Planning Commission Meeting   12/15/2020

to access, assess, and participate in the electronic meeting will be posted on the www.albemarle.org forward slash community forward slash county dash calendar when available.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Bailey?

Present.

Mr. Keller?

Present.

Mr. Randolph?

Present.

Ms.

Mr. Clayborne?

Here.

Ms.

Moore?

Present.

Mr. Bivins?

Here.

And Mr. Carrazana?

Here.

Does anyone care to pull any of the items on the consent agenda for this evening?

Moved by Rick, seconded by Corey.

Corey, is there any discussion?

Mr. Clayborne.

Aye.

Ms.

Mr. Bivins.

Aye.

Mr. Randolph.

Aye.

Ms.

Mr. Keller.

Aye.

Aye.

Thank you very much.

So we know what season this is and we know what meeting this is.

And I understand having participated in three that we have this tradition of being heralded by a particular individual.

And so the chair is going to do something that the chair doesn't particularly do, doesn't do very often and use his prerogative

to invite Mr. Neil Williamson to share a word with us.

Mr. Williamson.

We're doing some coordinating.

OK.

Very good.

Neal Williamson, I'm the president of the Free Enterprise Forum.

And as Chairman Bivins has mentioned, in what has become quite the tradition, we present the 2020 holiday poem, A Coronavirus Carol.

2020 has been an unprecedented year.

With COVID-19, we have something to fear.

Local government meetings were first socially distant, then canceled.

Applications left waiting.

The delay was understandable, but the fiscal impact was grating.

But Albemarle County first, and later the others too, reinvented government operations and knew what to do.

With urgent persistence, staffs took some time to get ready,

teaching appointed and electeds to keep the camera steady.

Chairs learned how to run a virtual meeting.

Electeds worked hard to get just the right seating.

Clerks had to learn how to manage the chat.

Keeping meeting participants in line is like herding cats.

Staff presented by sharing their screen, asking each and every time if it could be seen.

Applicants found multiple channels were needed as they attempted to connect with their team, distantly seated.

When the technology was right and the meeting ordinances passed, each locality found a different way to get it done.

Charlottesville was last.

Every meeting was different.

Seeing Zoom participants looking so cute

but every meeting had someone who was told they were on mute.

Seeing into their homes in a voyeuristic way, we saw each other as people by where they stay.

Glimpses into their lives, we smiled at this and that, be it a poster in the background or counselor McGill's cat.

With vaccines on the way, we may get back to normal in late 2021.

But the virtual meetings, I do not think they'll be done.

With public participating from the comfort of their living room, I anticipate we have not seen the end of local government Zoom.

From the perspective of this old local public policy rube,

localities are not getting this toothpaste back in the tube.

In 2021, local governments will pivot to hybrid meetings or such.

Attendees will demand it and staff will not mind much.

Presenting in sweatpants helps in keeping it real.

Getting a high virtual room rating has a positive feel.

So thanks to all who kept our local governments going.

The challenge was great, and your professionalism is showing.

Thank you very much.

and to you, Mr. Williamson, happy holiday and a safe and joyous 2021 for you, please.

Now, we're about to open up.

We are going to our public hearing and it will be ZMA 2020-11 premiere circle.

Yes.

Good evening.

I'm Megan Adossa, Development Process Manager with Community Development Department.

Tonight we are here for the first public hearing on our request to rezone 3.748 acres from C1 commercial to neighborhood model district NMD premiere circle.

Brief overview of my presentation.

I will present the site context, the current zoning, master plans, future land use designation,

Overview of the proposed rezoning and application plan.

And then I will transition into providing a bit more detail on the impacts and staff recommended changes, the factors favorable and unfavorable to the rezoning.

And then finally conclude with staff's recommendation on the rezoning and modification request.

So to orient everybody, this is the laser pointer.

You can see Route 29 here and the site is kind of in the center of the screen.

with that gold star.

The Berkeley subdivision is located to the northwest.

Across the street on 29 is Food Lion and a big lot center, and up in the corner is the Fashion Square Mall.

So this is just an enlargement closer into the site.

As you can see, there's currently a motel on the property, Red Carpet Inn, which consists of four buildings and a parking area

with one entrance off of Premier Circle.

Premier Circle is here, and Premier Circle is a private street, an existing private street.

The zoning of the property is currently C1 Commercial, which allows for retail, sales, and service with residential by special use permit.

You can see the space, that pinkish color there.

This is the map of the comprehensive plan.

Premier Circle is within the Places 29 master plan area and is in between two center designations.

You can see on this map neighborhood service center to the south and the community center.

It's just to the east across 29.

The future land use plans primary designation on the site is office, research and development, flex, light, industrial, and that's that purple color on the map with residential as a secondary use.

The master plan does not specify a maximum recommended density for the residential as a secondary use, and this proposed development would be between 22 and 38 units per acre.

While residential is intended to be secondary in this designation, the master plan states that the primary and secondary uses are expected to be made over an entire contiguous designation and not an individual parcel.

So since this property is adjacent to other designated properties, staff found that the residential units proposed are secondary in relation to the entire area.

You can see multiple parcels in this purple area.

So to reorient, this is the application plan.

Route 29 is now on the bottom of the screen, and Premier Circle is here.

So this is sheet four from the application plan.

The applicant's proposal includes two residential buildings that are here and here, and the parking to accommodate between 80 and 140 residential units, of which 60 are proposed to be affordable.

Along with the residential, an additional building for non-residential uses is located closest to Route 29.

The maximum height is proposed to be four stories with a step back requirement for the building closest to the single family detached homes in the Berkeley subdivision.

So this building and this saying of the building would have that step back.

So this is the sheet six of the application plan.

And this sheet indicates where the bus stop, the proposed bus stop along Premier Circle would be located.

It shows the 20-foot landscape buffer and a 50-foot setback of the building as well for structures between the development and the existing Berkeley subdivision.

The sheet also shows future potential pedestrian connections here and here.

And then the next.

but I'll move into the impacts and changes.

So the applicant has provided for 60% or more affordable units onsite for sale or rent within the code of development.

This would equate to 84 units, 140 units per bill.

And as you know, the current housing policy recommends 15% of units be affordable.

The students within the proposed development would attend Woodbrook Elementary, Jewett Middle School, and Albemarle High School.

There are no capacity concerns at Woodbrook or Jewett Middle.

However, Albemarle is currently over capacity.

The High School Center II project has been identified and will help with the capacity issues at Albemarle.

The applicant has stated that 80 of the units will be for single adults and 60 units could have children.

However, there is potential for those 80 single units in the future to be converted to multi-bedroom units, which could add more children.

So I provided the yield rates.

This is in the staff report as well as given for the school's yield rates.

So for 140 maximum units, which is the max number of units proposed, it would equate to 17 elementary, four middle, and seven high.

And for the 60 units, as the applicant has stated, that would equate to seven elementary, two middle, and three high school students.

A detailed analysis of the neighborhood model principles can be found in attachment five.

Staff found the majority of the neighborhood model principles are being met.

However, we identified two that are remaining that need to be addressed.

The first is related to amenities.

The applicant is proposing amenities that would serve adults only and not providing an opportunity for a tot lot or a playground for children.

So staff is recommending that the code of development be revised to allow for an amenity-centered play space for children.

The second principle also relates to the next section, which is transportation and pedestrian access concerns.

So the principle of pedestrian orientation as well as transportation.

So concern from the community was raised at the community meeting and also identified by staff.

Regarding future residents desiring to cross 29 to the services across the highway, as I stated,

Previously, there's a Food Lion grocery store and a Big Lots services that are across 29.

Currently, there's no safe way to cross 29 for pedestrians, and staff requested that the applicant study the intersection of Route 29 in Branchlands Premier Circle, that light there, to evaluate whether a pedestrian crossing could be installed at that location.

Since the writing of the report, the applicant provided a traffic impact analysis

and the transportation staff and VDOT is currently reviewing the data.

The analysis provided information regarding a pedestrian crossing and VDOT is still evaluating the feasibility of installation of a crossing at that intersection.

However, they have not completed their review at this time and we don't know if a pedestrian crossing is available at that location.

The TIA also provided information on traffic into and out of Premier Circle and concluded

that the improvements such as the turn and taper are not warranted, that there is adequate storage for the movements from 29 and into and out of Premier Circle.

As I stated previously, the applicant is offering a bus stop, which is the second point on the screen, for future service to the site.

However, staff is recommending that the language be revised for the timing of the stop to be installed to be upon demand at the county.

This provides flexibility to

In addition, concern was raised about the adequacy of the existing private street.

County engineer requested information regarding the condition and maintenance of the road.

However, the information has not been provided to date and staff is recommending that this information be provided and evaluated and addressed prior to the public hearing with the Board of Supervisors.

So the factors favorable that staff has identified is the rezoning is consistent with the majority of the applicable neighborhood model principles.

The rezoning provides affordable housing that exceeds the housing policy within the comprehensive plan.

The rezoning request is consistent, excuse me, with the majority of the recommendations within the master planning.

The unfavorable factors identified is that Premier Circle is a private street

and the condition is unknown for the proposed resounding and the maintenance of that private street as well.

There are not adequate pedestrian facilities across Route 29 to services for the residents of this development.

It is unknown if additional transportation improvements are needed for the development and changes are needed to the application plan included development as identified by staff.

So I've also

provided a slide on those recommended changes that the transportation concerns, including the private street, as well as the pedestrian access be addressed.

The code of development should be revised to include an amenity playground for the children, as I previously mentioned, revised the notation on the application plan, and code of development, the bench and shelter for the bus stop will be installed upon the end of the county.

And the code of development should be revised to include a maximum square footage of non-residential uses.

In addition to the rezoning request, the applicant is requesting to have one housing type within the neighborhood model district.

Head MD requires two housing types.

However, the board can waive this requirement upon finding that it meets at least one of the criteria.

At least two housing types are already present within a quarter mile and or the proposal is an infill project.

Staff found that Premier Circle development meets both of these criteria and recommends approval of the exception.

I have one question if no one else does.

Yes, Karen.

Yeah, Luis put his hand up too.

This is really easy question.

Just when you were talking about the bus stop, where would you envisioning that would be located?

Okay.

I can note that I worked on Premier Circle for three and a half years.

So every single day during the week, I drove Premier Circle.

And there are a lot of driveways that are, you know, you don't see, because it's curved, you don't, when you're coming out of those other businesses, you don't see cars coming and there's a lot of near collisions.

and I think that would actually be worse if a bus was coming around.

So I actually don't think that it's a very good idea to try to direct a bus around that road.

It's not built to county standards for width.

There are sightline issues and there are drivers where, like I said, you can't see people coming out easily.

And I'll also just make a quick comment on the children

a playground idea that also I think is really important in its prior use as a motel.

You would often find children playing in the street because they didn't have anywhere else to play in premier circle.

So besides the sort of blind driveway problem, you also had to watch out for children.

So if they don't have a playground, that's where they'll be again.

And it's definitely a real safety concern.

Luis?

So I think Commissioner Firehock and I were somehow sinking.

My question had to do with the maintenance agreement, I think, or maintenance of the road, which you stated was unknown.

And so my question is, do we know if there's any kind of maintenance agreement?

And that was going to lead to the point of if we don't know exactly the condition of the road or the maintenance around it, is it a good idea to be proposing bus traffic through the road?

So I guess those are the questions.

One is we don't know the condition, but do we know if there's a maintenance agreement?

for that road.

And then again, the question of we don't understand the condition of the road or maintenance thereof.

Sure, so to answer the question about the maintenance agreement, there is a document.

It's really old.

It was one of the attachments in the staff report.

but the maintenance isn't spelled out to what standard that road would be maintained.

And so that is part of the information that we requested from the applicant.

The applicant may be able to answer better on what they expect and what they're working on as far as the road section and how that future maintenance might occur.

I will defer to Kevin, but I think that the bus stop we can evaluate

the adequacy of the road and work with Cat or John on that.

Thank you.

Are there other questions?

Kevin, did you want to respond to that?

Yeah, we've looked at the site where they're proposing the bus stop to be located.

Currently, it appears like there's enough site distance going both ways.

There's no driveways directly across from it or near it on that side.

I think it would likely only be going one way.

People would only catch any bus here if it were heading southbound, so it would be going that direction on Premier Circle.

It looks like it would fit well.

Did you want to say anything about crossing 29?

Yeah, I can add to what Megan has described already.

We did receive the traffic study that evaluated the potential for a crossing, and we've reviewed it.

There's a median in the middle of 29 on the south side of that branchlands intersection.

that would allow for a pedestrian refuge.

So it could be done as a two-stage crossing, making it a little more viable.

There'd be some minor impacts to traffic on 29, maybe up to a 10-second delay on north and southbound traffic.

but it's fairly minor and if we could get a ped actuated signal in there, that 10 second delay would only occur if a pedestrian actually pushed the button to cross and they could cross in two stages and it wouldn't have a major impact on traffic all over.

However, VDOT always has to review these, especially because it's on 29.

And I'm sure they'll have a high bar for that.

So as Megan mentioned, we're still going to need to continue to get evaluations from VDOT on it and see how that works.

It's also a fairly expensive project to get that in because of the need of the pedestrian signals and the

the pedestrian refuge in the center.

And also there's no sidewalk on the branch land side of that, that would take them down into the development.

So all that would have to be kind of put into one project.

Additional questions for Megan before we bring the applicant in.

Just wanted to understand a little bit more about the bus stop.

Is it, this proposed bus stop, is it presumed that there would be no pull off area for the bus or, you know, it would be stopping on the main premier circle road as proposed?

That's my understanding.

I think the traffic volumes on Premier Circle probably wouldn't warrant the need for a pull off there.

It's rare that, you know, if a bus comes once every half hour or something, I just don't think it's going to really cause any traffic issues.

All right.

Questions for Mr. McDermott.

Back with a comment about the project, the pedestrian crossing in the project.

Just for my knowledge, what's defined as expensive?

I can give you a very general idea but obviously we haven't put any cost estimates to this and I'm thinking of this because we're putting pedestrian crossing across Avon right now with a refuge in the middle and there's some additional sidewalk going on as well and that

Project is around 400,000, I believe.

So there's likelihood we'd need to add some extra poles on this one, and the sidewalk would be a little longer.

Other questions?

If we were looking at this being a business going in and there was a need for this crossing to be associated with it, would we not be looking at a potential proffer here?

I understand because the county is getting a wonderful number of affordable housing units.

I can maybe try and respond to that.

Andy or Megan or Charles, please let me know if I'm on the right track.

No, I think Kevin is spot on that we wouldn't be, and I'm sure Mr. Randolph remembers this, is that we would accept what was offered to mitigate that impact as opposed to request something.

Other questions, comments?

Yeah, just quickly to point out to the commission too that

Walking from the current motel, it's a one third of a mile walk door to door from that motel to Food Lion.

It is a one mile walk from the door of that motel to the front door of Trader Joe's.

So if VDOT is not amenable to adding another traffic light, it isn't as if there are no other options to walk to a nearby grocery store.

and of course there's a lot of other businesses over at the other mall.

I will also note that even if we are successful in getting VDOT to a Greedo traffic light and even if you have the safe haven in the middle, I used to run across that road every week, several times a week and I stopped doing that after six months because I decided I wanted to live.

So I'm just saying that cars don't behave well and

Even with the light, we might have some red light runners there.

And I'm not sure VDOT will let us have a light so close to existing traffic lights both up and downstream of that location.

So just saying that there are other options in case we can't get that to work.

Okay, others.

Also, keep in mind there'll be a, is it a Lytle or an Aldi, since they're owned by the same company, coming into what used to be called Shoppers World, but is now, I think, called 29 Place, so that may be helpful there.

Other questions?

Just a comment to reinforce what Karen said.

Additionally, VDOT will be mindful of the CDB, which has representation from downstate urban interest in Lynchburg and Danville, who are very aware of even

two second changes in the traffic through the Charlottesville Albemarle 29 corridor.

So I think you're wise to be already projecting a safer route going south on the west side of 29 than trying to proceed across.

But the concern is that

I would feel that there's a need for signage to really warn people of the danger of trying to sprint across that, unless, fortunately, your name happens to be Usain Bolt.

And you can make it across in probably three seconds per lane, which is six seconds all of 29.

But, you know, the last time we talked about this on 29, an individual died

a day or two afterwards.

So mortality at worst and morbidity on 29 is something for us to be very much aware of.

Other questions?

So one of the things, if I might, before we move to hearing from the applicant, I would like some more exploration of the private street.

I'm struck how this is a coalition of not-for-profits, all with wonderful missions, trying to keep in place or trying to keep in good stead a private street that presently would

with for-profit entities surrounding that street haven't been able to keep that street in good repair and that being able to do whatever it might be possible to do an investment to turn it into a public street and then have it accepted by VDOT might take that budget piece off of them depending on how difficult that is and also would get them out of the negotiation with the

other users, although sort of limited use, given that most of the, most of the premier circle seems to be the front on this project.

So I'd like, you know, some conversation about the, the option, or as you, as you've mentioned there, the exploration of perhaps moving to a public street on that.

The other thing, if I could just ask a bit on, so Megan, right now, this is a commercial, this is the zone commercial.

and we're pushing it to, we're not pushing it to anything.

We're being requested to move it to a different status that has residential and has some other kinds of things.

So as far as square footage, I don't have a,

Number on how much possible square footage could be on that site commercial wise.

I know there has been concern raised about the loss of the land use designation within the master plan of the office R&D flex.

Light industrial to an industrial or to a residential use mainly.

And I did do an analysis.

As you all know, the places are the Rio 29 small area plan was adopted

two years ago in 2018, and with that adoption, that use, the office R&D flex uses were added as a buy-write use, and that's 400 acres.

I calculated how many parcels were designated that prior to that adoption, and there was approximately 40 acres.

kind of a net gain of our 360 additional acres.

I will share that given that we have hard boundaries in the county, that every time we make one of these moves, we are actually reducing the inventory that we have.

to encourage economic development here.

Since for the most part, all the economic developments happening in the development area and not happening other places in the county.

And so I just wanna, I want us to be, just to keep aware of the fact that every time we do this, we're having an impact on our ability to attract business here.

Let me ask another question if I might.

You mentioned that,

or the applicant has mentioned that 60% will be affordable, will be offered to affordable.

So is this one of those situations where if it doesn't, if they don't come within the X amount of days, then it can be released to the community?

I think those two questions, the, will they work with Dr. Pethia is a good one for the applicant, I think, to answer.

As far as I remember, there will not be any for sale units on the property.

At the moment, I believe they are all slated for rental, in which case they would need to be affordable for a minimum of 10 years.

At least one part, one phase will be utilizing low income housing tax credits.

So I was able to quickly pull up the Code of Development and there is a for sale option within the Code of Development and it's the 120 day

The expectation is that they would be working with you, Dr. Posey.

Correct.

I will ask the applicant to confirm that.

The reason I say that is we're doing a bunch of things here, at least I feel like we're doing a bunch of things that feel like it's about the joy of wanting this project to succeed.

but I also want this project to be helpful to the residents of Albemarle County and our policies that we're working through.

So that's why I'm asking some of these questions.

I want to be real clear to those people who are hearing that I am not trying to say that I'm not supportive of this, but I'm trying to figure out how this project sort of aligns.

I'm not saying one way or another, how it aligns with some of the policies that the county's putting on.

My last question, and perhaps you will signal again, that this is for the applicant to discuss.

So if I look at the proposed plan or the draft plan, there's a lot of surface parking there.

And there's very little green space, even when we speak to having a top lot or having some space there for people to bring their children to.

I noticed that there's

There's not a need for gardens or there's a desire for gardens, even though I am a gardener, I am not a big supporter of community gardens because as people change, the community gardens often not follow.

And so what's the point of having that space?

But what I didn't notice is that there wasn't any green space or outdoor space for non, for adults.

And while I realized that there's a,

They've outlined some numbers within their code of development, but the parking requirements would be met at the site plan stage and they'll probably, I would anticipate that they would state that there would request a reduction because of the nature of the residents that would be there.

So there may be a potential for some of that parking to be reduced to allow future green space.

For the Albemarle High School piece, I will share with you that I'm being told that high school may not be like it is today.

So we actually may see high schoolers spend more of their time doing remote learning for some classes and taking off some of the census pressure that we've been experiencing.

So those of you who have high schoolers or emerging high schoolers, just think about that for a bit, that there may be a shift in the way high school changes because of them being very productive during this time.

Are there any other questions?

Mr. Chair, could we pause for a minute?

Absolutely, sir.

We can pause for a minute.

Oh, there we go.

And everybody, pause for a minute.

Oh, I'm turning off.

Oh, I'm turning off too.

Oh, I'm turning off too.

Thank you for staying.

It's good to see you.

I hope you're all prepared for tomorrow.

although those of you who live south of town are probably only just going to get rain and Jenny's going to be the one and Karen's going to be the one who gets slammed.

We're ready for the snow day.

It's a ha?

We're ready for the snow day here.

Just bring a shovel close to your door.

I've ridden in snow before.

It is fun.

It is a lot of fun.

It's kind of crazy.

I think so.

Laurie Schweller, okay, one second, sorry.

We can, so let's, Laurie, can you pause?

Good evening, Laurie.

Pause for a second.

Some members, commissioners can come back before us.

We've got a few people who turned their cameras off.

And I'm hoping they're going to turn their cameras back.

Oh, there's one.

And now we're waiting for just one more who's going to turn her camera on, I hope.

Laurie and Craig, can you please come to the link that you were just sent from Charles and go in that way?

OK.

Thank you.

Julian, Karen may be able to hear you.

Oh, you could?

Yeah, I could hear everything, but I just stepped away.

OK.

Hey, Karen.

I sent a meeting invite.

I think I forwarded you and the link should be in that invite.

Did you send it to me as well?

Thank you.

Thanks.

Yes, please.

I'm just looking for teddy bears.

Forget fancy bears.

OK, there's two of the gentlemen.

There they are.

Karen's coming back.

There we are.

Good evening, Chair Bivens and Planning Commissioners.

I'm Laurie Schweller, attorney with Williams Mall and representing the applicant.

Let's see here.

OK, excellent.

Alright, as you know, we are requesting a recommendation of approval for rezoning from C1 to neighborhood model development for the redevelopment of the red carpet in property on Route 29 North to support

Can I ask that you go to, yes, thank you, because it's hard to see.

It's OK.

Keep going, then.

All right.

I'm sorry for interrupting you.

So the project proponents are the Virginia Supportive Housing, Piedmont Housing Alliance, and the Thomas Jefferson Area Coalition for the Homeless.

And by bringing these organizations together on one parcel, this project offers the opportunity for the organizations to share efficiencies and take advantage of opportunities as they arise to share supportive services.

On the call with us tonight, we have our project redevelopment team, including Whitney McDermott and Bruce Wargel from BRW Architects and Craig Katarski and Steve Schmidt, who is our traffic engineer from Timmons Group.

Of course, this is the project location on the west side of Route 29, and you can see the development

in the area.

The Red Carpet Inn has four buildings with 115 hotel rooms.

And the property is about three and three quarters acre.

You can see here the property in the context with commercial to the east and west and single family development to the north.

So the project proposal is VSH intends to develop 80 units of permanent supportive housing at 50% or lower AMI.

And PHA intends to develop 60, primarily one and two bedroom units of affordable housing at 30 to 80% AMI.

and TJAC will use during the development of the property existing rooms as emergency shelter for clients experiencing homelessness at high risk of developing serious illness from COVID.

Property, as Megan explained, is designated in the Places 29 Master Plan for office R&D, flex and light industrial as its primary use, with residential as its secondary use.

And for that reason, we're proposing a mixed use development in two blocks.

And so block one,

along Route 29 would have mixed use or non-residential development and Block 2 would have the two residential developments for BSH and PHA.

Potentially, some of the PHA units could be on the second floor of a building on Block 1.

So the redevelopment concept then is for BSH to develop an 80 unit, four story building.

of Supportive Housing in the center as phase one.

And then PHA would be developing a 40 to 60 unit three to four story, three and four story building in the rear of the parcel.

And then the front would have the commercial or mixed use building.

And of course, during all of this development, TJAC would be using existing hotel rooms as emergency shelter.

In response to the staff report, we want to clarify and simplify our square footage table and to summarize those changes and what you're seeing here.

The maximum building footprint square footage for mixed use is 20,000 square feet, which is in line with the comprehensive plan.

If a building happened to be retail only, then the maximum building footprint would be limited to 10,000 square feet.

and these numbers are consistent with our traffic impact analysis.

The maximum gross non-residential square footage corresponds to maximum office flex use in the comprehensive plan.

So the affordable housing plan is that VSH would develop 80 studio units and those would be 100% affordable, 100% rental for those making 50% or less AMI.

PHA plans to develop up to 60 units.

Again, it's possible that 40 of those could be in the building you're seeing and 20 could be in the front building on 29.

And those are expected to be mostly one and two bedroom units, mostly for single adults and couples, possibly up to 5% three bedroom.

And so we're putting that at 30 to 80% AMI to give some flexibility on the type of funding that comes in.

You saw this plan for pedestrian and vehicular circulation within the project.

Sidewalks are shown here connecting all of the buildings and the amenity space and in the future

potential bus stop here.

Also, BSH will provide lockers for bicycles and scooters which are popular with its residents and the development will include bike racks.

One of our changes in response to staff will be that the bus stop will be provided at the demand of the county.

So to address Premier Circle, which is a private road, it was created when these lots were subdivided.

There are seven lots here, and Premier Circle serves these seven lots, which are currently five tax map parcels, five owners using the road from the Waffle House down to Red Carpet Inn.

There is a recorded declaration that does provide for road maintenance by an association.

There's one lot, one vote per lot

and by written agreement of 80% of the owners, that road could be upgraded.

So we believe that insertion of new development along this road will make it more likely that the road would be improved.

I'll certainly defer to Timmons to discuss the traffic and road condition.

But I would say that supportive housing for very low income residents does generate far less traffic than conventional multifamily housing.

And this development is expected to house residents who largely do not have private vehicles and would depend on public transportation.

The property is within the Jaunt paratransit service area, so residents with disabilities who are unable to take public transit would have the ability to call Jaunt for

Transport directly door to door.

And also the Thomas Jefferson Planning District Commission has applied for grants from the Department of Rail and Transit that could fund improvements to the Route 29 corridor.

So this site could be transit ready when bus lines are expanded, if they are expanded, to include this site.

And we'll learn more about that funding to what extent and whether it's been funded next month.

The site has 20% green space and within that 10% amenity space that includes courtyards and gardens and of course indoor community computer and fitness rooms.

The street trees and shrubs will be compliant with the entrance corridor guidelines.

We have requested to substitute gardens in place of tot lots because we expected our residents to be primarily single adults and couples but at staff's recommendation we are going to build in a little more flexibility so that we could do tot lots and or gardens.

Fortunately

Those both require 2000 square feet.

So as development progresses, we can see what's more appropriate.

So you can see on this slide, the proposed changes that we'll introduce into our code of development so that a community garden or a top lot might be developed in these locations and then similar changes here.

And then here you can see just how those buildings would fit together on the site.

The comprehensive plan calls for a four-story maximum and so

We're looking at four stories for the central building, the BSH building, four stories and three stories for the PHA building.

Currently this front building we are proposing is two stories based on parking requirements, but since those could change, the code of development does permit that to be up to four stories.

The site would be developed in phases.

Phase one would be construction of the Virginia Supportive Housing Building, which is shown here in red, and then the associated amenity areas.

Phase two would be the PHA building, and then at that point we would need to provide

The planted buffer in the back, the 50 foot setback includes a 20 foot buffer between the site and the single family residential to the north there.

And then phase three would be development of block one with a mixed use or non residential portion along Route 29.

That phasing looks like this in a timeline.

So this project is on a very pressing timeline based on LIHTC application deadlines.

We're actually seeking to rezone no later than February so that BSH can apply the March deadline for low-income housing tax credits and then go into construction beginning 2023.

And PHA would file for LIHTC application.

It's LIHTC application in March of 2023.

for construction in 2024-25.

And of course, TJAC would be able to use existing hotel rooms immediately and throughout phase one and possibly phase two as the new buildings replace the old buildings.

So that's the core of our presentation.

Thank you.

Questions, commissioners?

So I see Jenny and Rick and Karen.

So we go Jenny, Rick, and Karen.

and Luis.

I do have several questions, but I want to just start with my first question and then I'll let it go and see what other people ask and come back to some of my other things

So I guess I was having confusion in the wording of things as if there was some sort of access to hotel rooms on an emergency basis for people in jeopardy or experiencing homelessness, particularly during the time we're in.

So I was having trouble with that piece because some of my trying to wrestle with the pedestrian safety questions that were

asking ourselves about some sort of permanency on the site.

I've been wondering that about people that may be there currently.

So I needed to know that part of it, I guess.

I think that's what I'm wrestling with the most is if people are living there now through some program or in some sort of in cooperation with the hotel as a way to avoid being homeless,

that aren't at risk already for having a dangerous crossing across 29.

And so what if there's signage that we need to put up that prevents that or things like that that we would do now.

But I guess that was my biggest question is what's the current use?

And then I do have some questions.

I don't know if there's a part that you'll talk about the services that would be delivered on site and how you would connect people with services.

because there's a part in staff's report that talks about connections with services benefits and employment opportunities.

And there's mention of someone that's on site during the day and then on site at night.

Ms.

Moore, I'm glad you asked those questions because I failed to mention during the presentation that we actually have representatives of each one of the organizations who will speak to you as soon as your public comment period starts.

So they'll be able to talk about what they're planning in a more fulsome way and talk about what's happening now and segueing into what we're proposing.

And I would like to say, if we can just contain those questions.

So these just illustrate, how do I want to say this, opening up what Laurie's presentation was before we go to the public, if we have public, and I'm trying to figure that out.

I just I guess my biggest thing was are there people living there now that you know might be making a dangerous crossing and so we're not just talking about that in the future we could be talking about that right now and then I also agree with Karen that I think there's other alternatives but we do need to be mindful that people will just like other places on 29 people might try to cross and so that's not just in this spot even though we don't want to encourage that

There's lots of places I see people making a dangerous crossing because that's the most direct path.

So I think we need to be safe and keep that in mind.

I think we need to encourage other alternatives.

But to me, it's not a deal breaker for all of this.

And I'll leave, like what Julian said, I do have some questions about the delivery of services.

I forget.

I thought it was Rick.

Yeah, I'll be happy to.

Thanks, Karen.

Lori, my question is about the community gardens that the chair referenced earlier, and the courtyard meditative garden as well.

What is the applicant's plan for

I'm sure the applicant will have more to say to that question but the plan is that this property will actually be subdivided and owned by the individual organizations and of course these are rental projects so they would be responsible for maintaining all of those outdoor amenities on their own parcels.

Well, Commissioner Randolph essentially stole my questions, but that was the same line of questioning I had.

I'd just say that

And I've seen a lot of developments, proposed community gardens, and they need somebody to be a garden manager.

You can't just say there's a plot, have at it.

The other thing I wanted to note is that I don't think they switch back and forth quite as easily.

It seems like you'll have people coming into, and I don't know how these properties are being divided up against different nonprofit providers, but you know,

You can't just like flip flop from garden to child play area.

It needs to be kind of one or the other.

And I still think that we need a place for children to play.

To Commissioner Moore's comment earlier, I mean, I don't know the personal stories of all the people living there, but I drove by them, like I said, five days a week for three and a half years.

And there were a lot of children there.

And there were people who seemed to be living there because they were in a situation where they couldn't find anywhere else to live.

So they were using that hotel as what I would call last resort housing.

So I think that we need to consider that.

And I don't think we can kind of have it just called either, or I think we need to have specific spaces for each.

And if the applicant wants to comment on that, that's fine.

Your points well taken, Ms.

Firehock, and we certainly want to provide the right amenity for the residents.

based on my conversations with the current property owner and my own observations of the site, it's operating right now more as a long-term transient housing or extended stay housing.

So that's been noted.

and others who have pieces for more.

We have Ebony Bug first.

Ebony, please unmute yourself, state your name, and if you're affiliated with someone who that is or where you live in Albemarle County.

Sure, thank you Carolyn.

My name is Ebony Bugg and I represent the Charlottesville Area Community Foundation.

I just want to pause.

I know that a number of my colleagues who are partners on this project may actually want to go before me so that they can speak to some of your questions.

Sure, that's fine.

Thanks.

Is it okay if I go first actually?

Sorry.

Okay, thank you.

If I had a little presentation, if I may,

but it says I can't share while the other participant is sharing.

There you go.

Thank you.

So my name is Anthony Haro.

I'm the executive director for Thomas Jefferson Area Coalition for the Homeless.

And I'm here to speak about this unique project in support of, you know,

meeting a lot of critical needs that the community currently faces.

And we're focused on a few that address homeless related issues that we focus on.

So first, ending homelessness was always a public health response.

But that fact has been highlighted during this pandemic.

Keeping people in safe private rooms helps keep them safe from COVID.

It also helps keep the community at large safe from COVID by limiting spread.

and the University of Washington recently released a report about using hotels as shelter during COVID-19, which we will plan to do on this site as was talked about.

And there was a number of important key findings that we've certainly felt here locally as well.

Guests felt increased feelings of stability, improved health and wellbeing, reduced interpersonal conflict, decrease in 911 call volume,

More time in general to think about next steps, future goals, and higher exits to permanent housing.

Although I have to say we have not seen that quite yet because of the lack of affordable housing in our community, but all the other key findings from this report really validate what we've seen locally as well, that using hotels during pandemic for shelter has seen a lot of really positive outcomes.

The other thing this project addresses is chronic homelessness.

So chronically, people who are chronically homeless

have been homeless a long time with health conditions.

And we've seen in our community, when the crossings opened in downtown Charlottesville, you can see in the two years following chronic homelessness dropped by half.

So we have clear evidence, local evidence that this works, that Virginia Supportive Housing's project, the crossings, worked to decrease chronic homelessness by half, which is pretty amazing.

You can see since then,

it's really been pretty flat.

And so another project is really needed to get us right to the threshold of functionally ending chronic homelessness in Charlottesville.

It's also a good investment for us locally.

So in addition to having positive impacts on people's lives who live in the project, over three years in our current model of renting from local hotels, as opposed to this model of having owned

We would save about $1.5 million or 42% moving to this type of model where it's owned as opposed to renting.

So it really is a cost savings.

Additionally, Virginia Supportive Housing has found that in other permanent supportive housing projects, they've seen a 71% decrease in guests' use from PSH.

All right, next I'm going to let Juliette Anderson speak.

Juliette, please state your name and address or who you're affiliated with.

You have three minutes and that time starts now.

Can you hear me okay?

Yes.

Great, thank you.

My name is Julie Anderson.

My address is 4115 Wythe Avenue, Richmond, Virginia, 23221, and I'm here representing Virginia Supportive Housing.

Virginia Supportive Housing is a nonprofit formed in 1988 with the missions to end homelessness.

We work along the 64 corridor from Charlottesville to Virginia Beach.

One of the ways that we meet the mission of ending homelessness is by developing affordable permanent supportive housing like the crossings at 4th and Preston in Charlottesville.

Premier Circle will be BSH's second permanent supportive housing development in the Charlottesville region.

These apartments will include 80 studio apartment units with kitchens and bathrooms.

Units will be fully furnished and the building will also include a community room, patio space, a computer room, and an exercise room.

Units will be available for individuals earning 50% or less of the area median income.

Permanent supportive housing is like a regular apartment in that residents sign leases and have their own apartment.

Supportive services are provided on site to help residents access the services they need in order to maintain housing.

BSH's supportive services staff assist residents with accessing mainstream community services and resources, engage residents in activities that promote a consistent and safe housing environment, collaborate with property management to prevent lease violations and delinquency, help individuals resolve life issues, and manage their mental health.

Supportive Services staff work with residents to ensure a strong sense of social connectedness both within the building as well as the community.

Services staff support, provide support for employment, education, and vocational endeavors, as well as transition planning as residents are ready to move on to their next choice of housing.

The building will also have onsite property management, including an assistant property manager, a desk clerk, and maintenance staff.

The front desk is staffed 16 hours a day,

and a night monitor is on call in the evenings.

We're really excited to be a part of this development and effectively ending chronic homelessness in the region.

Permanent supportive housing works.

Over 96% of our residents do not return to homelessness.

And as far as the budget concern that I believe it was Rick brought up, these properties are, maintenance is in the operating budget.

These properties are self-supporting from the rental income.

All right, next I'm going to have Chris Caulk from Piedmont Environmental Council.

Chris, you have three minutes to speak.

Good afternoon Planning Commission and staff.

My name is Chris Hawke with the Piedmont Environmental Council.

For nearly 50 years, the Piedmont Environmental Council has championed smart land use and conservation.

PEC recognizes that the vitality of our towns and cities and the health of our environment are closely linked, and we bring rural, suburban, and urban interests together to plan for the region's future.

By encouraging investment in attractive, livable urban growth areas, we relieve pressure on the rural

We advocate for growth where it makes sense, reducing the number of miles that people drive in order to reduce fuel consumption, greenhouse gas emissions, air pollution, and traffic.

PEC supports low income housing in our urban areas that provide housing located in close proximity to jobs and everyday services, resulting in lower transportation costs for residents and reduced greenhouse gas emissions.

PEC agrees with the staff recommendations and we highlight staff's concerns related to two subjects.

private roads and adequate pedestrian facilities.

Private roads should be avoided as they could cause significant fiscal impacts to future property owners and residents, especially with low income housing being involved.

This is a very important point.

PEC recommends that the county require the interior interior roads be built to the appropriate standards for incorporation into the public network.

If this is not possible due to the 80% concurrence requirement in the road maintenance agreement, PEC recommends denial.

Adequate pedestrian facilities are not available for future residents and property users to safely cross Route 29 in this application.

Given the proposed commercial and residential density of this project, EEC recommends that the county seek proposals that incorporate pedestrian facilities across and along Route 29.

In order for this proposed neighborhood model district, as well as other future projects, to have the appropriate pedestrian connectivity to the county's urban area, it is paramount that pedestrian facilities be included in this proposal.

The Places 29 master plan highlights 12 principles for both new development and redevelopment in the master plan area, and the first three principles are pedestrian orientation, neighborhood-friendly streets and paths, and interconnected streets and transportation networks.

In her recent presentation, No One is Expendable, Angie Schmidt detailed the findings of her book, Right of Way, written to address pedestrian deaths in America related to race and class disparities.

Her book and associated research highlighted multiple case studies throughout the United States detailing the impacts of limited pedestrian facilities on minority and low income populations.

Many of the cases she describes bear an uncanny likeness to 29 North and especially this area.

Low income housing is integral to creating the vibrant community envisioned in places 29.

But in that pursuit, please take into consideration the need for our streets to be safe and built to an appropriate standard for all residents.

Thank you.

Next, I have Sunshine Methon.

Good evening.

I hope everyone can hear me.

My name is Sunshan Maython.

I'm the executive director of Piedmont Housing Alliance.

I'm also a resident of Albemarle County living in the Ryowa district.

I will keep my comments short.

I want to thank both Anthony and Julie for sharing some basic details around the redevelopment overall and what I would like to highlight in particular.

is that this is actually sort of a moment in time.

This is actually an extraordinary opportunity and a collaboration of multiple nonprofit partners all striving to make increased impact overall.

And actually in my experience of the last eight to nine months is one of the very few silver linings that I've seen under the COVID era.

which is essentially that across the nation organizations like TJAC headed by Anthony have pivoted rapidly to get people who are experiencing homelessness off the street in much safer conditions in individual hotel rooms.

Pre-COVID, the possibility of effectively ending homelessness, at least people living on the street, was still a dream in many ways.

COVID and the silver lining here is that it has actually galvanized work to make that possible.

The second piece of this is that the opportunity to develop a motel into permanent supportive housing is a best practice across the United States.

In my past work in Austin, Texas, I participated in similar endeavors multiple times.

And it's commonly used across the nation as a way to rapidly develop and address homelessness issues by providing permanent supportive, safe and vibrant housing.

So I just want to highlight that this truly is a moment in time.

The fact that these organizations are coming together

under a common vision, under common purpose is highly reflective of the desire of our community as a whole to increase the level of impact, increase the level of collaboration so that we can effectively end homelessness in our region and provide additional affordable housing that's critically needed for people across the spectrum.

Thank you.

Ebony, it's now your turn.

Thank you, Ms.

Shaffer.

My name is Ebony Bugg.

My address is 1113 Cottonwood Road 22901, and I am here representing the Charlottesville Area Community Foundation and myself as a resident of Albemarle County.

I want to name that our entire

Staff and Board is in support of this project and poised to make a $4.7 million investment in this development to support both short and long term plan to address chronic homelessness in our community.

It is important to note that this development would mark an extraordinary improvement on the current status of the development in that particular area on Premier Circle.

and Solve, one of the most essential issues of our time.

I want to note that homelessness in particular during the global pandemic is a public health crisis in addition to a basic human right and we are at a unique moment and can

provide safe and stable housing for people in the interim as well as long term supportive housing and services to help them navigate the world.

As a county resident, I do concur with the comments and some of the concerns made related to the

pedestrian crossing and right of ways.

At the foundation, we are also supporters of PEC and recognize the work that they are doing.

However, we do not necessarily feel that this development should bear the full brunt of the pedestrian needs and that as a resident, I believe that the county can work with these nonprofit entities to ensure that municipal funding and support can be used to support the infrastructure and updates

needed to make this a success.

As a social worker providing clinical services in the area, I also cannot underestimate the intersection of housing stability and its impact on stress and well-being across the lifespan.

And finally, as an individual who has experienced homelessness, I can't understand the importance of this project and what that means for individuals who are most vulnerable in our community.

Thank you very much.

Are there questions for the applicant before we close the public hearing?

And are there questions for the applicant?

Actually, Commissioner Bailey, you can go ahead first.

Thanks.

I just want to follow up on the additional information that was provided by Mr. Harrow, Ms.

Anderson.

Just clarification, Ms.

Anderson mentioned that there was maintenance in the operating budget.

I think I was wanting to understand a little bit more, does this operating budget include

Lori, do you want to handle that on behalf of your clients?

I need to defer to Julie on that question.

I'll complete the second part of the question, which is related if that's okay, Commissioner Bivins, which is, Mr. Harrow, you mentioned that this was expected to save 1.5 million per year.

That number is about basically what we're paying right now to shelter vulnerable folks in hotels because of this pandemic.

Those costs projected over three years versus the operating costs

Should this project move forward to use the existing hotel rooms at Red Carpet Inn, those costs over three years would save about 42%.

And those costs included maintenance of the property, but not maintenance of the road.

Yes.

I'm good.

I guess my question is more for the program of the non-residential spaces in light of the conversations we've had about crossing the street and so forth.

Mr. Clayborne,

Andy Miller from PHA has looked into a number of different options with nonprofit organizations and others.

He's on with us right now.

I'll let him elaborate.

But I think those conversations are ongoing.

I don't know if that's one that he's looked into.

Sure, and I guess I'll ask a clarifying question first.

I believe the commercial space.

So thank you.

So we've had some preliminary conversations.

I mean, ideally what we've looked at is talking to partner organizations, other nonprofits that might utilize that space for either office space or other uses that would essentially work well with the overall development.

That particular use that you've mentioned, we haven't had that discussion just because that hasn't been

hasn't been brought up in the conversations that we've had.

What I will say is that the conversations we've had have been very early in the process just because that parcel is not positioned to be developed for another probably two years or three years at this point.

And so we have some time to look into that.

And so that's one of the things that we could look into as well.

having trouble unmuting.

I have a question about the homelessness and given the timeline that we've seen, how many years do you anticipate there being some portion of Red Roof in available for homelessness?

Sure, thank you.

I can answer that.

Just for clarification too, I think you mean red carpet, right?

Yeah, okay.

So, you know, we anticipate using it for basically as long as we can.

In the phasing, we talked about in phase one or immediately into phase one and then potentially into phase two.

The number of rooms that we'll have access to because of the development will decrease as we move through the different phases but we are looking at the other potential for the site as well for that other plot to potentially have some level of addressing homelessness but right now really the sheltering for the next phase one and into phase two is the use

Thank you so much for having me.

The biggest limiting factor right now is affordable units in the community for us to help people move out of homelessness.

So, and again, those of us that are aware of

Virginia supportive housing and had an opportunity to follow the crossing in Charlottesville have been quite impressed with this whole continuum.

So yes, I understand that.

But I'm just trying to get a sense of the timeline.

And then if you have been successful

in securing another facility like this since, as you showed the data and we're all aware, I think, of the data of the positive use of retrofitting hotels and motels for this sort of thing.

You would have to go back to your rental model at the end of this.

You know, there's a lot of things up in the air in COVID.

Obviously there's a vaccine, but we also don't know what that's going to look like moving into the future in terms of spread still occurring in our community.

So we are preparing for needing to shelter in private rooms for the foreseeable future.

And so at the end of this three to five years, it may, you know, homelessness will look drastically different.

This project will drastically change how our system works for the better.

But I still, you know, there will always be a need for emergency shelter for people that fall into homelessness.

We will always have that need in our community.

Our goal is to be able to get people back into housing quickly so they don't have to stay in emergency shelter for more than 30 days.

So we will still need emergency shelter and, you know, there still is the Salvation Army which offers year-round emergency shelter.

We also have other options for shelter through Pacham, for seasonal shelter.

Other questions for... So if I could just clarify, you know, that we're asking you questions now.

Sure, go ahead, sorry.

We heard that I think it's VSH is going to have permanent accessible units.

I think that's what we were told.

But we weren't told whether or not the PHA units, whether or not the 40 or the 60 would be permanently income accessible.

Sorry, this is Andy Miller.

I'm the real estate development director for People Housing Alliance.

So if I understand your question correctly, you're asking if essentially what percentage of our units would be affordable?

And for how long?

Is that the crux of the question?

That's it.

Sure.

So in terms of the affordability, so we also, just like VSH, will be looking to utilize low-income housing tax credits for all of our units, so all 60, which brings with it 15- and 30-year requirements for affordability.

And we would be working with Stacey Pethia.

of the county on those units.

And then just because we addressed it in terms of accessibility, our project would be elevated or served.

And if I might ask, there was some comment that there might be units on the second floor of the building in block one.

That's right.

That block could be mixed use.

Are there other questions?

Thank you.

Well then, everyone, I'm going to bring this back to us so that we can move forward with a recommendation.

I have a staff question if Kevin is still around.

He is.

I am.

This is an unfair question, but I'm going to ask you to try to delve into your experience.

Because often we start off with private streets and then they are gifted to the county.

Could you put some sort of guesstimate range on what it would cost to bring

the street up the full length of the street.

I'm afraid I can't really make an estimate on that because we don't know.

We've requested a condition assessment of the road from the applicant, and we don't know what that's built like.

So I don't know if that takes simply a resurfacing or if it's going to actually take getting into subgrade to bring it up to VDOT standards.

The costs for that kind of thing are

Wildly different.

You know, paving would be $10,000 maybe, but if they have to rip out that road and rebuild it from the beginning, then you are talking like hundreds of thousands of dollars.

And then I assume the other component of this is that there are multiple

That's correct.

And you can't give us out of the books what a linear foot with that width of just resurfacing as opposed to a completely new road with base and sidewalk, curb and gutter sidewalks would be.

Yeah, I would say that we have an engineer on the call from the applicant and he may be able to get something a little bit closer than I would.

So if you wanted to ask Mr. Katarski from Timmons Group who we work with a lot and I know they make estimates like this for other projects, maybe he could get a good guess.

Nice handoff.

Fair enough.

Good evening, everyone.

Did you identify yourself, sir?

Yes, Craig Kutarski with Timmons Group, civil engineering firm.

I think to best answer that question, it would depend on what you have to do.

As far as what we have done and looked at at this point,

We have seen that there is more of a thickness of asphalt.

If you think about a road, it's asphalt over stone, right?

You get a stone base and you got asphalt over top of it.

The thickness of the asphalt is where the primary strength comes from.

We've got somewhere in the neighborhood of three and a half to four inches of asphalt over stone from what we've seen here.

That's not really

I don't know really what we would see for a VDOT road, but I think more troubling from a VDOT acceptance is actually a lot of the geometry that is a part of this road and I think Commissioner Firehock kind of described that from her experience.

Previously, one of the things that I think is important to note, and I'm going to answer your question on a cost estimate.

One of the things I do think is important to note is that the use that we're looking at is actually a significant reduction in what could be developed by right from a traffic and transportation perspective.

So

A few years ago, we actually filed a site plan for a Lidl on this site.

And this application is showing about 30% of the traffic being generated from this application versus that BuyRight grocery store.

The other thing that I'll note too real quickly is that there is not good data for an affordable housing development such as this.

So that when I'm saying that it's 30% of the legal, that's actually assuming market rate apartments because we just don't have good data.

But more so what we have had with conversations with PHA and other applicants here is we actually think that that number is probably even lower, probably about 20%, if not somewhere lower than that.

As far as if you were to go through and pull up all of the asphalt and repave and kind of build it to standards, you're easily looking at half a million dollars probably north of that.

Anyone else?

Tim.

Well, I think that we have amongst all of us who I would imagine

given where we have been on other things are very positively inclined towards what this project is trying to achieve.

And we have outlined a number of significant issues in terms of the site plan and the lack of significant open space with that.

And in terms of the road

and the pedestrian access across 29.

And maybe there are others, but those three really stood out in my notes as I've been thinking about this and listening to this.

And we've been given a figure for the crossing if it was possible.

And we've been given a figure for the road reworking if it was possible.

So I think that we have to look in light of what we were just

doing last week with our supervisors and think about and the work that so many staff members, community members, and we appointed and elected officials have put into thinking about affordable housing and decide whether this is, as you have said from the dais a number of times, Chair, whether this is a point where the county or because there are

other nonprofits besides the housing nonprofits involved in this are willing to put some dollars in the bucket to make this be the kind of project that we would all like it to be.

So that's where I find myself.

It seems to me that the

Street should be brought to standard and that there should be some significant thought about pedestrian access across 29.

And in terms of the applicant, some more serious thought to how open space is going to work on this site plan other than just building footprints.

Who would like to continue that or add Corey?

Mr. Chair, if my audio starts failing, I'll turn my camera off.

I feel like my internet's been lagging tonight.

I agree with the staff report.

I think regarding the issue about crossing 29, I think that is a long-term issue as well.

I recall us having the same conversation in our foreign-based code work session.

That's not anything that's going to go away anytime soon.

So I guess where I'm at with this is that I love this project.

I think it's a beautiful collaboration.

And of all the work sessions that we've sat through,

To me, this is what I get out of bed for as a planning commissioner is these kinds of projects that have this kind of community impact, right?

The affordable housing and then homelessness is a redevelopment.

The list goes on.

I just want to put a pause before we go to Karen.

He's saying that now before the birth of his next child,

When the birth of the next child occurs, it'll be interesting what he says about getting out of bed.

I just want us all to just sort of keep that in mind, what Commissioner Clayborne just shared with us.

I'll try to be brief.

I also really do support this project.

I do want to just reiterate, I don't think we should hang our hats on trying to get across Route 29.

I did look up at the chair's suggestion how far it would be to get to the next mall up the road, Shoppers World, and it's one half mile.

So that is walkable with a grocery cart or a backpack.

So I'd even be more interested in looking at options for a shuttle that could take people to different places before I would spend money on trying to get across Route 29.

Honestly, I don't even want to encourage that at that location.

I used to have my office overlooked at that road, that exact spot, and I saw multiple car crashes there every month.

I mean, you can look up the accident date yourselves, but a lot of fender benders, a lot of stuff that probably wasn't even reported.

So people are driving really fast through there.

The other thing, I just want to go back to the open space question.

I think we should follow staff's recommendation for a park that is usable as a park.

The applicant mentioned tot lots.

I wasn't necessarily suggesting a tot lot with mini jungle gyms.

You know, as the population changes on the site, if there happens to be more children at one point or more adults or more teenagers, that is a site that's flexible that can be used by different audiences.

It's really important to get outside.

If you look at when I, like I said, I was there every day and I would see people like, you know, bringing a chair out of their motel room to try to find a place to just sit outside and enjoy the day.

So people need a place to congregate outside, especially if you're living in a motel room, you don't have balconies, you don't have other ways to be outside.

So I'd like us to follow staff's recommendation on the request for an actual little park space or several park spaces.

I agree with what others have said already.

And I think Karen kind of wrapped up

the points I wanted to make about you know really not pushing the this we have to cross 29 type of situation because I don't think that I think there's other alternatives that are safer and I do think to the points that we've raised concerns staff has addressed that in their report I think I would guess obviously everyone's gonna speak for themselves but all of us most of us would support something like this

enthusiastically and just that our line of questioning has been only to provide feedback and protection for those involved about what might be out there as far as financial responsibility.

And I do hope to what others commented about that, you know, there are other resources in the county could play a part in some of the financing and other nonprofits could step up to help bridge the gap where there are financial gaps.

So I really do support this and I definitely agree that I would rather see money go into other types of things than a crossing across 29.

But I do agree with I think what Rick said or somewhat maybe it was Karen that there should be cautionary tales as there are for many places along 29 about those who choose to cross and we encourage people not to do that.

That's all I have.

I'm overwhelmingly enthusiastic about this project, both conceptually, organizationally.

I am concerned, however, about the potential tragedy of the commons for the green space and for the gardens and meditative garden proposed here.

And the tragedy of the commons is that through collective action of all three of these organizations committed to a public service mission of meeting the needs of their residents and the people they serve, that over time, the resources that are there, which are green and to be shared in commons with one another,

will be devalued or depleted with time.

So I would like to see at the board level some proposal here and how to address that either through a collective organization like a homeowners association with all the businesses that are here.

in this location, pay in on an annual basis to maintain the green space that will be utilized by all.

Otherwise, I really do worry that over time, the green space will become degraded and will not be the quality space that all of us are hoping for.

Is there anyone else?

Can you hear me?

Yes, we hear you.

My AirPods, I thought they died there for a second.

So yeah, I really appreciate Commissioner Keller's exhortation that he laid there around thinking about

as we just recently had the joint meeting with the Board of Supervisors of where the county can step up and support some of these, what I think is a very innovative plan to address chronic homelessness that these three organizations have put together.

So I do appreciate that and in favor of it.

I think the, I won't restate everything, but I think it's been well covered

In addition to that, in addition to what has been stated by commissioners, I think, you know, having a plan for our maintenance until a additional for that road and operating budget, in addition to the green spaces, as Commissioner Randolph just mentioned, should be something that they should, you know, be able to speak to as it's brought in front of the board until we have until the county

knows how they're going to do it because it is a private road, specifically for the portion that directly abuts their properties.

And I guess the other thing that I just would caution is that I know putting up signage, and we've said this, and we're not encouraging people to cross 29, but I would just note that directly across 29 in addition to Food Line is Big Lots and other very, you know,

attractive places to go both for young children as well as adults.

And so I think not losing sight of that and figuring out how we're going to address or help, you know, I don't know if it's partly with the education component with the community and these nonprofits of helping and or shuttle as has been mentioned, but some component there that the

community of these nonprofits can help with either facilitating the movement across 29 or helping to educate the relevant home citizens of this area on how they can move safely through the area.

So with that, I'll put it to you.

Okay, is there anyone else who'd like to speak, Luis or me?

So I will just say just a very quick thing.

So I will be clear that I actually support the elements of the project.

I have struggled with the location of the project.

I will just be really frank with you, but everyone about that.

And so I want to be very clear about what I'm saying.

So the collaboration,

That's nothing to do with the collaboration.

That has nothing to do with the goal, but it does have to do with whether or not I'm, as I said earlier, the whole idea of losing a prime

or shifting a prime commercial space to a space that as I've learned here is going to be predominantly engaged in residential, even absolutely the top notch and most honorable of residential projects is something that I'm just struggling with.

I struggle with that given the county's hard lines on what we call considered development and what we consider non-development space.

in the county.

So I need to say that.

And I need to say that in a way that people hear me say that I am not against this project, but I am struggling with, I have struggled with the location of this project.

And so I want to sort of have that noted, this comment, because perhaps the people who this will go to, they'll have another idea about this.

I think that all of us have said absolutely some important

have raised some important issues that hopefully our supervisors will embrace about whether or not this is one of the types of projects that they feel that they want to engage with further, but that's not us, it's for us to suggest and for them to then allocate things, really allocate things.

And we can see our previous supervisor looking at me cross-eyed on that, but that what we are doing is suggesting that this is an idea which is worthy.

And so I support it too.

I support the project.

And given that this is what we have before us, this particular ZMA is what we

ZTA is what we have before us.

I think that's what I have to work with.

I can't work with another piece of land.

I've got to work with this piece of land.

And so I will be supporting this activity at this piece of land.

But my preference would be that it was at a different piece of land that didn't have as much infrastructure needed to be invested.

And that, in fact, would sit in an area that was, that hit most of those, the neighborhood models a lot easier, that it was integrated

and the pedestrians.

It was integrated with different kinds of houses that all of us here who typically have issues around having only one type of housing, that's an exception that we're gonna have to deal with whether or not we're okay with just one housing type.

Staff has recommended that there are other housing types around.

So that's actually quite helpful.

But many of us have been uneasy about letting projects go that only have one housing type on it.

Would you put those up and then we can look at the conditions, please?

Would you walk us?

Yeah, so what I put together here is with the changes, those four changes, and I can go back to them if anybody wants to look at them again that I outlined it in the staff report.

It may be helpful if we get back up to that page, please.

So what I've heard this evening from a couple of commissioners, just to recap a little bit, is that the open space and green space, I heard from a number of commissioners that needed to be addressed, recreational

allowing more flexibility to change over time in the maintenance of those areas.

The road was mentioned, the premier circle road was mentioned in the maintenance and adequacy of the standard of that road.

There were two different things mentioned regarding the pedestrian access, a couple of commissioners

you know, not hanging our hats on the crossing and it should be for the future.

Another couple want that to be considered moving forward, that concern to be addressed.

So those are the items that I've listed here in addition to the minor changes that I had mentioned in

Thank you.

Would you like me to put up the motion or the changes?

Yeah, I would have one quick question just to make sure I'm understanding on the point number two where you talked about for kids and another came up, but there was some additional questions about more flexible.

No, currently there are a number of amenities listed within the code of development, one of which is not a playground or play space for children.

And so I recommended that that be added to the code of development.

So allow that flexibility so they can provide those amenities that they outlined in the code of development or a play area.

That was one of the ones that I felt was missing from the list.

But if the commission thinks that another one should be added, certainly

Got it, that makes sense.

So on that clarification, I would like to make a motion.

If it please the chair and I move to recommend approval of SMA 2020

0011 Premier Circle for the reasons stated in the staff report and with the changes recommended by staff outlined in the staff report to be addressed prior to the Board of Supervisors public hearing.

Is there a second?

Seconded by Mr. Keller, ZMA-2020-11 Premier Circle.

Are there any further discussion?

I can't see.

I have to go a little bit.

I'm sorry.

I have to go a little bit further.

Any further discussion?

All right, Mr. Clayborne.

Aye.

Ms.

Mr. Randolph.

Aye.

Ms.

Firehock.

Yes.

Mr. Keller.

Aye.

Aye.

So, Laurie, there should

So you've heard the commissions.

I think no one should take away from this that we are not pleased and not supportive, but there are a number of questions that we believe would be helpful for you and your clients to be able to be actively engaged in responding to when you go before our supervisors.

Oops, we just moved.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Commissioners.

We appreciate all your well thought out comments, and we will certainly work on those before the board hearing.

Oh, we have an exception.

Those exceptions are an exception.

Correct.

One, okay.

Is there a second?

Second.

Seconded by Tim.

Further discussion?

All right.

Mr. Claybourn.

Aye.

Ms.

Mr. Randolph.

Aye.

Ms.

Firehock.

Yes.

Mr. Keller.

Aye.

Mr. Bailey.

There you go, that's passed.

And so even though I was a moment away, I got saved by the council.

You have again, you have that to go with you when you go to the young supervisors.

Thank you again.

Thank you, you too.

Okay folks, we have another one right now.

Do we need a moment or can we push on?

Push on.

Who said ooh?

That was me, can we have a moment?

How long of a moment?

Two minutes, at least.

Corey?

Okay, okay, I'll see you all back here

And if it's later than 8.10, we're rolling.

Leave the keys in the ignition.

All right.

Doing well.

All right.

I don't know if we had public comments then when we had some signed up ahead of time.

Oh, OK.

But we do have our applicants ready.

OK.

Oh, isn't that something?

So I see.

Oh, and there she is.

She's coming.

Welcome back.

I think I can put a little glasses so I can see again.

Oh, look, there's everybody.

It's a funny thing.

We're going to have perhaps, what, 12 hours of bad weather today, tomorrow, over the night?

And we had to go someplace to do something.

And you would have thought that people were stocking up for like a week's worth of snow.

I felt really embarrassed.

I had like one thing I needed to get.

It's like, oh, what am I missing here?

There's like carts spilling over with food.

That's right.

It'll all freeze.

Just stick it out in the cold.

All right.

Let's see.

I've got, there's Andy.

Where's Andy?

Fine.

Is the applicant on?

Is your applicant on?

Okay, okay.

So it's 2010, you know, we're rolling folks, let's go.

Okay.

Oh, well, hold on, I have to do this appropriately.

I guess not.

Good evening commissioners.

My name is Andy Bridalbock and I'm a senior planner with Albemarle County Planning Division.

And before I went any further, I just wanted to make sure that everyone can hear me and my screen is sharing appropriately.

Okay, so tonight we have both a special use permit application and an associated special exception application, SP 2020-15 and SE 2020-22 for the Animal Wellness Center.

The property for the Animal Wellness Center is at 1100 Crozet Avenue, right south of downtown Crozet in the Jarman's Gap intersection with Crozet Avenue.

You can see to the north is Methodist and Crozet Library, and then directly to the south of the subject property is a county-owned stormwater management property that is used to manage most of the stormwater that comes from downtown Crozet.

A brief overview of this proposal.

The property is 3.4 acres.

Currently, there's an existing building with a currently operating vet clinic on the property.

The zoning is DCD, Downtown Crozet District.

Overlay districts include the entrance corridor and the flood hazard overlay district, which is in the far western portion of the property along Palace Creek.

And in the Crozet Master Plan, it is designated as downtown and green space.

So the applicant is proposing to amend SP 2008-09, which was originally opened back in October of 2009.

And with this request, the applicant is asking to expand the existing veterinary clinic with several different parts, including an expansion of her existing one-story building by adding approximately 3,600 square feet to it.

the construction of additional parking, the construction of an additional building at the front of the property right along Crozet Avenue, as well as permitting the option to provide overnight animal boarding services along with the vet clinic.

And then as I mentioned, there's a request for a special exception as well.

And this is to section 18-5.1.11b of the zoning ordinance, which

The location of the proposed veterinary use

from what the zoning map designates as residential property lines.

However, residential structures in those residential districts do lie more than 200 feet from the intended veterinary clinic buildings.

And as a part of this, the applicant has proposed sound attenuation strategies in the construction and expansion of the vet clinic to ensure that the noise limit complies with the 55 decibel requirement that is stated in the zoning documents.

This is just a map of the zoning district showing the property, DCD.

There is R2 to the east, south, and west, and then everything to the north, really, DCD.

In the comprehensive plan, the property is designated as downtown for about two-thirds to three-fourths of the property, and then only the very rear portion of the property within the Palace Creek stream buffer and flood hazard area is designated as green space.

Other areas to the north of the property are designated as downtown with a few small areas of institutional around the library or mixed use.

And then across the street to the east is designated as neighborhood density residential.

This is a

A screenshot of the concept plan that the applicant is proposing.

They're actually proposing to construct this project in two phases.

So the first phase would be to expand their existing veterinary clinic, the existing building, and add some additional parking.

And then the second phase, which this plan shows the fully built out proposal, has the additional building shown up at the front along Crozet Avenue as well as some more additional parking to accommodate that building.

And then in the rear behind the existing building, the applicant is proposing an outdoor animal exercise area kind of between the building and the Palace Creek stream buffer.

There are a couple recommended revisions to the concept plan recommended by staff.

The first is that currently there is a proposed parking area shown to be on top of a county of Albemarle public drainage easement.

And I can show you that is this parking area right kind of in the center of my screen to the left of the existing building that is on top of a county drainage easement.

and currently the facilities and environmental services department which regulates and maintains that easement for the county has stated that they will not permit construction of a parking area within the boundaries of that easement and so that parking area needs to be removed from the concept plan along with

However, I will note that the applicant has indicated that they're continuing to discuss this issue as to determine whether some disturbance may be permitted.

And so if FEZ does provide a letter or email to the planning division prior to the Board of Supervisors public hearing indicating that a certain level of disturbance might be permitted within that easement, planning staff acknowledges that the concept plan could be revised accordingly depending on what FEZ says prior to that board meeting.

And then the other recommended revision is to revise note one on sheet six just to ensure compliance with what the zoning ordinance requires.

Factors for consideration include several factors favorable.

The proposed use is consistent with the Crozet master plan.

The proposed use is located within the development areas and is consistent with the uses identified for areas designated as downtown Crozet.

And there are no adverse impacts are expected to the nearby or adjacent properties.

In staff's review, there were no unfavorable factors identified.

Thus, staff recommends approval of Special Use Permit SP 2020-15 Animal Wellness Center with the following conditions and also provided that the previously mentioned recommended revisions are made to the application prior

These recommended conditions include what is generally standard condition for special use permits that the development of the use must be in general accord with the concept plan that was provided including certain major elements such as location of the buildings, the proposed additions, the parking areas in the outdoor animal exercise area, and of course minor modifications to the plan which do not conflict with those elements above may be made to ensure compliance with the zone

The final site plan approval is subject to approval of

the landscape plan by the architectural review board and that the landscaping may be required to be in excess of what is required by the guidelines or zoning ordinance to mitigate the visual impacts of the proposed use.

I will say that the applicant has requested a few minor

changes in the wording to these conditions and staff is willing to work in consultation with the zoning division and the county attorney's office to hammer out any final wording and any final wording changes prior to the board of supervisors public hearing.

And then with the special exception, staff also recommends approval of the special exception as the 2020-22 with the following conditions.

The first condition is the same as the first condition for the special use permit.

And then the second condition is that the buildings used for the vet clinic and animal overnight boarding uses must be air conditioned and soundproofed so that the sound measured at the nearest agricultural or residential property line shall not exceed 55 decibels to maintain that compliance with those regulations in the zoning ordinance.

And then prior to the issuance of the building permit, the applicant must submit information

That sound limit can be met.

These are the suggested motions for the future part of the meeting tonight when we get to that section.

And I'm available for any questions, if you have any.

Thank you.

No.

No questions.

I have a question.

On the second building, which we're saying will be 20 feet from, I guess from 29.

It looks like there's a zero lot line going north to the adjacent property.

I would hope that the applicant would speak to that because, you know, green trees like fences make good neighbors.

Good evening, Mr. Chairman.

This is Valerie Long.

I just want to first check that everyone can hear me okay.

Great, thank you.

I'm here with our client, the applicant, Dr. Hillary Cook of Animal Wellness Center.

We are in the same room in my office's conference room, which is why I was masked earlier.

And she's masked now.

It's easier for us to communicate if we're in the same room.

So we appreciate your understanding and patience of that.

I have also some similar slides.

Great, great.

All right.

I'm going to go quickly through because I think everyone is generally familiar with the location.

It's on the edge of the Crozet downtown area.

Here's another view just to provide some context with the surrounding neighborhoods and the surrounding downtown area.

This is a close-up of the property as it exists today from the county's GIS mapping website.

So you can see the size of the parcel.

This is a photograph of the existing building with obviously the parking in front.

As we described in our application, one of the biggest challenges, even now prior to expansion of the practice, is the shortage of parking.

Some other views from Crozet Avenue.

These were taken from Google Street View.

Some of these were taken on site showing views from Carsey Avenue, the existing parking lot.

And in the lower right corner, that is a bridge that was constructed when the drainage easement, which I'll talk about in a moment, was built.

That just leads back to the floodplain area.

Again, another view from Carsey Avenue.

From various directions, you can see the relation of the building to the road and the existing sidewalk.

As was shown earlier, the zoning is downtown Crozet District.

This is on the edge of it.

We think it's really a perfect transitional use.

Dr. Cook has had this business here since 2008 when she obtained her first special use permit.

It's worked out very well.

They've not had any complaints or issues with neighbors of any kind.

And the parcel to the south, if you can see my cursor, parcel 11, is now owned by the county.

It's essentially a natural wetland area.

The comprehensive plan from the master plan, the developable portions of the property are shown as downtown district or designation and obviously the floodplain area is green space, as is areas on other sides.

The floodplain is quite large in this area, so we wanted to show the extent to which the limits of the floodplain limits the expansion of the business in the buildable areas.

and this is a close-up of the floodplain in relation to the existing building and parking lot.

I'll go ahead and point out, you'll see on some subsequent slides the drainage area.

There's an old, I mean a very small creek in this location.

This is generally the location of the drainage air easement that was put in place back, I believe it was part of the downtown Crozet streetscape project.

This is the small bridge that was built to provide some access to the back.

This is just a storage shed.

and again you can see the existing parking.

This is probably the only time you'll ever see so few parking or so many vehicles in the parking space.

Dr. Cook tells me and I can attest as a customer of the business that the lot is almost always full.

This is another image that shows a little bit better of the relationship of the buildings and the floodplain and the drainage easement.

My next slide is a close up of this, actually different slide.

This shows you for context, the limitation of the buildable area of the site.

We obviously have over an acre and a half of the parcel is floodplain.

We have just over one acre that's actually developable, even though the entire parcel is three and a half acres.

And the drainage easement alone takes up over a quarter of an acre.

And as you can see, it surrounds the buildable area on three sides.

So it creates a lot of constraints.

I need to move this other window out of my way.

This shows the original plan that we had when we submitted the application.

The idea for context, the darker tan is the existing building.

The plan was to add a small addition to the building in this location and then add a new building here for expansion.

In the meantime, Dr. Cook has been working with prospective general contractors and architects and others.

She's also working with the landowner who she has the land under contract.

The land is very expensive.

As you all may know, construction prices are extraordinarily expensive right now.

So we have a slight modification, which I'll show you on the next sheet.

Again, sorry, this was a close up of the original plan that shows you a little bit better.

Existing building, addition, and then addition.

This is the new plan.

Next slide's a close-up.

Shows, again, existing building, small addition here.

And instead, the initial expansion or phase one of the expansion would also be to bump the building out in the front.

It's basically doubling the size of the building there.

And then the second phase of the expansion would occur in this building in front.

As part of that, there would be an expansion of the parking space, parking lot here, also additional parking located on the side of the driveway.

There's room for about 11 perpendicular spaces here and two parallel spaces here.

As Mr. Reilback discussed earlier, we do show on our plans some proposed parking in the back.

We understand that may not ultimately be permitted, but we do want to continue working with the facilities and environmental services staff to see if there might be a way to either perhaps relocate the drainage easement or build a smaller parking lot on the far side of that area if that's viable.

So we'd like to leave that in place if we could.

If not, we understand and then that would mean that there would definitely need to be more interim expansion of this parking lot as part of the first phase of development.

Again, this shows the revised plans in somewhat of a, this is a conceptual interim condition, what it might look like after the first phase of expansion.

Again, the building would be here.

This is essentially the same parking lot.

There's a few additional spaces.

Again, it shows the parking here.

So if this parking is not permitted, then even during the interim condition with the building here, we go ahead and add the parking spaces

along the side, and possibly go ahead and expand here.

And I have some slides that will show that a little bit better.

But we did want to show that even in the interim condition, before there's the final building here close to Crozet Avenue, that we know that the Architectural Review Board as part of a site plan review will likely require additional landscaping.

We understand that the parking lot will need to be screened.

So this is just conceptual.

All would be subject to final approval by the ARB.

This is a little bit better example or image of what the interim condition would likely look like.

This is one of two options.

Again, for context, this is the expanded building.

You can see, again, for context, that's the outline of the drainage easement in back.

So there's no parking shown here.

Go ahead and add these parking spaces along the side of the driveway.

This is essentially the same parking lot as is there now with the addition, about the same size, a few additional spaces.

This would provide for 29 spaces.

Dr. Cook already has 20 employees.

She's working hard to add an additional doctor to her staff, which would also result in four additional staff members.

So ideally, she's hoping to try to get to 25 employees, which means that 29 spaces would really not be enough given

how many customers they have right now.

So we have another option.

This would probably be the more likely scenario during the interim condition where we go ahead and add the parking spaces along the south on the driveway and then go ahead and expand the parking lot fully.

And then obviously there's still room for the final building there once that is, once she's ready for that.

And this is, again, just the version of the plans showing that full build out with just more detail.

I thought the prior slide was a little bit easier for you all to see and understand.

That's really all that we have in terms of the plans themselves.

We're happy to answer any questions that may come up with regard to Dr. Cook's practice.

If I may, I'll go ahead and address your question, Mr. Bivins, about landscaping.

As Mr. Reilbeck indicated, it's not required here because there's a zero setback there.

The owner of this parcel to the north is the same owner of this parcel currently that Dr. Cook has it under contract with, so they've been working very closely.

I would say this plan would not preclude landscaping in that location.

for ultimately determined to be needed or appropriate.

We're not showing it because the land, the site is so constrained by the floodplain and the drainage easement.

We're trying to preserve as much of the developable space on site as possible and leave a little bit more space, get my cursor going, along between the building and Crozet Avenue for appropriate amounts of plantings there.

So that's that.

We do have the special exception.

We're agreeable to those conditions.

I think that's everything that we have.

We're fine with the conditions for the special exception, for the soundproofing.

We know that's standard.

The residences are more than 200 feet away themselves, although the lot lines are not.

And one question that came up from a few members of the public was whether there would be outdoor, you know, with dogs would be outdoors at night or anything like that.

And there's no outdoor pens or outdoor runs of any kind that are proposed or that would be allowed.

So everything would be indoors within air conditioned and soundproofed buildings.

I think that's all we have.

Are there questions on the presentation?

I'm not too familiar with the programming of, I guess, veterinarian clinics.

Will there be a dumpster on site?

Yes, there would be behind the building.

Let me go back to my slides, if I may.

Sorry, I have to move this other out of the way.

Okay.

So right now, again, let me go maybe one back.

It's probably easier to show.

You all see this still?

So it would probably be back here somewhere, not in the drainage area, but somewhere back here or perhaps back in this back, you know, on behind the parking area or to the side.

Sure.

And then the second question, and this might be considered detailed at the concept phase, but it's such a tight site.

I know you all are certainly thinking about it, but for that building that would be fronting the street, the proposed addition, I know it's really tight up there.

Where do you think that utilities and so forth would be coming in?

Understanding that the back of the building is really the front.

because you're facing the street and has ARB review and so forth.

Let me go to the next slide that will show that a little better.

You're right.

And excuse me, I should have mentioned at the beginning of my presentation that Justin Shimp with Shimp Engineering is the civil engineer for the project and he is on with us as well.

So he may want to jump in.

He's probably looked at that more carefully than I have, but you're exactly right.

It is a tight site.

were actually set back, you know, the standard is that it be 10 feet from, no more than 10 feet from the road.

Staff is willing to accommodate and grant the, the ordinance allows the staff to approve it being no more than 20 feet back, which is what we have shown there.

And among other things that's necessary because it's a little hard to see, but the red underneath

This area is the portion of the drainage easement that goes across the front of the parcel.

So it is very constrained.

I believe that there are a number of utilities on site now.

I know that there's water and sewer line easements along the back.

There's overhead power here and throughout, but we'd obviously have to work all of those things out at the site plan level.

Hey, Justin Schimpf, the engineer for the project.

Nothing really to add.

Your question is certainly a good one.

If you were dealing with a 10-foot setback, maximum setback, that gets very challenging.

But 20 is a little more reasonable.

We work in the city with five and 10, and we get into problems with transformers at all sorts of weird places.

In this case, the power is off the side, so we can put our transformer off the side of the access road and use conduit to get underneath.

Corey, are you okay?

So Luis and then Karen and then Jenny.

My question that really has to do with the storm drain, and maybe Justin can give us a little bit more detail about the general strategy.

It is a sensitive site from a storm drain standpoint.

And perhaps where you're showing that parking lot in the back, I just wonder if,

Yes, you're correct.

We didn't realize it at first because it's not recorded as such, but that drainage easement is actually effectively a stormwater management easement.

And so we're trying to work out the count.

We've had some conversations with the facilities folks is that

They are not opposed to the idea of that pipe being, or that channel.

They built basically an engineered channel to natural conditions to provide some stormwater quality components as part of the phase one streetscape project.

and so that they would like to stay or if it's impacted to see it relocated in a way that provides equal or greater stormwater measures than existed currently.

So that's kind of the detail working through.

But yes, you're right.

It is a storm, it's an engineered stormwater feature.

It was not a natural item.

It was a small, very small channel that went through that the county re-engineered as a stormwater measure and it could be relocated.

meandering around the parking lot and even increasing the length and then, in theory, increasing its effectiveness as well.

Yeah, so I guess my suggestion is as you work through these negotiations, perhaps you can offer a strategy that helps not only with the quantity, but also with the quality because you're going to get a lot of

Sure, understood that is that I think would be part of the program if that is permitted to be moved.

Thank you.

Yeah, I'll be quick.

I had questions along the same lines.

I was wondering where and how stormwater was going to be handled because I just went through this recitation of how tight the site is, and then I can see where he would be doing that.

I mean, it would be nice if you would consider using some more progressive measures besides just putting water off into the channel, such as

permeable pavement.

Justin has heard this all from me before, but it would be nice if this site was actually designed a little more progressively.

I'm tired of underground storage tanks and water quality credits being bought off site.

The other question I had was actually, so you can answer that if you want, but the other part was this future phase development, the building showed up in the front,

I thought we were only approving or considering, I shouldn't say approving, considering the proposed building addition shown on my screen to the left.

And so are we being asked tonight to approve all these phases or are you just showing us the future phase by the road for informational purposes?

So I guess I had two questions.

A concern and a question.

One, stormwater related, asking if you're doing anything progressive.

If you're not, I'm sad.

Thanks.

Okay, thank you.

Long wants to respond to my other question.

I'll add or comment with regard to the second question and then ask Justin to weigh in on the first if I may.

Mr. Reidelbach was correct.

We are asking Ms.

Firehock for you to approve

both the first and second phases of the development for the SP use of the veterinary and the boarding.