Planning Commission Work Session (CANCELED 4:00 pm, MOVED TO 2/11/25) and Regular Meeting (6:00 pm)   1/28/2025

I probably should call this meeting to order and ask for the role to establish a quorum.

Mr. Carrazana.

Here.

Mr. Missel.

Here.

Mr. Clayborne.

Here.

Mr. Murray.

Here.

Mr. Bivins.

Here.

Mr. Moore.

Here.

Thank you.

And we'll begin with ZMA 2023-5, Berkmar Flats, and ask for the staff report.

And I'm happy to answer any questions.

Commissioner Bivins, Commissioner Moore.

Bivins people down here, guys at the end over here, the guys over here, Dan, we always got us a couple of questions.

You might, I don't understand, I might later.

Non-Julian and I.

So you might want to just have that number in there because there's one supervisor who knows a lot about center too.

No, dude, thank you for that.

Did that have any requirements for interconnectivity to Woodburn?

And then additionally, while we're on that topic, Woodbrook Apartments has been approved by the board and there's site plans that are under review and they're proposing for an internal private travel way as well.

What's the name of that development?

Okay.

And did that have any requirements for interconnections?

And so therefore, a pedestrian and a vehicular interconnection is not possible at that location.

Good, thank you.

If not a warrant, I think the service authority was not excited about it being moved either.

Is that on the concept plan?

It's basically where the mini-force seating area label is, and we can clean that up if you request for that.

Can you just trace it with your cursor?

Yeah, it runs along the property line.

It runs along where it says five foot side building setback.

Yes.

And so they're grading and they're building buildings very close to that.

So you'd have to like really grade down to it.

But the pipeline is higher.

I understand that the service authority was not very excited about moving the water line either.

And they've noted to both myself and the applicant that this connection isn't possible without the stuff that Michael Barnes noted.

Okay.

So at the time of the Burkmore Flats, there was no requirement for that development to connect to Woodburn Road.

I was not a planner at the time, so I'm not sure what the circumstances were with that rezoning.

I think you find staff at this point wishing that we had made that a full access.

but all the rest of them.

Thank you.

So is there any opportunity for the Sweet Street to be a pedestrian connection, like put some stairs there or something?

I think the applicant can provide additional information with that as well.

With that, I'll open the public hearing and ask for the applicant's presentation.

Thank you all so much for your time.

Mr. Moore?

I guess how do we avoid having another Sweet Street situation where it can't do that?

And so we don't have that working against us in that location.

I was wondering too, if you go back to the walkability plan, the new one, just curious approximately how many parking spaces will be in sort of the off woodburn section versus off of Berkman section.

That we had kind of allocated it for, so the single family attached townhomes will have driveways, then there will be parking spaces for approximately 18 dwelling units, and then the off of Berkmar about 22 units will be served from parking on that side.

That's my questions for the moment.

Officer Commissioner Bivins.

Thank you, Chair.

given that staff has sort of read my particular uncomfortableness with this by not having an alternate way to get off this piece of property.

We're really at any one entrance, not at a greater impact than we are than the by-rate scenario.

Okay.

They come up, you get to see them, and then you go back down so that you can put a connecting road to the south.

On to Sweet Street?

Yeah, on Sweet Street.

It's the main water supply from the reservoir, and so that's... You wouldn't open that up.

Oh, you can't open that up?

No, you'd want that to be protected from the animal pinball or whatever else.

Well, I'm glad I've got lots of technical experts here because, you know, I'm the artist here and I'm thinking about, you know, I'm thinking about all these places that I see daylighted pipes.

Thank you very much.

Mr. Bivins, anything else?

Mr. Murray?

And so I was wondering, do you have the parking you need or do you feel like you have more parking than you need in this design?

And I think we got a comment to remove those at some point, but that is the parking that we need in this particular location.

because I'm all for reducing parking requirements.

I think in this location, we're already a little short and since we don't have a lot of street parking, we're gonna probably stick with the minimum.

What's the closest distance to a transit stop?

There is a transit stop right here.

Then also, why is the one connection proposed private and not a public easement?

That's because the Victorian Heights connection, I have their plan somewhere in here, their connection is also a private access easement.

Where's the adaptability of these buildings to be able to accommodate, let's say, commercial on a lower floor or something that might serve residents there, like a coffee shop or a bookstore, something that would serve that local community?

So, you know, converting the specific unit is difficult, but maintaining control of that whole parcel as a rental product doesn't preclude that opportunity from future redevelopment.

Some to think about.

I mean, like there's like commercial like right there, just not on the watch.

So I mean, I think.

Weber.

How you tried to rectify that and just the differences there.

So from, you know, life safety standpoint, this design checks the boxes.

So are you building that out with the project to connect to Victorian heights?

It's a reservation for future connection.

So the other projects under construction now, right?

This is the reservation, these two lines.

and to be clear, there's a parcel in between the two developments.

Right, thank you for that.

Let's just want to underline that.

Yeah.

There's a parcel in between the two?

This parcel.

Oh, I thought that was part of Victoria Knight.

If there was a common boundary between the two, I think we'd be trying to make that connection today.

Yeah, I thought that was part of it.

Yeah, sorry that that wasn't clear.

Thanks.

Mr. Farah?

Maybe I haven't designed it yet, but I'm assuming it's going to be a wet pond if it's going to be a site amenity versus a hole in the ground.

Yeah, Justin, do you

But I don't know if you've gotten to that detail yet, Mr. Schimp.

But you could not make it a true wet pond because you simply don't have enough watershed area to sustain it.

because you would have been having to buy water quality credits somewhere else if you were only doing underground storage tank detention.

Some of the ground does have it, but yes, in general, you're more likely to have water quality treatment with an above ground.

It seems to me like by bringing it above ground and using vegetation on the surface, you're getting better water quality treatment and mitigation than you would have with an underground tank system.

But essentially, yes, there are multiple methods of above ground attention that you get a credit for removal because of vegetation, the things you said, yes.

It seemed like maybe they would frolic in the pollinator patch and the people could have a little more area of open space.

So that's conceptual.

But thanks.

That's actually further to the south or to the east or to the wine.

That that's a low point on our side.

So they're offset sufficiently, basically.

And if there's a significant grade difference there and a pipe, I'm sure you've looked at whether those are too close to that pipe, if it truly is parallel with that property line.

That's, and uncovering the pipe is the issue.

They'll let you pave over top of it?

They will let you put pavement over top.

Not going anywhere.

That's that's the issue with the pedestrian connection to the south.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Madam clerk, I didn't see anybody on the sign up list.

Pardon me.

Sorry.

Sorry.

That's okay.

Well, we can just call it.

Thank you.

Do you want me to start?

Yes, please.

I'm Stacy Tanner.

Thank you.

I'd like to see a better plan.

Please come up.

Thank you.

Is there anyone online?

No, sir.

So I'll give the applicant three minutes to come up if you'd like and make comments on any of the public comments you just heard.

People might have a date of that.

Our Fed's department is working on it now.

And the county will construct that?

Yeah.

Could you speak a little bit to that just between the two properties?

So there is additional requirements that are not necessarily shown here, but would be added at the site plan.

I would just add that the water line itself, I imagine that the Rivanna Service Authority is not going to want to have trees planted in their easement.

Yeah, that was actually what I was thinking you were going to say.

Because if someone hits that, it's many thousands of people without water, potentially.

That's why I was so surprised you could pave over top of it.

Yeah, well, if they have to maintain it, they'll rip our asphalt right up and go right through it.

This is the final site plan.

This is the approved plan.

One comment away.

Who would like to kick us off?

All in all, I think it's a good use of, you know, three and change acres to bring some housing to the development area.

Commissioner Rivet.

you can put concrete on it you can put asphalt and rocks on top of it but you can't dig it up and move it a little bit put a little you in it like you know or put a thing in it that doesn't make any sense to me in any event because I don't know if I'm listening because you all have more experience no I just don't know if it's gravity or or pressurized well it's it's pressurized I don't know the actual size of the pipe but

And you probably have to build like two pipes to move it once.

Yes, sir.

Or would they have to come back again?

I can look into that question a bit more and provide you a more accurate answer for what type of commercial would be allowed.

I'll just do it out there.

So with that, I'm willing to be supportive.

Christopher Carrazana.

But I am supportive of this proposal as well.

Mr. Farron.

But I am in support of this development and I appreciate the developer taking the time to listen to the commission and try to address our concerns as best they could.

Thanks.

for the reasons that we've discussed this evening.

It's a council might want.

For the reasons that we've discussed this evening, including good efficient use of the development area, as well as increased green space and enjoyability.

We have a motion.

Second.

Can we have the roll please?

Mr. Moore.

Hi.

Mr. Clayborne.

Hi.

Mr. Missel.

Hi.

Mr. Carrazana.

Hi.

Thank you.

I'll ask for the staff report.

And I'm happy to answer any questions from the commission.

Any questions?

In other words, VDOT is not assessing from the actual VDOT road all the way to the entrance because this entrance goes through a deeded easement, I believe, through several properties to get to the applicant's property.

As far as the driveway itself, fire rescue and our engineering and our transportation staff all assessed the driveway and had no concerns with it.

Well, the fire trucks feel like they could go down that driveway by the pond and get up and around.

According to their two reviews, yes.

Okay, thanks.

Mr. Claver?

They seem very precise, 650 square feet, 1560.

Yeah, so those were proposed by the applicant and they could probably provide more detail, but as far as I mentioned that setback, any building or outdoor run that's greater may conflict with the setback requirement that they were requesting.

Is that what you're referring to?

Okay.

What is that road like now?

I'm not sure what the rest of the conditions of the road are past the applicant's driveway.

I know what it was and this is different.

It was like the overnight stays.

Right, that place, right.

It's a doggy motel.

Do you know if there was any discussion with the applicant about putting something on the inside of the fencing to also help to mitigate

As far as the inside, if they provided more plantings or thought about that, we haven't had that type of discussion.

Because that's not one of the materials that's listed here.

And a wooden fence is not dense.

And so since Wooden is not a preferred thing on here, that's why I'm asking whether or not there was any discussion about that.

But that gives an example of something you would use to ameliorate the impact.

The other thing that I had a small question about, are you going to speak separately about the exception?

I spoke about it in my presentation, but I'm happy to expand on it some more.

And so I'm putting, saying it, I guess for our supervisors, that I would have a hard time saying yes to the setback when there's nothing there to compare it to.

You can make a recommendation to the board, but we won't be deciding anything.

I'm just making comment that I think we're sort of taking something away from somebody without them having to potentially without having something there.

But if the other property is large enough, they have plenty of room to put something on there that's suitably far away.

I saw other kinds of dents fencing and not wood and wanted to have some sense of what our, if wooden fences would be approved by the approving agents.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Have non-toxic plantings for the 12 dogs?

I mean, if they show a wood fence and plantings in front of it.

Commissioner Moore?

What happens?

Yeah.

They're not complying thus they the board would be the ones if they were to grant this special use permit to be able to revoke it but I've never in my time I've never heard that the board has ever really revoked any any special use permits but that's another side so that's not

May we ask you the question about fencing too while we have you?

I'd like to see what if they would propose something else at the time that they actually would before we would make that kind of determination.

Okay, I guess my question was are you biased towards things like concrete or brick or

Awesome.

Commissioner Moore, any other questions?

Anybody else?

Is there any analysis of like trips per day of the traffic generated by this or?

Now this wasn't requested by staff or any of the reviewers due to the low impact of this proposal for 12 dogs.

Thanks.

Hello.

Hello.

said, how do we open up the actual slideshow?

Perfect.

This is an overview of our area, our house 3225 is marked

and that is all we have and we want to thank you guys for listening.

It's so it will be surrounded by trees as well, but we will put extra vegetation in if that's what's required.

Don't go anywhere.

Okay.

Commissioner Moore.

That's all.

Okay.

We're talking about 12 dogs.

Yes.

How will you manage dogs taking dogs outside?

Well, not saying that all 12 spots will be full at one time and every day of the week, but we plan on just taking the mountain groups or four for 30 minute breaks during the day.

And could you give us, in your description, you talked about if an owner desired, she could have the dog walked on lead, so you could walk the dog around and they wouldn't have free run inside the 1600 square foot.

Part of the business plan was if a customer or client wanted to pay an additional fee to have their dog walked around our five-acre property for additional exercise, that would be available.

I mean, there's already areas to take them.

Thank you, Mr Murray.

So as you if you if you do have trails that hopefully you keep your trails outside of that stream buffer.

Yes, sir.

Because I mean, that can be a thing of getting bacterial contamination of the streams.

And again, all feces will be cleaned up and picked off the property and removed by service.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Commissioner Claver.

How did you get so precise?

This building is small enough to hold 12 four by six kennels and have a little washroom bathroom area and just a little small walk-in office for people to come in and drop their dogs off.

And I'm afraid for, you know, your long-term longevity of your business.

I don't understand what you're saying about everything being small and I was just trying to do that.

It's more of like a walk-in, drop the dog off and walk out of the area.

Like a cubicle is bigger.

It's labeled an office, but I would say it more is like

just keep everything separate.

It's just those are my observations.

So if you'll approve a bigger one, I'll go for it.

Yeah, Justin, do you get the

North is the top of the page there.

The top of the page.

Yeah.

Yes, sir.

Tell me where the trees are in here.

Where that yellow pin is.

There's a yellow pin where the proposed building.

Okay.

We can bring back up the survey that should have shown.

Thank you.

Mr. Firehock, any questions?

I don't know if you need four-wheel drive to get to your house or normally it's not so terrible.

engines that they have.

It's not in your interest to be obnoxious to your neighbors.

You can tell what's going on.

So they have way more restrictions on them than just anyone else living in the rural area who wants to put a bunch of dogs in a cage and make a ruckus.

As far as we are concerned, there are no restrictions on how many dogs someone can have.

Running on their land.

Running on their land and being kept outdoors.

Yeah, we have, we have kennels.

That are not in buildings.

Not, we don't want to make our neighbors mad either.

Now, in terms of dropping dogs off, somebody, somebody dropping the dog off, like on a Thursday, they're going on out of town trip and you're going to watch the dog till Sunday and then they're going to come pick it up, something like that.

Yes.

And so do you, is there any concern about, are you going to like limit when they can come and go or is there a drop off and pick up times?

in the evenings.

Okay, so it'll be a designated time.

Okay, thanks.

They are easements which are recorded in the count.

For the driveway.

I can't pick up my dog on Saturday, but I can come on Sunday.

from 9 a.m.

So if you get a copy too, it's just really, it helps people if they have page numbers.

Thank you.

You'll have a chance to come up after the public comment.

Awesome.

Thank you.

and I'm fully in favor of the approval of this project.

Emily White and Scott Cunningham is on deck.

Thank you.

Mr. Cunningham and Rachel Ham is on deck.

Bivins.

Sorry.

I've actually seen one.

Rachel Ham.

Thank you.

Is there anyone else here tonight who would like to speak to this?

Hi.

Good evening.

Thank you.

Yes, please come up.

Hi.

Thank you.

Anybody online, Madam Clerk?

Your time will start when you, when you start speaking, state your name and address and then you can start with your comments.

These are just larger concerns related to the issuing of the permit.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Is there anyone else?

Nope.

With that, I will give the applicant the opportunity to come up and speak to anything that's been raised.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Is there a way we can flip through it again just to show a larger?

No, we can click on the next slide.

I'd like to show the property that was saying there directly across from there.

Is this touchscreen?

I think it's a static image.

This one.

That's the only other one I have.

I just kind of want to give that some perspective.

It's approximately 2,550 feet away from our property.

We'll go over a quarter mile for driveway.

I'm not sure if we could just move closer to the mic.

Awesome.

I can.

Otherwise, it makes sense to have this available as an option.

Any other comments or discussion?