Architectural Review Board Meeting   4/17/2023

All right.

It is 101.

I'm calling the April 17th, 2023 meeting of the Albemarle County Architectural Review Board to order.

Sure.

Mr. Van Der Werf?

Here.

Mr. Stoner?

Here.

Mr. Matsuno?

Here.

Mr. Hancock?

Here.

Thank you.

Announcements.

Today's meeting is a hybrid meeting.

The public may access and participate in the meeting electronically.

Instructions for doing so are posted on the Albemarle County website at the Albemarle County calendar.

The public has real time audio visual access to this meeting.

over Zoom and real-time audio access over telephone, both as provided in the Lawfully Posted Meeting Notice.

This meeting is being recorded and will be made available on the county's website.

This meeting is a public record and subject to disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act.

More announcements.

All speakers, when it is your turn to speak, please first state your name for the record.

Applicants who are making presentations, note that your presentation is limited to a total of 15 minutes, which you can divide among your team members.

I'm sorry, can we pause for a second just to make sure that the recording is on?

If applicants in the meeting room have team members attending virtually who will need to present, please make that known when you come to the podium.

Everyone who is participating virtually, please mute your microphone until it is your turn to speak.

Disclosures, do any ARB members have anything to disclose?

No, you're not.

You're not either?

Are there any members of the public that want to make a comment about a project that is not on the agenda for review?

Hello?

Hello, Neil Williamson with the Free Enterprise Forum.

Earlier today, I received a phone call from a business owner in an entrance corridor.

and this person told me that they had had a visit from someone from the county that was enforcing sign ordinances in the entrance corridor.

Now I've never heard of such a county employee and I believe this person has visited this particular enterprise at least twice.

It's been my understanding that ARB decisions are zoning decisions and zoning decisions generally are adjudicated on a complaint basis.

And this person suggested that they were traveling the entrance corridors looking for violations.

This would be a radical new shift that I have trouble believing happened.

And I have no idea where to go other than, well, the ARB makes the decisions.

These were really sign ordinance questions.

But nonetheless, you were meeting today and you drew the short straw.

So I was hoping that you might ask questions of staff on the record that we do or do not have folks cruising the entrance corridors looking for sign violations or any other violations just to clear the air about the issue.

As always, thank you for your service.

We don't have any staff that are out cruising the corridor, so to speak.

Everything is complaint driven.

So can I ask a follow up question to that?

That's a good question.

I don't know where each of those code compliance officers draws the line there.

I would imagine if they're out and they see something and it's a violation, they might look into it.

Any other questions?

Thanks, Margaret.

On to the consent agenda, there are no

consent agenda items today.

Regular review items.

There's one regular review item today.

It is ARB-2023-26 Regents School of Charlottesville.

Yes, I'm going to try and share my screen.

We were having a little bit of issues earlier.

Looks like we're good.

Okay.

This is a review of an amendment to an approved site plan for the Regents School of Charlottesville.

The issues identified in the staff report were really very few, but I wanted to spend a minute or two on the history of the project to explain how we got where we are today.

The site is located on the north side of the I-64 entrance corridor and north and west of the on-ramp to the interstate from the bypass.

The property is highlighted in yellow on this slide and it's in the heavier black line on this plan.

I've included this particular image because it shows the relationship of the parcels to the interstate fairly well.

The interstate is really on the left side of the image in this slide.

You may recall that the ARB reviewed the initial site plan and that was in March of 2020 and the ARB submittal that was made under the May 4, 2020 deadline was reviewed by staff.

It was not forwarded to the ARB for review based on the information in the submittal that suggested that the buildings wouldn't be visible from the entrance quarter street.

The submittal described the project as a campus in the woods with classroom buildings connected by decks and trees integral to the design scheme, all to ensure consistency with forested character of the entrance quarters in the area.

And we approved that plan.

We issued a certificate of appropriateness in July of 2020 based on that expected level of visibility.

And the final site plan for the project was approved in April of 2022.

Major amendment was first submitted in July of 2022.

And our review of that first submittal focused on the lighting of the sports field.

We're still working under the assumption that the buildings weren't going to be visible from the entrance corridor street, but the field lighting could have an impact.

And there were conditions of the special use permit related to the sports lighting that needed to be complied with.

But then in February of this year, we noticed after some clearing and grading had been completed,

and with the leaves off the trees there at the end of the winter season, the development was much more visible than we had expected it to be.

Also discussions with the engineering firm at that time revealed that the school was considering a different color for the buildings.

No longer that sort of weathered wood color, but they were thinking of using white instead.

So we're bringing this proposal to you today because that white color would make the buildings even more noticeable in the landscape.

And just that change in the degree of visibility, we're bringing it to the air before review.

These photos show the difference between the winter and summer views.

But keep in mind, regarding in particular that top photo, that snapshot taken on a camera in a moving vehicle isn't exactly a seeing the site in person as you're there on the corridor.

As you pass by with the leaves off the trees, there has been a clear view into the site.

That photo was taken a few weeks ago.

Now there's even more leaves on the tree.

So as you get more and more leaves on the tree, obviously the view is much less and less.

Our review of the site plan resulted in only a few minor comments on lighting and landscaping.

We had identified no issues with the building designs themselves.

They're generally simple and traditional forms and features consistent with the historic architecture of the county.

Most of the buildings are connected by decks and supported by wooden piers.

And you can see that in the portion of the site section in the lower left hand corner of the slide.

So the primary issue is really the color of the buildings and the resulting impact on the view from the corridor.

Physical samples of the materials are on a board on the stage behind you.

Our recommendation on the color is that the white be revised to a muted earth tone to coordinate better with the wooded character of the corridor and to maintain a consistent appearance along the corridor.

And our recommendation on the overall proposal is for approval with the conditions listed in the staff report.

Thanks, Margaret.

We'll ask ARB members if they have questions for staff.

Taro?

No, I don't have any questions.

Dave?

Sure, yeah, Margaret, thank you for that report.

Would you mind going back to the site plan and just could you clarify for me which building faces we saw in that photo that you shared?

One, yes.

The ones on sort of the left half near the sports field, that's the current phase of development.

And can you remind me, has there been any more clearing than was originally anticipated or

There is a

There has been some change in the wooded area to remain or the line of the tree line to remain.

There's a little bit less, particularly I think at the north end of the development.

And there were a few, maybe two or three small areas of trees closer to the buildings that were shown on earlier plans that are no longer shown.

I think there was more grading

Okay, thank you.

We struggled with whether or not to recommend adding some trees back in, just given the amount of trees that are still out there.

I think if there were some trees added closer to the buildings, that might offset some of the extra visibility, so to speak, that we're seeing.

But there's also a lot of,

You know, there's a lot of steep slopes there and so it's hard to know how much impact some of those trees would have or how long it would take for them to be in there.

Yeah, thank you.

I drove by it before this came up and had noticed that it stood out more than I had anticipated of doing so.

And similar, not as much so as the development east of the Rivanna, but still more than I expected.

Thanks, Stade.

I don't have any questions, Margaret.

Thank you.

Thank you.

My name is Mark Kessner, architect for the project.

So we got involved subsequently to a Texas architect that proposed the original sort of master plan and scheme and the cabin in the woods theme.

So we're from Charlottesville.

We're not from Texas.

And so we ride around town and look at white buildings all the time on the hillside.

And we think that's very appropriate.

But to answer a couple of questions that have come up,

There have been more trees cut down than originally anticipated and I think that's more of a problem on our end than it is for you guys because now we can see the interstate from our campus and that's a real problem.

We don't want to see the interstate.

This is a really

Special School, it's a classical Christian school and it has a real pure environment and we want the buildings to feel really pure.

It's very organic.

There are nine lower campus sort of elementary school type buildings and they're cottages.

They're 600 to 1,200, 1,800 sort of at the largest scale.

Dining Hall is a little larger, the admin building is a little larger, but the classroom buildings are meant to be very intimate and small.

The upper school is six buildings, so we've got 15 kind of small organically connected buildings by deck system.

The gym is down the road, locker rooms are down the road, so all that's gonna come back, but the first couple of phases that we're working on, including the field, are very small buildings.

So,

I think just in terms of our color selection, we did choose white because it's very timeless, it's simple, it represents the pure notion that we're after with the school.

The roof material is a darker charcoal gray.

The standing seam that's not asphalt shingle is a very dark charcoal gray.

All of the bases are dark charcoal gray, but the actual siding, the board and batten siding,

like you would see anywhere in Virginia is white.

And we think that's consistent with the area.

So we understand that we're more visible now.

We clearly get that.

And I've written by the project many times from all sides.

And if you during the summer, winter months, you can clearly see the project.

And we're in I guess we're in phase two, right?

But phase three is coming.

So we'll have 15 buildings out there.

I'll pass around a couple of images.

So just to clarify the colors.

Black is the window.

The window, okay.

White is the siding.

What's the medium?

Yeah, so the dark gray is the base, the dark gray is the standing seam, and the white's

The white's the color that we're really talking about today.

And I have an actual sample.

It is a white.

We don't have a planting plant yet, but we will to mitigate that experience from the campus in terms of hiding or protecting us from the harshness of that truck and automobile corridor.

I guess maybe before you sit down, are there any questions for the applicant?

Thank you.

You're right, Taro.

I was just looking at you to go down the line, but that's not the order.

I think

More questions, Frank?

Could we go back to the elevations again, actually?

I might have been confused about something.

Yeah.

I just saw in the diagram that there were sort of piers shown in the little tiny inset site section earlier.

Correct.

Got it.

Okay.

All right.

I was just curious about the apparent scale from the corridor.

And so you're saying that that sort of this one story volume, appearing to be a one story white volume is the thing that

That's correct.

Great.

Thanks, Taro.

Just one question.

There were some trees shown, like individual trees shown on the plan.

Are those existing to remain?

So if they are within the limits of disturbance, they will not stay.

But if they're

in the area to stay, they'll stay.

Okay, so those are existing to remain shown now.

Is that correct?

Yeah, I think we wanna help

each other.

I think we want to plan to help our experience from the school to not see the interstate as much and to help the question of whether or not you can see the campus.

I mean sure in my opinion it's a beautiful campus so I'd want you to see it from the interstate but the conversation is moving forward whether or not you'll be able to see it.

I don't know that

Thank you.

I don't have any more questions.

Chris, are there members of the public that would like to comment?

No, we don't have members of the public who wish to comment.

Okay.

Now we'll go into discussion.

Frank, you're first this time.

No, I'm fine.

I would say given the scale, I don't have any issue with the color.

I think if they were three-story structures with three stories of white, I'd probably feel differently.

But I think given the limited visibility, we're talking about four months a year in which there's some visibility,

Thank you.

Taro?

Yeah, I'm pretty much of the same mind with Frank.

I think given the scale, I'm not especially concerned with the color white.

I think the only thing is

Yeah, I agree with Taro and Frank.

I think

provided that there is a landscape plan submitted that provides some additional screening both to the applicant's benefit and to the benefit of mitigating the visual impact of the development.

Thank you.

I'm in agreement with my fellow board members.

I think it's such an interesting kind of collection of buildings.

and as mentioned it's pretty low profile and doesn't you know given the distance and the height of the buildings I don't think it'll have a huge impact on the corridor and I don't I mean we might end up not being able to see this you know because of the applicant's desire to not see the interstate but

I personally think glimpses of it would be kind of nice because you'd be curious as to what it is with that collection of buildings kind of cited that way.

Whereas when you see a four-story apartment building, it's pretty obvious.

But yeah, I agree.

I think we struggle with the white on the big expanse of an apartment building.

Whereas here, I think scale-wise, it's okay.

Yes.

Yeah, I think we need, yeah.

Oh, I've drafted, provide a revised landscape plan with additional plans to screen the buildings from the entrance quarter street, but maybe you want to tweak that?

It's beautifully written, Margaret.

Do you have any, I don't have any,

Particular opinion, but we have a thought on number five, replacing the Inkberry-Hawley.

Consider.

What's your comment on that?

I do.

It's I think it's it's a native Virginia shrub.

It might not be native to the Piedmont.

It's native to the coastal plain region.

But the landscape architects struggle with an evergreen shrub that is somewhat native.

And this is, I think, a Virginia native.

So all that to say I'm OK with the inkberry, Holly.

It's used a fair amount and it's an evergreen shrub.

And it does grow here.

And it's not invasive.

I mean, it's a consideration.

I'll just give you a little background on that.

We're in the process of updating our recommended plant list to eliminate invasive species.

And there are sources that include that on invasive lists.

So we haven't officially changed the list yet.

Yeah, if it's invasive, I'm in trouble.

I've specced it a lot.

I think we can keep it at the level of consider, given the controversy.

Thank you.

I'd like to make a motion to approve the application with the conditions listed in the staff report amended as follows to provide a revised landscape plan with additional plans to screen the buildings from the entrance corridor to revise the parking lot pole lights to make the light fixture cut sheets visibly fully legible, revise the lighting plan and consider replacing the Inkberry-Holly.

Call the vote.

Mr. Van Der Werf?

Aye.

Mr. Stoner?

Aye.

Mr. Matsuno?

Aye.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Oh, we've got your samples.

Thank you.

There is one work session today on the entrance corridor design guidelines addenda.

Viewing another plan.

Okay.

Hi, everyone.

Thank you again for your continued work and review of this project.

Today we'll be reviewing the draft entrance corridor addenda for the full extent of Interstate 64.

The last time you saw this, we had only surveyed the extent west of exit 120.

Now that the eastern portion has been surveyed, that information has been integrated into the text and precedent imagery.

As you may remember, this corridor does not have segments.

The experience is fairly consistent with some distinct areas along the way.

What we had noted before included expansive views provided to travelers coming

off of Afton Mountain.

We've similarly noted the view of the water and mountains from the bridge that goes over the Rivanna River between interstate exits 124 and 121.

As seen in the lower middle image, the additional precedent images are on the bottom row.

The images on this sheet in general are ordered from going from the Western

and of the western terminus of 64 within Albemarle County to the eastern terminus of 64 within Albemarle County.

Overall, the predominant experience along the corridor is that of landscapes and views.

This is the only spread we have for you today.

I can flip between

The different pages.

Altogether, the zoning is fairly rural, except for the areas where it passes through development areas.

Thanks, Mariah.

Very timely corridor.

We can go into discussion.

Maria, thank you.

I think it's very well done as always.

I think, I don't know that this needs to be added there, but I think the survey of the corridor, the issue today, the issues observed at the development east of the Rivanna make me think it might be useful.

It's probably something outside of our purview, but in terms of recommendations, just to establish zones where

where the landscape character should be preserved in some way necessarily in the development areas around the city.

It's eroding in terms of the amount of tree cover, but it's just in terms of protecting the long-term rural character of the entrance to the county.

I don't know if there's anything we can do in terms of recommending additional buffer area or other things for the highway that helps preserve that character and emphasize the natural views that are highlighted here.

Thanks, Margaret.

I would agree with Dade.

I think it's well done.

I think the characteristics to avoid are appropriate.

I don't know, to your point, Dade, I don't know how we would document requirements for

I think the character in the urban area is a little bit different, but I don't know that it's different enough to justify creating a separate zone.

I don't think the requirements really, things we're looking at probably aren't really any different.

Thanks.

Tara?

Yeah, Mariah, thanks for putting this together.

Yeah, I think I appreciate the work that's been done on this.

Thank you.

Just had a couple of questions.

I mean, in some cases, those can be long stretches.

Just a thought.

And then just the Wegmans image prompted another question.

Do we, are there restrictions on limbing up a wooded buffer?

Because I think, I mean, if it's a, you know, all deciduous forest,

You can see through a pretty wide buffer, but just a thought.

I think that's what happened here.

We were just talking about that just this morning.

It might be worth a discussion, just a general work session about how to treat visibility and when a large part of the buffer is in the right of way.

And there's just, when you draw a big tree line on the plan,

But not necessarily.

And particularly, if a portion of that comes out, even if it's the portion that's further away, I think we're just learning that it really opens up the view, even though there's a lot of trees left.

So we might want to think about how much, I don't know what the word is, how much emphasis to put on what's remaining in the buffer and just

Yeah, I think the example on 29 north of Polo grounds, as much as I know in my mind's eye, I thought that was going to be an intense buffer.

There are zones where it's not.

It is.

And there might still be some planting left to do in there.

And driving by recently, it looked like maybe a lot of trees may have come down in a storm.

Right.

I guess I'd ask the question, do we really care about the on and off ramps?

I think the experience is on the corridor.

And I think there are probably many instances where those off ramps are then connecting to another arterial that is also an entrance corridor.

That's a good point.

It might not matter.

There might be something to think about when you think about what is your first experience coming into a place?

Where does that point, where should that point lie?

If it's on the off-ramp, just off of the off-ramp, when you turn, there are many moments.

So it might be different depending on the ramp.

One thing I would also be interested in is

Sometimes along long stretches of interstates and roadways, it can become monotonous and boring.

And sometimes entrances happen just by virtue of seeing something and being introduced to a city and that kind of helps break up the pace of an interstate and introduce you to a city.

So in some instances, is it okay to see what belongs in a city?

and a more urban form, is that actually communicating some sense of arrival and character to Charlottesville?

That's a really good point.

Yeah, I drove to Richmond this weekend and it's pretty boring.

Much of the, Neil Williamson with the Free Enterprise Forum, two points.

Much of this discussion over the past few months has been talking about the experience and

When you're talking about the I-64 corridor, nothing in here speaks of the fact that you're driving 70 miles an hour.

And I think that it would be important to put that into the context of the experience.

Also, the idea of characteristics to avoid obstructed mountain views, that's a big statement.

And the mountain views are distant, and there's a lot of property between

I-64 in the mountains.

Very little bit that ARB has control over.

So I think you want to be balancing that in this document that's supposed to be helpful to applicants.

I would encourage you to recognize the speed, very much the idea of the buffer that is provided by VDOT.

As well as, which is mentioned in here, but I don't know that it's mentioned as a VDOT right of way.

It is definitely mentioned as wooded buffers and whether or not you consider those to be part of the buffer that you would consider for something that's adjacent to 64, as we saw with the Wegmans shopping center.

So.

Thank you.

That's a great point.

It makes me think too, maybe the level of importance that the long view, the distant view,

is more important and how that is affected by speed and by topography versus if it's a relatively flat portion of 64 and it's pretty wooded, you'd have to do this real quick as you're driving to notice it.

I think to Mariah's point, too, you have an expectation as you enter an urban area that you're going to see buildings, not that it's going to be all trees.

Because quite honestly, when it's all trees and you need to get off to get gas or whatever, I don't get off because I assume it's too far away.

So I think you raise a really good point that I don't think we should obstruct all views from the corridor.

Great point.

Well, I guess I appreciate Margaret's suggestion of a work session and would support that as well.

I guess one question for Margaret as well is I know we've talked about

making some recommendations to update the guidelines and also maybe exploring scenic highway designation for some spaces to provide a little more visual control than is currently provided by the guidelines.

What next steps, what would be the process and when could we begin that?

Because I do feel like we've started before, at least I feel like it's become clear to me that I'd like to find some way to establish

Maybe some greater landscape requirements to preserve rural character in some areas where it's eroding.

Sure.

OK. And that goes through 24.

Is that right?

So that's when that would.

Right, so that's got a ways to go.

So would the process be then that we have work sessions here and report out recommendations that then are

Yeah.

And I'm sorry, I don't have the comp plan schedule in front of me, but I can share that with you all again.

And as the objectives and strategies are further developed, we will be coming back to you with that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

OK, moving on.

Thank you, Mariah.

Other business?

We have a motion to adopt the March 20, 2023 ARB minutes.

Also move.

Call the vote.

Mr. Van Der Werf?

Aye.

Mr. Stoner?

Aye.

Mr. Matsuno?

Aye.

Mr. Hancock?

Aye.

Thank you.

Other items, any board members or staff that have any other items that weren't on the agenda?

Hearing none, next meeting, the next ARB meeting is scheduled for May 1st, 2023.

Correct.

I would support that.

I think all of us agree.

By our agreement, we can say we can attend.

All right, the meeting is adjourned until the next meeting on May 15th.

Time is 1.49.