Planning Commission Regular Meeting   9/10/2024

Thank you, everyone.

I am calling to order the September 10th, hard to believe it's already almost the middle of September, meeting of the Albemarle County Planning Commission.

and I'll open by saying the opportunities for public to access and participate in the hybrid meeting are posted in the Albemarle County website on the Planning Commission homepage and on the Albemarle calendar.

Participation will include the opportunity to comment on those matters for which comments from the public will be received.

So with that, I will establish a quorum.

Yes.

Ms.

Firehawk.

Aye.

Awesome.

Full House.

With that, we'll move on to comments from the public on matters not listed on the agenda.

Are there any comments from the public on matters not listed on the agenda?

All right.

Not online either.

And Devin will not be one of those people.

I'll move on to the consent agenda.

Is there any interest in pulling the approval of the draft minutes from August 27th from the agenda?

Second.

Great.

Any discussion?

Yes.

Mr. Moore, Mr. Bivins, Mr. Murray, Mr. Clayborne, Mr. Missel, Mr. Carrazana, Ms.

Firehock.

Thank you.

We'll move on to item number four, items requesting deferral to a new date.

that is ZMA 2023-17 slash SP 2023-20, Chestnut Grove Manufactured Home Park Community.

I believe the applicant has requested deferral to a date specific of December 7th, sorry, 10th, 2024.

You hear a motion?

Motion to defer ZMA 202-30017

Ford Slash, SB 202300020, Chestnut Grove Manufactured Home Park Community, deferred to December 10th, 2024.

Any discussion?

All right.

Ms.

Firehawk.

Aye.

All right, we are rolling.

With that, we'll move on to the public hearings, and we'll begin with SP 2023-15, Knight Berkshire mixed use.

Great.

Good evening, everyone.

My name is Sid Schoff.

I'm a senior planner with the Planning Division of Albemarle County's Community Development Department.

Tonight, I'm giving staff's presentation for SP 2024 0015 Knight Berkshire mixed use.

This is a special use permit request to allow 15 multifamily residential dwelling units in the C1 commercial zoning district.

The subject property is approximately 1.05 acres and located north of the city of Charlottesville at 615 Woodbrook Drive.

It is owned C1 commercial and the comprehensive plan designates it as urban density residential.

The adjacent parcel to the Southwest is Agner-Hert Elementary School to the north or multi-family residential units and to the northeast and southeast, they're all zone C1 commercial.

Currently on the site is a one-story building that has a footprint of approximately 6,500 square feet.

The existing building is currently used as a dental office with a rental office space in the rear.

The first proposal is SP20240015, which is a special use permit to allow 15 multi-family residential dwelling units in the C-1 commercial district.

The other two proposals are two special exception requests that the Commission is not required to make a recommendation on.

However, the Commission can provide comments on the special exceptions, which will be included in the Transmittal Summary to the Board.

I'm happy to discuss the two special exceptions at the end of my presentation if the Commission is interested.

The first is a special exception request to reduce the 15 foot step back requirement to zero feet.

And the second is the request to allow disturbance in the required 20 foot use buffer.

Here's a proposed concept plan if the special use permit and the special exceptions were to be approved by the board.

The applicants proposing for an approximately 7,880 square foot footprint building that is four stories.

The first floor would be office slash commercial use while the top three floors would contain the 15 residential units.

The applicant is proposing for 37 shared parking spaces on the site, as well as a proposed stormwater facility.

Lastly, shown in red, there is a proposed future connection to Agner-Hurt Elementary School illustrated.

However, after discussions with Albemarle County public school staff, they've requested for this connection to be removed, since there will be a future connection to a future multi-family site two parcels north.

The special use permit application was reviewed under the factors for consideration as outlined in the zoning ordinance.

Staff believes that the proposed special use permit will not be detrimental to adjacent parcels, will not change the character of the nearby area, will continue to be in harmony with the C-1 commercial zoning district, and is consistent with the comprehensive plan.

There's one condition drafted for this application, and in some it requires a development to be in general accord with the provided conceptual plan.

Staff identify three essential elements, which includes the location of the building envelope, location of the parking areas, and then lastly, the building height.

In some, there are three positive aspects.

The first is that it's consistent with the review criteria for special use permits contained in the zoning ordinance.

The second is that the use is consistent with the Places 29 master plan.

and lastly, it provides an additional commercial use and residential units for people who live and work in the area.

There were no concerns from staff.

Staff recommends approval with the conditions as recommended in the staff report and to update the concept plan to remove the proposed future connection to Agner-Hertt Elementary School.

I'm happy to answer any questions from the Commission.

Great.

Thank you.

Just one question.

In terms of being accorded with the plan, I know that this is adding residential units to this otherwise commercial property.

That is correct.

This is not a rezoning.

This is a special use permit to allow 15 residential units on the site.

Yeah, so there are two special exception requests.

The first one is to reduce the 15 foot step back requirement to zero feet.

So section 18-4.20 requires for each story that begins above 40 feet in height, or for each story above the third story, whichever is less, the minimum step back shall be 15 feet.

And so the applicant's requesting for a four story building, which would require the 15 foot step back.

And so the applicant's requesting for it to be reduced to zero feet.

As far as the justification for it, the applicant can provide more detail on that.

The second special exception is to allow disturbance in the required 20-foot use buffer for commercial districts.

And they cited three reasons for that.

The first is allowing the existing entrance to remain.

The second is to allow for connection to an existing storm water pipe.

And third is for that future pedestrian connection to Agner-Hurt Elementary School, which is irrelevant to this because it's being removed.

And so for the first part of this, the disturbance is for the existing entrance to remain shown in yellow there the existing entrance is actually already encroaching.

And so it's not in compliance.

And so the second part of that is that they're proposing for

the service would be to grade and extend the existing curb line to allow the existing wood retaining wall to remain and the purpose of this is to allow a larger building footprint and additional parking area and the applicant can provide more detail there and then the second part of that is the second disturbance is in the rear 20-foot use buffer and that is to allow a storm pipe connection to an existing facility on the site and then with that there are conditions for this one and that is just basically general accord

and then the two essential elements or the locations of where those two disturbances would be.

Yeah, that's correct.

Oh, well, I guess step back.

Yes, the step back is for the building itself above four feet.

Yeah, thanks.

Or four stories.

Can we go back to the the exception, the proposed exception for the water for sewage or for runoff?

So is, can you just, I couldn't, I didn't understand, and maybe, and I'm sure you'll defer.

It's a special exception in question to allow a new storm connection to an existing storm pipe.

The applicant can hear that then.

That's a question.

Who does the existing storm pipe belong to today?

Great.

I do have one question.

I think I know the answer, but I'm asking anyway.

So within a C1, there's allowable uses.

Does that change any when you put housing or residential in conjunction with it, like on top?

Indeed they are.

Unless for some reason we would restrict them further.

Mr. Firehock, Mr. Carrazana.

No, I don't have any questions either.

Great.

With that, thank you.

I'll open the public hearing and ask for the applicants

presentation.

And you probably know the process, but just state your name and the record and also you have 10 minutes.

Good evening.

My name is Kendra Moon.

I'm with Light and Grade Civil Engineering, and I'm joined here by Dr. J Knight this evening.

He's the owner of this parcel.

And excuse me if I sound a little hoarse.

Got some allergies, but I think I sound worse than I am.

So here for a special use permit as Sid has walked us through.

I think he's done a good job explaining the context of the site.

One more thing I'd like to point out, this is an existing zoning map and it's a little outdated.

The parcel just across the street was recently rezoned to allow for, I mean, you guys know, but just to refresh your memory, an increased density of 34 dwelling units per acre.

So this is surrounded by residential uses to the northeast and then commercial to the south and east.

And Agner hurt, obviously, to the west.

This is an aerial image of the existing site.

So it's a one story, approximately 6,500 square foot building.

There are 23 parking spaces in front and the proposed or the existing dentist operations are largely going to remain the same in the proposed conditions.

So we propose, even with the new building, the dentist operation will still be there operating eight to five Monday through Thursday.

So they are closed on Fridays.

And I give you all this background information because it becomes relevant for the parking agreement, but so eight employees roughly per shift, about three patients per hour on site.

And in the proposed condition.

The existing parking in front will remain.

The building will be demolished and relocated slightly southeast.

Though generally the layout of the site remains the same.

The building footprint is slightly increased to just under 8,000 square feet and will be four stories maximum.

and just to mention a couple of questions that were brought up I think we've we've established the step back and set back difference even though they're annoyingly close in the way they sound.

I did want to point out this building is set back from the road further than we would typically see in a commercial setting but this is due to there there's an existing water main and sewer main that run through this parking lot and

and easements to ACSA through that, so we're not proposing to relocate those.

And then as for this existing storm pipe through the back of the site,

I can't remember the date of the original plans, but the parcel like north and I think south of this were all permitted together.

And there's a storm pond on the parcel just north of this and this is the outlet from that.

And then it crosses the southern property and there's another like detention pipe.

So this was all put in

a long time ago.

I can't remember the exact date, but that's why that's existing there.

Proposed increase in parking spaces on site, total of 37.

The proposed site operations, as I mentioned, the dentist operation will remain largely the same as it is now, which works nicely with the proposed residences as they'll mostly be gone during the day while the dentist office is open.

So we can reduce the overall parking on the site.

We're requesting a shared parking agreement to be able to reduce parking by up to 35%.

and we don't have architecture for the building yet but Jay is planning on a mix of types of units from like one bedroom, two bedroom, three bedroom and we'll just have to see what fits in the building and we are proposing that 20% be affordable over 10 units so consistent with the comprehensive plan recommendations.

There is

a projected increase in traffic in the morning of about eight trips to or from the site.

And the special exceptions, I think we've mostly covered, but maybe just on the step back, here's a picture from the street of where the building is located.

So it'll be roughly

that same distance from the road.

And the step back is usually meant for the pedestrian.

So they don't just feel like there's this huge wall and closing on them.

But because this is set back further from the road, we didn't feel like that would be an issue.

So we're requesting the reduction to zero feet step back.

So this is my last slide.

We believe it's consistent with the comprehensive plan as this is a urban density residential zone with recommended density of between 6 and 34 units per acre.

We're requesting 15.

We are proposing affordable housing.

So if all 15 units are built, that means three units are to be affordable.

And it fits with the neighboring properties, commercial and residential.

So we don't foresee this being a negative impact on neighbors.

Thank you very much.

Great.

Thank you.

Appreciate that.

Any questions?

Yeah, can just have a brief question.

So obviously you're adding residential use to a commercial building.

That's a great question.

There's it's not there's proposed

This area in the in the rear is still turf or just open area.

So we don't have the details of like an amenity space yet.

But it won't be completely asphalt.

And so there's opportunity for definitely on the site.

And I have shown like a big

possibly bioretention or something out there.

Well, sure.

And they'll just think they're sitting by a garden.

So, all right.

Yeah.

I just, just the idea that you could escape and get outside on a nice day.

All right.

I have no questions.

I'm sorry.

Yeah, I mean, when you look from space at this part of the Albemarle County, there's just so much pavement everywhere.

And so as we're increasing density here, certainly there's gonna be a lot more parking here.

You're gonna have a big building here.

And I know you'll be meeting your state requirements in terms of addressing stormwater volume and so forth.

But is there anything that you are thinking about doing or willing to do in terms of stormwater quality?

That's a great question.

Thank you.

I think

Permiable pavers could work well on this site for the new back portion of the site or biofilter.

I think the applicant's interested in something like that.

It just, we haven't

We haven't actually detailed it yet.

So I'm showing, I'm showing possible underground detention or biofilter.

It also kind of depends if there's good soil in this area, then like a biofilter might be a really great option because we can actually infiltrate into the ground instead of just like piping it somewhere else.

anything else?

Commissioner Bivins.

I believe if I let me I'm not gonna suppose anything.

What are the units?

Are the units rental?

Yeah, that's it.

As I said, we don't have architecture yet.

We're planning on engaging with an architect after this is approved.

I'll ask staff on this.

I'm not sure.

There will be an architect who lets us know if it's required.

Commissioner Murray actually asked a similar question to what I was, just I know stormwater runoff has become kind of an issue downstream as it were as we crossed 29 and hit some of those waterways that feed kind of past Woodbrook and so on and permeable pavers in the back would be a nice touch.

I was, yeah, just asking about, curious about, so the 20% affordable units at 60% AMI is part of the deal.

for the long haul.

I think that's the first one that we've had.

So I just wanted to kind of take a moment to bust out the kazooze or something.

that we actually have one.

So no, I don't have any other questions.

Thank you.

I just had a couple of quick questions.

One, stormwater, keep going back to that, but it kind of depends on the, or dictates the size of the bioretention too.

Have you, when you design the stormwater and tie into the existing pipe, is that existing pipe sized, you know, for the, to take the extra flow?

We have not, I think I've just made these and I wish I could read, I think it's a 24 inch, but it

It handles the overflow from an existing pond, stormwater pond up above.

So I would assume it's sized for like a large storm overflow, but we have not gotten into the details of that yet.

But it is within an easement.

Yeah, we have an easement to do so, but this all it goes into a detention pipe downstream.

So if as long as we're decreasing the flows, it should all.

So you're in.

No, so actually, and I wish I had the overview of the whole how it all fits together, but this, there's an existing pipe in the front parking lot that actually feeds into this whole system in the back.

It wraps around.

And we were proposing connecting

I got you.

Okay.

Correct.

I could have a long conversation about green roofs.

I think, and you only get such a small credit that the cost of them, you still probably would have to purchase nutrient credits and spend a bunch of money on the structural, you know, anyways.

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely,

I know.

Go ahead, Senator.

I'm not going to get you to promise me a green roof.

I will mention it's not a lot of money, but there is some money locally to Bercockshire for green roofs.

Okay.

Through the Sunwater Conservation District that it's one of the few cases where it can apply to new construction.

So it's just going to offset like, you know,

What's it called?

The pre-application meeting that that we should provide one.

So we showed it.

Great.

And then this is a kind of, I guess, just a general policy question.

I'm curious, the parking spaces are designed for the uses that you've got on the site, right?

The number of spaces.

And you said that it's great because the residents will be gone when the dentist office is open.

and I'm just wondering if that's still true.

Like, you know, we used to assume that, right?

Sorry to cut you off.

I had this thought when I was writing the shared parking analysis and I mean, I will admit the statistics I found are just a few like here and there, but I think the highest rate that I found of people who

work from home in 2024 full-time or whatever was it was around like 30% or something that that matched very nicely actually with this 35% reduction.

So I felt comfortable in proposing this like assuming that 70% of you know the residents would be gone during the day or something like that and just the I think the required space for the dental clinic

was a little higher than based on what Jay has said, his staff, eight people and maybe three patients per hour.

So even if we have like a safety factor on that, it's a little bit high.

All right, any other questions?

No, I did look it up, though.

It's the Virginia Conservation Assistance Program.

Great.

Thanks very much.

All right, are there any comments from the public attending this evening?

Don't see any online.

All right.

With that, I'll close the public hearing and open it up to the commission for discussion.

Anybody like to pick us off?

I'll just say that I really like the use of shared parking.

When I was on the Charlottesville Planning Commission, we did that a lot and it's a great idea.

And then the other part is I like adding residential to this site because I figure everyone living there won't have any excuse for not getting their teeth in good shape.

and a stairway down to the dentist office.

It's an underutilized site.

We have a lot of sort of airspace in Albemarle County that's going unused.

Yeah, I'll just come alongside that.

I mean, we don't get a lot of mixed use, particularly in the meaningful ways.

There's 25% in sector commercial development.

So I think we just need to see more of that and its densification.

I think all that are real positives.

I will say just for some of my colleagues at UVA we've had significant experience with pavers and permiol pavers and unfortunately they don't work all that well in parking areas because of oil.

So they start to saturate in them and then they lock them and they clog them.

and they're not going to maintain them.

It's that we don't maintain them.

So it's really hard to maintain.

So they're actually good for walking areas and patios.

But for any kind of driving areas where cars are going to be, oils are going to be spilling on them and other liquids, it's just, it's not very effective, unfortunately.

I think, conceptually, it's a really good use of space as my colleagues have shared.

I would just encourage, as the design continues to mature, just think about the livability.

Right now, to be honest, I just feel like a place I would want to live is the sea of asphalt around so.

getting that architect on board early is important.

This is exactly the sort of thing I'd like to see more of, you know, commercial and residential, you know, stacked on top of each other like this, you know,

Aaron made my comments about, you know, love to see, you know, better, you know, commitment to stormwater treatment, quality on site.

But yeah, I'd love to see more, more like this.

I'd love to see even taller than this.

Christopher Bivins.

That's where I was going to go.

We know that the new project that was mentioned actually sits on a hill and so it's going to have some height to it.

I believe the project next to it also because the topography has some height to it and so I would have been open to having some additional height on it since there has to be an elevator.

And I think then that would have been able to sort of do some interesting things with the form.

Either you could have some balconies, not balconies, is that what they're called in your balcony so that people can have outside space or space in the unit.

If it was, huh, still good.

But that's not what I saw.

I saw a square.

and so I'm just sort of suggesting if it was higher then we would also have to have the step back, which would be helpful.

Similar positive comments from what I've heard from my colleagues.

I think it's a good use.

I also just kind of drove up there the other day and it's like, oh yeah, right.

This is an easy walk to the grocery.

It's an easy walk to the school.

It's an easy walk to the bus stop.

It's a really prime location for some dense housing and it's right next to some existing and soon to be dense housing.

Great.

Thank you.

My only additional comment is kind of coming on board with the density comment, which is, you know, if you have a site like this and you can go high enough and tuck the parking underneath and make the economics work with the commercial, you don't rely as much on the paved parking around it and freeze up some green space.

It could.

So with that, I think we are close to having a motion, but I'll just mention the two special exception requests.

Take exception to the exception.

I do not.

Yeah, I'm fine with them.

We don't.

Yeah, I mean, I think like sometimes we do make a recommendation on a special exception, even though we're not required to, if we think that it needs some more input.

But I think these are really straightforward.

All right.

Would anybody like to make a motion?

I move to recommend approval of SB 202400015, Night Berkshire mixed use with the condition stated in the staff report, and to update the concept plan to remove the proposed future connection to Agneherd Elementary School.

Any discussion?

All right.

Ms.

Firehock.

Hi.

Thank you both.

All right, with that, we will move on to the next public hearing item, which is SP 2024-9, Our Lady of Peace.

Good evening, everyone.

My name is Cameron Langell, and I'm a principal planner with the Planning Division of Community Development.

And tonight, I will be giving you the staff report on this special use permit.

My computer just taken a moment to boot up here, but I will have the presentation on our screens shortly.

OK, well, as I mentioned, I'm Cameron Langell.

Tonight, I'll be giving you the staff recommendation and presentation on SP 2024-09, which is the Our Lady of Peace Assisted Living Facility Special Use Permit Amendment.

So to begin, I just want to talk about the existing conditions.

Basically, this SP affects two properties.

I'm going to use my laser pointer for a moment.

Those properties are highlighted in yellow on this screen.

One of them measures 6.95 acres, and that's this one right here.

And it's currently occupied by our Lady of Peace assisted living facility.

It's got an entrance directly off of Hillsdale Drive.

You can call that the east or the south side.

It's got several areas of parking within the site.

And then the building where all the assisted living units are located has several wings that you can see here.

This SP does affect the abutting property, which measures 12.51 acres, and that is the location of the Church of the Incarnation Catholic Church.

It too has a building that you can see and an entrance off Hillsdale Drive, and there's parking as well.

It's a little difficult from this image, but there is a vehicular interconnection back here that connects these two sites together.

The church does have another driveway up off Hillsdale Drive right there.

One thing to note, I don't have the zoning district shown, but both properties are zoned planned unit development.

They're part of the branchlands planned unit development.

And almost every parcel that you can see on this image also shares that zoning district because they're all part of branchlands.

In terms of surrounding properties, this one that's on the north or west side of Hillsdale Drive is the Jefferson Area Board for the Aging Offices.

This is a courtyard by Marriott Hotel.

This building, it was formerly the Big Lots retail store.

I'm not sure if they're still open, but that's where that was located.

Down here, this structure has got some offices and then these buildings and parcels that you see, they host a variety of residential uses and other assisted living facilities.

I mentioned them by name in the staff report, but again, they're all within the Branchlands PUD.

When you go north, this neighborhood up here is outside of Branchlands.

It's Cobalt Ridge.

It's owned R-15 residential, and as you can see, it's developed with attached residential multifamily uses.

Fashion Square Mall is located to the north.

It's sort of separated by this vegetative buffer, but you can see the parking lot and building there.

to the south and east of these two properties is the Chapel Hills subdivision.

These are zoned R1 residential.

They're just large lot, single family detached residential uses.

So just to get into what this request is, the Our Lady of Peace facility does have an existing special use permit.

And what they're proposing to do is amend that to construct a new wing onto the existing building.

This is the new wing right here.

This immediately abuts the parking area of the church.

So it's sort of the southwest corner or border between the two properties.

There would be 54 total new units that exist within Our Lady of Peace if this SP is to be approved.

The application narrative and staff report breakdown, you know, the different types of care that would be allocated to those 54 units.

But in total, there's 163 beds or units at Our Lady of Peace right now, and this approval would bring it up to 217.

The New Wing of the Building, it basically is going to be three stories.

The habitable space itself is two stories, and it's built above one level of parking, basically a parking garage that you drive in at grade.

On this image right here, you can see this travel way is meant to represent that it's going into that first level of parking under the building.

Some other aspects of what would be changing from the existing conditions include basically a reconfiguration of just that parking area on the church parcel.

They just have to shift things a little bit, get it a little bit more at right angles so that it can meet engineering design standards as well as our zoning ordinance regulations.

This is where the intraparsal connection currently exists.

I can show you a different image later if we get to the question and answer period and you need to see it.

But right now it's way to describe it as it's slightly jagged or serpentine.

And with this reconfiguration, it would just be a lot more straight, which meets our code requirements much better.

One thing to note is that in order to build the new wing of Our Lady of Peace, there would have to be what we call a boundary line adjustment change that would occur between the two parcels just to take some acreage from the church property and give it to the Our Lady of Peace parcel.

This is page five of attachment three.

I'm sorry, I should have mentioned that in the previous slide.

That was page four of attachment three and attachment three is the concept plan that our applicant has prepared.

I think this image is easier to see, but the existing parcel boundaries right here and the proposed parcel boundary would now be here and it would connect right there.

Sorry if my laser pointer didn't stay directly on it, but I just wanted to raise that because they've demonstrated to us that they would be able to meet building setbacks, parking setbacks, and everything else that both parcels need to exist based on their current uses.

So with that, there are no unfavorable factors that we've identified with this proposal and the favorable factors include that is consistent with all the review criteria that we are required to evaluate for within the zoning ordinance.

I just want to reiterate that one of those criteria is consistency with the comprehensive plan recommendations.

This proposal is consistent with the future land use recommendations contained in the Places 29 master plan, which is the development area where it's located.

And furthermore, this is one of the other attachments in the staff report.

We went ahead and evaluated this request against the comprehensive plan neighborhood model principles, which are the design guidelines that staff is required to look at with any sort of special use permit or rezoning application.

and we find that it's fully consistent with all 12 of those principles.

We are recommending approval of this.

We have suggested one condition and that any development that occurs following the special use permit approval would be consistent with the key elements noted by that bulleted list at the bottom of your screen as shown on the concept plan.

So with that, that concludes my presentation.

I have many slides of different pages from the concept plan.

And if you want to look at the zoning map or the Places 29 Future Land Use map, I have those as well.

Great.

Thank you.

Any questions?

All right, Mr. Bivins?

Yes, please.

I think

It is a tax exempt property.

But I just I think I just wanted to make clear that we're talking about an entity moving it moving a boundary that's on that on property that's owned by itself.

If they can talk to us about that.

And then the other question I had, if the boundary adjustment does occur, does parking does the number of parking spaces at the

at the religious entity.

And then my other question is, was the parking that's being designated under, I know many of my colleagues like that approach, but my question is, do they even have to have an additional parking?

With the amount or the number of maximum beds that could be built, there would need to be some additional parking built on the Our Lady of Peace site.

Okay.

And then my other question is, you know, we do this

So if we look at our census that just came out a couple years ago, the fastest growing population in our community is over 55.

And with that comes all the sort of the kinds of services which are there.

And so I'm hoping that there was some discussion.

If you need more capacity, could you start thinking about it now so you don't have to come back in five years?

And so just to create a footprint that allows you to grow, allows you to provide more facility without having to go through this process in the not too distant future.

Thank you, Richard Moore.

Sorry, sorry.

Did it again.

That's nothing.

Just confirmation, I believe my colleague provided the answer.

I just wanted for the record.

So that side of the property is actually quite steep.

And I'm assuming all that is managed slopes and and then the storm water, there's just, can you talk a little bit about the storm water and how that's being treated?

There are areas of both managed and preserved steep slopes on both properties, but any of the grading or construction activity that would need to occur for that new wing to be built would only affect managed slopes.

All the preserved slopes are on the far southern and eastern property boundaries of both.

They're not going to be affected by this.

The concept plan actually has a couple different options, or it just shows options for stormwater management that could take place, you know, at the site development review stage.

And I think the property that actually has the big pond right now next to the church, is that what you were referring to?

Yeah, that is a stormwater property and that was established when all of Branchlands was built.

I think it takes water from several different parcels within Branchlands.

I would just note that that property, I believe I'm correct, this is publicly owned, it's owned by the county.

And in fact, I think the Parks Department is investigating and potentially using it as a pocket park as well, so.

But that's still a water pond.

When you saw the image the camera had earlier with the property boundaries, that triangle shape between Hillsdale and the church, that's the parcel I'm referring to.

I do have questions.

Oh, you're good.

All right.

With that, I will open the public hearing and ask for... Sorry, did you have other?

Oh, yeah.

Just so, you know, about the pod.

So, since, you know, the camera is looking at that, I think there's a lot of opportunities like right now from what I can tell having... It's been a while since I've driven past it, but it's just like your standard

So we're a stormwater detention pond right now without like a lot of anything.

So I hope the county staff is being engaged, you know, with people like Rep Gladly and other stormwater people to think about like integrating some native plants and other things in that area.

We could actually make it something that actually be way more attractive and actually, you know, have some quality treatment of stormwater.

from what I know that is actively ongoing right now.

Parks is evaluating turning it into that pocket park.

But yeah, we've got a native plants list that would probably be part of the programming that would take place if it was truly turned into a park.

All right, I did have one question about setbacks.

Bear with me here.

So I can, it was helpful to trace the line.

I see the line.

So in this case, we use this.

There's a 10 foot setback.

And there's different dash lines.

It's a little bit difficult to see.

And if I mentioned a parking setback earlier, that might have been a mistake because I don't think HUD actually has a parking setback unless it's specifically established.

And I'm not aware of one that pertains to this part of Branchlands.

But again, I've looked at this with zoning and that's something we would have noted during the staff review.

Okay, and it's not a concern to have the travel way that close to the building edge.

That's okay, it crosses the property boundary.

Nothing, no issues there.

Okay, it's just really interesting.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Any more questions?

Cool.

Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the commission.

I'm Lori Schweller, attorney with Williams Mullen, representing the applicant, our lady of peace.

I'd like to introduce the rest of the audience to you.

Here we have the executive director.

Do you have a presentation?

Yes, I do.

OK, because this isn't yours, right?

That's not mine.

Thanks.

You know, Jonathan Showalter with Timmins Group.

And we have Jyke Jones.

So hopefully we'll be able to cover all your questions.

Thank you.

So our Lady of Peace is proposing a special use permit amendment.

This new wing will allow it to bring more assisted living and more skilled nursing home.

This is a senior residential community.

There's independent living, assisted living, long-term nursing.

It's a multifaceted senior living today.

This is the location you've seen.

You can see the location of the proposed wing where the star is.

I think Mr. Langell has covered that extremely well.

This is showing you the two parcels and the zoning.

This is urban density residential is designated and the comprehensive plan.

This map shows you the actual branch lands PUD approval from the 80s and aqua.

So you can see how those parcels fit into that.

This is the existing building in the center of the screen and the church building to the left.

So you can see how they interrelate today.

And just to orient you a little bit, this is the existing entrance, one of two entrances off Hillsdale into Our Lady of Peace.

And this is the entrance to the church off Hillsdale with Our Lady of Peace to the left and the church to the right.

And this access shows you what it looks like when you're heading back toward the site where that stand of trees is.

There is not a sidewalk in this area and we're proposing a new sidewalk.

And this is the area where the proposed

addition would be in this parking lot tree area.

These trees are not in good condition.

In fact, since this photo was taken, one of them has fallen down, according to John Albert.

So those are going to be removed to put the new addition.

And this is the existing conditions here.

You can see the areas of steep slopes between the church property and the existing building.

And so the new addition will allow our Lady of Peace to provide an additional 20 new assisted living memory care units and 34 new private skilled nursing home beds with ADA bathrooms.

So this is a really great addition for Albemarle County.

They have obtained a certificate of public need and the licenses for these new skilled nursing homes were shifted from Southwest Virginia to Albemarle County.

This would be a real benefit to the county.

And to have these as private rooms is just an excellent opportunity provided by this SUP amendment.

As Mr. Langell noted, the total units in the entire facility will increase to 217.

The new wing will include a parking garage.

There's a pedestrian passage that goes under through the garage here.

So I'll show you a little bit better.

This is the new sidewalk.

So the existing sidewalk on Hillsdale

gets a little bit of a jut right here and then ends.

And so the project will add a brand new sidewalk all the way down.

You'll have this pedestrian crossing across where vehicular entrance accesses the parking garage here.

You'll have a nice crosswalk over to the church property here for pedestrians.

and then the sidewalk continues on through the building to the existing building and this is, you know, the existing natural area provides a nice view through the windows of the building and that will remain as much as possible.

This gives you a little bit more detail about the pedestrian access routes, and we're adding a new bike rack in the garage and bike rack in the front of the building.

Just to show you architects, how this garage sits on the property, it will be below grade so that it's not visible from Hillsdale Drive, and then the two new floors above that.

There won't be any significant traffic impact with the addition of these units, so there are no proposed changes to the roadways.

There are lots of transit stops in this area, fortunately.

We're showing five here that are helpful to the employees and the visitors to our Lady of Peace.

Here we can see in green the preserved steep slopes, which as Cameron noted will not be impacted at all by the addition.

The yellow indicates the managed steep slopes and those will be, you know, managed in accordance with county design standards.

We'll talk about stormwater management in the next couple of slides, but of course we'll be designed in accordance with

WPO, VSMP and state requirements and I mentioned the trees that will be removed on the hillside between the church and our Lady of Peace and then of course replantings would be done pursuant to landscape regulations.

This is our stormwater management information for you.

This was something that was brought up generally in the community meetings.

So I have a little bit of detail and John, I think, can fill you in on any more detail you may need.

So the one year storm will be reduced.

Initial calculations show that reduction will be 20 to 50%.

Tenure Storm must be held to pre-construction conditions, and those methods are going to be determined during site planning, not intended to include that dry pond that you mentioned on the county property right here.

Interestingly, this project's drainage contributes less than 2% of the inflow into the branch lands pond, which you can see here.

And I mentioned that because a question was raised during the community meeting.

And so just wanted you to have that information.

Mr. Galloway thought we ought to make that clear.

So you're seeing in dotted line the drainage area to the Branchlands Pond, 91.38 acres.

And of that, the Our Lady of Peace project contributes less than 2% of that.

And this is the Branchlands Pond I mentioned here.

Here's that again with an aerial overlay.

I wanted to talk with you a little bit about Our Lady of Peace in conjunction with the county did a stream restoration project about five years ago and there was significant erosion happening near the retaining wall next to the current memory care wing.

You can see in these photos which are 2018 pre-restoration

In 2019, post restoration that was significantly mitigated and today these are current photographs.

That area continues to be stabilized.

So we're happy about that and don't anticipate contributing any silt downstream.

Just mentioned quickly, special exceptions are being requested.

Those are for modifications to the 1988 ZMA to revise the acreage and the uses of areas A and B within the Branchlands PUD.

So area A is Our Lady of Peace.

Area B is the church and because of that roughly one acre boundary line adjustment, the size and the use on each of those two parcels changes.

So that that's the gist of the special exceptions that are being requested.

As Cameron noted, we think this project is very much consistent with the neighborhood model principles.

The PUD has a wide variety of uses from commercial to all types of residential.

The neighborhood center, fashion square mall and shops along branch lands are within walking and biking distance.

There's a wide variety of housing types and affordability in this area, not only all the senior housing types, but their townhomes and apartments in the area.

Certainly Interconnected Streets and Transportation Networks.

There are two entrances to the project from Hillsdale.

There's interconnection with the church.

Existing pedestrian access with the church will remain.

New sidewalk from Hillsdale to the parking garage and through to the existing building.

There are existing pedestrian and bike facilities along Hillsdale and many transit stops as we showed and a new bike rack is proposed.

This development is interior to the parcel.

I'm sorry.

OK.

Well, the existing Our Lady of Peace has lots of recreational areas, outdoor and indoor.

So we're not proposing anything new.

The courtyard area created by enclosing the existing building with a new wing is really a steep slope with trees, a natural area.

That's not intended to be a new recreational area.

Maximum height would be approximately 46 acres because the second, no new story starts above 40 feet.

There's no step back requirement.

Thank you.

Could you just confirm that the ownership of both parcels is the same?

Technically no, but yes, in essence.

Can you give me a better answer?

As Cameron pointed out, the subject parcel is owned by Our Lady of Peace, but it's an affiliate of the

So after the boundary line adjustment, that land will become part of the other parcel.

Oh, yes.

They are very much in cooperation on this project.

Thank you.

So can you pull up the the plan that showed the drainage again?

Yeah, actually, can you go back to those retaining walls?

So can you point to where those are on the site plan?

That's the one we're looking at with the retaining wall.

I wasn't quite sure where that was.

So that's all within the property.

And so you're not anticipating, I mean, you're far enough away from that stream that there's no issues with the buffer, it seems like.

That's right.

To give you some more context.

Yeah, you're just, you're quite a bit, what is that?

Yeah, I just, I didn't quite see where that, where the creek was and where the walls.

Sure.

And I just actually bounce off that one.

Yes.

I'm OK.

Thanks.

So on this image, you see the note on the far right.

that says potential location of sewer connection.

So that's on the building side of the stream, right?

There's no stream crossing.

That's that is correct on this image.

The stream is over here to the right.

Got it.

OK.

Great.

Thank you.

You leave that slide there.

I'm curious if you could after you parked your car, could you show me how you would access the new proposed wing after you part?

So you drive in here and then there's a elevator, elevator in here and that so you can access the new wing or you can walk through here to the existing building.

So can an ambulance then just thinking someone passes in their room, God forbid?

Back there.

Mr. Jones is shaking his head.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Within the garage.

OK.

Just making sure we're not, you know,

having deceased people, transported all throughout creation, right, to get to a vehicle.

All right, Commissioner Murray.

And as one of the topics that was brought up for Incendiary Adding, the parking garage is the amount of parking that'll be on the site.

A little over, I think, and I can show you here.

This is on the plan.

This is just a cut and paste from the plan to show that both the church and our Lady of Peace would continue to have

quite sufficient parking.

You can see that the church requires quite a lot of parking.

It's a pretty large church, but they will continue to have enough.

So have you considered removing them in the existing surface parking once you put that other structure there?

And I'll mention that there is

Once again, second time admission to incentive programs, but there is an incentive program actually to remove impervious surface in Amor County.

There hasn't been any discussion about removing parking.

I mean, if you look once again, if you look from space at that whole area of it's, it's just one big sea of asphalt, you know, in that area of the county, and a lot of it is unused parking.

So, you know, particularly, you know, Fashion Square Mall, which is not too far away, that area is just a big ocean of asphalt.

And so anything we can do to reduce the amount of asphalt, particularly if it's not likely to be fully utilized, would be an asset, I see.

In fact, even if there's, if we need to get an exception from the county,

Well, I would add that, you know, for our Lady of Peace new addition, we only need 30 spaces.

And so we're adding what we need, 38 spaces in the parking garage.

And those spaces, you know, are valuable to seniors because they and their guests can drive into the parking lot and access the building

easily and not have to walk so far from surface parking into the building.

So it's, I think it's particularly warranted in this case to provide it beneath the building.

It just seems an important amenity in this case.

Most of the parking you see is actually on the church property.

Mr. Bivins?

Thank you, Chair.

My only, as I said earlier on, my only piece is the hope that if you need more capacity, which I given the demographics of our region, that you can accommodate here, you have some room for growth here.

And so that you're not sort of in a position where you have to come back in 10 years to ask for

another 40 spaces when the site could certainly handle a larger addition.

It could.

It could handle a lot of addition.

And I'll speak to my colleague to my left there while it may appear, you know, this is that whole issue about

Religious institutions having a need for parking at X Pier for a few times a day, and I can tell you from having been over here during one of those X times a day, there are times when it's really hard to find a parking space over here because it is just filled with

families and sorted cars.

And so while it may be one of those off-peak things, I don't necessarily know that it goes.

When the church is in session, I don't think that the space is gone wanting.

And I'm hoping

with the purchase and the new PPP, P3 partnership with Home Depot that will actually see some significant, significant sort of development over at Fashion Square because that's been something that people have been trying to think about.

Is that a place that we could actually create new community and with the county engaging with that?

and the new owner, the majority owner of that space.

I think we might see something there also.

And so not to try and sort of to sort of skirt around.

Thank you, Commissioner Moore.

All right, great.

Thank you.

Are there, is there anyone present who would like to speak to this topic?

Okay.

All right.

Okay, great.

Well, with that, I'll close the public hearing and open it up for discussion.

It's a great project.

I'm glad they're parking under the building and I think they're going to need a lot more capacity.

Thanks, Mr. Carrazana.

Anybody?

Anyone on this end?

I'll just say that I'm really glad to see two some people putting in parking garages.

It's a much better use of space than surface parking.

I'm glad to hear, you know, the assessment that that all that parking will probably be used so that that's good.

And and it's true.

I mean, this is an aging population.

It's something that's needed.

So

More?

I would just, you know, there's a, so while the applicants spoke to the branch lands pot.

which is a green space that if you want to walk to it, at our age, you might get, well, at your age, not at my age.

You might get looked a little stink-eyed at because it is in an aging community, but it's actually very nicely done.

And so that stream that comes alongside the property line has actually been, because of the rehabilitation, it actually works very nicely.

But remembering that at the southwest corner of the church, there is a pond.

Across the street, down from Foodline, there are two ponds.

And then at the corner, which I think is the place that the county's spending a great deal of effort trying to mitigate flooding, because when it floods, it's

Troublesome there, I'll just say that.

So in that area there, there actually are four water and water things to manage features, to manage the runoff coming down that hill.

Now the county is going to spend a bit more at the intersection, if you'll remember where

We worked on something for Viya when they moved to the old senior center.

That pond there, that water feature there is the one which is trying to figure out how to manage that so that it doesn't spill into that intersection there.

But there are a number of intentional water features there to try and manage runoff down that hill, down the hillstile hill.

Plus, I imagine once we straighten that road out and go through fashion square mall,

that that will also change that, won't it?

So just one little thing I will mention when I was trying to pull up the water protection ordinance buffer, I saw that the streams in the areas were not covered with an ordinance buffer.

And so it did kind of look to me like a perennial stream just on the images there.

Thanks, Commissioner Bivins.

Seems like it meets a need, and it certainly is consistent with the plan that we've got and the area that we've got.

Great, thanks.

The only thing I'll add is it's nice to see that connection to Hillsdale Drive, that pedestrian connection too.

You never do.

Great.

Anybody interested in making a motion?

And this is a reminder, I think we do also have special exception requests, which were mentioned for the acreage.

All right.

Anybody interested in making a motion?

I will move to recommend approval of SP 2024, Bunch of Zeros 9, Our Lady of Peace Amendment with conditions as stated in the staff report.

Any further discussion?

Moore having a busy night with his motions.

Both my district.

Mr. Firehock.

Hi.

Mr. Carrazana.

Mr. Missel.

Mr. Murray.

Mr. Bivins.

Hi.

Mr. Moore.

Hi.

Thank you.

Thank you.

with that we will move on to committee reports.

Are there any updates from commissioners on committees?

No, no, no, no, no.

I do.

I had a CAC and see I remember.

I don't know which one it is, but I had a CAC listening.

And I'm going to chair suggest something for us.

I'm going to suggest that we hear from

that we hear from Christy Shiflett, who is the Chief Operating Officer of the county, because the county has a strategic plan, execution, analysis, and reporting, and many of us have wondered what are the ways in which things are being measured.

and Will Be Measured.

And she spoke particularly to the whole idea that the county is not only collecting data and is also setting strategic goals, but it's also figuring out what are the ways in which those goals are going to be measured and which ways those are going to be successful.

And AC 44 may not be ready yet, but AC 44 was coming under that whole

sort of rubric of strategic planning.

And so I think while we may not be specific to AC44, I think hearing from her and how the county's approach that will help to perhaps give us a deep breath.

that, in fact, there's things which are being put in place to answer a number of the questions that we've had about, well, how are you going to measure that?

And how are we going to know that you did the right thing?

But there is a mechanism within the county to do that.

Did Ms.

Schiffler present to your CAC?

Is that what you brought to us?

She presented to our CAC.

Nice, nice.

And if she comes here, perhaps she'll give you your own copy.

She'll give you your own.

The other thing that the other presentation we had was from Stacy Pethia.

and we've heard from her before, but we've heard from her as things sort of were kind of gelling together.

What was interesting to me last night was to hear how much they gelled together and how much there is and how much there is a sort of multifaceted housing approach by the county.

particularly for those individuals who are who are either unhoused or who are who are at income levels that it's challenging for them to find housing.

It is.

Thank you.

We can talk about that offline.

Awesome, thank you.

Mr. Barnes?

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

There were four items that went to the board on the 4th.

The first was the wireless CTA return to the board.

They had actually asked staff to go back and look at some of the potential issues related to biodiversity, to mountaintop protection, historic protection.

There was a lengthy debate about it at the board.

At the end of the day, the draft that had been put before them moved forward as was proposed.

I didn't understand it.

Yeah, I remember that.

And then I read the minutes and then.

So they basically, after the.

I was not actually there that meeting.

I apologize.

I was out of town, but my understanding was that.

So I had a question about that too.

I know one of the comments I had made to the board supervisors was about, you know, you had the biodiversity, you had the large forest blocks designated as suggested as avoidance areas.

And I know that those did not include what we call a natural heritage committee or special sites.

Some of those sites just happened to be in those areas, but many were not.

I meant to go back and listen to that recording too, but I think the discussion was primarily geared towards trying to like bring in biodiversity areas.

Um, so for those who aren't aware, um, so one of the things there's, there's the large landscape scale of these are large forest blocks, but there are also areas in our Marconi where they're been identified on natural communities of importance, where you have, um, state critically imperiled species, the state ranks species from S one, you know, S three, S one being critically imperiled as to being threatened and as to

And so we have several areas in the county that include S1 species.

And we even have some areas in the county that include what are called G1 habitats.

So the G scales are actually global scales.

So we have some areas that are actually globally rare habitats as recognized by DCR.

I think it's important

Historically, before colonization, our landscape was actually mosaic of grasslands, woodlands, and other kinds of habitats.

So while protection of forests is important, it's not the only kind of habitat that's important to protect.

And so it's an inclusion of those other habitats of grasslands and wetlands, other systems, I think is important when we consider things like avoidance areas.

Thanks.

Great.

Yes, sir.

The other two were items that you all had previously seen.

One was a 1928 Scottsville Road.

That was the one southern part of town wedged between about 20 South and Avon.

It was a six unit townhouse complex.

I know that it was one of the questions that sort of come up about the neighborhood of a little bit farther than the north.

I had the, you know, the older rock walls and steps, and I think they're going to try and continue to work with them.

I guess maybe I would just follow up with that one passed as well by the board.

The other one was on Ryro Road there, the Community Christian Academy, the modular buildings that also moved through fairly uneventfully.

And then the final thing was a family, the Roach family in Cozay on 240.

It was a request to be adding them to the connect to public water and sewer, actually to sewer.

I think they already have public water and

that properties right next to the Beaver Hill mobile home park that's there.

And so it's a smaller house right next to that.

That was also granted capacity to join the public sewer system.

The house was?

Great.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Let me just ask a question.

Is that

on 4A.

Is 4A connected to that property?

Oh, no.

Yeah.

And that's closer down the Skyler area.

Oh, the Skyler.

OK.

Great.

Thank you.

Segway and Dacey, 44 update.

All right.

Go ahead.

Mr. Bivins was asking about Chestnut Grove that was on the agenda.

Chestnut Ridge Road kind of connects to the James River Road.

OK, I know where that is.

Thanks.

Yes, sir.

So we are in the thick of it, staff level, and we are getting ready to roll out a fair amount of stuff in October.

We'll be going back to the public with some stuff.

of Development Area Land Use Policies to your wall for your review.

And hopefully over the next several months, you'll be seeing several of the chapters, topic chapters dealing with both policy of land use and rural area land use, transportation of the rural development areas.

This is where we're going to start.

We'll work towards the environmental chapters after that.

So again, we'll be multiple meetings with you over the next several months to get through those topic areas.

So in that schedule, I mean, obviously we haven't, we haven't, I haven't seen the schedule.

I know it's been changed and all that.

Will there be adequate time for when the Planning Commission reviews something for that review to be captured and presented

to the board of supervisors as part of any review that they would do.

Our intent is to keep them closely paired.

Yeah, because it's, you know, we get it and we have a lot of comments and then, and then it's, thank you.

And then they, the board gets the exact same document.

So it's not reflecting our ideas.

It's just additional thought for them.

Well, there was project.

I appreciate that concern, specifically, I think, more globally speaking, yeah.

are tense going to be bringing both bodies a very similar package, if not the same package, and to explain to the board some of the discussion that happened at the Planning Commission on major topics.

And we should be provided another minutes.

Yeah, the only reason it wouldn't have been there is if we missed a meeting, like we did a couple months or that we'll do this month as well.

Right.

So these minutes won't be

approved until October, but usually we do it every two weeks.

That's pretty quick.

Let me know the date.

The past so much to just make sure that our deliberations actually go to the board and they have them as part of theirs.

Yeah, I mean, just to add on to that, I mean, I understand the time constraints and so forth.

And I think there's been, sometimes when it's done, been done better than it has other times.

I mean, I think at least

as opposed to just a raw presentation of the minutes, at least a staff analysis that says, you know, these are some really key things that the Planning Commission brought forward that we think might be good additions.

So that, so that, so that it's really, there's some analysis that happens between, something that happens between we, when we,

Before you're tenure back here, we did talk to staff about that and some attempt was made to try to do what you're saying.

So I kind of don't want us to slide back to where it's like, here's 50 pages of minutes you can comb through and see what was relevant to your discussion and take notes on the side and try to then conclude.

But if there were some kind of summary, like here's some key points from the planning commission, please consider those as part of your deliberation.

So yeah, and you know, like here's some key points to keep in mind kind of thing.

Yeah, I think in fact, we can even structure our conversation about around that.

So at the end of the discussion, what are the key takeaways and actually even ask staff to list what their key takeaways are.

We do have a far-ranging conversation.

Mr. Barnes, I had a question about that as well.

If you go to the website, it says, where are we in the process on the AC44 process?

And it says, under fall, winter, 2024,

AC44 team drafts comp plan document finalizes draft plan recommendations.

AC44 team publishes draft comp plan document.

And I'm not, I'm not trying to word Smith or nitpick here.

The next one says winter spring 2025 planning commission and board work sessions on overall plan implementation and key issues.

So if I'm the public

and we know that we're going to have work sessions during the fall and winter of 2024.

Yes, sir.

Awesome.

Thanks.

And then just echo the needing enough time to review the materials to give you guys all the credit for doing that work.

OK.

I hope you get the input.

Thank you.

All right.

I mean, so here's this thing that's been sort of this maybe big business.

And I know that the council is going to look at me sort of oddly here.

He's already, he's making his face already.

I want to just put it out there.

I want to put it out there.

So, you know, everything we do is exception based.

We're the, we're the, we're the board of exceptions.

We don't do any, except for the comp plan, which I'll reserve comment on that right now, whether or not the exception or not.

But one of the things that we sort of give away, or it seems like that the county gives away without receiving anything back, are exceptions.

You know, you can get a density bonus.

You can get all kinds of bonuses that sort of if you give something to the county, then the county expects something from you.

But some of these exceptions can make or break a project.

And while I haven't looked at all of the

Supervisors meetings.

I have looked at a few of them and the exceptions are just sort of taken, said yes and they go on.

And we may have just made a project, a yes project for somebody and we didn't get anything back.

and so while I know this is probably, you know, I'm like a commercial dude.

I want something for something and so if we're giving you the ability to sort of do your project, I think the county should get something for that.

And so, can you just explain to me what the exception project is?

Sure.

Well, so the process for applying for and the criteria under which special exceptions are based is spelled out in the ordinance.

And obviously there are lots of different types of special exceptions, each one of which has special criteria.

Almost all the special, almost all the special exceptions have specific criteria that the board has asked to evaluate.

Staff takes the first crack at analyzing them from a planning perspective.

And then the board will decide whether or not it agrees with staff's recommendation.

Again, the special exceptions are essentially deviations from what the ordinance requires.

I agree with that.

And so what we've done in the housing thing is we've said to a developer, if you want an amount of additional capacity, we will do a will give you a tax break for a number of years.

and the developers is, okay, I'll see if those calculations work for me and they will either or not do it, right?

And so it just seems to me, if I come to the board with and with the criteria that staff has looked at for an exception, at the end of the day, we're basically just looking at whether or not the exception is a viable is a viable variance from the ordinance.

We're not saying there's no quid pro quo, if I can use that term between which I would say there is one if you look at proffers and you look at whether or not I'm going to get extra density there is sort of a there should have been an exchange for that permission to do it, but there doesn't seem to be an exchange for exceptions, and often as I've looked at some of the things that we've done exceptions for

We make the project, well, we don't.

The Board of Supervisors makes the project a green go, a green light, as opposed to saying, no, we're not going to do your exceptions of what suppressor was like.

Well, that was nothing.

I think I'm going to take this thing and go home then.

And so I know that that's a hard thing.

But when I start looking for what are the ways that the county can achieve the kinds of goals that it wants, I look at what are the leverage levers that the county has.

to say to a developer who's come to us and asked for an exception, and we most of the time say yes, and then they go to them and hopefully they say yes, but then they deal with an exception and just gets basically a project for it, but nothing else.

I'll just throw out a comment, just a thought on that same line.

You know, thinking about the exceptions, right, that we saw tonight,

The first one was to adjust a single acre from one to the other.

So it's really not really, they're not really gaining anything from that.

It's just an adjustment to correct essentially an older, I think it was a special use permit.

The other is the step back waiver.

And the step back waiver really provides the county what they want in terms of density, right?

We're creating density in that area.

So in my mind, were we getting back for that?

It would be density.

We're actually getting something that we want.

And then the other one is those perimeter, little boundary buffer issues.

without those adjustments, it would cost the applicant more money and kind of be silly, really.

So I hear what you're saying in general.

I'm just thinking about the three that we saw tonight.

I agree.

The one where I've sort of sat on this is Luis's comment about the one up by the Food Lion at Proffa Road and Airport.

We seem to have given that.

I don't know if they're ever going to build a thing.

Maybe they will never build it.

But the thing that you were concerned with was that there was no setbacks.

There were no stepbacks.

We basically said, sure, you can build these blocks because I remember you talking about it was just this big, massive sort of townhouses that were up there.

And we said yes to the project, but I don't think we got anything for yes.

And so for my colleagues who are, you know, who

probably more passionate about certain types of design elements than I might be, because I'm learning about some of your comments.

It just seems some developments seem to achieve a yes.

with the county not receiving or the design part of it not being a richer design than we should possibly be having, that I might expect, that I might expect.

And so that's just, I start seeing that with the exception piece, that's why.

And your comments have stuck with me about that, you know, that Food Lion project that

Yeah, I think I think the council wants to make so if I could just share basically the most basic criteria for special exception.

So this is what was required for special exception under section five, which is the supplemental regulations.

And many of the special exceptions come in under section five.

And in order to do that, the board needs to make a finding that such requirement that is the requirement of the chapter would not forward the purposes of this chapter, the zoning ordinance or otherwise serve the public health safety or welfare.

or that a modified regulation would satisfy the purposes of the zoning ordinance to at least an equivalent degree is the specified requirement.

So basically the board is finding that the zoning regulation doesn't serve its purpose or that modifying it would serve just as good of a purpose.

And I think there is some benefit to be said for allowing some latitude and flexibility.

It's hard to be completely omnipotent when you write an ordinance.

And so this is one of the major things.

I think that flexibility actually enables development to move forward in a way that otherwise you'd hit that snag and you'd have to stop it.

I mean, please accept, I'm not trying to say that the exception process is wrong.

All I'm simply saying is that many of the other processes that we go through, whether or not it's zoning or it's an SUP, there is an identifiable benefit that comes out of a yes somewhere.

We get something for it.

really get more housing.

We get, you know, we get some, hopefully you don't get top lots, but we get multi-generational lots as we're trying to push towards them.

And that's something that helps the life of the community that you can point to.

Well, I appreciate you remembering and jogged my memory a little bit on that conversation.

And so, Counselor usually reminds us of, we're not setting precedents, which a lot of people think we are.

And that's because every situation is different.

So we could look at the exception and say, well, there's a lot of benefit to this project.

Maybe it's not the perfect project, probably is no perfect project, but there's

There's a lot of benefit by building this project, whether we get more density, we get more housing, we get more commercial, whatever it might be.

And so, yes, maybe there's we'll need to weigh is that, you know, the setback issue, the stepback is something that we've and one of my issues with it has been a lot of times they're asking us to evaluate that and get rid of it without giving us information to evaluate it.

We don't get sections.

We don't understand.

Sometimes we don't get topos to even understand, well, what is the condition of this, of this property?

I mean, unless we have the time to go out there and take a look at that property and, and really evaluate it personally, we really wouldn't know.

Is it appropriate or not?

So I think that's been one of my issues with some of those exceptions.

But yeah, everyone's going to be different.

And I do think that's the reminder that we always get, which is really appropriate.

And I don't think the public understands that, because a lot of the comments that we get, they think that if we make a recommendation, we are setting precedents.

Thank you, Chair.

Yeah, there's something separate.

I know if we were wrapped up on that topic, are we good?

Mr. Barnes says yes, we are good.

As we continue just to do our work, I just want to make sure, just as a group, we're really trying to stay abreast of what the county's goals and vision is in certain sectors, right?

So we've had economic development, you've had housing, Commissioner Bivins, you mentioned, the chief operating officer provided some insights on vision and tactics and goal settings.

There's other topics out there as well, like the transportation.

We used to get a presentation from Mr. McDermott on the smart scale projects that were in queue and what's coming.

We have microtransit out there.

How is that performing?

The jaunt, how does that start to interplay with some of the conversations we're having on projects?

Just want to start keeping that stuff in the forefront.

I'm sure there's a whole laundry list and I know time is limited.

I'm not saying it needs to be a work session.

It could be just a 20 minute

presentation, five minute Q&A, and keep moving.

Almost like a White House briefing, right?

Just, you got 20 minutes for the docket and we keep going.

Great reminder.

Something to keep in mind.

We got that in a minute, right?

Great, I think.

Oh, I just had one lighter item and I brought this up in a question to staff.

But when we have these mitigation projects where someone has impacted a stream buffer, we have one of these projects going on in Crozet right now where there was

There were exceptions made so that development could encroach upon into the stream buffer, and so there's mitigations that was done.

It would be nice to know, and maybe there is a procedure for this, but to know where that mitigation occurred, first of all, so that when later people say, well, what did happen to that mitigation that happened?

Where did it go?

and then the other thing are tree tubes because those things are menace and I'd love to know what is just some tree tubes they they're put around the little saplings to protect them when young but if they're not removed they become an enormous source of garbage

and there's a big problem in Crozet right now along the trail where there's just no one ever removed the tree tubes, they're choking the trees, they're meant to protect.

They're not biodegradable and you know it's like you can see some efforts by Crozet trail crew and other people just trying to remove them but it's just if you go down there you know it's just enormous

Garbage.

So just those two items, when mitigation occurs, where did it go?

How do we track that?

Someone asked later, what happened to the mitigation that occurred and the tree tube thing?

Great.

That was actually something that's come up before, because there's been projects where there was no mitigation.

There was mitigation presented, but then it didn't materialize.

and actually there's quite a bit of them and examples of that in Prozac.

I just had one quick, and I would love to see some pickleball courts being implemented in amenities.

So I'll just put that out there.

with Kitchell.

Mr. Barnes, we've got some items for fall.

I think I heard a series of topics this evening that you guys were interested in, including Christie Schifflett's strategic plan, sort of in-depth discussion of where we stand with housing policy, which that may come to you when we talk about that with that chapter.

Update on Microtransit, I guess a micro update on smart scale, which I think we did provide, but we can give you another one of those.

Maybe you can handle that sort of pickleball court question by doing something like having a list or examples of the kind of amenities that we don't have much of in the county.

So when a developer is thinking of proffering something,

You know, they would have a list of like, what is it that county wants?

There's a lot of times developers, I work with developers a lot, they're just like, okay, here's a taut lot.

And then you look at the development, it's like, that's not even a development, it's likely to have tauts.

You know, and what about us old people?

I used to pickleball somewhat unjust, but not completely.

Yeah, it wasn't literally just like... Not completely, but that is the issue.

I mean, a lot of times we'll get something in front of us.

It's always the same thing, the Todd Loss and the Doc Farks, and that's an amenity, and that's counted towards my open space, and it's like, they're really needed.

But pickleball.

I am prepared to adjourn us until Tuesday, October 8, 2024, at 6 a.m.

Thank you.