Planning Commission Regular Meeting   5/13/2025

Good evening.

Good evening.

It is 6 p.m.

through information posted in the Albemarle County website, specifically on the Planning Commission homepage and the Albemarle County calendar.

During the meeting, there will be opportunities for the public to comment on specific agenda items where input is invited.

Yes.

And I have Mr. Missel and Ms.

Firehock are absent.

Thank you very much.

Are there any matters of the public would like to speak to that are not in the agenda today?

If so, please come forward now.

Seeing none.

Right.

Thank you.

Moving on to the consent agenda.

We have one item in the consent agenda.

Does anybody, any commissioner, have you reviewed it?

Are there any questions or any commissioner wants to pull that item?

No?

Okay.

I move to accept the consent agenda as presented.

Second.

All right, Mr. Moore.

Aye.

Mr. Bivins.

Aye.

Mr. Clayborne.

Aye.

Mr. Murray.

Moving on to the public hearing for SP2024-23, CBI Forest School.

Good evening.

My name is Sid Shoaf.

I'm a senior planner with the planning division for Albemarle County's Community Development Department.

Tonight I'll be giving staff's presentation for special use permit SP 2024-23 Congregation Beth Israel for school Dudley.

This is a special use permit request for a private school on a rural areas and parcel.

The subject property is located south of the city of Charlottesville.

It is approximately 1.2 miles west from the intersection with Old Lynchburg Road and approximately 2.7 miles east from the intersection with Red Hill Road.

It is located at tax map parcel 89-64, which is between 1644 and 1658 Dudley Mountain Road.

The subject property is approximately 156 acres and located on both the north and south sides of Dudley Mountain Road.

It is zoned rural areas and includes critical slopes and mountain protection areas, as well as the water protection ordinance buffer.

Lastly, the comprehensive plan designates it as rural areas.

This is a zoomed in area of the subject property where the proposed special use permit disturbance would be.

It is approximately 15 acre area that is directly north of Dudley Mountain Road.

The area south of Dudley Mountain Road is approximately 10 acres and not proposed for disturbance.

Overall, the subject property is mostly undeveloped aside from an existing driveway towards its eastern boundary and a farm road towards the western boundary.

The adjacent properties are all zoned rural areas and each contain a single family residence.

This portion of the slide is also impacted by the water protection ordinance buffer as shown as purple on the left side and critical slopes areas as shown as orange.

The proposal brought before you this evening is SP 2024-23.

It's a special use permit request for a new private school with a maximum enrollment of 144 students.

The other proposal is a special exception request that the commission is not required to make a recommendation on.

However, the commission can provide comments on the special exception, which will be included in the transmittal summary to the board.

I can discuss the special exception at the end of my presentation if the commission is interested.

This is a map provided by the applicant that provides an overview for the site.

Please note that the orientation of the map has shifted 90 degrees to the left, so north is pointed to the left.

Of the 156 acre site, the applicant's proposing for the developed area to be within a 15 acre area.

The remaining 146 acres of the site are proposed to be put into a conservation easement.

The applicant's proposed disturbance does not include critical slopes, mountain protection areas, or the WPO buffer.

Here's a screenshot of the applicant's concept plan if the special use permit and special exception were to be approved by the board.

The applicant's proposing for two phases of development.

The first would include the main school building, which is referred to as base camp on the map with additional associated school buildings.

The second phase would include additional school buildings and a religious assembly use building, which is permitted by right if it's for 200 people or less.

The applicant will go further into their proposal, but here's a brief overview.

The maximum enrollment request is for 144 students, which is for pre-K to fifth grade.

The number of staff would be 29.

The proposed maximum enclosed building area would be 23,600 square feet of building space, which includes the 11,000 square foot Bi-Rite religious assembly building.

The school would operate nearly year round.

The hours of operation would be 8 a.m.

to 5 p.m., with a morning drop-off period from 8 a.m.

to 9 a.m.

Throughout the entire application process, we've received plenty of public comment and participation.

As a reminder, special use permits are evaluated on a case-by-case basis, and the facts in each case are unique.

However, these are the four factors of consideration that are assessed by staff during each special use permit review.

For this application, based on the screening and setback mitigations proposed by the applicant and the conditions drafted by staff, we found that there would be no substantial detriment to adjacent parcels.

Additionally, the proposed conceptual plan limits the disturbance to areas where necessary, and the rest of the 141 acres of the site would be put into a conservation easement, which is consistent with the comprehensive plan and would not affect the character of the nearby area.

However, staff are concerned about the public health, safety, and general welfare from the transportation impacts of this proposal, which affects both the character of the nearby area and Harmony.

According to the Virginia Department of Transportation, or also referred to as VDOT, in 2018 the average daily trip count was 130 vehicles per day for Dudley Mountain Road.

For this proposal, the applicant has provided Institute of Transportation Engineers, or ITE, trip generation data, which estimates 589 vehicles per day for this proposed private school.

If the special use permit were to be approved, Dudley Mountain Road would have an estimated 719 vehicles per day.

According to VDOT measurements, the road width is highly variable with some sections below 16 feet and some sections as wide as 20 feet.

According to VDOT road design standards for rural local roads for greater than 400 average daily trips or also referred to as ADT, the minimum consideration for pavement width must be 20 feet and the minimum width of the graded shoulder must be three feet.

Based on the proposed average daily trip counts and the current road conditions of Dudley Mountain Road, these design standards are not met.

Additionally, in the last five years, there have been 10 crashes on Dudley Mountain Road.

Lastly, DDOT provided a review comment letter that shared the same concerns as county staff regarding Dudley Mountain Road.

This is also an attachment in the staff report.

Additionally, staff are concerned about the site line visibility at the intersection of Dudley Mountain Road and Old Lynchburg Road.

There's a maximum 45 mile per hour speed limit on Old Lynchburg Road.

And prior to the intersection with Dudley Mountain Road, there is a hill that disrupts the site line.

Staff are concerned about safety at this intersection with a higher level of traffic utilizing it with this proposal.

At this intersection, there is a high frequency of crashes with four over the past five years.

This is in addition to the 10 crashes in the last five years along Dudley Mountain Road.

Regarding emergency access to the site, the applicant has proposed improvements to the western fire access road for a 20-foot reinforced turf.

Our engineering division has reviewed this proposal and provided that this improvement is not allowed within the water protection ordinance buffer.

The applicant will need to provide an alternate road to access the proposed classrooms to meet fire rescue requirements.

This could be addressed at the site plan phase if the special use permit were to be approved.

However, the applicant should provide a revised concept plan with adequate fire access so that staff can verify that the buildings can be safely accessed in the event of an emergency.

In sum, staff found two positive aspects.

The first is the proposed use limits development to only 15 acres of the 156 acre property and 141 acres would be preserved.

The second positive aspect is that the outdoor environmental education is consistent with the comprehensive plan goals promoting greater public familiarity with the rural area and with natural systems.

However, staff does have a concern and said Dudley Mountain Road does not meet VDOT standards for rural roads with greater than 400 average daily trips.

Staff recommends denial of SP 2024-23, Congregation Beth Israel, Forest School, Dudley.

And I'm happy to answer any questions from the commission.

Yeah I know each proposal we hear stands on its own but I can't help but notice some really strong similarities with the proposal we heard just two months ago which was an environmentally friendly private school and summer camps located out in the rural areas accessible only with a narrow windy road without any yellow painted lines and that school asks for a maximum of

250 students at year-round events plus events up to 500.

Are you referring to the Living Earth School?

Living Earth School is down off of Redhill Road.

So following up on the condition of roads, please.

So a couple of years ago, we looked at several things.

We looked at a new school called Regent School on Reservoir Road.

And I think we looked at some enhancements that were being done at

Camp Holiday Trails, I get those confused with Triple C Camp, but I believe it is Camp Holiday Trails, which is up there.

Sure, thank you, Supervisor Bivins.

I don't believe we had any applications for Camp Holliday Trails, but there was the Regents School that came in on Reservoir Road.

I think in looking at that, we did highlight a lot of concerns with Reservoir Road itself during that process.

Some of the differences that I would note would be one that this Regents School was placed just about maybe 700 feet from Fontaine Avenue extended.

So it's only a very short distance.

of a road

and then did some spot improvements in places between their property and Fontaine Avenue extended.

And then I guess finally just checking crash data on the two roads.

There's very few crashes surprisingly on Reservoir Road.

compared to Dudley Mountain Road.

So we looked at the numbers there and and I don't think there were any crashes in the net in the previous five years along that section of Fontaine between or on that section of reservoir between Fontaine and Regent School.

Yeah, so I was just wondering about the, let's say that something like this went forward, what are the options that the county has in terms of improving that road?

No, there really aren't a lot of options for that.

You know, VDOT obviously does go in and do regular maintenance on the road, but for any improvement that would widen the paved width or add shoulders, we don't have a direct funding source for that.

So that would be something that the county would actually have to fund or identify some funding for through grants.

And it wouldn't qualify for something like a smart scale, the major transportation grants in the state.

It wouldn't qualify for anything like that.

So that would end up requiring the county to probably put a fair amount of funding into significant widening like that.

Beyond that, it is also that the property on both sides, this is a prescriptive right of way.

I was just studying the speed and I was curious if this project would trigger like a school zone where the speed is, you know, 20 mile an hour, 25 miles per hour while school is in session.

We can always look into that.

There's a possibility.

Typically, the school zones are used for pedestrian areas where you see a high level of pedestrian traffic.

They are occasionally placed where it's vehicular traffic that's a concern, but I'm not sure exactly what.

Yeah, I just had a couple of questions actually following up on my colleagues' comments.

So, Reservoir Road, when the Regent School made their application and they committed to doing some improvements, what is the process to do that?

Yes, exactly.

There was an engineering study done that identified two or three areas where the road did not meet the required stopping site distance.

So how far you can see along that road ahead.

So their engineers identified and then they, I'm assuming, it is a VDOT road.

Yes.

Correct.

Is that an option that staff looked at in this particular application, or are you seeing that the distance and the number of

Yeah, we did look at it.

It was a consideration.

But because, as Sid mentioned, it's over a mile in the area that we're really concerned with, because we think most traffic is going to be coming from Old Lynchburg.

In that mile, there's many more property owners throughout that section.

And we are not able to put a condition on a special use permit that is infeasible for an applicant

I just have one more.

Has anyone analyzed bike traffic on that road?

Yeah, from experience, there's a lot of cyclists on that road.

There's no other questions.

Thank you to the Planning Commission for meeting with us tonight.

My name is Jill Abbey Clark and I'm the Director of CBI Forest School.

For the past 27 years, Congregation Beth Israel has proudly supported child care needs in Central Virginia.

Our students aged 18 months to fourth grade, 70% of whom are under the age of five, represent the future of our community.

Let's get that cute picture.

In the spring of 2020, when the pandemic shut down our schools, we took a bold step forward.

We pivoted to a forest school model, embracing outdoor learning to keep our doors open for families.

This was not just about surviving a crisis.

It was about adapting to the needs of our community and ensuring that children had a safe space to learn and grow.

In a time when children and families were struggling, to our surprise, we were thriving outdoors.

And when Jeff and Julie Morrill, who also dreamed of building a better future, approached us to donate 156 acres of land, we opened up a new path to strengthen environmental education.

The land is ideal for a forest school, fields full of butterflies, hardwood forest, and a stream for children to explore.

and it's ideal for Albemarle County.

We will protect over 140 acres of undeveloped land and use it as an educational lab for future generations.

But CBI Forest School is more than a school.

It's important to understand that we are a program of Congregation Beth Israel.

Our synagogue has existed in Albemarle County since the late 1800s.

We are vibrant because we reflect the needs of our community, the needs of our children.

Without a special use permit, the school, which stands as a model of best practices in early childhood education, cannot exist.

Forest schools need forests.

Its rural character is not incidental, it is fundamental.

Good evening, I'm Kendra Moon with Line and Grade.

You will notice this is a highly detailed concept plan as the applicant has engaged with numerous consultants to put together a thoughtful and intentional plan for the land.

Some key elements of the site are the entrance, which is located centrally for the best visibility.

It is fully compliant with VDOT standards and meets intersection site distance, which I believe Reservoir Road, the Regents School did not.

And that was part of the reason for improving that road.

The drop-off loop is for improved internal circulation and queuing on site.

There's permeable parking.

and unpaved overflow parking.

The buildings are small and decentralized to maintain a rural and natural feel for the site.

And there are ADA accessible pathways throughout connecting all buildings.

There are two revisions which Sid touched on.

We had previously planned for the fire road to the cabins to be along an existing road bed within the stream buffer.

However, we are proposing to remove it outside of the stream buffer and replant.

The drain fields are to be relocated as well based on onsite soil exploration.

This site will be phased.

So in the near term, CBI is planning for three classroom cabins and a central base camp, as well as all necessary infrastructure to support the site.

Here are some examples of what the site will look like.

There will be natural building materials with earth tones.

A neighbor is donating this land to CBI.

with the contingency that it be placed in a conservation easement.

This easement will extinguish the four development rights associated with this parcel so that the land cannot be subdivided and they cannot build some buy right uses such as a winery, brewery, or single family residential.

This site is already enrolled in programs to remove invasive species and to replant areas on the site.

So this is not just a promise.

The efforts have already begun.

Central to any special use permit is how we will mitigate impacts on neighbors and the environment.

So this is such a beautiful area, part of the reason CBI is so excited about this land and why the neighbors are so adamant to protect their land.

It's a beautiful view.

The trees will be preserved wherever possible on site.

The parking will be screened from view.

The buildings are to be designed to integrate with the wooded site.

And lighting will be controlled and used minimally throughout the site for safety only.

This site is to be designed to minimize disturbance and avoid mass grading.

One example of this is that the buildings will be set up on piers instead of a slab on grade in order to situate amongst the existing terrain.

We will maximize stormwater infiltration through the use of bioretention practices and permeable pavers.

This site overall is a low water use.

There's a lot of text on this site we can come back to.

But on a yearly basis, the water use is comparable to just one or two single family homes.

Two things I'll touch on with traffic at the moment.

First is traffic demands.

and the second will be traffic safety.

So first I want to just remind everyone the definition when we talk about traffic trips.

One vehicle going to the site is one trip and that same vehicle leaving the site is a second trip.

CBI has actually gone out and counted, collected data on their peak hour trips and extrapolated that to predict what the full maximum build out of the site will look like.

And they're going to ensure a staggered drop off to mitigate peak hour impacts by having sign up sheets for parents that a lot 20 minute time slots where they will be dropping their children off.

In terms of safety, we've corresponded with VDOT multiple times throughout this process in the pre-application through plan review and then in an additional meeting with VDOT and county staff.

They have not expressed concern to us about this road.

The one tidbit they told us was to check for a 16-foot minimum width to allow two vehicles to pass one another.

The letter from VDOT that was issued two weeks ago does not express concern.

It simply states standards for roads

When we look at the actual accidents on Dudley Mountain Road, there have been 14 accidents in the past five years, which may sound high.

However, 10 have been at night.

This is a school proposed during the day, so we do not see that this correlates.

And a high number have been under the influence of alcohol.

The roadway is an average width of 18 feet.

Rural areas, from what we've been told by VDOT and county staff, they intentionally don't want wider roads as it may encourage future development.

And wider roads do not mean safer roads.

There is precedent for VDOT to allow similar roads to exist in their current condition with up to 1,500 vehicles per day.

Overall, this project is overwhelmingly consistent with the comprehensive plan.

It needs, a forest school needs a rural area to be successful.

And with the proposed conservation easement, this will encourage connectivity of existing conservation land.

The abutting parcel is already under a conservation easement.

There's a huge public need and it's only growing for childcare, especially for young children ages 18 months to kindergarten in our area.

CBI would flourish at this location and help to alleviate childcare needs for over 100 families.

I cannot think of a better use for this land than for young children to engage with nature daily and develop a deeply ingrained appreciation for the natural world.

Opportunities like this are increasingly rare and so important for the health and future of our planet.

Sorry, I would like to come back to some of the conditions that staff proposed at a later time.

Okay.

Well, we may have some questions for you today.

Commissioners, questions for the applicant?

Yes, I was having trouble seeing, so all the cabins are outside the stream buffer, right?

You've got, so they're nowhere near the buffer now, right?

Sorry, let me scroll back quite a few slides.

They are all outside.

So the stream buffer is this dashed line inside this mouse cooperating.

This dashed line here is the stream buffer, so all of the cabins will be well outside of that.

Maybe this is a better image.

And then do you, I know that we have, and why I live, we have a camp as well, a Girl Scout camp.

And one of the things that I found is that we do occasionally have issues with people speeding or going above the speed limit.

I don't believe so.

We would like to get to a place where I think we're coming together with the neighbors and communicating about, you know, shared like best interest for this site.

There's been, so Jeff Morrill lives, he's the owner of the land and lives along Dudley Mountain Road.

So there's been a lot of proactive communication to try to answer questions and just make everyone aware of what we're proposing.

Then I heard some mention of the possibility of a shuttle.

Yeah, that was a suggestion from staff that we look into using a shuttle to try to cut down on trips.

And CBI is willing to try, but we did not want to put that forth as though it's going to solve the issue.

This is 70% young children in car seats.

So we felt that a shuttle, while we can try to implement that, we didn't want that to be

Thank you Ms.

Moon for the presentation.

I have a couple of questions at the moment.

The timeline is unclear.

So there are a few factors at play.

This special use permit is one.

So we're showing the full imagined build out of the site so that we aren't coming back in the future for another special use permit.

And then the second part of that is the conservation easement.

So the conservation easement actually will go over the entire site, but there will be language around how many buildings will be allowed to be built.

So it'll be further kind of constrained by that.

So I think the goal is that in the next

Well, I might have to have Jill, if I'm saying this incorrectly, but we would work to finalize that master plan for the conservation easement in the next few years.

And thank you for that.

And does that impact the vehicular trips that we're seeing here?

That's what it is at the moment and that's the cap.

So we're capped at 144 students.

The other thing I wanted to mention about the bus is that we naturally carpool because we're a community school which means a lot of our families have more than one child who go to the school.

It's sort of a related question about traffic since we're talking about number of students and it's kind of a likely trips generated vehicle trips generated by that.

Has anybody run the numbers yet to see what the enrollment would need to be kind of lowered the cap to be lowered to to get to that sort of magical 400 or fewer trips for a narrow road?

We did look into that and to remain under 400 with existing traffic it would be 50 students which

it does not work for their current operation.

Yeah.

So we're going to wrestle a bit more with traffic because for me at least, that's the piece that I've got to sort of come through and go through.

The piece about what and hearing all the wonderful letters about this is what the school is.

I get it.

That's not my issue.

I am not here at this point in time in my life to talk about what is a good early childhood situation and what is not a good job.

You all pay your money, and you make that decision.

That's not my decision.

But my decision is about the traffic.

So let's wrestle a little bit about the traffic.

So Line and Grade sort of came up with the ITE trip generation that was 589.

And then when you sort of looked at the numbers, you came down to 112, assuming that that's the carpooling and people coming in with... I'll be quiet.

Thank you.

The 589 was total daily trips.

So that's vehicles per day, all day long.

The 112 number was peak hour.

Can you go back to your table, please?

So let's talk about that in conjunction to the table that you did.

There.

Oh, yep, there.

No, one up.

Let's go one up first.

Oh, this was the water.

It looks like- Then go down, please.

We don't need to talk about water.

It's raining.

I will say, so this is not the ITE data, but this is from, yes, CBI went out and counted for the current enrollment and then extrapolated.

So this would be at 144 students.

The trips in the morning drop off.

So it would be,

15 minutes.

So when I counted cars, it was no more than 10 cars in five minutes.

So again, we were just, people naturally go in different orders.

No one comes at the same time.

We all have different, some even come a little after the time.

So now I'm going to come back to your consultant.

So during your narrative with us, you made a comment that you knew of examples where there were 1,500 trips per day.

during a particular time.

This precedent for VDOT that I was referring to.

Okay.

And so we've spoken

Well, I'll just back up and say this comes from the Rural Rustic Roads Program.

And while Dudley Mountain Road is not designated Rural Rustic Road, it was paved prior to this program being established.

However, this program does exist, that it funds unpaved rural roads, it funds their paving and allows them to remain in their existing condition, even if it's substandard.

So that's a standard we couldn't, for instance, I know my colleague at the end here knows about this program and calls this program to our attention many times during a session.

But could we point to some place where we might be able, so all of us could say, oh, yeah, I know where that is.

I know that kind of road.

I've seen that road.

Because I think that will be helpful

I'm not sure of an existing road that's been through that program, but I know a comparable road actually is probably Reservoir Road.

The last 2018 data was 600 vehicles per day on that road.

So it actually does experience more traffic than this and is very similar roadway conditions.

And that was paved under real rustic.

And that was paved under rural rustic.

It was?

Yeah.

To just get the numbers square again, the current traffic on Dudley Mountain Road is like 160, 180, is that about right?

Okay, 130.

Which gets us to, if you use your methodology instead of ITE, that puts us at, what, 360, about 500, give or take, 490 instead of 400.

I wouldn't say that 400 is a magic number.

These are numbers that VDOT has standardized.

Likely they came out of FHWA guidance or USDOT guidance.

But they're assuming that if you have more traffic, then you're going to need a wider road because you're going to have more frequent passing and more heavy traffic.

So the 400 is the cutoff between the low volume and the mid volume roads.

There's even a high volume road.

So 400 to 2,000 is the area we're looking at.

Right now it would have to meet the under 400, which is 18 feet and two foot shoulders.

So we considered that as well.

We were thinking about the size.

Unfortunately, the road doesn't really meet that standard either.

So it wouldn't quite meet the under 400.

But like I said, these aren't magic numbers.

So I think there's a lot of variability in that and how the road's used.

So if it's a little under 400, it still may be fine.

So yeah, that's how it goes.

And then I'll just clarify with the reservoir road.

It was paved under rural rustic, but that was beyond the section that was where Regent School is.

And we do have those all over, but there's a wide variability in the orientation of those roads.

So we have a lot of roads that we try and get paved under rural rustic and VDOT says,

This thing doesn't even meet 16 feet.

But then we have other roads that get paved that may have 20 feet.

So rural rustic isn't really a standard.

I think I'd add one more point and that is obviously 400, like Kevin said it's not necessarily a magic number but the idea here is the more trips you have obviously cars are passing each other so they end up getting people slightly going off the road a little bit starts to break down the edge of the pavement where the you know it's not supported

You start getting people, there's not a ditch section out here, not much with shoulders.

You start to have this potential for the roads that are breaking down or people leaving the road as they are trying to pass each other.

And I think some of the, looking deeper into the traffic numbers, it's been ahead of several side swipes as well as head-on collisions on this stretch of road.

So that was the other sort of pause that we had as well as one bicycle.

was involved with an accident.

If I could just come back before it goes to our chair tonight.

I didn't see anywhere about using the property or using the area for fundraising activities, which would then sort of swell knowing that the number of people who support you know the swell.

In terms of the school, we, can you hear me?

In terms of the school, we don't have any plans of doing, other than a parent bingo night, you know, just regular school.

Can you say your name?

Oh, my name is Jill Abby Clark.

I'm the director of the school.

So I have one more question for staff, actually.

So currently the speed limit on this road is 35, correct?

I think I heard it said in there and portions there are warning signs that say 25 is appropriate.

We look at that a lot.

Unfortunately, for one, VDOT does have standards as to whether or not they will lower speed limit.

It's not easy to meet those standards.

They go into an engineering assessment and they do a traffic assessment to find out what the dominant speeds are on the road.

But I just remind you that lowering the speed limit typically doesn't lower speeds.

So they set the speed limit based on the geometry and then people drive the speed that they feel comfortable at.

So obviously I think we're all struggling with the main issue, which is this road and the traffic.

I think the mitigations that you've

I am struggling with the trip counts a bit here because I think you have a different

trip count than what we're getting from staff and I'm trying to get to your 589 and I know that there's a methodology on how the VITA can you explain to us the methodology how you get from you know 29 staff you know back and forth each day double it 60 trips 144 even if you assume that every child went in one car

I'm not getting to 5, so can you explain how that... Is a reminder, the 589 is not a staff number that we arrived at.

That is using the ITE trip generation model.

Right, I know there's a calculation, that's why I'm asking you if you can...

You know, we fully recognize that that is not perfect science.

They go out and they measure a few things that are similar to this.

In this case, the closest that the applicant could find to how they think their school was going to operate is actually a daycare.

So they use the trip generation for a daycare.

I recognize that number is that 589.

That sounds high to me.

That's not what I would have guessed based on the numbers that they gave us.

I didn't see that trip generation number when I first read the report.

I would just add to think about this when they go to the site that's one trip when they leave the site that's one trip and then they do that again in the evening

The morning and the evening.

Rough math, if everyone drives by themselves, 144 times four, 576.

Plus some staff.

Plus staff.

It's probably not a realistic- Everybody rides in one- In a single occupancy vehicle.

So it- This is, traffic forecasting is always, in this case, more of an art than a science.

Can I come back on something else then?

This is about buy right uses.

And I'm still looking at page nine of the line and grade civil engineering report because I'm trying to use.

So if by some particular reason, the Forest School said, well, you know, we've had enough of this and we're not going to wrestle with this piece of property anymore, we're through.

We've got another piece of property that's good for us.

And the ABC Vineyard decided to go there.

And the ABC Vineyard decided to sort of, you know, grow some grapes, have the grapes come into maturity and then start a wine tasting.

Is that a buy right that could happen on that piece of property?

Because if so,

I'm just trying to understand

When we look at what are the buy-write uses for this piece of property, and one of them is a vineyard, which could then have, according to the trip generation, and realize it could be on the high side of that, that the trip generation during its peak days would be over 1,000, 1,017, and if we were to do

Well, I don't want to do a brewery, but let's say we would do a cidery, because I like them better than breweries.

If we were to do a cidery, and that might be around, well, no, cidery is actually much more popular.

So that could be about 1,000 trips per day also.

And so I'm trying to sort of understand or be able to sort of intellectually wrestle with the idea that there are buy right uses that we would have very little control over the number of vehicles that access this property.

So that's the question.

That's my question.

Sure.

I mean, obviously, it's a hypothetical question and a bit hard to respond to.

I think you correctly identify that as something that the state has enabled as a buy right use.

I think we would still, from a practicality standpoint, still have some concerns about traffic.

It's a small road.

But because of the state's position on that industry, the county has many fewer options at its hands.

I looked this up, actually.

And basically, events with more than 50 visitor vehicle trips per day require a zoning clearance for a more intensive vehicle.

Yeah, they come by.

So it's a zoning clearance.

And then us, yeah.

Well, we don't go in.

It doesn't come by staff, right?

It goes to the gentleman in the back.

Thank you.

We're going to open it up now for public comments.

There is a lengthy list and there's a lot of you here, so we would ask that if you agree with the statement, please raise your hand.

Also, if what you're going to say has already been said,

I would just remind everybody we've been receiving letters since February.

The commission has read all these letters.

Staff has read the letters.

So just if you already heard your statement and you don't have to come up and say it again, I can, you know, we would appreciate that.

There is a lot of folks here today, but of course, you're welcome to come up.

I'm going to do my best with these names.

And I would also say, when you come up, you have three minutes.

There is a, when you have about a minute left, there is a yellow light.

They'll come out.

When you come up, please state your name and the general location of your residence.

Celeste Clomis is the first person.

And then on deck, we have Robbie Tom Guthard.

I am Celeste Plumas.

I am a former teacher at CBI currently teaching in Albemarle County Public Schools.

I've seen firsthand that the self-contained school itself, as well as the thoughtful, staggering arrival and departure had very little day-to-day impact on the surrounding community in response to what has been said since this meeting began.

These are parents driving their kids.

They're not speeding.

They are concerned with keeping their children safe.

The preschool is outstanding in many ways, meeting and exceeding standard set for educational success and finding a preschool in this community is very difficult.

It's hard to find a place for young children, especially in families where there are other children who have to attend school too.

Lots of these trips with cars are families with two and three kids, sometimes more.

I strongly support the school and its efforts to find a place to continue the work they're doing and see only positives for the community around with their thoughtfulness and their building civil and environmental awareness and holding their traditions.

And good evening.

I'm Rabbi Tom Goodhurtz.

I am the Senior Rabbi at Congregation Beth Israel, which is the only synagogue in Charlottesville.

First, I want to thank you on the Planning Commission, county staff, everybody here tonight.

We recognize how much time and care goes into evaluating these applications, and we're very grateful for your consideration and thoughtfulness.

As you mentioned, you've received many, many, many letters I know from our school's families and teachers and supporters.

Many of them are here tonight.

They're wearing green.

And I just want to take a moment to ask them all to stand or raise your hand, whatever you want to say.

You may be seated.

Rabbis say that a lot.

Out of respect for your all's time,

and to allow others to speak, we're limiting how many of our community members will come up to this microphone.

But if they all had the chance, here's a little bit of what you would hear.

You'd hear about children who have thrived, especially with different learning needs, because they were given the chance to learn in nature.

children who come home identifying trees and navigating creeks and growing into confident, curious, resilient human beings.

You'd hear from a local pediatrician who says outdoor education like this directly supports the mental and physical health of children, something she sees every day in her clinic.

You'd hear from Jewish families for whom the school is a lifeline, the only Jewish school within over an hour.

and part of sustaining Jewish life in our region.

And you'd hear from many of our families who are not Jewish, but feel welcomed and enriched by the values and traditions woven into school life.

This gift represents the largest gift our Jewish community has ever received and without this permanent may be lost.

You'd hear from families who moved to Albemarle County because of the school, bringing their businesses and long-term commitments with them.

You'd hear about a conservation-minded project, a small footprint, a planned conservation easement.

Our students are taught not just to learn in nature, but to care for it.

And you'd hear about the leadership, how they listen and problem-solve and respond and already are trying to offer thoughtful solutions

to traffic and their commitment to being good neighbors for the long term.

We ask you to see the bigger picture, not just the road, but what it leads to.

What's at stake here is not only a school, but a model of learning and stewardship and community that benefits its county beyond its boundaries.

Next we have Judy Ray and

Yes, my name is Judy Ray.

I live on Dudley Mountain Road.

I'm actually in the middle of it.

You can go either way, two miles each way.

I've lived there since the early 70s.

So I'm a long-term person there, and I've seen a lot of things change.

I've seen a subdivision go right behind my house.

I've seen another subdivision down the road a ways, one on each end.

A lot of traffic comes through there, and people are going to come through

to go into Charlottesville to the hospitals and things like that.

So we also have a lot of bicyclists.

What you've seen if any of you've been out there is probably not a whole lot because you're not there during the time.

But a lot of these bicyclists are UVA students.

In fact, there was one that was hit on a bicycle not too long ago.

So my concern now, they have a great concept.

I love the idea.

I love children.

I teach Sunday school.

I've got five kids of my own, grandchildren, great grandchildren.

I have family living on this road.

So my concern is the traffic and all the people that's going to be on the road coming back and forth.

So I would appreciate if they think about that and the people that have lived there for a long time, because that's my community too.

Thank you.

Hello, I think that might be a weather warning.

Hello, my name is Varya Zigli and I live right across the road from the proposed project.

We've lived there for about 20 years now and during this entire process I just want to say that there has been almost no communication from the school.

I want to say none to the neighborhood or none that I have

really experienced, especially after the mandatory community meeting.

There were a lot of concerns raised at that meeting about water level, water table levels, about the road, about other issues.

And so the

Lack of direct communication, active listening, engagement from the school with the community outside of the legally mandated permitting process is concerning.

We saw the updated application and it felt like our concerns were minimized or ignored, dismissed, saying, you know, that's not real.

You're imagining the traffic issues or the

you know potential water concerns so this makes me feel like there may not be a lot of recourse for us if this project goes through and there are changes maybe the time slots change or the way that the you know the traffic changes because of other development that's happening

So it feels like if that happens, what are we to do as a community?

I feel like the way that the process has happened so far is probably an indicator of how it's going to continue if this project moves forward.

So that is a major concern for me for having these concerns addressed moving forward.

Thank you.

Melanie Evans.

Good evening.

My name is Melanie Evans.

My husband and I fled at 1658 Deli Mountain Road on the 171 acre family farm that is directly adjacent to this property.

We have some serious concerns about the misleading claims in the special use permit application.

The application cites 156 acre tract but only 15 acres are actually being donated for development by CBI.

Mr. Morrill is not in a neighbor that's adjacent to this development and he's not donating the entire parcel, just a small section which is actually going to split this property into two.

The rest is not guaranteed for conservation so making claims of broad preservation is misleading.

The proposed cistern is not a true water protection system.

It offers no safeguard for the groundwater that supplies our homes.

If our wells are depleted or contaminated by increased usage, we'll have no backup, no water, and no legal recourse.

This is an unacceptable risk.

Labeling this as a school mask, it's true nature.

It's a year-round facility with regular visitor staffing and programming activity levels that are incompatible with the quiet rural nature of our neighborhood.

Virginia law and Albemarle County zoning requires that special use permits protect neighbors and align with rural land use.

This proposal fails on both counts.

The proposed school would flood narrow country roads, endangering drivers and children while disturbing the peace of the nearby homes.

It would also strip us and other neighbors of our lawful hunting rights that local families have responsibly exercised for over 25 years.

This area is solely rural agricultural area.

A development of this scale defies the county's comprehensive plan and erodes the character of our community.

Approving this permit would compromise the integrity of our zoning laws and open the door to spot zoning that favors one landowner at the public's expense.

Please uphold our zoning laws and protect our neighborhood.

Deny this permit.

Good evening.

Thanks for listening to all of us tonight.

My name is Lisa Grové.

I live on Dudley Mountain Road about half a mile from Old Lynchburg Road, so between Old Lynchburg Road and the proposed site.

My concern

is not with the school.

I love schools.

I was a teacher for 29 years.

Jill and I worked together when we were young and dewy faced.

I loved her.

I feel strongly about what children need.

I think every child should have a field school.

It's not going to happen in my life, but I think it's something desirable.

My concern is that not here.

I never thought I'd be a nimby, but here I am.

We're only talking about Dudley Mountain Road.

I know that some of my neighbors who are on Old Lynchburg Road are equally concerned about traffic.

And we've talked about 14 to 16 foot width requirements.

There's a piece of the road about three tenths of a mile from Old Lynchburg Road

that was washed out during the derecho, so about 14 years ago.

It's been rudimentarily patched on both sides.

I measured it today.

It's only 14 foot wide.

You've got to stop if someone's coming at you.

And the edges are really, really not in good shape.

Maintenance on that road is very spotty from VDOT.

The culvert under the end of my driveway was caught by a snowplow.

When VDOT was there fixing at Poplar Ridge, I called them over to show them what had happened.

And they're like, there's no money for this.

So, you know, I've tried to fix it.

A lot of people have talked about the similarity with Reservoir Road.

Reservoir roads also narrow and winding, but the Camp Holiday Trails location was only 1.7 miles from the winding road.

It merges onto Route 29, which is an arterial road at a dead end.

There isn't traffic from both directions, as there is at the end of Dudley Mountain Road, where it meets Old Lynchburg Road.

This 1.7 miles to Camp Holiday Trails is not densely residential.

as Dudley Mountain Road is.

I counted mailboxes.

There are many of us who live there.

The Dudley Mountain Road site is four miles from the nearest big road from the 64 interchange.

Hello, my name is Leah Baker.

I'm an Albemarle County resident.

I'm speaking tonight as a teacher at the Forest School, a parent of a current student and a parent of a recent graduate.

I have the rare perspective of experiencing every age group that the school serves as a teacher in our youngest class and as a parent of children who've grown through the program.

And I can say without hesitation, outdoor education works.

My oldest son completed every grade offered by CBI 4 school before transferring this year to Crozet Elementary as a fifth grader.

He's doing exceptionally well, socially, emotionally, and academically.

He's just been recommended for the most advanced course tracks at Henley Middle School across the board.

Teachers and administrators there regularly mention to me how impressed they are with how all of our former student transfers are doing.

My younger son is currently in third grade at Forest School, and we can already tell that he's headed in the same direction.

Both of my sons have ADHD, and both are thriving.

That's not something every parent with that diagnosis can say, but outdoor learning supports all kinds of brains.

It allows children to move, to explore, and to absorb information in a hands-on, sensory-rich way that traditional classrooms simply can't match.

For my boys and so many others, this model's meant the difference between struggling and soaring.

As a teacher, I've seen it firsthand.

I taught in the preschool previously, but the outdoor classroom is something different.

It's like watching children become more fully themselves, imaginative, resilient, kind, confident, and connected.

Now this extraordinary school finds itself at risk.

We've proven that the model works.

We've seen the results in our children and in the families who depend on it.

And yet we face the very real possibility of not being able to continue without a permanent home.

With screens increasingly replacing real world experiences, schools like ours reconnect children with nature, with community, and with themselves.

This school serves Jewish and non-Jewish families alike.

It's grounded in values like care, curiosity, and one of our biggest values, which is Tikkun Olam, and that means repairing the world.

That's what we as a school are trying to do one child at a time.

Please give this school a future.

Let's speak the clapping down.

Just raise your hand.

We get it.

Hi, my name is Krista Monchein.

I'm reading a letter in support of Congregation Beth Israel receiving a special use permit to build a permanent home for his forest school.

This letter was written by my husband, Andrew, who could not be here today.

His letter reads as follows.

I'm a member of Congregation Beth Israel and my youngest child attended the CBI Forest School for four years while it was located at Camp Holiday Trails.

I'm also a transportation planner certified by the American Institute of Certified Planners and an associate professor of urban environmental planning at the University of Virginia.

I write this letter as a member of the CBI community, but my perspective is shaped by my experience as a transportation planner and educator.

I deeply respect the expertise, diligence, and care that the county's planners have given this application.

They've been thorough and thoughtful in their review.

What I do hope you will consider is that there are two approaches to reducing risks on any right of way, infrastructural and operational.

Deadly Mountain Road will not be widened in the near future, but risks can still be reduced by establishing clear practices to reduce potential conflicts.

The Forest School has already proposed a range of options to reducing conflicts on Deadly Mountain Road.

By staggering the time and manner by which children arrive at the school, for example, the possibility of conflicts can be significantly reduced.

Based on what I have observed as a Forest School parent, the Forest School is ready and fully capable of successfully implementing these operational approaches.

The school is relatively small and run by leadership who have demonstrated their ability to flexibly and safely operate a school in this kind of environment.

The county's flexibility during the COVID emergency allowed the Forest School to operate off of a rural road, and it demonstrated that this is a school and community that can work responsibly and accountably alongside government to create a unique experience for our community, county, and region.

Principally, I believe that the Forest School has presented the county with well-considered options that would have quantifiable and demonstrable benefits for traffic safety while also allowing a truly unique school with no existing parallel in the region to support its community and the county.

The planners have been very thoughtful about reducing the risk of access, but I ask that you encourage them to work with Forest School to optimize and accept the types of operational approaches the school is ready and fully capable of implementing.

Hello.

My name is Michelin Hall.

I live on Dudley Mountain Road up on the top of the hill, just about right in the middle.

I've lived there for five years.

I went to the University of Virginia here where I met my love.

We moved away for a long time.

We started a business that does experiential marketing in 70 markets all across the United States and Canada.

So to say that I'm familiar with the permit process is an understatement.

And I guess I should start by saying I really do appreciate

and I'm a big fan of governmental processes like this because without them, everything would be chaos.

All the people would kind of go at each other and there would be some kind of a, you know, just a constant fight back and forth.

And so, first of all, thank you.

Thank you for hearing us.

And thank you to everyone who showed up here today to say, oh, this is democracy and this is what this looks like.

It really, especially right now, brings me a lot of hope.

I think that planning commissions and all of the city council folks can really help us come together around our common beliefs.

and help us plan our future according to the laws we all previously agreed upon as a greater whole.

They help us stay on the path that we've laid before us as a community.

I believe that this has got to probably be at least part of the reason why all of you decided to run in the first place, because you love it here, just like I do.

That's why I came back.

I want to see this place preserved for its nature, for its development.

I want to see it grow in the right ways.

For me, the decision about this special use permit is a no brainer.

If I apply for permits, no matter where I am in the US or Canada, there are boxes I have to tick.

If I can't tick the boxes, I don't get the permit.

It's very simple.

Sometimes that makes me real mad and my clients too.

And sometimes sad because we put a lot of time and effort in designing beautiful presentations like this and called to our people, the heart of our people to come out and help support what we're doing.

CBI is a great institution here with a congregation of just beautiful, big-hearted people who are a community, a true community.

And a lot of them are my friends.

And so this is kind of also hard because what the experts who've been hired to investigate transportation and water and clean water and whether the road is going to be okay have said, yeah, they tick some of the boxes, but not all of them.

So they've come to this conclusion, and the truth is the school's impact on the neighborhood, if approved, would change it significantly forever.

And it would make it a more dangerous place.

Again, they just simply haven't fulfilled the criteria necessary for a special use permit.

No harm, no foul, but it's a hard no.

My hope is that after this little get-together tonight, we can all get back to living our lives, that there might be a world where the neighbors of DMR and CBI can all find, you know, can work together to help find their new, more appropriate location, and that we can all celebrate that location together.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Vivian Dillard.

I live on Dudley Mountain Road.

I'm a retired pediatric nurse, so I like children.

And the school is aligned with my values.

I've been a member of Westminster Press for many years, since 1980.

So I'm just having this really emotional response because the school sounds wonderful.

but my road is too narrow.

I'm a stone's throw from old Lynchburg.

And I go that, of course I go that way.

I occasionally go the other way to 29 in Redhill.

The road's too narrow.

Two cars can't, if the cars are large, can't pass safely.

So that's where I'm stuck.

And then it really, it hurts.

So I appreciate your time and for listening.

Just raise your hand.

Thank you.

Thanks.

I'm here tonight to share my assessment as a professional ecologist and environmental scientist.

My name is Manuel Lairdow.

I'm here tonight to share my assessment as a professional ecologist and environmental scientist and as a former member of the Albemarle County Natural Heritage Committee and a co-founder of Blue Ridge Prism.

I have read through the proposal.

I have visited the site.

And I am very pleased to see the details of this proposal with respect to conservation and with respect to both water management and the preservation of ecosystem integrity.

I think they've done a spectacular job on that.

And as a professional with over 30 years now experience in mid-Atlantic forests, this is one of the best proposals for a school that I have ever seen.

In short, the buildings are small.

They are placed deliberately in the area that has already been most heavily impacted and they themselves will have very little impact.

The areas to be preserved on the south side of Dudley Mountain Road and the upper part area A in the proposal are the highest value both in terms of preservation of water quality and ecosystem integrity and the plans there are sound.

I have two suggestions.

Should the special use permit be approved?

One, I believe that CBI should seek out the advice of Albemarle County and Blue Ridge Prism in pursuing even more extensive invasive species management.

And two, I think there is some really good opportunities to help moderate the deer population through regulated hunting programs.

This I think is a great opportunity

to improve ecosystems in southern Albemarle County.

I'm not a traffic expert.

I can't speak to it.

The way numbers are calculated as a biologist make very little sense to me.

It seems as though if someone drove through, it would be one trip.

If we went up and back, it would be two trips, even though the same amount covered.

So I wonder about how these distances are calculated and sort of how this all works.

But most of all, speaking from a professional perspective, this is a very well done proposal as in terms of environment and ecology.

And after Cameron, we have you and I,

Hi.

Good evening.

Thanks for having me.

My name is Cameron Hardesty, and I live in the Rio district.

And I'm the mother of a current CBI Forest School student and another child set to enroll next year.

My family moved to Albemarle County to be closer to my parents and my in-laws.

And we were also searching for a safe and connected place to raise our children.

We relocated not just our home, but also my business, which is a venture-backed company that has brought investment and jobs to Charlottesville.

In 2024, I even received the Charlottesville Business Innovation Council's Entrepreneur of the Year award.

But one of our biggest challenges in moving care was finding child care.

Wait lists were impossibly long, and many families that I knew were also struggling to find options.

When we discovered CBI Forest School, it felt like a miracle.

A school that was not only a place for my daughter to have a safe and joyful and enriching environment, but it quickly became the heart of our life here.

We're not Jewish, but CBI Forest School has welcomed us with open arms.

Its values, joy, inclusion, curiosity, care for the earth, these are universal values.

Through this community, our family has found meaning, connection, and a deep sense of belonging.

This is not just about my family, though.

It's about a broader need in Albemarle County.

We face a critical shortage of early child care education options.

And with only 5% of the county's land designated as developable, programs like CBIFS just cannot afford to make market rents.

A daycare near our house just closed after paying $30,000 a month for rent and dozens of families were just left with no options within a couple of days.

For small nonprofit programs, a special use permit like this one is really the only viable path forward.

But even that path is prohibitively expensive.

The amount of money and time that this community has spent developing this thoughtful proposal is enormous.

And if this special use permit isn't granted, there will be no second or third attempt.

It just won't be financially possible.

Charlottesville is growing.

The county is growing.

And families like mine are eager to put down roots here and to contribute to the economy.

But we can't do that without child care.

We all want more options for quality child care education.

But if this permit is denied, the opposite is going to happen.

We're going to risk losing what we already have at a time when families need more options, not fewer.

This school is an asset to the entire community.

It serves Jewish families and non-Jewish families like mine, even though my daughter self-identifies as Jewish as a three and a half year old.

It's for working parents.

It's for the local economy.

It's for business owners like me.

It offers a vision of what education can be, rooted in nature, inclusion, and care.

Please do not let this resource slip away.

I urge you to approve the special permit.

Thank you.

Yes, I'm Leonid Gigli.

So our property is just next to the proposed proposed development.

And actually, most of my concerns have been already expressed by others.

So I will not take much of your time, but just want to say that I feel that this is quite major development in this very rural area.

Twenty years ago, we decided to to build our first and we were hoping last house.

in this area just because of the nature of this place and I feel that with this development it will be very active site with 29 on-site staff and with 140 students coming

At least twice a day our parents will be coming and going.

I feel this will change the nature of the neighborhood significantly and likely to precipitate additional changes in the area.

Thank you.

Good evening.

Thank you for allowing me to address you.

My name is Dan Grigas.

I live on Dudley Mountain Road with my wife.

I think that the CBI Forest School is wonderful, a wonderful educational experience, but that's not the issue.

The unanimous agreement of the Dudley Mountain neighbors who know this area well agree that this is the wrong location for this school.

The work done on evaluating the traffic on Dudley Mountain Road, the limited view access as Dudley Mountain Road turns on to Old Lynchburg Road is spot on.

These numbers are generated out of great experience and research and are based in fact, and this poses a significant risk to the wonderful children that are going to be

potentially attending the school.

And that's a great concern to me.

I know that as I pull up to the stop sign at Dudley Mount Road, Old Lynchburg Road, that limited access, it's tricky and

For parents with their kids in the car, we're talking about four trips a day, this is a big deal.

I also would like to address the water issue, the groundwater assessment that's based on the county data, the four closest wells, one gallon per minute,

three gallons per minute, four gallons per minute.

The most was seven gallons per minute.

We're talking about 140 students, staff in the 20s.

It wasn't mentioned that in the application is also for an additional 200 individuals for special events and religious ceremonies.

This increases the traffic, the water usage,

on the engineer report on septic.

The best they can come up with is going to improve the groundwater.

I find that highly dubious.

And there's not enough detail there.

But we're talking about a lot of people using a rural area, generating a lot.

Thank you.

Thank you.

My name is Mary Ann Sullivan.

I live on Old Lynchburg Road, and my husband and I have lived there since 1992.

We've seen a lot of changes come our way, including a dramatic increase in traffic.

Last year, there was a event on the Polo Grounds, where the Polo Grounds are, at Forest Lodge.

The southbound traffic from there to Southwood on Fifth Street was backed up for hours for one event, one small event.

It was actually weed.

I forget the name of the organization.

It was for a weed event.

Anyway.

There's nowhere to turn around, there's nowhere to pass, and there's nowhere to go if you're stuck in traffic like that.

I wonder if anybody has been on Fifth Street at rush hour.

and the intersection of where you get on Interstate 64.

It's now backed up half a mile sometimes in the morning on the south end of Fifth Street and 64 with people trying to get on 64.

Add 200 more cars there, staggered or not, it's going to increase that.

There's a lot of impact on this, I think,

isn't just pertaining exactly to the location of the school, but

Outlying, nobody drives 35 miles an hour on Dudley Mountain or Old Lynchburg Road.

They drive 50 miles an hour.

And when we pull out onto Old Lynchburg Road, there's a hill up above us that's sometimes death-defying because you never know whether a car is gonna come flying down that hill as we're pulling out.

And we're across from the Rivanna Rifle and Pistol Club.

So the traffic is worse.

It's getting worse.

And I think the impact of this is going to be significant.

And those of us that live on the road know

I haven't had an accident on Lynchburg Road, but I cannot tell you how many times I've avoided an accident by someone being in my lane, either northbound or southbound, and trying to dodge them with no shoulder and treeline the whole way.

It's no joke.

It's real.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Ruth Ellen Outlaw.

I live on Old Lynchburg Road, and we also own a property on Sweet Hollow Road, which is off of Dudley Mountain Road.

I think the school is a wonderful idea.

The planning that's gone into it is fantastic.

And as a conservationist myself, I fully support the ideas behind this school.

It's how you get to the school that's the problem.

There's been a lot of discussion about Dudley Mountain Road, but old Lynchburg Road is one of the ways that you can get to the school site and Red Hill Road is another way you can get to the school site.

Another problem is the drivers that aren't school parents.

Living on Old Lynchburg, I'm watching the traffic and I'm seeing dump trucks going by at 60 miles an hour.

I'm seeing groups of cyclists riding, not single file, but next to each other.

I'm seeing motorcycles succeeding.

probably 80 miles an hour.

One of them goes past my house every morning and every evening.

I also see pedestrians sometimes and there's no shoulder.

So if there's a pedestrian walking on the road, I don't expect them to get off the road.

So I go towards the middle and I avoid them.

I am just concerned also about the intersection between 29 and Redhill Road.

29 cars are going 70 miles an hour, and you're trying to turn onto the country road.

The connection between Dudley Mountain Road and Redhill Road is a blind corner.

I would just encourage maybe

less focused on Dudley Mountain Road and more focused on the roads that you travel to get to the school site.

Thank you.

Just raise your hand.

Less effort.

I did.

Are you Bruce?

First, I'm Bruce.

And Brian Armstrong is on deck.

Hi, I'm Bruce Halaven.

I have been living on Dudley Mountain Road for the past 20 years.

I drive on the Dudley Mountain Road.

I come from both entrances, Red Hillside and from Old Lynchburg Road, so I appreciate the comments by the previous speaker.

who seems to be the first person who's addressing traffic coming from the south, which is a concern of mine as well because at the south end of Dudley Mountain Road is quite curvy.

I think the other thing that has not been brought to the attention enough is the number of bicycles.

I think it's been mentioned briefly, but

I would say in the morning hours, the evening hours and weekend hours, bicycle trips exceed car trips.

I have no doubt that that's probably true, certainly during the nicer weather days.

The other thing that I wanna point out is when the rabbi had the supporters of CBI stand up,

I thought that was a perfect metaphor for what the traffic on the road is going to be like.

We have 130 cars by the traffic estimate, and we're going to get swallowed up by cars.

And this has been spoken about enough.

I mean, love the kids, but that includes taking care of them and the parents who drive on the road as well.

Can you bring the mic closer?

Sure.

You know, one of the points that's been made about this is the proposed conservation easement.

And it would seem as though a great deal of the area that they're proposing for the conservation easement is already protected by existing stream buffers and critical slopes.

So, you know, it seems like a promise with no real benefit that the land is already protecting itself, it would seem.

I want to really focus on the traffic coming in from Old Lynchburg Road.

I don't know that the process that's used really communicates well with Mosby Mountain neighbors, with Whittington neighbors, with the folks there at Whittington who have to cross the road to get their mail.

The folks at

Is it Fiddlesticks Lane?

If you've seen that road, they have to roll down their windows and listen for cars coming that they can't see to go into town.

So adding, what is it, 500 more trips a day?

to that is really going to be problematic across the road from them.

Is it Newburgh Heights where they have to hug the shoulder to get their mail?

So really, not just Dudley Mountain Road, but the whole way into Dudley Mountain is problematic.

Blue Real,

Cyclery promotes Dudley Mountain Road as a nice route to go bicycle.

They call it a low traffic route, and I think maybe they're going to have to update their website, right?

The other thing is

My, the width of the road at my driveway is 16.

The quarry trucks, the dump trucks are eight and a half feet wide.

So, you know, there's a whole lot of extra traffic going through during high development times with those dump trucks coming through Dudley Mountain Road.

So thank you.

Please consider all these things to deny the special use permit.

My name is Diane Postnix.

I live at 2191 Dudley Mountain Road.

This thing about the gravel trucks is no small issue.

There is a gravel company on Red Hill, and they use our road as a cut-through to Old Lynchburg.

This goes on regularly.

It's not a rare event.

It's constant and I assure you they're not going 25 miles an hour.

My personal experience with the intersection that was claimed to be dangerous there at Old Lynchburg is this.

There's a very steep curve and a hill.

This is surrounded by residences on both sides.

It's not like you can alter this situation and make it different.

But that's what that intersection is like going on Dudley into Old Lynchburg.

I had an experience sometime back when I was on the way to the doctor because my ears weren't working.

I was deaf at the time.

And a logging truck literally drove me off the road at that curve.

I got out of my car and I was terrified because I knew I couldn't hear if that driver even spoke to me.

Okay, so I'm not one of your statistics of an accident that happened there, but I can tell you I was a near miss.

Thank you.

Yes, raise your hand.

Okay, so that's all the people that have signed up.

If there's others that would like to speak, you can do so now.

Hi, my name is Micah Kemp.

I live at 1948 Dudley Mountain Road.

I moved here this summer, or last summer, year, as of May 1st.

I understand the community interest that this project has the need for daycare, the need for a place to belong.

My wife, who's no longer standing, is seven months pregnant.

We walk this road with our dog every day.

We have 400% more traffic on this street.

It endangers myself, my wife, my dog, and my future child.

So trust me, I'm very supportive of the school and what you all are doing, but this is going to create a hazard for me and my family.

That's my biggest concern and the numbers are really clear that this does not fit the county's standard of being suitable for existing roads and result in literal discernible difference in traffic patterns straight out of the comprehensive plan.

There's extremely limited visibility on the road, which you already have heard.

I also think that the plan for ingress and egress is in a really bad spot.

There's over six places with 20 degree slope right before this coming off of old Lynchburg Road on the way to this school.

This is right when people start to speed up as it starts to get straight.

You'll see cars easily hitting 50 miles an hour in that stretch where I've had to pull into my neighbor Kevin's driveway several times to avoid a head-on collision.

because people cut that corner.

I also have questions about the stacking plan.

I saw a graphic up there earlier about unloading about 25 kids every 20 minutes in a 30 car long stacking plan.

Toddlers do not cooperate with a minute per unload and there will be backups onto Dudley Mountain Road.

Now you have a blind turn, you have a blind hill leading to backups on the street.

It is not a safe condition at all.

Other things that you've heard today, poor conditions of the road, there's at least eight failing culverts on this street.

Out in front of my house, it's 16 foot four inches wide.

You can't get past the school bus.

You can't get past the traffic from the gravel trucks without moving off the road.

So again, this really fails the key component that you are supposed to grade and consider this against, which is suitable for existing rural roads.

And so I would thank you for considering that, considering myself, my wife, my future child, as we are very glad to be here in Charlottesville.

And this is a place where we want to be for a long time.

So thank you.

Hi, I'm Todd Liebach.

I live at 1497 Dudley Mountain Road.

There's been a lot of talk about traffic on our road and that is a major concern.

One thing that nobody's mentioned is the road in winter.

Both Dudley Mountain Road and Old Lynchburg Road are notoriously bad in snow and ice.

especially where Dudley Mountain meets Old Lynchburg Road.

It's a slope and it seems that constantly if there's snow or ice in the road vehicles just slide down into Old Lynchburg Road.

It's just a really bad road in wintertime with snow and ice and I think that's, you know, you can extrapolate the number of cars

Multiply that when there's an inch of snow on the ground or it's going to be bad.

Thank you very much.

Good evening.

Stacey Derby.

I'm an Albemarle resident and a small business owner here in Albemarle.

Thank you, of course, for being here tonight.

I want to apologize personally to any neighbors here who feel that we have not done sufficient outreach and communication.

That is an absolute oversight on our part.

I also failed to mention I'm a board member at CBI.

I'm not directly involved in the Forest School, but as a leader of the Jewish community and part of that, I very much feel that that was an oversight and should absolutely be addressed.

And I believe we owe an apology to our prospective neighbors.

It is our responsibility to have reached out and communicate and build bridges.

But I want to reassure this board and everyone in this room that your concerns and the prospective neighbors' concerns are our concerns.

Change is very difficult, and we understand that.

In rural areas, we have this glorious beauty down here that we want to protect.

As a Jewish community, we live by the phrase tikkun olam.

That is what drives us as a community.

Heal the world.

Make this world a better place than the way we find it today.

And that is our intention with our neighbors, with this ground, with this land, and with this school.

I'm hearing concerns from neighbors about water levels and protection and well levels.

Your concerns about those details are our concerns.

This is not something we are looking to hoodwink or overlook or misrepresent.

That is something we want to address.

with our neighbors, for our neighbors, it's something we respect and fully intend to work with.

The conservation, obviously the nature out there, it sounds like the key point is traffic.

And frankly, between the gravel trucks, the logging trucks, the 16 foot width of the road, and the difficult corner at Old Lynchburg Road and Dudley Mountain, it sounds like with or without Forest School, there is already a traffic concern on this road.

So my thought is,

Let's work together.

You can have instead of a development with 12 additional homes or a vineyard, as was suggested, let's work together.

Let's get more advocates, families with young kids in car seats who want to ensure that this is a safe option.

Let's get loud.

Let's address the traffic concerns.

Let's work together.

Let's work with VDOT.

Let's get these logging trucks off the road.

Let's get these travel trucks off the road.

Let's address this corner.

I think working together, this is something that we can do.

I want to reiterate, my name is Stacy Derby.

If neighbors want to reach out as a member of the board at CBI, please feel free to reach out to us.

I'm happy to engage personally by phone and otherwise.

Raise your hand.

All we need.

Hi, my name is TC Lowe.

I live at 2121 Dudley Mountain Road.

Something that no one's really brought up is if you drive up and down our road and you look at what's in front of people's mailboxes and yards, you see giant yellow signs that say no school on Dudley Mountain.

Roughly 80 to 95% of the houses have this.

And I'm sorry, I think the people who live on the roads, opinions should matter more than people who are bringing their kids to school on the road.

That's all I have to say.

Thanks.

Hi, I'm Michelin Hall.

My name is Timothy Wooster.

I also live on Dudley Mountain Road.

My biggest concern is that we are looking at all these statistics based off of a phase one of development.

But if I understand correctly, the special use permit is to cover various phases of development.

Hosting special events, whether during the week or on the weekends, that's a big concern.

And that's all I have to say.

Teresa Andrews.

I live at 1764 Dudley Mountain Road.

And what has been brought up is not just traffic, but safety issues.

And with the weather tonight, in 1987, I was starting my job, had my child in my car.

As I was driving from my residence up the road in rain that was coming down, suddenly the road was covered with water.

I was unable to turn around, so I thought it would be a good idea, which it was not, to drive through.

Luckily, I had a neighbor that was coming the other direction that saw me and my child in the car that was stalled in the water.

I can show you a picture from this past fall, I know the date, again, of water coming across that road in various places.

I'm sure we've been there since

since about 1983 and there's been numerous times that suddenly the weather like today you get water coming across that road that is deep.

Thank you.

Hello, my name is Sophie Allen and I live at 1700 East Market Street.

I'm also the Director of Operations at CBI Forest School.

And I just want to jump up and address two areas that I've heard tonight of concern.

One is what do we do when there's severe weather?

Part of my job is actually looking at the weather and looking at what county schools are deciding when it comes to snow and flooding.

Ice, any conditions that would make the roads unsafe.

And we follow county schools.

So there's no situation where we're putting our teachers, our families, or our kids on these roads when it's not safe.

I also want to bring up some of the road data because I feel like something that has not been brought up is that we have many teachers that are also parents at our school.

So some of the numbers that we're seeing when it says staff,

Some of those children are riding in those cars, as well as siblings.

And I'm not sure if there's a way for us to investigate that further, but I also think that that changes the numbers we're looking at with cars.

It's unrealistic to say that all of our students are riding in one car and that that's how many trips are happening.

And I'm happy to look into data for that.

Thanks.

You can go next.

My name is Phillip Halsalt.

I live at 1831 Old Lynchburg Road.

I live south of, about two miles south of where Dudley Mountain Road turns where the school is projected.

One of the things, we talk about traffic and Dudley Mountain Road and that area right there, but my concern is leaving

the Woods to come into town.

We've got Southwood and staff can give you the numbers.

I think we got a lot more cars coming out of there shortly to come.

Cavalier Crossing is looking for another 165 units to develop.

And that's all before you even get across the street from the county buildings down here on Old Lynchburg Road.

The police are out there every morning to let everybody come into Covenant School.

Stopping traffic, has police to have any insight to this operation.

It's really hard to get to town from the south end of town.

And we've all seen what happened to 29 North.

We don't want 29 North coming down Fish Street.

Thank you.

Hello, my name is Chris Hines.

Our family lives at 4150 Lofton Lane, which is right off Dudley Mountain Road.

One of the criteria for approving a special use permit seems to be harmony.

Harmony with the environment.

I've heard zero Dudley Mountain residents who want the school placed here.

Zero.

Is that true?

Yeah.

So that doesn't seem to fit the test of harmony.

For the person K2J2, please unmute and state your name and your location and you'll have three minutes to speak once you start talking.

Okay, can you hear me?

My name is Kent Susschel.

I live in the Rowlett District.

I've been a resident of Albemarle County for 48 years, continuously.

About 30 years ago, I moved from 29 North because of the developments there to the Delor area.

Several years ago, I have addressed this commission several times concerning developments in the area of Route Road and John Warner Parkway.

Delora HOA, as well as others, presented data concerning the traffic over our road.

We presented accident rates as supplied by VDOT, the number of projected vehicles that new developments would have, impact on schools, etc.

Much of that data did not change your opinions about new developments.

If I recall, the vote on the recommendations to approve some of these new developments had at least two no votes because of lack of improvements of the infrastructure.

Zoning from owner's right to multi-housing allowed the development of 328 units at Route Point, which is being built now.

That's approximately over 1,000 additional vehicles on a two-lane road, namely Route Road.

which is curvy, steep slopes and already has a lot of traffic going because of all the developments along Ryle Road.

The approval of 999 Ryle Road has a few hundred more cars on dangerous intersection of Ryle Road and Belvedere Boulevard.

And some of this would be supposedly improvements by VDOT.

But that does not include the over the 500 houses units now being built in Belvedere.

To say the least, my life when I moved into my current house was a nice rural area.

It has really impacted the way I drive.

My point is very simple.

At least be consistent in your recommendations and do as you have done in the past.

recognize that traffic will increase.

But overall, the CBS school is a good fit for the county and for that area, unless you want venues and all the businesses to take the land.

It will prevent others from developing this one track of land, which will happen eventually.

I urge you to recommend approval of the special use permit.

Thank you.

My name is Colette Hines.

I live in 4150 Lofton Lane off of Dudley Road.

We're new to this area, and we specifically bought because it was quiet.

We came from the Rio Road area.

But one thing that wasn't mentioned tonight was inexperienced drivers.

There's teenagers.

I have two of them.

One is driving now, and it took him a good three, four months to get used to the side roads.

and I have a new driver coming up.

He's almost 16 and he's going to be starting to drive on these roads.

And I think it's worth mentioning that that does factor in as far as safety.

Hi, my name is Charlotte Crystal.

I am president of Congregation Beth Israel.

I just want to point out that there's one synagogue in Charlottesville, that's Congregation Beth Israel.

We have one school, that's the Forest School, which is also open to children of any denomination.

Thank you.

Is there anyone else who would like to speak tonight?

My name is Angela Daniel.

I'm a member of CBI.

I think there's one thing that we can all agree on tonight.

We need our government to work on providing us with safe roads.

That's been the primary argument that I've heard.

But if our government could provide more safe roads, maybe a lot of this would not be an issue.

So that's what I ask.

Please look at improving the road conditions.

Even if you don't build a school here, there are still too many road problems endangering people's lives.

And we need to step up as a community and resolve these issues instead of just saying, well, if it's a road problem, tough luck.

That's what I ask.

Please try to work on improving roads for everybody so we can grow more properly.

Hi, my name is Kelsey Koeger and I'm a fourth school parent.

I did want to encourage everybody who came from the Dudley Mountain Road area to consider.

I hear your concerns about cyclists.

I hear your concerns about young drivers.

I hear your concerns about lack of clearance on the road.

I would ask you to consider how those problems will be

made better if there's a vineyard on the property.

If there are drunk people driving at eight o'clock at night in the dark, a vineyard is allowable by right if the school doesn't take this property.

Condos are allowed by right if you have concerns about the water table.

I would encourage you to consider how those, what the impact on that would be.

We are looking at this problem through a very, very, very narrow aperture.

Development will happen on that property and as people think about what they want the next 10 years on that road to look like, I want them to spend some time considering who would be a better neighbor.

I think it's probably us.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Diane John.

I live at 2545 Old Lynchburg Road.

I want to point out that there is a winery right down the road from me.

We hardly see traffic from this winery.

There is also a KOA campground right around the corner.

And then there might be this.

There's polo grounds.

And then right up the road, there may be a field, not a field school, a living earth camp, which will also have 500 people on the road.

and we're in a rural area.

We moved to a rural area and we wanted to stay rural.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

I just want to close tonight by restating our purpose.

As an educator, my goal is to create living ecosystems that teach children how to become resilient, compassionate, and curious citizens.

Outdoor exploration represents pure childhood.

Land use for educational purposes is the best way I know to protect our future.

I believe that together, that includes CBI and the Dudley Mountain residents, we can begin to pave the way for innovative childcare solutions.

I believe that together we can continue to prioritize environmental education for children and families.

And I know that together we can overcome any obstacles, including traffic,

so that we can ensure that the Jewish community will continue to thrive in our county.

Thank you for working with us to think thoughtfully about the future of our youngest constituents of Albemarle County.

Thank you.

We're closing public comments.

And I'm going to place the Planning Commission in recess until 8.10, seven minutes.

Can you everybody sit down, please?

We're calling, it's 810, actually it's past 810 now.

811 and we're calling the Planning Commission back to order.

Mr. Chairman, I have a question for staff.

Could you all talk more about the buy-write uses and what could come and maybe

anticipated traffic there.

Yeah, there's a, in our ordinance in Chapter 10, there's a list of buy-write uses that the applicant may pursue.

I don't have that list right in front of me.

Sure.

So if you went to page nine of the applicant's narrative and it goes through and it talks about, you know, daycare center, church, detached dwelling, wine tasting room, brewery tap room, particularly the brewery tap room.

That's when it kind of stands out to me.

Well, these are all theoretical in nature, but agricultural use is permitted by right.

So these breweries and wine tasting may be permitted by right.

As far as getting into the weeds of the number of attendees or how big they are, there are supplemental regulations that trigger different needs from the county.

So it may trigger zoning clearance or other needs.

Yeah, so in many ways, this reminds me a lot of my own neighborhood in Sugar Hollow.

We have a narrow country road.

We have a lot of traffic of people, particularly coming for recreation.

We have a lot of cyclists, a lot of runners.

And we also have a camp, Girl Scout camp down our road that also has a lot of traffic that comes to and from it.

and we navigate very carefully those situations with our community, with communication, with the Girl Scout camp.

We've managed to achieve a delicate balance.

We have a very large conservation easement that covers many miles on a road that's limited development on our road, which is really saving grace for our community.

But then also just the communication with the Girl Scout camp who, when there are problems, they step in and they explicitly tell people, hey, listen, watch out for runners, watch out for cyclists, travel slowly on this road.

And it does have an impact, that kind of communication.

I think there's a lot of opportunities here of the community working with neighbors to make this road and this place better.

As I feel in many ways, Sugar Hollow has worked together to make it better.

At the same time, the difference between when we look at my neighborhood or we look at Reservoir Road, those are dead-end roads.

Reservoir Road and mine, they end at a reservoir, right?

It's not a cut through and the cut through is a big problem.

So the other things that occur to me too that weren't really mentioned, I think biodiversity in this area is a very important issue.

There's actually, maybe people don't know, there's a G1 habitat in this area.

The state classifies a G1 habitat as a habitat with less than 20 occurrences in the world.

So there's some very important natural resources in this area.

So it is good to have someone there who cares about natural resources.

That said, if you look at the number of properties that are along that road that are not under easement, that could be developed by right right now,

whatever happens with the school, you will end up in the same spot.

You'll have the equivalent of a school on your road very soon, just from the by right development if something's not done.

But this also illustrates a lot of the things I've been saying a long time ago about our rural roads and rural infrastructure and the need to address issues of people who cycle and run and walk in a rural areas need to protect those uses.

And I think this is just a case in point.

If we were to just with a buy right density, this is already a problem.

I'll share right now with my colleagues what I'm really grappling with is the buy right potential and the request and right now I just want to say I thank the applicant for their proposal is very well laid out and for the public for sharing this a variety of perspectives take the road out of the picture I really like the project right take the road out of it I think it's a nice proposal I think it would

Care for the land, respect the land, be considerate of neighbors.

But the part that I keep coming back to right now and certainly would love to engage in further discussion is that, you know, I take the staff's recommendations very seriously, particularly around vehicular safety.

There's nothing more important to me than getting our babies to school safely.

I have two of them, so I get it.

We've heard so much about the condition of the road from the people that travel on it daily, ranging from the cut through traffic that you're talking about to weather conditions when it snows, right?

And I think that will continue to increase.

Seems that the road infrastructure is just not suitable, right?

But again, I'll keep coming back to what can we do by right?

If you did nothing today, we can just come in there.

It doesn't have to come before us.

And what would those impacts be versus the application that we have here and you know what you're getting.

So I'm looking forward to more conversation.

That's kind of where I'm at right now.

I never thought that even at this moment that I'd have this sort of unfortunate dilemma.

Because I too, like my colleagues, have heard the conversation and know the area.

We can all do our Pauline bit about how long we've been someplace and what our experiences and what our titles are.

We can all do that.

All of us have a bit of Paul in us.

But what I would also sort of try to figure out is how do you bring weight to a conversation to change an outcome?

and that's what I'm trying to, I'm trying to figure that out right now and where my head is.

Because as it is right now, some of the things that we've heard about the impact on, let me sort of step back.

We all are aware that the county does not manage this road.

So just looking for heads shaking.

This is not like the city.

The city controls its roads, but in Albemarle County, when it's a public road, the Virginia Department of Transportation does that.

And so the piece on here is how do we get any kind of leverage for the people who live there for this particular project?

How do we get leverage to sort of bring attention to this road?

And I'm afraid I can't speak of old Lynchburg because that's not necessarily how things work when you talk to VDOT, but this particular road could be something that could be looked at.

But then I sort of have to deal with the reality that

Given some of the restrictions and pullbacks on federal funds, which tend to fund a number of our road projects through the state, what is going to happen in these sort of secondary roads?

And this is classified by VDOT as a secondary road.

And again, as my colleague said, and as I sort of lifted up at the beginning of this, what would happen if an agricultural use sort of stepped in here, which it could do?

And I'll have some questions about what do we really know about the conservation easement on this piece of property?

Is it settled?

Is it signed?

Has it been delivered?

Because if it hasn't, then that sort of pushes me in one direction.

But if it has, then that sort of solves a bunch of things there.

So I'll be looking for some comment from staff on that piece of it.

So right now I'm in that place where I really want to say yes.

But I feel as if I should say no, because I don't know how this road's going to be improved under the present federal administration that is quickly pulling back any dollars that could possibly be distributed to counties, to states and the counties that we need.

And so I am,

I'm still wrestling with this whole thing.

I'm listening to what we say because for me it really is about, is there a reasonable way that the present set of individuals and the hoped for set of individuals can come there and improve the status of that road?

so that they can live and drive and enjoy that piece of property in a way that has a common community to it.

I believe there is, but I'm trying to figure out how there would be some way to sort of lift it over, lift it to the people who live there so that they could feel as if it was gonna be a win for them.

And that's the piece that I'm wrestling with here.

Of course I'll have to vote, but right now I'm listening

to our conversation and trying to sort of come out of this middle space that is full of ambiguity and full of sort of like, well, I know the world that we're living in right now, and where's the money coming from?

And where's the leverage going to come from to be able to do something to get people's attention?

In this role that I've been in for a couple of years now, I think about, you know, what is the public interest?

And by that, I mean, what do people need?

What are people's needs?

And in the county, we have a very strong need for quality childcare, for quality early learning.

We have a very strong need for every child to have a daily experience of care, expression of care.

And we also have a strong need for good water quality and water for everybody.

And one of the good parts of this is that it uses less water from the wells than what four houses would, more comparable.

We also have a strong need to be physically safe.

I mean, that's kind of crucial, right?

And there's a need for better designed roads across the country and across the county.

You know, we've got crashes and injuries and casualties from really bad design, not just bad drivers.

And I think a lot of these sort of legacy roads that we've got fit that bill, particularly in some of the rural areas where the road went where it went, because that's where people went.

And it wasn't really designed for safety per se.

But that said, generally speaking, I do support building the things we want in our community, what we want our community to include and have for people's needs and services.

And then improving our infrastructure and services to support those things that we care about is generally the way I go.

This one is hard.

I do wish there was an easy third path here where we could say like, yes, and let's fix the road.

But we're not in charge of that, as my colleague to my right just said.

Those comments do resonate with me.

I'm kind of like that, hell yeah, pragmatic.

Let's just get some quick creak, make it happen.

But you know, that's not really the...

The path that we actually have in front of us And also I think what my colleague said what's hard for me to be okay with is kind of the Inconsistencies of our own rural areas zoning on this, you know by right we could build a church There could be 200 people show up every Sunday morning There could be 200 people show up every Wednesday night for fish fries or well, it's Friday nights The 200 people show up Wednesday night for whatever else and that's by right

By right, we could build a winery, we could build a brewery, someone could, not me and you, but someone could.

And we could have hundreds of people show up and get tipsy every weekend, and that would be by right.

And so it's difficult for me to sort of just look at this and say, oh, by right, kids don't matter as much as those things.

I realize that that's just how policy works sometimes, but it's a hard one to grapple with.

Yeah, there's definitely a lot to consider.

One of the things that raises it in my mind is our process that we're in now with the AC44.

Not that long ago, we talked about our rural roads and Commissioner Murray has been raising this for quite a while.

And we talk about infrastructure.

We can probably all talk

about here for quite a while about all the roads very similar to Dudley Mountain Road that we either live in or live nearby or drive through every day.

And it has these conflicts with pedestrians, with bicyclists, with cars, and I appreciate, I think, Murray, you brought up through traffic.

So I live right off of Drybridge Road.

It's got significant true traffic between 250 and 64 or Dick Woods Road, which has an exit from 64.

And so we see very large trucks in a road that is very, very challenged, not only topographically, but also the width of that road, no shoulders.

So it is an issue that the county needs to address.

Now we need to begin to tackle it with AC44 and how we bring infrastructure.

It's fine to say we're going to improve infrastructure, but the action plans on how we do that and then measurable outcomes on how we're actually achieving that.

I think it's an important, important step.

And yes, we, I know that a lot of times we focus on the development areas, but the rural areas are equally important.

And, and, you know, this is an example of where,

We have a very good development, a very good opportunity to provide a need in our community and we're limited.

So it is definitely a challenge for me because they're both real issues.

So it's not like we're, you know, if we're in favor of one is not that we are not acknowledging the other one.

I think we're acknowledging both.

but there is some, there is a conflict, but there's a conflict on this road now.

There's a conflict on a lot of our roads and the conversation on how we can improve it, how, whether there's traffic calming opportunities, whether there are some mitigations in some of the worst areas in that road that can take place.

and I think this can happen through communications.

As you were saying, Commissioner Murray, I've been in your road many times.

I've been into the reservoir.

I participated in those activities which we love here in the open air and whether it's fishing, biking, I've done all of that up in the reservoir and there's a lot of people in that road.

There's no doubt, particularly on the weekends.

Staff, could you please respond to the question about what is the status of the conservation easements or the land and easement in that particular area?

So it does not exist today.

And it's not, from what I looked at,

So just on more clarity on that as well, from what I understand and from our discussion, the conservation easement as proposed only addresses the development rights, not the ability to divide the property in 21-acre lots, although that would be somewhat limited by the topography with the critical slopes and whatnot.

It would be also interesting to be interesting to know whether what are the conditions come with the conservation easement?

Does it, for example, require that the land be forested as some conservation easements do?

Or is it an open space easement?

A lot of the open space easements are

They put no restrictions on agricultural uses and you can clear the land from front to back, including stream buffers.

So knowing what kind of easement it is, it would be interesting.

May I provide additional information?

If the commission is interested in recommending approval, staff have drafted some recommended conditions on the screen and so we've conditioned the development only being in general in court with the conceptual plan and the following major elements are location of the proposed buildings, location of proposed parking areas, limits of disturbance, and maximum building footprint.

So with or without a conservation easement, staff are conditioning where the applicant may develop

on this property for this special use permit.

Before you do that, I just want to say one more thing about this too is I feel

I would feel a lot better about this proposal if there had been some more community meetings.

I know there's the one mandated community meeting, but it seems like there could have been more done to get better consensus with the neighbors.

There was a slide, I couldn't remember if it was staff's presentation or applicant's presentation, but it talked about the number of students and maybe, you know, somebody has said unique families, right?

Like this concept of unique families contributing to the 144 max student limit, as well as some teachers have students that attend.

Is there any way to get a feel for the existing conditions, right?

Like we have 60 students in school right now

40 unique families, right?

There's something, I guess a purview of the chair, if the applicant had that, if you thought that'd be valuable.

I have 63 families.

How many are teachers?

Are they here?

A lot.

I think like eight.

Eight to ten.

Five.

Five total?

I counted more.

Okay, but we'll say five.

Five to six.

So it is a community school.

And when we were running out of Camp Holloway trails, we were carpooling.

We really made an effort to carpool because we knew that was a difficult road.

Yep.

So the first one right here, I just mentioned it.

So this is just the development must be in general accord with the conceptual plan that they've provided.

And then those are the first elements that we deem that are essential.

The next couple for the conceptual plan include the maximum building footprint, establishment of a 50-foot side building setback.

That's consistent with what we provide or require for general commercial districts in the development area.

And then additional screening must be provided along the property's boundary lines.

The second condition is for the maximum enrollment requested by the applicant.

The third is related to the hours of operation.

Condition number four is related to this morning drop-off time.

Condition five is to restrict the building heights.

Conditions number six and seven are related to improving the frontage of the subject property to current VDOT standards and to dedicate the 50-foot right-of-way on both sides of Dudley Mountain Road.

And lastly, condition number eight is to establish and maintain the stream buffers on the site.

You know, to colleagues.

So we know, and the community that's here with us tonight, so to be very clear about what's going to happen when we vote.

When we vote, we're not saying yes or no for the complete package.

We're saying yes and no how it applies to these issues here.

And then the next step is to go to our supervisors.

And so I assume all of you will be at that meeting when it comes to that.

And so I, for one, need to say that I want the record to be very clear for me that I support this proposal, but I'm going to vote no because of the traffic.

and so I want my supervisors to sort of wrestle with that because I think as we've said, we're limiting the response of our community because of the state of our infrastructure.

And when we talk about the kind of community we want Albemarle to be, if we're going to put governors on that because of the state of our infrastructure, that's something that I think we need to wrestle with as a whole, okay?

Because

and I would also recommend that when you go to the next that you really nail down your involvement with your neighbors and you nail down your population so that the supervisors don't have to wrestle about how many families are coming to this piece of property so that you're as explicit as you are about traffic.

explicit as you can possibly be about traffic.

Because that's where, those are the individuals who need to feel very comfortable, whatever decision they make.

But I think for similar reasons, that infrastructure is needed.

We have these sort of guardrails imposed on us by infrastructure that's under-invested.

And I actually am going to vote yes is a way of saying we need to work on that.

So let's have the thing that actually matters for the great need for childcare that's sort of under threat if they lose their current space.

And let's make sure we invest in making that road good enough to get families there, to get 60 some families there.

Whether or not VDOT will ever do that, I don't know.

I'm going to say that I'm with Julian on this one.

I want to vote yes on this.

I think this is a great project.

I wish there's more community engagement prior to this coming to us.

I wish the roads were a lot better, not just for the cars, but also for the cyclists and people who walk on that road.

I wish there was a plan that accommodated the people that are on that road.

I'll go ahead and follow in line with that.

I think the thing that has kind of taken me to the edge is that we've heard so much testimony about the condition of the road and the near misses and the types of traffic

and God forbid something happened.

This moved forward and there was a crash and a couple of children passed away.

Folks would say, I told you so, right?

So that doesn't really fix the root cause, what we're talking about, right?

Cause that could happen with any use.

But I think just in light of what's before me today,

That's kind of where I'm landing.

It's the infrastructure.

It's not the project itself.

I love the project.

I love the project.

I'm not sure where else you would put it, right?

That's the thing.

It makes it almost like what are we ever going to do anywhere in the rural area?

You know, there is something you said what our colleague is saying, what Nathan is saying about how do you, you know,

The piece for us, we've got a hard, conscious decision.

But we don't have the legislative decision, right?

And we do know that our supervisors read and listen to the stuff that we say.

I mean, they do, or at least I'm told they do.

No, seriously, I'm told that they do, because it gets repeated back.

That's how I know.

And so, again, I mean, I want to say, I think this should be a yes.

I think this should be a doggone straight out, no issue, a yes.

I just also know, unlike some of the other roads, you know, I'm sorry that the Marietta people cut through there.

You know, that's unconscionable.

They shouldn't be doing that.

I'm sorry that people drive with reckless abandon on country roads.

That's been going on.

There's a number of songs that have been written about people losing their lives on country roads.

That's not making it, but it's just something that's been in our system for years.

and I don't know when we're told by and whether or not I believe some of the industry traffic studies, whether or not I think they're real numbers or not real numbers, I have to go what's before me.

And I wish I did not see something that was five and a half times greater than what's on the road now.

I think that's part of the struggle that I'm having

I mean, to get to that number, it's not quite every child in one car, but it's like 1.2 children in one car.

So it's, I mean, I was doing some of the math on it.

And so it's not quite actually one for five would take, take the number below 500.

But in any case, I'm ready to make a motion, please chair.

I move to recommend approval of SP2024-23 Congregational Beth Israel for her school Dudley with the condition provided by staff.

Discussion?

Or is there a second?

I'll second.

Discussion?

So just hope we're not done here.

So it's still in planning commission still in still in session.

So just so everyone knows, this goes to the Board of Supervisors.

Obviously, they hear all the conversations.

They hear what was said by the public.

That's why we need you to speak in the microphone because it's all recorded and it's, you know, minutes are created.

Board of Supervisors either listen to this live or they read it and they'll have this information and obviously there'll be schedule.

I'm not sure when it is on the schedule, if we have that scheduled staff, but

We'll work with the applicant to schedule it.

But there'll be a schedule, there'll be obviously notifications that go out.

Look at that.

Not the few.

Not the few.

You don't?

I do.

So I was at a Places 29 hydraulic community advisory committee meeting yesterday.

and I heard something that if there's ever an opportunity for the Board of Supervisors and the Planning Commission to sit together before the end of AC44 and hear a demographic trends in the Albemarle region, the Charlottesville-Albemarle region during the 2020s and beyond,

That would be something that I think the group would appreciate because I had the opportunity, we had the opportunity at the CAC to hear a guy by the name of Hamilton Lombard who is a demographer at the Weldon Cooper Center and the information that he shared with the CAC

was helpful in just sort of trying to unpack and to lay out in a non-partisan manner sort of what our community looks like and who are the types of people who are driving our economy and who are driving and driving the people who live here.

You'd be surprised that we look more like Jackson, Wyoming and Vail and Park City than we do some other places that people like to call us to.

and so that you know some of us have felt that that's what we look like for years and so you know it was nice to have someone that I don't know sort of reinforce that for me and I just think that as we're thinking about the ending of AC4 when it comes back to both of us that it would be helpful to have that pause and to hear about what the community looks like as far as our demographics are concerned I think people would people would go like oh okay okay so that that's my that's my thing

That would be helpful.

I'm sorry.

The question Bivins, who gave that presentation?

The gentleman's name was Hamilton Lombard from the Weldon Cooper Center.

Demographer.

State demographer.

And that can be very heavy, but he actually had a very nice presentation and a very nice way about him.

I'm not saying anything.

I was just laying it out there.

Well, I will say getting more education about our community would be helpful as I am constantly surprised where I work.

how people that even have been here for a long time, they don't quite understand the challenges that we grapple with.

The one thing that's probably not in this demographic study, but we're very unique from the standpoint, we have a major medical academic center in a town of 50,000, in a county of 120,000.

You don't see that around the country.

So that's great, but it's also very constrained in terms of traffic and access.

What you do see is having superb medical care in high income places.

Yeah.

Okay.

Did you have a, okay.

Yes, sir.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

So May 7, the board covered several issues.

First of all, they adopted the county budget at that meeting.

They also received a presentation from our transportation staff on the safety Blue Ridge action plan.

The project's been funded by the federal government for study intersection safety and other safety issues within the planning district.

The staff brought to the board recommendations for that study for Albemarle County.

And we're hoping, I think, the second meeting in June to come talk to you all a little bit about transportation stuff.

So we'll be bringing that to you all at that meeting.

They also received a presentation and discussion on the AC44 housing chapter, which you all reviewed.

They held two public hearings.

The first was the Crozet Independence Day celebration, which was recommended for approval.

And the last one, if you recall on Pantops, Flo was seeking to rezone some of the critical slopes around the rear of their site.

And that was also considered and passed by the board.

With respect to new business, I think one of the things I mentioned to you at the last meeting, we had an item that was on the June 10th meeting that I just pulled off.

And so I have an open space.

I reached out to Stacy, Dr. Stacy Apathia.

She's going to be coming and providing you all a report on housing.

Okay, thank you.

Old business?

No follow-ups?

is adjourned until May 27, 2025 at 4 p.m.