're excited about this one.

There were questions about lighting, Jeff and I talked about, and we put notes on our plan

was very clear, you know, 90 CRI, 2,700K down lighting, nothing pointing vertically.

Yes, a lot.

That's the other part of that, you know, turn of the century cottagey feel, which is, you know, they certainly don't,

that put out enough light, but not so much that it inhibits any kind of skyline.

Okay.

What?

Would someone like to make a motion?

Do you?

Okay.

Let me back up.

Okay.

Having completed the standards head forth within the city code, including city design guidelines for historic conservation districts,

I move to find the proposed residents and landscaping on 905 Ruby Road to satisfy the BAR's criteria and our compatible list of property and other properties in the Ruby Road Historic Conservation District.

And the BAR approves the application with the following re-viso and that re-viso is that street trees are introduced along Ruby Road so that it reinforces the

Sense of the Road, and its presidential nature.

Thank you, Mr. Bailey.

And Mr. Moore, I'll call a vote.

Mr. Schwartz?

Yes.

Mr. Zehmer?

Aye.

Mr. LeHendro?

Aye.

Ms.

And Mr. Edwards.

Aye.

Thank you.

The vote is unanimous.

Thank you, Derek.

Good luck.

Thank you.

So, yeah, thank you.

That was, I will say, even looking at that and trying to fit it with the district was

I don't know, I had asked Robert if he thought I was, my report made any sense.

He didn't respond, so I assumed it must have in some way.

But yeah, that was a tricky one.

Just, you know, really kind of an interesting look.

But then, you know, there's just, there's like, the only thing I could find that was sort of similar was that one down the street.

I'll be very honest with you, I thought you guys were going to kind of beat me up on that one, so grateful to you.

Quickly, I don't know, as I had mentioned, the applicant for 854 Locust is working on some updates.

They have not asked us any questions, so that's been withdrawn from the agenda.

I don't believe you have to approve a deferral for that.

They sent me a note earlier.

And the, what else?

Robert, find my right screen.

Was that one controversial or was there, they just, did they explain what, okay.

Honestly, there was one two years ago up the street a little bit set back from the road and the conservation districts allow for small additions and small structures.

I could even just confer with you and make a decision.

I just was curious.

That house used to have a railroad track around it, like a model train track.

I don't know what the gauge was.

The guy was totally into trains.

That's a model train.

little maintenance cart for trolley and hand cart and stuff like that but then he also had this model trains that there was like you could sit on you know like see it as zoom or something interesting um so i don't have any um nothing coming up i will i will tell you the in july the quartz complex being constructed there at the the levy building they are um

It will be coming forward with some conceptual preliminary design.

It'll be coming in as a sort of like we've done with the 612 West Main although we haven't heard from them in some while.

It will be an application and then with that understanding that we're working through the process with that discussion about deferrals at the end of each.

I have a meeting with them next,

Wednesday, I believe, just to kind of go over what they'll be sharing.

So they should be able to get that out to you well ahead of the meeting, obviously.

And so if we've got any comments, you can review that.

You know, I have always had the node on here about the update, the ADC district design guidelines.

You know, it's worth saying, too, that the the Historic Conservation District guidelines certainly could be part of that as well and will pile on.

But I know

I will tell you, Robert's been doing, he's been wearing a lot of hats in the office, but we've, I think, hired at least one of the positions that he's been recruited into.

I want to ask, actually, I was putting together the packet for this month.

And I was going to put links in to the specific pages.

But then as I was putting it together, it just slipped my mind.

So I apologize about that.

Is that something that you'd like in a future month?

Would you like hyperlinks to the Design Guideline web page?

The meetings, I'm sorry, I'm sitting here, I knew there was something.

So City Hall, I will be back, Robert and I will be back in the office the week after Labor Day, so City Hall will be reopening.

It could be going in now, I guess, but then I would have a mess here and a mess there.

So I just prefer having my mess in one place.

But that's the goal for getting us back into city hall.

Now, I don't know if they tell us that we're back and then have to wear masks all day.

I guess we can evaluate that.

As far as in-person meetings, I received an email

from, and Patrick, you're here.

If Patrick, Corey can unmute if you can, if I need to clarify anything.

But they're looking at, they sort of looked at four things.

One is continue with Zoom, one is go completely in person, and then with some hybrids in between.

I didn't quite understand if they were asking for what we thought or if they were sharing what

what they're thinking about.

But it seems one of the options is to have those who wish to have in-person meeting.

We would meet at City Hall.

Those that didn't could call in on Zoom.

And then all of the public would attend via an online call.

So members of the BAR could meet in one room, if we wish, with staff, as many, and

That's one option.

And Patrick, I didn't quite understand the other hybrid beyond that.

Yeah, I'm here.

So my understanding was, that was from Brian Wheeler, who's the director of communications.

And obviously they're looking to transition back into in-person meeting.

He's trying to get ahead of the curve in terms of when we do get back to in-person meetings.

I do know, I believe that part of that transition will be a hybrid meeting where you will have members of the public calling in and also members in person in city hall chambers.

And so the idea is to alternate back and forth between those people who would like to speak in the public or members of the public who would like to speak in person and those who would like to speak on the Zoom call.

I just said Brian is,

As I said, Brian, we're still trying to work out the kinks and how we're going to transition from where we are right now, which is a Zoom webinar, to hybrid, to eventually all the way back in person.

The funny thing is I think it's more transparent and I don't have to hop on a plane and fly down there to see someone else.

I know you guys do miss me ordering the dinner for you guys.

There's dinner?

I've never had dinner with us.

So dinner has been an interesting evolution.

When I started, we did not get dinner.

And Bob Fenwick used to attend our meetings and he felt bad for us.

So he got us, at some point got us dinner and the city was great.

They bought us, you know, we had collagen pizza or we'd have, um,

you know, sticks or we'd have some good stuff.

Eventually dinner became sandwiches.

And it just kind of yet now we're, there's no dinner, but.

Oh, at the end of the year, do you think it'll be safe?

Are we going to go to CNO?

I hope so.

And I jest, but I mean that seriously, is that that was, you all provide a service to the city as volunteers, and that is something that we can offer you, and I think it's important that we do.

So yeah, and I guess anybody that was on the, maybe we gotta get Sonia, oh, her one, but it's a, yeah, I think it's, what I've been trying to say is,

You know, I have, for example, Missy Creasy and I talked about this and she said, you know, when it's over, when this thing's over, tell us it's over and then but this sort of like, okay, what exactly is going on?

are we transmitting this thing or do we not, what is going on?

And I think there's, as I said in the last meeting, a lot of folks still have kids at home and kind of like, so I've just sort of suspended speculation and said, when they tell me it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen.

Someone on the Historic Resource Committee was upset that this is what we have to do.

So I guess I would just say, unless we have a response to sort of,

a recommendation back to what Brian offered.

And I'm just waiting for them to tell me we're back.

I think this works.

I think this functions.

I do know that it's intensive on at least the staff time and coordination time within the city.

This is very different from the regular meetings.

So I think as soon as we can get back and meet in person, we will look to.

The idea that someone can in the public can call in and speak to you all I think is a great tool.

So the great, the advantage I find with meeting like this, especially for us being the Architectural Review Board, is being able to see the visuals.

and that is the worst setup possible in- Yes, it's behind us.

Yes.

I think there's interest in moving these meetings out of council chambers.

I would love that there's, when you walk it back into City Hall, you'll see there's a lot of technology been installed in places, particularly the NDS conference.

I mean, it looks like a sports bar in there with the TV set in there.

So I know maybe one of the meetings we can have is the Super Bowl in there, if somebody hasn't signed it up.

But I think the idea being we would be in a room where we can be more collaborative across the table and have those visuals accessible.

I think a little less formality would be good.

Because I've gone to, you know, like when you go down to DHR to talk with them about a new project, you basically you sit down at a table with a planner and you go through stuff and it's a lot more, there's a lot more give and take and some understanding of, you know, we're not, they're not there to obstruct, they're there to

basically help you interpret the rules, which are always arcane and hard to figure out.

Just like zoning, I mean, you know, I've been an architect for almost 30 years now, and every time I go to a new town and try to interpret their zoning, it's an adventure.

You know, it's just not, it's just not, it's just not very clear frequently.

We'll remember our first Zoom meeting almost a year ago.

We had four items and it took us almost four and a half hours.

So I think we've come a long, long way.

I think this medium, it benefits particularly just having Abby calling in from Ohio.

I think there are parts of this that we will continue to take advantage of and I hope we do.

But I'm a people person and I miss being in the room

having a conversation.

And I know, you know, all of us communicate differently.

Yeah, this is so, you know, I think- Jeff, you can't blame yourself with a post-it note if you're in council chambers.

That's right, I try to do this when I'm at council meetings, but they, all right, so, and then I have nothing other than, I know, Carl, you brought up some things about the comp plan.

If you all had any questions about that,

We can talk about it quickly.

And I just, James, I just want to tell you, I know last meeting he mentioned an interesting site over near Jackson Viya.

And I went over there and there's something interesting going on on the side of the school.

So who knows?

James and I might be two for two on unknown family cemeteries.

I was in Cobb Hall earlier today and stepped into a classroom.

There's like this shelf with just jars with brains in from out of the hide.

Next Tuesday night, I know I sent you the link, but I can put it out there.

The Jefferson Madison Regional Library has invited myself, Ben Ford, and Tom Chapman with the Albemarle Charlottesville Historical Society.

It's on the Jefferson Madison Regional Library calendar, but we will be discussing the

the unmarked graves identified at Penn Park and some of the research that this summer I'll be hopefully collaborating with the Historical Society on.

So that's a nice turn of events.

And then Carl, anything on the comp plan?

As far as the DAR is concerned, I think the comp plan was, I couldn't find anything alarming in it.

So, and the comment period has ended as of Sunday.

Yeah, the only thing, I had commented earlier in the process of there, the ideas of some of what the BAR does relative to design issues,

and discussing it throughout the city.

The BAR does not have a purview throughout the city.

So be clear on if the intent is some mechanism for these ideas to be translated elsewhere throughout the city.

The BAR is not going to suddenly look at everything that's going on in the city.

As always, the hardest thing about these is just simply managing expectations

As you've seen with the land use plan, when there's a gap in information, people will insert what they believe.

Well, you think worst case scenario is what they all think, right?

If possible, and remember, this is the challenge of the comprehensive plan.

It is, the intent is, is a broad policy goals and to not get too much precision.

Yet there's also this side, it says, all right, well, if we're going to do that, what exactly do we mean by it?

So there, there's a, there's a tension there and, you know, there's no perfect answer.

I think another conversation we had yesterday in our, our Monday staff meeting was

When I talk to people in the community, there are some, they're very real concerns about the direction of the city and addressing its past and things like that.

And yet, from where I, my training is that the comprehensive plan is a land use document and land use law in Virginia and zoning and ordinance.

And so it's, but yet the community is asking for the plan to address some things.

You know, we in NDS have to do a better job of sort of seeing, you know, communicating what does a comp plan do and not to, but also understanding what the community's asking.

Maybe, how are we properly responding to this?

So that, but there's, I don't know where things stand.

I know there's been a lot of

If it proceeds, the next step will be the code rewrite.

Jody, you probably know better than I do, is it?

I mean, you guys, you already voted on it, I assume, or did you not?

No, there's nothing, there has been nothing formally proposed yet.

It's all still going.

worked up and that's what I've been trying to tell you all.

If you still have any comments on the drafts that are out there, either the future land use plan or the chapters for the comp plan, let me know.

That's the point of my being on the BAR is to be able to take back those kinds of comments.

I found the Charlottesville Tomorrow reporting on this.

They put out a notice today.

But their reporting has been very good.

It's been thorough.

And it has laid out the steps very succinctly and simply, as simply as it can be.

So I recommend you all read their reporting.

But yeah, there have been almost 3,000 comments.

I've got a very full folder of all these comments.

The consultant at this point is analyzing, categorizing these comments.

They will be providing a report to the Planning Commission in a week before our work session.

Our work session is the last Tuesday of this month.

So the week before our material will come out and that's where

The consultant's assessment of the comments will come and the work session that we'll have with the consultant is simply to review these comments and try and determine what they mean for us.

I'm sure there will be lots of conversation and there won't be anything settled at this last work session.

Something I said to Carl a little earlier, or yesterday, but I do wish we could kind of push, by the time the zoning rewrite comes up, that we could really push to have, you know, a 3D model that basically explains what the zoning means at a kind of a visceral level, because expecting people to, I mean, I just, like my neighbors are all hyperventilating about being an R3 district, right?

and it's like, well, it really depends on how, what the city's plans are for it in terms of scale and how we, you know, integrate, you know, like going back to Kurt Kasekur's ideas about nodes and things like that, that, you know, I think, you know, we have to develop a more sophisticated way around just huge swaths of R3.

I think we need to have something that, you know, I'd like to have like a pub next to me or

you know, a small grocery store, things that don't exist, but unless you live right downtown, you know, making the neighborhoods more, really more functional neighborhoods.

Right now, I think we're set up as a bunch of kind of, it's like mini bedroom communities, you know, it's not integrated.

On a spatial level, I'm not even talking about, you know, racial and socioeconomic issues, which are equally an issue.

I think on behalf of the BAR, you know, at least within not the planning commission, but within the internal discussions, you know, I said that my concern was that the BAR was going to be placed in a position of, you know, a lot of this higher density is located within

the ADC districts, you know, and you're going to put the BAR in a difficult position of approving demolitions for the sake of, you know, and the response was that the intent, at least in like Park Street locus amenable was that the

the historic properties would be used, not raised, but be used for more intensive use.

And I used the example of where Robert lives up near Altamont and how so many of the houses up there were actually built as boarding houses.

A lot of folks lived in that small area of the city.

And so sort of revisiting these larger structures as they were designed for apartments.

You know, that remains to be seen.

But that's where I think a form-based code actually is more appropriate, where you're not really deciding, you know, you have a big house, you're not necessarily deciding whether it's a single family house or an SRO.

Well, there's, I suspect there will still be time to continue to add comments.

So I encourage you guys to go on and Jerry's been sharing the links to the information.

Give it a read and, you know, add your comments.

I'm going to stop.

But Jody, you got some great, did you retire from something at UVA?

I retired from UVA, yeah.

Yeah, they won't let me back.

James has a lock on my former cubicle.

OK, I didn't know that.

No, I'm in Rosenwald schools now.

I love it.

I'm back in private practice doing things that I want to work on and it's all pro bono work.

And I'm focusing on African American nonprofits that have historic structures that need help.

I'm on the board of the Jefferson School.

Ah, they can afford to hire expensive.

Yeah, I also, I guess maybe a lot of people knew, I didn't know Breck has jumped to do his own gig.

Oh, I didn't know that.

I didn't know that.

Yes, he is a another individual partnered with and interestingly he's way as part of that but there's a non-disclosure agreement so neither he or Laura can tell me where he is this week but

So, but yeah, he's excited and it's, you know, it's an interesting time.

I don't know if any of you met Breck's dad, his father, Kirk's a landscape architect, and they were in town a couple of weeks ago.

It's just really interesting, you know, seeing how much like, you know, Breck is like his dad.

And I've sort of been wondering when this was gonna happen, but yeah, he's really enthused, but he's also at that point where, you know, having been there myself, I say, well, now you're not a practitioner, you're a businessman.

So we'll see how he's doing.

No, no, I won't allow that.

But that's a great question.

I think Carl, Tim, we've got to look at who's up for, even Cheri I believe is completing out my calls.

Now she can reapply, but I think we need to, as we found a year moves really quickly.

So as we slide into the fall,

I need to get the list out and all we need to find spokes and start recruiting and, you know, let's, that's a good opportunity, you know, to add some voices to the BAR.

that had, you know, not that I want to lose you all.

I will be leaving in August.

I mean, we are here from August that that's when my term is up.

Oh, geez.

Okay.

So change rules fast.

Hey, Jeff.

Oh, yes.

What was

Where do we stand with the awards?

They've been mailed out.

Robert and I are going to go, we weren't going to go around with like the big thing of balloons and bang on the door.

That just seems goofy.

This is a, you know, a work in progress and I think, you know, we know that going into next year, yeah, we need to do things a little differently, but I'm... It looks very common in the image here, but there's a lot going on underwater and we've done as much as, I think,

I don't know.

I don't.

I think it is.

I'm old and even living down the hill.

They just announced Mary Chapin Carpenter.

Yeah.

and Juneteenth is this weekend.

So the same thing on Saturday, the 20th, is the 20th or just the 20th, the 19th.

Anyways, next Saturday, 10th and Page, well the dairy market's doing a bunch of stuff, but there'll be a community day for,

Robert and I did get a grant this Saturday.

Robert wrote a grant request to DHR this year.

We awarded $10,000 towards the first phase of the downtown mall cultural landscape report and study that I know we've been talking about for some time.

We're going to be moving forward with that.

That will primarily be the PIF level of reconnaissance, termination of eligibility and some other documented inventory, things like that.

And then next year, we hope to then move into the next phase of that, which would be the treatment plan.

So just let you all know that that is actually beginning to happen.

So, and, Tim, you know, you were on place so this, this, the cultural landscape study and maintenance plan is predated me.

input on what it should do.

And so the first step is the inventory, the evaluation of the mall as a constructed landscape, not the buildings, but the mall itself.

And if that is eligible for the National Register, then the next piece is to look at that landscape and its components as a treatment plan for it.

If it is,

deemed eligible for the national register and probably be added to the historic district that's already there, then that's something we would consider moving forward with that combination.

But hopefully there's a limited amount of funds.

We've been able to leverage some of that towards this grant and we'll see as we proceed.

But yeah, hopefully it would respond, the PIF and you all on the state board would find it eligible and then we could,

the research to then do both the cultural landscape report and possibly the nomination.

But the cultural landscape report is important to get done.

For the tree commission, we're putting out a PIF for the study of the trees themselves.

and at one point that was tied into the cultural landscape and we couldn't shake anything loose.

Brian Dailey and I merged them long ago with the idea being that

Something more substantial was needed for the maintenance plan.

And so maybe we would get a consultant who could sort of tackle all of these things.

And it just seemed because of COVID and things, so that's when Mike Rene said, can we separate these back?

We did.

So I know they're moving forward with that.

As far as, you know, what would be incorporated into the cultural landscape report, the treatment plan would be what certainly what comes, you know, what Parks and Rec has and what that conversation is.

So nothing's predetermined now.

It's all going to be, you know, hopefully work together.

But I've never done a cultural landscape study, so I'll be learning a lot as we go.

But we can get into the details later.

Yeah, I mean, right now we're going into a quarterly meeting thing, so I don't think we had anything that's yet.

We are not to the next quarter.