Central Virginia
Albemarle County
Board of Equalization Meeting 6/9/2025
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Board of Equalization Meeting
6/9/2025
SPEAKER_02
00:00:04
and Bryce.
00:00:05
I'm going to order the word legalization meeting for the night, 8.30 a.m. We'll start with a close call in the form.
00:00:18
My name is Kevin Mayo.
00:00:21
I'm representing the Scottsville District.
00:00:25
My name is Bob Beard representing Samuel Miller, Will Howard, Jack Jewett's District, David Mitchell,
SPEAKER_03
00:00:34
David Norford, Brad Manning, Frank Friedman, Ryle.
SPEAKER_02
00:00:38
Very good.
00:00:40
Anyone have questions or divisions to move the minutes from the last meeting?
00:00:54
OK.
00:00:55
The motion with respect to those minutes.
00:00:58
I move we accept the minutes as it is.
00:01:03
All in favor of the motion to accept the amendments as prepared by the Assessor's Office?
00:01:15
Aye.
00:01:17
All opposed?
00:01:19
All right.
00:01:19
Motion passes.
00:01:20
And those minutes can be calculated in the H3Nemics.
00:01:36
and the first application would be in the store with weed, and then going to reservation one, address 612, and join the staff.
00:01:49
We'll say Virginia 2-2-1-3-2.
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Understand from staff's orientation that the property owner has called in this morning and advised his attention to withdraw the application.
00:02:03
Okay.
SPEAKER_02
00:02:05
That's the case.
00:02:09
I suppose, is there a motion to accept it or not?
00:02:14
So moved.
00:02:16
Okay, is there a second?
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So moved.
00:02:19
All in favor?
00:02:20
Aye.
00:02:24
and then we have application number one, which is long, and we do assessors and assessment.
00:02:29
And now I understand there's any more questions.
00:02:35
make the gap from the stable to 1040.
00:02:41
In that case, I would use a official recess so that we can move on to whatever it is that we want to do for the next two hours.
SPEAKER_03
00:02:59
In a request that we just return
SPEAKER_02
00:03:04
Certainly.
00:03:05
So then I move that we recess until the third or second meetings.
00:03:12
All in favor?
00:03:13
Aye.
00:03:14
Opposed?
00:03:16
Aye.
00:03:16
Passes unanimously.
00:03:17
And this meeting is adjourned at 8.36 a.m. Ready?
00:03:24
We're going to order for the two nights of the consolidation meeting here at 10.42 a.m.
00:03:32
The first shopping thing is application number 56.
00:03:47
Application number 56.
00:04:04
Good night.
00:04:06
Good morning.
00:04:07
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01
00:04:07
Thank you for having us tonight.
00:04:10
It's not for you out here.
00:04:11
Have a good day.
SPEAKER_02
00:04:12
Oh, could we share your name very quickly?
00:04:14
Oh, absolutely.
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Raise your hand.
00:04:19
Anyone who's going to get testimony today.
00:04:23
You saw in the spirit of the testimony, the little documentary, which is adapted
00:04:32
Here's David.
00:04:34
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_01
00:04:36
The property under appeal today is owned by Fashion Square Assets.
00:04:43
It is a department store, part of a bigger mall.
00:04:49
This property, as of the date of valuation, is currently 133% occupied.
00:04:55
This topic was purchased back in 2020 for around $26 a square foot.
00:05:02
And ever since, it's had chronic vacancy problems.
00:05:06
And currently, it's advertised as being up for lease at $15 per square foot.
00:05:15
The current assessment, I believe, it is on the cost approach and not on the income approach.
00:05:21
which generally is not recommended by the IAAO or income producing properties.
00:05:28
Attached within the packet is the red roll as of 2021-2025.
00:05:34
And also with the red roll are the annual operating statements for financial year 2023 and 2024.
00:05:42
and on the second page of the appeal packet, we have three approaches to income valuation.
00:05:49
The first two for years 23 and 24, that is the least fee income valuation and we can see that with the current income and the expenses, that value is very low and that is not our requested value for today.
00:06:06
In the third column what we did here is the income approach with discount for resub and we valued the property as a fully occupied and stabilized.
00:06:20
We used the current rent that property owners are currently advertising at $15 per square foot and you can see that the income
00:06:31
I believe around 11 million, but that is before the cost or discount for lease ups.
00:06:38
And once the discount for lease up costs are applied, it's around 7 million and 500,000.
00:06:46
That is our requested value for today.
00:06:48
And if you look on the page right after the second page, we show our discount for lease up notations there.
00:06:58
Generally speaking,
00:07:02
It is a big-box property.
00:07:05
So the tenants that this property can lease, they have to be a big-box retailer.
00:07:13
So that would effectively cancel out smaller tenants and the smaller tenants from retail spaces and end up in the environment.
00:07:23
They're more flexible.
00:07:25
And along with the appeal packet, I have a peer property summary.
00:07:31
I have isolated comparable properties within driving distance in the subject.
00:07:38
The first property, they have a advertised triple net rent per square foot of $20.
00:07:47
And this property is located on
00:07:51
357 Kellsdale 5.
00:07:54
It's about a mile away from the subject.
00:07:57
The building that it's currently attached to is about double the size at 170,000 3D-shaped
00:08:08
This property, however, in terms of occupancy, is doing much better than the subject properties.
00:08:17
If we look on the care properties report and flip to page three, we can see the subject property on 1639 Rio Road.
00:08:29
And here it's highlighted in blue.
00:08:32
It says the triple net estimated rent per square
00:08:37
I apologize.
00:08:42
I'm on the peer report on page 30.
00:08:57
No, it was not.
00:08:59
It's an additional item.
00:09:03
I do not, I anticipated five copies and I brought one extra.
00:09:08
I thought I would get back.
SPEAKER_02
00:09:10
Do you need this to finish?
SPEAKER_01
00:09:12
I should be.
00:09:16
All right.
00:09:22
I guess 357 Hillsdale Drive, they're requesting
00:09:33
This is higher than the invested $15 per short bit of the subject property.
00:09:40
I believe it's either modified gross or triple net is what the property owner is requesting.
00:09:47
And if we flip two pages on your report, when you go to the property details,
00:09:57
Right here, it has a direct comparison of the rents of the comparable properties and the subject properties and here, under the subject column, we can see that the vacancy percentage is 66.7%.
00:10:11
They're asking rent is $15 per square foot, triple net, and
00:10:19
compared to 357 Hillsdale Drive.
00:10:22
They're requesting about $20 per square foot.
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And right under that is the Pantops shopping center.
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And they're asking around $19 per square foot triple net.
00:10:35
And their vacancy is only 22%.
00:10:37
So the subject is, in terms of vacancy, not as competitive compared to
00:10:48
This is a distressed property and today we are requesting a reduction on the current assessment until the subject property can be stabilized and leased up and valued on the mart.
00:11:03
And for the program.
SPEAKER_02
00:11:11
That's just like the service.
00:11:19
I hope this focus probably engages in a less definite interest.
00:11:23
So, I think that's appropriate to use that word in this sentence.
00:11:30
So, in the current angle, the purchase date from them is at auction.
00:11:35
And that purchase price was based on the disinvestment of such a relationship.
00:11:40
And that was needed for that also.
00:11:45
The point is that we are requesting in the end of this analysis of what Deb will present to you an increase in the assessment from $9,558,58.
00:12:09
I provided each of you copies.
00:12:17
I'd like to address the income approach of the applicant first.
Deborah Collyer
Commercial Appraiser
00:12:45
The existing lease with the county is the full service and they're representing a full service lease at $18.30 a square foot, I believe.
00:12:56
However, this is a modified gross lease and we're responsible for all utilities, repairs and maintenance, routine maintenance of the unique key up to 25 unit dollars.
00:13:13
as well as an annual HVAC maintenance contract, the snowflowing, the janitorial, the trash, any increase in the landlord's insurance premiums as a result of use of the HVAC.
00:13:24
That's definitely not a service lease.
00:13:27
The tenant expenses based on the initial operational budget for the county were $3.24 per square foot estimated.
00:13:36
In addition to them, the county provided the entire profit at a cost of $3,034,000.
00:13:45
And that's due to the building permits on page three of our documentation.
00:13:54
Based on the first initial term of 10 years of this lease, that would straight line an additional $9.24 per square foot to the lease.
00:14:03
Had the landlord paid for the
00:14:06
It would be included in the lease but because we paid for them it's not included in the lease therefore the rent is lower and capping that into perpetuity makes the value lower for
00:14:17
purposes of discussion.
00:14:19
So to get to a full service lease, you would have to take the 1430 square foot plus $3.24 of operational costs and add an additional $9.44 to the rent, which would equate to $25.73 square foot.
00:14:36
And that should be the starting point for the income approach for that portion of the property if you were to do the income approach.
00:14:44
Then the applicant applied a full service rental rate of $1430 per square foot to the vacant space.
00:14:51
The vacant space is demised currently as the same department store that nothing has changed since J.C. Penney.
00:15:01
So we've looked at rents in the market and on page 5 I have 5
00:15:09
there's many large box spaces and the median base rent for that was $13.71 and a median recovery was $2.36 so essentially rent full service for the vacant space would be $16 a square foot using the median.
00:15:28
Also using a retail cap rate for the entire project is not applicable to this because this is no longer just a retail space
00:15:37
This is vacant retail space of 64,370 square feet and service garage and office of 32,140 square feet.
00:15:48
So one of the reasons why we didn't use the income approach is because the cap rate for a retail property would not be applicable nor would it be credible for this.
00:15:57
That is why we fell to the cost approach to get to the fee simple value of the property.
00:16:05
and we developed a cost approach using our virtual evaluation service cost methodology.
00:16:11
We've cost it on pages six, seven and eight of your handout.
00:16:16
Basically, the space that is still vacant, which is retail, Meister's Retail, JCPenney, is 64,970 square feet.
00:16:26
That portion of the building we equalized with the other portion, the other buildings in the Fashion Square Mall
00:16:35
which were department stores.
00:16:36
That was Belk and Belk's Men's Store and that's presented on page seven.
00:16:41
The per square foot of improvements for the subject property for that section is $25.71 a square foot.
00:16:49
The other two department store Belk's which is still open has got improvement assessment of 29.63 a square foot and the Belk's Men's Store has an assessment of $25.80 a square foot.
00:17:02
So we're well within the range of
00:17:04
and the other buildings that are in the Fashion Square Mall.
00:17:09
The replacement cost means less depreciation for this particular section of the building with $1,670,379.
00:17:18
Section two of the building is the cost of the 32,140 square feet that was renovated at the county's expense in 2023.
00:17:32
It has now got 18,789 square feet of service repair garage for our fire trucks and also inspection station for our police vehicles and a forensic area.
00:17:46
to forensics for the police on vehicles that they need to do that on.
00:17:52
That as well as office of 13,351 square feet was completely renovated and we have a replacement cost new, less depreciation for that section of the building of 3,695,583.
00:18:09
When you take those two together, the replacement costs new, less depreciation of the entire building is $5,366,000.
00:18:16
The remaining value is in the land.
00:18:21
We equalize the land at $40 per square foot in the Route 29 assessing district.
00:18:29
There is a copy of our sales from page 9.
00:18:32
Based on that base rate of $40 a square foot, we made an adjustment for location, an adjustment for size, and an adjustment for corner influence.
00:18:44
After all of those adjustments, the land was assessed at $12.96 per square foot.
00:18:53
So the total value of the land is $5,741,300.
00:18:57
The revised value of the improvements is $5,366,000.
00:19:03
And therefore, the new establishment should be $11,000.
00:19:06
Oh, sorry, $11,107,300.
SPEAKER_02
00:19:21
No.
SPEAKER_01
00:19:24
Thank you.
00:19:26
The request for increase is unexpected.
SPEAKER_02
00:19:29
And as my rebuttal, I would like to request a withdrawal of this bill.
SPEAKER_03
00:19:38
Okay.
SPEAKER_02
00:19:41
We've been doing this for a few years now.
00:19:45
If you look at the process, there will be a bill
00:19:58
We're both kind of acting at the last moment at this stage.
00:20:02
We'll probably make that, we notified them a little while ago that we were asking for an increase in the economy.
00:20:14
Basically, it says that the appraisal has to be independent, the appraisal has to be divided into two pieces, except to
00:20:34
We're actually running the states and governments.
00:20:38
So we will basically ask you to increase the assessment because we're correcting information that's been found around the internet.
00:20:51
It's up to you to act on that and make a decision not to make a change and just infer the assessment or make a decision to accept them.
00:21:06
I think the applicant's in trouble.
00:21:08
It was the taxpayer who wanted to do something with the dust increase in 2014.
SPEAKER_03
00:21:19
What were the mistakes in fact?
SPEAKER_02
00:21:21
It was the, we found that the use of the property, it was this service garage and the footage that we used for that.
00:21:40
Basically some of them was office.
00:21:44
There was also more office than there had been.
Deborah Collyer
Commercial Appraiser
00:21:48
And there was also a portion of the property that had been common area.
00:21:55
We had taken out of common area and used exclusively for ourselves because they wanted to provide confidential access.
00:22:11
and the police to behavior certain things.
00:22:14
So the building permit that we had was different than the square footage that was leased.
00:22:20
And we didn't receive the lease documentation until the appeal was requested.
SPEAKER_02
00:22:26
So I think the assessor's office was providing a small deal with Virginia Code Section 58.1-3379.
00:22:36
I think under Subpart D of this,
00:22:40
I think the increase after the appeal is filed is contingent in the provision of notice to the taxpayer, not less than 15 days prior to the hearing.
00:22:52
So I think that the options are all check-in, just take a look.
00:23:00
But I think the options are all from the assessment
00:23:10
I think that the number, the assessment number will change there.
00:23:15
But my reading of it is that we could not move forward over the tactical rejection for those three weeks.
00:23:27
The third option would be to reschedule for two weeks, seven months, I think, two days.
00:23:36
I want to go over that.
00:23:38
So is there, do you have an election?
00:23:42
We would be withdrawing this appeal if we were to reschedule.
SPEAKER_01
00:23:45
So you don't wish to reschedule the appeal?
00:23:48
Okay.
00:23:48
And for the record, the inspection, I apologize, I was not
00:24:12
I'm not aware that there was so much going on.
SPEAKER_02
00:24:15
Had we have known, we would not have appealed this property, and therefore we request this property.
00:24:42
So if we accept their withdrawal, what happens next?
00:24:47
Nothing.
00:24:48
It stays at the original assessment.
00:24:53
It neither goes up nor down.
00:24:55
Correct.
00:24:59
OK. Are there any motions with respect to the things with respect to withdrawal?
00:25:02
All right.
00:25:12
Thank you.
00:25:13
Is there a second?
00:25:15
I'll second.
00:25:16
Okay, all in favor?
00:25:18
Aye.
00:25:18
All opposed?
00:25:20
Okay, the application has been drawn.
00:25:22
Thank you for your presentation.
SPEAKER_01
00:25:24
Thank you for your time.
00:25:26
Thank you.
00:25:28
Do you want these documents back?
00:25:29
Sure, I'll be, you know, it's less for us to open up today.
SPEAKER_02
00:25:34
So I think we need to keep these little peace buttons.
00:26:15
you don't know what they've been doing here.
00:26:18
They've been assessing what every day of the space, what you supposed to go through.
00:26:24
We had a place where we would have changed.
00:26:29
I think it was the assessment.
00:26:31
I think it will be in that information where it is settled.
00:26:38
So that's that's that's that's the answer is going to be in that order.
00:26:43
Exactly, you're going to be able to change it in the future.
00:26:47
That is correct.
00:26:47
I'm sorry.
00:26:50
Lori Allshouse.
00:27:04
Mr. Miller, that staff is the next three.
00:27:12
You got it.
00:27:12
I'm sorry.
00:27:16
He's got all three of them.
00:27:18
And we've taken the information that is common to all three.
00:27:24
He's going to make a presentation individually for you.
00:27:35
You know, you know, I heard a lot.
00:27:43
All of this starts in tab number 50.
00:27:47
The running tab in which this is the frequency.
00:27:51
It's actually the imminent end of the room.
00:27:54
It can be changed from tab to tab.
00:27:58
That's where the end of the tab is.
00:28:00
It starts with a few spaces.
00:28:08
Separate from tab to tab.
00:28:13
each color, and the first process starts.
SPEAKER_04
00:28:26
Okay.
SPEAKER_02
00:28:28
Let's involve dropping, at least, anyone who's gonna be the best one today, you can raise your right hand.
00:28:41
Bon, do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony in both oral and documentary which you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and the opinion of the truth?
00:28:49
Yes.
00:28:50
Thank you.
00:28:52
All right.
00:28:52
Everyone have a good floor.
00:28:54
OK.
SPEAKER_04
00:28:56
This involves properties leased from RWSA in the Buck Mountain area, at least since the early 1980s.
00:29:09
In 2010, they were put into land use, and they've been in land use until this past year.
00:29:18
They were taken out of land use by the Assessor's Office.
00:29:21
That's just history, I'm not disputing whether that was right or wrong.
00:29:24
That's the only place here.
SPEAKER_02
00:29:26
What we're talking about now is what is the fair market value of these properties?
SPEAKER_04
00:29:31
Because my tax is based on 15% of the fair market value.
00:29:38
Okay?
SPEAKER_04
00:29:39
There's been some changes just recently in the assessment.
00:29:45
And I had to add some documents to the packet.
00:29:50
And there's a couple that you don't have.
00:30:10
I'm adding most of the rest of those were things that, you know, they had a lot of interesting things.
00:30:19
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02
00:30:19
I gave them a letter that you sent in addition to the...
00:30:24
This is just a better copy, as it seems.
00:30:28
Okay.
SPEAKER_04
00:30:35
Now, I originally, it's a, oh, basically,
00:30:39
This is a unique property.
00:30:41
There are several other properties that have the same issue in Rockmount and watershed.
00:30:46
And the problem is that a lot of these properties are landlocked.
00:30:51
There's no access to a public road.
00:30:55
RWSA acquired these under the federal condemnation and they didn't need access because they had access
00:31:05
So they never asked for any right of ways.
00:31:08
They never asked for any development rights.
00:31:11
They took partial properties.
00:31:13
So what we have are properties that are landlocked.
00:31:17
And in 2012, they became further landlocked.
00:31:21
And our data had an easement put on them in compensation for disability and environmental damage.
00:31:28
building on the Ragon Mountain Rescalty.
00:31:30
So if you, in the packet I just gave you, this is I think near the bottom, it's a map.
00:31:35
This map is attached to the, this is the dedicated easement.
00:31:47
This easement depicts any disturbance of the land surface in perpetuity.
00:31:53
And it's only with the descent of the army field engineers and the department that's involved in any changes that this can happen.
00:32:02
So there's no way someone can put a right-of-way in through this, and there's no way they can go across the adjacent factories for the reasons I explained in the packet just getting to the material.
00:32:15
So what we have is a property that's landlocked.
00:32:18
We have no data.
00:32:21
I don't believe the Assessor's Office has any data on the sale of landlocked properties and how that affects the fair market value.
00:32:31
So I initially attempted a positive income-based approach to coming up with a value for this property, not an accountant, and I don't expect anyone to really buy off on what I've done.
00:32:45
If that was presented in an original tax, that comes out with a very low income because they're only leasing basically what they would lease until a hug club or something.
00:32:56
So in the meantime, the assessment has been dropped twice since I originally talked to the Assessor's Office about it.
SPEAKER_02
00:33:06
Most recently, that was in just a week or two ago.
SPEAKER_04
00:33:13
And when it was dropped, the way in which it was assessed changed rapidly.
00:33:31
So here's the book for this page that I recently gave.
00:33:41
And you'll see how it's spliced now.
00:33:46
So this is, you'll see the same information in the back of it repeatedly.
00:33:54
What we can see here is that both parts of this parcel are now assessed with a base rate of $15,375.
00:34:07
In the past, if you come down to the second one, in the past, for all the years I've been leasing it, and I can document that back as far as 2017, it's been the packet,
00:34:25
The type of acreage and the corresponding base rate has always been RS2 and RS3, which is not common for properties in that area.
00:34:37
This is a summary of a bunch of properties.
00:34:44
This is one of the things I just gave you in that area.
00:34:50
with the diversity is classified as RS1, RS2, or RS3.
00:35:01
Now, when this was reclassified as RS1, basically, what I was asking is for an adjustment because it's landlocked.
00:35:19
and the other thing I originally talked to John Stevens about was an adjustment because of the easement itself devaluing the land.
00:35:27
He did not agree that it devalued the land and I couldn't find any legal basis for encountering that at that time.
00:35:36
So if we look at the effect of the,
00:35:43
upgrade to RS1 from RS1 and 2, we see that that increased the value to $635,000 from what was $496,000.
00:35:56
Now then, of course, they finally applied the adjustments for the lack of access and the restrictions of the easement itself, and that brought it back down
00:36:13
My belief is that there is no justification for bumping muscle RS1 from RS2 and 3 in the first place.
00:36:21
I should have left it at that, then applied the new adjustments.
00:36:29
And the second other thing was that adjustment for access, which is
00:36:42
It's a 40% discount.
00:36:43
In other words, it's a 0.6 multiplier.
00:36:48
It's too large.
00:36:51
It should be, based on what the appraiser I hired to look into this said, it should be 0.438.
00:37:05
You'll have a copy in the packet that you previously received that included the report
00:37:12
Will Sanford, the appraiser.
00:37:15
And that's the only data I've seen from anybody anywhere on the effect of the sale of a landlocked parcel.
00:37:24
So unless Peter has something, which at this point he hasn't, I think that needs to be reduced to 0.438, which would bring us down to that third box down there.
00:37:44
210, that is still an RS-1, if you accept that it should still be an RS-2 and RS-3, then you come to the last box, and that uses the original RS-2 classifications and the associated 2,025 base rates, and by crazers.
00:38:10
the opinion as to the devaluation being landlocked and that brings you down to 144,000 in the bottom.
00:38:23
And now this is the document that I just gave you.
00:38:25
Yeah, okay.
00:38:27
There are some similar things in the past.
00:38:29
If I could start all over again, knowing what I know now is going to change and what it is.
00:38:37
I had no assurance that anybody was going to buy off of this actually being landlocked, so I've got just a lot of junk in there to prove that it is landlocked and the boundaries are where the Black Fraser said they are and where I know they are.
00:38:57
Now, the other problem, big problem,
00:39:01
I think that these RS, as far as one classification is used for properties that are associated with home sites, and it's also being used for properties that are not associated with home sites.
00:39:19
And you know, realtors always say it's a location, location, location.
00:39:22
Well, the most important thing is how close is this property to your home?
00:39:28
If it's part of the parcel, all right, making an RS-1, it's a quarter mile down the street that you own this other property, otherwise equivalent, then maybe it should just be an RS-3.
00:39:42
As I was intended to point to you, consider somebody has $500,000 to spend for a union there on a home, at a home site,
00:39:58
if they've got $500,000 and they can get a two-acre home site and say 11-acre residual acres surrounding it.
00:40:09
All is one parcel.
00:40:12
One day, buy that.
00:40:14
On one day, buy just the home site.
00:40:18
If there was a home site, two-acre home site, and then go a quarter mile or sit down the street and buy a separate parcel,
00:40:28
for the same price, no.
00:40:32
The fact that that residual acreage is next to the home site makes it much more valuable than a separate parcel down the road that has no home site.
00:40:42
But yet that's the way it's being done now.
00:40:45
It's categorized RS1, whether it's part of the home site where you live or whether it's a separate parcel with no building rights whatsoever down the road.
00:40:57
So I don't think there's any justification for this being assessed the same in RS2, or probably more correctly, RS3.
00:41:09
Now, I've got POCO maps from the GIS system.
00:41:28
but you can compare another parcel in the area and this one happens to be a parcel that's owned by RSA with the parcel that I lease or the major parcel that I lease, the two smaller parcels I'm less concerned about.
00:41:49
So this is RS3, this is now just RS1.
00:41:56
You know, if you look at those and pass it along and see if you see any justification for the difference between the two, each one has a copy of mine on the bottom and the one on the top is each example.
00:42:10
So I don't know if you all need to be a single one of them.
00:42:14
Yeah, but it's different parcels, but we'll just give you an example of the discrepancy.
00:42:25
And some of these might be partially RS1 and partially RS2.
00:42:30
One of the first ones I sent you was all RS3.
00:42:34
In fact, it's about similar in topography to the one that I laced.
00:42:40
For what it's worth, here they are.
00:42:51
So,
00:42:54
What I'm asking is from the major parcel, the 59 acre parcel, which is the page that I directed you to, that would be reduced to the amount shown in the bottom front red shoes.
00:43:16
If you agree that with my assessor that the devaluation of the landlord parcel should be
00:43:23
I've used a multiplier of 4.38, and if you read it, the parcel should have stayed as RS-1 and RS-2 and RS-3, then that's the bottom one that you should choose.
00:43:37
Yeah, I believe eager in thinking that they were going to standardize the way that they treated all the Buck Mountain properties, the RWSA properties, and I've looked in
00:43:52
I see that that hasn't entirely been done yet, and I talked to him about that, and I know maybe that's the way to progress.
00:44:00
The parcel right across the street from where I live, which is about the same size as mine, and appears to have been adjusted by Peter in recognition of access, is still rated R as 2.
00:44:19
and it's not so important.
00:44:22
I know Peter would like to have a standard way of treating the Buck Mountain properties that are leased from RWSA but they're not all the same.
00:44:34
Some have easements on them and don't have access blocked.
00:44:38
Others like mine have access blocked plus they have easements on them.
00:44:43
But the one across the street from where I live, for example, it has a large easement on it, but yet there is still access through
00:44:51
in RWSA property through other RWSA parcels to it that are not blocked so that they can't really all be treated the same.
00:45:00
They have to be treated individually.
00:45:03
There's the issue of fairness and then there's the issue of, well, what is really the fair market value?
00:45:11
If it's blocked and you can't get through the road without going through the Corps of Engineers and the Department of Environmental Quality, that's pretty well locked up.
00:45:30
Does anybody have any questions so far?
SPEAKER_02
00:45:33
None.
00:46:01
when we need some support from the outside.
00:46:26
The reason we use some of the different things, one is in specific situations.
00:46:32
One of those has been to adjust for size of a parcel.
00:46:38
So if a parcel is 20 acres, we might just use parts one.
00:46:43
If it's 80 acres, we might use parts two, maybe parts three, depending on how large it gets.
00:46:51
And it would be a size adjustment basically.
00:46:54
In some cases, we did it that way.
00:46:56
In some cases, we did RS1 and we did a percentage size adjustment.
00:47:00
So we're trying to get those, correct those back to all being done the same way.
00:47:05
Another way we would break it down is if a portion of the land was in steep slope.
00:47:11
You say 10 acres of this portion is steep slope.
00:47:14
We want to differentiate that as a second
00:47:25
So, there are different reasons why we would break it down and not just use the RS-1 and those are the main reasons.
00:47:32
So, just land is landed.
00:47:38
It means made from when I didn't get in.
00:47:42
So, it's landmines and it's made by the same land as the parcels that are locking in.
00:47:48
So, to me, there is no
SPEAKER_04
00:48:01
There is a legal limit.
00:48:03
I mean, you can buy a right-of-way from a neighboring landowner.
00:48:09
You can't buy a right-of-way from RWSA because of the easement that's been put in place.
SPEAKER_02
00:48:24
Walkthrough.
SPEAKER_04
00:48:33
No, but who is going to buy a parcel?
00:48:37
Remember, we're talking about fair market value.
00:48:40
Who is going to buy a parcel where they can't put a driveway into it or a road into it?
00:48:46
Yeah, you can drive over it.
00:48:49
But if you drive over it to the extent that you damage the surface, then you'll violate the easement.
00:48:57
I don't think that's true.
00:49:02
You're saying easement, are you talking about conservation easement?
00:49:04
It is like a conservation easement, but it's called a restrictive easement.
00:49:08
And the terms of that restrictive easement are in your packet.
SPEAKER_03
00:49:12
Because if it was a conservation easement, it would run back and fall apart.
SPEAKER_02
00:49:18
Yes, they wouldn't need to be compensated for it.
00:49:22
Yes.
00:49:34
How do you look at that particular question?
00:49:42
I understand that's right.
00:49:44
The parcels were previously RS2 and RS3, and now they have changed to RS1.
SPEAKER_03
00:49:51
That is correct.
00:49:52
That's also the adjustments that we're using have changed.
SPEAKER_02
00:49:56
But let's just look at the RS2 and 3 to 1.
00:50:01
Why did they change?
00:50:02
Because as we're looking at it,
00:50:06
We're making those, we're now making those adjustments that are reflected in using the rest of the material in the adjustments that we're making to products.
00:50:17
So, we are making access to adjustment, we're making the typical adjustment.
00:50:31
to recognize those organizations did not have access and restriction adjustments.
00:50:38
Or they were different.
SPEAKER_04
00:50:39
No, you were not aware, as far as I can tell, you were not aware that there was any restriction, restricted easements.
SPEAKER_02
00:50:50
We weren't aware of the restricted easements.
00:50:53
Yeah, we were aware of them.
00:50:55
Yes.
00:50:57
So you had an adjustment not for access but for
SPEAKER_04
00:51:08
If you look at each chart, notice I've separated the two sections.
00:51:12
One I call typical adjustments.
00:51:14
Those maybe are not identical to what he had before, but they're the same sort of adjustments that were had before.
00:51:19
The numbers have changed a little bit.
00:51:21
And then I subtitled that, and that gave you basically the value in the assessor's eyes, the value that it would be if there was no restricted easement.
00:51:33
and so that value is $635,000 and then you apply the adjustments for the restricted basements and it brings you down a great deal.
00:51:45
But note that that value of $635,000 is about $130,000.
00:51:51
Well, the value was $496,000 before this all started.
00:51:59
at the 1st of January 1st, that was the value, $496,000.
00:52:05
And so the value, when he changed it from RS1 to RS2, the value immediately went up to $635,000.
00:52:14
Then he applied the restrictive easements.
00:52:22
So in other words, no restrictive easements were even an issue here.
00:52:29
changing that up to RS1 and RS2 would have raised the value by 28% I think I'm counting.
SPEAKER_02
00:53:04
This is the setting that has been re-sized.
00:53:13
And these companies are supposed to share a relationship.
00:53:19
But that was the process.
00:53:21
We should reduce it to axis.
00:53:25
Because only the theory in this case is just means that you only hear that number of people
00:53:43
just for one sample, number one, which actually wasn't even a sale.
00:53:49
It was a analysis of possible offer for a landlocked parcel made by an adjacent property owner, which was not accepted.
00:53:58
So it was assuming the information that this is based on something that isn't accepted.
00:54:07
It is a 110 acre parcel and it's tax net 113-ish, you might not have a table.
00:54:16
And you know, so like I said, this was a study done in 2012.
00:54:20
This parcel sold in 2021 with $450,000.
00:54:27
So currently, our
00:54:33
and, yes, 40% access adjustment, which is just the same as we're using on these parts.
00:54:40
The property is assessed at $290,000.
00:54:43
Let me make sure I'm getting this correct.
00:54:47
$290,700.
00:54:50
It's sold in 2021.
00:54:55
Williams, for $450,000, or almost 40% more, almost double.
00:55:03
I guess that's 80%.
00:55:12
So obviously a larger reduction in value would not be important because we're already below the assessment with a 40% reduction.
00:55:21
So I feel that some of the, that you facing these access adjustments on the study, the information in the study based the access adjustment
00:55:34
aren't necessarily valid.
00:55:37
Maybe they were in 2012.
00:55:40
It's very difficult.
00:55:41
One of the things that appraisals do and that they're taught to do is paired sales analysis.
00:55:51
So these two parcels sold
00:55:57
and the difference between these, the only single difference between these two parcels is this one thing.
00:56:03
So obviously the difference in what they sold for is what we should adjust that one.
00:56:10
So, and then you provide, you know, if you can, you.
00:56:14
and for years of sales when you say this is support for that agency.
00:56:19
In reality, there is never one thing different between two sales.
00:56:23
Even if they're physically the same, the buyers and sellers are gonna be different.
00:56:29
There's gonna be lots of other differences.
00:56:30
So it's really difficult to say absolutely that this is the reason or the amendment that we should adjust based on this item.
00:56:40
It's a normal thing for an appraiser to do and we have to base our adjustments on something, but it's absolutely not definitive.
00:56:50
So I feel that while this study is fine,
00:56:57
Absolutely basing an adjustment for access on this study absolutely at 60% or I think it was actually 50, minus 50, 6.7% or something like that is really problematic.
00:57:15
We do address access on this property.
00:57:20
We reduce it by 42%.
00:57:25
We also address the restrictions due to the seizement that was put in these restrictive comments that were put on these properties on two of the three and be able to also adjust their size.
00:57:44
We also address their topography.
00:57:46
We feel that if these, if they were ever willing to sell these, which RWSA
00:57:54
The reason that they would be able to get the value that we have on them.
00:58:00
And we do not have one of the important parts is that we do not have a home site on any of these parcels because we don't consider any of them building.
00:58:08
So, you know, there's a question obviously between should we use RS-1, 2 or 3?
00:58:16
I believe RS-1 is appropriate based on the adjustments that we put on these parcels.
00:58:21
The fact that we don't use it, we just want a home site is important because we're not saying that anybody can build a house on these because they legally cannot.
00:58:31
So I believe we've addressed all of those issues.
00:58:35
And then we come down to, that's the underlying exempt parcels owned by our RWSA.
00:58:42
These old parcels are then assessed at 15%.
00:58:46
That's pretty much ours.
SPEAKER_03
00:58:51
I have a question about the change between RS1, RS2, RS3.
00:58:55
Is there clear criteria of what
00:59:01
constitutes each category where you just, well, we kind of think this one is, you know, this part is RS1.
00:59:08
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02
00:59:09
Unfortunately, it's a long, touchy-feely, then definitive.
00:59:14
So there are no set guidelines for implementing RS2.
SPEAKER_03
00:59:18
So I guess the question in my mind is if it was already categorized as RS3, then you looked at it and said, well, we're going to move it up to RS1, but then we're going to put all these
00:59:30
discounts on it.
00:59:32
Why not put the discounts on RS3 if it was already RS3?
SPEAKER_02
00:59:36
Because what we want to do at this point, and we're going to do this for all of these related properties owned by RMWSA, is to correct the value on these three parcels, which we believe we have done now.
00:59:52
And in order for them to be correct and appropriate, we should be using RS1 and then adjusting them for these differences.
01:00:01
There are reasons why we could use those other ones, but none of those reasons apply to these parcels.
01:00:18
Some of those separations do floodplain, critical smoke, and stuff like that.
01:00:24
There are reasons why we could use those in those cases.
SPEAKER_04
01:00:34
We could do that.
SPEAKER_02
01:00:35
See that there are multiple choices in every one of these options.
01:00:40
And that's what we're trying to narrow by nine appraisers that do this work down to all of them using these same things.
01:00:46
And this is not just the nine, but the ones that came before that sent a lot of these pieces in the past.
SPEAKER_04
01:00:54
point out that I'm aware of those sales that you were talking about with regard to one of the examples that my appraiser used because I looked those up too and those sales were part of a larger, more complicated transaction.
01:01:11
I didn't save all the documentary so it's not as simple
01:01:18
and a whole bunch of money later on.
01:01:21
The point is that at that point in time that was what human nature was and we don't think it's probably changed that much that you're not gonna get as much money for something that's landlocked as something that is.
01:01:35
Now I wish I had more data than my appraiser had.
01:01:39
I really hadn't.
01:01:41
But that's data.
01:01:42
That's something.
01:01:44
and the 40% reduction that Peter's using is no more than guess.
01:01:52
I'd also like to remind you again that setting aside the adjustments that were put in place because of the restricted easement access and the reduction in value.
01:02:06
changing to a RS1 immediately moved the value of the property from $496,000 to $635,000.
01:02:19
And that happened something because you changed the category to RS1.
01:02:29
The other adjustments
01:02:45
2024.
SPEAKER_02
01:02:49
So are you asking us to change the lines to lead?
01:02:57
You're arguing that the RS3 categorization was more appropriate?
SPEAKER_04
01:03:00
Yes.
SPEAKER_02
01:03:01
What's the basis for that?
01:03:04
Similar to other parcels that I've let you look at.
01:03:09
The other parcels have different adjustments applied.
SPEAKER_04
01:03:13
Well, you can see the values on there and get a, I don't have a card for each of those other parcels, but you can see the values and see that they're not too much different.
SPEAKER_02
01:03:27
What the appraiser's office just explained is that there's different combinations of RSI classifications, RSC, and the adjustment factors that varies among appraisers.
01:03:38
And then they're trying to get it into the line again.
01:03:41
Right.
01:03:41
Well, I don't think
SPEAKER_04
01:03:44
and a change that increases the value of the property by 28% is warranted.
SPEAKER_02
01:03:55
The only difference is that I came in through a BOE hearing.
SPEAKER_04
01:04:02
Nothing else has changed with that property.
SPEAKER_02
01:04:05
No, what changes is that you went into a process with the treasurer's office whereby they gave it a certain review.
SPEAKER_04
01:04:13
They haven't set foot on the property.
01:04:17
They just looked at the same things you guys did.
SPEAKER_02
01:04:21
They produced us the same type of records that you produced, so if you don't think that constitutes a closer view of what this community is, then you're not leaving us.
01:04:32
Gathering information and taking an analysis of the properties that you did, which you're asking us to do, is what they did, triggered by the appeal.
01:04:41
Did you request an in-person view of the property?
SPEAKER_04
01:04:45
No.
SPEAKER_02
01:04:46
Is there any information that would have been helpful for determining this outcome to a gathering with an in-person view?
01:04:54
Excuse me?
01:04:55
Why should they have looked at them?
01:04:56
Why did you want them to come and look at the property?
SPEAKER_04
01:04:59
I'm just saying.
01:05:03
and you in terms of that justification for changing from RS2 and 3 to RS1.
01:05:11
You can see the other properties that, this list of properties here that have a wide range of different RS numbers.
01:05:21
And you can see each of these.
01:05:23
Well, I have topo maps for the ones that are marked topo.
01:05:26
And they're here for you to see.
01:05:29
and there's no apparent difference.
SPEAKER_02
01:05:32
In particular, the two, there were two log sheets if they're there.
01:05:40
What does that mean?
01:05:41
So we actually can't do it based on no apparent difference.
01:05:46
It's as likely that it should be RL3 as RL2.
SPEAKER_04
01:05:49
Okay, well, here's a comparison you can look at.
01:05:55
and this is a property that's in the same area as IRWSA, it's leased.
SPEAKER_02
01:06:02
And it is RS, RS3, it's one of these, RS1.
SPEAKER_04
01:06:16
They are very similar.
01:06:20
The property is very similar except that they're outlawed.
SPEAKER_02
01:06:27
Mr. Miller, what do you use the property?
SPEAKER_04
01:06:33
Basically, now I use it to just control the access to people who carry guns.
01:06:42
I allow certain people to vote there, but there are people that vote illegally, including one person that hunts drunk, and I need to legally be able to throw them off the property.
SPEAKER_03
01:06:54
So how do those people use access to property?
SPEAKER_04
01:06:57
They walk through.
01:06:58
Like a parking area or something?
01:07:01
No, there's no parking there.
01:07:02
They just walk through.
SPEAKER_02
01:07:03
They trespassing on the properties to get there.
SPEAKER_04
01:07:08
I originally rented it simply to hike there and then for my kids to use.
01:07:12
And my kids have grown and don't live here anymore.
01:07:16
And I have granddaughters now, sons, grand sons, quite so interested in hiking.
01:07:22
So that's the main reason.
01:07:24
RWSA is never going to have to lease those properties.
01:07:27
People come in on four wheelers in the early days.
01:07:33
I prevented that from happening.
01:07:36
I had people come in.
01:07:39
That's why they said that.
SPEAKER_02
01:07:44
What we mentioned earlier is the restriction on the sustenance and the safety of the state.
01:07:50
It's talking about the document, the knowledge, the bones,
01:07:57
Jeff, we were here for the restriction of the box and problems.
01:08:01
Yes.
01:08:03
I believe that's what it says.
01:08:04
And then, rocking on page three specifically, the one that was still needed.
01:08:08
We shouldn't mix with side access, right?
01:08:13
None.
01:08:14
Take it.
SPEAKER_04
01:08:25
Frank?
SPEAKER_02
01:08:26
Yes.
SPEAKER_04
01:08:27
Declaration of Descriptions.
01:08:33
Do it in the clinical state if you're preventing the following activities.
SPEAKER_02
01:08:39
So part two says notwithstanding the former general prohibition, the following activities are not restricted.
01:08:44
It is listed there with in-stream structures and improvements for site access, right?
01:08:49
Yes.
01:08:51
and on Subpart B, there's a wildlife management shop, there's an occupation deck, a slalom stock file, and equipment forms, and undig for a lot of people on the brush for years.
01:09:04
So all those things can be consolidated access, depleting, dedicating access, or equipment fields, and ingredients for slalom processing.
01:09:12
Right, not the building on the road, no job.
01:09:16
Well, no, that's not what it says.
01:09:18
It says improvements for site access, which would allow for improvement provided it's in service of activities which would be necessary for renovation for reservation heritage.
SPEAKER_04
01:09:31
Right, but who's going to buy a property that they can't have?
SPEAKER_02
01:09:35
I don't know if you might buy it.
01:09:36
Probably the same person might be.
01:09:38
It's not correct to say that you can't build a railway improvement that you can't access.
01:09:43
Let's share everything that's happened.
01:09:47
And which part do you think is supporting those?
SPEAKER_04
01:09:49
Which, in particular, which part of, that's item B, construction placement, side crossings, affords, utilities, unpaved, bicycle, equestrian trails, providing such structures for that actual movement of water.
01:10:11
And then,
01:10:22
I prohibit it as the destruction of natural vegetation, natural contours, and so on.
01:10:31
That's something to do.
01:10:33
It's equipment needs like tractors or something, so it helps if you need to grow.
01:10:42
The destruction of the structures on fills, this is something to be able to do to grow.
SPEAKER_02
01:10:51
So do you see the part that says, notwithstanding the fulfilling?
01:10:54
Yes.
01:10:55
So that means, no matter what happened before, the following activities, not restricted, regardless of the general prohibition, these specific things are related.
SPEAKER_04
01:11:03
Okay, so you say that as permitting a road that they built through there.
SPEAKER_02
01:11:08
As seen as permitting improvements for site access.
01:11:15
Yeah.
01:11:16
The site access would be just foot access or question access.
SPEAKER_03
01:11:21
It's quite one of the questions is who will divide if you couldn't do it or not.
SPEAKER_02
01:11:33
But you're not assessing it as if there was a building site.
01:11:39
So one of the things we did was we had a location of justice positively.
01:11:47
We should have justice plus 10%.
01:11:49
We removed that as part of the
01:12:04
And I think kind of this conversation about what is allowed in there and what's not allowed in there kind of difficulty in determining exactly what that means adds to the complexity and
01:12:35
You can say that I'm missing this on this information.
01:12:41
It's absolutely correct that I can attest that it's not.
01:12:44
But to get back to your question, we have a 75% telephone adjustment.
01:12:49
I don't think that changed.
01:12:57
Yeah, 75, still 75%.
01:12:59
So what we've done differently is we've added the restriction
01:13:10
I believe that it's the right place to be and then the other
01:13:31
The other parcels that are not under appeal here, actually some of those have home sites because they may be buildable homes or buildable sites.
01:13:45
Some of them have RS1s, they have RS2s, so it's going to be a mixture.
01:14:01
the ones that have used something.
01:14:03
And that would be for different reasons.
01:14:05
And if we renew those and we're going to do it in the summer, we're going to make sure they all match the same way we're doing this.
01:14:14
It doesn't mean they're going to have exactly the same change.
SPEAKER_04
01:14:18
Only some of them are part of the SA parcels.
01:14:22
Any of them are partiles once again.
SPEAKER_02
01:14:25
So what was the assessment?
01:14:27
Well, the assessment was
01:14:31
And it is personal to me.
01:14:39
And that's what I'm going to do today.
SPEAKER_03
01:14:42
I'm going to go on both in time.
SPEAKER_02
01:14:54
I'm going to talk about what I experienced myself
01:15:35
I'm sure I understand what you're saying.
01:15:38
You mustn't tell us that these, at least, we managed with the 982 a quote that reduced the 2020-24 assessment.
01:15:50
The other bit is, with Glusting, was basically a farther reduction based on referring some of the changes, but not others.
SPEAKER_03
01:16:02
Yeah, I just want to make sure I understand that.
SPEAKER_02
01:16:04
In 2024, the assessment was $425,000 of the exempt land.
01:16:12
And now it's been reduced to $287,000?
SPEAKER_04
01:16:14
As a result of the restrictions that had not been considered in the access, which had not been considered in the past.
01:16:24
That's why it's been reduced.
01:16:26
So I didn't.
SPEAKER_02
01:16:27
Ricky, as you were saying, I'm not correct.
01:16:39
The assessment has gone down.
01:16:54
Yes, it has gone down.
01:17:04
So, I'll explain that.
01:17:06
So, Mr.
01:17:15
And these were not contested in prior years because Texas was paid only $405,000 on this parcel.
01:17:23
They were in the land use program.
01:17:26
And then we finally came to the determination that these parcels cannot be around the forms we specifically, and these trees could never be cut.
01:17:37
So without RWSA's
01:17:41
allowing it to happen and actually the restrictions would never allow it to happen.
01:17:47
So we removed them from the land use program.
01:17:49
That's when the market value of these potatoes, they were being assessed in.
SPEAKER_04
01:17:56
I do not, it's not on the entire parcel, it's just on these restricted areas.
01:18:05
I'd like to point out something.
SPEAKER_02
01:18:08
Land use conservation easement is on the entire course.
01:18:14
Just the use of these little
01:18:36
I'd like to clarify a section that you've seen in the previous conservation visit.
SPEAKER_03
01:18:48
Yeah.
01:18:49
If it wasn't a lease, he's very tactical.
01:18:51
There are other taxes.
SPEAKER_02
01:18:53
It's a tax exempt.
01:18:56
So, you know, these properties like Mr. Miller's, they tie your rent based on the assessment values.
SPEAKER_04
01:19:04
Yeah, no.
01:19:05
My rent is based on what their consultant determined was fair market, and that was based on taxable parcels that people were renting, which meant people were paying taxes, the owner paid the taxes.
01:19:20
See, now I'm paying fair market rental, plus I'm also paying 15% of the fair market taxes.
01:19:30
But I do want to point out that
01:19:34
I don't believe that ever been considered before I brought it to Peter's and John's attention early in the year.
SPEAKER_03
01:19:51
But you're not saying they didn't consider it yet?
SPEAKER_04
01:19:54
Oh, yes, no.
01:19:55
They finally considered it as of May 23.
01:19:59
May 23 is when they made the decision, or at least when they documented the decision, to consider this.
01:20:06
And that's why, in this analysis here, I'm showing it separate.
01:20:11
What it would have been had they changed it to RS1, and this was not
01:20:18
dead.
01:20:20
And then when they realized it was, then they brought it down.
01:20:26
Brought it down, way down.
01:20:29
But changing ours from one, brought it way up.
01:20:31
So they gave me the one hand, but they were taken away with the other hand.
SPEAKER_02
01:20:37
So to speak.
01:20:44
So Mr. Mitchell, I wanted to say, in the end, we are considering that, those restrictions, for the value that's averted.
01:20:54
So yes, we went through several collaborations, and there was lots of confusion with this appeal in the first place.
01:21:02
It all started with kind of an appeal of the land use qualification, and it evolved into an appeal of the value.
01:21:09
We did not handle it very well at the beginning,
01:21:13
regrouped in me, I believe did a really good job of this course in the end.
01:21:18
But I just want to comment on conservation easement.
01:21:23
Say this was a conservation easement.
01:21:25
A conservation easement has to be assessed at a reduced value.
01:21:31
Hopefully if it would have qualified for land use half the time, it would have been under that easement.
01:21:36
Otherwise, it is assessed at a reduced value to represent the loss in value.
01:21:42
and given away.
01:21:44
And we have this firm and it started in my office that that reduction in value is 50%.
01:21:49
50% is where we got the 50% reducing on these parts is really restricted areas.
01:21:56
So we tied that together.
01:21:59
I neglected to say that earlier.
01:22:03
That's the point of this.
SPEAKER_04
01:22:05
That was
01:22:08
and I don't see that 50% as they're using it.
01:22:12
No problem with that.
01:22:14
I don't think that's proper.
01:22:15
It's in keeping with the spirit of the law anyway.
SPEAKER_02
01:22:22
It's not actually a consolation issue.
SPEAKER_04
01:22:25
They have similar packets, spreadsheet analysis.
01:22:34
Two smaller parcels if we need to look at those.
01:22:37
It really depends to a large extent what, I mean, I know I was only supposed to... Is there anything else we need to discuss about engagement?
SPEAKER_02
01:23:01
It's all the same.
01:23:02
It's just
SPEAKER_04
01:23:08
There was an issue of the acreage, and Peter and I have come to agreement on that.
01:23:13
He was not aware that I was only leasing part of one of these parcels.
SPEAKER_02
01:23:18
That's another thing, and he's already given me the sheet that shows the corrected assessment.
01:23:24
The access adjustment you have, you've got it at 40%.
01:23:30
He's saying 86-ish percent.
01:23:35
So that's not, that's strictly related to that.
01:23:41
We don't normally use the land lot.
01:24:07
and significantly minus 10%.
01:24:09
So this is a much higher reduction for all of them.
01:24:15
And being able to identify exactly how much that should be is very difficult.
01:24:21
How much aspect of that restriction, it's just a very difficult thing.
SPEAKER_04
01:24:30
One thing to remember though is what we're talking about is fair market value.
01:24:33
And that's what a knowledgeable buyer
01:24:36
He's going to pay for a piece of property.
01:24:37
There is a knowledgeable buyer who can buy a several hundred thousand dollar piece of property when it has no deeded access.
01:24:46
No deeded right away.
01:24:49
Who does it?
01:24:51
Not a knowledgeable buyer.
SPEAKER_02
01:24:52
In this case, the market.
01:24:55
There's land owned by the same person next to the building.
01:24:59
You can put it on the market.
SPEAKER_04
01:25:08
That happens.
01:25:10
As soon as there's a dated access to this parcel, then by all rights, you know, it's going to change the assessment.
01:25:17
Yeah, there is a dated access and it would be difficult to get.
SPEAKER_02
01:25:22
Because, you know, I think they will have 40% you want 50%?
01:25:30
Yes.
01:25:31
So that's
SPEAKER_04
01:25:37
and the base raid is a big disagreement that you know I mean maybe the day will come when you're doing everything that way when you're starting with RS-1 and there is no RS-2 and RS-3 but I don't see that happening in the near future in the meantime I'm getting burned.
SPEAKER_02
01:25:57
Mr. Mayo, you don't need any more general
01:26:06
Yeah, I think I understand generally the point of dispute.
01:26:09
Does anybody need anything further?
01:26:14
A lot of people, Christine.
SPEAKER_04
01:26:17
Okay, fine.
01:26:18
Christine, are you waiting for me to?
01:26:21
Please tell yourself about the other two parcels.
SPEAKER_02
01:26:23
Are there any arguments that you would like to make that are specific to the other two parcels?
SPEAKER_04
01:26:34
This is the one that is on the map is to the far west, right here.
01:26:51
And the second one I'll give you is this parcel right here, which is actually has now from, he's been in it.
01:27:01
So the first one I'm going to give you is the one on the left.
SPEAKER_02
01:27:05
This is why it says 26.
SPEAKER_04
01:27:09
Yeah, on this map it is 26, yes.
SPEAKER_02
01:27:12
So if you look at this map up here, all the restrictions help the most along over here.
01:27:19
It covers that also part of it.
01:27:21
But there's no restrictions on this one.
01:27:24
This is the one that he owns only about half of.
01:27:27
Leases.
01:27:29
Sorry, leases only half of it.
01:27:30
Thanks.
01:27:42
One last point here is just giving you visualizations depending on what you decide about R as one, R as two, R as three
SPEAKER_04
01:27:57
and then what you decide about the production or access, whether it should be what Peter is advocating a 40% off and what I'm advocating is 56% off or so.
01:28:09
So this gives you the numbers depending on what you decide about this.
SPEAKER_02
01:28:18
When you write research, you mean during the last month?
01:28:23
and you say recent adjustments, this is what you mean?
SPEAKER_04
01:28:26
Yes, right, since May 23rd.
01:28:31
This is the one where I just, half of it, Peter was just explaining.
01:28:47
It's maybe a little bit simpler, but so just a question, is the virus one more stable?
01:28:54
and we'll be talking about what sort of reduction we've talked about in access.
SPEAKER_02
01:29:05
I'm saying, two minutes, do something.
01:29:11
Do you want to talk about cellular intelligence?
01:29:15
I will be, I'm mostly involved in the process of these substances in almost all of our time, making sure
01:29:29
And then we have the examples which we do not spend a lot.
01:29:39
So these persons that I said about 20 years ago that are still on this list, we didn't get a lot.
01:29:50
Even the least old ones were in here because there's probably those bad with many of these things.
01:29:59
So saying that, you know, being treated wrongly because of
SPEAKER_04
01:30:31
There's a lot of them out there that are RS2, RS3, there were combinations of either of those.
SPEAKER_02
01:31:06
Okay, any further questions?
01:31:12
Okay, I'll tell you about this one, comment on specific particles, specific arguments, or other one, but yeah, nothing more to add to the fact that we just don't have the constraints.
01:31:28
No, I did not judge.
01:31:33
Okay, any further questions?
SPEAKER_04
01:31:43
No, they're not making a mistake.
SPEAKER_02
01:31:49
Look at that.
01:31:50
The small number 26 on the map.
SPEAKER_04
01:31:54
Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_02
01:31:56
I mean, I'm saying y'all don't.
01:31:58
Yes, you are correct.
01:32:03
You applied that restriction across the entire two points.
SPEAKER_04
01:32:12
Yes.
01:32:13
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02
01:32:16
You applied.
01:32:25
I applied.
01:32:31
Yes, all of them.
01:32:38
Big parts of you broke it all.
SPEAKER_04
01:32:43
broken out in a small part section.
SPEAKER_02
01:32:53
Number 26, is that A1?
01:32:57
It's 29, it's the low folder.
01:33:01
29, 45.
01:33:03
So that one is this one.
01:33:19
there's only one point on the item
SPEAKER_04
01:34:05
I can just reinforce one thing I've been saying, though, and may have been lost, and that is that the value of residual acreage is not associated with a house site, but it's otherwise equal to residual acreage that is associated with a house site.
01:34:29
It's just,
01:34:32
can't be the same.
01:34:34
Think about the person who's buying something.
01:34:37
That simple acreage is going to mean a lot more to them.
01:34:40
It's going to be a lot more value if it's at their house site as opposed to down the road.
01:34:47
So to use that same residual value for otherwise equivalent pieces of property doesn't make sense to me.
SPEAKER_03
01:35:03
Are you saying it's because of the change to RS-1?
01:35:06
Well, I'm saying RS-1 doesn't necessarily mean it's residual to the house.
SPEAKER_02
01:35:12
It might mean it's close to or anything like that.
01:35:16
That's not a part of the idea.
SPEAKER_04
01:35:22
Just imagine you're out looking for a piece of property.
01:35:27
Extra acreage, if you want extra acreage, wouldn't it be nice if it was next to your house as opposed to somewhere else?
01:35:37
Just to start off with the same underlying value, the same base value, just doesn't make sense to me.
01:35:48
Two completely different situations.
SPEAKER_02
01:35:56
Any other questions?
01:36:03
All right.
01:36:12
Meeting where we're taking the news and testimony.
01:36:41
I'll just...
01:37:05
I'll just leave him.
01:37:08
No, I have a complication.
01:37:14
I didn't realize what the conservation is on the land use.
SPEAKER_03
01:37:19
So I didn't realize I sort of automatically went to land use.
01:37:22
I had to qualify for land use at the time of the meeting, which means you have to have at least 28 people.
01:37:29
It was under land use before I put it in.
01:37:32
You can reduce your taxes.
01:37:36
Is it like 50%?
01:37:37
Way more than that, maybe 80%.
SPEAKER_02
01:37:49
Total of a hundred and twenty-six, but we did that tons of those years in the development.
01:38:00
I kept 60 of them.
01:38:03
Contributed to the tax.
01:38:07
We lost.
01:38:12
Our teachers lost.
SPEAKER_03
01:38:20
I went on that app where I did my stuff.
SPEAKER_02
01:38:35
Yes.
01:38:43
I bought like a dog for some of this stuff.
01:38:49
Like they wanted to restrict the size of the houses.
01:38:53
It was like, you know, historic preservation on this shit.
SPEAKER_03
01:38:57
You can't with some reason, but it can't be too small.
SPEAKER_02
01:39:00
I'm like, you're talking, these average lots are like 60 units.
01:39:05
And you're telling somebody they can live with 2,500 square feet?
01:39:08
I didn't see anything.
01:39:13
I was losing, so I negotiated something where it's like you start 75 meters per feet on a base of 40 acres, and then every 10 acres you get another purpose.
01:39:28
That's pretty easy to do.
01:39:30
My comment to him was, my house is, let me know.
01:39:43
Okay.
01:39:43
We take these in order.
01:39:55
Or is there a general agreement on the arguments applicable to all?
01:40:13
Okay, we can consider these as one, considering that's largely why they were first considered to be substantially somewhat not applicable.
01:40:31
Let me mention one thing that you can't take any further input.
01:40:36
Okay, I'll work it out with Peter.
01:40:41
So beginning,
01:40:44
So just as a recap, there was an appeal of this relating to the status of the tax exemption in your program that led to, led into an appeal of the assessment value.
01:40:58
One and I think two, what's it called, reassessments by the Assessments Office.
01:41:05
And that's the issue.
01:41:11
Nathan Reverick, John Williams, John Miller, and some of those values in all our work.
01:41:26
I feel for it to just kind of give my overview or my assessment of the evidence submitted.
01:41:36
Receiving an appraisal from a licensed commercial appraiser was helpful.
01:41:43
We don't always get something that definite.
01:41:47
I did not find the use of a 2012 study to be particularly compelling, especially when measured against what the appraiser's office is doing, which is adjusting those figures year to year.
01:42:03
I think I've seen paired sales rejected to just devalue based on being a year old or two years old.
01:42:11
So it's sort of hard to accept that that 13-year-old analysis should hold more weight in my mind to overcome the prevention of correctness for the Assessor's Office.
01:42:25
The value reduction, the lack of access,
01:42:34
The RS-1 versus RS-3 contention.
01:42:45
I think on that one, I think either of those classifications could be correct.
01:42:49
It just sort of depends on how the other pieces are allocated.
01:42:55
We're challenging a number, a final number deal.
01:42:58
And the final number is
01:43:01
and RS-1 or RS-3 classification could be in service of a larger argument about the number being too high or too low or dead off.
01:43:11
But in light of the other adjustments made by the Assessor's Office, I don't find the RS-1 reclassification problematic, particularly in light of the activities that are going to happen for me.
01:43:26
about the past tax classification that obviously they weren't able to say the tax it's intended to do.
01:43:32
And certainly understand why that would happen and why it would be adjusting to pieces as well.
01:43:36
I mean, these are some of the big arguments that I was listening to, but curious to hear what others meant.
SPEAKER_03
01:43:50
I feel like, you know, the assessor's office says,
01:43:55
I've done a good job of taking all this information into account and adjusting it and I don't know that there's been any reason to assume that what they have come up with, finally, you could not promote.
SPEAKER_02
01:44:27
Do you think it's over?
01:45:05
Is there a motion relating to application number three, parcel ID 21-49-3?
01:45:15
I make a motion that we inform the assessment of these numbers.
01:45:35
Number three, two, three, and four.
01:45:43
Is there a second in favor of the modified motion to approve the application numbers two, three, and four?
01:45:53
Second?
SPEAKER_03
01:45:58
Affirm the assessment.
01:46:02
Yeah, to approve the assessment.
SPEAKER_02
01:46:05
and Ms. Fonseca.
01:46:06
All in favor?
01:46:14
Aye.
01:46:14
All opposed?
01:46:17
The motion passes unanimously.
SPEAKER_04
01:46:27
Thank you for listening.
01:46:30
I apologize for the phone ringing.
01:46:32
They updated my phone and turning down the volume no longer turns down the volume.
SPEAKER_03
01:46:39
Go for it.
01:46:39
The volume is the same way.
01:46:42
It makes me crazy.
01:46:47
First you write?
SPEAKER_02
01:46:49
The first year.
SPEAKER_03
01:46:52
1040, correct.
01:46:54
Okay.
SPEAKER_02
01:47:00
How many do we have?
01:47:03
We've already discussed all of the folks today on where it was saying that they were going to continue their service to the government to get rid of that.
01:47:18
So we need to be more often that we can get out of the way.
01:47:22
For now, folks in the audience, my name is Stacy Filton, I'll see if I've been able to hear you before.
01:47:28
The information has been selected and attended.
01:47:38
Time is the fourth one, schedule four.
01:48:08
All in favor?
SPEAKER_04
01:48:11
Aye.
SPEAKER_02
01:48:12
All opposed?
01:48:15
Okay.