Architectural Review Board Meeting   1/4/2021

Wonderful.

Well, Happy New Year everybody.

It's being one o'clock almost on January 4th.

We'll call to order the January 4th meeting of the Architectural Review Board of Albemarle County.

This meeting is being held pursuant to and in compliance with ordinance number 20-A16, an ordinance to ensure the continuity of government during the COVID disaster.

Quorum is present.

Members of the review board here electronically are myself, Dave Van Der Werf, Frank Stoner, Fred Missel, Frank Hancock, and Chris Henningsen.

There are opportunities for public access to this meeting, which are posted on the county's website of the county calendar.

The public has real-time audio visual access to this meeting over Zoom and real-time audio access over phone.

Both is provided in a lawfully posted meeting notice.

This meeting is being recorded and will be made available on the county's website.

This online meeting and any associated chats are a public record and are subject to disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act.

We have a number of applicants and attendees today.

Carolyn Shaffer, our reporting secretary, may need to contact you during this meeting.

So please check the chat box during the meeting and respond as necessary, which is out to you.

For all speakers, when it's your turn to speak,

Please state your name for the record.

And for everyone participating today, please keep your microphone muted except when you're speaking.

For applicants making presentations, we're limiting those to 15 minutes, which you can divide equally as you choose among your staff and among your members.

And Carolyn will listen.

So this is our first

Meeting of the Year.

It's our annual meeting and includes elections, adoption of the rules of procedure, and adoption of the meeting schedule.

Great.

So are there any other nominations?

So I guess we'll ask for a motion to close the nominations then.

And a second.

Second.

Aye.

Great, thank you.

We'll turn now to nominations for Vice Chair.

I'd be happy to nominate Fred, if I may.

I'll second.

Are there any other nominations?

Thank you all.

Sure, so the rules of procedure were included in your packets and hopefully everyone's had a chance to look at them.

There's only a couple of changes or items noted.

One change would be obviously to update the year, which I got wrong.

It's not 2020, it's 2021.

So we will make that change on page three under 3D.

I've discovered that there is a discrepancy in what's listed as time limits for applicants and other speakers.

The rules and procedures say 10 minutes.

Our policy has been 15 minutes.

So really this is the only thing I have for you.

Do you want to

I think 15 generally seems to be necessary for most applicants.

It's useful.

I don't know if others would disagree.

It looks like everyone's in agreement.

And then I guess the only other question is, did anyone have anything else that they felt needed to be changed in the rules?

So moved.

Mr. Stoner?

Aye.

Mr. Van Der Werf?

Aye.

And I'm sorry, I missed who seconded that motion.

Mr. Van Der Werf?

Great, thank you.

The schedule that we're asking you to adopt today is, as we discussed previously, it's maintaining the same schedule as we've done for the past many years.

ARB meeting days would be the first and third Monday of the month, beginning at 1 p.m. with a Monday meeting, moving to a Tuesday if the Monday's a holiday.

Mr. Van Der Werf?

Great.

We'll turn now to disclosures.

Actually, two items on the agenda are being presented by the firm that I'm a principal of.

So I'll be abstaining from those votes and probably just sitting out of the discussion just so it doesn't seem like I'm swaying in one way or another.

Thank you, Chris.

No, sir.

Thank you.

We have nothing on the consent agenda or for work session, so we'll turn to regular review items.

The two items

scheduled for today.

The first is ARB 2020-125, Scott Seidy Exxon.

The application I'm presenting on is a review of architectural and initial site plan to construct a 3200 square foot addition to an existing service station and to complete associated site improvements.

The site is located at 4260 Ivy Road on the north side of Route 250, approximately 265 feet east of the Route 250 and Ivy Depot Road intersection.

Certificates are appropriate as to where it previously issued for the existing fuel pump canopy and the refacing the pole mounted sign for the site.

Staff did have several comments on the site, but none of them were significant enough from keeping us from recommending approval of the initial site plan.

So I'm going to focus on the five points that were listed as the primary points of discussion in the staff report.

The design of the proposed addition significantly increases the mass of the building and is a utilitarian extension of the existing building.

The south-facing second story is a blank elevation.

The side elevations, while not completely blank,

The form is generic and has no architectural detailing that reflects the area's historic architecture.

The utilitarian materials, concrete block, and corrugated metal, though appropriate to the use and consistent with the west elevation of the building, which predates the entrance quarter, do not relieve the mass or scale.

The light paint color proposed emphasizes the blocky character of the addition and painting the red brick facade of the existing building removes a significant tie to the historic architecture of the county.

The metal canopies proposed above the existing storefront windows and bays are an appropriate addition that help enhance the human scale.

However, trimming the canopies in red and yellow stripes in addition to the light paint color and the blue band proposed on the building transforms the building into trademark architecture.

Maintaining the red brick facade and replacing the blue band and color stripes with architectural details could help reduce the visual impact of the addition and improve the form, scale, and connection to the historic architecture of the area.

Regarding the landscaping proposed for the site, the addition of the proposed planting islands along the frontage teleprovide space for the frontage landscaping to soften the appearance of the existing fuel pump canopy and fuel lane area and integrate the site into the surrounding area.

However, there are a couple minor issues with the landscaping proposed.

notably near the southwest corner of the site and the number in caliper and interior parking trees proposed.

Staff is recommending revising the landscape plan to show additional trees and shrubs consistent with the rest of the proposal at the southwest corner of the site and an additional interior parking tree and all interior parking trees at two and a half inch caliper at time planting.

Lastly, while signage is reviewed and approved with a separate application, the color renderings appear to show a long cabinet style sign added to the south elevation of the existing building.

This style sign is not appropriate for a wall sign in the entrance quarter.

Staff is recommending approval of the initial site plan with the recommendations listed in the staff report to be addressed with the final site plan.

Thank you very much, Chris.

Oh, sorry.

Frank Hancock?

No, I don't have any questions.

And Chris is abstaining, so we'll turn to the applicant's presentation.

So hi, I'm Scott Ram, the applicant.

Mark and Scott Collins were supposed to be here to be part of the meeting.

And as Scott Collins said, he was out of town and didn't know whether he would have internet capability where he was gonna be.

Things that need to be,

Bill Zapeermark and Scott have been able to call in.

They have?

Okay.

Sounds good.

Thank you guys very much.

I appreciate it.

On the review of the site aspects, elements of the project, I don't really think it had any real questions from staff, from Margaret.

I think she had an excellent staff report.

I think the site pretty well addresses most of the ARB concerns, and I don't have any issues with the comments.

that Margaret issued forth.

I think we probably want to spend most of the time talking about the building aspects of the project.

But while we're on the site, I would like to share one element.

We modified the location of the dumpster, and if you guys would let me, I'd like to show that for you guys and see if that location is still suitable with everybody.

Sorry, I'm looking for it.

It has started sharing, but the image is not here yet for me.

It's fairly similar, yes.

So that's the one we want to go with.

Thank you, Scott.

Good afternoon, everybody.

Happy New Year.

Thanks for your time today.

We're excited to get in front of you guys today and talk about this.

Our intent with the building architecture has moved around a bit.

And I think redeveloping the entire site has

forced us to be responsible with the dollars being spent on the building itself.

So we have attempted to get Scott Ram his needs of the four new bays while connecting to the existing building with some masonry that'll provide a fire separation between existing and new.

The intent of the paint scheme is to update the entire building and to give Scott and his presence there on 250 an updated look and feel.

And we can talk about the colors.

It's obviously the Napa brand colors.

The striping and branding is specific to Napa.

The canopy exists presently, which is a different brand.

That's an Exxon.

Brann.

We're not proposing to change that.

I know there was reference to that in the report, but the massing of the building is very simple.

We're not changing the massing of the existing building at all.

We're adding basically a box to the back and painting the scheme.

So

We feel that the landscaping and pretty much 100% redevelopment of the site is gonna be the focus.

And what you'll see when you drive by of the addition will be minimal.

Thank you, Mark.

Thank you.

We'll turn to questions then.

No, I don't think so at this time.

Thanks, Mark.

Appreciate the

presentation, and Scott as well.

Thank you, Frank.

Sure.

Thanks Mark and Scott for the presentation.

I guess just a quick question for Mark.

Are there any other exterior windows to the second story other than the ones on I guess the east and west elevation?

And then there's windows looking into the service bays.

That's correct.

There's a small second story over the masonry addition before you get into the metal part of the building, which is where the bays are.

Thank you.

Thank you, Frank.

Thank you, Dave.

Thanks, Scott.

Thanks, Mark.

Just a couple quick questions.

One is the height of the addition.

How is that determined?

Is there any flexibility in that?

So the height is based on getting a certain size vehicle, which is a little bit larger than Scott can currently work on now.

Some of these Sprinter vans that you see running around town are a little higher.

And to be able to work on some of these automobiles, we had to have a higher ceiling height.

Also, we're trying to keep the structure of the roof very simple.

So it's a sloped truss, monoslope truss, front to back.

But that's basically driving the height.

There's probably some flexibility.

OK, thanks.

It looks like from ARB 09, that sheet, it looks like it's rendered in brick, and it looks like it has a cornice across the top of some kind.

I'm just trying to figure out what that is.

Hello, everyone.

My name is Caleb Snyder.

I'm also with Henningsen Kessner.

Putting this together, the brick texture is incorrect.

Got it.

Okay.

Thank you.

Those are the only questions I had.

Thank you, Fred.

And thank you, Scott, Mark and Scott, for your presentation.

I'm sorry.

Oh, East End of Indian Area.

We were trying to keep that area sort of clear for traffic movement.

That's kind of the one main entrance into the site, and there's a lot of moving parts at that location.

And we wanted to make sure the turning radius in that location were wide enough.

for cars turning in, going to the pumps, cars going to the auto repair service area, and then also cars that are coming in, making that turn, sort of that wide turn to go to the properties just east of the site with services, a water treatment facility for Almore County, as long as a adjacent property owner.

Those occurred before folks get past the vending area?

I guess the access to the water maintenance and things is before that passage, right?

Oh, yes.

So there's also large vehicles and tractor trailers that have to come through there.

The fuel delivery truck, as well as the county, has tractor trailers that go to both places.

And then we have large pickups and work trucks that come in with utility trailers that go around the building also.

So having that as wide as possible would be very helpful.

Okay, thank you.

We have considered a number of different materials and including masonry.

We are where we are currently based on

Okay, thank you.

I don't think I have any further questions.

I guess why don't we enter discussion.

Thanks, Dave.

I think there's a lot of good things happening here.

I think the island is a major improvement in the front of the site.

I don't have major concerns about the massing of the addition or the landscaping.

I think my only concern is over the color scheme.

And it sounds like they're open to maybe exploring some other options there.

I actually like the idea of painted brick and kind of unifying whatever it ends up being, kind of making it a more unified structure as opposed to keeping the brick in front and then putting block and painted block in the rear, which I don't think would look good.

So I think if they're open to exploring maybe some other paint options,

or combinations, I think the colors are very bright and maybe could be toned down.

I understand and respect the desire maybe for a more trademarked look to the building, which I don't necessarily see as a negative, but again, just had some concerns over the actual colors.

Thank you.

Yes, I agree with Frank Stoner.

I think the site plan is nice.

Definitely organizes the site and kind of cleans things up a bit.

So I appreciate that and don't have anything to add to this staff report or to the comments in the staff report.

I agree with the color comment about on the building.

I think maybe there is some

It's maybe the rendering that's reading a certain way.

I know it's really early, kind of schematic level.

But I think if you start to add some of the detail, I know like the bronze cap at the back of the edition, I think that's called out, isn't really shown in the rendering.

But my one thought is that south facade, if you could do some things to add some interest there and kind of relieve some of the blankness

That was really what my question was about.

Is there any way to add some fenestration on that elevation?

Thank you, Frank.

Thanks, Dave.

So I agree with what's already been said.

I think it does clean up the site a great deal.

My areas of, I don't know,

My concern really, but focus are number one, what's been said, which is colors and by colors, I think we're talking about just the color on the building, right?

Because the canopy exists.

So it's really just that blue, essentially.

And I don't know whether that means, you know, there's an approved blue in in Albemarle County that could be considered or

You know, how you look at that or if it becomes more of a just a tan that blends in, but I'll just that's not up to me.

The one thing that that is a bit of a concern or focus is something that Dave brought up, which is that 38 foot travelway and the height of the building.

Those are kind of two thoughts.

So if the height can be mitigated and can be reduced, that would be, I think, a win.

Even if you can get six inches out of it, whatever can help to reduce the scale of that I think would be helpful.

One thing that doesn't show up, I think, real clearly in the renderings is the view that you'll actually have westbound

through that 38 foot slot at the rear side of the building.

I think that's going to be full on and very visible.

So, you know, it doesn't look like there's any landscape to break that up between there and the viewshed.

And my only thought was, is there a way that that 38 feet can be reduced?

Again, even just a little bit to try to help with that, because I think that's where the primary view is going to be.

And then related to that, if that can't happen,

If it's one way out and it's 28 feet on the west side, is there a way that could be reduced a little bit too?

And maybe not, but just throw that out there to help sort of add a little bit more landscape area and a little bit less pavement.

Thank you very much, Fred.

And I've shared very much my fellow board members' observations.

I think that the overall planting and landscaping will be an improvement.

I think, as Fred said, if there's a way to reduce the travel lanes and still meet obviously the vehicular needs, I think that might allow even greater improvement in that landscaping.

I think like Frank and others concerned about the color and I appreciate the applicant's willingness maybe to consider alternative approaches to the palette.

I think I understand, as Frank said, the impulse to sort of unify the building and bring it together, although I wonder if there's not an opportunity to create some slight separation and subtle distinction between the two pieces so that the

The historic development of the site and the presence of the original IDX on building can still read.

I think there might be some opportunity there to create some richness.

And I do think from looking at the corridor more extensively recently that there are some examples of painted brick, probably just because of how they've been maintained.

They are now quite weathered.

And I think that's maybe more contextual if you do go with a painted brick to the left, an approach that has more texture and weathering to it.

But also, I think most buildings

seem to be somewhat recessive in terms of how they sit in the landscape.

And so the bright white, I agree, I think is a little jarring.

So either looking at natural or other more subdued tones might be a way to try to help the building sit more subtly in its context.

Let's see.

And then again, I understand the firewall and the limitations that makes on opening sizes, but to the extent some relief and articulation of that wall, I think at the south may further help tie it in.

Thank you again for the proposal.

Yes.

So just as a reminder, this is an initial site plan.

So the recommendation is for approval of the initial plan.

And then

Well, I was looking at number four, that kind of, you know,

highlights the need to really understand the views from those areas.

Great.

Is there anything in there that mentions to consider reduction in the height of the addition?

Yes, that's a good addition too.

I think so, yes.

That would be great, Margaret.

Great, any other elements of the comments that folks would like to see reflected?

Did not figure out how to get rid of that call.

Let me stop sharing and re-share.

Sorry about that.

I don't know how to stop that completely.

I guess item two or three.

I don't know if folks want to add anything.

I mean, personally, I think either retaining a natural brick and or using a natural tone

CMU would likely be more appropriate than the paint.

If painted, I think a weathered approach to painting that has more texture would be more appropriate.

I would agree.

And in terms of the dumpster, it's in my mind's eye.

I would agree that I think the location that's shown in the architectural renderings is more appropriate than the one that was shown in the site plan.

Great.

Any further revisions?

Do we need a motion on the initial site plan?

I'll move that we forward the recommendation outlined in the staff report to the agent of the site.

It is amended as follows.

Item number three, add the sentence, the location shown in the architectural renderings is more appropriate than the one in the site plan.

Item four, add the sentence, reduce width of travelways as much as possible to reduce visibility of the addition from the entrance corridor.

And add number 15 to say, consider a reduction in the height of the addition as well as fenestration or other detailing to the south

All right.

Thank you, Carolyn.

Thank you all.

Thank you to the applicant.

So our next item is ARB 2020-127, Wawa at Prophet Road Amendment.

A letter of revision to the ARB approved site plan has been submitted for the Wawa under construction at Route 29 and Prophet Road intersection.

The following changes were requested to accommodate Tesla charging stations and related mechanical equipment.

Adding eight charging stations along the road parking adjacent to Prophet Road, installing related mechanical equipment on the south side of the dumpster enclosure, and potentially painting equipment to match the brick of the enclosure.

and adding two Dominion Power transformers directly west of the road parking adjacent to Proffit Road.

The amendment also calls for the relocation of landscaping.

This includes shifting a number of the trees and shrubs south of the fuel pump canopy to the west and relocating one ornamental tree and three shrubs originally proposed along the road parking and dumpster enclosure adjacent to Proffit Road to the revised planting area near the southwest corner of the site.

The amendment also includes a two-foot retaining wall that wraps around the south and west ends of the transformers to accommodate the proposed grading change.

Staff notes the following factors to be considered.

The height, approximately five and a half feet, and white color of the proposed charging stations will tend to make them more visible in the site.

The equipment attached to the dumpster enclosure is relatively small, located approximately 305 feet from the entrance quarter, and if painted to match the enclosure is expected to have a minimum visible impact.

The shifting the landscaping south of the fuel pump canopy to the west results in a larger gap, approximately 135 feet between the large trees along Proffit Road and the tight spacing of the trees near the southwest corner of the site.

The review of the Wawa proposal generated considerable discussion about the visibility, equipment, and landscaping in general appearance.

So we're looking for direction on how to deal with the requested revisions to the site plan.

Thank you very much, Chris.

I believe to Fred.

Thank you.

Thank you, Frank Hancock.

Thanks, Chris.

Just one question about the elevation of the parking area relative to 29, where the Tesla charging stations are proposed to be located.

That's great.

Thank you, Chris.

Two and four, okay.

And thank you for highlighting the discussion.

My recollection was that

In terms of that planting, there was already some discussion of a little bit of relief in the requirements because of coordination with utilities.

It was at least along Proffitt Road originally approved at approximately 103 feet.

Great.

Thank you.

Well, let's see.

Do we have a presentation from the applicant?

Sorry, this is Jonathan Ritchie with Bowler Engineering.

Yes, this is Jonathan Richard, Bowler Engineering, representing Tesla and Wawa in this scenario.

So I'm certainly here to answer any questions that you may have.

All right, well, are there any questions for the applicant?

No, I don't have any questions.

Thanks.

Just maybe remind us, and it's tough to tell with the landscape plan, there's a lot of utilities in that zone.

I apologize if I missed my opportunity to give the kind of little introduction, but one of the things that we're really fighting in this case here is it wasn't in the original site plan because it wasn't constructed at the time, but the City of Charlottesville constructed a gas line

behind the curb that runs effectively along Proffit Road.

It is shown in the site plans that we've provided to the county and the ARB.

So what we're dealing with is trying to, we have to stay at least four feet off that gas line.

We've coordinated extensively with the city regarding that.

And we've really maxed out of where we can place

Landscaping in that, I think staff report says 135 feet, I was getting closer to 100 through there.

When we went into this, our intent was let's not lose any landscaping.

Where can we find places to put it?

So that was our intent that we came in with.

We kept the exact same amount of landscaping that was approved originally with the site plan, and we tried to find spots for it.

You can see that it's difficult, and we kind of ran out of space to do that, but we are

Thank you.

That's helpful.

Thank you, Fred.

No questions.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Well, Jonathan, I guess one question is in terms of the choice of where to locate the Tesla chargers and spaces, is there a particular reason that these southern spaces are preferred?

So they do, there's a couple things there.

They do, they are accessible, ADA accessible, so that area has an accessible path to the building.

Putting it behind the building, technically, you know, you're supposed to have a direct path to the building or to the entrance.

and if you put those there, we would have grading difficulties and they're physically located further away from the entrance to the building.

Secondly, we do like to put them kind of in with the air stations as well.

So we thought that area would be a good spot.

Also going back to the east side,

Not sure if you have in front of you, but there's a retaining wall that drops down and the physical space between where that retaining wall is and the curb is actually even less than what we're dealing with now.

So we're not sure the infrastructure will even fit for Tesla.

So kind of all those factors.

are why those are placed there.

Obviously, they're not going to put them right in the front of the building because there is a time component to charging the vehicles.

Thank you for that explanation.

That's a back of house.

So that's maintenance and loading zone and stuff like that.

OK.

Thank you.

I will add one thing, too, just to what Mr. Stoner was saying there was if you look at the grade differential, and I know we kind of went through a lot of this in the original ARB stuff, if you look at the grade differential, certainly from the intersection of Proffit and 29, you're not going to see these.

They're physically 10 feet lower.

And then when you add landscaping, shrubbery, you're not going to see them.

As you go down Proffit, you might get a glimpse of them, one of the last two ones.

Thank you, Jonathan.

And you mentioned you may have missed your presentation opportunity for it.

No, I was able to.

I think the big thing I wanted to explain with what Mr. Hancock said there was

Let you guys know there is this new gas line behind there that's restricting it.

And then also kind of mentioned the gray differential.

Thank you very much.

Carolyn, are there any members of the public wishing to comment?

No, sir, there isn't.

OK, thank you.

We'll turn to discussion.

I don't have any issues with this.

I think it's going to be minimally visible.

The initial concern I had was the view of the transformers, but I think that's going to be mitigated by all of the other things in front of it.

I agree.

I just have one comment.

I think maybe consider a different shrub species, an evergreen, that I think behind the charging stations, between the charging stations and Prophet Road, it's a winter berry holly.

That's a deciduous holly.

But I mean, I think it's helpful that those are down the hill, but

Thank you, Frank.

Thanks, Dade.

I would agree with both of my colleagues.

I don't have any heartburn over the proposal in general.

I think the grades are such even a long profit that they're not going to be highly noticeable.

But I do agree with Frank Hancock.

I think if you could, I think an evergreen shrub would help just make up the shroud that two, you know, two and a half feet of the charging stations that would be visible.

Thank you, Frank.

Yeah, I am fully in agreement also.

I don't have a problem with the addition.

I particularly have a lowered position of it in relation to the corridor and Proffit Road.

I don't think it's going to be visible.

The one just not even concern I had was the talking about the equipment that's going up against the wall.

It's been said that that could be painted to match the wall color.

I think if you actually did paint it to match the wall color, that would be good.

Thank you, Chris.

And Chris Taggart, I realized one question I forgot to ask you.

Proffit Road is not currently an entrance call, correct?

Yeah, okay, thank you.

No, I agree with my colleagues.

Other screening in the grade will effectively limit the impact of this on the designated entrance corridor.

I do think if Proffit Road were an entrance corridor, we might need to revisit these more closely in the same way we have been with vacuum equipment and other things going close to the roadway.

But in this instance, I agree it's appropriate.

Sounds like everyone is in agreement with what's proposed.

One possible comment or condition would be to definitely paint the equipment that's being attached to the dumpster screen.

I'm not sure if everyone is supporting that.

If that was something everyone wanted, then we could add that as a condition.

Otherwise, it sounds like just need a motion.

I would as well.

That's another good one.

Yes.

Yeah.

So I've added two conditions of approval.

Thank you, Margaret.

I'll move to approve the proposed amendment with the following conditions.

Item one, paint the equipment attached to the dumpster wall to match the dumpster wall.

Mr. Hancock?

Aye.

Mr. Henningsen?

Aye.

Mr. Van Der Werf?

Aye.

Thank you all very much.

I will move now to other business.

We have two other business items scheduled for today.

Margaret Maliszewski will be presenting.

Yep.

So the sleep number development that's proposed for the east side of the Route 29 entrance corridor just south of the Fashion Square Mall, it received our final approval on November 30th of last year.

Approved materials included master wall stucco wall panels in a tan color, wood tone lap siding in summer wheat, and metal wall panels in a dark blue.

The applicant has proposed a change to replace the blue metal panels with additional master wall stucco panels in the same shade of blue.

The metal panels and what would be the additional stucco are the areas that appear as dark blue or maybe even almost black depending on your monitor in these perspective images.

I'll just run through a few of them for you.

And so the dark

Blue color is what was proposed as metal.

The brown color is the wood siding and the lighter tan color is what was originally proposed of the stucco panels.

So replacing the metal with stucco makes stucco and glass the primary materials on the entrance quarter elevation.

and on the south elevation.

And it makes stucco the primary material on the north elevation.

PFAS and similar stucco type products have typically not been considered as appropriate as the primary building material for buildings that are readily visible from the entrance corridor.

So staff wasn't comfortable approving this change.

We didn't feel it was consistent with the guidelines or with past practice and

We're concerned about establishing inappropriate precedents.

Thank you, Margaret.

My sound cut out.

I guess the only question I have, and I'm trying to pull the images back up on my... You mentioned that they all show up as black on both of my monitors, so I'm trying to really track what's changing.

Let me try and jump ahead.

Can you see my screen again?

OK. And certainly can correct me if I'm wrong.

What I've done in this very rough sketch, and I apologize for the roughness of it, but the light blue was the originally proposed stucco, and the dark blue was the metal panels that would now switch to blue stucco.

So this is the entrance quarter elevation.

This is the south elevation.

and the North elevation.

Yeah, that does.

That helps a lot.

Thank you.

That's my only question.

Thank you.

Thank you, Fred.

No questions for staff.

Thank you, Margaret.

I don't have any questions either.

Thank you.

Margaret, I guess, do I recall correctly, not for this site specifically, but when we were looking at guidelines for a small area plan at 29, I recall that material quality did come up as an item for that.

And as I recall, vaguely, it was the consensus last year, at least for that area, that

at Ethos and Stockholm were not suitable primary building materials.

OK.

Thank you very much.

Great.

Thank you again.

So the reason for the material change, there are no surprises.

We've hit some bumps here with pricing.

And due to COVID, we priced this building out pre-COVID.

And then we went through the site plan ARB process.

And so the actual numbers came back.

And the metal panels turned out to be extremely expensive.

So our goal from our office was to advocate to keep the massing, keep the lion's ear, the materials, the architectural intent of the building exactly the same down to the articulation of the joints.

So our proposal is to switch from the metal panel to a stucco finish, but for all intents,

The building architecture has remained the same and I think the blending of the glass, the wood tones, and the stucco will have the same ending result as the previously approved submission.

And I don't know how I understand the comment about the

The majority or the main material, if you will, it's hard for us to kind of calculate what that is.

There's a blend of materials here and I don't know that, you know, the glass is probably the main, you know, the most coverage on the front elevation facing Route 29, but we're asking for some relief here to help

helped move this project forward.

We worked really hard with the developer and the contractors to keep the building intact as much as possible.

Thank you, Mark.

Any other items you'd like to present?

Thank you.

Just curious, Mark, did you consider this material change on, it looks like the rear elevation has a lot of the stucco.

You know, there's a couple sides of this building that really are areas of this building that won't be that visible from the corridor.

So we don't have any

on the rear elevation proper that faces the hillside.

There's a very small amount of this material, which we did change, but for the most part, the rear elevation has a tan stucco that was previously approved.

The fin and the piece that wraps over top of the roof would be changed to the new material.

Yeah, it does.

And I should have looked a little closer to see which color that was, but thank you.

I guess you see what I'm getting at.

Thank you, Frank.

Mark, I'm just trying to reconcile the draw, the architectural drawings with the rendering

and I guess I'm not completely sure.

I understand as you go migrate from metal to stucco, for example, with the canopy overhangs, which appear to wrap the building on all, at least on three sides.

The edge of the canopy would be dark blue.

Hi there, Caleb Snyder again.

The underside we've sourced as, I believe it's, we've been saying that it's hardy soffit panels in the summer week color.

So the same color that you see as the,

It's not, I don't believe it's very clear in the renderings.

Yeah, I'm just looking through the renderings now.

Well, you're saying it's 14, 13?

14 or 16.

Yeah, you can't really, yeah, you can see a little bit, I guess.

Okay, I think that's all the questions I have.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Yeah, just one thing I'll mention, and I totally get it, coming from where you guys are coming from in terms of costs, things are absolutely crazy right now, so I completely understand.

I think the balance, you know, the challenge is always what Margaret sort of alluded to, which is setting precedent, right, and you don't want to

I mean, this has always been the issue on the ARB is how do you balance somebody's obvious budget, which is really not our problem, as you know, with the idea of the aesthetic and the entrance corridor.

So that said, first of all, my question earlier was going to be about the joints.

If you maintain the joints, and it sounds like you are, and you're maintaining the architectural integrity, which is great,

The one thing that stood out to me, and maybe this is just me, and Frank, you were touching on it, the horizontal face of each of the canopies, that long kind of horizontal strip, narrow strip, feels odd to me as stucco.

It feels like it would make more sense as metal.

And I'm wondering if you could do something with those horizontal bands

that differentiated them from the vertical tower pieces that could go to Ethos or Stucco.

And I'm trying to think of a way that you can kind of meet budget requirements, but also maintain some of the aesthetic integrity to help with longer term precedent issues.

So I guess that's a question.

Had you thought about considering something different there or

Yeah, sorry to jump back in.

You've hit on kind of my concern.

And I would, I guess, have one follow up question as it relates to those horizontal bands because there's

I think there's flashing that comes down over the top of that horizontal band, which is in like a dark bronze maybe?

Is that?

Yes, that's correct.

That's correct.

Yeah.

It is, oh dear, it's in front of my computer, 10 inches.

Fred, I think you summed it up well.

I think we're all observing lots of volatility in the market.

But to your point, and Margaret's about precedent, trying to figure out how to weigh

the right balance, and I appreciate all of your remarks about, you know, are there other ways to adjust the mix and the blends, you know, so you could still respect the budget.

Certainly appreciate the effort that I know you've put into maintaining the architectural intent, but are there some further sort of adjustments in the blend that might allow you to retain some more, either metal panel or other slightly more refined material on the EC side, perhaps on the great gateway frame around the corner,

and the horizontal elements and preserve more of that quality facing the EC.

So we did consider a number of different materials.

We looked at the entire building.

We looked at CMU, we looked at split phase, we looked at Hardy, we looked at a number of different opportunities.

And what we realized was that in order to sort of preserve 90% of the building as we had it, the best

The solution that we could come up with was to swap the metal panel for what we, I mean, we think stucco is a very nice and lasting material.

It's, in our opinion, is not a, you know, we're trading one 50-year material for another 50-year material.

One just costs less than the other.

The other thing that I forgot to mention, and I don't know if this came through in the proposal, and I don't know if this matters or not, the finish of the texture of the two stuccos will be different.

The tan is a little bit more of a rough textured finish, and the dark blue will be a very fine sand.

So the goal is still to have

the building reed with glass, the wood, a tan stucco element, and a blue stucco element, which we intend to have a little bit more refined finish to it.

And I don't know, it's a tough spot because I don't, I'm with you guys.

I don't want to set a bad precedent, but at the same time, I think that

Stucco is a very reasonable material and a long lasting material if it is applied correctly and flashed correctly and we've gone to great lengths.

We haven't shown you our construction details which we've worked on parallel to this exercise in

Hoping that you guys would give us a nod today.

Thank you, Mark.

Any other questions for the applicant?

Thank you.

We'll move into discussion.

I always hate going first.

So, I mean, I don't know what other things I could share other than what I've mentioned.

You know, I would want to be convinced and Mark, you know, I understand the applicants

Comments about trading out one 50 year material for another 50 year material.

I've also done plenty of buildings in this kind of stucco that don't look great after 15 or 20 years.

So I think it's kind of a trade off, but maybe they're just not well maintained.

So, you know, I would sort of still like to understand more if there is an option about

Creating some of the pieces out of a vertical, something different, especially with what Frank Stoner mentioned, which is, and the clarification we got from Caleb, you know, the really two thirds are going to be the blue and the rest of the third is going to be a brown flashing piece.

So it'll be narrower anyway.

So maybe it's not an issue.

I'm rambling because I'm not sure I have an answer.

What I would want to do just so I could sleep at night personally is to be able to look at this and say, yeah, this works.

I don't care if the stucco costs 15 times more than the metal panels, right?

It shouldn't be about money.

It should be more about whether this works aesthetically and architecturally.

So I would want to get to a point where I was convinced that was the case.

And, you know, I also am

humbled by the experts in front of me, so I would defer to many of them.

Thank you, Fred.

I was hoping I'd be the second Frank to go, Dave.

Yeah, I agree with my colleagues.

I think, you know, it's such a, maybe the way to think about it is forget about what was approved and just think about what's in front of us.

You know, and is the integrity there?

Is it still appropriate?

Or is there, you know, to me, I kept thinking, well, is it just we're a work session away from exploring a few options and

You know, maybe it's, there's another alternative that we all say, we're all aghast and we, man, that was really good how you had it before.

You know, so I'm hesitant to say this is appropriate as it is now, but I don't, maybe there's some questions that we've raised today.

If they were answered, we could move forward or I could feel good about that, but I don't know if that's helpful at all.

So one thing that I feel I should say when we're talking, and I agree that money is sort of different in the aesthetics, but for one thing, and I believe someone mentioned this and I can't remember who, but the division of the panels themselves was a large part in the visual design of

I guess the window placement, the window organization and layout and rhythm of everything, it all meshes and seems together very well mathematically with the panel sizes.

So that's why we went with ACM panels in the beginning because we thought that one, the material would be appropriate with the divisions that we have in the elevations.

However, married to the cost part of it, ACM panels are, and I'm sure I'm not

saying anything new to anyone here, but ACM panels over specific sizes by manufacturers are significantly cost prohibitive, especially when they come in custom colors as well.

So not saying that that's an excuse for anything that we've done, but that is a significant reason why, along with other material explorations that we've done with fiber cement and Nijiha and everything else that we've done,

This material is one of the biggest reasons why we can keep our panel rhythm and size.

Stucco allows us to keep that division that we were going for with the metal panel.

And the thinness, to keep going on that, and I'll stop talking quickly, the thinness of the panel of that canopy along the side, the 10-inch

Height of it is fine, but again, it comes down to, I think, anywhere from 48 to 52 inches lengths that would be more difficult to manufacture.

Thank you for that additional perspective.

I'll echo my colleagues.

Am I muted?

No.

Let me hear you.

Sorry.

I understand the cost issues and I'm sensitive to those and I think the stucco panels work fine on the verticals.

I continue to have some concern about the narrow horizontals and how those actually get executed and maybe once stucco details are there it'll be easier to understand that but it's because I think about that horizontal band and how those joints actually carry around the bottom of that horizontal and how does the stucco terminate up into the roof panel or the ceiling panel

All that kind of, you know, I guess makes me somewhat hesitant to just jump in and say, yeah, this looks, this will work great.

On the other hand, I think the overall architectural feel of the building is good.

I, interestingly, in the rendered versions of this, the sleep number logo shows up, and I believe that the correct blue

I'm, as I look at the building, I actually like the black.

I worry about what that looks like if all this becomes blue, everything that shows up as black becomes blue.

Again, it'd be nice maybe to see it accurately rendered, the color accurately rendered and some of those stucco details.

We were anticipating those to be a bronze color as well.

I see.

Yeah, so it'd be helpful to see a rendering that was a little more accurate.

But I'm certainly sensitive to the cost issues of the metal panel system.

And I think it behooves us to work with you guys to find a solution.

Yeah, I'm not quite sure what that is.

Thank you, Frank.

Thank you for all my colleagues' remarks.

I think, like my fellow board members, I think I'm concerned about the precedent and

Well I would agree that Stucco and Handelwell can be a good building material frequently.

It's not and I think all the projects in the entrance corridors face budgetary issues and we certainly want to encourage high quality construction materials throughout and so we want to be sure we don't lower the bar.

I do think that your insistence on keeping the jointing pattern helps mitigate one of the

Big concerns with stucco normally is that it can be pretty scaleless without articulation.

And so that probably for me could be a mitigating factor in this.

Although I think like Frank Stoner and others, I am concerned about how the horizontals and solvents can resolve effectively in this material.

I wonder like Frank Hancock, if perhaps a work session may be helpful or alternatively,

helped me sleep as well at night as Fred.

Some more reassurance through clearer renderings, maybe that can better articulate and express what we are contemplating approving would be helpful.

Similarly, if there's an opportunity to explore retaining some of the metal panel at the horizontals and perhaps at some of the more significant vertical elements, that may be another way to preserve more of the character on the entrance corridor,

I don't know if at the moment it feels like there's a proposal or an easily articulated alternative to approve.

I'd say any other comments from the fellow board members before we review the staff recommendations?

Margaret, I guess in terms of possible motions, you had noted approval of the proposal submitted or with revision, so I guess there are

So I've just been typing out these comments as I've been hearing them.

Let me just run through this and make this accurate or if you want to make revisions.

It sounds like we have a few comments to provide the applicant for another submittal, which could be reviewed in a work session.

And those comments are number one, consider further adjustments in the blend of materials to retain more metal or incorporate another more refined material.

at the corner and at the horizontal elements and possibly some of the vertical elements.

Two, provide stucco details showing how the stucco will be a long lasting material.

Thank you, Margaret.

I think you captured a lot of the key points very well.

Well, do we have a motion?

I don't know if that saves any work or not.

What's our motion?

I'm sorry.

Okay.

I'll read them in.

I move to provide the following comments to the applicants next submittal, which can be reviewed in a work session.

Number one, consider further adjustments in the blend of materials to retain more metal or incorporate another more refined material at the corner and at the horizontal elements and possibly some of the vertical elements.

Provide stucco.

Number two, provide stucco details showing how the stucco will be long lasting material.

Thank you, Fred.

I'll second.

Mr. Hancock?

Aye.

Mr. Missel?

Aye.

Great.

Thank you all, and thank you to the African.

Click presentation.

Do you see my PowerPoint slide?

Great, okay.

So as you know, as we've discussed previously, some of the streets that are currently listed in our ordinance as entrance quarter streets do not have the arterial designation that's required by state code to be an entrance quarter.

This slide shows on the right side a list of the non-arterial streets and those are shown on the left side in red.

So in the past several months, we've done some research and some coordination and we've considered a variety of factors.

We've looked at things like the number of ARB applications that are received on these various streets, the visual characteristics of the streets.

Is it primarily commercial development?

Is it rural?

Is it scenic?

Is it historic?

We've considered the previous county's scenic highway designation.

We've talked to a representative from VDOT,

We've looked at comp plan recommendations.

So after all this now we are ready and want to present to you today staff's recommendations for dealing with these non arterial streets and segments.

So for four of the non arterial streets, we are recommending that they be upgraded to arterial status.

Those are the ones that are circled in green in this slide and may include the full length of Avon Street extended,

Barracks Road from the city limits to Georgetown Road, Thomas Jefferson Parkway, Route 53 for the full length, and Richmond Road, Route 250 East from Route 22 to the county line.

We are also recommending that the county consider reestablishing a county scenic highway designation.

That would be for the streets that are shown circled in brown in this slide.

They include Barracks Road beyond Georgetown Road, the full length of Route 6, Louisa Road, Route 22 from Route 20, excuse me, Route, too many twos, Route 22 from Route 231 to the county line, Stony Point Road, which is Route 20, that would be north of Proffit Road to the county line,

and you also have Route 53 in this list as well.

It would be a recommendation for the full length if arterial status is not achieved.

And finally, we would be recommending that the county consider historic district designation for Route 53 if the arterial status is not achieved.

So we will be presenting these recommendations to the Board of Supervisors on February 3rd

We'll be requesting a resolution of intent to request the arterial designations that we've outlined and we'll request direction on the scenic highway and historic district designations.

So today what we'd like is your comments on those recommendations.

Do you support them?

Do you have alternate recommendations?

Do you have concerns, comments, suggestions, anything, any comments you'd like to provide?

We're happy to carry those along to the Board of Supervisors in February.

This is a list of the recommendations that I just went through.

I can leave these on the screen while we talk or pull up some other image if you like.

Wonderful.

Thank you, Margaret, and very nice presentation.

Yeah, I just want a couple of big

Picture questions, more minor questions.

In terms of the process, I remember, you know, this, this has been something that gets revisited right over every year or so.

And I remember in the past, there's been there was maybe some concern by landowners that adjoined these roadways that if

These were reclassified, if that's the right term, that it would result in a higher level of scrutiny and process.

Well, this would be going to the board in February, and so that public meeting would be an opportunity for everyone to listen and to comment.

Really, in February, we're asking the board for direction on how to proceed.

So the arterial designation process,

like a six or seven step process with VDOT and FHWA and for one of these streets or segments to become an arterial it would have to meet all of those standards and VDOT

reviews those streets for their functional classification regularly.

So I'm not sure exactly when the next regular cycle would be, but this would be a request that we would put in and it would just have to, if they decide to do it, it follows those standard procedures.

If the board

wants us to start to consider the county scenic highway designation and the historic district designation.

That is a multi-step process that would have public hearings.

We're not ready to jump into that yet.

Got it.

OK, that's helpful.

Thank you.

And then just one out of curiosity, since admittedly it's relatively close to home for me, Route 631 didn't end up being designated as a scenic highway or recommended as a scenic highway.

You know, let me look back at that.

I don't have the big table where we had everything all scribbled in and all the items that we were looking at.

Let me double check that and see if I might have just missed that.

OK.

I'm happy to.

Thanks.

No problem.

That's it for me.

Yeah.

Thank you, Fred.

Thanks, Margaret.

This is great.

Great visuals.

We don't know the answer to that yet since we don't have those regulations in place.

The process for reviewing any sort of development along that type of corridor, that's one of the things that we would have to be considering.

researching, looking into revising the ordinance to address that.

So there would be somebody, presumably, that would have a review of some aspect of development in those areas.

OK.

Thank you.

No more questions.

Thank you, Frank.

Margaret, do we know whether the four roads that we intend to pursue arterial status for actually qualify under VDOT's guidelines already?

We have preliminary discussions with VDOT and

Those discussions suggest that VDOT is in agreement with our recommendations on Avon Street, Barracks Road, and 250 East.

They're not quite so sure about Route 53, but just given the fact that some of our primary historic resources are along Route 53 and because the

The basis of the enabling legislation is the historic character.

And I guess on corridors, which are primarily residential in character, that are shown on here.

So that's probably Route 20, North 53, any of these areas that further out in the county you get.

Would this designation require residential properties?

We have had no discussion suggesting that the entrance corridor regulations would be increased for the new designations.

So the individual... No residential review.

Okay, thanks.

Thank you, Frank.

Yeah, well, just more of a clarification.

All of these roads are currently designated by the county as entrance corridors.

Is that correct?

So this is more, and that was kind of my understanding.

So the requirements for review are there now.

We're just getting our ducks in a row as far as, you know, the state in terms of the arterial status.

So I just wanted to make sure this wasn't,

you know, increasing a requirement for review that wasn't there now.

Margaret, I guess just to clarify, my understanding is that if the state in this case doesn't approve it as it was not an approved entrance quarter

under state guidelines, then the county can enforce entrance quarter guidelines under county regulations, something that affects, is that?

Right, we have not been applying entrance quarter regulations to be

Streets are the segments that are in red in that slide since we discovered the error.

It's just they're still listed in the ordinance.

And so we have to go through a process to.

The board, we believe the board wants us to pursue these options for dealing with the various corridors, and once we figure out what the answers are, then we need to go back and

Great.

Thank you for that clarification, Margaret.

And thank you also for a better understanding of what process might be involved in steps after any kind of action by us today, as well as the open nature of what County Scenic Highway and Historic District designation might mean for our or some other body's enforcement.

Thank you.

We can go into discussion.

Thanks.

I don't have anything to add.

Thank you, Fred.

I agree with Fred.

Staff has done all the heavy lifting.

No, I'm also in agreement.

I guess the only comment I would make is that if we don't, some of these quarters don't really have any or have very little commercial development upon them on them.

I just wonder whether it's worth the effort to

to pursue this designation.

I don't know exactly what's involved once you get into VDOT, but it seems to me I'd be uncomfortable approving all these, not that we even have the opportunity to do so, but I'd be more inclined to focus on areas that we think are especially relevant, and we're gonna probably identify those through this process that we're about to go through.

If it's not a quarter where we're likely to have any activity or very little activity, then I'm not sure, certainly the scenic designation has other regulations perhaps attached to it.

I guess I do have some anxiety over Avon Street.

I don't think it's a major arterial

And it's a road that already has a fairly industrial character.

And so I worry we don't there aren't many places anymore in the county where you can actually build something that's, you know, a king of a warehouse or or a purely functional structure.

And Avon is kind of already serves that purpose.

So I

I'm probably less comfortable with that as an ARB corridor.

The, you know, 53 certainly has major value as a scenic corridor, but again, I'm not sure there's enough happening on it, along it, other than the stuff that's already there that's not likely to change.

And then, you know, Proffit to 20 North, similar,

I just don't think there's much there.

So I don't know.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

I'll just add, I agree with you, Frank.

But one thing I'm reminded of is the solar project on Route 53.

And you're seeing more, you know, it might not be traditional development on some of these that we're reviewing.

And I know there was a lot of challenges with that review.

But that might be something we want to consider is, you know,

and maybe that's handled with the scenic highway.

There's protection or there's some oversight there that could help us in that.

You make a good point, Frank.

I mean, that solar farm was certainly

could have had a major visual impact on the highway.

I don't know if the road has scenic highway status.

I'm not sure I know exactly what that means in terms of county-based regulation.

Well, you know, again, we won't know exactly until we pursue it more and what might be allowed and what might be adopted.

But the county did have scenic highway designation previously.

It was on Route 250 West, Route 20 South, and Route 6.

And that scenic highway designation was taken away when the entrance corridor overlay was applied.

When the Scenic Highway designation was in place, I can tell you that it applied to 150 feet on both sides of the right-of-way.

No buildings or structures except some signs were allowed within that 150 feet.

No off-street parking or loading closer than 50 feet.

You could reduce the building setback to 75

under certain circumstances, and then there were a bunch of regulations for signs within that 150-foot deck.

So that's just an example of what it was before.

It doesn't necessarily mean what it would be or that we're even doing it.

We're just still at the, should we be thinking about it?

Gotcha, okay, thanks.

Thank you, Frank, and Frank,

I wonder, Frank, to your point about how we are going to be looking at the corridors.

We might be able to address the concern about building types and use at Avon or other areas by recognizing some different zoning characteristics along the corridors, but still trying to enact some continuity to landscape and other elements of character.

Margaret, I think this is tremendous and I think totally consistent.

It's sort of the one box that some of these don't check is the arterial status, but certainly in terms of being significant roadways leading to significant historic sites and destinations, they're absolutely an important part of that part of the charge of the underlying empowering legislation.

So I really appreciate the work you and staff have put into this and support it fully.

Well, let me just, hold on just a second.

I lost my, okay, here we go.

Lost my cursor, sorry.

Just a second.

What I've got for action.

Yeah, it's really just to,

If there's general support for what's recommended, I can just pass that along.

I would say if it doesn't require formal action on our part, maybe we can just

Okay, I'd be happy to do that.

You'll have an opportunity to review my summary of the comments when you see the action memo in the next day or two.

Thank you very much, Margaret.

Before we move on to the next item, starting the review and study of the corridors and starting with 250, I realized I need to go grab my charging cable and plug my laptop in.

I also just wanted to ask, I appreciate we've had a number of items today.

Okay, great.

Well, if you'll excuse me for just a moment, I'm going to

Go get my cable and plug in.

Do you want to reconvene?

I think my phone says it's 2 53.

Reconvene at 3 o'clock.

OK.

Thank you, everyone.

Thank you, Margaret.

Actually, if I may, I have one I can share on screen, and I can provide it to you separately if you need to have it available.

Thank you.

Yeah, as soon as Frank and Fred are back.

And it looks like I have the rights to share the screen here.

I'll pull it up as soon as folks are back.

Well, it looks like the gang is all here.

So thank you everybody for that break.

My laptop is happy to have some power coming its way again.

And thanks everybody for sticking with a good long session today.

So I really appreciated Fred's remarks at the last meeting about how he'd been

sort of contemplating the different zones and characters along the corridor he was studying and seeking really to try and identify that first.

And so I think that was a lens that I used to look at 250 West for our meeting today and appreciate it again, as our work often helps me appreciate a new, just how beautiful and extraordinary so many parts of our county are.

So I'll pull up a PowerPoint.

I haven't yet begun to try and fill out the Excel file.

And I suspect as we work through this, we may find some tweaks to that that will help us make it more useful, but have really just tried to look today to try and start to break the corridor down into some recognizable chunks and pull out some salient features and really look forward to everyone's input and discussion on that today.

I think also appreciate, I think as Neil suggested, it's quite a vast undertaking and it may be that we ultimately narrow our focus this year to get further with it.

So are folks able to see the full slide in this view?

And does the,

Zoom interface show up over the right side of the screen and what you're seeing.

That's okay.

Let me just see if I can, I like to leave the sorter open on the side just for navigation.

So here of course is 250 West from the county line at the West into the city of Charlottesville, I guess, effectively at Emmett Street.

It's about 22 miles of roadway and I think for today I might suggest we just go the first 20 up to the intersection with the bypass which is really sort of a gateway to another zone.

I found it helpful to take a look at the county's vast resources of maps including the zoning map.

and helped highlight for me that, you know, most of this corridor is in the designated rural zone.

Sorry, I took the wrong place, but that, you know, there are a couple of significant areas, zone commercial, really around the Bellaire Market, around Northridge, a village residential designation around the center of Ivy.

a little bit of commercial and significant residential designation through Crozet with some more intense commercial use near the 64 intersection.

And then I was surprised also to realize that there's a very significant subdivision already sort of platted and in place there at the base of Afton.

So as a quick breakdown, and these are obviously just early drafts so we can

work to adjust as we explore this together.

But from the time I spent reviewing, it seemed like Afton Mountain to Greenwood, Crozet and Ivy were all pretty clearly, potentially clear designations.

And I can go into more potential definition of these.

I think moving past that, I'm interested in others thoughts about how best to define if there is a single word that can the area as we get closer into

to Charlottesville, where there were so many properties that are sort of character defining.

I think also, you know, really the Meacham's River zone is really almost more of a hyphen, it seems to me, in terms of landscape between Crozet and Ivy.

And just to characterize, I was trying to figure out how best to summarize between sort of the Northridge commercial, the Bel Air, Birdwood,

Commercial and golf course landscape, the historic estate neighborhoods, and then the entry.

I couldn't come up with one word to put it in.

So starting, I guess we'll go west to east today.

And folks, feel free to chime in or interject anywhere along the way.

I think this is the first building in the county, the Lang's Art Shop, which I thought was pretty remarkable just for the way the stone wall and then even though it's an asphalt shingle roof, the palette of that sort of grow out of and seem to blend into the landscape.

Another example of sort of simple and vernacular buildings that I think representative of the corridor out in this area.

The Afton Motor Lodge, which

While it's fairly significant, it goes fairly far back into the site, it still manages to have a very diminutive appearance and impact on the corridor.

I think

Starting here and throughout I think one of the things that stands out is a lot of the development predates the corridor guidelines and so in many cases landscape requirements are not in place and in many instances parking and storage are not relegated and uses are not controlled so there's a lot of as you can see across the street at the team convenience store while there's a very simple vernacular building you know that

Well, mostly it's parking and vehicles that dominate the presence there.

The foot of the Rockfish Gap, the Rockfish Country Store.

And again, while it has some blackness in the porch and the articulation, the red roof related to sort of the agricultural precedence ties it in quite well.

And heading further east, again, in a simple sort of elemental form and weathered

Sort of industrial materials on the agricultural buildings, but again, marred a little bit by the unrelegated and onscreen parking.

But then, you know, really rapidly, you can see some of the real continuous elements of the landscape in this western part of the county.

A lot of three and four board fence, especially four board fence, especially black on this corridor.

and generally a landscape of woods or pastures with buildings really quite secondary and either hidden behind woods or far beyond pastures.

And so as a potential gap to the beginning of Greenwood, roughly at the intersection with Plank Road, really what is perhaps one of the most remarkable

I think and intact landscapes and one with really a remarkable character and continuity is Greenwood where they're, you know, really landscape predominates.

There's some great examples of entry and landscape here at Ridgeley, you know, with a painted stone wall and fences and an alley of trees that really marked that.

But again, it's the landscape that announces the presence and not the buildings.

Similarly here at Ramsey, building set very far back in really the landscape predominant.

A couple exceptions in this zone, there's a small Sunoco and I think other, to our discussion earlier about blue and the gray and diminutive scale of the building is somewhat recessive and if not for the canopy, I think it doesn't stand out.

But another example in the historic Emmanuel Episcopal Church

again of a significant building, but one that really is sublimated almost within the landscape.

And again, the importance of marks at the corridor of entry.

Here at Mirador, Seven Oaks.

I think I was struck by as much as there are significant buildings there, they're not really visible and that the corridor really is characterized by landscape.

This, I think being the other

the detraction I think along the corridor, sort of a very long blank screening wall which isn't entirely effective at screening the parking and the vehicular use of the campsite.

Again, the cedar's a very remarkable and notable structural building, a landmark one, but again, one just deeply situated in its landscape.

And moving to the end of the Greenwood zone,

The Village Market, a really unique sort of collection of small vernacular buildings with very diminutive human scale, but a nice collection of sort of historic vernacular agrarian buildings.

And then again at the Greenwood Gourmet Grocery, again sort of simple gable forms relating to, you know, barn roofs with porches for human occupancy.

And while the parking's not relegated and the

Landscape is not in place, the building's sort of dark color palette and overall recessive materiality helps it blend a bit into the landscape.

Struck a bit by how infrastructure forms gateways and passages along the corridor, so certainly 64 marks I think the passage into Crozet.

And then for the

And for the time being, I've proposed sort of a West and an East Crozet.

This Western portion is somewhat more commercial and certainly marked at the beginning by the Yancey Mills Complex, which we've looked at recently.

And while it's certainly not conforming in many ways, it yields quickly to more recent development.

I believe there are more trees now by the FNR building than this shot from Google.

But you can see evidence in this portion of Crozet and the impact of the

Guidelines as they're being put in place, to a degree at the Pro-Onata and at the BP station.

And then earlier examples as well in the Sitco, Brown's Market, and others of buildings that still aren't meeting them.

Although I thought that it was worth just noting this, all engines possible, again, as a very diminutive, vernacular, and humble structure, but one that I think is characteristic of the,

Historic buildings in the area.

I was reminded of this cemetery approaching Western Albemarle, which I realized most of the time I miss because of sort of the number of vehicles and turning motions in front of Brown's Market.

And I have not included the Google Earth view of Old Trail because the entrance has been updated significantly since it was last shot and I think is a good example of applying that sense from the western portion of the corridor of sort of gateway and entry marking and pillars, but yet, you know,

Then there's a zone really characterized by the Albemarle County Public Schools with Western Albemarle, Hindley, and Brownsville.

And there's a fair degree of continuity and landscape here.

It's eroded in some places and there's more of a monoculture, I guess, in terms of the tree planting by Hindley and Brownsville, but still an opportunity within the county's full gift for shaping the character here, the corridor.

and then crossing Miller School Road, a small existing commercial use.

You can see sort of the porch and sort of relationship to vernacular agricultural forms.

But then I think starts what is really maybe the defining characteristic of the corridor right now outside of development areas, which is sort of the VDOT maintained wooded corridor.

It has been eroded a little bit

In some areas, this is Sparrow Run several years ago when they were beginning clearing, but the finished neighborhood is indeed a big interruption to this landscape.

And so one question for later I would have is, you know, currently residential development doesn't really fall in our control.

Are there any, not that we need to take it on, but are there additional landscape requirements on any of these corridors that we need to consider recommending

to be sure that residential development doesn't erode their character.

And certainly there are examples of residential development right next door at Corey Farms where there's much more significant planting along the entrance corridor and where, you know, in its maturity, you know, the development is much more fully screened than it's farrow run.

And you can certainly see in the blue, this is the Blue Ridge Shopping Center,

The way the guidelines are, I think, in large part being effective at screening development and creating a continuity of character.

Again, over at Cloverlawn Village.

And then an example of a building predating the guidelines at the building supply.

But then it quickly returned to sort of the wood-lined corridor and it

Fox Chase, another example of carrying on sort of the precedence of landscapes, formal entrances from the corridor to development.

Again, returning to the wooded corridor and now entering sort of the Meacham's River zone of the transition from Crozet to Ivy, John W. Clayton's son.

And this building, while quite elemental, is one that actually to me is quite interesting as an example that,

who still has a great deal of order and scale and hierarchy.

Perhaps without the propane tank and a few things in the front yard would be still more appropriate.

But I think an interesting example of a building that doesn't look like the historic presidents but still has some notable characteristics.

And then again, a notable piece of infrastructure and a gateway between the railway bridge over the river

and the vehicular bridge over the river entering sort of greater ivy and I've broken it down into western ivy, west of what we'll call Ivy Village at the village development area.

And again, notable pasture landscape at the river lowlands of Meacham's River.

But still another example in the barn swallow of a recessive wood vernacular, dark building screened

really effectively by landscape and recessive within it, the bamboo notwithstanding.

And then heading up to the east again, just more views that show that consistency of character and entry here at Tillman Road.

And then really, again, another example where still

fairly effectively screened but where residential development by Wright begins to erode a bit that character.

Here at Turner Mountain Road and then coming into Ivy Village, Ivy Commons, Dooners, I think you know obviously this area is beginning to see some development we'll be seeing some more I'm sure but they're notable characteristics of the brick and you know muted

and Ivory Tomes that sit well in the landscape.

Morgantown in Owensville and then the passage under the railway bridge, which hopefully as the village develops, it will develop.

Hopefully there's some plans for Buckingham to support pedestrian connection through there in the future.

The Ivy Post Office and Corner, again, very demeaned to scale vernacular wood-clad buildings.

Weathered painted finish again at Todsbury.

And again, we'll be seeing some new evolution here.

And then treating really the, I guess the little Ivy Creek as the edge of the zone.

And then just driving on into town.

Again, I think you can still see continuity of the wooded landscape buildings basically

Not really apparent even here at All Saints Anglica Church.

More river landscapes.

Here at Verdant Lawn Lane, this is opposite Brumley and Kearsarge.

Folks might remember a few years ago, the new building and the farm and other things were quite visible.

I think it's an example of a pretty remarkable thick landscape buffer that screens that development quite effectively.

and George, I think the interesting coordination between the pallet of the ground plane and the building, reminds me of the building we started with that Alain's Art Shop and some outdoor coolers and parking, but even just a little bit of island planting and corridor guidelines coming into place improve.

The Diaz Tavern, of course, and again, just more continuity, as you see with white four board fence,

I thought this view is notable sort of as a gateway coming up to Northridge and this dark gray, almost black barn building is one that's always been remarkable to me.

I think it's the Johnson farm just for the way it sort of sits, but recessively in the landscape.

Coming up to Northridge and the Ivy Nursery, I think another remarkable example of a significant commercial use along the corridor, but one that's tremendously well screened from it.

And then highlighting Northridge really just because it is a development or the zoning certainly supports additional development.

here and I would say certainly that character is not yet fully defined, the university and medical center certainly defining sort of the larger scale brick buildings and good quality construction and carrying on the traditions of stone walls and landscape radiology with its mature landscape, a good example of building receding in.

The Bell Air Service, a good example for white paint along the corridor, but one with perhaps a more weathered appearance.

But another interesting example, and I think the Virginia Oil Building.

Again, I'm struck by the simplicity of the form, the massing, and the material of the commercial buildings on this corridor and how they worked.

and then again just moving through some of the neighborhoods at Ednam and in Farmington and the way they sort of embrace and continue the tradition of the gateways and also relate to the stone walls that define some of the historic estates here, you know, Kenridge and White Gables and the Boars Head and we'll leave the portion of the landscape beyond the bypass to a future meeting but

These stone walls, the low stone walls continue even beyond over at the orthopedic center and elsewhere are an element of continuity in the landscape, I think, in the zone of the corridor.

So, and then by the former Virginia Tractor and of course the Bellaire Market, I think, you know, as a gas station, you know, carrying on the idea of porches and

and other local traditions significant and then the Bel Air subdivision.

Again, screening residential development from the corridor.

So a very quick drive down 250 West.

And as I said, I think I'd like to defer the portion east of the bypass to a future discussion.

But

I think this is great.

I'm a little concerned you set the bar too high.

But no, I think this is really helpful.

Did you want just like general comments?

Sure, yeah.

Just a couple thoughts.

One is there may be some, these are random, so forgive me.

You know, you mentioned a couple things at the beginning like the words recessive materiality, right, in dark colors and things like that.

I think

That's the key, right, is picking up some of those things and figuring out a way to kind of summarize them, which I think maybe that matrix will do.

I think that, you know, what you've said out here is a really great start to a template, in my opinion, and maybe it's something that we could use, you know, basically plagiarize so that it would be simpler and we could have one consistent template that we could all use.

and then eventually kind of you know maybe this is sort of the top of the funnel and as things kind of trickle down to the tip of the funnel you know it's a way or we can sort of answer the question how is this a tool that's useful for staff the board and applicants you know what are the key takeaways on each of those and then the last thing was just and you made me think of this with I think it's the Virginia oil across from

you know our office across from Borscht.

I know you mentioned white paint and sort of that distressed look but there may be some things along the corridor that we acknowledge are historically you know historic precedent that we don't want.

Great, thank you Fred.

I'll jump in

I was really struck by the different character of the corridor as you moved east and it made me realize perhaps you're going to have a hard time establishing

guidelines for the entire corridor that actually work.

I was in particular, I think, you know, from Afton pretty much through Ivy until you get to the radiology center at UVA there, it's it's tends to be rural in character.

And as you said, the architecture is diminutive and darker, more agriculturally rooted

Architecture.

And so I think to Fred's point, it would really be helpful to go through in each of those sections and identify the precedents that we think are good and the precedents we'd rather not have in the future.

I was struck in Crozet in particular as you kind of go past Cloverlawn and the shopping center across the street and which each have very different character but were both I think approved by the ARB although I don't know maybe one of them predates

Anyway, they both have very different character and to me Clover Lawn feels much more appropriate than the shopping center does across the way and yet the shopping center

incorporates a lot of the materials that I think we would say you know would be appropriate from our county the dark brick and so yeah it'd be really I think it'd be great just to take a little deeper dive into each of these areas and and get feedback from all of us about what you know what things stick out and what

what we could retain as a meaningful guidepost for folks and what you kind of have to throw out and say yeah that's there but it's it's not really contributing it's detracting or you know

How far west would you allow them to build a multi-story structure like UVA's built on the corridor?

If you were in Ivy, would we allow that under any circumstances?

Yeah, I don't know.

More questions.

I don't have any answers.

No, very good ones, Frank.

Yeah, that was a really excellent presentation.

I appreciate you doing all that.

And I think, I don't know that this is unique to this corridor, but the kind of natural foliage seems to predominate and that what seems to stick out as you progress are the buildings that are just kind of nakedly in view with no

Foliage in front of them.

I think of the example of the Blue Ridge Shopping Center and Blue Ridge Builder Supply, which is right next door, and one is much more successful in terms of integrating with the corridor.

I think because it's tucked behind trees, much like some of the

more successful like historic buildings on the corridor where Blue Ridge Builders is kind of right, you know, in your face even comparing it to like Georges like where there is a building but there is that little kind of green strip, you know, Ivy Nursery once again, there's a nice screening of natural foliage that you kind of,

Thank you, that seems true to me too.

I felt like looking at this affirmed for me that the landscape requirements in our current guidelines are very worthwhile and are effective where they're implemented at creating more continuity and also certainly taking more of the visual heat off of buildings and architecture so that they don't have to carry the whole world.

Sure, thanks, Dade.

Just real quickly, I think it's really nice how you broke the corridor down into kind of neighborhoods.

And I think as an applicant, that would be super helpful to say here, you're in West Ivy, here are the buildings, here are the landscape features, this is what's in your neighborhood.

If you want to have the contextual discussion, you know, it doesn't necessarily relate to what's on Afton Mountain or at Afton Mountain.

even though that's the same corridor.

So it definitely drills down.

I think we can do that endlessly, but I think this is a nice framework to just set you in the corridor and give you kind of some parameters.

And then I'll just add one thing to note, especially in this corridor is topography and landform.

And I think to Frank Stoner's point of the different field

at the Harris Teeter and across the street in Crozet has to do a lot with landform and who's below the road and who's above the road or at level with the road.

So just another lens.

Like I said, I think we could do this endlessly with elements, but I really appreciate it.

And I concur with Fred that if we could plagiarize this, that would be great.

Well, I started by plagiarizing Google.

So yeah, this is definitely open source and I'm delighted that the zones seem to resonate as a way to make it more adjustable.

That was one of the questions I had.

I'll run through the other questions I had real quickly.

I don't have to answer them all now, but

You know, I think from looking at this corridor, I felt like landscape is really the most defining element.

The primary one, I don't know if folks would concur.

And I was interested and we can revisit it, but, you know, are additional measures needed to reinforce consistency of the corridor landscape in residential and rural areas?

I think there are some forms of development that we don't review and

While to date the development pressure on the corridor hasn't been such that it's eroded those borders, are there any other recommendations we would like to make or consider making to help preserve more of a buffer?

I was also, just as a question, I was being struck by how consistent and

At least to me, remarkable, the Greenwood landscape was many of the properties there are already historic landmarks, at least on the registry.

I don't think it's our place, it's some other body's place, but recommending some historic designation for that landscape to preserve it.

And then I think from the discussion, I think one of the other questions was, as you said, Chris, the buildings that stand out like Greenwood Market and others stand out in large part because of the interruption in the landscape.

And to some extent, some of those are reasonably successful, but I think it's only in the context of the great continuity that exists today.

So I think like you and your observation with Harris Teeter,

It seems to me, after looking at this, that continuing to enforce the EC guidelines is a good way to both preserve and improve the character of the corridor.

And then I think just, sorry, I've begun trying to summarize some of the material and formal characteristics.

And Fred, to your point, yeah, the funnel's quite broad, so I appreciate

The need will get some finer sieves out.

And I hope to eventually translate this to others as a potential follow-up.

If members would like to advise separately which buildings they want to nominate as ones to celebrate and which ones to pan to help folks in interpreting the context of the guidelines, I'd welcome that and be happy to try and synthesize it into the form.

Let's see, I know it's coming up on 330.

I guess just one other thought as we think about landscape and particularly how these EC quarter guidelines are enforced.

I wonder whether

I wonder whether in some of these rural areas, a different standard is needed.

To your point, EC guidelines tend to be pretty suburban feeling, I guess, if that's the right word for it.

And when you impose those as they were in Crozet at the shopping center there, in some ways, to me, it feels a little bit out of place.

Like it's, you've got to dump this suburban model into what was otherwise a rural kind of landscape.

Yeah, I think that's a great point, Frank.

I mean, the thing that comes to mind is, we were talking about Greenwood and how beautiful that corridor is.

We're not going to see an applicant come in who says they want to build another giant estate with a lovely entrance road and a stone wall.

We're going to see the applicant comes in and says, this would be a great place for sheets, right?

You know, how does something like that, not that it would be a sheets, but something like that, that would go in that area fit in?

Frank, I think is a great thing to think about.

You know, when you get to those areas that are Crozet, where they're more built up, maybe it's more appropriate, or maybe there's a transition zone or something.

Well, it's gonna come to us because I think Gowalla wants to locate at the corner of 240 and 250.

One example I think about a lot is the Northridge Stonewall and landscape, because that's such a, it seems somewhat out of place, the tall, big commercial building.

But I feel like that landscape element really helps tie it in to the corridor.

And I know that's a kind of above and beyond maybe what we would get from a lot of applicants, but

as maybe an example to point to of like, hey, there's a way to transition this or to relate it to the landscape or to relate it to your corridor.

I think about that example a lot.

Yeah, and a parking lot, yeah.

No, that's a great point.

What landscape types and forms and also what building character makes sense on this coin.

Sounds like there might be consensus that buildings that relate more to agrarian form and typology may be more appropriate in this or other oral zones.

Great.

I apologize.

I don't have the calendar of our plan next study in front of us.

I did punt on the on the corridor, the Ivy Road corridor to Emmett, which is a whole other zone and character.

I think everything leading to it could try to revisit that at the next one and push the schedule out.

OK. Yeah, I guess Chris and I corresponded after the last meeting.

OK, great.

Well, I think, Chris, if you're willing to follow on 240 in two weeks, it'd be great to keep this sort of look at the Western zone going.

Yes, yeah, I will.

And these are just all screenshots snipped into a PowerPoint.

The file is about 300 megs.

Do we want to come back to this and take a deeper dive into this?

Or how do we envision at the end?

Or do we want to stay on this?

Well, that's a good question, Frank.

And I guess I'm reminded of Neil's question and open for discussion.

adopted a calendar that has us looking all around the county over the next year, which would basically mean probably we could do this level of filling the funnel for the whole county, or alternatively we could revisit it, maybe we could say we're gonna stay focused to the west for this year, or at least for the first half of the year, try and complete looking at all of the corridors over there and distill them into recommendations and then move on to another quadrant or sector.

Yeah, I like that idea.

Maybe sticking with the stuff to the West, but coming back and focusing, well, because you have these thoughts and then you lose them.

No, I would too.

I think, Frank, if others support it, I would be in support of maybe reshaping our focus for at least the next six months to try and complete a deeper dive on this.

I see some nods.

I like that.

And maybe we think about what's the deliverable of, hey, is it a one-sheeter per corridor?

Yeah, I think if for this and other corridors, the breakdown of zones works, I can imagine even

possibly one pages for each of them.

The other, it did occur to me that there are probably at least two types of zones on this corridor.

One that you could probably call development, which whether that be Crozet or Northridge or Bellaire-Bord commercial zoning areas, and then the rest being primarily rural area slash residential and trying to craft guidelines for that or not guidelines, I know we're trying

Yeah, I think having conversations about, not today necessarily, but how these will all be used is a good snapshot for us.

I can envision an applicant coming to staff saying, I want to build a Wawa at the intersection of 240 and 250 or whatever

Yes yeah and then as a you know as a

promulgated either guideline or just supplement.

We could maybe encourage applicants as part of their applications to demonstrate their relationship to the context.