Planning Commission Regular Meeting   5/28/2024

Awesome.

Good evening, everyone.

I will call to order the May 28, 2024 Planning Commission for Albemarle County.

and I'll just read this.

The opportunities for the public to access and participate in the hybrid meeting are posted on the Albemarle County website on the Planning Commission homepage and on the Albemarle County calendar.

Participation will include the opportunity to comment on those matters for which comments from the public will be received.

Let me establish a quorum.

Yes.

Ms.

Firehock is not here at this time.

Thank you.

With that, we'll move on to other matters not listed on the agenda from the public.

Are there any matters from the public not listed on tonight's agenda that they would like to speak to?

Second.

Awesome.

Any discussion?

Mr. Bivins.

Hi.

Mr. Murray.

Hi.

Mr. Missel.

Hi.

Ms.

Firehock.

Hi.

Good timing, Commissioner Firehock.

All right.

Well, with that, we'll move on to the public hearings and we'll begin with SP 2023-21.

Blow, Hyundai.

Could we have the welcome?

And could we have the staff report please?

Good evening.

My name is Chris Taggart.

I'm a senior planner with the Planning Division of Albemarle County Community Development.

Margaret Melisesi assisted with the review and is here tonight as well.

I will be giving staff's presentation for the special use permit and the associated special exception.

As with all SPs, we will need a recommendation to forward to the board.

Regarding the special exception, the planning commission is not required to make a recommendation.

However, the commission chooses to provide comments on the request.

Staff will include those in the transmittal summary to the board.

I'll address the special SP first and the special exception second.

Subject properties located on the west side of Route 29 between 2070 and 2150 Seminole Trail.

All immobile dealerships are located on both those properties and residential properties are located across Berkmore Drive to the west and across Route 29 to the east.

Subject properties currently vacant and mostly wooded.

Here are a couple of street views that show the existing conditions of the property from Route 29 in Berkmore Drive.

The special permit request is for outdoor display, outdoor storage display and sales of vehicles in the entrance for overland, while referred to this outdoor display in this presentation.

The plane shows spaces for outdoor display in blue and yellow shading, and the yellow shaded spaces are also identified for vehicles weight and repair.

Motor vehicle sales is a by right use in the zoning district, but the outdoor display is a special use.

SP's for outdoor display are reviewed under section 30.6.

That limits the factors to be considered to determining whether the outdoors play is consistent with entrance, quarter design guidelines.

The ARB applied those guidelines in its review of this request in February of this year.

ARB voted no objection to the SB request with revisions to the concept plan that can be resolved during the final site plan review and with conditions approval that are standard for this type of request.

The conditions are listed here and we can bring them back up if needed.

The favorable factor for this request is the outdoors play use would be consistent with the EC design guidelines if ARB's recommending conditions are upheld.

For this reason, staff recommends approval of special permit for outdoors play with those conditions.

Associated with SP Request is a request for a reception from the Supplementary Regulation 5.31B.

That regulation requires vehicles waiting to repair be located where they're not visible from any public street or any residential property.

Vehicles waiting to repair are opposed to the yellow highlighted space lease, totaling 248 spaces.

As currently proposed, most of these spaces are visible from both public streets and residential properties.

One reason there is so much visibility of those spaces is that Berkman Drive is elevated between 2 and 28 feet above them.

From Berkman Drive, views of vehicles away to repair would be available south of the building and into the parking lot would open view at the entrance to the site.

From Route 29 views would be available to use spaces from a distance at the site entrance.

Victorian Heights, which is highlighted in orange on the map, is a residential development currently under-constructed across Berkmore Drive to the west.

Units within this development would be elevated between 15 and 64 feet above where the vehicles weighting repair would be located, allowing views into most of these areas.

There has been no previous request for exceptions for the requirement for screening vehicles, weight and repair.

However, there are many examples of screening vehicles, weight and repair through the SP and site plan review processes.

In these instances, visibility has been eliminated by positioning the spaces so that building, topography, fencing, landscaping, or a combination of these features screen the vehicles from public streets and residential properties.

We acknowledge that the types of vehicles waiting to repair in the site will have little visual difference between display vehicles and that the topography makes meeting the visible visibility requirement challenge.

However, the ordinance is clear.

and the site layout could do more to relegate parking and reduce visibility, including positioning vehicle repair building near Birkmaar Drive so that provides greater screening, limiting parking areas to locations behind the buildings and providing additional landscaping, including evergreens along Birkmaar Drive and at the perimeter, interior of the parking areas.

Because methods for screening are available, but have not been used to a sufficient degree to minimize impacts, staff cannot recommend approval to special exception requests.

Once again, the planning commission is not required to make a recommendation on special exception.

However, the commission chooses to provide comments on the requests that will be included in the transmission, transmittal summary to the board.

Excellent staff report.

Thank you.

We'll open it up to questions from the Commission.

Question is about the water runoff, storm water runoff in particular.

Okay.

I want to just start, since this is the opportunity to bring it up from this body, I want to just mention that this has been a real issue of concern for a whole bunch of neighborhoods in the Rio area as more and more things get paved over on that side of 29.

and it looks like there's an option in the water, stormwater drainage sort of infrastructure we've got where there's some pipes that could take it straight to the Rivanna or a channel that could take it kind of under 29 and then and then past the Woodbrook neighborhood.

Great, thank you, Mr. Bivins.

Thank you, Chair.

I think this might be for the applicant, but I will ask it here.

So on page three of the staff report, you have outdoor storage in place and sort of a robin egg blue, which if I'm understanding, that would mean that only cars

or sort of customer cars or folks like that could park in that area.

And I'm wondering if a customer's car or somebody wanted to go pick up their car or leave it there and go have lunch or do whatever they do on Route 29 nowadays, would they be prohibited in the yellow spot, which is around the garage area, which is yellow, which is awaiting the vehicles that are only there for awaiting repair as opposed to

The Aqua spot allows people who would be available for customer.

Oh, no.

The customer spot would only be allowed in the purple area.

So is there a customer parking in the back also?

If not, I would recommend there be customer parking in the back.

But you can also say that you think the applicant should be able to answer that.

I'm okay with that.

I'm bringing it up now because it didn't make any sense to me that all customer parking is relegated to the front of the property when many people will be going to the back of it and there should be somewhere for people who are customers to park back there.

When do you want us to ask questions about the exception after this?

No, I think during this time.

So I'm not opposed to the exception, because right next door to it is their sister dealership.

I think this is Meloise.

This is not the ever-growing flow.

So right next door is a Ford dealership.

Right next to that is

I think the former Price Chevrolet, which was Chevrolet Hyundai.

And so I don't understand why this particular car lot is being subjected to

What is not being appreciated is that this exception is not being appreciated when all the car lots around them have, you can see cars from Burkmore Drive.

and I think, and if we go further up to where the putt-putt used to be in the, I don't know, I think it's a dermatological place right now.

And it was, I think Harvest Moon is over there.

While you may not see cars being worked on, which I don't think you'd see the cars being worked on here, there's a gigantic parking lot of people hanging out, but with cars parked there.

So this doesn't feel any different than anything that's around it.

I should also say.

And then with the back end of Better Living now, the entrance to Better Living being from Berkman Drive, there's again, industrial sort of light industrial activity going on on the east side of Berkman Drive that I would not be supportive of them being exempted from this or not being able to do what everybody else is doing.

Yes, I think we're having the appropriate amount of

What is the word?

The first suggestion was one that would suggest rotating the vehicle repair building here.

So the price kind of more screening along the frontage versus just the end of the building.

Second recommendation was limiting the parking areas to locations behind the buildings showing through the site.

Thanks.

Thank you, Mr. Tiger.

Great presentation.

Great.

I just have one quick question.

One is under the special use permit recommended actions.

There's number four and number five that are both directly from the ARB reports.

The letter

and there are other recommendations in addition to those.

Is there a reason that the other recommendations were not included in the conditions or recommended actions?

The two that are in the special use permit are landscape plan and lighting plan.

Then if you look at their letter, it talks about re-standing poles, either dark brown or bronze or black,

Complete Landscape Plan, revise the parking schedule to match the number of spaces shown on the site plan, standard plan, health note, any of those.

Good evening, everyone.

Margaret Malaszewski with the Planning Division.

I think the difference is that there might have been more detail in the ARB action letter.

Okay, got it.

Got it.

That makes sense.

Okay.

So we didn't miss any other words.

Got it.

All right.

Thank you.

With that, I will open the public hearing and call for the applicant's report.

And I think you know the drill.

You have 10 minutes present.

Good evening, Chair Missel, members of the Planning Commission.

My name is Kelsey Schlein.

I'm a planner with SHMP Engineering.

I'm here tonight representing the Property Gunner and Applicant Flow 2110 Seminal LLC.

Also here with me tonight is Justin Schimp, the project engineer.

So both of us are available for any questions you might have once the opportunity comes up for that.

Could I, I have my slides up here.

Could I get them projected up there?

Drag, I think.

Drag!

I need to get this new one all figured out.

Hold on.

This new system, I haven't quite, there we go.

I always forget the drag or the new system.

Thank you.

All right, there we go.

Sorry about that.

All right, so thank you for the staff report and presentation, Chris.

So as Chris noted, this is a request for outdoor sales storage and display within an entrance corridor to permit the outdoor sales storage and display of vehicles.

Also concurrent with this request, we have pursued a special exception request that relates to the visibility of vehicles awaiting repair.

And so I have a few slides to speak to that tonight as well.

So this is the nearly six acre site located on with Frontage on Route 29.

So this is the entrance corridor and the reason that we're before you tonight with this request.

back here, Berkmar Drive, and then automobile dealerships on either side, Malloy Ford and Malloy Chevrolet.

This is just the view from 29, so currently it's a vacant wooded site.

This is the view looking south towards Malloy Ford and the view looking north towards Malloy Chevrolet.

So going into our concept plan, we're proposing three structures as part of this automobile dealership development with affiliated outdoor sales storage and display areas.

Speaking to just commenting on Commissioner Bivins' question about the customer parking being up towards the vehicle repair area,

Point Well Taken and we're happy to clarify that.

I think we also just imagine that in that area it would largely be customers who have dropped off their car for repair and so then therefore would fall under the vehicle's awaiting repair requirement.

but we can definitely, if that needs to be further clarified, to allow for some additional parking up there, happy to do so.

The reason that we broke up the uses this way, so the front part of the site is dedicated to the outdoor storage and display and then we wanted to permit the greatest flexibility possible here in the colors shown in yellow and so we've designated that as both areas for outdoor storage and display

and vehicles awaiting repair.

And the reason for that is because the demand fluctuates.

The auto dealerships, they get cars in.

They need places to park them in display spaces.

Sometimes there's greater demand for vehicle repair.

And so really the reason for the large yellow area is just to permit

the maximum flexibility possible for vehicles for sale or vehicles awaiting for repair.

And I'll get to this a little bit later in the presentation, but in a lot of cases it's really difficult to discern vehicles are awaiting repair compared to vehicles for sale.

Really the only way you can tell is whether or not the vehicle has license plates on it.

I have a picture of that a little later on so focusing on the the special exception here you can kind of see the in this image the the grade drop from Burkmaar and this is the Victorian Heights residential construction as the grade drops from this high point the water tower is right near this property and so this is this is one of the highest points in in this area so

What we're focusing on with this special exception is really the word visible.

It is nearly impossible, if not impossible, to eliminate visibility from every public right of way and from every residential property, especially with this development of Victorian heights.

And so that is why we are proposing, that's why we are requesting the exception because there are going to be places where the vehicles we're waiting repair will be visible.

This is just the view from, this is Woodburn Road.

We're looking over the Victorian Heights construction right now.

So we're basically at the highest point right near the water tower.

And we're looking over the site and this taller tree area is the highest point of the site, right adjacent to Burke Marr.

We updated our section that we included in the application to also include the grading for the Victorian Heights development.

This portion of the property of the Victorian Heights development is designated for multi-family dwellings and they are permitted to be a maximum of 60 feet in height and a maximum of four stories.

The finished floor elevation of those residential units is at 534.

So coming up from a 510 elevation of Berkmar Drive, we're going up a fairly steep slope.

And then we have a fairly large building at the top of that hill, which is going to have some type of vista entirely across this property.

So the elimination of visibility

even if we were to plant some trees on Berkmar would be impossible, especially from some of the higher units or taller units proposed as part of the Victorian Heights development.

And so here you can just kind of see the kind of, you know, 40-foot grade drop that we have across our site from Berkmar down to Route 29.

And so

about the vehicles awaiting repair and not being able to really discern the difference.

One item that I just really wanted to clarify is that this is not a body shop.

A body shop is a separate special use permit, and so all of the vehicles awaiting repair are at the shop for routine maintenance

Parts, They're Not Getting Body Work Done.

And here is a photo of another flow site in Albemarle County, where in this picture, there is both vehicles awaiting repair and vehicles for sale.

And the license plate is really the only way that you can discern the difference between the vehicles.

All the vehicles awaiting repair

really look in perfect condition and it's difficult to tell the difference.

So that is all that I have for you this evening and I am available for any questions that you might have.

Great, thank you.

Any questions from the commission?

I'll start with Ms.

Thank you, Michelle.

You talked about the fact that the building, the residential structure is being erected across the street would undoubtedly be able to look down on them and you couldn't screen it from that.

But I guess the question is, isn't the site also, isn't the ordinance intended to also screen just from people driving by?

And do you think that's also not an issue or it

It's immaterial.

Sure.

I think there will be, so what I will say is, as far as additional screening measures along Burk Mar, we're amenable to that.

That's, you know, especially with the multi-use path going across there, if that's going to enhance the pedestrian experience.

We'll be happy to add some more screening.

I think from 29, just given that the grade is going up, I think on certain Vistas on 29, you're going to be able to see vehicles on the lot in some areas.

Thank you.

Carrazana.

Thank you.

Actually, that was the point that I wanted to bring up, but there was an aerial that you had.

Can you guess that one?

So to the point that Ms.

Firehawk was bringing, if you look at your neighboring properties, they both have screening from the street.

So you have this buffer that while we agree, you're not going to prevent

people on the third, fourth floor, maybe even second floor to look down into the parking lot.

The street view is also part of how the ordinance is written and what it's trying to achieve.

So it seems like you already have some context there that you can bring into your site or maybe even keep some of the trees that are there.

I'm not sure how along the street edge.

We're definitely open to adding some screening, I think.

Difference with these two sites is that they were cut down much more than we're really stepping this development into the grade as we work up.

And there is kind of an existing berm in this area.

But we can certainly plant more landscaping and look at these.

Sure, thank you.

I guess my first question was around mitigation versus elimination, which we've been talking about the first two commissioners here.

Could you respond to Mr. Taggart's suggestion about rotating the bill?

And I was just curious, what was the design teams?

Sure.

So the long skinny building here is really because the vehicle's awaiting repair.

And again, this is just conceptual.

And so some of the pavement isn't shown perfectly.

But the long skinny building enables us to fit more bays.

And my next question, it might be for staff.

I'm not sure if I'll try it.

Is there a difference in a new body shot versus a vehicle maintenance garage?

Kind of what you're showing here.

Yes.

And what's that?

Are you referring to the special exception?

Commissioner Clayborne, there's a separate use in the zoning ordinance to speak to public garage.

I think that's what you're getting at is that there's body shop.

Okay.

This is

Okay, so I'll just make a comment.

Maybe it's for comp plan discussions or whatever it may be, but I think as we think about the future,

of these types of facilities.

We talked about it with the Tesla dealership.

I'm just wondering how many more times in the future we'll be giving up acres of asphalt just to have cars out there.

So when I see this, it reminds me of, really, it's a vehicle maintenance garage with a little side hustle of selling cars up front.

I don't want to be derogatory, but that's what it looks like here.

And so I'm just curious as we move into the future, what does that future look like, opposed to this having 300 cars parked on a sea of asphalt.

So nothing for you to do is just something for the commission to talk about a future date.

So I'm good.

Yes, so you've already heard a comment from my colleague about stormwater.

It seems like, you know, we talked about the visibility of the site from the road and from the potential apartments that are going there.

It occurs to me that even though our code doesn't really address this, that there is the view from those apartments down onto the tops of the buildings.

And there could be a potential opportunity there, you know, if you were to green that roof.

then you would provide something that's actually attractive looking down from those apartments.

And then you'd also provide a benefit to your buildings and also you'd get stormwater credit for that.

So that would be a really great way to provide a benefit to this space.

I know when I was in Stanton at the Jeep dealer getting my new vehicle, one of the things that I was also pleased about was that they had

that had solar panels.

So they were also selling electric vehicles, but they could also charge the vehicles that they were selling right there from the tops of their roof.

That's another thing that I don't know if you've considered, but that seems to me like that would be an amenity as well.

Right.

Points well taken.

We did call out some of our, we did call out our EV charging stations.

And so, I mean, I think we're going to see that a lot more and it's pretty much kind of mandatory for new auto dealerships at this point to kind of keep a diversified customer base.

And so,

Good.

Mr. Bivins.

Thank you, Chair.

I would recommend that you spend some time with your clients speaking, thinking about what my colleague here just said, because this particular manufacturer is actually moving heavy and fast to EVs, electric vehicles.

and so being able to sort of craft a place, their dealership in that vein and being able to present that to consumers, I think might give them a step up because the Hyundai and Kia are actually owning that area right now as far as design and thinking forward.

So I would sort of echo that.

So if we can go, oh good.

So we have a direct entrance off of 29 here.

This is closest to the Malloy property or to the Malloy Ford dealership.

So there will be two ways to access the property because I was noting on the two other dealerships or the three other dealerships that are in there, there are multiple ways that a client or a tow truck can get a vehicle into the space so that they're not always having to sort of pop down 29.

I noticed there is, will there be a sort of, I don't know the right words for that, I'm not a traffic person guy, will there be a deceleration lane?

Yeah, absolutely.

So you can kind of see, so we do have a taper, it's very faint here, but we have a taper drawn in here.

And, you know, as with any turn lane requirements, if it's required, it's required and you have to build it and there's no way around it.

And yeah, this, you know, fortunate

to kind of have the two access points, and especially an alternative option to come out on Berkmar.

Oh, how about that?

Okay, so then my other question on this is

If we can go to the back street, and I just want to clear out something, someone mentioned, you mentioned that there was going to be a multimodal pathway along there?

Yes.

Yep, there's a, is FACEQ funded just yet?

We actually have a VDOT funded project for shared use path.

There's already there.

I'd walk on the west side.

Sorry.

A sidewalk on the west side.

Okay.

Ryo.

Alright, that's helpful to know because I'm like, part of one of my pieces is why are we putting a...

Why are we requiring an applicant to put a path in when there's nothing east or west?

And why are they the only ones who have to put it in?

But thank you.

Yeah, this one all to me.

RIO all the way to Hollymead.

Oh, right?

So coming from the Hollywood Town Center right now, along Burkmore Drive, there's a shared use path that runs all the way down Burkmore, just behind the Sam's Club.

Thank you.

That's brilliant.

Thank you.

Toby, you're going to figure out a way to put some purple by the repair shop.

that you're not out of compliance and we don't have to set up people complaining that you have cars parked in there.

and I will say again that if I look at the Berkmar roadway, well, I think it's important to have some street-level screening opportunities there and sort of dress it up as people are walking up there or riding their bikes there.

I don't see how it's, I don't see why it would be reasonable for us to expect that something that's 500, got a 500-foot elevation should never see vehicles parked in front of it.

Thank you, Mr. Bivins.

The first question I had, I kind of brought up with staff already a little bit about stormwater runoff, particularly just knowing what's been happening in the neighborhoods across 29 is

as more impermeable surfaces happened on that side.

One is if there's any possibilities of permeable surfaces on the construction.

Yeah, so, you know, as far as imperfect surface, you know, that's definitely a possibility.

And it's in the realm, it's in the toolkit, right, to manage stormwater compliance.

And so we don't have, you know, we haven't done any formal engineering or really gotten to that point yet.

But as far as, you know, all of our analysis and for quantity and quality treatment will be done

Yeah, that is one of those things just this last weekend with the strong storm.

The banks were overflowing behind Woodbrook.

With the visibility of cars awaiting repair, I was curious if I could imagine myself on the fourth story of

of Victorian Heights and kind of gazing to the east and looking down maybe glancing at Malloy forward or Malloy Chevy or Route 29.

Will you be able to see the cars at either of the Malloy's from there?

Okay, yeah.

And, and so, I mean, I think what I was hearing earlier from my fellow commissioners was, yeah, let's make sure we screen from Berkmar so that people walking, you know, it's like a nice sort of wooden path.

But the idea of screening with, you know, 150 foot tall trees seems a little impractical.

Solar panels on the roof make is a nice idea.

Rooftop mural.

No, I joke, but

Panels, panels and nice ideas.

That was my question.

Now I'm just talking.

All right, thanks.

I just had a couple of comments slash maybe questions.

One is I was a little confused as to why you would not, just out of the gate, say we're going to screen the parking on Berkmar Drive.

Well, we still have to meet the requirements of the code.

So there's still parking lot screening requirements in 32.79 of the code.

Yeah.

We have, we might need, I mean, we might, I don't know if we have exactly every shrub shown, you know, we might need to show some additional shrubs specifically along these spaces right here.

But there's, you know, there's the requirement for screening of parking areas in the code.

So you would be willing to modify this plan to show more screening on the Berkmore Drive side, similar to what you've done on

Yeah, certainly.

Okay, great.

And I get the whole orientation of the building.

In fact, truth is, if you were to turn that building 90 degrees, you might be looking at the back of a building if you're driving along Berkman Drive.

So that may not be that much better than looking at cars, potentially.

The other question I guess I had was, or it's more of an observation, if you think about the fact that I'm guessing based on the grades that this parking is going to be relatively level but perched higher, and there's an opportunity to create I think a series of

Planting Islands, you've got one shown already in there.

You know, if you could do a couple of those on the interior, which actually is in part of the staff report, then there's a way to, you know, less rely on the perimeter buffer along the road and actually benefit from having layering of landscape and maybe even more interesting to look at.

So the last thing I'll mention is that, if assuming, we are also going to put forward the recommended comments that staff provided as part of the special exception, which is on page five.

Number three says providing additional landscaping, including evergreens along Burkmore Drive and at the perimeter and interior of the parking areas, which we just talked about.

I would ask that we add to that providing additional and preserving existing landscaping, including evergreens and so on.

OK, maybe wherever possible or something to the effect.

And actually, if you did it, it may look terrible and you may have to put new stuff back.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I think, you know, when we design sites, we often, you know, try to, if we can get the tree canopy up by preserving existing trees, then absolutely we're going to do that.

I think on this particular site, and also just given how the multi-use path is going to come in, where

We're going to have a lot of trouble preserving any existing.

Cool.

Thank you.

That's great.

Any other questions from the commission?

All right.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

I'll open it up to comments from the public.

Is there anyone attending this evening who would like to speak to this issue?

None.

We'll check and see.

Is there anyone online?

No.

No?

All right.

Well, I don't think you have anything to respond to, but I'll offer the opportunity to do that if you'd like.

All right.

Great.

Thanks.

With that, I will close the public hearing and open it up to the commission for discussion.

So I have some comments.

You know, I think that the, you know, particularly since there's going to be a public path there along Berkmar.

I mean, I think that the quality of that vegetation is important.

I mean, I think one could put

One could easily put some really ugly, non-native, you know, thugas out there or, you know, but really, you know, putting some quality of native landscaping that provides value right along, you know, where people are going to be walking.

So Commissioner Murray, would you recommend any changes to page five?

Well, everyone else is commenting.

Thank you.

I would just sort of come along on that and say, well, I can appreciate everyone would like to have a really lovely multi-use path, but you need to look north and south on that road.

And I don't know if you look at the existing buildings which are there, it would be

again I'm looking at sort of that you know my colleague talks about equity I'm looking at why would you do that to one building to one to one site when if we look at the the the credit union site it's just gotta can I have a sidewalk in front of it if you look at the place the dermatological site it doesn't it just has a slope there and so if what we're suggesting and if you look at the other if you look at

the real estate place there if what we're suggesting is that when the county does this project is there a way for the county to engage with those property owners so there's some uniform actions as there's a uniform approach to it then I think that's actually a very positive thing but if what we're going to do is to say to this particular applicant no you've got to do your 200 feet has got to be

look like it's, I don't know what, a parkway, but you have the property in front of it, looks like it's just a driveway going into some asphalt, and the property on the other side is going to, so I'm just trying to figure out how do we bring some, some equal treatment to that area, instead of label, instead of pushing it all on this particular one, because they're coming to us here.

I just offer a thought on that.

I think

I get what you're saying, and I'm all about equity.

I think what, and maybe it's not true necessarily here, but since, you know, the way we look at each site, right, every, every site stands on its own, because every site is different.

And so in this case, the potential difference in the grades, the height, the visibility, etc.

might

actually cause it to be treated differently than the adjoining parcels that have already been built up possibly.

So I hear what you're saying and I just don't know enough about the final grading and about the setbacks and about how far away that building is going to be from the property line.

To me, it's a matter of sort of setting a standard.

No, I absolutely appreciate that, but I'm also looking for uniformity.

So that would be the piece of that.

When you go behind Walmart, when you go behind the

the, guess what is that?

That's a Chevrolet dealer that you would have a common treatment all the way to Berkmar.

And I don't know how you do that, given that they've already, they've already developed up to the road.

So I'm just, how do you, you know, this whole thing, we've talked about this before, what are the obligations of the last in developer, right?

Does that one, when no one else is going to be forced to do anything, what are we forcing the last in developer to do?

And I don't, you know, I just,

No, I think it's a good point.

I think in this case, technically, there's not a forcing.

It's more since it's a special exception.

We're not even voting on it.

We're at least setting a standard.

Okay.

And then there can be some flexibility within that.

But I went well taken.

Richard Moore.

Anything?

I'm sorry, I guess I was kind of random.

Not a whole lot of you on my monologuing to our guest, just that in terms of, again, if you can see a lot of cars parked nearby from the fourth floor, you know, adding a few more parked cars does not aesthetically bother me in the same way.

You know, again, I think, and I think I saw some of our planning staff already take notes about just the water and so I'm just driving that beating that dead horse.

But no, I mean, yeah, that's about all.

Great.

I have a question for staff actually and then a comment.

So when we recently, this is relevant to this application, but when we recently looked at an application from Home Depot for outdoor storage at the mall and they had to add in a whole bunch of treed islands because they were redeveloping the parking lot and they had to adhere to different standards than when the shopping mall was built.

So wouldn't there be a requirement for, does that not also apply here?

They're not redeveloping, but they would have to put in the same standards for treeed islands in the parking lot, or is that only because it was for shopping?

with this site, this kind of an overlay of outdoor display.

Right, but there was all this, there was additional treat islands within the parking lot that were not to screen the outdoor display per se.

Right.

Margaret Maliszewski again.

With the final site plan, all those requirements for standard landscaping in and around the parking areas would apply.

And we've been looking at this for a while.

I don't remember.

I think we did do the calculations.

There's, you know, one for every 10 parking spaces.

Okay, right.

Okay, that helps because it's just a big blob on this drawing.

And so it's hard to understand where would all that stuff go?

It's not the site plan yet.

This is a concept plan, right?

Okay.

Okay, thank you.

And then, so my only comment is really more like, if we just were fishes, I wish that

This development would take advantage of the fact that, first of all, they're replacing a lot of trees with a lot of pavement.

And we've already talked about stormwater this evening.

And in fact, that's why I recommended denial of request to double the impervious service of a building at our last hearing.

But I would love if this was a site that had permeable pavement, not pavers, but pavement.

It would be the model

Parking Lot that would be the greenest parking lot on all of Groud 29 and I would market as such and I would personally shop there because of that.

So I'm just saying there are a lot of green-minded people in this county and I think that here's a chance to show that you were doing something momentous.

This kind of parking can be parked on by pickup trucks, by parked cars.

You just can't drive massive delivery vehicles on it like

and, you know, 18 wheelers and cement trucks.

However, you can keep your travel ways as the regular asphalt and the parking areas as permeable.

So anyway, just saying if you wanted to be innovators, there was a lot of movement in Charlottesville to create permeable pavement at the time that one of the limitations was there was not a vacuum truck because it did need to be vacuumed twice a year because sand and grit gets in the pores of the permeable pavement.

But the city bought a vacuum truck.

There are other vacuum trucks around.

It is not impossible to maintain those.

You don't have the freeze thaw in the winter.

And so as a result, your parking lots last longer because there's no cracking, because there's no freezing, because all the water goes through.

So that was my very short soapbox on permeable pavement.

But I'm just looking at the comments about stormwater and looking at this massive amount of change of land cover from trees.

Thank you.

Yeah, just a couple of comments.

I think in terms of what our agency is in this, which is really just determining whether outdoor storage or display and or sales is consistent with the applicable design guidelines.

I'm certainly supportive of that.

I will say, unrelated, it breaks my heart to see this Greenfield site just become a sea of asphalt for a business model that might make events will be relevant.

in our lifetime.

I have a seven and a three-year-old.

I doubt they'll even probably buy cars or their self-driving cars now that already exist.

And so to do all of that for 300-part cars on Black asphalt, pains my heart.

But whatever it's worth, kudos to the innovation comment.

I would be supportive of that.

But yeah, just don't think this business model will exist another decade or so.

You know, I have to say this, while I would love to believe that we're going to have hydrogen or EV take up as quickly as possible.

I actually don't believe that's going to happen.

I believe we live just far enough for people to remain uncomfortable unless they have 500 mile ranges to them.

And so I agree with my colleague.

I think that we're, but I think that this is really still going to be a nice community.

And that we've got to figure out a way how we sort of approach that in a balanced way.

And so I think some of my colleagues suggestions about what to run off, about green roofs, about

Solar panels will in fact help to sort of set the standard for guard dealerships.

All right, awesome.

Good comments.

Sir.

You asked me if I had any changes to the conditions that I put forth here.

And so I do have one change that I think would would improve this.

It's just one word says landscaping shown on the plan may be required in excess of minimum requirements.

I'm sorry, where are you?

Oh, number, number.

So number.

Your mic a little closer.

Sorry.

under the number four was his final site approval subject to this as landscaping shown the plan may be required to be in excess of the minimum requirements.

I would just propose that we change the word may to will.

What?

To will.

Mr. Chair, I'd remind the commission of something that Commissioner Clayborne brought up, which is that review is limited to determining whether the outdoor storage display and or sales is consistent with the applicable design guidelines.

As you may know, vehicle sales is a by right use in the highway commercial district.

If I could add, if the concern is about the view from Burke Marr and the extra screening there, that really is associated with the special exception and not the special permit.

The other thing just to keep in mind while I understand the spirit of your comment is not wanting to limit the flexibility the ARB has to work with the applicant to design what they feel is appropriate.

So they may not feel that adding excess landscape for whatever reason that we don't know because we don't have the details is warranted.

Well, just expanding upon the spirit of it.

I think general, some way of, and of course, these meeting minutes will be captured.

But I think that the point being is that it would be nice to see something that goes above and beyond the status quo here.

And it's between them and the Airbnb as to what that is.

All right, any other discussion?

And if not, would anybody like to make a motion?

And if they do make a motion, the only thing I could do this after in discussion, but I would just suggest that we add

Let's see, under the special exception where it says the staff will include our comments in the transmittal summary to the Board of Supervisors, I would just ask that we add the note on page five, number three, providing additional and where possible, preserving existing landscaping, including evergreens along Berkmore Drive, et cetera, et cetera.

I choose to recommend approval.

Rather, I move to recommend approval of the special needs permit, SP 2023-00021 with the conditions laid out in the staff report and also transmitting to the board our comments about landscaping.

Second.

Any further discussion?

I mean, we know that we've talked through those things, but you're I was when I said our comments about landscaping.

I was referring to your excellent change.

Got it.

OK, just wanted to clarify that.

Great.

So we have a motion.

We have a second.

Any more discussion?

Can somebody send me what that ended up being?

Sure.

I can do that.

Okay.

Ms.

Firehawk.

Hi.

Mr. Clayborne.

Hi.

Mr. Bivins.

Hi.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Just a quick point of order with the special exception.

Okay, so noted.

All right, with that, let us move on to the second public hearing, SP 2024-3, all of that preschool enrollment increase.

Hello, everyone.

My name is Sid Schof.

I'm a senior planner with the Planning Division of Albemarle County's Community Development Department.

Tonight, I'll be giving staff's presentation for a special use permit, SB 2024-3, all of that preschool increase enrollment.

This is a special use permit request to amend an existing special use permit to increase the total enrollment from a maximum of 24 students to 48 students.

The subject property is approximately 9.19 acres and located west of the city of Charlottesville at 2575 Garth Road It is owned rural areas and home to the Olivet Presbyterian Church The comprehensive plan designates it as rural areas

The site has been home to the church since the early 1900s.

This site includes a fellowship hall, Sunday in preschool classrooms, a cemetery, and other church-related facilities.

A special use permit was approved in 2015 for a preschool with a maximum enrollment of 24 students.

The surrounding properties are zoned rural areas and consist of single-family residential uses.

The applicant is proposing to increase the maximum enrollment from 24 students to 48 students.

Additionally, the church is proposing to increase the time of operation from 8 a.m.

to 1 p.m.

to 8 a.m.

to 2 p.m.

to allow for extended pickup time for students.

There are no proposed changes to the site itself, and this strong shows the current student drop-off flow.

Additionally, per the applicant, they have enough classroom capacity to accommodate and increase enrollment to 48 students.

This special use permit application was reviewed under the factors for consideration as outlined in the zoning ordinance.

Staff believes that the proposed special use permit will not be detrimental to adjacent parcels, will not change the character of the nearby area, will continue to be in harmony with the rural areas zoning district, and is consistent with the comprehensive plan.

There are two recommended conditions for this application.

The first one is amending the previously approved condition from 24 students to 48 students.

And the second condition is for hours of operation as requested by the applicant.

And some there are three factors favorable.

The first is consistent with review criteria for special use permits contained in the zoning ordinance.

The second is the proposal provides a preschool slash daycare option for community members who live and work in the area.

And third, no detrimental impacts to adjoining properties are anticipated.

With that being said, staff recommends approval with the conditions as recommended in the staff report.

Great.

That was probably record time.

Thank you.

I just have one.

When you were talking with the applicant, obviously this is my district and we already went through this once.

Did you ask them, like, is this it?

Like, are you guys coming back for 62 in two years?

I think that's an answer the applicant can give you.

Okay, I just don't want them to have to come back every 18 months for 12 more and 12 more.

It seems silly.

Any other questions?

All right.

With that, I will open the public hearing and ask for the applicant's presentation.

If you have one, don't feel obligated.

Good evening.

My name is Seth Lovell.

I serve as the pastor and head of staff at Olivet Presbyterian Church.

I've been on staff since 2010.

I've served as the pastor and head of staff since for the last four and a half years.

We've had a preschool now, as Sid noted, for about 10 years.

We regret not having asked for more enrollment when we did this about 10 years ago.

We are back and we hope it is for the final time.

We've done an assessment of our building and what we think that the preschool could grow towards.

When we began, we began with one classroom, eight students, two teachers.

It has grown exponentially.

We have a wait list.

And really the reason we're here tonight is we don't want to have students on a wait list.

We want students that live nearby, families that live nearby to have a pre-K option in the community.

would also just add, we're very grateful to sit in the staff.

They've been incredibly helpful.

Great.

That's it.

Excellent.

Thank you.

Any questions for the applicant?

If I could understand, if we could, oh, can you go sit to the classroom layout?

This is all very precipitous.

School and preschool area 2023.

Oh, it's in your packet.

Thank you.

So let's just do it.

So in your packet, you have four or five class 004, two, three class 010, K1 class 011, and pre-class K class 014, right?

Correct.

And so I'm trying to understand from the narrative,

Where are all the kids going?

Where are these young kids going?

Because it says that, and maybe it's just a notation, and if so, I would just recommend that you change your notation on this before you go to the supervisors, because it indicates on your page one of the proposal that there are two two-year classes, two-year-old classes, and that there's one three, one four, and then one pre-K.

So for the two year olds, they just because of age and ability to be in a pre case setting, they do not meet daily.

So those two classes, there's like a, you know, an A class and a B class that meet at different times throughout the week.

I would recommend that you do that because when I went back to your to the narrative on your I can see the confusion.

So right.

So in the preschool model, there's only the pre-k is actually there Monday through Friday.

They're the older kids five days a week for the other classes.

They're tiered.

I would just recommend you do that because that would add a bit of clarity to it.

And then the other question I have, if you if you're doubling your capacity by 100%, can you can your

We actually just put a brand new playground in.

Yeah, that's what I needed you to say.

Awesome.

Thank you, sir.

Quick question about the time duration being open.

Do you ever foresee in the future being open longer than 2 p.m.

for working families?

Right.

We have explored that possibility of having extended daycare and really feel like that the

Yeah, the scope of the mission we're called to is for a true preschool and that when you move into that full daycare that you really need to be open until after 5pm.

It would completely change the staffing model and the needs that we have and we are we have a wonderful preschool committee.

They have explored that and just do not foresee that as something that we would consider.

The reason we did consider it is because we do want to be a preschool that works for working families.

We actually have scholarship funds available.

What we have found is just where we are located.

Yeah, no, thank you.

It's tough.

I live the struggle.

I've got three kids myself.

Yeah.

Any other comments or questions?

I just had one question.

Yes.

So occupancy would be maxed out at 48.

Correct.

Got it.

Because that's what I've always thought is if we're gonna, I mean, you know, when it was 24, you actually had the ability to have 48.

because of the space and because of the, and this is probably before your time, but just having that, just why not go to 48 day one?

What's the maximum capacity and just start there?

And even if you don't fill it, that's fine, but you have it permitted so that it's available.

Yeah.

Great.

Thank you.

Yeah, you should.

Thank you all.

All right.

Any questions from the public?

I'm sorry.

Any comments from the public?

All right.

Seeing none.

Any online?

No, sir.

No.

Okay.

With that, I will close the public hearing.

Bring it back to the commission for any comments.

No comments.

I would care to.

Real quick.

There's a, I just noticed a typo in the recommended approval.

It says SB 2024 with a four at the end.

Denied.

Any further discussion?

Yes.

Mr. Bivins?

Aye.

Ms.

Thank you.

All right, with that, we'll move on to SP 2024-5, tandem French school enrollment increase.

Oh, hey, I'm back.

Hey.

Good.

Been a while.

Thank you.

My name is Sid Schof and I'm a senior planner with the planning division.

Tonight I'm giving staff's presentation for special use permit, SP 2024-5, tandem friend school, increased enrollment.

This is a special use permit request to amend an existing special use permit to increase student enrollment from 250 students to 400 students.

Subject property is approximately 24.51 acres and located south of the city of Charlottesville at 279 Tandem Lane.

It is owned R1 residential and has been home to the Tandem Friends School since 1972.

The comprehensive plan designates it as neighborhood density residential.

As mentioned on the last slide, this site has been home to the school since 1972.

The site contains multiple buildings and athletic fields associated with the school.

There have been nine approved special use permits since 1972, four of which have been related to increasing capacity or enrollment at the school.

The last student enrollment increase was approved in 2014 for a maximum enrollment of 250 students.

The last special use permit that was approved was in 2020 for an outdoor pavilion.

Additionally, a two-story middle school building with a 15,000 square foot footprint was approved in 2016 and has not been constructed yet.

The surrounding properties are mostly institutional areas.

Monticello High School is located to the north across Mill Creek Drive, to the west is the Monticello Fire Rescue Station, and then to the south are county school board owned properties that are zoned R1.

These parcels are largely wooded with the single family home located on one of these properties.

In the greater surrounding area, there are two Albemarle County Schools, which includes Monticello High School, Mountain V Elementary School, and then a future elementary school that will be off of Founders Place.

This is the applicant's proposal.

It's a request to amend previously approved special use permit SP 2019-7 to permit an increase in student enrollment from 250 to 400 students.

According to the applicant, the current facilities on the site have a capacity for up to 350 students.

Once that capacity is met, the applicant will need to construct the approved two-story, 15,000 square foot footprint middle school building to accommodate additional students to the school.

And that's shown as yellow on the screen.

There were two factors favorable.

The first is consistent with the review criteria for special use permits contained in the zoning ordinance.

The second is the use is consistent with the southern and western neighborhoods master plan.

There was one factor unfavorable and that is the proposed increase in enrollment will generate additional traffic on Avon Street.

Mill Creek Drive and Scottsville Road.

Although there will be an increase in the number of trips in the area, it was a minimal addition to the existing trip volumes.

The amount of trips that would be generated did not pass a threshold that would warrant additional transportation conditions to offset the impact.

There are five total conditions, three are carryover from the previously approved SP, and condition number three was revised to reflect the change in maximum school enrollment.

And then the fifth condition was added to address the traffic impacts to the area so that student pickup and drop off times must be staggered by 15 minutes or more with pickup and drop off times at Monticello High School, which is across the street.

Staff recommends approval with the conditions as recommended in the staff report.

Great.

Thank you again.

Any questions from the commission?

I have one I'll throw out while you all are thinking, unless you're just, you don't have any.

Just a quick question.

I'm curious how you may not know the answer, but how does the addition of 200 students equate to, in terms of traffic generation, trip generation, how does that equate to, say, a single family home or two?

Townhouses, for example.

Like if you, I mean, I'm just, this is dumb math, but if you were to say, well, four people live in a house on average, it's 50 houses, right?

Commissioner Missel, Kevin McDermott.

I'm the deputy director of planning here in Albemarle County.

We use the ITE trip generation manual to determine, to

Estimate Future Trips.

Typically, single family residence is around eight trips per home, daily trips per home.

And then if you go down to apartments and, you know, town homes, apartments that get slightly smaller, I think maybe down to around six or so is for a single family apartment, six daily trips.

And I think that was it's about 200 additional trips.

Is that you have that number?

Sorry, Sid.

Yeah, it's contained in the staff report.

I couldn't find it quickly.

Got it.

Okay.

That's helpful perspective.

Thank you.

Mr. McDermott, before you sit, I'll keep you up there for a little bit.

Well,

A little background so that everyone's aware that we did just get a traffic impact analysis from the Southern feeder pattern school.

We did not require tandem to do a traffic impact analysis because their impacts were so small.

So looking at that, they did, the Southern feeder pattern did assess the current conditions there and everything was operating fine during the peak hours in the during the start and end of the school days.

both Monticello High School and Tandem Fund, a police officer to direct traffic at that intersection.

So is there a rating for that intersection that you know of at the Minnesota?

I've got the Southern feeder pattern assessment right here.

And it looks like with the addition of the Southern feeder pattern school and background growth, the 2026 future conditions at that intersection

are really all A's and B's for level of service.

So at that intersection, it's fine.

That doesn't include the addition of the trips for tandem, but the number's not significant.

So I don't think it would really, it would bring it down below, maybe to a C at worst.

Chair, may I keep him there for a second?

Please, yeah.

That exit was not analyzed for the Southern feeder pattern.

Yes.

Yeah, I have a follow up question to these but I'll let you go sir because you're the chair.

So my concern here is that I was okay.

I was on the commission when we voted to put the phantom middle school in the location it is now, but I'm no longer good with the decision because blocking, having the school where it is will block the circle going to the exit on the other side.

Now, maybe there's a way to the site that I believe it is since they own all that property on that quadrant there.

Right now, if they're going to put the phantom middle school in that, that closes the loop.

and I thought I read, I think I read in SIDS report that that is an exit and certainly when you go up there, when you go into the property, it feels like an exit and when I've been there for certain things over the years, that was the easiest way to leave the property.

If the only way in and out when the Phantom Middle School is built is to go in and out the place, the part that's right across from Monticello High, I think there's gonna be a significant traffic so I would recommend

that they continue to hold that circle, the circle to be able to go out there as opposed to going out across from Monticello.

Can I ask you a question about that?

I'm not sure I'm following you.

Is that what you're referring?

Yes.

Do you see where Sid has?

It's got the little yellow thing there.

If you look off to like five o'clock off of that rectangle, that road right there, that's a road that takes you to whatever that is.

Right.

It takes you to Middle Creek, the Middle Creek road.

And so what's lovely about that.

And so for me, I was fine with it because I've used that exit.

And then now what you're going to do is put up the Phantom Middle School there.

Yes, I increase census and push everyone out the front way.

I have I cannot support.

I'm with you.

Got it.

Thank you.

But it's never been built.

I just had one question for staff.

This is about, for example, I'm just curious, the split, and part of this I know is a personal problem for tandem.

If they don't do this, they'll have traffic issues, but the splitting of the cost of Monticello to pay a police officer, those kinds of things, there's nothing that is required by the county, right?

And when we talk about increasing the enrollment to 400,

But at 350, a couple of things kick in.

One is they need to build that phantom building.

How do we track their enrollment?

I believe that's taken care of with zoning and the appropriate zoning clearances.

But yeah, you're correct.

So once they hit 350 students, they would be at capacity with the current buildings on the site.

As he referenced to the Phantom Middle School, that was approved for the special use permit before they need to submit another site plan to actually construct that.

So there is a possibility if they do submit another site plan for this middle school, there could be reconfiguration of

that road potentially.

Thank you.

I can ask the applicant.

Great.

Any other questions for staff?

All right.

Thank you both.

We'll open it up to the applicant or their page.

I think you know the drill.

10 minutes, one minute warning.

Good evening.

My name is Kendra Moon, and I'm here on behalf of Tannin Prince School.

I've got three of the school administrators joining me tonight, so they're available for questions as needed.

I'll probably breeze through some of the background that Sid has already covered and spend some more time on the traffic portion since I think that'll be most of the topic of conversation this afternoon.

So Tandem Friends School was established in 1970.

They're an independent day school serving grades 5 through 12.

Their current enrollment is exactly at the 250 student limit.

They have been extremely diligent to stick with that to the point where they've turned students away, even in the case of two siblings having to turn one student, one sibling away to stay to that limit.

They are

Let's see, requesting to amend the special use permit.

And as mentioned, there have been four in the past for increase enrollment and as Karen mentioned earlier with the preschool what we're trying to do with this aspirational 400 student limit.

is not have to come back every few years to ask for a few more students.

So we're not expecting 400 students tomorrow.

There are about 30 students on the waitlist currently.

So that's the initial growth that would be expected.

And then the 400 just allows them room to grow.

Like they've already gotten the middle school building location approved with a previous special use permit.

So they've gotten

Sort of an idea of how they would grow, but it's not needed at this time.

Their current facilities have room for about a hundred more students.

There are empty seats in the classroom.

All they need is more staff.

And this special use permit.

Amendment to be approved.

So there's a public need for additional capacity in Albemarle public schools, especially high schools.

So on the next slide, I'll zoom in a little bit so you can see.

But I want to point out that approximately half of tandem students currently live within Albemarle, and so would presumably be going to Albemarle County public schools.

About 90 live within Charlottesville.

and approximately 55 students, at least in the past, this is 2023-2024 school year data.

55 students are zoned for the Southern feeder pattern school district and ultimately Monticello High School.

So they would be on this road generating traffic here regardless.

So just to zoom in on some of those numbers, Albemarle especially is extremely overcapacity.

The red is the number of students that they're overcapacity currently and then projected out for the next 10 years.

So Monticello is right on the border, but just to give you an idea.

Some of the context said covered.

This is surrounded by institutional uses.

It already has a special use permit, has been in existence for a long time.

So it's compatible with the surrounding uses and everyone used to the school being there.

As Sid mentioned as well, there's, well, two currently and planned for a third school in the vicinity.

So the future elementary school location would be just a few properties down.

This is their existing site.

So two entrances off of Mill Creek.

This is the Northern entrance I'll be referring to.

They've got an administrative building, classroom buildings spread throughout.

athletic facilities and parking and then, you know, future middle school in this vicinity.

So the concept plan that was approved with 2015 and so I understand concerns about the access.

I do want to point out this was approved to to close that that second access but also tandem wants to keep it

if they can as well.

It's a benefit to them.

But this building, should they ever need it, should they get to that 350 student limit, they will be required to go through the site plan process, erosion and sediment control, stormwater.

Anticipated impacts since we're not really proposing an expansion at any future expansion that would be needed will go through proper stormwater management.

The biggest impact really is traffic.

Their current circulation patterns, as mentioned, there's a police officer in the morning and afternoons during the pick up and drop off times to help control this intersection.

Most of the traffic, well, all of the traffic enters through this northern entrance, and most of the traffic leaves through this entrance.

maybe misunderstood.

They do allow cars to exit in the morning and the afternoon, but during the day, this is closed off.

They put cones there just so that pedestrians can safely walk through the site and not worry about cars.

But so they have some flexibility in their internal circulation patterns.

School starting end times.

So related to traffic, I think the

The pick up and drop off window is about 30 minutes.

The school start and end times are already staggered from the schools in the vicinity, but they would keep them that way with the special use permit.

So the school starts usually around 8.30, except for Fridays, but I'll speak a little more to that.

So it's 25 minutes staggered in the morning from Monticello High School across the road.

And then

significantly staggered from Mountain View Elementary School off of Avon.

And especially in the afternoon, they're only 10 minutes apart from Monticello High School, but many students stay after school for activities so it's not as concentrated traffic to the site at that time.

And the future elementary school is expected to have the same hours as Mountain View, at least I'm assuming.

As Kevin spoke a little bit too, there was a traffic impact analysis prepared for the new elementary school and it found that the current intersections in the area were all operating at acceptable levels of service and were projected to remain that way in the future.

Trip Generation.

So I have the table of projected trips from ITE, but I want to point out this is based off of two data points and projected.

So it's to be taken with a grain of salt.

If you're if you're plugging in your numbers based off of two data points, it's not going to be super accurate.

But I do have actual trip counts from tandem.

They have staff members out on site every morning, every afternoon.

and Todd, who's here, has counted that he knows everyone that comes through.

He knows how many people are coming and going.

So about 385 trips per day currently as opposed to what's projected currently is 620.

So this is significantly less than I.T.E.

would say.

And then in the future,

were projecting 616 trips per day, so significantly less than what's shown in IT.

And the traffic impact analysis that was performed corroborates this because they had counts at 160 peak morning trips as opposed to the 214 estimated.

Just I looked up the safety of this intersection, crashes in the last eight years,

None of them seem to be directly correlated with the time of pickup and drop-off.

There's one that could potentially be associated at 9, 10 a.m.

If they start school at 8.30, so that's a bit of a stretch, but just

just showing you what I found.

And then last slide is a snapshot of the intersection in the morning at peak drop-off time.

This was taken at like 8.27 a.m.

So this is peak traffic.

Here's the policeman flagging the intersection.

So this was helpful for myself just to understand

What does this traffic actually look like?

And I actually have a quick video, but I don't know if it'll play.

Does it play?

Let's see.

Okay, so this I can replay it too.

This is five minutes sped up into 15 seconds.

But just to give you an idea of the flow of traffic, it flows pretty well.

There's maybe a one minute period where some cars are backed up.

And so I'll just play it one more time.

I have 10 seconds left.

But this was helpful, you know, for me, I was curious as well, what does this traffic actually look like?

Yeah.

Perfect time.

Thank you.

All right.

Any questions for the applicant?

I want to know how much they pay that officer.

Not enough.

Good answer.

Any questions, Mr. Bivins?

I think I understand from Albemarle GIS that the road that comes down at South, the South exit is not actually on your property, on your client's property.

It's owned by something called the Nameless One.

Hi, I'm Michelle Schlesinger.

I'm the Associate Head of Operations from Tandem Friend School, and this is Whitney Thompson, the Head of School at Tandem Friend School.

It's a good question.

The property, the exit that comes out that is held by the Nameless Corporation, that is a property that is being held for Tandem.

If you have the other map with the parcels on it, Tandem also has another property

Thank you.

So on your trip counts, forget where you had three.

XT.

Yeah.

Five.

Is that just students' traffic to drop off and pick up students?

Those trip counts include staff and students.

Total.

Yes.

And Sherry, before you leave, step away.

So do you understand my concern about, as your consultant said, it was different when we thought, well, when I thought, because I voted yes for this, that there were 200 people who were going to be there?

Now you're saying you put basically another 150 on the piece of property.

And one of the things that I've become very concerned with about schools recently is having one way in and one way out.

Things happen.

Unfortunate things happen.

and so the many times that I've been to the property for events there for things like that, I was so pleased that you were one of the few schools that had a second way to get out of there in case something went down.

And so while I wasn't concerned when it was like 150, that's not to say that I don't have a concern for 150 souls, but I do become concerned in today's environment.

and with an increased census there to restrict yourselves unnecessarily since you have land held by the one who shall not be named.

Since you have land that allows you to put a road in front of the building which has yet to be built.

Would you like me to comment?

I think we share that same concern and knowing that we would need to come back to the county and also go through the site plan process again, likely the shape and how that building ultimately would look like would not look like it would or as it did when it was initially proposed.

Great.

Not for the applicant, but just in general, could we also require that second entrance?

Could we not?

The impact, it's germane to the impact.

The impact is the additional students and the additional traffic.

I mean, it could be a condition of approval.

I mean, I would note that the current conditions talk about being in general accord with a submitted site plan.

So that would need to be altered, as was pointed out, that was approved with a prior SP.

However, they worked it out because it does seem like they have some flexibility on the site.

They could also go a little taller in their building.

I don't know.

I just want to make sure you may you may know this already, but I want to make sure there's no misunderstanding.

There would still be alternative fire access.

but you're just talking about general being able to, okay, okay.

I think we were trying to honor the idea of not coming back over and over again about little things, and since this had already been approved, we kind of thought the kind of concern that you just raised, which we definitely agree with, would get wrapped into that process at that time when we, if we ever do, reach 350 students, which is not anytime soon.

So assuming that concern would be the same, it could be raised during that process if we don't feel like adding something now.

I'm asking questions.

Thank you for that.

I'm anticipating that when they come forward for their site, it doesn't come back to us.

Yeah.

Well, you just made it.

I think that was it.

May I add some information?

There we go.

So the first condition as Andy was referencing, this is a carryover from the previously approved SP.

Development shall be in general accord with the concept plan.

And so A through E are major elements that cannot be changed.

And so the building size, including height, may not be changed in the location of buildings.

So if we were to move forward with redesigning that building, they would need to amend this SP.

So I run into this as an applicant in the past.

So that word, general accord, right?

Those two words.

Francis McCall, Deputy Zoning Administrator.

You are correct, Mr. Missel.

We would have to take that into consideration.

If they propose that, as far as that minor change, we would take that into consideration and see if that is minor enough.

Even with the orientation shown on there, it's still something that could be minor.

So we have to make that evaluation when they make that proposal.

If that does shift and it opens up the ability to keep that entrance there, then we could definitely consider that.

I'm trying to figure out how to, because we all seem like we're aligned.

The question is, how do we make this as simple as possible for you all in the future so you're not back here saying we decided to move the building 20 feet and

For all good reasons, we said, well, that's not generally in cord with your plan.

So I'm wondering if there's a way to craft a, I don't know if I'd call it a condition or a recommendation that rides with this, that then is seen when the site plan comes forward that reminds staff that, oh, that's right, we agree that it might be beneficial to slide that building around.

So one suggestion and obviously I'm open to.

suggestions from the staff would be to add a condition stipulating that secondary egress onto Mill Creek Drive must be provided, something to that effect.

And then it would be up to the applicant site review process and so forth to determine where that secondary access might be.

Matter of fact, as the applicant has pointed out, they own property that all goes down onto around 20 Scottsville Road as well.

So perhaps, again, depending on the site plan process,

what VDOT might approve.

The secondary access might be onto onto Route 20 directly.

And to just just to be clear, the reason that this is

that we would be adding this is because we're going from 250 to 400.

I mean, it's tied directly to the request.

It's directly tied to the request.

I'm preaching to the choir here.

I just want to make sure everybody understands.

It's not like, because it feels a little awkward to be changing a previously approved special user pressure.

What I'm saying is, if someone had come in 2019 and said, we're going to go to 400, because at that point I would have said, how are you going to move 400 people in and out of there in the case of a crisis?

So at that time, I don't recall that there was an increase in census at that time.

I think it was, there was a conversation, could they have a multi-use

a multi-use pavilion so that they can do events and things like that, which didn't impact that exit.

In fact, it made sense to me, given that exit, now what you're doing is you're shaping the senses of that campus.

That's why I raised it.

If I could, it sounds like there's maybe an added condition being suggested that I think is widely shared to preserve secondary egress from the property period.

Oh, I see what you're saying.

Right.

Yeah.

I've been thinking here.

Yeah.

Can I make a suggestion, please?

So one C, location of buildings, maybe a comma that after that, with the exception of the middle school, which maybe moves to promote a secondary access.

Yeah.

Nicely done.

Okay.

So I don't think we're proposing that they have to keep that exit.

So I'm not sure that we need to get into this, if we just say that a second means of egress or exit from the property is required.

Yeah, although I think if the trick is, if we're kind of in discussion too, but it's okay, we're still asking questions.

I guess the question is, if the location of the building, if we say that they need to provide a secondary egress and they go, okay, well, we'll do that, we'll keep the existing egress, then they try to move their building to adapt to that.

this won't let them do it.

So that's this is by adding the language that I think Mr. Barnes recommended.

That's all I'm thinking about.

Okay.

Any other questions for staff seeing as we're good.

Okay, great.

Thank you.

So with that, I'll see I'm doubting it.

But is there anybody in the public who would like to speak to this matter?

Seeing none online?

No.

Okay.

Sorry else.

Thank you for the clarification.

All right.

So discussion.

Prima best year, man.

Rules of order.

All right.

Well, I guess we need a motion then.

And I know it's in my district, so I'm happy to make the motion.

Would you like me to read it again?

Sure.

Okay, that sounds great.

Check me on this.

Second.

No.

All right.

Good.

Yes.

Ms.

Firehawk.

Hi.

Mr. Clayborne.

Hi.

Mr. Bivins.

Hi.

Mr. Moore.

Hi.

Great.

Thanks, everybody.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

All right.

With that, we'll move.

I think we are done with our

Public Hearing, and we will move to committee reports.

I would.

Yes, sir, Brian.

The Rio 29 Community Advisory Committee met just last Thursday.

We'll have one coming down the pike where Cross Life Church and Community Christian Academy right there at Old Brook Road in Rio.

They are going to ask to tear down an old personage that's not being used and put in, for the time being, a nice looking modular building for a few years so they can bring back their middle school students to that parcel.

Eventually, and this is not part of the proposal that we'll get, but eventually they want to increase their enrollment cap from 150 to 500.

That'll be an interesting discussion down the road.

But for now, they just want to put in a modular structure that looks kind of nice to bring back their middle school students.

and then also we got a really lovely and I learned a lot from presentation from the Environmental Services Division in the county about the drainage infrastructure management, which is a lot of what informed my comments earlier.

And really just how quite recently we've as a county been

maintaining public stormwater infrastructure and even just assessing what we've got and taking inventory.

It's only been 18 months that we've actually even looked to see what we even have in the urban area.

So I was glad to learn about it and can share more if you want to know.

Although the panel, the deck is online if you want to review it.

Great.

You know, one of the things I think bears conversation at some future point is

I found out a while back that the people that are doing the site plan process, and they're saying like, here's where the stormwater retention basin is going to go and all the stormwater facilities are different than the people in the county that then maintain those stormwater that inspect and keep those compliant after the fact.

And yeah, you get it.

I think it would make a lot more sense for those

two groups of people to be more in alignment.

But, you know, obviously we don't make staffing decisions, but I'll just put it out there as a point of efficiency.

Thank you.

Any other CAC reports or committee reports?

I don't have a CAC.

I have a different one.

Go ahead.

We just, I don't believe I report on this yet.

We had a public meeting about the solar facility on the farm at Secretary Sands.

from different sight lines and talking about how far away you might potentially be able to see the solar panels.

I know one concern that was brought up was the reflection of solar panels, but they talked about the fact that they're mostly black.

Because if you think about it, if a solar panel is reflecting the sun, then it is not absorbing the solar energy.

So by definition, they shouldn't really be reflecting a lot.

But anyway, it was really just a lot of Q&A.

We're still waiting to get that application here.

So it's a pretty small facility.

It's just over 30 acres of disturbance.

It is an existing forested site, and it is on a hill.

Now, it's a forest plantation site, so pine plantation.

The soil looks like it's in pretty good shape, but anyway, it's a bit controversial because of the potential sight lines from the neighbors.

Because it's on a hill, unlike some of the other sites that we've approved where they're much harder to see because they were down or tucked away.

So it's still to be determined still to come to us.

I don't have a date for that one.

There was a MPO tech last week.

SmartScale was the focus, a lot of discussion around the Barracks Road improvements by the bypass.

And so the main concern with the MPO tech was not providing a midblock

Crosswalk, particularly where you have a bus stop on one end, and you have the trail on the other end, and there's no crosswalk.

And a lot of people cross there today.

They're narrowing the streets with the improvements, which means people are going to

one across even more so, and there's no, there's no area of, what do they call it, that respite, the area of... Refuge.

Yeah, so anyway, there was a lot of conversation about that, and that we were pressured to approve it.

It was approved

with a condition sort of, I mean, it was, it couldn't be in a formal condition, but at least we've always been concerned that VEDA should look at as a design and they go further into the design to incorporate a crosswalk and midblock crossing.

Are they going to extend the left turn lane as you're coming from Charlottesville and getting on the bypass?

No, you're on Barracks Road.

You're coming from Charlottesville along Barracks Road.

No, the county side used to be a daycare center.

And so you can make a left hand turn, go up and then go south.

Bivins.

Well, you're microphone down.

Maybe I'm understanding that if I'm leaving Charlottesville, I've gone past the Exxon station and I want to take a left to go onto the bypass.

Correct.

So in theory, there'll be two roundabouts that will accommodate that turning movement there.

The way the funding has worked.

Sorry to steal your thunder.

No, the way there's actually two applications are in process there.

One of them is the county is doing sort of like half the project.

sort of around about at Georgetown plus the shared use pass and the road dieting coming back to the bypass.

So if that passes, it's great, but you know, the real aim is to try and get the whole thing done and do the whole project.

That's what the NPO is flying for.

So the NPO doesn't get the whole project.

It'll be a much smaller project in the subsequent years of trying to get the rest of the project.

Hopefully, we'll end up with the MPO being funded.

There'll be a roundabout at Georgetown and two roundabouts at the bypass.

And at that point, you won't have turn lanes.

Yeah, it's quite the improvements that they're proposing.

It's going to be multi-phase.

We're just trying to get this crosswalk.

I mean, from a pedestrian standpoint, I think it's going to be daunting.

Yeah, sounds good.

Yeah, no, we get it.

It's just that people use it today.

Yeah, I used to use it myself.

Yeah, and there was some discussion about the Fifth Street improvements as well, the Fifth Street and 64.

Great.

Thank you.

Any other reports of any kind?

All right.

Yes, the board met on the 15th of this month.

The two items that previously come for you were rezoning and especially use permit for the Stonefield Tesla.

And those were both approved by the board.

Awesome.

Same way.

Go ahead.

This is still your thunder again.

Again, we'll be back with a presentation for that in our next meeting.

the next meeting.

Generally speaking, as staff sort of gotten into the taking collection of all of the goals and objectives that we brought to you all, I think there's a need that we're seeing.

There's lots of details with those objectives.

You know, that's many, many different ideas.

It's sort of a need to create a companion document at the beginning of it that sort of really spells out sort of the larger goals and visions of the county.

And that's something that we're working on.

That's what's sort of delayed us.

We've been taking a little bit different directions.

So we're going to come back and explain that direction that we're taking to you all for your consideration at

So when you look at that, not on the schedule, but there's a work session on the 29th, sorry, 25th.

This is not, you're not talking about the work session, right?

You're talking about just a conversation, just an update.

It would just be an informational item that we'll have before.

Different than June 26.

Got it.

Okay, any new business?

Chair, I do have a question regarding training for planning commissioners.

I know it's usually held annually.

I was looking frantically online to see when that next one was offered.

So I was curious, do you all know if there's any plan to send commissioners to such a training?

You need time to look it up.

It's totally fine.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Any old business?

or items for follow-up.

All right, I will adjourn us then till June 11th.