Architectural Review Board Meeting   6/6/2022

All right, the time is 1.01 p.m.

I'm calling the June 6, 2022 meeting of the Albemarle County Architecture Review Board to order.

This meeting is being held pursuant to and in compliance with ordinance number 20A16, an ordinance to ensure the continuity of government during the COVID-19 disaster.

The quorum is present.

Architectural Review Board members present electronically are Frank Hancock, Dade Van Der Werf, Frank Stoner, Taro Matsuno, and myself, Chris Henningsen.

Opportunities for the public to access and participate in the electronic meeting are posted on the Albemarle County website at the Albemarle County calendar.

The public has real-time audio visual access to this meeting over Zoom and real-time audio access over telephone.

Both is provided for in the lawfully posted meeting notice.

This meeting is being recorded and will be made available on the county's website.

This online meeting is a public record and subject to disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act.

All speakers, when it is your turn to speak, please first state your name for the record.

Everyone who is participating today, it is good practice to mute your microphone until it is your turn to speak.

We'll just go to disclosures.

Do any ARB members have anything to disclose?

No.

No.

Alright, great.

So there are no consent agenda items today or regular review items today.

We just have one work session.

The topic is the Entrance Corridor Design Guidelines Addenda, and the presentation will be made by Margaret Maliszewski and Mariah Gleason.

Great.

At our May 16th meeting, we presented a draft template design for the Entrance Quarter Guidelines agenda and there was a general consensus that the design looked good.

So we took content from a portion of Dade's presentation on their Route 250 West corridor and we put that into the new template format.

And that was for the Afton Mountain segment, the westernmost segment of Route 250 West.

We hope you've all had a chance to review that content.

I do have a few comments on the work for that segment.

One, as we wrote the text for the general characteristics and the more specific features, it felt like the eastern end of the Acton segment should end at Plank Road, which is a bit west of the segment and in the work that Dave did.

I think the end point from your work was Brooksville Road or Route 796.

But after driving the corridor again this weekend, I think the segment really should end at the Route 151 intersection and obviously we can all discuss that.

The other point I want to make is that in drafting this first segment, we eliminated the historic use patterns entry on the segment sheet

It just didn't seem necessary after completing the text on the overall corridor sheets.

So if anybody's missing that, we can talk about that as well.

But today we'd like to get your comments on this draft Afton segment, and then we'd like to talk about the process moving forward.

Sure.

I think, Margaret, your suggestion of ending it at 151 makes sense and support that.

And I would just like to give my compliments to Mariah and you and everybody on this.

I think it's wonderful.

Hardly.

No, I think the pros and I was especially impressed by how delicately you called out the things that we shouldn't

I encourage folks to do it again without being overly negative about themselves.

Yeah, I totally agree.

All right, well, I guess if there's no further comments at this point,

I apologize.

I was waiting for my home phone to stop ringing before it came off mute.

It has now stopped.

I would echo a date and Chris's comments.

I think the graphic design is great.

I think it reads so well, so clear.

My only question is diving into it.

Do we need, do we think we need

both page two and the detailed page three and four.

And then kind of as a follow up to that, are we setting ourselves up for a lot of work?

Yeah, I think those are good comments.

I think what's going to happen as we do a few more of these, we're going to find that there are characteristics and just chunks of text that will be applying to various pieces of other corridors.

So, you know, there's a, you know, like the next segment of 250 West may be very similar to a segment on

250 East or somewhere else.

And so I think as we go along, it might actually, I think we have to get to a point and then I think it will become less work.

But we're certainly open to any suggestions that anyone has for streamlining.

Why don't I run through the next couple, I just have a few more slides and then maybe we can talk about all that together, if that works for y'all.

So also at our last meeting, we looked at this list of corridors.

These are the ones that survey work has been completed on.

And then this list is a little bit longer.

It's the ones that we still need to cover.

There was general agreement from board members that they could continue with this work.

As we just heard, also there was suggestions maybe that there are some ways for streamlining.

Frank, then you had a suggestion about ARV members meeting with staff for a conversation before putting a whole lot of work into a presentation.

That seemed like a great idea.

Mariah has drafted an outline of how the work might flow from here.

I think I just jumped ahead myself let me just see what I've got here so yeah so I think in terms of streamlining an idea that we had was for possibly putting together a survey form where we would have check boxes and space for adding notes but and this is just a this is not a complete version but if board members are interested in this we can continue to work on this

We could try to identify all the keywords and the descriptive terms that seem to be recurring for the various corridors, offer those as options with check boxes, get them on the form so it might be easier to just identify the characteristics and then we would take that and put it into the new template format.

The other thing we'd like to know is if there is mapping that we can provide you that would help

to help streamline the process for you.

Just to jump in on the mapping, the mapping that we were thinking about when looking at the corridor, everybody had kind of highlighted the whole corridor, but it was hard to tell where segments started and stopped all the time, just depending on the scale of the corridor.

So we thought maybe using maps would be helpful just for having a more

So then once we get that information together, we'll provide another shared folder to put it all in.

The idea of meeting with staff is a great idea.

I think it's a great thing we should do.

Then we'll draft that text and put it into the template format and then present it like we are today.

In the meantime, we'll continue to work to transfer the survey work that's already been completed into the template format and we'll

Possible we'll need to check in with individual members as we're doing that, but then we'll do our best to keep bringing those to the ARB meetings on a regular basis.

So just questions for today.

We've already got the comments on the act and segment of the other comments on the template format.

I think we were short a couple of

board members last week, so there weren't any, we didn't get comments from, I think, David and Frank Stoner on the template format generally.

Thoughts on survey form, thoughts on mapping needs, and then moving forward with the un-surveyed corridors.

So that is all that I've got for today.

Can I pull up an earlier slide for discussion?

Just to add some nuance to the question, Frank Hancock, you asked, it's a good one that we struggled with.

What is the purpose of having a segment and a corridor kind of two pages to reference?

And what we kind of thought through was that for these segments that don't have a lot of information,

in them already and they're very rural and there's just not a whole lot of definition there, then that would be an aspect, that would be a time where it'd be most appropriate to look at the corridor as an over, speaking to the overall context compatibility.

And then for these smaller segments, you would reference this, the user would reference both the segment and the overall like

Narrative that's written in the corridor.

So essentially there would be there would be two sheets to look at.

That's very helpful.

Thank you for just so I completely understand.

So some of these segments might not have the following

kind of deep dive.

Yeah, what we're kind of thinking is that there are some segments that are very distinct.

Greenwood is very distinct in seeing the rolling cascade hills into this pastoral land that's, there's both a close and a faraway, and that's distinct about the segment.

There are some segments that just don't have a lot in them.

So we could probably group them into like one segment sheet

Yeah, I think the whole segment idea is really good for a corridor like 250 where it changes in character from start to end so much.

A corridor like 151 that Frank Stoner kind of outlined seems so small wouldn't really need to have any segments.

It would just be that one page corridor, you know, would be all that you would need for that.

I think that's right and I think that's where Mariah's design for these sheets will work really well.

I think the corridors are all different but I think the

All right Mariah, how are you guys taking the degrees, once we have these quarters done and the segments done, do you imagine there being a quarter specific

Requirements or guidelines that get added or modifications of sort of the existing code to address these sort of unique characteristics within these different corridors.

When this study is done, I think it will become much more obvious which portions of the design guidelines overall really need to be updated.

And it just gives us all the information that we'll need to be able to make those changes and to address.

And if we need to have specific, if we need to add specific guidelines for specific quarters,

Gotcha.

Right.

Because there are certain softwares that we'd be using to kind of do that whole corridor and then the snapshots along the corridor.

So it would just be easier to do it in-house.

Just to add one thing to what Margaret was saying, I think this is an in-between step on doing a larger facelift on the entrance corridors that would require more time and resources.

But it's kind of that in-between step of acknowledging that Route 29 is not the same as Afton Mountain.

without getting into a public process that really is more appropriate with community input.

And because at that point you're looking at something that's a little more like designating character areas.

Yeah, so after this study phase is done, when we get to the step of actually updating the actual design guidelines, that will be a more involved process, public process board

Updates for changes to the design guidelines require not just A or B approval, but Board of Supervisors approval.

Okay, kudos on the format.

I echo my cohorts in saying, yeah, I think I love the format.

and then I don't know if we're ready to move on to the survey form but I think that's a good idea might really provide a good shorthand and a good way to expedite things be a good cue to folks to know what to look for and also let folks know when they need to add some something that's not you know been standardized before and the mapping needs you know I appreciate the request for clarity and so I think

I relied on the GIS for most of what I was doing.

Yeah, I think it's

right on with the survey and the mapping needs for me, especially having not done one of these yet.

I agree.

And, Dave, you made a great point, I think, to expedite this.

Before we had a schedule that took us, I don't know, out a year or so, that I think we could do a lot of this work and then

and have it come up on the agenda when it's in a much more completed form versus like the agenda item when the board member presents it is kind of at the beginning, I think this pushes us along further.

And just another kudos that I was kind of looking at this thinking if I'm an applicant and I think it's gonna be very helpful.

Yeah, I totally agree.

I think even if just purely as a reference material, even if it goes beyond that or not, it's going to be enormously helpful.

I think applicants and board members are going to be able to refer to each of these one pagers as kind of a point of reference for discussion, which, you know,

I guess my one question, and this is partly answered, I think, by the characteristics to avoid section.

But I guess my one thought in trying to collect this information is when we're photographing precedent buildings.

Like I could see a world where you want the precedent images to all reflect the things that are in conformance with the entrance corridor guidelines going forward.

And I could see a world where you're photographing examples of things which are not in conformance.

Or I can see one where you're sort of like

Purely providing significant structures within the corridor that, conforming or not, are just significant buildings on that segment.

I guess, is kind of the approach to just document the most significant structures, regardless of whether they're complying or not, and then documenting that there's certain things about them that we wouldn't want applicants to be repeating in the future?

That's a great question and it's one that we were kind of thinking about as well.

Because I guess I like the way that it's done here but I wouldn't want somebody to get the impression that because it's been shown on this page that they can use it as a as a precedent.

I think it's good to document that it exists but

Yeah, I think, yes, it's important to get the captions for those right so it's clear what's being shown and why.

And I think, I guess the images that we chose to include on this particular page,

Well, there aren't a whole lot to pick from for this segment, first of all.

But I think that we would probably be trying to show the range of what's out there.

We do have another sheet.

If we have more examples, if it's important to show more than what fits on this one page, we do have an option to do more.

I thought on this sheet at least the captions did a pretty good job of outlining some things that appeared in those photos that you wouldn't want to do without kind of overplaying it.

I just want to single out a property owner for having a particularly heinous property that nobody should

ever do that again.

Yeah.

That, you know, that and characteristics to avoid are the, you know, where you go to find that.

So folks won't be able to substitute dilapidated farm equipment in lieu of street trees.

As screening meet the screening requirements.

Yeah, I think we, you know, when we're talking with applicants, we often do

have applicants who come and say, well, this, you know, this is happening out here, you know, right next door, so why can't I do that?

So it is good to have that information available as well, you know, that is, you know, pre-entrance quarter or there's some other issue going on there and that's why that particular aspect of that development, we wouldn't want to emphasize or repeat.

So, yeah.

I think it would be harder on corridors where there is a lot of recent development that it was using this one-size-fits-all structure and maybe there are things that aren't compatible across the corridor but that one was allowed to develop in that way

I don't know if that's true, I don't have an example, but it might not be such a bad thing to catalog some of, to have three pictures to show a trend that this was adopted, or this was allowed in these years, but we're trying to go away from that.

Just some acknowledgement that it might exist, but we don't really want to have it continue.

And that way, in taking multiple pictures, you aren't singling out one person,

Right, exactly.

Yeah, I think that's a good point.

And just a full confession, I think while I drove the corridor a good deal for most of the images, I just drove through Google Earth and so for anybody that wants to be able to do it from their armchair,

So if you think about a quarter like 250, the number of buildings along that corridor, to Taro's point, one is, I guess, would we have, would we, yes, those that we think are the most

Compatible and the Least Compatible, would we show all of them and assess them on some sort of scale?

Yeah, I'm getting kind of like, I guess it sounds more like we would err on the side of collecting a lot on the front end.

And then maybe it would be easier to have a conversation like to Mariah's point of like, these are kind of all representative of a given thing that's going on.

Yeah, I think it's like a kind of a, when you start paring down and looking at images, you're able to see what is the most representative image and know that it's displayed on other buildings across the corridor.

There might be significant structures that are historical in nature anyway.

So I think it will flesh itself out, but there might be several corridors that go to a second sheet that's just images.

Yeah for a card or like 250 East I mean it seems like for internal discussion it would be better to get more information than less.

I think where there's a lot of buildings it might be helpful to get

most if not all the buildings that appear to be built post entrance corridor guidelines and then maybe a few examples of pre-corridor guideline buildings that either are significant for their goodness or badness.

All right, so moving forward with the un-surveyed carders.

I like that I'm not listed on any of these carders.

That's my first comment.

So in that regard, I really like that.

Approved.

Yeah, I guess I'm not being included either.

I wasn't sure if you all wanted to like reshuffle this whole map or do you just don't need someone to fill in those yellow chunks because I'm happy to volunteer.

I didn't know if other folks who were already assigned had thoughts about their assignments either.

I'd be happy to have a broader reassignment.

I remember I took over a few that are assigned to Frank Stoner, but I can't remember which ones, which I'll be looking through my email.

Some are going to be more complicated than others.

For example, 29 North and the John Warner Parkway.

And some folks have already done some, right?

Did you do Chris?

You did one or two, didn't you?

Yeah.

Yes, I definitely did 240.

And you already did all of yours.

That's right.

Yeah, so I think Fred made presentations on his and Frank, you presented 151 and 240.

So it may just be translating those.

I think 29 is kind of an interesting one, so I'd like to do one of those.

Let's see.

Is there anyone else who wants to drop one or switch one or something?

I'm happy to drop one of mine.

Stony Point Road.

Got a fair amount of new development.

And then Frank, if you want to draw up one of them, I can take one of those.

And Chris, I could probably take one of those off your hands too, the yellow ones found in three.

I think you might have taken some of the information and put it into a new format when that was already done.

Is that possible?

I have not done any yet.

You might want to take another one of Frank Stoner's.

Okay.

So it looks like we've got a couple of things moving around and the blank ones have been taken.

So I will update the list and I'll send that back out to everybody.

Thank you.

Oh yeah.

So Margaret, with the new format,

Your expectation that we will go out, do the survey work, send the stuff to you or Mariah, if you go into the form and then we would review it?

Now, I think this will be streamlined because you won't have to put it into a PowerPoint presentation.

We're going to try and get this checkbox survey form in a form that will be very usable for you.

So you'll be using those forms, whatever mapping you're able to put together.

You'll be working with those two things, plus images, however you're taking them, either from Street View or if you're actually taking photos.

Just putting that information together and then we'll sit down with you and talk through it.

And then we'll be drafting the text to go into the one page that we looked at today.

So we'll be skipping that PowerPoint presentation step

The sooner the better.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, I can't get them done this week, but I was hyped.

I was all excited.

No, I mean, I'm really glad that you all are liking the template.

I am glad it seems to be dynamic and fitting the different user groups and it can be viable for a good lifetime.

In terms of the process, we basically added in a step.

We took away a step and added a step.

You don't have to give a presentation.

but we still, there's still some value in distilling the information of what you saw so we're basically starting still with a long list and then with staff moving to a short list and then staff will convert over to the draft template.

The idea being you'll see completed sheets kind of along the way and at the end we'll have you know the stack and book of an update and it won't be one big document hitting everybody in the face.

Great.

Great.

Thank you.

All right.

So other business.

Would anyone like to make a motion to approve the May 16th minutes?

So moved.

All right, can I get a second from anyone?

Second.

All right, Mr. Stoner?

Aye.

All right, great, thank you.

The next ARB meeting is scheduled for Tuesday, June 21st, 2022.

This will be a virtual meeting.

Is there anyone who will not be present for that?

All right, so it seems like we will have a quorum.

Does anyone have any other items they would like to discuss?

All right, then the meeting is adjourned to the next meeting on Tuesday, June 21st.

Behind my head is 1.42 p.m.