Board of Equalization Meeting   7/21/2020

Do we have a quorum?

Yes.

The public has the opportunity to access and participate.

And Lewis Herndon also.

Directions on how to connect are located on the Albemarle County website.

And then don't forget to call to order.

Has everybody read them?

Yes.

We have a motion.

Anyone saw any corrections?

I'll move to approve them.

We have the last item from the last meeting.

Yes.

Any comments?

No, I thought he gave, his explanation was satisfactory.

All right, 1179, so I still got that 1337 number, like 1.337.

Yes, because he added the taxes in.

Oh.

So, you know, which I think would probably have made his 2008 number incorrect.

Yeah, the 2018.

Yeah, the 2018.

Is that what we're looking at?

And then he adjusted the 2019 to include the taxes.

Right, OK, yeah.

So I was definitely satisfied with his explanation.

Does that alter your opinion of the evaluation?

And this is almost a brand new hotel in Stonefield.

The 2018 that he gave us did include the real estate taxes.

Okay.

They were backed out.

Uh-huh, okay.

But it's your choice.

Where are they?

And with about five expenses, you'll see that they're mixed in with depreciation, amortization, and some others.

And so he adjusted that figure.

Yeah, all you do is back it out.

Okay.

So you deduct that from the income?

Yes, we included in the expenses, so yes, we deducted from the income.

Correct.

I'm at kind of a loss as to why that 2009 number is so low.

Yeah.

It just doesn't make any sense why they're so low compared to 18.

Right.

It's kind of hard to really figure out exactly what is causing that change and really is it going to have that drastic effect of an effect on the value when it comes in to buy it.

yes there was there was yeah but that was uh a couple years ago years ago but i was just curious whether that shows up on something like Expedia or or one of these sites that says you know this is not a safe place or yeah i don't i don't know i think so but um i don't know i mean i i would agree i mean we can i would say i wouldn't

I just, you know, I can't really, I can't make a lot of sense of it either.

Did your numbers go up this year, Peter?

Are you talking about, did the value go up?

Yes.

It dropped from $18.5 to $16 million.

Okay.

And you dropped that in part because of depreciation and in part because of the market?

No, no, it was all because of income.

Income, yeah.

Yeah.

And the 2018, because we're looking at it with the taxes, if we take the taxes out, was there, is there, was that something that maybe the numbers were kind of off because of that?

We actually included taxes in our analysis.

Right.

Well, what was his number that he thought it was worth?

Well, just over 12.

You know, may just have been a blip for a year, just, you know.

How does that work?

And Stuart, you can add to that maybe.

to arrive at a more fair value based on everything that's happened to them with COVID.

Now, as Stuart's talking about, the COVID has definitely changed things, but with that out of the picture, that's how we would do it.

So just to reiterate, you will be considering at least six months of 2020 next year?

They won't be audited and certified but they'll at least be an indication of what's going on with the value or what's going on with the property.

I mean those are going to be terrible for a lot of businesses in Albemarle County.

I mean, certain properties have not been affected, actually been positively affected.

Grocery stores, retail, retail, and hotel.

So they're going to be the ones that are getting this specific pinpointed information.

And if you're giving relief to one sector, you might be tacking on to another sector?

Well, we're absolutely going to do it as even-handedly as possible.

But that's in the future, that's next year.

I didn't mean to get off topic here.

But yes, certainly.

If you go to 12 million, you'll be valuing it very similar to the Holiday Inn, which is very- Yeah, yeah.

I don't think we should reduce it as well.

What's the basis for reducing it?

It's just so off that, I don't know.

May I make a suggestion that we leave the assessment as is, but send a note to Mr. Grubb explaining that we used the 2018 figures and that in the coming year we'll be using the 2019 figures, which would, in our opinion, conceivably lower the figure in 2020.

I think that's if you're comfortable with that as well.

I don't have an opinion, but I would like to know.

I don't read it as much.

OK. Well, I'm fine with that.

I'll make a motion to affirm the amounts.

Aye.

Karen, you're in favor?

Yes, I'm in favor.

Very good.

Is Billy, is Mr. Rodriguez in the waiting room?

Yes, he is.

Whenever Mr. Ferrell's ready to move on to the next one.

OK, I'm ready.

is too high or too low and after you have given your explanation we will hear from Mr. Lynch and thereafter we will make a determination and let you know in the mail within two weeks.

Okay and your name is?

Okay and I'm Hal Rodriguez.

You've probably just met with my appraisers, but it's nice to meet you.

And I've broken out yours to highlight, I expanded it to highlight the information related to what the improved value of the properties would be under the current assessment.

Our average, the average in the neighborhood, we're four times the improved value of the neighborhood and as I said,

It's not in an easement, but it's got limitations on its use and that's taken into account on the land use value.

Would you tell us or would you tell us what you paid to build the house?

Close to three million dollars.

And who was your builder?

Baird Snyder.

And what would you sell the house for today?

I wouldn't expect that we'd get much more than 2.1, maybe 2.3 million for the house and then the land would be the incremental piece.

Are there two 21-acre parcels there or is it just one building parcel?

Thank you.

Is that where you're getting your 27%?

The 27% relates to the

Salesforce versus that assessment before it was adjusted.

And what it illustrated to me is that they were, in four out of the five cases, the assessed value exceeded, I'm sorry, yeah, the assessed value was in excess of the sales price.

Okay, great, thank you.

Anyone else?

is a higher market than when you purchased it.

And as I keep on saying, it got my attention this year much greater than past years because of the 34% that they increased that they initially made in the first assessment on the land value.

Peter, would you tell us how you came up with the assessment?

It's an hour later.

90,000, not 900,000.

Lewis, you want to give any details about the property from your inspection?

So I did see that portion, but I did see the majority of the house.

And Mr. Rodriguez, does this have a kitchen in it?

It's just inconsistent because it's not in the other's living space and that's what I was using to come up with a per square foot cost.

The house is very well appointed, it's landscaped and it's very high quality.

Peter, do you happen to have any pictures of the other houses in the neighborhood?

I can certainly bring them up.

two and a half times.

Are you still able, I'm not sure if you're seeing the,

Of the house, okay.

Billy, I don't know how to stop sharing now that I'm sharing.

Upper right-hand corner, exit out.

This makes no sense.

Mr. Rodriguez, he likes the picture of your house.

I only want to show that.

and Ars just seems isolated for some reason and so my question is what's really supporting it and I didn't see data that did that.

Over-analyzing components like the overall improvement value per square foot is not really an appropriate way to look at the assessment and determine whether the overall value is appropriate.

I'm assuming you're not including that in the finished square footage.

No.

Okay.

Yes.

You're on the west side, I'm assuming, and I don't know, though, with the, I would assume your views, you have a better view there than they would of the mountains of the vineyard, like you said, that's obviously dependent on the

but property taxes are supposed to be based on market value.

but whether or not it would sell or, I mean, we don't have, unfortunately, I'm a specific comment but anyways, wait to hear from Peter on the Blandomar one because I'm just curious on how that valuation is.

I don't think it's a great apples to apples, but there's no apple to apple comparison here.

It's just, and I'm not obviously an expert on this, but the structure was, that's the only thing I looked at.

And I would say Baird Snyder might not charge the highest amount, but he's certainly one of the best builders in town.

We agree with that.

Yeah.

That were about three times in value for improvement.

I don't have any further questions.

It's an L instead of an L plus one.

I don't know how that changes your value.

That's actually the same.

So it's just a matter of the?

That's not different either.

I don't see much of a difference in the description.

And I'm probably missing something.

I understand the whole the idea of the ballpark kind of like land goes into that, but it's just what's not being assessed that square footage wise price for square foot?

$316, correct.

Correct.

Is there a finished basement at Blandemar?

There is.

Yeah, so the house is...

It's nicer than ours.

It was built by Alexander Nicholson and the permit value was 2.4 million for the house and then 35,000 for the pool.

What was before?

I don't know how I figured out to share my screen separately or change what I was sharing before, but I can't say.

I don't know if that...

And even though we were in the depths of the financial crisis, when we built ours, it didn't make any difference in cost because actually materials were harder to get.

I brought up, hopefully I'm sharing a picture right now, and this is the view from Mr. Rodriguez's property, not the worst, but it is a view of the mountains.

This is a view east.

Thank you, because I didn't know what direction that was in.

That's where the bears went across the property last week.

I don't know if anybody else does.

I don't.

I don't know if there's anything else.

I just couldn't find them.

as only one component of the grade, which is you don't want to include only one component, but that is one that possibly is positive to have been in the mansion category and now be changed to the luxury.

Do I get a rebate for all the years that I was referred to as mansion?

Only if it was a miscalculation of your square footage or something like that, but not a determination of Greg now.

Okay, I couldn't resist asking.

I don't have anything to add except that I think I need some training on this Zoom so I can figure out how to stop sharing my screen.

I've just been stopping the participant sharing, so there you go.

You should be hearing back from us within the next two weeks and hopefully a little bit sooner in terms of our decision.

Everybody have a good day.

Thanks for your time and thanks for putting this all together.

Nice meeting you as well, Peter.

So we do have our next

Yes we do.

He that happened to him last week, so we'll see if he joins us back.

Because we're not a quorum anymore.

Right.

Yes, yes.

The property in Rosemont, 241 Rosemont Drive, so the same school system, 52 acres sold for 4.3 million.

Rosemont's closer though, right?

The Rosemont property was 7,000 square feet, so smaller than the subject.

But I think to me, Blandomar was the closest one.

There's something about Blandomar that just isn't.

I think people would prefer to live out in Crozet.

Just my opinion.

Do you think that's?

No, it's spectacular.

Oh, is it?

It's an amazing property.

I would imagine you're spending that kind of money.

It's a pretty cool spot.

I feel like the land value might be on the low side, especially if there's another buildable site.

Ten years ago, he spent $325 for five acres.

So I don't know, as of January 1st, 2020, if this would sell for four million or not.

It would suddenly be the most unique, nicest property in all of Albemarle.

So if you just hold on a moment, we'll bring in as soon as he comes back in.

And is it OK we're talking about the other case because he's not here?

They're listening to us, though.

Yeah, they can hear.

Perfect.

Bear with us.

Karen, any thoughts on the last one?

I think they range from like 237 to about 380 a square foot on their improvement value.

I actually have to look at his exhibit too, because we don't calculate the building per square foot or improvement values per square foot.

Just thinking those comparable sales three, four and five seem fairly similar.

Three is an 1851 home.

316.

Five is 1980.

That's the similarly aged, built by Barrett Snyder.

Or Nicholson, I think.

OK.

It was $2.4 million they spent versus the subjects.

All right.

is more than just having the value of the extra parcel because it adds to the privacy and just sort of the whole gravitas of the whole of the property.

It's not that he can't remove the trees, it's the tax benefit for coming out of land use.

The vineyard could cut it, but he can't cut it.

Well, no, he's referring to the trees.

That's his land use.

I think it's right on the line when you look at the map.

After 10 years and you spent 3.1 million, does that get us anywhere in terms of is 2.8 something reasonable or should there be more depreciation than that on this house?

The improvement.

And there's extra features 31.5 and outbuilding 86.6.

And does living area include the finished square foot in the basement, Peter, or no?

It does not include basement.

I mean, if you add in total living area.

But so it is inferior in in value in market.

Because the basement obviously you're not valuing at zero.

About $29 a square foot is what we're valuing in the finished basement.

Wow.

There's a multiplier applied to that.

9,813 square feet, knowing that some of it was in the basement, but comparables would have probably finished basements also, so.

I don't know if it's dark completely, but if it's- What did you say, Peter?

Yeah, that makes sense.

Personal view of it.

I'm sorry, David.

If they'd elevated the front of the house a little bit, even a little, they would have had more views from the back, better views, and they could have had a walkout basement, but they decided not to do that.

How's that coming out, square footage-wise?

Well, that's what he's calling 389-ish, right?

If we use the 107 number for the basement, what are we looking at?

For what's left of the above grade, yeah, you're right.

I guess I could probably calculate that too.

It's about 257,000 that you would deduct from the basement.

From the 2.76.

Yeah.

Right, right.

They have a similar amount that was allocated to the basement.

But then the above grade is not as- Right.

That's why it's without having a complete list of every component of every property that we're going to, it's kind of hard to make that comparison.

And that's included in the total price per foot, the land clearing, everything.

If that's a reasonable not like I mean obviously we don't know that I would be nice to have pictures of inside I know Lewis is giving us kind of the general like this is a really nice house to stick out of the house and David I appreciate your yeah going the house if that helps it just it just seems a little high and I don't know I mean it might it might just be that it's worth it but it's just that $400 or whatever we're looking at

I think if you went to a builder and said I want almost 10,000 square feet under roof with this kind of landscaping around it on 42 acres with these views, I mean

That's the other factor.

So I would easily say it would cost $4 million to reproduce or more for this property.

For a replacement call.

right certainly not no typically it's going to be much higher because it won't have any depreciation in it at all the insurance correct cost the only other thing i'm thinking the building might be worth less but the land is the other another side of it i think land is worth more that's the that's the thing that's kind of especially if it has another building site

So even if he had five property development rights on his property, we would not include extra value for those rights.

Is that a fair assessment of that property?

kind of view of it, approximating that value appropriately.

I kind of, David, I think I get a sense that you think it's pretty much, this is fair.

And I mean, I'm not sure I'm seeing it.

I mean, we're considering all these factors.

Yeah, no, that's true.

How about you, Karen, what do you think?

Now.

The assessments I list on those sales are the current assessments.

Okay.

You have to kind of compare.

He did it on exhibit two, but he didn't do it on exhibit one.

Exhibit one, he was just showing my comparables.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, I don't know, I'm struggling a little bit why this is, I mean, I guess, Peter, he's been in touch with your office over the last 10 years.

Well, I know he's been in touch with us over the last three or four years.

Three or four, yeah.

I'm sure he has over the last 10 years, but I wasn't here for that part of it.

I mean, in 2010, the assessment was, the total assessment was 3.983.

And the assessment today is,

So there might be some depreciation on the property in 10 years on the build, but certainly there's appreciation in the area and sort of the property as a whole.

But today, it's probably a lot more.

I think it's sort of, I don't know.

I think this property would be listed for more than $4 million if it was listed today.

And I mean, we can't look at it now, but there was a closing just today of a very similar property that sold for $4.1 million in cash.

OK.

Billy, are we having any luck with Mr. Van Roijen?

when we first started the hearings, but I'm not able to get him to answer the phone at all right now.

Can we try to reconvene at like noon maybe?

Can you bring the applicant so we can talk to them?

Yes.

I don't know if you want to address this.

So I don't know what, David or Karen, what your thoughts are.

12 o'clock is fine, yeah.

I won't be available after 1.15. Who do we have on the line, by the way?

This is Wayne Tannenbaum with Pivotal Tax.

Perfect.

I don't think we'll try to get back before that.

So that's nine o'clock, your time?

Yes, I'll call back then.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I think we'll just step away maybe or?

Yeah, that works for me.

Okay.

Who is?

They leased the property from Janice Linkos.

He's the tax rep from Pivotal.

What's his name?

I've been dealing with someone else completely.

I think it was Wayne Tannenbaum.

Wayne Tannenbaum.

But I don't know what the requirements are in terms of do they need to have something signed if they're

Got it right in front of me.

The lead agent is Christopher Lidwell of Pivotal Tax.

Yes.

Okay.

I'm stepping away.

I'm going to try to find a different phone number for Mr. Van Roijen and see if we've got anything.

and I've tried many times and I've emailed.

I don't think there is, but.

When did he drop off, Billy?

And so I'm trying to see who's joining and who isn't.

That sound okay?

So Pete, if I was in the office, I would be able to run right up the road to his house and say, can I help you?

Right, right.

I'm not there to do that.

Unfortunately.

Do you have any other number for him, like a cell phone?

No, I'm not getting anything.

If he comes down to the county office building, perhaps we could have gotten him set up.

Yes.

But if he doesn't have a way to contact us to ask, so.

Yeah.

When does it look like we'll be able to get the letters out?

We'll talk about that after the meeting.

Is it possible to get Bill Cromwell up for a quick session at noon?

I mean, he said he wasn't available.

I'm just thinking about the

That is an idea.

I could send the text, fill them out.

It was available for that hour.

Do you see chat lit up with an indication there's a chat?

Yes.

or how frequently you may check it.

I didn't even look at the chat when those horrible messages were coming up.

That's a better way?

I got Louis's email with the view picture.

OK.

Certainly teams.

I just don't want any more many things open while Zoom is running.

Right.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Karen, you're here?

Yes.

Anthony, are you back?

And Billy, is the applicant back in the waiting room?

No, not yet.

OK. All right, just let us know, please.

Did we hear back from David?

Can't be found.

No?

I think you're going to be telling the applicant, and then no other matters will adjourn the meeting, the three of us.

Or we'll just let you all kind of schedule it, I guess.

I'll have Billy get with the applicant separately and determine an appropriate time.

We don't have anything for Thursday, is that correct?

I think the next hearing is on Tuesday morning.

Yes.

Right.

Okay.

I guess we can start on that.

And then we'll wait for you, Peter, when the one we're missing today, as we said.

Okay, so Billy, if the flow link is one that we're getting ready to push back.

A representative is online now.

Okay, okay.

There you go.

Mr. Chandler, do we have you here?

Yes, I'm here.

Tentatively, I think there's availability next Tuesday, hopefully will be the time when you can, hopefully you will.

Sorry, the Assessor's there, they're gonna send me just a notice of reschedule, correct?

I think they'll probably coordinate, Peter, please.

You know, time is good for you also.

Okay, you'll contact, you have our email and our admin department, is that right?

Billy, whoever you contacted before.

I have appeals at pivotaltext.com.

Yeah, that's fine.

Okay.

Oh, sir, can we get your name again, just to make sure we have it right in the record?

Sure, it's Wayne Tannenbaum.

Spell your last name, please.

T-A-N-N-E-N-B-A-U-M.

Thank you.

Thanks again.

Thanks.

Okay.

Does that mean you don't move or you do move in second?

We have a motion to adjourn.

Date and time of next meeting will be Tuesday, 28th of July at 9 a.m.

And you might want to add to that due to the loss of a quorum, maybe.

OK, I second it.

All right, all in favor?

Aye.