Planning Commission Regular Meeting   1/10/2023

and I will be calling this meeting to order.

It is six o'clock on January 10th.

I believe we have a quorum.

Yes.

Mr. Missel?

Carolyn, can you please call roll?

Yes, Mr. Missel?

Mr. Missel?

Ms.

Firehock?

Present.

Mr. Bivins?

It appears we have a quorum.

I am opening this meeting because this is our organizational meeting and we will begin by electing a chair for this meeting.

Other matters not listed on the agenda from the public.

I believe we do start with that, sorry.

No, I do not.

Okay, we'll close the matters not listed on the agenda from the public.

And we will begin with the election of officers.

Can I also note that Chairman Bivins has arrived in former chair.

Commissioner Bivins, my apologies.

My apologies.

Commissioner Bivins has arrived and is now present.

So, we have a full slate of commissioners.

Mr. Bivins, would your motion also be to elect Mr. Clayborne as the chair?

Thank you.

We have a motion to elect Commissioner Clayborne as chair.

Do we have a second?

Second.

Yes.

Mr. Murray.

Hi.

Ms.

Firehawk.

Hi.

Mr. Bivins.

Thank you.

I will now turn this the rest of this meeting over to Chairman Clayborne to complete the rest of the meeting.

Well, thank you.

I hope I don't let anyone down.

Thank you for your confidence, and I do want to take a moment to just express gratitude to each of my commissioners.

This is my fourth year, so I'm coming into my fourth year, and I remember learning a lot from former Chairman Bivins as well as former Chairman Firehock and others along the way, and I just ask that you make sure I stay on the straight and narrow

this year as we do that and also want to thank staff for always making us look good for the preparations that come in day in day out and to our council who also keeps us out of jail.

So thank you to everyone.

as we look forward to doing this great work together in 23.

And I particularly want to thank you, Ms.

Firehock, for your leadership.

And I was talking to staff before the meeting as I would love to find a more formal way to show that appreciation besides these words here.

So more to come on that.

So you will be recognized more formally.

Indeed.

So I think it's now time to elect a vice chair.

Thank you.

Any other nominations?

Any further discussion?

Yes, I sure will.

Ms.

Firehock?

Aye.

Mr. Murray?

Aye.

All right.

Likewise, sir.

All right, as we get situated, I think we can move on to item number four on the agenda, which is discussion of the Planning Commission rules of procedure.

Thank you.

There are no changes proposed to the rules of procedure from what we were operating under last year.

These are standard.

I'm happy to take any questions unless Mr. Herrick has anything to add.

All right, thank you.

I had a question and this is basic, I think this is for counsel.

So we have under the types of attendance piece that we have sort of higher up, and then we have that separate piece about, what is that being called telephonic or online?

Is it not, would it not be helpful to incorporate that farther up?

We certainly could rearrange the order.

We adopted the remote participation policy just very recently.

My only reason for pushing that before us is that that then sort of continues the sweep of how we meet.

And so we have that one.

We have how we meet and who can be here and who cannot be here.

And then we have that remote piece, which I think is several sort of towards the end as it was adopted.

Commissioner Bivins, could you clarify exactly where you would want that to fall in the order?

So at the very top, I think you have how we meet, so when we meet.

And then number seven, so it's closer to around the quorum and voting procedures, because really you're talking about the mechanics of the meeting there.

And

I think it probably to switch it with communication with the Board of Supervisors.

OK, so you're suggesting that more participation policy be moved up to number six and that communication with Board of Supervisors be moved down to number seven?

Second?

Second.

Any further discussion?

All right, here are none.

Yes.

Ms.

Firehock?

Yes.

All right.

Moving on to item number five on the docket, discussion of committees, boards, bodies to which commission members serve as liaisons.

Yes, thank you.

In the commissioner's packet, you did receive a list of the various committee memberships that are appointed by the commission.

I also did put a version on each of your tables that shows the time and

frequency of those meetings so that you're aware of that.

We do have a number of vacant openings right now.

And so what we'd like to do is see if we could get some appointments or volunteers to serve on the vacant ones.

And then it's up to the commissioners if they want to change committees on any of the ones that are not location based.

All right, thank you.

I'd like to maybe try to bring some structure to this conversation because I think this is one that can get circular really quick if we're not careful.

I do want to thank staff for

putting the additional hand out there, which starts to speak to the requirements, right?

It's almost like a mini job description, right?

So how often does this group meet?

How long do they meet?

If they meet during the middle of the workday, I think almost all of us are working.

If you're retired, that's still work, right?

So that'll help maybe shape some of the discussion here.

So maybe we can start with the vacant ones first.

And if you look here, it looks like there's three vacant ones.

There is

the ACEA, the Albemarle Conservation Easement Authority, the Citizens Transportation Advisory Committee liaison, CTAC, and then the last one at the very bottom of your list here is AC44 comp plan work group meeting liaison.

And perhaps maybe the best way to do this is maybe just work around the dais and you can comment on whether you want to keep your assignment, trade it, take a vacant one, and then see how it shakes out is step number one if that sounds okay.

Absolutely, sure.

So the one that I might suggest, I will do two things.

I'm not sure if the long range school planning commission or committee is still in existence.

I've got an email out to them and I don't know that answer.

So that may be one that comes off depending on what Kevin sort of finds out from that.

And then I will just sort of put in a point.

I don't know when the second phase of the comp plan working group committee might be, but I would recommend that someone step into that role.

I did it the first round.

And for no other reason, I think it's actually good for us to be in the room as sort of ex-official members not participating unless

unless there's a passionate need to sort of participate because the committee is there, but I would suggest that somebody do that.

All right, thank you.

I don't see anyone jumping on you to take anything from you, so I think you're probably OK.

So I'm actually interested in both the CTAC or that comprehensive plan meeting, depending on all things, I mean, certainly that

that the transportation one is one that I would be interested in filling in.

Do you take both of those?

How about the one that you currently hold?

All right.

Thank you.

I will take an opposite approach and just keep with, stay with what I have.

At this point, I think one, two, three, four, five, with the exception of, and the reason is that Lupeck, Commissioner Bivins and I both sort of are on Lupeck for different reasons, you as the planning commission member, but it is something that I attend.

and I think the Village of Rivanna Community Advisory Committee is likely, well, we haven't met for quite some time and I'm not sure if they're likely to meet moving forward.

Thank you, sir.

I'm happy to keep the ones I have.

I'll just note that ACE is essentially disbanded.

Yeah.

And there's been no movement by the Board of Supervisors to reconvene it in any way.

So it doesn't really count as on my burden, if you will,

Then similarly, the Capital Improvement Program Oversight Committee was, I don't know how to say this, told not meeting for this year, this past year, by the Board of Supervisors.

They decided not to have it.

So it's very unclear to me whether that will come back.

I can keep my name in the hat should it come back.

I actually thought budgeting was fun.

The only other thing that I, and historic preservation actually has not been able to meet for five months.

They've not been able to achieve a quorum and we've had two resignations since then.

So I don't even know that we have enough bodies to make a quorum.

So that's something that needs to be addressed because that's a really important committee for the comprehensive plan to be able to do what they do.

So anyway, those were more statements about fact of the committees.

I am kind of a comprehensive planning junkie.

I love comprehensive planning, so I would be happy to do that, but I don't have to.

I also have a difficult business schedule, and I don't know when they meet.

Okay, so maybe we can tag team because if, depending on, that's the only, that was my, I was going to bring, thank you for bringing that up.

There's, well, that may be the only, no, I think there's a couple others that I saw that didn't have a... Like, they don't have a set time, so it's hard to know.

They don't have a set time, so... Right.

Giving work schedule, whether or not I can actually...

Okay, well, you can be the rep and I'll be your tag friend.

Yeah, we can figure it out.

I think the board has to decide that there are liaisons from the planning commission to serve on committee.

And so the board had made that decision.

And then they decided that it was no longer necessary to have that liaison position.

I think it was because they were, well, the reason they decided to have it was because the group was getting ready to, was gonna finish their report.

And so they wanted the planning commission to have more communication with that group.

but then the report is finished, so I think the board decided we didn't need to have an appointed person.

Yeah, that's what I would recommend if we feel that strongly about it, if we have to write up a proposal.

I'd just point out that I think Commissioner Firehock is correct.

And just a note of caution, the board has noted that they feel the county has too many committees and they're actually looking for opportunities to condense

collapse, maybe make some meet less frequently.

And I'll reiterate, nothing stops you from just attending a meeting if you want to sit in and learn without having that formal connection, which might be the most appropriate way forward.

Mr. Murray, last one standing.

So there is a vacancy.

Oh, okay.

Thank you, Commissioner Murray.

Just taking notes here.

So perhaps I'll just kind of recap for the record and then we can move to vote.

But the changes that I have here to the list before us is with ACEA as Commissioner Murray.

I have CTEC, the Citizens Transportation Advisory Committee as Luis or Commissioner Carrazano.

I have SANE for the, where's my notes?

Mr. Carrazana, help me out.

AC44.

So those were the only modifications I have to this list.

Any further discussion?

Yes.

Ms.

Firehock?

Aye.

Thank you.

On to item number six, review and adopt meeting schedule for 2023.

Yes, thank you.

Your schedule of meetings is included in the packet.

I would like to note one change that we will have to make to that.

It does list December 26th as a potential meeting date, which would be a holiday.

And I would suggest that maybe we move that up one week

to the December 18th date so that we can continue to have an extra, or December 19th, excuse me, December 19th meeting so that we can continue to have a second meeting in December.

Of course, at any point in time, if there's not items that we need to cover, we can cancel meetings.

However, we often do have full slate.

So having that second one on there, I think would be good.

And I just want to clarify, because I did hear the confusion, when you see the list of meeting dates in this, the work sessions are also opportunities for public hearings.

So despite the fact that those dates aren't listed in the public hearing column, there would be public hearings that could be scheduled on those evenings.

Oh Chair, I thought we had had a late or an epiphany gift on that and hopefully we'll have a chance to speak to

the duality of the roles that we're being asked to play when we have both a work session around something that asks us to look forward and to do a different type of analysis and intellectual exchange than when we're looking at public hearings, which we're really working within the confines of zoning, of comp plans and of land use.

And so that's a very constrained, not in a negative way, but it's a very focused kind of work.

were the work we've been doing when we have work sessions, when we're looking at zoning and we're looking at land use, that's future casting.

I appreciate that.

Any other comments on the schedule, regarding the schedule?

Oh, sorry, Mr. Missel, were you about to say something?

No, sir.

One thing I might add, similar to what we did last year, is that I would ask that we all look at our business calendars

Some of us have business travel that kind of creeps up and maybe looks six months out and to see if any conflicts that you have with your business schedule arise with the planning commission meeting schedules and letting Kevin know as soon as possible so we can make sure we have a quorum for the public hearings that are being booked.

Is that something we could all agree to?

Sound reasonable?

Okay.

Is there a motion to adopt this presented schedule as amended by staff regarding that December 2016?

So moved.

Any further discussion?

All right.

Yes.

Thank you so much.

Okay.

Ms.

Firehock.

Aye.

All right.

Thank you.

On to the consent agenda, which you will see on the next sheet.

And it consists of two sets of meetings, one both from November the 22nd and the 29th.

Does any commissioner want to pull anything from the consent agenda?

Second.

Any further discussion?

All right, hearing none.

Ms.

Firehock?

Aye.

All right, the consent agenda has been adopted and now we're on to our public hearings of which we have three tonight.

And with that, I'll turn it over to staff for a staff report.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'm David Benish, Development Process Manager with Community Development Department.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm going to start out by giving you some background information about the compliance review process since this is an item that you don't see as frequently.

But this is a proposal to establish a botanical garden on a portion of the

cities McIntire Park property.

It's about 14 plus acres in McIntire Park.

About three acres of that lies within the county.

The rest is within city property.

The proposed activity is considered a public use that's been determined by our zoning administrator.

Public uses are permitted by right in all zoning districts.

However, if the proposed public use is not identified in a comprehensive plan, a review for the proposal's compliance with the comprehensive plan is required, and that's a state code requirement, the citation of which is on the screen.

CCP determines if the location, character, and extent of a facility is in substantial accord with the comprehensive plan.

The county staff reviews the proposal and makes a recommendation on that finding to the Planning Commission.

And the Planning Commission acts on the proposal by either finding it in substantial accord or not.

The commission's action really is focused in on the consistency of the proposed location of the use to the comp plan.

It is not in and of itself a recommendation of whether the facility should be built or not.

That comment's actually more relevant when it's a

County facility.

That's a decision ultimately with the board.

But this is focused in on whether the location and character is consistent with the recommendations of the plan.

And that's the limits of the review.

No action is required of the board of supervisors.

However, the finding is forwarded to the board of supervisors.

They do have the option to come to a different conclusion.

They seldom do.

But there is no required action from the board after this date.

A little bit more on specifics of this proposal, and the applicant has a very good presentation, so I'm going to try to be as brief as I can here.

The Botanical Garden of the Piedmont organization has entered into a 40-year lease with the City of Charlottesville to construct the Botanical Garden.

Again, it's on, I believe, 14.7 acres of land in McIntire Park, and three of those are in Albemarle County.

The specific site, you can see,

Here on the map is 950 Melbourne Road.

It's the southwest corner of the intersection of Melbourne Road and the John Warner Parkway.

You can see that what is the sort of salmon color plus the left side of the highlighted yellow constitutes a general area for the Botanical Garden.

The actual portion or parcel in the county is it was actually split by John Warner Parkway.

The only part of that

Total Parcel is the portion west of John Warner Parkway where I have the red lettering.

This is an aerial view of the vicinity, which gives you a little bit better picture of the surrounding uses, which is primarily public and institutional uses.

The Norfolk Southern Railroad is due west, and west of that is Charlottesville High School.

To the north is the high school ball fields of football.

I believe it's the women's softball field and practice facility.

There's also a parks and rec recreation building located there.

And John Warner Parkway Linear Park runs along the John Warner Parkway, both southwest, east, and north of this site.

and obviously to the south is the rest of McIntire Park.

Again, the red outline is the general location for the total facility.

The components of the proposal, it's an emission-free facility.

It will be open, it's projected to be open nine to six o'clock, a.m.

to p.m.

except for some major events.

They anticipate four annual events.

Those are important for revenue-raising purposes since it's otherwise an admission-free facility.

There are the facilities being proposed and buildings.

Obviously, there are gardens, but besides the gardens, there'll be a visitor center, a garden pavilion, which is a small building meeting space, an amphitheater, a main event green, and one main parking area.

You may note that on the attachment of the staff report there was additional information about potential overflow parking areas that don't show up on this diagram, which is a general overview of the proposal.

In terms of the recommendations in our comprehensive plan, the land use plan,

for the Places 29 Master Plan, Land Use Plan, and Parks and Green Systems Plan both recommend uses that are parks and open space and parks and green, excuse me, yeah, public open space and parks and public open space.

It's slightly different designations, essentially the same for both.

Those designations recognize the fact that this land is part of McIntire Park and that park activities would occur and enhancements may occur in the future.

In terms of the assessment of the character and extent of the proposal, the proposed open space, passive recreation and civic uses that are proposed by this facility are consistent with the uses that are

recommended for lands designated for parks and public open space use.

We see botanical gardens as a feature, not uncommon to public parks.

And although, and it's consistent with the city's East McIntire Park Master Plan, and although that plan is not part of the county's plan, it did play into the baseline designations for this area as public parks and open space.

The character and extent of the activities and surrounding uses are consistent.

They are mostly public uses or institutional uses, as we noted before, the high school John Warner Parkway park.

Those adjacent uses also provide some supporting service opportunities, including opportunities for overflow parking as one example.

and Melbourne Road provides additional on-street parking that can be used if necessary during peak periods.

This proposal was reviewed by transportation planning staff and entrance corridor staff.

No major issues were defined.

Availability for parking for major events was one of the issues that was inquired about and that's why there's some additional information about that available parking.

We do advise that there is coordination of activities and events with Charlottesville High School.

I believe the applicant has already started that process and understands that, but we do think that's an important thing to occur moving forward.

So staff finds that the location, character, and extent of the proposed public facility is consistent with the county's comprehensive plan and the Places 29 master plan.

And it's consistent with the city's planning for the East McIntire Park area.

We did not find any unfavorable factors as it relates to consistency with the comprehensive plan.

So we recommend that you do find the location, character, and extent of the

Excuse me, I clipped in the wrong recommendation.

Sorry.

But that this proposal be found consistent with the comprehensive plan.

All right.

Any questions for staff?

No?

Hearing none, we'll open the public hearing for this.

And with that, I would ask for the applicant to please come up and deliver their presentation.

Good evening.

Thank you for this opportunity.

My name is Jill Trishman Marks.

I am the executive director of the Botanical Garden of the Piedmont.

And I appreciate this opportunity to tell you about what's been going on at the Botanical Garden recently and our plans for the future.

So the, I just want to make sure I've got this working okay.

Sorry, where on my screen should I be?

Ah, there we are.

Advancing, there we go.

Sorry.

The mission of the Botanical Garden of the Piedmont is to welcome all community members and visitors to engage in nature, to inspire learning through the beauty and importance of plants, to advance sustainability and to promote human and environmental wellbeing.

The garden is being planned as a place for everyone to learn, play, explore, relax and gather.

The garden will be a community asset that's open to the public year round and will combine accessible outdoor community garden rooms and interior garden spaces.

Oh, okay, great.

Thank you, Fred.

To give you a little more context, we have got the John Warner Parkway, Melbourne Road, the railroad, and then this stream right here are the boundaries for the Botanical Garden.

The area right here with the red asterisk is the county area.

Across Melbourne Road,

is the Parks and Rec landscape shed for the city of Charlottesville, Charlottesville High School football stadium.

On the other side of the railroad tracks is Charlottesville High School itself.

And then, of course, on the other side of Melbourne Road are the trails along the parkway that go from Route 250 all the way up to KTEC.

Our schematic plan and the features were designed through a series of public input sessions in 2018.

Recently, we revised our master plan in order to accommodate the additional acreage that we got as part of the land lease process, but we also changed it to accommodate

the stream restoration that's about to begin as well as the spur of the Rivanna Trail that goes through the site and the bridge that the city will be building shortly.

Although we've made those changes, none of the other public input that was part of the design of the schematic plan was altered.

Our lease agreement with the city requires that there is no admission fee to the garden.

Therefore, the large garden spaces, specifically the main event green right here and the amphitheater, are vital to sustaining the garden financially.

The garden will also include smaller areas to serve as outdoor classrooms for exploration and learning, such as our Children's Discovery Garden here, our Aquatics Garden, and then across the stream, our Tree Canopy Walk.

There will also be less programmed, more contemplative garden spaces.

For example, our meadow that will include native wildflowers and grasses, our healing and contemplative gardens, our moss, mushroom and fern gardens.

We will have a pineedom, which is a collection of native conifers, as well as a flowering grove and native trails.

The area that will be developed in Albemarle County land includes our children's discovery area, our parking lot, and our garden pavilion.

These are also the garden features that we plan to be the first phase of the construction of the garden.

We have not hired an architect yet.

So in fact, we are going to be having architects come to the Charlottesville area in two weeks in response to our RFP.

So everything that I'm talking about, buildings right now, it's very early days.

What we do know is that we will have a visitor center, which will house our meeting rooms, offices.

and as well as catering facilities, perhaps a cafe, exhibit space.

We will have the garden pavilion, which we're planning as a three season event space with bathrooms, a service shed, which will house all of the programming materials for our children's discovery garden and our maintenance shed, which will be the home of our tools and equipment that we'll use for maintaining the garden.

Again, the images that I'm showing you now about our architecture, it's very early days.

We don't have an architect, but this is what the community responded to.

And so it gives you an idea of the spirit of the architecture for this site.

The other requirement of the city was that we are able to accommodate bus parking.

So currently our parking lot provides for 82 vehicles, four handicapped spaces, and three buses.

Lighting will be installed in our parking area, but it will only be used when the garden is open for special evening events.

This plan indicates the area that's been designated for our overflow parking.

It is in the right of way of Dominion Energy.

We've already been in conversations with them and our plans are already working towards accommodating the criteria that they have for using it in this manner.

In addition, there are about 50 on-street parking spaces along the garden towards Charlottesville High School.

And there are an additional 10 to 12 parking spaces along Melbourne Road on the other side of the John Warner Parkway.

We started a conversation about a public bus stop near the garden with Charlottesville Area Transit several years ago.

and we're looking for ways to collaborate with Jaunt for other ways to provide public transportation to the garden for events.

At past events, we've shuttled guests to the garden from Charlottesville High School when it wasn't in session and we plan to use this strategy in the future.

Additional satellite parking areas could include KTEC when it's not in session, Albemarle Square and other locations.

There will be a main pedestrian entrance along Melbourne Road.

And in addition, there will be gates along the spur of the Rivanna Trail that runs along the sides of Charlottesville of the Botanical Garden to welcome visitors to the garden from the south.

We also will be developing parking for bicycles in the next level of design of the garden.

As Mr. Benes said, our hours of operation we're expecting will be from nine to six with extended hours on either end of the day to accommodate special events.

At this time, we anticipate four

Large events annually, a fall festival, a winter light display, a spring celebration, and summer exhibition.

West Virginia Botanic Garden in Morgantown is very similar to our garden in that they do not charge admission fees and they're located in a city with a university.

They provided this information about the use of their site.

They just started taking this, documenting this past year.

And from May 12 to September 16, this is the statistics they came up with during the busiest time of the year.

So as I mentioned, the first garden that we plan to build is the Children's Discovery Garden.

And here's a plan of what that garden looks like.

And here are some precedent images of what that will be in that garden.

So Mr. Trishman Marks, I apologize.

At the beginning, I should have told you that the rules we just adopted allocate 10 minutes for presentation.

Yes, thank you.

Our amphitheater will be used in similar ways as the main event green.

Our aquatics garden will be an attractive garden feature and an accessible outdoor classroom.

Our tree canopy walk will include a bird line as well as a sky viewing platform.

If you've been around long enough, you'll remember that our site was the former leaf dump and mulch pile for the city of Charlottesville.

We started stewarding the site in 2019, and by removing invasive plants, we've been able to create trails and gathering areas and offer free public classes and programs in areas such as the arts, literacy,

and STEM as well as other science classes.

We also offer our garden spaces to other groups to use for their programming for free.

And of course we couldn't do any of this without the support of our volunteers.

And our volunteer core actually doubled during the pandemic from around 200 to over 470.

Thank you and well done, well done.

Any questions from the commission for the applicant?

I think it's worked from right to left.

Sure.

First of all, it's a great project and I'm pleased to see how it's developing.

Thank you for that report.

The one question I had for you was about the parking lot.

Yes, absolutely.

And in fact, may I go back to show you that I'm really excited about our parking lot.

So I'd love to show you more about it.

So actually, the parking lot was redesigned as part of

this new schematic plan.

And what you see in the center is actually a rain garden.

So all of the water from the parking lot will drain into the central area.

It will be filtered and go under the garden where it will also capture roof-front water from the buildings and then go through a series of

so that it can also be aerated.

So that water will eventually either go to cisterns, but the idea is that we'll be able to recirculate that water.

One of the things we're really excited about is being able to use the sound of water to mitigate the sound of traffic in this area.

So we're thinking of the garden as a machine, as a way to

Any other questions, Commissioner Murray?

I have a question and a comment.

Ah, that is a really good question and actually that's not the case because

Let me go back here.

So the old driveway is somewhere in this area right here.

And the driveway entrance now was the old Melbourne Road, which is the dividing line between the city and the county.

So actually the entrance into the parking lot, because it has been moved from where it is now, is actually within the city and not the county.

The site will also be subject to site plan approval.

And I think it may be subject to site plan approval both in the city and the county.

And VDOT and the city would comment on it.

Yeah, I was just trying to, it wasn't clear, but thank you for the clarification.

And then my comments in the lines of materiality, I know you don't have an architect yet or

but we have issues nearby, particularly McIntyre and the, I'm thinking of the ACAC or not the, I'm sorry, not the ACAC, but the... YMCA?

The YMCA, thank you.

And there's been a lot of issues with bird strike.

So you had a beautiful image there of a lot of glass and timber and beautiful structure just

If you look into some of the mitigations for bird strike glass, there's plenty of technology out there now that really works well.

Thank you.

That is a nice recommendation.

Thank you.

So you mentioned, good evening.

You mentioned that you'd been in conversation with Cat about getting a public spot there.

And their response was, it's not a build it and they will come kind of scenario when you need a public bus stop.

And so

I actually found out today that the National Park Service program, the RTC, is actually going to provide us with 20 hours of support services this spring because nobody could tell me what I need to document in order to prove that I need a bus stop.

I would have thought, you know, kind of theoretically that all of the evidence that has come out during the pandemic of how

Access to green space is so important to people and that both physical and mental outcomes are improved by regular access to green space might be enough to prove the need for a bus stop, but unfortunately it's not.

So we are going to one of the things we're going to get as a part of this relationship with the National Park Service is a counter to start being able to document how many people are using the garden.

I appreciate that.

I appreciate the work that you're doing.

I also appreciate the partnerships that you're creating.

It is not unknown to my colleagues that I continue to be sort of gently annoyed that all of the green spaces in the county are drivable.

None of them, except for one park in the district that I happen to represent, and that's the Charlotte Humphreys Park, can you walk to?

And so with all the excitement that we have about bike ped, you can't bike ped easily to any of the green spaces.

And so I was hoping that this green space, which happens to be both in a developed area and in a

in the interurban area, that we could facilitate people getting there without having to drive their vehicle, be it electric or not.

And so I'm going on record saying yet again, for a community that claims to be this place of grace, you can't get to any of those places for quiet

for quiet solitude or meditation without driving a vehicle.

The other thing that I will share with you is that is this anywhere connected to the, where I asked the question, is this connected to the project that was behind MACA?

But that is something that you hopefully came to in your own sort of wrestling about what is our presence here, given what you say this place is going to be.

And so I'm thankful that you reached that point.

Thank you.

That's a good thing.

And that has been an issue for us.

We started offering a lot of our programming during the pandemic and especially because public schools were remote and now that they've started many of them last year, they

The students were meeting in the classroom but they weren't allowed to go on field trips and this year so far there's been issues because there aren't enough school bus drivers to get them.

So the organizations that we've been working with are mostly those organizations that can provide their own transportation.

and that's another reason why Jaunt and our organization are meeting and trying to find ways that we can get grants and other opportunities to provide transportation to get more students, children to the garden.

We're also working with Wild Rock to provide opportunities in the garden because

their facility is fantastic but it's also really hard for them to get students out there so yeah we are doing as much as we can to that one of the things that happened is when we started the schematic plan phase it was shortly after the events of the

August 2017, and the community and the board of directors felt very strongly that this be a place where people of all ages and backgrounds could come together, get to know one another, and heal the community.

Well, in order to do that, we had to make the botanical garden be a place where people feel welcome now.

not the day that the construction is open, but now because we need their input into not just the features that we're building in the garden, but also the programming we're offering to the community.

And in fact, the results of our schematic plan and our aspirations for it to be more than to serve the community in different ways than botanical gardens normally are seen to serve.

We won a national award from the American Society of Landscape Architects because we've broken the archetype of what a botanical garden is.

This seems like a really exciting project.

I'll just offer one comment.

And as you are selecting the design team that you just push the envelope on the inclusivity piece, you know, particularly for those with disabilities, for example, when you started to touch on it in your presentation about being able to listen to the water kind of falls.

If you're blind, right, that would be great fulfillment to hear the water running.

Like with that lens to me, that's a great design.

Thank you.

Yes.

I have been meeting with the executive director of Bennet's Village, as well as VIA, as well as Java and the center in order to make sure that

This entire garden is not going to be a place that feels safe and welcoming to everyone, but we want to have a place that everyone feels safe and welcome.

Thank you for the presentation.

And we'll move on to public comment.

No one has signed up officially, but is there anyone here in the audience who would like to come up to speak to this project?

Okay, seeing no one rushing to the front.

Okay.

Well, with that, I believe we can close the public comment.

And we can bring it in amongst ourselves for discussion.

Yeah, I was just trying to get the recommendation up so you could see it.

That's all.

I would just say for the public's benefit that this is not a site plan review.

We're just here, our only chart here tonight is really defined whether it's in accordance with the comprehensive plan and the designation of parks and green systems.

Our comprehensive plan is so old that

You know, this wasn't really in the works when we did it the last time.

Had it been, I'm sure we would have wholeheartedly said, fabulous to have a botanic garden within the urban ring.

So I'm certainly supportive of this.

Five million years ago, when I was on the Charlottesville Planning Commission, I also had a role in chairing the McIntyre master planning process.

and we talked about some kind of botanic garden, some kind of place where people go and have education.

So it's been a long time coming and I'm really excited to see it.

I can't wait to frolic in the garden.

Maybe I'll even pull some weeds if you ask me.

So I'm kind of an avid gardener on the side.

So thank you very much for that.

It's a great comment, great reminder of what we're voting on.

Any other comments or discussion from the commission?

Is there a motion?

All right.

Any further discussion?

All right.

Ms.

Firehock.

Aye.

All right, motion passed unanimously.

Thank you.

And we'll move on to our next public hearing, which is SP-2220020, Esmont, Scottsville transmission line.

I'm Scott Clark.

I'm the county's Natural Resources Program Manager.

And this item is regarding a special use permit for the Esmont-Scotsville electrical transmission line.

The location map here shows you the extent of this project, which is larger than most, reaches from Esmont in the west, where there's an existing substation,

along the south side of Irish Road Route 6, almost to Scottsville itself where the Scottsville substation is located at the east end of this project.

The proposal is to replace the existing power line support poles which have a current average height of about 40 feet with new poles, mainly H-shaped steel poles with an average height of about 60 feet.

which will accommodate a new 46 kilovolt power line.

This is part of a larger reliability project.

You all have already seen another piece of this, the Scottsville substation upgrade which is in fact going to the board tomorrow.

So, this is a diagram of roughly the appearance of the existing poles in the corridor and those would be replaced with new poles of

A similar design but made of a dulled galvanized steel material and of somewhat greater height, again, about 60 feet.

A few or roughly eight to nine structure would use single poles just to allow the poles and the lines to stay within the existing rights of way.

This is a photo simulation provided by the applicant showing the difference between the existing conditions at the top and the proposed new transmission poles at the bottom.

And in summary, staff felt that there was no substantial detriment to surrounding properties due to replacement of poles in the same corridor.

and that the character of the area would not be changed again by what are essentially one-to-one pole replacements.

When it comes to scenic resources, there is some but minimal visual impact because there are taller poles.

However, they're quite a distance from the entrance corridor and the visibility would be offset by the use of the new lighter colored adult metal material.

and as we've said before with similar projects, there is some impact on the rural areas by creating utility corridors, but this is reusing an existing corridor, so there's minimal impact in that sense.

Just to look at visibility again, this is another photo simulation showing at the top the view of the existing poles from Route 6.

and at the bottom you can see that the new polls would in fact be taller and slightly more visible.

We did extensive pre-application work sessions with the applicants, which they put a lot of work into, which I really appreciate.

One of the options they considered originally was to do fewer polls.

but that actually raised the height of the poles quite a bit and made them more visible because the poles that would be used would have emerged much higher above the skyline.

So this turned out to be the better solution.

So in summary, positive aspects would increase the reliability of electrical service, excuse me.

Pole materials would minimize visual impacts and using the existing corridor there other than some new corridor avoids new land impacts in the rural areas.

We have one condition that is recommended and we have a slight update to that.

There was some discussion after the staff report went out with the applicants.

We originally thought that all of the new poles would be H frames.

It turns out that a small number will not be.

We have rephrased the condition to just refer to the fact that new transmission poles and other permanent structures

with clarifying that nothing temporary being done during construction would be affected, would need to be the steel with the dulled galvanized finish.

Thank you, Mr. Clark.

Commission, do we have any questions for staff?

This is an entrance quarter question.

So Route 6 is one of those roads?

Route 6 actually I just learned today is not going to be on the entrance corridor list as it's being said.

It was considered one in the past.

The reason I ask that is because then some of the concerns that were

I know everyone has visible concerns, but some of the higher standards that we sometimes apply to things that we see from the road don't apply here, because this is not an entrance corridor.

And then does this connect to that property that we saw on James River Road?

Is this connected to that project that we just saw on James River Road?

Yes, that's the east end of the project.

So this is sort of enhancing the lines to come to that.

Actually the bigger higher voltage lines come in from the southwest into that substation and this connects from the Scottsville station that I think receives

I don't get the number wrong, but the applicants will know a much higher voltage.

And then this is a 46 kV line that will go to Asmont.

But this is continuing to do the work, I think, if it's AEP, is to continue to do the work in that part of the county.

That's trying to enhance what we have there.

I just have a couple questions.

Thanks, Scott.

Great report.

Really helpful.

So one, as you mentioned, and I was curious about the number of polls that you addressed that said it's the same amount of polls.

There was an option to reduce the number of polls, but they would have been much higher.

How does that conversation happen?

Is that between you and the applicant or is the applicant come to you and say,

Here's what we're doing and you say let's try to reduce the polls.

It depends on the application.

Okay, good to know.

And then this is a naive question.

I should probably know the answer.

But are there guidelines like it talks about get dull galvanized finishes?

Not that I'm aware of.

It tends to depend a lot on the landscape context.

So in this case, where we've got a lot of open sky background to these lines, so the lighter pulse makes sense.

In a more wooded context, we've had applicants propose the, I want to call it rusty steel, I've forgotten the technical.

Got it.

Okay.

Thanks.

Now I attended an excellent public meeting about this.

All right.

Well, thank you again, Mr. Clark.

With that, we will open up the public hearing.

And is there an applicant that would like to come forth for presentation?

Welcome, and we look forward to the presentation.

I just want to share that there's 10 minutes for the presentation.

When you see the yellow light, which will come after the green light, it's just a gentle reminder to make your most salient points, and time will be coming to a close.

So thank you.

All right, thank you.

Daniel Fraser with Power Engineers Engineering and Environmental Consultant representing Appalachian Power for the Esmont to Scottsville Transmission Line Rebuild Project and Special Use Permit 22-20.

Thank you for this opportunity to present this project and staff has already covered a good description of our project, which will involve rebuilding about six miles of the existing Esmont to Scottsville 69 kV line.

So starting at Esmont substation on Route 6 and Scottsville substation on James River Road is the other end of the project.

There also is a switch structure outside of Esmond substation that would also be replaced as part of this project.

Again, part of the larger reliability project that Appalachian Power has ongoing in the state.

So I'd like to talk a little bit about the need for the project and some of those key items, one being the age of the line.

So this line was originally installed around 1925, so it is approaching its hundred year anniversary and it is time to replace those poles, wires, hardware.

So, you know, obviously replacing a hundred year old equipment with modern equipment will enhance reliability for the county and the customers served from Asmont substation.

Also, you know, the limitations of that existing line, given the wire size that was used in the 1920s, as well as the lack of shield wires is another key item.

So adding shield wires protects from lightning strikes and hopefully reduces the number of outages that circuit sees.

So, you know, by replacing the line with new modern infrastructure that will also accommodate future growth across the grid.

and then to meet current electrical safety standards for the public and meet designing to current standards as well as Appalachian employees that maintain and operate the line.

So I talked about modern equipment, and you've seen these simulations already.

On the top is the existing condition.

I think this is from Langhorne Road.

And then on the bottom, you see that H-frame structure is slightly taller, and that is to accommodate those shield wires, which provide shielding from lightning strikes and grounding for the transmission line.

As Mr. Clark noted, generally H-frames will be the typical type of structure that is used.

And then, you know, 9 to 10 locations where different types of structures are needed, all tubular steel similar to what you see, but they're used to keep buildings out of the right of way or turn an angle, things like that.

All new permanent structures will have the dull galvanized finish that you saw there and you've also seen this drawing here, the cross-section of the existing right-of-way on the left versus the proposed on the right.

The project will primarily be rebuilt within the existing right-of-way.

The easements vary somewhat based on when they were secured and the language within those, but generally it ranges from 80 to 100 feet.

There also are a few easements that have been supplemented.

There are a few areas where we, or one key area where we do go outside into new right-of-way, but all of those easements have been secured with landowners.

So we are, those have been secured.

Looking at the line route a bit, Esmond substation is to the left, top left, and Scottsville substation, which we have been here before for that project is the bottom right of the screen here.

The black line is the proposed route for the rebuild.

And you can see it largely parallels Route 6, which is shown just to the north there.

The line, the portion I mentioned where new right-of-way was secured is right around Porter's Road near the Yancey Community Center.

There are several buildings that have developed around the existing line, so working with landowners and through the process, a few angle points were added to go around those buildings and keep them out of the right-of-way.

and minimize the impact to the community that really has developed around the line there.

There also are two BOF easements right around Esmond substation.

That's what the yellow marking is there.

All of that work would be completed within the existing easements that are

that Appalachian Power holds.

And then the other item to note is that about four miles does cross through the Southern Albemarle World Historic District.

So that is noted.

And again, that that that district is a National Register of Historic Places listed, as you're well aware.

So by rebuilding with similar structure types, they generally look the same in general, this generally the same location where we're minimizing those changes to the character of the district.

Again, you've seen the simulation looking from Route 6 and you can see hopefully a minimal change in the structure and in the view from that visible area.

So looking at when, you know, the schedule here, where we've been and what we've done, you know, this project has been in development on the Appalachian Power side for quite a few years.

And we've been working closely with staff to come to the proposal we have today.

One of the key items that I would hit on is that gathering public input is a critical part of Appalachian's process.

So the project was announced to the public in 2020, which a few years ago, understandably.

It was a virtual open house at that time.

But since then, this past fall, we did do an in-person community meeting at Scottsville Library to gather input from the public based on the proposed route as it's shown today.

So pending approval and securing all permits, construction would be expected to begin.

in 2024 and last through 2026.

And so, you know, just in summary, you know, the project will aligns with the goals of comprehensive plan for adequate and safe electric service.

It increases reliability by replacing structures that are nearly 100 years old and keeping them in generally the same location and at the same time minimizes impacts to the natural and human environments by largely using that existing right-of-way.

Thank you for an informative presentation.

Is there any questions for the applicant?

Sure.

Well.

Not affecting the approval of this.

I know that a lot of our rare habitats in Albemarle County and elsewhere in the state often occur in right-of-ways.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think we addressed it in the narrative, I didn't put it in the presentation.

Yeah, just have a couple quick questions.

First of all, we've seen you guys before.

Obviously, you come back relatively frequently.

And I'm curious, with the reliability project that you've been referring to, it seems like this is kind of a comprehensive move on your part, right?

You're sort of systematically going through and making these improvements.

Is there a plan, I'm just trying to think, is there a way or a strategy that you all have considered to look at these as a larger grouping in terms of approvals that might facilitate or help you guys sort of move through the process more quickly?

Yeah, so those are, you know, those plans come with each project and as the need is identified.

So, you know, Appalachian Power and American Electric Power have a process by which they inspect, maintain lines, inspect them on a regular basis and identify needs for

Replacements, improvements like that.

And so when those can be combined, absolutely.

That is an approach that is very beneficial for us at Appalachian Power, obviously.

On everyone's behalf.

So the other portion of this project is the Central Virginia Transmission Reliability Project.

A large portion of that project was approved by the State Corporation Commission, again, grouping a large portion together.

This piece being a lower voltage and within Albemarle County was selected for local approval.

Great, good to know.

And then one other question, and this is just kind of a geeky question, but with the shield lines and the transmission lines, the shield lines are about seven feet taller than the transmission lines.

I guess you can't lower those shield lines.

I assume that's an

Got it.

Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner.

Any other on this side of the dice?

I have one question.

It's more for just my general knowledge.

You had a slide that showed the proposed versus the existing.

And I'm used to seeing these high voltage lines like out in the wilderness, right?

So like in this image here is in a residential area.

Just curious, how does maintenance work?

Yeah, so I guess I would say it probably depends on the type of maintenance, if it's planned maintenance, and I guess I'm saying leaving emergency situations out of it for restoration.

In planned maintenance, the easements that are negotiated with landowners provide for access.

to the structures for maintenance purposes.

And generally, I would say Appalachian Power works with landowners as much as possible to access the structures in a way that minimizes, hopefully doesn't tear up the grass.

So there are multiple options that can be used, whether that's wooden matting that's put down,

or temporary stone roads, things like that.

All right, thank you.

If there's no other questions from the commission, we'll move to public comment.

I do have one person who has signed up, Mr. Jeff Ray, if the individual

Okay, thank you.

Anyone else in the audience like to make public comment on this proposal?

All right.

With that, I'll close the public hearing.

We'll bring it back to the commission for discussion.

If the applicant were to come back up for a second, Chair, I just had a question on whether or not they're also running or using those, the towers to run either fiber or they make themselves available to cellular.

So to the first question about fiber, there is generally fiber installed on Appalachian power transmission lines that is used for purposes of communication within the electric grid and for operation of the grid, not for not for commercial communication, public communication purposes.

As far as cellular antennas, those are they can be installed on transmission lines.

Thank you.

Very, very helpful.

What is the county procedure policy for adding those

Well, I don't know the specifics, but obviously, they'd be subject to a personal wireless service facility ordinance, County Code 18-5.1.40, which dictates the various types of approval that are needed for additional wireless service facilities.

I wish Mr. Fritz were here because he could give you a better answer than that.

I'll just make a comment just that it's a really important project.

It's almost comical to hear how old those lines are.

The one photo that you were just asking about and you're saying, how would they get across the line?

Not that long ago, that actual location was a farm.

Those houses have sprung up since then and knew they were next to a transmission line.

I'm sure they're as appreciative of reliable power as the rest of us.

I know that Scottsville in particular has been growing.

I moved my tech company there three years ago.

and it's really a need, you know, to get away from unreliable power so it's really important for the growth of that part of Southern Albemarle and also with people having home based businesses.

I mean, if you don't have power after a while, you don't have internet because you get your surge protector and it lasts for a certain amount of time and your power back up and then that dies.

I'm happy to make that.

All right.

Sure.

So I know there were some amendments to the staff comments.

So I will make the motion to recommend approval of SP 2022-20 for Esmont-Scottesville transmission line rebuild project with the conditions outlined in the staff report and as amended.

Any further discussion?

Yes.

Yes.

Mr. Firehock.

Hi.

All right.

Thank you.

And the proposal will move on to the Board of Supervisors with the context of this conversation.

So thank you.

And the last public hearing is SP 2022-00001 Misty Mountain Campground.

There we go.

Thank you again.

This is a special use permit request for amendment of previous permits for a campground use located on Route 250 just west of the Crozet interchange on Interstate 64.

And this aerial photo gives you a rough idea of the layout of the facility with 250 at the north end.

entrance road in the center.

There's an open campground area and administrative area at the front and an additional camping in the higher ground to the rear on the south side of Stockton Creek.

A view that gives you more detail on the layout of the current campground and its surroundings.

The proposal is to increase to 158 campsites

over what's there now and 19 cabins as opposed to 16 and to change the existing conditions to allow year-round cabin use with a 30-day limit rather than prohibiting cabin use from November 15th to March 15th as the current conditions require.

This is the

conceptual plan for the special use permit use.

It's a little hard to read the scale, so I'll just show you various portions of it.

At the front, there's entrance area here, and the heavy dashed lines is the extent of work that would be done, including the addition of a commercial entrance, some additional parking, and a three-lane entrance and registration area at the front to allow incoming vehicles to be next to each other for registration so they don't back up

out toward the Federal Highway.

This dash and dot line here is the edge of the high gear floodplain and Stockton Creek is here at the southern end of this view.

You can see that there are some campsites in the floodplain.

At the southwest corner of the property, there are existing campsites.

The ones shown in the heavy dash here for the work to be done are ones that currently exist but were found to be extending into the 25 foot side setbacks so those will be moved inward slightly to make them compliant with the ordinance.

There's also three additional cabins here on top of the 16 that exist now.

And then at the southeastern corner is the largest area of expansion for the campground.

And there's a loop road with RV or camp sites in that area.

Sub-wounded areas to remain, some playgrounds, and also a couple of drain field and reserve areas for the septic fields for that new portion of the use.

You can also see

both here in the southeast corner and at the southwest corner, the applicants are proposing screening offenses that would be added to the existing vegetation there to block visibility of this area of the use from the surrounding properties.

So back in March, we had a community meeting.

It was an online community meeting and the attendees raised a few concerns, many of which were raised during the prior owner's operation of the campsite, including

noise from unregulated camping groups late at night trespassing by campers leaving the campground and walking around on adjacent properties and concerns about visibility and groundwater impacts from the expansion of the use.

The applicant took some time about five months after that community meeting to defer the application and revise and do some outreach to the nearby landowners.

So for the current proposal, special use permit criteria, looking at detriment to adjacent properties, the applicants have proposed screening fences between the uphill campground area and adjacent properties.

and have already installed warning signs stating essentially that anyone found to be trespassing on the adjacent properties will be asked to leave and not continue camping.

Regarding noise, we recommended a condition that we've used in other locations for large event uses, ensuring that the operation has a manager on site and that all of the nearby landowners have contact information so that they can reach

the campground manager directly at any time to let them know if there's an issue about noise.

Regarding that entrance, the applicants in doing the engineering on the site had found that it was likely to trigger the need for a left turn lane, but they were able to work with VDOT to get a design waiver by changing the internal design of the site

to accommodate a lot of that traffic so that there wouldn't have to be changes to Route 250 itself.

And I mentioned earlier the character of the redesigned entry area.

Regarding the floodplain, the original SP prohibited campsites in the floodplain.

Despite that, the previous owners and operators of the site placed tents and RV sites in the floodplain.

So here on the north side of Stockton Creek, there are RV sites.

The south side, there's a few tent sites in a wooded area next to the creek.

Staff's analysis was that while these sites are in the floodplain, sites in the floodplain are quite common in campgrounds around the state and around the region.

These particular floodplain sites have easy egress to get out of the floodplain if there is a flood situation so that it's not as if they're in a remote location or it'd be difficult to get the equipment or the people out of the floodplain area.

So that was not a significant concern for those sites to remain.

However, just to avoid

increasing the impacts, we did recommend that there be no further sites in the floodplain.

So under consistency with the comprehensive plan, this is a rural area site that being a campground needs a rural location to exist and operate.

The layout of the proposed site would minimize some impacts on the stream by locating any new development further from the stream.

And of course the

New expanded camping areas at the opposite end of the property from the entrance corridor and is quite well shielded by trees, so it's not going to be a visual impact on Route 250.

But it is also located adjacent to a property that is in the Yellow Mountain Ag 4 district that

Property meets this one at a corner at the northwest end on US 250.

And again, the impacts are at the opposite end of the property.

The Ag-Ford advisory committee voted to find that this does not conflict with the purposes of the districts.

So to summarize, the design and layout limits, scenic impacts, conceptual plan proposed an improved commercial entrance and road safety,

and the Ag4 district found that it did not conflict with that conservation program.

Concerns related to the request include concerns with noise impacts and trespassing, but we've tried to address that with

be fencing, the signage that the applicants voluntarily already placed, and the notification information.

So we do recommend approval with these four conditions.

I'll be happy to answer any questions you have.

Thank you, Mr. Clark.

Any questions for Seth?

Thank you, Chair.

So just a point of clarification in your report.

If we could look up on the first page, there is 47 acres and now 414.

Is that correct?

That's correct.

OK.

I apologize for that.

If that's what 414 looks like, I'm going to buy me some of that.

If there's a particular portion you want to see, I can go to zoom in here.

It looked like on the southern boundary you had a 35-foot setback, but on the eastern boundary there was a 25-foot setback on one of the... Right, side setback in the RA zoning district is 25, back is 35.

It's what on 35?

What is it?

The rear is 35.

In this case, the front's going to be up on 250, where it's 75.

OK, so why wouldn't the southern and the eastern be both 35?

Let's just look on one of the line gray.

And maybe line gray can talk about that if they come to speak on this issue.

But on one of the designs, it'll look like that says 30.

It does.

It says 25.

building restriction.

And on the other one, it says 35 buildings building restriction.

And just wondering why it's not this one.

Attachment 3C2.0.

Yeah.

That's consistent with what the RA zoning district setback requirements are.

I guess my question is, why wouldn't it be the same?

Why wouldn't it be both 35 and then give the eastern, because it seems like the house

The home is closest to the property as the eastern side, and that would give them at least 10 more feet of privacy plus offense.

Right, and this setback isn't really part of the proposal.

They're just reflecting what's already in the offense.

Oh, what's already there.

Okay.

OK.

And then my other comment is, hopefully, the applicant will tell us what type of fence.

So is it like a snow fence, or is it a cattle fence?

So they have some idea whether or not it's fencing that's going to actually go in.

I believe the applicants are going to address that in their presentation.

And so they'll do that.

And then if I understood it correctly, so the sites around Stockton Creek or river.

I don't know if it's Stockton Creek or a river or a creek.

We live out there.

There's a river or creek.

It says creek.

It's Stockton Creek.

It's right here.

Stockton Creek.

So, those are non-conforming uses right now.

Essentially, yeah, because those, there was a condition that there not be campsites in the floodplain.

And are we trying to correct that or we're just saying because people have the ability to know that there's going to be rising water that they can get themselves out of that condition.

Right.

And those, those campsites were built in violation of that condition of the SP but have been

that are already there and have been in operation for many years.

Commissioner Bivins covered most of my questions.

In terms of the new, are these some new vegetation that you're showing here along the western side?

There's quite a bit of vegetation along the edges here.

And I think from what I understand of the applicants,

The plan here was to leave that vegetation in place and augment it with a fence at the southwest and southeast corners.

I just had a couple of quick questions.

One was also about the fence, actually, but also whether there would be clearing.

Great, thanks.

Some of the neighbors just raised the general question, could there be an impact?

Great.

That's great.

I'll save the rest of the applicants.

Kind of tricky one.

So I listened in on the public hearing and there were a lot of complaints and it seemed like they mostly applied to the prior owners.

That's what I heard at the community meeting and occasionally just among emails since then was that a few years back when the prior owners had the place there was very little on-site management of, for example, tent camping groups that might have a party up in the woods at the southern end of the property.

might never be shut down for being far too noisy.

So things like that were happening.

There just didn't appear to be onsite management.

OK, I just wanted to clarify that because I was really appalled at the amount of terrible shenanigans that went on there and how disruptive that site was.

If it was the past owner coming tonight, I'd have to be a hard no.

I have to say I'm not thrilled about the campsites remaining in the floodplain.

And I don't know what can be done to improve that in terms of the stream health.

I know with the campsites right there, I know a lot of vegetation removal can occur and a lot of sediment can flow into that.

that creek.

Well, let's put a pin in that for our discussion here.

Did you have any questions, particularly for staff or no?

Okay.

Um, I did have one question.

It was kind of follow up on commissioner Firehock's comment.

Is there anything in the ordinance that kind of governs, I hate to say how, how noisy or loud a site can be, but,

Is there something that can stop someone from saying I had 15 Bud Lights, it's two in the morning and I want to play my music real loud, right?

Right, the provisions of the county noise, there are two places in the county code that deal with noise.

One is county code chapter 18, which is the zoning ordinance that deals with noise that's generated from particular land uses.

But also in chapter seven of the county code is the nuisance chapter of the county code that deals with noise generally that's not associated with any particular land use.

And to the extent that there were past complaints about noise being generated on this campground,

Obviously, any complainants can call the county police.

Or again, if it's related to a particular land use, code compliance officers can go out and investigate that.

I just want to say some of us are old enough to have tried to go to Woodstock.

And so I'm just having this sense of what the people living around Yassar's farm might have thought at this point.

Not that I'm saying that this particular location, which was once called Jellystone Park, would be the place that we would have sort of our own sort of revisiting of the Summer of Love.

You make things fun.

You do.

Applicant here.

Do you need help?

All right, looks like you're cooking now.

So you'll have 10 minutes and it'll start off with the green light and as it moves to yellow, that'll just mean that time is running out.

And so you can judge your presentation about what points you want to make quickly when you see that yellow light.

Thank you.

Thank you all for your time this evening.

My name is Kendra Moon.

I work with Lion & Grade.

We're the civil engineers for this project.

So Misty Mountain Camp Resort is located western Albemarle on Rockfish Gap Turnpike just past Greenwood Grocery.

It's obviously an existing campground.

which is only allowed by special use permit in the rural areas.

So currently there are 16 cabins, 105 campsites, two non-rentable dwelling units on site, and there are four prior special use permits associated with this site.

The one that we are requesting amendment to tonight is from the 1994 special use permit.

And this one, as Scott mentioned, allowed for 10 cabins, 112 campsites, and it required that the cabins not be used from mid-November to mid-March.

And I think that was to prohibit people from living at the campground.

So you'll note that while only 10 cabins are allowed, there are currently 16.

Again, this was previous owner built those cabins, but the current owner would like to rectify that and bring the site into compliance with the special use permit and zoning regulations.

So I will refer to the campsites as lower and upper campsites.

So shown on the top left corner are the lower campsites.

They're nearest to Rockfish Gap Turnpike and they're topographically lower on the site.

The upper campsites that are existing are amongst trees.

They're not visible from the road.

So the proposed use is still the same, but we're proposing to add cabins.

So we have 19 cabins on site, 158 campsites, and the two dwelling units will remain.

This is an increase in three cabins.

53 campsites.

And we're also proposing that the cabins be used year round, but limited to not more than 30 nights per stay to still prohibit people from living at the campgrounds.

So the proposed campsites will be upper campsites shown in the large circle.

I guess I have my mouse here.

I can point.

They will also be amongst the trees.

So kind of hidden, just like the existing ones in the lower left hand corner are.

and proposed cabins are shown here, three small cabins.

Well, one more thing I'll note.

This is a conceptual layout.

So we have gotten survey back since this layout and the campsites will shift subtly.

We may compact the area, but still aiming for the same number of campsites.

So for consistency with a comprehensive plan, the proposed use is consistent for many reasons I'll discuss, but the first of which is the preservation of natural resources.

So the viability of this campground is dependent on a healthy environment full of life and nature.

So it inherently shares the goal of preservation.

These pictures are borrowed from Missy Mountain's website, where they advertise fishing and playing in the creek.

Stockton Creek is an amenity to the campground and its health is important to them.

So tree preservation is also an important consideration of the design.

The campsites in the upper right hand corner that I mentioned there amongst the trees are not visible.

This is a drone image from Rockfish Gap facing the campsites.

So our proposed campsites will be

like the upper ones, not like the lower ones where trees are completely cleared.

We did have trees located by a surveyor, significant sized trees so that we can try to optimize our design around them and preserve as many trees as possible.

So this campground supports tourism in the area.

It is frequented by both local and non-local people who are looking to immerse themselves in nature.

It's a great place for people of all ages, but especially for children.

There will be minimal difference in traffic patterns.

I have shown here the peak hour trips in the evening, which is the most peak hour trips compared to the morning.

And there's only an increase of 15 trips to the site in the peak hour.

This is a 1.6% increase in peak hour traffic along Rockfish Gap Turnpike.

The site is able to operate without public sanitary sewer.

This is showing the upper campground area.

We had Draper Aiden on site to locate two existing drain fields.

For whatever reason, two drain fields were already installed but never used.

So we hope to use these drain fields.

One at least has already been permitted with VDH for 1900 gallons per day, which is almost, it's like more than half of what we need for these new sites.

So we're hoping to use those.

And then shown in yellow here are areas where a soils expert has identified there's suitable soil for additional drain fields if we need.

We find that the site, the proposed use on site is sustainable with the available groundwater.

Wells have already been drilled and have a sufficient yield to support the use.

There are water storage tanks on site that are used to reduce impact from peak demands.

And we're going to propose water storage tanks in the upper campsites that are built as well.

A study was conducted by Hydrogeo-Environmental to assess water availability within the watershed and whether the proposed increase of campsites will have an effect on the water availability.

A large surplus in the watershed was found and this proposed use

being as conservative as possible, they only found 0.1% decrease in the available water supply.

So, and this was assuming that there were six people at every campsite and that each campsite used 180 gallons per day.

So it was a very conservative estimate.

We don't actually think that much water would be used.

Major goal of the owner has been to minimize impacts on the adjacent neighbors.

So as Scott mentioned, after the community meeting, we deferred and he took time to meet with the neighbors and in some cases even walked their site with them to literally see through their eyes like campground.

And we actually proposed, we removed some of the proposed campsites along the southeastern edge of the property after he walked the site with a neighbor and said like, oh no, we shouldn't put campsites there.

So he's very sensitive to the topics of privacy, noise and light pollution and trespassing.

So we're proposing screening fences in the southeastern and southwestern portion of the property.

The screening fence, to answer your question, is eight feet tall, solid wood, painted black.

We're proposing some screening vegetation in the lower campsite area and relocation of some campsites outside of the side setbacks to bring them into conformance.

and no trespassing signs like the one shown has actually already been installed on site.

And these let campers be aware that if they trespass, they will be removed from the campgrounds immediately and no longer allowed back in the future.

So shown in orange are the screening fence locations and then shown in blue are the

campsites that will be moved, but they're not new campsites.

And shown in green is the area of proposed vegetation, some evergreen, possibly cedar trees.

And even though these are shielding existing campsites, but this was discussed with the neighbor of the property on the left, and he wanted some trees there, so we're proposing trees there.

All right, thank you.

Any questions for the applicant?

I do.

So thank you, Chair.

So on page four,

where it has, you have a bullet point that says SP 2010-44 five-year extension of SP 2009-16 to continue allowing an annual music festival.

Has that been

Has that been lifted so that the property now may have an annual, or are we still in a five-year chunk, five-year reviewing every year?

I believe the expiration date was just removed, but I'll double check that while we're talking.

So we may not be in that any longer.

So they may have the ability to just have an annual event.

This is for council.

Well, so one of the conditions that I think we have is that people would not be able to be there long term.

So they have 30 day turnarounds, you know, basically like I think we have our homestays.

And so, but however, what I've been seeing in places where I've been traveling recently is that

Certainly nothing, I'm not trying to cast any dispersions on this particular applicant, but I've been seeing places where people been bringing sort of fifth wheel RVs and they're living there and they're doing stuff, whether or not they're doing construction or if that's just because of life where they're living.

Well, technically, that'd be correct.

Thank you.

Just one of us.

That's what we're talking about.

Can I make a comment on that really quick?

Is that okay?

I just would like to address that specific question.

If you state your name.

Sure, I'm Andrew Baldwin.

I'm the current owner of Misty Mountain Campground.

And Andrew who, sir?

Baldwin, D-A-L-D-W-I-N.

And my partner, John Prisoff, is also here.

Very specific, important question.

Right now we are primarily a seasonal campground, meaning it's mostly weekend warriors, if you will.

And then everyone leaves on Monday and they come back on Thursday and they leave again on Monday.

In the past, to help suffice economically speaking, through the winter months in the upper campground, the previous owner was allowing people to stay there and even had some year round.

We are a busy campground.

It's a family campground.

The first thing we decided when we bought the campground was that we no longer needed long-term stay, so we limited that to short-term because we wanted it to be a very transient campground.

That said, right now the Lower Park has people who are staying or planning to stay for roughly 30-day stints.

Some may come and go.

And that does help with an economic viability.

So if there's a wording very specific to what we all collectively decide maybe should be considered or done, we're very open to that.

We do want to keep that, obviously, that viability as the very slow months hit because the campground operates on a pretty big budget.

So when the slow season hits, it certainly helps.

But

Anyway, as you can tell, we're not in a rush.

We've been five, six months just planning to get to this point.

We're not in any rush to get past you tonight.

But I just wanted us to understand that there is the ability to go away.

So I was not trying to cast dispersion on the application, but just trying to give us a sense of what we were doing there.

And are we sure now that they could do their one year?

There's no expiration date, so you can bring me back to my summer of law once a year.

Moon, could you give us, what are the non-rentable structures there for?

What do they do?

Mm-hmm.

Two full-time staff, the park manager and another staff member live full-time here around.

There's one up here and one here.

Thank you, Chair.

Just to clarify, the upper home, which the mouse is currently on, was the previous camp owner's home.

He lived there full time, which probably had something to do with awareness and

reaction to certain things that went on without saying too much.

And the home in the front was, I believe, the neighboring property was, I believe, a military hospital at one point for the Civil War.

And that home was what we believe to be an office to that.

It is still an old, very original, cool structure that one of our employees lives in.

And those are the two full-time staff members who live on site.

So they are there all the time.

Got it.

Got a couple of quick questions.

Thanks for the presentation.

You mentioned the screening fence, clarified that, that was great.

No, currently, actually one of the photos had a bamboo fence, which borders the Brody's farm.

That fence is being removed and replaced with this very new eight foot screening fence.

The other is basically replacing what's an old pollen that's actually in the crowd today.

I spent a lot of time with him at his farm,

There's an old barbed wire fence that were basically some hand clearing.

Maybe a tree or two does need to be removed to get the fence in on obviously a straight line, but for the most part, we've got it to the point where we think that it's adequate, but I think you'll hear tonight from neighbors that maybe we need additional, which we're open to.

We can go as far as we need to go with it.

Great.

We heard some pretty crazy stories from years past from people leaving the campground, which we no longer will tolerate or allow and then plan to mitigate it.

So we have a very strict zero tolerance rule now, and we tell people when they check in,

Thank you.

And then only other one question is on traffic.

It mentions the fact that you have a waiver from VDOT.

but I had difficulty understanding how you're accommodating that on the interior.

I'll address that in two ways.

First, that's not necessarily why the waiver was approved or how we're, that's just one way that we're trying to accommodate traffic to the site because we don't want the situation where multiple RVs are trying to check in on a busy Friday and backing up into the road.

But the waiver was approved

for other reasons because of impacts to neighboring properties if we were to put a turn lane and stony run, yeah, easements mostly.

But we're proposing to improve the entrance with multiple lanes so that

It's a little better flow in the entrance area.

Yeah.

Right after we bought the campground is one of the things that set out the most to me.

We both live two miles from the campground.

He's actually a mile or less.

and there were times on Fridays where I was driving home where I noticed we'd have three or four RBs stacked to turn in.

And the problem was, is they were pulling up in front of the camp store, parking, getting out with disregard to traffic.

We have signage now that requires you to pull up to a certain point so we can actually triple stack or quadruple stack to help mitigate that.

Yeah.

Got it.

Thank you.

So for the campsites that are nonconforming, that are in the floodplain, and I understand you didn't put them there yourselves, but do you have any images showing the condition of the creek or the site there?

Sure, sure.

That's a great question on the

on the opposite side of 250 Creek, whatever border that is, it's only 10 campsites.

There's no actual, it's just a couple third spots where people can camp.

On the infrastructure side of the Creek, on the 250 side of the Creek, these are gravel spots that kind of back up to the Creek.

From what we can tell in two years of owning, or a year and a half roughly, is that it is the way that it's been for a long time.

But we also have looked into stream restoration credits, further vegetation.

But it is, you know, I would encourage any one of you to come out to the campground anytime you'd like and see that creek.

It's very clean.

It's very well cared for.

We take a lot of time to maintain the creek edges, so on and so forth.

and have even restored some of the old retaining wall and things that were along the pond that adjoins the creek.

So that is our best natural asset to anyone who comes to the campground.

So it's obviously something that we want to take very good care of.

So to answer your question, I think it's vegetated well.

But like anything, it can be improved.

So we're certainly open to further mitigation or looks into that.

So we're in a process of taking everything in.

When we inherited this campground, there were obvious violations.

There were obviously a lot of misconduct going on over the years, which we've heard the neighbors stories about.

And so I said, let's take time.

Let's take a year.

Let's take two years.

Let's get it conforming.

Let's address those interior concerns first, then we can address neighbor concerns following, and then we can work towards a plan that really works for everybody.

OK, we'll probably return to that in a minute.

Did you want to also make a comment?

Yeah, there's one photo of the stream.

I also want to clarify, we did meet with a consultant to ask if this would be a good candidate for stream restoration, and they actually advised us that it would not.

So we did look into the possibility of stream restoration, but we don't think because there's not like erosion or I think the best thing we could do is propose some more vegetation.

We are proposing a

I will say beyond that picture heading downstream uh unfortunately as you all are well aware of the ash borer beetle impact on the ash trees we have lost a decent amount of ash trees in that area so I think it

Yeah, I mean, just be very brief.

My background is in stream habitat restoration.

That's what I'm professionally certified in.

The thing is that I can see a lot of opportunity for fixing some of this creek in this very photo.

I cannot design a creek restoration from the dais, nor does my intention, but because you have some nonconforming campsites and this is a special use permit which can be conditioned, we might try to word something that

asks you to take a look at adding additional vegetables, stabilizing vegetation along stream banks.

I understand it's a heavily visited site, it gets trampled, so you have to be considerate, but if you don't plant the next generation, those grandchildren trees, then you're going to see over time just continually losing more trees into that creek and

Just to dovetail on that, it's not just woody vegetation and trees, but also herbaceous native vegetation.

I see a lot of those areas are mowed right to the edge of the stream.

increasing the amount of native herbaceous vegetation in there and also having some areas where people don't walk next to the stream.

So you have controlled access points to the stream and not everyone walking everywhere along the stream.

So there's some things and I mean one suggestion that I would probably put forward is that we do have some

qualified staff that deal in erosion and sediment.

The South Bank

opposite that developed campground area is pretty well vegetated.

The creek is fairly incised and probably has been since before there was a campground there, so the banks are kind of steep.

But on the other hand, that does mean that even though those are floodplain sites, they're not likely to get flooded.

Despite being close to the creek, because the creek is lower, you know, lower than the floodplain surface than it should be because of the degree to which it's incised.

Yeah, that's it.

The only other thing I'd say there too is, I mean, an obvious thing, but just be very careful with fertilizer on your site.

I just have one question operationally.

I've not experienced it camping.

I've heard of glamping.

I might try that one day.

I haven't done camping yet.

There is, yeah.

So the onsite managers, one lives in the lower camp.

So he's literally adjacent to everything going on in the campground and then the upper camp manager.

a gentleman named Darren Swedenborg and his wife Glenda live in that house.

And, um, they do cruise through the sites at night.

Uh, we do, uh, you know, we were lights out and 10 o'clock kind of, kind of wind down for the sites.

Uh, not that people don't stay up a little bit later and sit around the campfire and all the things that you would want to enjoy as a, as a, as a camper.

Um, but for the most part, we try to, to really wind down and I think,

with the exception of a few weekends and obviously our one event a year, the Missy Mountain Music Festival.

That is, it's pretty, pretty quiet there after night.

But again, I know years past have had

Thank you for answering all of our questions.

If we have no more up here, we'll take it to the public.

When you come, you'll have three minutes to speak and you'll see that green light pop on when your time starts.

And as it moves to yellow, this means time is running down.

So try to make your most pertinent points as quickly as possible there.

So I'll also ask for some compassion if I mispronounce your name.

Thank you.

My name is James Rovnak.

I live at 6861 Castleberry Court in the Samuel Miller Magisterial District.

My home is directly opposite the array of some 50-odd new campsites in the plan.

Functionally, this is an RV parking lot and motel.

On page seven of the plan, I strongly object to the characterization of impact on our property as minimal.

This is after some vague words about screening.

We will see and hear the comings and goings of campsite residents and can already see quite a lot.

For example, we could see and hear the drilling of a well

which was not very far from our property line.

The well lies inside this loop road.

If you remember the picture on page 12 of the plan, there's a loop road that kind of outlines the new campsites.

The well is inside that meaning that the road itself is even closer

to our property line.

And we will have a fantastic view of the backside of the bath house, which is outside the loop, and they're still closer to our property line.

I suppose that will be behind a screen.

This does not in itself please me.

There's much that we will see.

The land rises above there.

Screens will not cut out everything.

So what we see and hear now will only be amplified when they start clearing trees and low growth to make room for the loop road and for all these campsite and these large RVs.

We participated in the community meeting on March 29 and aired our concerns and so did others.

Some got attention according to a memorandum dated September 19.

Responding to a request from staff on screening fences in one case at least the owner states that he has met with each neighbor one-on-one and describes a resolution.

We heard nothing between March and late December when we received a notice of this meeting.

Our privacy is compromised by the plan and I have safety concerns.

A transient population will be able to see and hear our comings and goings when we turn the lights out at night to go to bed.

Because of the topography, no screening can mitigate this.

If somebody comes out and see, you would see over any screening fence in most locations.

I urge rejection of the plan.

This is unsuitable for the type of residential area that we have.

Okay, thank you, sir.

We'll have to move on.

Thank you.

Thank you for allowing us to speak.

I'm Virginia Rovnak, I live at 6861 Castleberry Court.

I'm married to James in the Samuel Miller district on property immediately adjacent to the Misty Mountain property.

I do not approve of the addition of campsites and cabins to the property.

On a busy weekend with an average occupancy of two people per campsite or cabin, there could be as many as 354 visitors on the property.

I'm concerned about safety with that many people over there.

Our house is out in the open.

It's highly visible.

and easily seen from the campground.

It would be very easy for someone in the campground to observe our activities and vandalize, rob or assault us.

My husband and I are in our 80s and we are easy marks for someone with ill intent.

Warning signs are not going to deter such a person.

If the county allows this expansion, I ask the county to require a people-proof fence around the entire property.

If an assailant or robber or vandal at the campground

cannot come to us directly, but has to go out on 250, go around to Burgess Creek Road, then up Castleberry Court, and then up our long driveway before reaching our house.

Well, that's not so inviting.

Right now, there are places along our boundary and our neighbor's boundary where it is very easy to walk over quickly from the campground and walk back quickly.

One time someone walked over in that way with a kitten that he'd found and wondered if it was ours.

As I repeat, I want a people proof fence around the entire property.

I also have grave concerns about water supply.

We have lived there for 24 years and in that time there have been droughts.

We were very careful about our water use and did not run out, but there are two of us on a well.

If the campground is pumping out water for 350 people, we might run out next time.

Who pays if an adjacent property makes us run dry?

A high flow now does not mean there will be a high flow in a drought.

I've seen Stockton Creek when the flow was about how much you would get from a small hose.

In sum, I oppose the project for reasons of safety, of person and property, and for the drain on our water supply.

Thank you for this time to let me speak.

My name is Colin Tillman.

I'm the property owner to the south of the campground.

I'm the guy with all the stories about the people who have come over and trespassed on our property from the campground.

We acquired it in 95 after a death family member and we've gone through three owners.

Andrew is by far the best.

He has made changes and he's helped, but I need to tell you just a little brief about some stories that have happened to me from the campground, all of which have happened in the past since he's taken it over.

I've had two trespassers and one drone pilot that had to come get his drone.

So things are way better now.

But I've gone through, first in 95, the campground owner called the police on me for target practicing on my property.

I've got a farm.

I have cows.

And I believe that the campground has a right to do their business.

I've got a right to do mine.

I should not have any of my business spill over on them.

They should not have business spilling over on me.

what I believe.

Now, I've asked all three of the owners to create a situation where their business didn't come on me.

If my cows get out and they go on a campground, go over on a neighbor's property, I take care of it right away.

But what has happened is that frequently the campers come over, they call the police on me for doing completely legal things.

The cops come with the guns pointed at me.

One time they came six deep with a dog because a camper had called on me.

I had asked them to stop trespassing on me.

They would not.

One other time, a crack party going on, and I know it was because I went over and looked at it, called the police at 1130, 1230, 130.

They didn't come up to do anything because they had to get out of their car because they couldn't get through the campground gate.

And I think that's just atrocious.

So what I have gone through in the last few years has become breaking points for me as a property owner.

And now Andrew has done a much better job.

After meeting with him, he made the first effort to put the signs up.

There are not many of them, but they're there.

and I think that has helped.

But I think what should be done is, as the road man says, we should be able to keep our business on our side and their business on the other.

And that, I realize my time's expired, but if police show up with guns pointed at me again, then I'm right out of this county after six generations.

Hi, I'm Kathy Hunt, Samuel Miller District, and I live on Castleberry Court next to the Romney Act.

And I just want to reinforce and ask for the same kind of safety precautions that are concerned for us and for our neighbors who have experienced.

They're a little bit closer to the site and I think have a little bit more, but we would also, if this has to go through, then ask for, as Virginia asked, the people-proof fencing.

to keep people, you know, everybody on their side and to keep us all safe.

And also in regards to the fencing and the mention that people had been contacted and approved the fencing, we have not been

I had the opportunity to review any of the fencing plans or what's available, where it's going to be.

Sort of a little confused about just how far it was supposed to go.

We're on the, I guess, southwest side, so just would like an opportunity to be able to look at that and to review the plan a little closer at the website and just see how much vegetation is actually coming out for that.

Dan Hutt.

I live in Castleberry Court in the Samuel Miller District and I'm an adjacent property owner to Misty Mountain.

My involvement with this consists of a couple of notices that we got from the county and I participated in the community meeting

that was held back on March 29th.

And during that meeting, I think what you've heard from some of the other property owners is we express a number of concerns that we had with the plan that was shown to us

And I went back and listened to that recording today just to refresh my memory.

And some of the same issues that we raised back in March are still, as you probably heard tonight, are still open.

Those issues have not been addressed.

And I won't go through each of them because the other folks have done that.

And so what we're going to ask tonight is that you defer action on this application and ask the county, direct the county to go back and do what they committed to do in that community meeting, which was to make sure that our issues are addressed before any plan is presented to this commission.

Thank you.

Is there anyone else in the audience that would like to speak to this proposal?

Yes, I have one person, Anne Roll.

Anne, please state your name and address, where you're located, and if you are affiliated with a group or organization.

And your time starts when you start speaking.

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

Yes, my name is Anna Roll.

I grew up in one of the adjacent properties

and my family lives on that property to this day.

The address is 6867 Rockfish Gap Turnpike in Greenwood, Virginia.

I'm not affiliated with any organization.

Growing up on an adjacent property, I too remember the problems under the previous owner of the campground and I appreciate this opportunity today.

I do have some additional questions about the proposed greening fence.

So one thing, just the appearance of it, the eight feet made of wood sounds appealing, but I don't understand why painting it black.

That seems like an odd choice when natural wood could look far better.

And despite seeing the maps on the presentation, it does not appear that the screening fence is intended to be placed at all adjacent properties and residences adjoining the campground.

I would think that shortly near the entrance with all the proposed increased activity would be another place where a screening fence would be required.

Just in general concerns about the increased traffic, for one thing would that also come with it as comparable increase in campfires and the smoke also drifting onto adjacent properties in addition to the other concerns that have been raised tonight

and also the additional foot traffic with respect to Stockton Creek.

I know that it's been talked about how that won't be impacted negatively by the proposal.

And I understand that it is a shared goal with the current owner and the applicant to preserve the creek and the large trees on the property as one of the selling points of the campsite.

However, I think it's an issue that's so important that it really bears

I'll just take an extra minute and say one last thing.

Like I said, my partner and I, we lived in Greenwood.

My wife grew up there.

She was born and raised there.

I grew up in Charlottesville.

I've been here my entire life.

We want to do everything in our power to be the best neighbors that we can be.

And to whatever extent that takes, we're willing to hear it and listen to it.

I think it probably comes as a shock based on previous ownership and some of the stories we've heard.

So I understand gaining trust takes time.

So anyway, that said, we're here, we're listening, and we're happy to.

to take anything into consideration.

And like I said, we're not in a rush.

So we're interested in the commission's feedback and certainly staff as we move forward.

Like Kendra said, we actually have taken the plan that you saw tonight and have condensed it further so that we can still create a larger screening natural buffer.

That entire area where they proposed expansion is mature woods.

This is not early new growth.

These are 50 plus year old trees in a lot of instances.

So we're going to do everything in our ability.

There's currently an open space camp

if you look at the aerial photo there's a lot of boy scout groups etc that use that space now and we're really trying to enhance that and like I said just be good neighbors.

So I'll close with that and appreciate the commission's time.

Thank you.

With that I'm going to close the public hearing.

And I'm also going to use chairs privilege because I need to stretch my legs.

And we're going to take a six minute recess if that sounds okay.

So six minutes, that means we'll be back on the clock at 843.

So thank you.

All right, we will, Madam IT professional, we're good?

Oh, okay.

Welcome back.

We have closed the public hearing and we're bringing it back to ourselves.

I have jotted down a few things that I've heard that as Commissioner Bivins would say we need to wrestle with.

I'll share those things and then the commission can happily add to those and we can decide how we want to wrestle these things to the ground and come to a conclusion.

The things that I had jotted down was the 30 nights per stay.

I had the floodplain and existing structures.

And the way I phrased this last one was the vegetation feasibility, if you will, along the stream banks.

And then just as an overarching kind of theme, like the volatility of the relationship between the campground and adjacent owners, it really goes like who's owning it.

We've had measures in place and it seems like they didn't really hold up.

And so it really just depends on who is owning the campground as just kind of an overarching kind of theme to it.

Gotcha, gotcha.