Central Virginia
Albemarle County
Planning Commission Regular Meeting 5/26/2026
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Planning Commission Regular Meeting
5/26/2026
Attachments
Agenda.pdf
Minutes.pdf
Action Memo.pdf
TA-2025-00004 Add Category CWCoA Rooftop Solar in Entrance Corridor- Staff Report.pdf
Attach. 1 TA-2025-00004 Add Category CWCoA - Resolution of Intent.pdf
Attach. 2 TA-2025-00004 Add Category of CWCoA - Proposed Ordinance.pdf
ZMA-2025-0007 and SUB-2025-00239 Windy Knoll Staff Report.pdf
Att. 1 - ZMA202500007 and SUB202500239 Windy Knoll - Existing Conditions Ma.pdf
Att. 2 - ZMA-2025-00007 Windy Knoll - 2-10-26 Planning Commission Minutes.pdf
Att. 3 - ZMA-2025-00007 WAindy Knoll - Updated Narrative.pdf
Att. 4 - ZMA-2025-00007 Windy Knoll - Updated Conceptual Plan.pdf
Att. 5 - ZMA-2025-00007 Windy Knoll - Updated Proffer Statement.pdf
Att. 6 - Sec.14-411 Subdivision Street Standards.pdf
Att. 7 - SUB-2025-00239 Narrative Windy Knoll Sidewalk Waiver Request.pdf
Att. 8 - SUB-2025-00239 Windy Knoll - Planting Strip Waiver Request.pdf
Att. 9 - SUB-2025-00239 Windy Knoll - Draft Resolution of Approval Sidewalk Waiver.pdf
Att. 10 - SUB-2025-00239 Windy Knoll - Draft Resolution of Denial Sidewalk Waiver.pdf
Draft PC Minutes 05_12_2026.pdf
1. Call to order and establish quorum.
▶︎
2:10
2. Public Comment on matters pending before the Commission, but not listed for a Public Hearing on this agenda.
▶︎
4:23
3. Consent Agenda (on the next sheet).
▶︎
4:36
4. Public Hearing.
▶︎
5:23
a. TA-2025-00004 Add a New Category of Countywide Certificate of Appropriateness for Rooftop Solar Installations in the Entrance Corridors
▶︎
5:23
TA-2025-00004 Add a New Category of Countywide Certificate of Appropriateness for.pdf
b. ZMA-2025-00007 and SUB-2025-00238 Windy Knoll
▶︎
17:32
ZMA-2025-00007 and SUB-2025-00238 Windy Knoll.pdf
5. Committee Reports.
▶︎
2:22:24
6. Review of Board of Supervisors Meeting: May 20, 2026
▶︎
2:25:06
7. New Business.
▶︎
2:26:31
8. Old Business.
▶︎
2:26:34
9. Items for follow-up.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:02:10
Just a little bit over 6 p.m. we're gonna call to order the Albemarle County Planning Commission for May 26.
00:02:24
As always the public can access and participate in the meetings through information posted in the Albemarle County website specifically on the Planning Commission's homepage and the Albemarle County
00:02:36
During the meeting, there will be opportunities for the public comment on specific agenda items where input is invited.
00:02:44
Madam Clerk, can you call the commission to order, please?
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:02:48
Yes.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:02:49
Or the quorum.
00:02:51
Let's establish the quorum.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:02:55
Marie, I'm going to start with you so that we can
00:03:01
I'm going to start Mr. Murray first and then I'll go around and then he can say why he's not there.
00:03:07
Mr. Murray is participating remotely today.
00:03:18
Can you hear me, Mr. Murray?
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:03:20
Yes, I can.
00:03:20
Yes, I would like to participate remotely due to transportation issues.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:03:28
Okay, Ms. Moore?
00:03:31
No.
00:03:31
Mr. Moore?
Nathan Moore
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:03:33
I'm here.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:03:34
Mr. Clayborne?
Nathan Moore
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:03:35
Present.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:03:36
Mr. Carrazana?
Nathan Moore
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:03:37
Here.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:03:37
Ms. Firehock?
00:03:38
Here.
00:03:39
And Ms. Brown?
00:03:40
Present.
00:03:40
Thank you.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:03:42
And then I am going to need a motion so that Commissioner Murray can participate.
Nathan Moore
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:03:49
So moved to allow Lonnie's remote participation.
00:03:54
Second.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:03:56
All right, let me take that
00:03:59
Vote.
00:04:02
Mr. Moore.
00:04:03
Aye.
00:04:04
Mr. Clayburn.
Nathan Moore
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:04:05
Aye.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:04:05
Mr. Carrazana.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:04:07
Aye.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:04:07
Ms. Firehock.
00:04:08
Aye.
00:04:09
And Ms. Brown.
00:04:10
Aye.
00:04:10
Thank you.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:04:13
Okay, we have a quorum.
00:04:15
At this point, the public
00:04:23
can come up to make comments on matters that are pending before the commission, but not listed for public hearing in this agenda.
00:04:33
Are there any comments?
00:04:36
Seeing none, we will move to the consent agenda.
00:04:41
Well, let me ask, are there any online?
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:04:43
No, sir, there is no.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:04:44
Thank you.
00:04:45
Move to the consent agenda.
00:04:48
Is there an item for the consent agenda that any commissioner would like to pull?
Corey Clayborne
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:04:54
For further review?
00:04:56
I move to approve the consent agenda as presented.
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
00:05:01
Second.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:05:06
Mr. Murray.
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:05:07
Aye.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:05:09
Ms. Brown.
00:05:10
Aye.
00:05:11
Ms. Firehock.
00:05:12
Aye.
00:05:12
Mr. Carrazana.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:05:14
Aye.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:05:14
Mr. Clayburn.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:05:15
Aye.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:05:15
And Mr. Moore.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:05:17
Aye.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:05:18
Thank you.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:05:23
Okay, we are moving for the public hearing for TA 2025-4.
00:05:28
Add a new category of countrywide certification of appropriateness for rooftop solar installations in the entrance corridor.
00:05:39
You have the staff report, please.
Margaret Maliszewski
Planning Manager
00:05:41
Yes.
00:05:42
Thank you.
00:05:42
Good evening, everyone.
00:05:43
I'm Margaret Malyszewski.
00:05:44
I'm one of the managers in the Planning Division of Community Development.
00:05:48
And a lot of my time is spent with the Architectural Review Board in the entrance quarters.
00:05:53
And tonight I am presenting to you an entrance quarter related ZTA.
00:05:58
We don't bring many entrance quarter items to you.
00:06:00
So I'm going to start with a little background on the entrance quarters to give a little context on what you're looking at tonight.
00:06:07
Entrance quarters were first established in Albemarle in 1990.
00:06:11
Entrance quarters are streets that run to or through the historic areas of the county.
00:06:16
The entrance corridor district is an overlay district.
00:06:19
That means that entrance corridor regulations are in addition to the underlying zoning.
00:06:24
Entrance corridors were established to help ensure that the character of new development is consistent with the historic character of the county.
00:06:32
And that's done by establishing an architectural review board that applies design guidelines to the review of new development in the corridors.
00:06:40
The technical term for ARB approval is a certificate of appropriateness.
00:06:45
When the entrance quarters were first established and for many years thereafter, every ARB application that was received was presented to the ARB for review in an ARB meeting.
00:06:57
That was a lot of applications, many of which were very simple and straightforward.
00:07:02
And over the years, the outcomes became very predictable.
00:07:05
So in 2009, we took steps to streamline that process.
00:07:09
And in 2010, zoning text amendment was approved that established a new class of certificate of appropriateness.
00:07:16
And that is the county-wide certificate of appropriateness.
00:07:20
The process was streamlined at that time by making 11 types of development available for staff level review, and those are number one through 11 in this slide.
00:07:29
These are types of development that are relatively small in scope and or they're expected to have less visual impact than others.
00:07:37
So for each category of countywide certificate, the ordinance requires that the ARB establish design criteria that will be used for the review of subsequent applications.
00:07:48
So the ARB establishes the design criteria for each category and then staff review the applications as they come in.
00:07:57
In 2021, a 12th category was added to the list and that was done as part of the Rio 29 form-based code.
00:08:05
In 2023, a 13th category was added and that was for developments subject to public-private partnership agreements.
00:08:15
So tonight you're considering a text amendment to add a 14th category to the list.
00:08:20
Adoption of this amendment would allow for that streamlined review of any proposal for rooftop solar installations in the entrance corridors.
00:08:29
ARB recommended the addition of this category following their review and approval of three applications for solar installations in September of last year.
00:08:39
And those included proposals for rooftop panels at Albemarle High School, the high school center too, and for the Virginia asphalt business on Avon Street extended.
00:08:49
The ARB is currently working to establish the design criteria that the ordinance requires for that streamlined review.
00:08:56
You'll see in your staff report that this proposal has been reviewed for all the typical factors that are considered for text amendments.
00:09:02
While this proposal does not impact many of those factors, I will highlight two of the positive factors.
00:09:08
One is that the amendment would simplify the review process, and two, it's consistent with the goals of the county's climate action plan.
00:09:15
So what is before you tonight is a request to make a recommendation on the addition of one line of text to the entrance corridor overlay section of the ordinance to add rooftop solar installations as a new category of countywide certificate of appropriateness.
00:09:31
Motions for you when you're ready and I'd be happy to try to answer any questions you have.
Nathan Moore
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:09:38
I was just curious, sort of in the staff review, thank you for the concise presentation.
00:09:43
It's great.
00:09:43
I think it sounds great for the most part or just in general.
00:09:47
I was curious when it comes to a staff review for this kind of thing in the future, what hypothetically would lead to a denial of rooftop solar proposal?
Margaret Maliszewski
Planning Manager
00:10:01
The criteria haven't been settled on yet, so it's kind of hard to say.
00:10:06
The criteria right now that the ARB are considering are things like how the panels are arranged on the roof, the configuration of the panels, how they relate to the slope of the roof, how far off the roof they are, that sort of thing, making sure that the
00:10:27
other related equipment isn't visible.
00:10:31
So those are the things the ARB would be looking for and that staff would be looking for after the criteria established.
Nathan Moore
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:10:38
Makes sense.
00:10:39
And I guess to that point, too, somewhat I noticed number six on the countywide certificates of appropriateness is the new or replacement rooftop mounted equipment.
00:10:48
I was just wondering what the logic was behind separating solar panels from, frankly, other rooftop mounted equipment.
Margaret Maliszewski
Planning Manager
00:10:55
That's a good question.
00:10:57
The criteria for the rooftop equipment is really it's not supposed to be visible at all.
00:11:07
And we recognize that there are a lot of potential solar installations that are just going to be visible.
00:11:15
And so the criteria, they're a little bit different just how to make it a little more consistent with the roof of the building.
Nathan Moore
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:11:23
Gotcha.
00:11:23
Thank you.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:11:29
Just to follow up on that point, so how much of what we were just talking about in terms of the orientation and the bracket, the mounting and how much is that more of a ARB question versus planning commission or I mean, how much do they get into that?
00:11:50
Because obviously anything on the entry corridor, it's going to go to the architecture review board.
Margaret Maliszewski
Planning Manager
00:11:56
Establishing the design criteria for each of these categories of county-wide certificate is a task for the ARB.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:12:05
Okay, yeah, so everything is really just going to go to them?
Margaret Maliszewski
Planning Manager
00:12:08
They set the design criteria once those are adopted by the ARB, then when the individual applications come in, staff review those applications against the criteria that the ARB already established.
Michael Barnes
Director of Planning
00:12:21
and so perhaps, to be clear, tonight is really amending the zoning ordinance and thus it goes through you and then to the board.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:12:31
Yeah, but they will get into the ARB, so it's the agency that will review the details of a lot of the items that you just mentioned in terms of...
Margaret Maliszewski
Planning Manager
00:12:41
Exactly.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:12:42
Yeah.
00:12:44
In terms of the design criteria that they set, I'm just wondering,
00:12:50
Is the ARB considering design for freedom criterias?
Rebecca Ragsdale
Planning Manager
00:12:59
Excuse me?
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:13:01
Are they considering design for freedom criteria?
Michael Barnes
Director of Planning
00:13:08
I'm not familiar with that term, design of freedom.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:13:11
We'll need to get staff familiar with that term.
00:13:15
So it's an organization that looks at humane practices of manufacturing.
00:13:21
and with solar panels in particular, there's a concern how most of the panels or the parts of the panels are manufactured using slave labor, predominantly.
00:13:36
So there's a lot of concern around solar panels and the only way that we're going to encourage
00:13:43
manufacturers to stop using that kind of labor and start seeing panels manufactured in other places is to start paying attention to these practices.
00:13:55
It's not just with solar panels, but that is one that it's a particular industry that we're seeing quite a bit of a challenge identifying where the labor is coming and that it is free labor.
00:14:09
Anyway, I'll send you information on that, Mr. Barton.
Margaret Maliszewski
Planning Manager
00:14:12
That would be great.
00:14:13
I think that sounds very important.
00:14:16
I'm not sure that we have the ability to address that through the entrance corridor.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:14:23
I'll forward you some information on Design for Freedom and you guys should get familiar with that.
00:14:30
that organization.
00:14:31
They're doing some great work.
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
00:14:33
Maybe you're suggesting it could be a later policy the county could adopt regarding county buildings.
00:14:40
You know, like the school board could adopt it for school buildings because that was already mentioned as one of the applicants in the past.
00:14:49
We probably couldn't put in the zoning, but it could be a county standard of purchasing or something.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:14:55
Yeah, that's what I mentioned.
00:14:55
Well, the county, but even as the ARB reviews, if they have their design criteria, they can build that into their design criteria.
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
00:15:07
I'm not sure they can build in the sourcing of materials.
00:15:11
Anyway, it's good to know.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:15:14
I mean, we're doing it at the university.
00:15:15
We're certainly, it's something that we're paying more attention to.
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
00:15:18
Absolutely, because you're the buyer and you're the buyer.
00:15:22
That's it.
00:15:26
I have no questions.
00:15:32
I don't have any comments.
00:15:33
I think it's a good idea.
00:15:35
Thank you.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:15:37
No comments here.
00:15:40
So we'll open it for public hearing.
00:15:51
Is there anyone in the public that would like to speak to this matter?
00:15:59
I don't even have to go through my speech.
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
00:16:03
Commissioner Murray?
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:16:08
No, no comments.
00:16:09
I'm supportive.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:16:11
I have to push another button.
00:16:13
Okay.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:16:14
Commissioner Murray, did you have any comments or questions on this matter?
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:16:19
No, no, no comments.
00:16:21
I'm supportive of this.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:16:25
All right.
00:16:25
Okay.
00:16:25
Well, seeing no members of the public that wants to speak, I will bring it back to the commission.
00:16:35
Are there any other
00:16:38
Questions or point of deliberation?
00:16:43
None.
00:16:45
And I am ready for a motion.
Catherine Brown
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:16:48
I'll move to recommend approval of TA 2025-004.
00:16:55
Add a new category of county-wide certificate of appropriateness for rooftop solar installations in the entrance corridors.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:17:04
Second.
00:17:06
All right.
00:17:08
Any further conversations?
00:17:12
None.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:17:15
Mr. Moore.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:17:16
Aye.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:17:17
Mr. Clayborne.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:17:18
Aye.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:17:19
Mr. Carrazana.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:17:20
Aye.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:17:21
Ms. Firehock.
00:17:22
Aye.
00:17:22
Ms. Brown.
00:17:23
Aye.
00:17:24
Mr. Murray.
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:17:24
Aye.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:17:26
Thank you.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:17:32
All right, we are moving on to CMA 2025-7 and sub 2025-238, Wendy Knowles.
Rebecca Ragsdale
Planning Manager
00:18:26
Good evening, I'm Rebecca Ragsdale and I'll be giving staff's presentation for this item.
00:18:32
One of the planning managers in the planning division.
00:18:35
I'll give a brief summary of the proposal and then some of the parcel characteristics and then go into a little bit more detail about the current application plan and proffers before you this evening.
00:18:50
So these items before you include both a rezoning request and also the subdivision number referenced is a waiver request of sidewalk and planting strip requirements which
00:19:12
which we will be going into a little bit more detail about.
00:19:17
Wendy Knoll is located in Crozet off of Route 250 and it is, I've got my laser pointer, it is three acres
00:19:29
that is around 330 Windy Knoll and it's located off of Corey Farm Road behind some of the already developed portions of Corey Farm to the south and west and then to the east is Liberty Hall and the Clover Lawn development.
00:19:48
This is an aerial view showing the parcel characteristics.
00:19:53
There were three homes located on the parcels at one point.
00:19:56
Now there are just one remaining.
00:19:59
There are surrounding developments, including, as I mentioned, Liberty Hall with some single family and townhouse development.
00:20:08
and then the single family within Corey Farm.
00:20:11
This is within very close proximity and walkability to the center area of Clover Lawn and then the Blue Ridge Shopping Center is right across the street.
00:20:23
This is the current zoning map of the area.
00:20:26
The parcels outlined in blue again show that this is zoned R1 residential and Corey Farm is zoned R4 and to the east are more recent rezonings with Liberty Hall zoned neighborhood model district developed at about six dwelling units per acre gross and then Clover Lawn with additional commercial and townhouse developments and again
00:20:52
the commercial area across 250.
00:20:57
This is the AC44 land use plan.
00:21:01
Future land use map representative of those categories and recommendations of the Crozet master plan.
00:21:08
This area.
00:21:10
The parcels have been designated as neighborhood density.
00:21:13
Excuse me, neighborhood residential density in the master plan since the very first Crozet master plan and we're on our
00:21:22
III now I believe.
00:21:24
So that designation is three to six dwelling units per acre.
00:21:29
And as I mentioned, that is what the overall density of Liberty Hall was to the east.
00:21:38
This is the application plan.
00:21:40
This has been revised.
00:21:43
We noted that
00:21:45
There was a public hearing held on this in February of this year, February 10th, 2026.
00:21:51
And the applicant has made some adjustments based on Planning Commission feedback.
00:21:56
And that is what is before you this evening.
00:22:01
What we refer to are the major elements of the application plan.
00:22:09
are shown in tan with building envelopes, which they've referred to as the north building zone and the south building zone.
00:22:18
And then the green areas are open space and amenity.
00:22:22
So what is new to this plan is that they have increased the potential for up to 11 units in the south building zone.
00:22:33
They have refined and added
00:22:38
pedestrian paths, including a commitment to a public access easement that could potentially connect over to Colony Drive and Corey Farm.
00:22:50
This really fills in some of those concerns and gaps in providing access to nearby walkable areas.
00:23:04
We mentioned the staff report, the other application that is before you.
00:23:10
When you do take action this evening, there are a couple of different resolutions and motions when you're ready, but we aren't quite there yet, obviously.
00:23:22
This is included in the concept plan materials and the applicant's materials that shows that what they're asking for in terms of a waiver
00:23:29
is to the private street they've requested in the north building zone.
00:23:36
That would be to only provide a sidewalk and planting strip on one side of the street.
00:23:44
Flipping back to the application plan, we have mentioned before that this is not your typical setup.
00:23:50
to have three different access points.
00:23:53
The north building zone would be served by that private street where they have submitted the waiver request and then the south could potentially be served by lower street standards based on the number of units from those existing access points of Colony Drive from Liberty Hall and then Windy Knoll that is off of Little Fox Lane in Quarry Farm.
00:24:19
The proffers that you have in your packet make a commitment to that concept plan and use the term major elements in terms of what is binding if it was to move on to the site plan or subdivision phase of development.
00:24:34
The maximum density is 18 units overall, but
00:24:37
this application plan allows up to 11 in each of those building zones.
00:24:43
We mentioned the amenity locations and the pathways are part of the proffers and then they have updated their proffers since the public hearing in February to make sure that there are commitments in line with housing Albemarle.
00:25:00
Based on the number of units, the maximum number of units of 18, they could potentially provide up to four
00:25:06
Affordable units, the proffers as we typically see allow some flexibility and whether those are for rent or for sale, but the area median income limits and the periods of affordability are in line with the housing Albemarle policy recommendations for either for rent or for sale units.
00:25:27
Also included in the packet is what we refer to as an illustrative plan, which is really an example, representative example of how the site might develop under the regulating concept plan.
00:25:43
I just wanted to provide that context and I have those slides available if we need to reference them, including the prior concept plan that had fewer units on the south building zone.
00:25:57
And in summary, staff has recommended approval based on the factors that we indicated in the staff report with consistency with the Crozet Master Plan recommendations and the growth management policy.
00:26:18
for adding density in units in the development area and the proposal is now consistent with housing Albemarle.
00:26:27
And also, as I noted earlier, they have made those revisions that added assurances with regard to pedestrian and bike potential interconnectivity.
00:26:41
I'll pause for any questions of staff now.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:26:47
Commissioners, do we have any questions for staff?
Catherine Brown
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:26:55
Is the proper commitment to the percentage, so if they don't build out to 18, it remains 20% of whatever the build out becomes?
00:27:03
Yes.
00:27:04
Okay.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:27:11
Lonnie?
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:27:13
Yes, if you could go back to the map that shows where the easements.
00:27:24
Can you hear me?
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
00:27:26
Well, we can't show the map and have you up.
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:27:30
Oh, okay.
00:27:31
Yeah, that's true.
00:27:35
When you look at the southern middle part, there's an easement that goes into the middle of the property to the homeowner that's surrounded by the other parcels.
00:27:46
Can you clarify the nature of that easement?
00:27:48
Maybe this is a question for the applicant, but is that a public easement or is that a private easement?
Rebecca Ragsdale
Planning Manager
00:27:58
There is, are you referring to the access easement for Windy Knoll Lane off of Little Fox Lane?
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:28:06
Yes.
Rebecca Ragsdale
Planning Manager
00:28:08
That is a private access easement.
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:28:12
Okay.
00:28:14
Thank you.
SPEAKER_23
00:28:26
Questions?
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:28:31
All right.
00:28:32
Would the applicant like to make a presentation?
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:28:42
Good evening, everyone.
00:28:46
Justin Schimp with Schimp Engineering.
00:28:47
I am joined by Paulina Drabeff, my office planner, who assists a lot of these projects.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:28:54
Justin Schimp, just for you.
00:28:55
You all have 10 minutes, and I think you know the drill with the lights.
00:28:59
Yes, sir.
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:29:04
I'll start on an item of procedure.
00:29:06
We have these requests we had for the sidewalk waivers.
00:29:10
Staff pointed out that that might be too early to consider those.
00:29:14
We'd be fine with a deferral of those for tonight because I actually think the analysis was based on the prior layout before we revised it.
00:29:22
So there may be some things that just don't match in that.
00:29:24
So those are items that we can, the big topic is the zoning.
00:29:28
We can come back before you for those waivers later if we decide they're needed based on the actual build outs.
00:29:34
I just don't want us to spend a lot of time on that.
00:29:37
If it's something that we may not even be 100% sure,
00:29:39
That's good to go.
00:29:40
Just wanted to start with that comment for everyone's sake.
00:29:43
So this project we were here back in February.
00:29:46
I think probably everyone remembers and have seen the location here.
00:29:49
It is one of these infill projects in Crozet that you'll probably see more and more of.
SPEAKER_23
00:29:56
This one feels like it's difficult, but I expect I'll find some that are more difficult yet.
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:30:02
This has got neighborhoods all around it, but as far as land to build on goes, it's actually a very suitable level.
00:30:09
It's been developed previously, essentially, as prior single-family homes.
00:30:14
Our quest remains the same.
00:30:15
We request for the 18 units on 3.146 acres.
00:30:21
We will have the 20% affordable housing in this mix.
00:30:24
Of course, as you've heard, it's very much an infill.
00:30:27
It's very close to things you can walk to, which is excellent.
00:30:32
This makes, in my mind, Corey Farm, as it's built out, as time has changed, it's sort of missing a mixture of housing types.
00:30:40
And this introduces that into that neighborhood immediately.
00:30:43
The updates we've made are, one, there was discussion last time about how much the density was sort of skewed.
00:30:48
One north side being a 14, south side being maybe less of a 5 or something like that.
00:30:54
So we revised that to make a maximum of 11 on either side to balance that out.
00:31:00
I think the other main concern, I think there was a lot of good points brought up the planning commission last time about the connectivity and I'll walk through how we got to that point with this, but making it a public path I think is the right move here and will really bring a lot of value to those in the neighborhood from this development.
00:31:17
We've also designated an amenity area that was missing from the prior applications to spell out with some specificity where that would go.
00:31:24
Last item is we did increase our building setbacks off of 330 property line to double what the side the setback would normally be just to give a little room for landscaping and things on that perimeter.
00:31:36
I'm going to start with something that was brought up last time.
00:31:38
It's not really germane to this, but I know folks were concerned we didn't address it with stormwater and there was still some questions about this and just very briefly.
00:31:46
It was noted in the county staff report that really this site, it actually in fact trains this way to Corey Farm.
00:31:51
There apparently is a issue down in this Liberty Hall with stormwater runoff.
00:31:57
And a portion of our site, this little area here, does train there now.
00:32:01
But the regulations are written, we will have to divert that water over.
00:32:05
to hear.
00:32:05
So just for folks, if they're in the audience concerned about that, there's essentially a diversion of water from our property away from them.
00:32:12
So there would not be any impact on the development of the site on whatever issues may be arising there.
00:32:19
Surrounding neighborhoods consist of a mixture of single family, some multi-family over behind Clover Lawn, townhomes.
00:32:27
We're kind of perched right in the middle of that site.
00:32:30
You'll notice Sparrow Hill on the far left page there.
00:32:33
That was actually developed as a buy right R1 project years ago.
00:32:37
There's a lot of units not built there that were in the comprehensive plan to be constructed.
00:32:43
This is a pretty important map.
00:32:44
This shows, this is I guess probably the prior comprehensive plan land use map as you saw did not change in the AC44.
00:32:53
But around here we have single family homes, single family homes, single family homes.
00:32:56
We have a mixture of types here.
00:32:59
So the 119 is not including our additional units.
00:33:03
So right now it's at 2.26 units per acre.
00:33:06
If you add our, it's really 16 more of those two houses on our count here.
00:33:10
where it seems like 2.6 units an acre.
00:33:12
So this area will be under the comprehensive plan recommended density with the full build out of our project.
00:33:21
Something to keep in mind, you think about this as a context of a whole area, then I think if you were developing this project and nothing was here, you would say of course there should be higher density in this location based on getting a reasonable mix of units.
00:33:36
So the concept plan started off as this in the last meeting, February meeting, and some of the highlights of discussion were, you know, what about this path coming through?
00:33:44
Is it all season?
00:33:46
Is it appropriate to get someone on a stroller through questions like that?
00:33:49
We're asking good questions.
00:33:51
And so we kind of rethought that, and we worked a bit with the county staff on other potential options, and we certainly wanted to address the public
00:33:59
connection through the site in some meaningful fashion.
00:34:02
And our first look access, this was never submitted formally, what we considered was could we make a vehicular connection a future, not without the redevelopment of a 330 parcel, but in theory, the roads could have been aligned to allow connection.
00:34:17
The grades would permit a connection from here to here with road construction.
00:34:21
And that would be both a, that could have a pedestrian and vehicular access through.
00:34:27
We talked about that with the county staff and we looked at some of the other developments around and this bluff is still in limbo but it was submitted back again about the time we were looking through and you'll see they propose and I think ultimately will get built a connection, a vehicular connection through their neighborhood.
00:34:46
This is Radford Lane here which takes you back to Clover Lawn.
00:34:51
This little cul-de-sac is where our road would have come out so if you go to the previous
00:34:56
layout, we would sort of have a road connecting through here.
00:34:59
And then they would potentially have a road here, maybe 200, 300 feet apart.
00:35:07
So that didn't make sense to us and not knowing the timing of if 330 gets redeveloped.
00:35:12
We looked at a different approach, which is here.
00:35:17
The new concept plan.
00:35:19
A new concept plan tackles this public connectivity with a shared use path right to the middle here.
00:35:26
and that's a public path and it's paved path.
00:35:28
That's one that you can go on a bicycle, you could walk.
00:35:30
I think that really fixes a lot of the issues we have with connectivity.
00:35:33
It's not an easy site to just build a road through from one side to the other.
00:35:37
But the reality is the vehicular connectivity around here is already pretty good.
00:35:40
You can get around.
00:35:42
There's a missing sort of pedestrian connection from this neighborhood over to here.
00:35:45
Doesn't involve going on 250.
00:35:48
So that was our focus to try to make a better design and integrate at the site.
00:35:52
You'll see we have some green space around this path and then we have a buildable zone here, buildable zone here.
00:35:58
The amenity area has been locked in here.
00:36:01
There's a reduced number of units over in this area and amenity space added here.
00:36:05
So addressing the questions that arose last time.
00:36:09
I think this page got out of order.
00:36:11
This connectivity map shows you a little bit of a broader picture of that.
00:36:15
Essentially, the shared use path connects the existing neighborhood here straight through and over to these businesses without having to go down and walk on the side of Route 250.
00:36:28
That really made a lot of sense to us.
00:36:30
and then the future of vehicular connection would come through this neighborhood.
00:36:35
So in balance, we felt like talking to staff and just looking at ourselves, that was more beneficial to everybody involved.
00:36:41
And that's where we ended up with this particular concept.
00:36:43
So I'll leave this here.
00:36:44
I don't think I had any other notes to add other than what you heard about.
00:36:48
We did address the housing proffer questions and things of that nature, technical items to make sure that it's all complete for you tonight.
00:36:56
I know that this is the last meeting, certainly not everyone's going to be happy with this layout and when you have an infill project we're inherently going to be developing around folks who are there and we understand that and respect that's an inconvenience to them, but at the same time if you take a broader picture
00:37:11
We have to increase this density to get a more diverse housing type and affordable units.
00:37:16
This is built out as 18 units.
00:37:19
Four affordable units on the current for sale is something like $260,000 apiece.
00:37:25
So that's a very deeply affordable product in the middle of Crozet.
00:37:29
They really wouldn't exist without a project like this.
00:37:32
So for all those reasons, we think we've addressed the principal concerns of the connectivity and we believe this is a
00:37:38
Excellent infill project we'd like to see it move forward.
00:37:41
So happy to answer any questions the commission may have.
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
00:37:43
All right, I have three questions.
00:37:55
You mentioned that you doubled the setback for the border with property number 330.
00:38:04
How much, so from what to what?
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:38:06
So five to ten.
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
00:38:08
Okay, so it's ten feet setback all the way around through the inside of that U.
00:38:14
Or I guess you don't need a setback from the stormwater pond.
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:38:16
Right, on the north side.
00:38:17
There's already a larger setback from the shared use path on the south side.
00:38:20
So yes, the tightest pinch point is on the north side and that's ten feet.
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
00:38:24
Okay, and then last time you were here we asked you about moving some more of the density to the southern part of this development.
00:38:37
You've got your conceptual design, which I understand is not proffered, but it's
00:38:41
You got all your townhouses to the north and you've got sort of lower density to the south.
00:38:46
Was there a reason why you want the townhouses in the upper part?
00:38:50
Did it work out better in terms of some kind of layout or?
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:38:54
Well, I think as far as there's a couple of things, I suppose.
00:38:57
One is when we introduce the shared use path coming through, I'm hopeful that we can get when we get to this point, maybe
00:39:04
reduced street section that has more of like a shoulder that has some sheet flow that has some stormwater components to it that aren't just like all curb and gutter.
00:39:14
So sort of a space constraint up there about getting that in.
00:39:17
We have a pinch point at the road right here where we only have like 35 feet of frontage on the public road.
00:39:25
So I have to fit the shared use path and the road in that zone.
00:39:31
So we're a little tighter on space here.
00:39:34
I think otherwise this layout, this configuration works well, townhomes on that side.
00:39:43
When we get to it, we may end up, we can flip it around.
00:39:47
You know, we're not profit specific layout, but we still imagine with the construction of this path coming through that it was easier to put the townhomes with a higher density product on the north side.
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
00:39:59
And then my other question is just about the trees.
00:40:01
We received a lot of comments about the
00:40:04
the eight-foot public paved path and then some existing large maples and some other species.
00:40:10
I think there was a species or two that people didn't want, like a pear tree that was an invasive one.
00:40:17
I'm just curious, you haven't laid this out yet, but are you able to, I know that in terms of design, there are ways to curve trails around trees or to even
00:40:30
create a ramp to get over the roots so you can have a trail right next to a tree without having to cut down the tree.
00:40:36
So I'm just curious about I'm sure you've received copies of those comments.
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:40:41
I did see those and I don't want to bring them up certainly some of the trees in question I think are outside of where we want to build.
00:40:47
I know one of the nice things about this area up here
00:40:51
is it's very flat.
00:40:52
And so we can build a path there with very minimal grading.
00:40:55
And sort of why I like the idea of the path in this sort of smaller private street is we don't have to go and dig up the ground for storm sewer pipe and things like that, right?
00:41:05
So I think that's beneficial preserving them.
00:41:07
Certainly, there's a big benefit in your site planning calculations to preserving trees.
00:41:12
And I think there's a quality, some of those trees on there are very nice, some of them not so, as you point out.
00:41:17
But yeah, I think certainly this design gives us more flexibility to do, preserve those trees than if we built a public street through here, you know, we'd have to basically grade it out and put the curb gutter and full sidewalk in and that would be less opportunity for a better design if we were at that direction.
00:41:35
But to answer your question, we haven't surveyed the trees in yet.
00:41:38
Certainly, if there's a nice tree and we can keep it, we'd like to do that because frankly, the houses are more valuable that way if you have nice landscape around.
00:41:46
There's no need to cut down a tree.
00:41:48
You don't have to.
00:41:49
You lose the credit for your landscaping ordinance.
00:41:52
You lose the beauty that will attract people to buy a house there.
00:41:55
But I have not graded this out.
00:41:57
I just know it's nice and flat there.
00:41:58
I can build a path without a bunch of moonscaping application.
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
00:42:02
Okay, that's my questions for now.
00:42:06
Thank you.
Catherine Brown
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:42:10
It's funny, my questions are similar.
00:42:13
Like the Southwest
00:42:17
area.
00:42:18
I was just wondering why there wasn't more density there, but I guess I do understand given the lack of access, but do you think that there's an opportunity to negotiate use of that private easement in order to increase density in
00:42:40
That lower corner and maybe do a trade off.
00:42:42
It sounds like from some of the comments that you know this massing
00:42:51
and the north portion is quite disturbing to neighbors and you have a lot of other land to work with down there.
00:43:02
I was just wondering if there might be some other creative negotiation to build density there, do some trade-offs to spread it out a little bit.
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:43:13
There's a little bit, well, for one, of course, obviously, any agreement adjusting around this little Windy Knoll Lane would require the neighbors to agree, which they would be under no obligation to.
00:43:21
But I think there's probably an issue, once you go down further here, I think it's only a 10-slit road, and there's lots on both sides.
00:43:29
So basically, that road is already supporting the most
00:43:33
houses that it can under a county ordinance.
00:43:35
So even if we had permission to, we would not be able to do so without widening it in pre-empt for the down.
00:43:41
So that's why we were trying to keep basically a house, a house as it's historically been on that road, and then some construction over here.
00:43:50
It does, as you point out, it ends up sort of reducing the density, like the sort of one house sitting over here.
00:43:55
But there's not a great way to access that without crossing that road, introducing the possibility of people going down that driveway that shouldn't be, basically.
00:44:04
We had a layout originally that actually had more units here.
00:44:07
But the issue was if the driveway crossed, people could, in theory, drive on the road.
00:44:11
And the road is not adequate for that.
Catherine Brown
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:44:12
So my second question is, going back to the trees, the tree stewards sent some really helpful, detailed information about the mature trees that are on site.
00:44:25
And I do think over time, these old trees are an important part of the fabric of a community.
00:44:34
We have cedars here, I think are the ones that they pointed out along the path, which over time is fence posts and
00:44:44
those are kind of a historic part of the fabric of the community.
00:44:49
And then the white oaks on the south portion, a few of which they said measured 40 to 48 inches in diameter.
00:44:59
There's a lot of value in
00:45:04
preserving those trees.
00:45:06
There's obviously ecological value, economic value, and in my mind they're also a pretty important part of just the fabric of the land.
00:45:22
I know it's not possible to commit to that at this point since this is rezoning, but I just want to voice I think that's a really important consideration in how this development goes forward.
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:45:44
Do you mean maples or oaks?
00:45:47
I recall the maples.
Catherine Brown
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:45:48
The maples and the cedars I think are probably the most important species in the older ones on the site.
00:46:04
It's hard to tell on a map how difficult those are to work around, but it seems like if you're developing that area with less density,
00:46:17
There's some room to work around them.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:46:25
Commissioner Murray, do you have any questions for the applicant?
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:46:29
Yes, I do.
00:46:31
So there are some questions raised about the private easement.
00:46:38
that goes through the middle and the pedestrian path and whether it would be permissible to actually take that pedestrian path across that private easement in the middle.
00:46:50
Have you secured the rights to actually take that path across that easement in the middle?
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:46:59
Well, I'll answer this question as best I can.
00:47:01
So my client informs me we have the right to do this.
00:47:03
I'm not a lawyer.
00:47:04
I've not looked at it myself.
00:47:07
The land is owned by the property owner that I'm working for, where the easement is.
00:47:14
So we essentially have an easement crossing another easement.
00:47:18
So there's details of that being permissible.
00:47:22
The way our proffer is written,
00:47:24
If that path were struck down in some way, then we wouldn't be able to build anything.
00:47:30
So there is, you know, I think that sort of, if that for some reason becomes an issue, we would have to come back to you all and revisit that.
00:47:36
I don't believe it is.
00:47:36
I've heard nothing other than until I'm going to last day or two that it may be, but it is the, we are not going over anyone else's property.
00:47:44
It's on our own land.
00:47:44
It's basically a path crossing a path.
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:47:49
Great.
00:47:49
Thank you for that clarification.
00:47:51
The other thing in referring to the stormwater pipe that you described that would be capturing some of the stormwater from the northern end of the property and bringing it down to the stormwater pond.
00:48:03
There's sort of a, if you look at the map, there's a ravine there and another stormwater coming from both sides that would be coming from both your side and the pre-existing side of the other that already has some stormwater issues.
00:48:15
Would the stormwater pipe be just collecting stormwater from your side or would it be potentially helping solve some of those other issues as well?
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:48:23
It would probably be our side.
00:48:25
And the reason being, and I can pull it back up if I could, basically we have to, we can move water around different watersheds, but we need to generally honor the watersheds that are there.
00:48:35
So right now the water goes that direction.
00:48:36
We can take a portion of it and move it over, which we propose.
00:48:39
So I can't remember the numbers exactly, but say we're gonna take 80% of that water and relocate it over, but there'll still be some water that direction.
00:48:47
And what I think I could not do is take all the water from the neighboring property and move it over
00:48:52
to the Corey Farms side, because basically we'd create problems over there.
00:48:55
So we would mitigate, certainly our side, we would take that water off, but we would not be taking this water from the existing neighborhood.
00:49:04
If there's a problem, that'd be something they'd have to deal with.
00:49:06
The county has a department that helps handle stormwater issues like that.
00:49:11
It would be something that we really couldn't address very easily, or maybe even shouldn't.
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:49:16
Yeah, I was just saying because there was that ravine there and I didn't know how the pipe and how that was going to be laid out with how that capture would work, but I understand you'll work with staff on that.
Nathan Moore
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:49:32
Yeah, well, a few comments first, just because I saw this proposal, of course, like the rest of my commissioners back in February, and I do see some improvements on it.
00:49:42
I appreciate the build out of parcels that are within the development area, right?
00:49:48
Even these challenging parcels like this one.
00:49:50
with its funny shape and its terrain and all the rest.
00:49:53
And it is like one of the things that we hear from disparate groups to concentrate new homes in the development area, right?
00:50:00
Whether that's Piedmont Environmental Council or Livable Seaville or the Free Enterprise Forum, you know, they're all like, yeah, let's build homes in the development area.
00:50:07
So that's good to see that.
00:50:10
approach and attempt even on these challenging sites.
00:50:13
I also appreciate that this one comes in with the Albemarle housing policy with the affordable units and also just appreciate the improved connectivity with the paths and the preliminary layout you've got here.
00:50:25
looks like just less of an afterthought and that you put some good thought into this one.
00:50:31
This is kind of a general question just because there has been conversation about trees already.
00:50:38
During construction of housing projects like this, why is it that builders often cut down existing trees and then plant new ones after?
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:50:45
A few reasons.
00:50:49
A common one is it's pretty hard to save a large tree.
00:50:53
you have to really stay off it and then you run the risk of you come through it, you think you've done a good job and the tree dies two years later and it's going to fall on someone's house.
00:51:02
So there's a risk that folks try to avoid for that reason.
00:51:06
A lot of developments around here frankly require a lot heavier grading.
00:51:11
By the time you meet VDOT criteria, you put your sewers in at the right slope and everything, you end up having to work the land a lot.
00:51:16
One of the things I say I've always liked about this site
00:51:19
On the south side, both sides, where the south side especially is, I can just go build a road right on top of the dirt.
00:51:24
I don't have to dig up 10 feet.
00:51:26
I don't have to tear up all the trees and I don't have to tear up everything because then land just simply lays that way.
00:51:31
So it's very unusual, frankly, in Albemarle County.
00:51:33
So a lot of sites we work on are not the good development sites anymore.
00:51:36
So the sites left in the development area haven't been developed for a reason.
00:51:39
And you end up having to masquerade it to simply meet the regulations, fire code, VDOT.
00:51:45
All those things drive you to that and then you know unless you have a really a tree that you really want to work around you've got to stay so far off it and even then you may fail and so you know I like to save large trees we can't it's just you often don't find sites where you have a light footprint of dirt where you can do it this probably the south side is probably one of the few that could be done
Nathan Moore
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:52:07
And I was wondering, just in general, how does your team assess if and how a site plan can keep certain trees when you are looking at existing conditions and you're starting to map out site plans?
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:52:18
Well, you always start, you have all your constraints, any site, right?
00:52:21
We have a tie, we have to get on the site somehow, we have a road we have to tie into, right?
00:52:24
And usually that grade dictates how we get into.
00:52:27
And then we'll have, you know, the client will have a particular, you want to have X size unit or Y size unit, we fit that in the context of the zoning map.
00:52:34
And so you look at opportunities to, you know, if there's a spot with, let's say you have a 25% open space and you want to preserve that, you look for opportunities to find the best trees to put that around as part of development.
00:52:46
But it's often like the consideration, you know, frankly, is going to be, I've got these constraints I have to work with.
00:52:54
We're going to try to get a certain, there's a certain density typically allowed, you're trying to get close to that number.
00:53:00
And then you've got to be creative about where you can save those things and say, most of the projects we work on are just hard to build on.
00:53:07
And that's why it's not often done, frankly.
Nathan Moore
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:53:12
Great.
00:53:12
Thanks for the general, the good answers to my general questions.
Corey Clayborne
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:53:19
Thank you, Mr. Shimp.
00:53:20
Just had a couple of questions.
00:53:22
First, I do think this is certainly improved over February, and it sounds like taking that density from the upper left-hand quadrant and pulling down to the south, it seemed like that wasn't really feasible.
00:53:32
I just wanted to confirm it's not really feasible.
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:53:35
You could flip this around.
00:53:39
Density, let me say this, density is kind of a matter of the size of units often in the projects we have.
00:53:45
If someone tells me I've got three units an acre or six units an acre, we'll disturb the same amount of land.
00:53:51
It's just a matter of how big the houses are that go on it.
00:53:54
This concept sort of seems like it's lighter, and it is on the south side.
00:54:00
We could put a collection of townhomes over there.
00:54:04
We didn't have these structures up in the backyard of the other houses on the other street, so they're going to be somewhat closer to somebody.
00:54:11
But every time I've been to this site, I felt like trying to keep a lighter footprint on the south side would yield a better result overall.
00:54:19
So that's why we kept it that way.
00:54:21
When we get our actual unit dimensions in, we might shift things around.
00:54:26
A rule is simply we'll have no more than 11 on either side.
00:54:30
But that's generally the reason is I think I feel like I can have a better development by having the units on the upper side, the more dense units, the townhomes.
Corey Clayborne
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:54:38
That's a fair response.
00:54:40
you're butting up against that existing neighborhood that's sitting about 10 feet higher so trying to give them more space from a buffer standpoint have you looked at can that part development shift to the left ending just to provide even more space you know the north side here yes uh-huh
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:54:57
Yes, certainly.
00:54:58
You can always increase buffers and things of that nature.
00:55:01
We're trying to start a balance of what's reasonable.
00:55:04
I think the buyer right setback there now is five feet.
00:55:09
We don't want to go in there and say, oh, we have a 20-foot offset.
00:55:14
I think that would be atypical to have a big offset from residential zones side to side.
00:55:20
We try to increase it enough that there could be a meaningful landscape strip.
00:55:23
in between but if the extent those are pushed out it makes developing those units harder and that's going to be a town home.
00:55:29
Maybe it's a town home we lose somebody doesn't get to move into so there's trade-offs there that you're cognizant of.
00:55:34
We thought doubling the setback was a reasonable approach and gives enough room for some landscaping.
Corey Clayborne
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:55:40
I just think it'll make the design of those rear of the units pretty important, I think, right?
00:55:46
A lot of times, often, we're just focused on the front of the unit, but that's going to be someone's back porch, I'd imagine.
00:55:52
And those existing units, you're coming outside and you're going to look down.
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:55:55
On the south side, you mean over here?
Corey Clayborne
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:55:57
No, upper right-hand side, I'm sorry.
00:55:58
Over here.
00:55:59
Yeah, that's someone's back porch, right, where they're going to be looking at the back of someone's unit.
00:56:04
So this is something I would just flag.
00:56:06
I feel like that's something important to evaluate.
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:56:10
Yeah, I think there's going to be a conflict in these infill developments always, right?
00:56:15
Because the neighborhood over here is six units an acre.
00:56:18
We're six units an acre.
00:56:20
We have basically the same matching setback as they do in the back, I think.
00:56:23
We have our double sidewalk setback is in the side next to 230.
00:56:28
So this would be the standard setback applicable to all residential zoning districts.
00:56:32
And so yes, there's going to be disruption within their backyard.
00:56:34
I'm certainly not going to deny that.
00:56:37
But when you have these infill projects, it's sort of the nature of it because these houses were built the bare minimum off the setback when they were built to maximize the space they had.
00:56:47
And then so if someone comes in later and they're going to do the same thing, and it does seem different for folks, but the reality is
00:56:53
these houses will be the same distance, or more or less, I don't know, I haven't measured these, but the same setbacks are essentially applied on both sides.
Corey Clayborne
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:56:59
Yeah, and maybe the takeaway of what I'm saying here, it's an opportunity, right?
00:57:04
Maybe it's not just your typical back of the facade and people are throwing trash cans, recycling bins back there, right?
00:57:11
Like, I think it's an opportunity to do something to respect those existing units that are sitting on top of the hill.
00:57:17
That's a fair point, for sure.
00:57:19
Anything around site lighting, around the pass?
00:57:23
that we need to be aware of?
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:57:26
At the moment, I had not planned any kind of lighting on these paths.
00:57:30
It will be a public path and a public easement.
00:57:32
I guess the county could, if they chose, if they felt it was a good idea, install some lighting.
Nathan Moore
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:57:36
I don't think you would in these sort of typical rural trails.
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:57:39
Hopefully the county folks have an opinion on that.
00:57:42
But I did not imagine any sort of lighting for this.
00:57:45
Maybe some small lights around the driveways and things, as you typically have in a neighborhood, but no
00:57:51
Large commercial lighting, no site lighting, no trail lighting.
Corey Clayborne
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:57:55
Just saying, even bollard lighting, just curious if there's anything that was going to be out there.
00:57:58
Sounds like no.
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:57:59
We were not planning on it, no.
Corey Clayborne
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:58:00
All right, thank you.
Catherine Brown
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:58:03
I have a question.
00:58:04
Would this be considered part of Corey Farm, and if so, would it go under that HOA?
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:58:13
It's not, no.
00:58:15
These parcels were developed separately many, many years ago, and Corey Farm was built around it, so the chain of title basically separates.
00:58:22
There's no connection to the HOA.
00:58:25
There'd be no crossover from one to the other.
Catherine Brown
Commissioner, Planning Commission
00:58:27
Okay, I was confused because something mentioned adding housing types to Corey Farms.
00:58:33
I didn't realize.
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
00:58:34
I think I say that Corey Farm is kind of the community at whole, not the HOA particularly.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
00:58:46
Thank you for your presentation and also for addressing a lot of the comments that we brought up last time.
00:58:54
I'm not saying that it's concerns are not still there.
00:58:59
I think you're hearing some of them and I have the same, but I do appreciate the way I think almost to the one you've addressed them.
00:59:09
I want to ask a little bit more about the stormwater.
00:59:12
because that one in particular, it was something that was missing from the last application, if my recollection serves me.
00:59:19
So you're picking it up at the low point, which is the far northeast corner of the site.
00:59:30
I don't remember this one from the last presentation.
00:59:37
The question that I have is, you mentioned the volume and how much you could potentially divert to there.
00:59:42
and what your limit, can you talk a little bit more about the limitations and could you?
00:59:47
Is there some way of making some improvement to the, I mean, I would think there would be an improvement because right now all of that is going down that drainage area, right?
00:59:57
Into the adjacent property.
01:00:01
So I would think that anything you do should be an improvement, but can you talk a little bit more about any limitations you may have?
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
01:00:08
Sure, well, you're right.
01:00:09
I think that basically the regulations are written
01:00:13
More or less, you have to leave the condition better off than where you started from.
01:00:18
And the regulations were re-adopted in 2014, so it's been a while now.
01:00:23
But before then, I don't think they were as thorough on the erosion issues as maybe could have been.
01:00:29
And you saw as a result of that neighborhoods with erosion problems because of the way stormwater was designed pre-2014.
01:00:36
So the way the math works now, you
01:00:41
I can give a numerical example of some that are similar.
01:00:43
So let's say in a site like this, if we were to increase with the development, we might have to decrease the base storm.
01:00:50
It's a one year frequency storm by a factor of five.
01:00:53
So the flow rate would go down by a factor of five.
01:00:56
Now the total volume of water might go up, but you're releasing it over a very long period of time.
01:01:01
And the premise of that is that the velocities are reduced in the channels, which allows vegetation to reestablish.
01:01:07
And so the drastic increase in flow rates
01:01:10
for your low storms, the common storms.
01:01:13
Basically the theory is that allows your vegetation to regrow in areas that have been damaged over time.
01:01:18
In our specific circumstance, basically we'll take all these townhomes would be way too much to discharge here.
01:01:26
Like we would not be allowed to take that water and put it this direction.
01:01:29
So we would have to take it, collect it and pipe it over here.
01:01:33
That will in turn create a larger requirement on this side.
01:01:37
diverting the water from one water to the other essentially will cause the math to work against me on the discharge here and I'll have to reduce the flow rate even more and provide a larger pond.
01:01:47
So that's, I cannot really do, if I were to take this whole area that drains down and cause the erosion and kick it over here, that would be an enormous stormwater pond.
01:01:59
At some point the numbers become hard to match.
01:02:02
The way the ratios work, if I take
01:02:05
triple my area that drains here and I added in, it becomes almost an unsolvable problem.
01:02:10
I did bring the slide up because I know it was asked last time.
01:02:14
I answered it sort of in a statement, but not the picture, so I hope this helps everybody.
01:02:18
But essentially, these are not zoning rules, stormwater regulations.
01:02:23
This water could not be discharged towards the direction of its neighbors.
01:02:26
The plan would never be approved.
01:02:28
without a collection point here or some kind of extensive stormwater management here but given how tight this area is we would take it over to this and discharge it that way.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:02:39
So your limitations basically obviously it's the size of your pond in the area and but there seems to be some capacity there right?
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
01:02:46
Oh yes and certainly we will the area that formally drained this direction we will divert from our site.
01:02:53
I what I cannot say is I would take the off-site area I think that would probably be not technically or not
01:02:59
Not simple, and maybe we create other problems that I say I wouldn't want to commit to.
01:03:02
But I can say that the regulations are written to leave the situation better off than before we were there.
01:03:08
I think that's a pretty safe statement.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:03:11
Well, what I do see as an improvement in this plan is that you've created some additional opportunities.
01:03:18
I think we've heard that word several times today.
01:03:20
And I think you have, in not pre-describing it, I think you have, what, 14 in the north?
01:03:28
Yeah, if we had 14 on the north and then you had four on the south, to your total of 18.
01:03:35
Now you have a max of 11 or 11, but you still can only get to 18.
01:03:40
So I think there's some opportunities there.
01:03:42
As I look at this, 11 still seems high to me on that north side, but you have the opportunity.
01:03:52
You're not saying there's 11, you're saying there's a max of 11.
01:03:55
and I would encourage you to have more dialogue with the neighbors, understand more about the opportunities with the trees.
01:04:03
There are some very mature trees that I think could be a benefit to the development, certainly could be a benefit to the development.
01:04:10
It's just thinking about how do we design that path that runs on that north side of the south parcel.
01:04:20
So I do think there's some opportunities and
01:04:24
Hopefully through the site plan process, there's still a lot more work to be done here.
01:04:28
Obviously, you know that, and perhaps there's some more dialogue that can happen with the neighbors.
01:04:34
So I would encourage that as well.
01:04:36
Is there any other questions for the applicant?
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
01:04:40
Sure.
01:04:40
Murray has another question.
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
01:04:47
Yes, hello.
01:04:49
So there's also with the path that's going north and south and the public area that will be amenity area, they'll be there.
01:04:58
How would the property line be clearly delineated so that people don't wander off the public path into the neighbor's property?
01:05:08
Is there any way that the be clearly indicated that where that public area stops and the private area begins?
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
01:05:19
We're talking about the boundary of the shared use path.
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
01:05:22
Correct.
01:05:22
The north-south shared use path.
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
01:05:25
Well, my belief is, and I don't know the exact number, but there's trees basically along that fence line to establish that line.
01:05:34
It looks like that from the being out there.
01:05:37
And so hopefully that would be an establishment.
01:05:39
There could certainly be a little fence built or some added landscaping as a hedgerow or something like that along that
01:05:45
that area very easily.
01:05:48
We left ourselves enough room to see that kind of green space is basically some room for fencing landscaping as appropriate to give folks who are in that path a feeling of I'm in my own space.
01:05:59
I'm not invading someone else's front yard, but I'm also not invading 330 side yard.
01:06:03
That was the goal of that location.
01:06:06
And then then also the answer is yes, there's certainly room and opportunity to create that barrier as needed.
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
01:06:16
Great, thank you.
01:06:17
And then also, can you speak a little bit about, can you hear me?
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:06:25
Thank you.
01:06:29
We're now going to open it to public hearing.
01:06:32
If there are those that are here to speak on this matter, please state your name and Magisterial District.
01:06:40
You'll have three minutes.
01:06:42
When it goes from green to yellow, you'll have another minute left.
01:06:47
And I would suggest that if you agree with the comments made, you can raise your hand, please.
01:06:53
No clapping or sharing.
01:06:57
I will call a couple at a time, so Nadia Anderson and then Paul Shurer is on deck.
SPEAKER_01
01:07:23
Good evening, commissioners.
01:07:24
I'm speaking on behalf of Liberty Hall again.
01:07:27
My name is Nadia Anderson.
01:07:29
I'm a resident in Liberty Hall.
01:07:32
One of our most serious concerns continues to be stormwater, just because of the part of the site that sits directly, the part that we're discussing that sits directly above from Liberty Hall.
01:07:45
The applicant is proposing to place buildings on a slope that already drains towards our neighborhood.
01:07:51
The grading plan shows that runoff will continue to move downhill towards Liberty Hall, like you saw on the map.
01:07:58
Yet the applicant has provided little downstream analysis, the modeling, the demonstration that the peak flows volumes are not going to increase at our property line.
01:08:07
I think we've talked a little bit about it today, but it's still water doesn't discriminate here.
01:08:14
When you place dense attached units and paved surfaces directly above an existing neighborhood on a slope without the engineering to provide safety, you're asking that neighborhood to absorb the risk.
01:08:27
I repeat what I said at the last meeting.
01:08:29
This design also fails the Creuset master plans requirement that infill be compatible in scale and design with existing neighborhood fabric.
01:08:39
While Liberty Hall is a mix of single-family and townhome structures, the applicant is still proposing 11 attached units in the northern block pushed right up against our backyards with no meaningful buffer minus a 10-foot strip.
01:08:53
There's no step-down, no transition, there's no attempt to soften the edge, and this is the opposite of compatibility.
01:09:01
What I want to bring up today is you told the applicant to go back to the drawing board on this.
01:09:08
You asked for a real design, redesign.
01:09:13
What I see is administrative edits.
01:09:16
It's the same plan.
01:09:17
The density is unchanged.
01:09:19
Building zones unchanged.
01:09:20
The adjacency issues unchanged.
01:09:22
Stormwater risks unchanged.
01:09:25
I don't think they responded to your direction from my perspective to reduce the intensity or improve compatibility.
01:09:34
I support infill, support housing, but we can't support a plan that places dense buildings directly above an existing neighborhood on a slope, provides no engineering to ensure downstream safety,
01:09:46
ignores the master plans, compatibility standards, and disregards the commission's clear requests for meaningful redesign.
01:09:55
I respectfully ask you to require a true revision, one that reduces density, provides real buffers, and protects the community from stormwater and adjacency impacts.
01:10:08
Thank you.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:10:10
Thank you.
01:10:12
Paul Schur and Amanda Young done that
SPEAKER_22
01:10:21
My name is Paul Sharon.
01:10:22
I'm also a resident at Liberty Hall, and I'm a director of R&D at a local medtech company.
01:10:27
I've got two kids that are at Brownsville Elementary in the area.
01:10:30
And one of the things that attracted us to the area is just the quality of the neighborhoods, quality of the neighbors, and that has stood up over the three years that we've lived here.
01:10:38
We're at 335 Patriot, which is one of the houses that's directly behind this row of the block of townhomes that we've discussed a couple of times tonight.
01:10:47
And, you know, when we moved in, we had this wooded lot right behind us.
01:10:50
We did not expect that would stay that way forever.
01:10:52
We kind of expected that par for the course.
01:10:54
We'd end up with great neighbors just across the fence at some point.
01:10:57
My kids are looking forward to that.
01:10:59
So generally we support the idea of building in this area, putting houses behind us, increasing the housing that's in our area and making it affordable.
01:11:08
The issue that I'd like to talk about primarily is that design, and I understand it's a conceptual design at the core.
01:11:14
But in particular, I think this layout is very problematic.
01:11:18
I hope that it changes.
01:11:19
That's what I'd like to discuss today.
01:11:21
So in particular, because parts of this land are not easy to build on, there's a stormwater management pond in about three quarters of an acre.
01:11:29
It forces a lot of the density into this undeveloped section of it.
01:11:33
And understandably, the developer wants to keep this density there to kind of preserve profit.
01:11:38
That makes sense to everybody on board.
01:11:40
In the layout that it has currently, this is challenging, particularly because it directs a lot of foot traffic in unanticipated ways.
01:11:48
So if you're imagining yourself in this conceptual chart, and you're standing just in this row of houses, you just moved in, you want to get to this footpath, it looks very appealing, you want to go south.
01:11:58
It's very easy to understand that somebody is just going to follow that nice contour right across somebody's lawn and build a kind of desire path right to there over time.
01:12:09
The proposal that you saw in front of you today had great amendments in terms of addressing reductions on paper.
01:12:16
It was really just an 8% reduction one unit.
01:12:18
They moved things around.
01:12:20
But the flow is still problematic.
01:12:22
We have houses that are not really blocking foot traffic south.
01:12:25
They're actually encouraging flow across the neighboring lawns.
01:12:29
Forcing people to go north to go south around another building is not a really functional design.
01:12:34
So I just kind of put it out there that we see on paper meaningful changes, but they're not functional changes.
01:12:41
So they met the requirement, but it's not a functional change.
01:12:44
So I'd encourage again, let's grow this area, let's put more houses in, let's have great neighbors come in.
01:12:51
Let's have a design that actually is functionally thought out and makes sense not just on paper, but when it's built, so that foot traffic goes in the right ways.
01:12:59
Thank you.
01:13:01
Thank you.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:13:03
Amanda Young and then Mark Espleen.
SPEAKER_13
01:13:10
Hi, good evening.
01:13:11
My name is Amanda Young.
01:13:12
I'm a longtime resident of Corey Farm and I'm speaking as a neighbor who knows the area well, the streets, the pedestrian patterns, which he was touching on and is something that actually I wanted to speak on a little bit as well.
01:13:22
So I'll continue to elaborate on that.
01:13:24
And as well as several of the property owners that would be directly affected by this proposal.
01:13:29
And my concern, similar to others, is not only just the number of houses that are being proposed, but the actual layout of how it's being proposed.
01:13:38
The site does not function naturally as a single cohesive neighborhood, as we've talked about the awkwardness of the squished townhomes at the top compared to the more standard single family homes at the bottom.
01:13:50
will cause that awkward foot traffic that he was referring to.
01:13:54
At the last meeting, the commission explicitly asked the revision to address that, and while the public path was put in, no meaningful changes happened to that path that would cut across by the boundary.
01:14:08
I think several of you asked questions that I really greatly appreciated, points of how will people know the difference between when they're walking on private property or not.
01:14:17
And I think the greater point is that, will that even stop them?
01:14:21
So in a nearby area, the previous property owner had no trespassing signs and even put physical barriers there.
01:14:31
And people still cut across those to get through because even though there was a sidewalk on 250, it was the more direct route and so was significantly faster.
01:14:41
And the fact that even those obstacles didn't cause people to stop, I think
01:14:46
is something that the commission should take seriously as a design signal.
01:14:50
And so that's something that I think we need to be very careful about while there may exist a path, how will people really work when they want to get down to 250?
01:15:01
For example, all of those towns, the people that live in those townhomes, how are they all going to take that, that, you know, long windy path to get there?
01:15:09
I think that the claim of six units per acre is great, but when a huge portion of that property is being taken up by the stormwater drain and a path that probably will not be used that often, I think that it is not a realistic thing to be able to say that that's what they're executing on.
01:15:30
Separately, I am concerned about the mature trees, though I greatly appreciated there was lots of discussion and commentary around that.
01:15:36
So I don't need to say too much on that other than certainly something that those of us in the surrounding areas are also concerned about and making sure that the character of the area is preserved and that as many of those trees are preserved as possible.
01:15:51
And I would highly ask, request that the commission consider putting in there, wherever there is possible to,
01:15:58
include proffers to maintain those trees or whatever can be maintained with the mature landscaping.
01:16:04
I think that is really pivotal to this sort of development project.
01:16:09
So, thank you.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:16:11
Thank you.
01:16:13
Mark Esplin and Steve Walworth is on deck.
SPEAKER_20
01:16:23
Good evening.
01:16:23
I'm Mark Esplin.
01:16:24
I live in Corey Farm on Little Fox Lane and
01:16:28
I submitted a counter proposal to the committee that came in a PDF, I believe, of something that would be an R3 zoning.
01:16:36
And the reason that I wanted to submit that is it is something that we as neighbors believe would be more appropriate and kind of blends the R1 and R6 that is around Liberty Hall and then McCoy Farm.
01:16:51
The sketch that I attached was done by a layperson, so I'm a chemical engineer.
01:16:55
My forte is in vaccine purification and protein separation, so this is not something that I do on a daily basis.
01:17:04
But nonetheless, I understand that it would need adjustments, but the layout that we proposed had a lot of benefits when talking with the neighborhood.
01:17:14
and a lot of things that we thought would be very beneficial, noting that we are all in favor of having more housing and having affordable housing in the area.
01:17:23
More than anything, some of the things that it would provide are opportunities to preserve the mature trees on the south side, private driveways on the south side instead of private roads and the requirements that come with that.
01:17:37
reduced stormwater runoff because you have less permeable surfaces and greater green space and trees.
01:17:44
And then it would also kind of give more opportunity to setback and buffering with existing neighbors, more green space for residents and the children.
01:17:55
that there will be lots of children that will come into the area.
01:17:57
The bus is already full there and that's fine.
01:18:00
And the fuller the bus, the better.
01:18:03
The less light and noise disruption to the neighbors, fewer parking constraints, reduced traffic to Quarter Farm Road, greater privacy for the Patriot Way.
01:18:15
and the proposal that we said that there would only be the one unit that would be facing Liberty Patriot Way, sorry.
01:18:23
So they would have instead of six units, they just have the one kind of looking at them.
01:18:29
And it decreased the likelihood of foot traffic going across existing property on 330.
01:18:34
So again, this was done by a lay person, but it is a viewpoint of something that could be done.
01:18:39
so that there is a transition from the Corey Farm to this new neighborhood to the Liberty Hall and would enable a lot of the considerations and difficulties that might be present in the current design.
01:18:52
Again, we're all for having infill.
01:18:56
We understand the need for growth and welcome new neighbors when they do arrive.
01:19:04
Thank you.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:19:05
Steve Walsworth and Julian Price is on deck.
SPEAKER_04
01:19:13
Good evening commissioners, I'm Steve Walsworth.
01:19:15
I lived in Corey Farm neighborhood for 23 years.
01:19:19
I used to work for a guy named Tom Michalichak.
01:19:22
He was a great mentor for me.
01:19:26
He was the only guy who was non-navy that a facility and a naval warfare center was named after.
01:19:33
He was an Air Force general.
01:19:35
And that's the kind of guy he was, very dynamic, very go-getter, and a guy who got stuff done.
01:19:42
One model that he used to have that I still try to live by is he said that you only achieve the standards that you set for yourself.
01:19:53
You only achieve the standards that you set for yourself.
01:19:56
That's a pretty important few words and I've done good by following those.
01:20:03
But I just don't see the standards of excellence in this plan.
01:20:08
There should be a standard of excellence for the infill, because that infill property is very valuable.
01:20:14
It needs to be highlighted with an excellent standard, and it's not in this one here.
01:20:20
We still have the same problems that we had in the February 10th meeting that five of the six commissioners had concerns about, pretty serious concerns.
01:20:32
and yet I just don't see that big.
01:20:34
There's some tweaking, yes, but are there still, there still are the same problems.
01:20:40
We still have 11 units on the north side depicted on that diagram there.
01:20:47
That's still, that's equivalent to like an R12 or something else like that.
01:20:52
And on the bottom is an R6, but that's it.
01:20:56
That's the only thing that is favorable about that.
01:21:02
We're not against the development of the Enfield.
01:21:05
It just needs to be done with quality standards.
01:21:08
We have no context, no flow.
01:21:12
We have Sparrow Hill neighborhood.
01:21:14
We have Corey Farm neighborhood.
01:21:16
We have 330 House, and it all flows together in with Liberty Hall.
01:21:21
But this high density area on the north side is not going to flow well.
01:21:29
We still have the same problems with not enough parking, overflow parking on the north side.
01:21:34
They're gonna park on Corey Farm Road or in the Corey Farm neighborhood, and that's not fair to Corey Farm.
01:21:41
There's still a lot of issues about that.
01:21:43
And all those roads are private and the driveway is private.
01:21:48
That means the HOA is going to absorb those costs for repair and for replacement of those along with the trail.
01:21:55
That's going to be private and the HOA is going to have to absorb the cost of maintaining and replacing or repairing that also.
01:22:03
And that stormwater system too, I don't know how
01:22:07
Thank you, Julian Price and Karen Price is next.
SPEAKER_08
01:22:26
Good evening.
01:22:27
My name is Julianne Price.
01:22:28
I live in the Whitehall district and I live with my family at 330 Windy Knoll Lane.
01:22:33
Just to clarify, our property is not for sale, so to the extent that the plan considers roads through our parcel, it should, I hope, be irrelevant to the current rezoning.
01:22:45
I was a bedside nurse for many years at UVA Hospital.
01:22:48
We like protocols.
01:22:49
We like guidelines.
01:22:50
We like master plans.
01:22:52
But sometimes we get an unusual case with highly individualized needs.
01:22:56
Doctors making higher level decisions, as you all are, rely on their bedside nurses to help them assess conditions and implement protocols.
01:23:04
So my ask is that you think of all of us
01:23:07
as your bedside nurses or the people who live there.
01:23:10
And our assessment is that this is one of those unique situations in which the guidelines can't meet the community and the land's needs.
01:23:17
We have to deviate from routine care in order to provide the right care, if you'll forgive the belabored analogy.
01:23:24
It's been over a year since this original ZMA was submitted, and there have been at least five different official versions and others that are unofficial.
01:23:32
The latest proffer doesn't even reference the most recently revised concept plan.
01:23:35
It refers to April 22, not May 13.
01:23:38
But despite the applicant's many attempts to reconfigure a plan for first 22, well, first three, and then 22, and now 18 units on two buildable acres, it continues to be problematic for all the reasons you've heard tonight.
01:23:51
And the reason is because it's not appropriate for these three parcels.
01:23:55
It's our position that the applicant does not have the legal authority to build the proposed pedestrian and bike path across our private easement.
01:24:01
The applicant's plan is an impermissible expansion of a private right of ingress and egress.
01:24:06
It's our understanding that a crossing of the easement by a public recreational path with connectivity to existing public streets and a future major road is an unreasonable interference that overburdens the easement, which is in conflict with Virginia Code 55.1-305.
01:24:21
Additionally, it is clearly outside the scope of the original intent of the 1960 easement, its subsequent deeds, and recorded agreements.
01:24:29
I think it is prudent for the commission to consider this proposal with and without the guarantee of a connecting path from Colony Drive to Coy Farm Road.
01:24:38
My personal opinion as someone who has had the good fortune to live on this land and know these collective four formerly family acres is that one or two dwelling units per acre is what is actually appropriate for this unusual little parcel given its many constraints.
01:24:52
I don't know how you make a cohesive neighborhood from a sloping C-shaped parcel with someone else's property in the middle.
01:24:58
or how a tiny HOA maintains three private entrances and exits, a public path, a stormwater pond that's going to have Eastern Avenue overflow, and a stone path and a meadow where nature has the upper hand.
01:25:10
But I also respect that we have a master plan, a limited growth area, and desirable walking amenities.
01:25:15
We could support a well-designed R3 proposal.
01:25:19
I know many of our neighbors here are three dwelling units per acre proposal.
01:25:23
Many of our neighbors could as well if it adequately addresses these problems in a thoughtful, respectful, and meaningful way.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:25:30
Thank you.
01:25:31
Taryn Price and Lori Schweller is next.
SPEAKER_18
01:25:37
Hi, I'm Taryn Price.
01:25:38
I also live at 331 Dinal also.
01:25:42
don't do any development.
01:25:44
I'm a software engineering manager, so this has all been a lot for me.
01:25:49
We haven't talked about affordable housing yet, so I'll just bring that up.
01:25:53
I think at least three speakers before me emphasize that this is an odd property.
01:25:59
We keep trying to jam 18 units into it.
01:26:01
Stop trying to make it 18 units.
01:26:03
Doesn't make sense.
01:26:06
It's great to have affordable housing.
01:26:08
We totally understand the need for that.
01:26:10
It doesn't make a significant difference.
01:26:11
As far as I can tell, it feels like drops in a glass of water in terms of the difference it makes in terms of affordable housing.
01:26:17
If you reduce the number of units, you still get some affordable housing units.
01:26:20
It'll drop by one or two.
01:26:21
That doesn't seem like we want to push for affordable housing to have these extra two units, if that's a big push, with all these other constraints and all the other issues that it causes.
01:26:35
I also coincidentally, if I can tell a story for a second, I went on a walk today with a coworker who lived in a very dense area of vanity, if anyone, I don't know who's familiar.
01:26:46
And I went to visit her there once too.
01:26:48
She was like, it was so dense and there's so little thought given to the amount of space we had for parking and green space that we constantly had parking issues.
01:26:56
They ended up moving to a new place because it was so frustrating.
01:26:58
They had so little space for their kids to play.
01:27:00
I went to visit her there once we sat in the cul-de-sac on some
01:27:04
This has been a problem for us if we make 18 units in this area.
01:27:13
It's a problem for all the neighbors that live there currently, but it's also not the greatest living experience for the people who will live there should we put that many units on the north side.
01:27:21
To be clear, although we've said repeatedly, oh, this is just a concept plan.
01:27:25
There could be 11 units on the south.
01:27:26
I don't see how that's going to happen because we've also repeatedly said we can't make Windy Knoll any wider.
01:27:31
We can't make the road to Colony Drive any wider.
01:27:35
So the only place you can add more units is that north side.
01:27:38
It doesn't sound like there's any way to do 18 units.
01:27:42
And
01:27:43
not have high density on the other side.
01:27:45
Sorry, I keep hitting microphones with my hands.
01:27:47
But anyway, that's all I wanted to say.
01:27:49
Highly agree with all the other points about the awkwardness, the parking.
01:27:54
Also, wildly uncomfortable to see a road through my neighborhood, not my neighborhood, my own property.
01:28:02
I don't know if that is normal, but if you could picture for yourselves sitting at a commission like this and watching someone draw a road through your front yard as if that's a possibility.
01:28:10
It's not.
01:28:11
We're not moving.
01:28:12
There's a good chance I'll die in that house.
01:28:15
The end.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:28:19
Thank you.
01:28:20
Lori Schweller and Fen Kow is on next.
Lori Schweller
Attorney
01:28:25
Good evening, Mr.
01:28:26
Chair, Commissioners.
01:28:27
My name is Lori Schweller.
01:28:28
My husband, Russ, and I live at 5303 Little Fox Lane, which is lot 7 of Corey Farm, which abuts the property to the south.
01:28:38
My neighbors and I, as you have heard, are not here to oppose and fill development.
01:28:44
We understand the county's need for housing, and we all support that goal.
01:28:48
What we cannot support is this plan.
01:28:50
The applicant proposes 18 homes on what amounts to two usable acres, the third acre being steep slopes committed to stormwater management in the existing home.
01:29:02
That's nine units per acre packed between existing single family homes with no buffers, no sidewalks and no street connections that form a coherent neighborhood.
01:29:13
The applicant is requesting waivers of the sidewalk and planning strip requirements because there is simply no room for them.
01:29:21
The stated justification that eliminating sidewalks allows for more green space is difficult to reconcile with the near complete absence of usable green space within the project.
01:29:34
Please consider this.
01:29:35
The applicant's own site constraints, not any exercise of planning judgment, are the only check on density here.
01:29:45
Access problems from all three directions are the sole reason this project isn't even more crowded.
01:29:52
This is not planning, this is a developer maximizing units until the site physically stops them.
01:29:59
Wendy Knoll can provide access for only three homes.
01:30:02
The existing home west of Wendy Knoll, 330 Wendy Knoll, and one home east of Wendy Knoll in the south building zone.
01:30:09
There is no room for a public street.
01:30:12
There is no room for a private street developed to county standards.
01:30:16
Nor can a few homes support the economic burden of maintaining one.
01:30:20
A rezoning to R4 at three dwelling units per acre, nine homes,
01:30:26
would be appropriate.
01:30:27
Our neighbors have said that they would accept that level of density.
01:30:32
To wrap up, I'd like to say a few words in defense of the trees.
01:30:37
Two old growth maple trees stand on the southern boundary of the subject property.
01:30:42
They shaded the Herring family homes for generations.
01:30:47
The applicant has offered no proffer to preserve them
01:30:50
because preserving them would constrain density.
01:30:53
These trees are non-renewable.
01:30:55
You cannot plant replacements for our or even our children's lifetimes.
01:31:01
These beautiful trees provide shade and comfort and a sense of calm to the neighborhood.
01:31:05
Whatever else a developer can work around, there is no substitute for trees that took a century or more to grow.
01:31:11
The cost of saving them is small and their loss is permanent.
01:31:16
Please recommend denial and guide the applicant toward a proposal this community can welcome.
01:31:21
Thank you.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:31:24
Thank you.
01:31:25
Ben Kao and Kate O'Neill is on next.
SPEAKER_09
01:31:35
Hello commissioners.
01:31:38
I hope everyone has a nice evening.
01:31:41
Okay.
01:31:42
My name is Feng Kuo and I live in Liberty Hall.
01:31:46
Okay, after reviewing and, you know, carefully look at the applicants, May 26, 2026, revised counseling plan, I do have many serious concerns.
01:32:04
about this proposed new housing development, okay?
01:32:10
My first concern is, you know, many residents either in Liberty Hall or in Corrie Farm already address, okay, storm water issue.
01:32:26
Okay.
01:32:27
And my second concern, you know, two of the commissioner already addressed about the south side zones, 11th,
01:32:42
Okay, one, six unions attached row and the other one, four.
01:32:47
The other row is four attached union, Tang Hong, okay?
01:32:53
It's way too dense, okay?
01:32:57
I know the applicant has already changed their comprehensive plan, but to me, it's way too dense.
01:33:06
And the third of all is, how about the parking space?
01:33:11
the parking space in the north side of the Bill Town Hall area.
01:33:19
Apparently, based on already revised concept plan, I don't see, maybe I'm not in this field, but I don't think the African
01:33:34
taking into consideration about the future parking space in the north side zone.
01:33:43
And also I want to address about the trees issue.
01:33:50
In Northside Road, those are six attached town hall union.
01:34:01
Alongside the backside on the other side is three single family home in Patriot Way.
01:34:13
I truly believe either developer or the builder need to take into consideration about planting trees
01:34:28
you know, it got to have trees.
01:34:30
I think for the Liberty Hall, Patriot Way is a resident.
01:34:37
It's good and also good for the future buyers of those that attach Sixth Union Town Hall.
01:34:45
So, you know, trees are very important.
01:34:48
You know, it need to have tree for privacy issue.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:34:52
Thank you.
SPEAKER_09
01:34:53
Thank you.
01:34:53
Thank you for your service.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:34:58
Kate O'Neill.
SPEAKER_11
01:35:02
Hi, my name is Kate O'Neill.
01:35:03
I'm a resident of Corey Farm and an alumni of Western Albemarle High School.
01:35:08
From my backyard, I can see Corey Farm Road and I think it's worth pointing out that's the road that we intentionally taught our kids to ride their bikes on because it was the safest.
01:35:18
There's about three homes of cars that come and go.
01:35:21
I cannot imagine the shock to the traffic system that would be created from 18 residences coming in and out of Corey Farm Road.
01:35:29
There are kids there who have no idea that this development is in progress or being discussed and we as parents, of course, would watch out for them and show them what to do, but
01:35:40
to describe it as consistent with what currently exists is wildly inaccurate.
01:35:45
So I would encourage you to please reconsider the development and underscore all of the points made by my neighbors here today.
01:35:52
Thank you.
01:35:54
That's it.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:35:55
Thank you.
01:35:58
I've come to the end of my signup list.
01:36:00
So if there's anyone in the audience that would like to speak to this matter, please come up and as the others state your name, I just hear a district and you have three minutes.
SPEAKER_25
01:36:10
My name is Jason Kruma from West Hall District.
01:36:12
I'm in 5327 Little Fox Lane.
01:36:15
I wasn't going to talk, but Commissioner Brown had a question about the area on the southwest.
01:36:20
That's my backyard.
01:36:21
and there is a home already developed there.
01:36:24
Some of those giant red maples are on that property side of that home as well.
01:36:30
I would really like to have someone in that house.
01:36:33
I miss having a neighbor there, especially when the branches on those trees start falling on my property.
01:36:38
Who can I talk to to deal with those issues right there?
01:36:42
So just echoing what many of my neighbors have said, not opposed to having people in that area, to having neighbors and to developing the area.
01:36:51
I was also here at the February meeting and there's two concerns that I heard the commission bring up that I have not really heard addressed in the concept plan.
01:37:00
Here, one of them being you're asking for R6, but only in technically is that met, but the actual densities in the areas, especially in the top, does not meet that R6.
01:37:14
So the feel
01:37:16
It's the letter of the law, but not the meaning of law.
01:37:19
But also another concern that was brought up was the just access of people going to walk across our neighbor's yard at 330.
01:37:28
Wendy Knoll, how can you prevent that?
01:37:30
And even in this concept plan, there's no real direction to kind of block people from going through that.
01:37:37
You can even shift the houses in one way, the townhouses, so that access through their yard
01:37:43
is not even a consideration right there.
01:37:45
That would be neighborly.
01:37:46
That would be acceptable.
01:37:48
Seeing the old concept of trying to put a road through kind of opened my eyes.
01:37:52
Oh, maybe they're expecting they're going to get that property at some point.
01:37:56
But there are ways to redesign the concept so it still respects the neighbors in that way.
01:38:01
That's all I have to say.
01:38:02
Thank you.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:38:04
Thank you.
SPEAKER_23
01:38:16
Good evening commissioners.
01:38:18
My name is Michael Crenshaw.
01:38:20
I'm a resident of Crozet.
01:38:22
Housing is a human right and Albemarle County has failed to guarantee that right.
01:38:27
61% of the people who work in Albemarle County commute from elsewhere.
01:38:31
The people who work here cannot afford to live here.
01:38:34
I joke that I can measure the affordability of Crozet by whether I get to know the barista's name before they move to Waynesboro.
01:38:41
One of those workers who moved out now commutes into Crozet and his partner commutes into the city to teach.
01:38:47
Between them, that's an extra 260 hours spent a year commuting, not to mention the cost of gas and the cost of wear and tear on their vehicles.
01:38:56
I was here a few weeks ago to speak in favor of additional manufactured homes at Beaver Hill.
01:39:01
That development was rejected because it's outside of the development area and because of concerns about impacting the water supply.
01:39:08
The Water Authority says we have the water we need.
01:39:11
What workers lack is affordable housing.
01:39:14
If we're going to prevent the construction of affordable homes adjacent to the development area, the least we can do is allow infill construction within the development area.
01:39:24
Even with these new units, the general area's density will remain well below the minimum called for by the Crozet Master Plan.
01:39:32
This proposal represents a really exciting opportunity for the county to provide more people access to one of Crozet's three main activity centers.
01:39:41
The new homes would be within a few hundred feet of five restaurants, a grocery store, and a number of other businesses.
01:39:48
I commute by car to the seafood store.
01:39:50
I'd really love to take this path there instead, just take a bite.
01:39:55
I'm especially excited that the new revision includes this public easement.
01:40:00
When the Eastern Avenue connection is completed, that path will provide a safe bike and pedestrian access to the commercial center to thousands of residents who can currently only access the area by car or can't access it at all because they're too young or otherwise can't drive to these amenities.
01:40:17
I think that this might actually represent the last likely opportunity to provide bikers a route that doesn't force them onto 250 and most bikers simply won't take that path.
01:40:27
Given the recent closures of private paths in Crozet, it's important that it's public and I'm really excited that that's been proffered.
01:40:34
Albemarle County can and should be a place where people can work, live, and make their home, but for many, this county is just a place to drive into, work, and leave.
01:40:42
Infill housing within the development area is one way we can start to fulfill our obligation to the workers of Albemarle County.
01:40:50
As I speak, many of our community members are wrapping up their workday and heading home to the surrounding counties.
01:40:57
I urge you to vote for this proposal so that a few more of our county's workers might also one day be our neighbors.
01:41:03
Thank you.
01:41:05
Thank you.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:41:07
Anyone else?
SPEAKER_09
01:41:15
Good evening.
SPEAKER_06
01:41:17
My name is Constance Wenger.
01:41:18
I live in Corey Farm.
01:41:19
My concern, it would be the C part of this plan.
01:41:23
We have the northern part and the southern part, and it's showing a retention pond there, which at this point, there is a damp spot there.
01:41:32
There's no retention pond.
01:41:34
and when that pond is made, it is going to cause the loss of several trees in that area that are of good size.
01:41:44
Like I said, right now there's a wet spot there and there's trees that surround that.
01:41:48
Making that a retention pond, which I can appreciate is necessary, will eliminate those trees.
01:41:54
The other thing that is concerning is where does the water from the retention pond go and does it end up being
01:42:04
For example, going into the Corey Farm, because we already have erosion from some source.
01:42:13
So I'm not sure where that water would go.
01:42:14
It's not just going to sit in a retention pond when it needs to overflow at some point.
01:42:19
Another thing is that isn't shown on the maps is when the eastern extension is done, the width of that road is quite extensive.
01:42:27
And I can't recall how many feet it is, but it's quite a bit more than what we currently
01:42:32
have and it will visually, there's going to be a much bigger deal than what we're seeing on the map.
01:42:38
Thank you for your time.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:42:42
Thank you.
01:42:44
Do we have anyone else?
01:42:48
Seeing none, is there anyone online?
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
01:42:50
I have one person with their hand up.
01:42:54
Rashmi, please state your name or you're located and you'll have three minutes to speak and the chair will let you know when your time is up.
SPEAKER_07
01:43:05
Hi, can you hear me?
01:43:06
Yes.
01:43:08
Hi, my name is Rashmi Guy.
01:43:12
And I live in the Whitehall district.
01:43:14
I have some questions and concerns about the proposed Wendy Knoll development.
01:43:18
My first question is how will this development impact the stormwater management and capacity for the Eastern Avenue connector?
01:43:25
Also with the topography of the site, I'm also concerned that the dirt path will get flooded when it rains.
01:43:34
My second point is I've lived in a townhome community and guest parking was very limited.
01:43:42
It created tension among neighbors and it made it very difficult and stressful to have guests over.
01:43:49
Those that had more than two cars would permanently park their extra vehicles in guest spots and so there needs to be ample parking available.
01:44:00
My third question is, I'm curious how much the houses will cost if you don't qualify for affordable housing.
01:44:08
You know, the other point I would like to make is that many people live in Crozet, but they commute to Seaville.
01:44:14
and that's not unique to other parts of the state and even the country.
01:44:23
And my last point is that Crozet is mostly left with infill developments to approve and the county needs to figure out how they are going to account for the cumulative effect of those developments on school capacity when reviewing upzoning applications.
01:44:39
With more families purchasing townhomes and multi-housing units, the school calculation needs to be accurate.
01:44:46
Western is going to be adding eight more trailers next year, even adding one to two more students on the bus.
01:44:56
is going to impact, you know, with the shortage of bus drivers.
01:45:04
So, you know, there was in the narrative, there was something about center two.
01:45:09
I don't that we're still going to be over capacity, even with center two.
01:45:14
So that is not going to help those at Western.
01:45:18
And that's all my comments are.
01:45:20
Thank you.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:45:23
Thank you.
01:45:25
I guess we have one more.
SPEAKER_00
01:45:29
Hi, my name is Mary Esquina and I live in Corey Farm in Alito Fox Lane.
01:45:36
When we first moved to the neighborhood, I was really pregnant and our backyard was great.
01:45:42
It was big and it had a lot of trees around.
01:45:44
Soon after our son was born, we realized that we needed a fence because there were people crossing our property because it was easy to come from 250 to our street.
01:45:56
After we realized that our youngest son had special needs, we realized that we really need a fence to protect him from the dangers of the 250.
01:46:09
When we were building our fence, because that's something that we decided to do with my husband, we realized that behind the trees were a bunch of bottles of beer and glass that we were not aware that people were drinking behind our pine trees.
01:46:27
where I'm going to this is that we have a neighbor that have a big property.
01:46:33
How can we stop people from going through her property without a physical barrier?
01:46:39
Now fences are expensive and that's why we, my husband, we decided to build ours but our property is not as big as the property in question which is
01:46:51
Property 330.
01:46:53
So I will encourage to advise to build a physical barrier.
01:46:59
That way we can prevent people crossing our neighbor's yard.
01:47:07
Thank you.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:47:09
Thank you.
01:47:12
Anyone else?
01:47:18
Seeing none.
01:47:20
Jim, would you like to address some of the comments that we heard from the public?
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
01:47:28
Yes, thanks for the opportunity to address a few of these items.
01:47:31
I've heard a lot of things about the trespassing.
01:47:33
It's interesting what I have heard is there that a lot of folks actually walk up the Windy Knoll driveway to cut over through that path because there is no easy way to get from Corey Farm over to Cloverline.
01:47:48
but our development will fix that because we're going to put a public path right straight from Corey Farm through to a public road on the side.
01:47:57
So, you know, those are matters of mostly of, you know, neighbors and the people obeying trespassing laws, not running across people's property but maybe perhaps there is an issue there.
01:48:06
But if there's an issue, I would argue that our plan addresses it or makes a big step towards that because it actually provides a legal path across that area.
01:48:15
Well, you don't need to walk across someone's yard.
01:48:17
So I hope that'll alleviate some of those items.
01:48:20
I think the comments we heard about the cluster and the size of it, you know, it probably is right that we're building on about two acres and not on one.
01:48:27
But in a cluster provision, if we have three acres and we're building on two, there's one in open space, that's 33%.
01:48:33
the minimum is 25%.
01:48:36
So it's pretty normal to have that distribution of units in a development where you might have one third of the area not built on and the rest of the units dispersed.
01:48:44
That's a standard cluster provision.
01:48:46
We do that almost all the time.
01:48:48
I think one of the things interesting about the layout and leaving that large area open is I do believe that is the majority of the view of the front yard of 330.
01:48:56
The pictures were sent out there and certainly I'm not going to say that those townhouses on the north side are certainly visible in their house.
01:49:03
But in theory, that area is buildable, so I'm going to put underground attention in and build units along that side.
01:49:09
It'd be a bad design, but you could do that.
01:49:12
So I do think that the open space we've left is meaningful to the neighbors.
01:49:17
Now, I appreciate they want more of it, they want more buffer, but the reality is if you drop to an R3,
01:49:24
For one, I think the comprehensive plan suggests pretty strongly you should push towards higher densities, these infills.
01:49:31
I think in this situation, there's a record of too little around, not enough variety of housing types, and particularly housing is too expensive.
01:49:39
And so if you drop back to nine units, say, I don't think a nine unit development can support the infrastructure plus two affordable units.
01:49:48
So you'd have seven plus two affordable.
01:49:51
To get the affordable units, we need to have more.
01:49:53
18 is probably the minimum to make this sort of thing work.
01:49:55
But out of that, you'll get four affordable units under the current housing policy.
01:50:01
That's currently, the buyer right there is three million and a half plus dollar homes, which is fine.
01:50:09
Those are fine things to have, but you're talking about that could be replaced with other housing for folks plus four units at $260,000 a piece.
01:50:21
That is opening up that location to a whole different group of people that have been shut out.
01:50:26
And I think implementing this kind of project goes a long ways towards getting those folks into homes in that community.
01:50:31
So that's really why we talk about density.
01:50:34
Reality is, again, if the units were fewer, you'd build larger houses.
01:50:40
We see that everywhere.
01:50:41
But the numbers work here to allow us to actually produce a variety of housing for affordable units.
01:50:47
In a way that really is consistent with infill development.
01:50:51
One last thing I'll bring up is a comment about the planning through the house, the concept we had.
01:50:57
It's not unusual to think, if you think of a 30-year window in time, right?
01:51:01
There used to be other houses on these properties.
01:51:05
And so we were thinking about that and worked with the county staff too on that.
01:51:07
It was like, hey, would it make sense to set this up so at some point in the future this could happen?
01:51:12
But the reality is it didn't make sense.
01:51:13
We didn't end up not posing that.
01:51:15
We posed the public access path because what we heard from you all pretty strongly was that was the critical need.
01:51:21
So I think that the layout we have, while no one's going to find it perfect, these infill development sites are all going to be tricky.
01:51:28
And in fact, I'd argue
01:51:30
Rather than this being uniquely difficult, it's actually uniquely good.
01:51:36
I think we're going to see, next time we're back with one of these, it's probably going to be tougher land to develop, more slopes, stream buffers, things that we're trying to stay out of, but yet trying to get housing in the community.
01:51:47
I totally appreciate that folks are concerned about this.
01:51:53
Very reasonable.
01:51:54
At the same time, if you're going to develop a housing stock that supports a variety of incomes in the community, it has to be done this way.
01:52:03
And every project you hear will have opposition if it's infill.
01:52:07
And if you say no to all of them because of that, then none will get filled.
01:52:11
So I hope that it answers the questions that were addressed.
01:52:13
I appreciate the opportunity to speak with this and happy to answer any further questions the commission may have.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:52:19
Can you address the concerns over the parking on the North parcel in particular?
01:52:24
That's the one that's certainly potentially tighter if you do go to your MAX 11, which to me still seems excessive there.
01:52:34
How do you handle the parking?
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
01:52:36
So on those units, you always have two parking spaces on site somehow.
01:52:41
So you have a garage or a space in front or a two car garage.
01:52:44
County ordinance requires one guest space per four.
01:52:48
And so effectively, that's the ratio.
01:52:49
So if we had 11 units, you'd have three guest parking spaces.
01:52:55
And that does get
01:52:56
I think here it's sort of interesting that I feel like you could have a visitor who could probably get by with parking in the evening over at Clover's Lawn and walking down the path over to your house in that sort of situation.
01:53:10
We do have some connectivity in that direction to those vacant parking lots.
01:53:13
But yeah, it is a thing.
01:53:14
It's a balance, right?
01:53:15
We want to create tons of extra parking that are empty all the time and are not.
01:53:19
Now, they're not contributing besides being blank asphalt.
01:53:22
So it's a balance.
01:53:23
We follow the county's parking guidelines.
01:53:26
I would say most places I deal with besides Albemarle are pushing towards making that requirement fewer rather than more.
01:53:32
So I recognize that doesn't necessarily deal with the challenge of it, but as time evolves and people use
01:53:39
ride sharing, or maybe not in Crozet, but other places biking and things like that.
01:53:43
The idea is to simply not need as much parking, but it's, there's guest parking and it's, it will be a little tight for certain occasions.
01:53:50
That's true.
01:53:50
I think folks have to live with that.
01:53:52
And I do think a gentleman came at the last meeting and spoke to that and made a comment, something to the essence of, sure, I would love to have more parking for all of my friends, but I love that I couldn't afford a townhouse in Crozet more.
01:54:05
and that's the trade-off folks have to make when they try to make the decision to move this property.
Corey Clayborne
Commissioner, Planning Commission
01:54:12
I'm just curious, how many conversations with the community took place after February, between February and now?
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
01:54:23
With me personally, none.
Corey Clayborne
Commissioner, Planning Commission
01:54:25
Or your client.
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
01:54:27
I could not tell you, actually.
01:54:28
I do not know.
01:54:28
They were communicating with folks.
01:54:30
I know that the client spoke with Schweller recently, but I do not know others.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:54:43
Any other questions?
01:54:46
Thank you.
01:54:48
All right.
01:54:49
We're closing the public hearing, and then we'll bring it back up here to the dias.
Nathan Moore
Commissioner, Planning Commission
01:54:57
The liberation.
01:55:00
One thing I just want is not really my whole deliberation or discussion, but one thing I did want to share for the benefit of folks that are here and don't come to planning question meetings often, and you probably wouldn't know this is that the way that there's there's some folks that are suggested it's not really six homes per acre because they're all kind of squeezed into just two sections.
01:55:20
And I just wanted to explain one of the things the county has done for some time now is to calculate the per acre
01:55:26
based on the gross acreage.
01:55:29
Even if there's a section that's not easily buildable, we still count the gross acreage.
01:55:33
And so even if that sort of middle section of the sea isn't easy to build on or impossible to build on, it still counts as three acres.
01:55:39
So that's just kind of where that comes from.
01:55:43
You know, people can agree or disagree with it, but it's just a thing that some of y'all may not know about.
01:55:51
Just to kick us off.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
01:55:58
Happy to go.
Corey Clayborne
Commissioner, Planning Commission
01:56:01
I'll start off with the positive first.
01:56:04
I do believe that what was put before us is an improvement over February, and I want to thank the applicant for that as well.
01:56:12
And I do believe it's appropriate to develop this infill parcel and bring density greater than R1.
01:56:19
I'm not here to say if R6 is the right number or not, but I do believe that it should be developed.
01:56:26
with the mindset that these three parcels together should operate holistically.
01:56:31
As I've been kind of listening to the community and just re-examining the plans also, I'm also not convinced that the infill design solution and affordable housing needs must come at the sacrifice of quality of life for the neighbors that are around it.
01:56:49
I really also prefer to have seen the density, how many reunions there was placed more on the southern side.
01:56:56
I said that a couple of times as well.
01:56:59
They're still on the north.
01:57:00
And I guess where I'm at now, I have concerns on if it stayed like that.
01:57:04
with the design of respect or even not respect its neighbors.
01:57:07
And that's why I made my comment earlier about the rear of those units.
01:57:10
I wouldn't want to see just some vinyl siding and trash cans and recycle bins and HVAC units out there because that's somebody's backyard and there's existing units overlooking that.
01:57:20
And I'm not sure if I have confidence that it would be done well in the current layout.
01:57:25
And I know it might not be fair to the applicant, but
01:57:28
Just, I see these things come before me all the time.
01:57:31
And usually it's just a vanilla, baccata, envelope kind of design.
01:57:34
And so I'll pause there, but that's kind of where I'm at.
01:57:39
So I still have concerns, but I do think it's better, but I'm not quite there yet at the moment.
01:57:44
So we'll go this way.
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
01:57:49
Sorry.
01:57:51
I mean, it'll be easy for me because basically Corey said everything that I would have said.
01:57:57
I completely agree with everything he said.
01:58:00
And I will also note that that four foot private stone dust path, I still don't think that's more like a path you'd go on a stroll or recreational walk.
01:58:11
It's not really a way you get around.
01:58:14
It's unlikely to be used to commute somewhere.
01:58:18
but I too also wanted to see some of that development shift to the south and even the way that the northern part is arranged there's all of those tight townhouses right up against people's backyards I don't think it has to be the same density
01:58:35
as the artist.
01:58:36
And I understand we have townhouses and single family and we have different mixes occurring.
01:58:41
We want to see that.
01:58:42
But I also wanted to see the this site more either more evenly balanced or shift more to the south.
01:58:51
It's a jigsaw puzzle for the public's benefit.
01:58:55
We don't get site design at this stage.
01:58:58
That's not normal.
01:58:59
The developer learns whether the density can be allowed.
01:59:04
and then does the site design.
01:59:06
So I am satisfied that the stormwater can be dealt with through engineering to grade the land and the
01:59:15
to go to the stormwater pond.
01:59:18
So you probably would be better off, those of you who are suffering from excess stormwater problems next door.
01:59:26
But I am just not convinced that we've gotten a substantively better design tonight.
01:59:31
We've got the access that we asked for.
01:59:33
I appreciate that.
01:59:35
I think that the public pathway coming off a colony drive is a good design.
01:59:41
I think you probably can save a lot of the trees and you as you know that they would lead to more likelihood of selling those properties but it's just the site is just so unbalanced and I appreciate what you said about the private access easement and the private street off colony drive but I'm not convinced
02:00:00
And maybe I should be convinced, but I didn't hear enough to convince me that you couldn't do more to increase the density on the south.
02:00:08
So I just feel that this design is still unbalanced in terms of what I would like to see to be harmonious with adjacent neighbors.
02:00:17
So I'll leave it at that.
Catherine Brown
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:00:29
I echo a lot of the concerns that have already been shared as well as some of the positive aspects.
02:00:37
Looking at this area that is kind of tightly contained without a lot of access, it's tricky.
02:00:48
I think the path seems like a good move that will be really valuable long term for people in the adjacent neighborhoods as well.
02:00:59
and I'm thinking about when Eastern Avenue is extended.
02:01:03
I mean, change is coming and you know that might be a ways off but this area will feel different and what seems very awkward now as far as how to get
02:01:17
into this development will certainly make more sense at that point.
02:01:24
That being said, it's down the road and none of that is figured out.
02:01:33
I feel like there's the potential to make this zoning work.
02:01:41
If you're able to bump up the density over on the south side so that it mirrors the density that is adjacent to it south of Colony Drive there.
02:01:52
I mean that just seems like the most logical place to figure it out and you have some space for parking there.
02:02:03
Where the density is bumped up against that ravine and 10 feet away from the back of those houses, I realize that's regulation, but it's not sensible and it doesn't support the quality of life.
02:02:21
I feel like this is a puzzle and it could get figured out, and I'd love to see it get figured out.
02:02:26
I think it's really important to build the density.
02:02:30
We don't have enough in our growth areas right now.
02:02:34
It's close to a lot of amenities.
02:02:37
It's a very important area from a walkability standpoint, and we'll have greater connectivity once that Eastern Avenue connection is made to other neighborhoods.
02:02:50
So I guess the main things I think are important.
02:02:55
One is the distribution of density.
02:02:57
I talked about that on the south side and whatever happens on the north shifting to be more respectful of the neighbors on Patriot Way.
02:03:05
I think that figuring out a plan to protect the private property of those neighbors who are there is also an important consideration to bump up the zoning to this level, as well as coming up with some proper agreement for protecting the most valuable mature native trees there, specifically the maple and the cedar.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
02:03:39
Thank you, Commissioner Murray.
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:03:43
Yes, I think everyone else has said some great things.
02:03:46
I would mirror the public path and the open space as being great attributes of this.
02:03:54
One of the points that was brought up was by others was the HOA maintenance concerns.
02:04:00
And I do have some concerns about that in terms of, you know, if we talk about affordability, now we'll have that big stormwater, the stormwater pipe that's going to carry the stormwater a considerable distance down to the stormwater pond.
02:04:12
What happens if that pipe fails?
02:04:14
The maintenance concerns.
02:04:17
Also, the private roads and other infrastructure.
02:04:20
There's some access point.
02:04:25
I think what makes this project a little bit challenging is you have these access issues that you wouldn't have in other sites.
02:04:35
And I think the reason that I've supported lowering parking requirements in the development areas is because often you have access to things like public transportation and you have easy access points, you have easy access to sidewalks and other things that we don't really have in this site.
02:04:55
I would say that protection of the private property nearby with delineating that in some way is important.
02:05:05
I also agree.
02:05:07
It'd be great if there's some way to save those trees.
02:05:11
I do think the way that those units are bumped up against the ravine is problematic.
02:05:17
If there's some way to do that, to solve that, and whether it's increasing the density on the south side, that's not possible.
02:05:27
I mean, I really think that, you know, it sounds like the community would support a lower density than this.
02:05:34
I mean, we have a comp plan density range for a reason.
02:05:38
I think maybe something that's not at the upper end of the density, but maybe closer to the other side, maybe not R3 and maybe R4, but something that's lesser than what's being proposed.
Nathan Moore
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:05:58
Oh, it was just in my clarifying thing before if I could circle back and do a little more deliberation.
02:06:05
Thanks.
02:06:08
Appreciate it.
02:06:09
I will hold tight to the floor.
02:06:11
No, I wanted to thank actually the folks who live at 330 Wendell and some of those photographs of the property.
02:06:16
It was really helpful to see it from various views.
02:06:20
also I mean I didn't really feel comfortable creeping on your property to get a look at myself I do try to go to the proposals that we have here right just to kind of get a sense of what's going on but that was that was good I don't know that that it entirely did for me what you hoped it would because I actually could then visualize oh what would it look like with like 11 townhouses there and I didn't I wasn't like immediately
02:06:44
you know, retching at the idea.
02:06:46
So, you know, I don't know if that is just me because I live in a denser part of the county or what, but I was sort of, it seemed like there's still a lot of nice green views.
02:06:58
But I do also very much sympathize with the weirdness of seeing a proposed road through your front yard.
02:07:05
You know, I think that's clear.
02:07:06
That's not actually part of this.
02:07:08
Your property's not for sale.
02:07:10
Virginia is a property right state, right?
02:07:12
It would take a whole lot to tell you what you can and can't do on your property.
02:07:15
And I think that also goes for this property, right?
02:07:18
The weird C-shaped property that we've got.
02:07:20
The owner can ask to build more homes in a way that's in line with our county setbacks and with water management and with modern construction techniques and all that.
02:07:30
And also to be in line with our county stated priorities for where we say we want homes, including townhomes, including denser development.
02:07:40
I've heard a lot of folks here say that they welcome neighbors and a few new homes.
02:07:46
What I'm hearing is just not townhomes.
02:07:50
What that means in effect is that folks only want larger single-family homes.
02:07:55
Those cost more, they draw people who earn higher salaries.
02:07:59
I don't think it's the role or priority of this commission to prioritize those neighbor preferences for larger single-family homes over people.
02:08:11
over the affordable housing that we can bring in, even fish and dribs and drabs.
02:08:16
So I do think that we are doing that a lot.
02:08:22
And we have so few parcels and so few properties that are still developable.
02:08:28
And so we are getting these proposals for 18 total housing units and then coming back and say, well, that's too many for three acres.
02:08:36
and we've got other proposals for small kind of weird fill in things that are really challenging in some cases.
02:08:45
Over and over and over we just aren't keeping up with the demand and what we're doing is never going to address the affordability crisis if we don't take larger action.
02:08:55
Now, just market solutions alone are not going to solve the problem on its own, but at least market solutions could stabilize things for a little bit better.
02:09:02
We're not going to see our property values drop because we build a lot more homes, but at least it could stabilize it for a little while.
02:09:07
And then some other outside market solutions like social housing, like land trusts, like limited equity housing co-ops, those things could maybe actually begin to solve affordability issues a little more on top of a lot more supply.
02:09:19
But we're not even addressing the lot more supply.
02:09:22
and as much as this proposal has some weirdnesses and I think that's just part of the terrain, we're basically saying, sorry, we don't want more supply even in this limited case.
02:09:34
So I'm not really there for it.
02:09:36
I do think very, very local neighbors notwithstanding, I mean the 330, yeah, you guys would be surrounded and that would kind of suck in some ways, I get that.
02:09:45
But I mean,
02:09:49
If we're planning for the county and we need more housing in the county, one of these relatively modest steps, we can't even do the relatively modest steps.
02:09:57
So I'm really kind of trying to figure out how we get to where we want to be.
02:10:02
And I don't know how we get there if we're not even doing these.
02:10:05
That's my thought.
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
02:10:07
I just respond briefly, if I might.
02:10:09
I have no problem with the density proposed for the site.
02:10:13
It's the way it's been arranged.
02:10:14
And I feel like some of us told the developer what we wanted to see, and we've got all of the burden shoved up against one part of the site.
02:10:24
And topographically, that is not necessary.
02:10:27
So I'm just thinking about how we can have equity for the people who have backyards and density and it is possible and I feel like as much as I want to push more housing in the county I want to push good design of more housing in the county and if that
02:10:44
If that takes a developer coming back for a third time or whatever, I'm all for that.
Nathan Moore
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:10:51
I appreciate you.
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
02:10:52
I appreciate you.
02:10:53
I don't have a problem with the density.
02:10:55
I just wanted to make that clear.
Corey Clayborne
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:10:57
I do think it's important for me to speak up just in response and not trying to change your mind at all.
02:11:06
But I'm not saying no because I don't like the amount of units that are there.
02:11:12
That's not it.
02:11:13
And similarly,
02:11:14
to a Commissioner Firehock was saying, you know, I could just throw this plan in AI and be like, give me the most units and it'll come with a solution that gives me the most units.
02:11:23
But that's not design.
02:11:24
That's the human element where you have to have the context of what's around.
02:11:28
And I like the term design equity.
02:11:30
that you use there.
02:11:31
And that's what that's what design is.
02:11:34
Right.
02:11:34
And so I'm sure you could fit 18 units on there.
02:11:37
And there's a way there's a design solution that doesn't feel like those who are existing living there or feel cheated or robbed or not thought of.
02:11:45
And so just a point of clarification and how you were just sharing your position.
02:11:50
That's not my position at all.
02:11:53
And I don't think the community said that they wanted single family, million dollar homes there.
02:11:58
That's not what I heard.
02:11:59
I heard
02:12:00
that, hey, it's just the way it was thought about and put there didn't satisfy what their desires were.
02:12:06
So just out of fairness, I think it's important to clarify that.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
02:12:13
I have the benefit of all this sage comment before I go.
02:12:19
And I do agree with a lot that's been said, including Commissioner Moore's statement.
02:12:27
We need to look at ways to
02:12:30
increase our density.
02:12:31
We've had the conversation multiple times.
02:12:33
It was one of the foundational points of AC44 on how we've left so much density on the table and how we look for these opportunities.
02:12:45
And this is a development that I think does have the opportunity to bring more density.
02:12:49
Obviously it was R1, so we're bringing more density and the opportunities there
02:12:57
What I liked about this proposal versus what we got a few months ago is that flexibility of 11 in the north or 11 in the south.
02:13:08
However, the one point that I find lacking from the comments that were made, we encouraged dialogue with the neighbors.
02:13:19
and it doesn't seem like that happened.
02:13:22
To me, that actually was one of the most important comments that we were trying to impart because that equity of design can only happen with dialogue.
02:13:34
Both property, the property owner of this site has property rights and they have rights to develop their property.
02:13:43
However, there's also people around them and it's a community that we're trying to build.
02:13:48
So I continue to encourage that.
02:13:51
And because that didn't happen, that actually makes me pull back a little bit because what I liked about this proposal was the opportunity for dialogue to improve it.
02:14:06
You're not going to get 11-11, you're going to get
02:14:10
7 and 11 or something around there somewhere.
02:14:16
But I just don't see the willingness at this point.
02:14:19
And I hope that changes because I do think that this is a proposal or a parcel that can have more density, can provide for affordable housing that we need.
02:14:31
And I hope it continues to improve.
02:14:39
Any other comments?
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:14:41
I did, but you kind of took my comment, which was that I also would like to see more dialogue.
02:14:49
I think it's a lost opportunity.
02:14:51
In fact, for this, the community went through great lengths to try and organize some meeting of the public to be able to communicate their concerns about this and talk about it.
02:15:05
All the applicant had to do would be to send a representative to the CCA and they could have had that.
02:15:13
So I would love to see that opportunity take place.
02:15:16
And I do appreciate the need for density here.
02:15:20
And I think certainly if there's a way to have more dialogue and achieve the density of this requested, I'm in full support of that.
02:15:30
I think there's better ways to do this.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
02:15:36
All right, commissioners.
02:15:39
I will entertain a motion.
02:15:49
Commissioner Murray.
02:15:59
I would give you the first pass if not.
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:16:03
I would do it, but I can't read it and it'd be on the screen at the same time, apparently.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
02:16:09
Yeah, I can't have it up and you up at the same time.
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
02:16:13
The motions are also in our packet, though, correct?
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
02:16:16
Yeah, it was in your packet.
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
02:16:17
Yep.
02:16:18
So he has a copy of it.
02:16:21
Does that mean he can't make a motion unless we can see?
Michael Barnes
Director of Planning
02:16:24
He's looking for it right now.
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
02:16:26
I'm confused on whether he can be.
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:16:57
I did find it.
02:17:00
Okay.
02:17:03
Just one second.
02:17:05
Okay.
02:17:07
I moved to recommend denial.
02:17:09
I'm sorry.
02:17:10
I have the wrong one.
02:17:11
I choose to recommend denial.
02:17:13
Ah, shoot.
02:17:14
I still can't find it.
02:17:15
I have the wrong one.
02:17:16
Let's see.
Michael Barnes
Director of Planning
02:17:19
Lonnie, if you'd like, why don't we put the thing back?
02:17:22
It's pretty straightforward.
02:17:23
Can you switch back over?
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:17:26
And I haven't know.
02:17:28
I'm sorry.
02:17:29
I'm going to recommend denial of CMA 25000.
02:17:32
It's 2507.
02:17:32
Yeah.
02:17:34
I could do it.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
02:17:36
I can't do both.
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:17:43
Okay.
02:17:45
Okay.
02:17:47
Yes, I have it now.
02:17:52
Okay, I move to recommend denial of ZMA 2025-0007 Wendy Knoll for the reasons stated.
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
02:18:10
Yeah, Lonnie, I think you have to state the reasons because the staff recommended approval.
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:18:16
Oh, okay.
02:18:18
I would say that
02:18:25
The lack of community dialogue, the lack of consideration of the way that the layout is done in terms of the dispersal of the units.
02:18:43
Is that sufficient?
Corey Clayborne
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:18:51
Do we have a second?
02:18:54
Second.
02:18:54
Staff, do you have enough?
Michael Barnes
Director of Planning
02:18:57
I believe what we got there was insufficient dispersal of units and a lack of sufficient dialogue with the neighbors.
02:19:07
Does that capture that, Commissioner Murray?
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:19:11
That does.
Michael Barnes
Director of Planning
02:19:14
Can we add some?
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
02:19:16
You can make a friendly amendment.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
02:19:17
Yeah, if I can make a friendly amendment.
02:19:19
I would also add to that the considerations on the stormwater is making sure that there's a clear path to mitigate stormwater concerns and also separation of property.
02:19:37
The boundaries, particularly around that western parcel, the middle parcel, where we're encouraging public traffic and right by a private property.
02:19:55
Looking at how that can be, whether it's through landscape or what can be done to mitigate just people wandering in.
SPEAKER_26
02:20:07
So if we could check with the original movement whether he accepts that as an amendment as a friendly amendment to his original motion?
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:20:14
I do.
02:20:14
I accept that as an amendment.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
02:20:17
Commissioner Murray?
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:20:18
Yes, I do.
02:20:22
Yes, I do accept that as an amendment.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
02:20:28
Any other?
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
02:20:33
Madam Clerk?
02:20:35
Okay.
02:20:35
Mr. Moore?
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:20:37
No.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
02:20:40
Mr. Murray.
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:20:41
Aye.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
02:20:45
Yes, okay.
02:20:47
Mr. Clayborne.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
02:20:48
Aye.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
02:20:50
Mr. Carrazana.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
02:20:53
Aye.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
02:20:53
Ms. Firehock.
02:20:55
Aye.
02:20:55
And Ms. Brown.
02:20:57
Aye.
02:20:57
Thank you.
SPEAKER_26
02:21:02
So the commission has before it also the two waivers?
02:21:05
Yes.
02:21:06
Unless the applicant wishes to make a formal motion to defer that or to request a formal deferral at this point?
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
02:21:12
I guess the applicant had suggested that they could be considered later, but he needs to formalize it.
Justin Shimp
Founder and Principal Engineer
02:21:21
Yeah.
02:21:21
I'd request a deferral of action on the waiver, please.
02:21:24
On both of them.
02:21:25
Yes.
02:21:26
Both waivers, sidewalk and the landscape strip.
Nathan Moore
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:21:32
Commissioners, can I have a motion to defer both waivers moved to accept the applicant's deferral request?
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
02:21:42
Do we need to do a separate for each of the waivers or can we combine that into- I think that can be combined into a single motion if there's no objection from the commission.
SPEAKER_26
02:21:51
And it would be a motion just to defer it indefinitely to defer the waiver request indefinitely.
02:21:56
Is that your motion, Commissioner Moore?
Corey Clayborne
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:21:58
Yes.
02:22:00
Second.
02:22:02
Madam Clerk?
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
02:22:05
Mr. Murray?
Lonnie Murray
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:22:07
Aye.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
02:22:09
Ms. Brown?
02:22:10
Aye.
02:22:11
Ms. Firehock?
02:22:13
Aye.
02:22:14
Mr. Cozana?
02:22:15
Aye.
02:22:16
Mr. Clayborne?
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
02:22:17
Aye.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
02:22:18
Mr. Moore?
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
02:22:19
Aye.
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
02:22:19
Thank you very much.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
02:22:24
Okay.
02:22:27
We are moving on to committee reports.
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
02:22:29
Do you want to take a brief recess?
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
02:22:31
We are going to take a brief recess.
02:22:36
Let's come back in five minutes.
02:22:39
How's that?
Carolyn Shaffer
Clerk, Planning Commission/Boards
02:22:43
You are live again.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
02:22:46
Calling the commission back to order.
02:22:47
Mr. Barnes, can you... Oh, well, actually, commissioners.
02:22:59
Committee reports.
02:23:01
I do have one.
Nathan Moore
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:23:06
Just that I went to my first LUPEC meeting, the Land Use and Environmental Planning Committee.
02:23:12
I saw Mr. Barnes and lots of others.
02:23:16
We basically just had presentations from Cho with the airport looking at, first of all, they're really, really trying hard to get a direct Boston flight.
02:23:26
So that would be pretty cool if that comes to pass.
02:23:28
And then also looking at some long-term plans for increasing the size and sort of large construction project in the future once funding and everything kind of comes to pass so that we can get larger planes in here.
02:23:45
So right now we're pretty limited by a really tight amount of space between the runway and the terminal.
02:23:50
So yeah, looking at some growth there in the future.
02:23:54
Also some discussion and a presentation from UVA Health System about transportation and parking and just some strategic moves to try and make the longest sort of incentivizing ride share and some other moves to keep the parking in a healthy space for a long time.
02:24:11
And then also a presentation about the three notch trail shared use path.
02:24:17
The one that is looking to connect all the way out to Afton Mountain.
02:24:20
And so some preliminary ideas about where that path might go, connecting all the way from the city all the way out there.
SPEAKER_25
02:24:26
So like what specific routes might be possible.
Nathan Moore
Commissioner, Planning Commission
02:24:30
That's still in development as Mr. McDermott made sure to let me know it's not final yet.
02:24:38
But there are some some some blinds being drawn and maps being made to figure out where it might go and what actual implications for the property owners that are there.
SPEAKER_04
02:24:49
Great.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
02:24:51
Any other reports?
02:25:00
Now it's Mr. Martins.
02:25:04
Thank you, Mr.
02:25:05
Chair.
Michael Barnes
Director of Planning
02:25:06
Tell us about the May 20th Board of Supervisors meeting.
02:25:10
Yes, sir.
02:25:11
There were two public hearings on May 20th.
02:25:15
First was one that didn't come in front of you all.
02:25:17
It was Townwood Drive, which is on Hydraulic Road where the intersection is off to Earliesville.
02:25:25
Across from that is Townwood Drive.
02:25:27
It's a county-owned part of property there, or I think the right-of-way is owned by the county, and the service authority was looking to put some drainage easements across it, so a fairly small public hearing.
02:25:39
That was one of the two public hearings.
02:25:42
The other one was staff was bringing
02:25:47
the secondary six-year plan, part of that containing the rural domestic paving program, as well as our URIP program, the Southern Improved Road Improvement program, on paved road improvement program.
02:26:03
The board ended up having a series of questions about those two projects, and we'll be coming back to them in the future to provide a bit more clarity on how we prioritize
02:26:16
pavement and or improvements to rural roads.
02:26:20
So those were the two public hearings that were held on the 20th.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
02:26:26
OK. All right.
02:26:31
We have new business.
02:26:34
Old business.
Karen Firehock
Vice Chair, Planning Commission
02:26:36
And new business.
Luis Carrazana
Chair, Planning Commission
02:26:37
No business.
02:26:40
In that case, we are adjourned until June 9th, 2026 at 6 p.m.
Michael Barnes
Director of Planning
02:26:48
Thank you.