Planning Commission Regular Meeting   9/27/2022

If you could just call the roll and maybe the easiest way to do that is to just go down the line, starting with Luis, just say your name and present.

I can call the roll if you want me to.

Okay, I didn't mean to minimize you, just trying to make it easy, but go ahead.

Firehock?

I am present.

Mr. Missel?

Here.

Mr. Carrazana?

Here.

Mr. Bivins?

Rounded.

Mr. Murray?

Here.

Okay, we have established a quorum.

Sorry about that.

Never mind over here.

Okay, is there a motion to accept the consent agenda?

Moved.

Is there a second?

Second.

Carolyn, can you call the vote?

Mr. Clayborne.

Aye.

Mr. Bivins.

Aye.

Mr. Missel.

Aye.

Mr. Carrazana.

Yes.

The first public hearing scheduled is for SB 202200003, Daylily Preschool.

May we have the staff report?

Thank you.

Mr. Bivins?

Can you give us a sense of what staff's position was on having a census of 50 students?

And when the applicant resubmitted with a number of 35, they thought there was sufficient space on site for the pickup and parking for those students.

But I'm also assuming there was probably not a traffic study done there.

No, there's no traffic study done at this time.

I was struggling with what the deal was that we couldn't have just immediately go to 50 as opposed to having.

Yeah, it's just like.

But I will be quiet for a moment and wait until later to push my point.

All right, go ahead.

I should know this.

There's no existing site plan on site.

Who will be responsible for making sure you know accessibility right with the parking spots or how they get to the buildings right from their car?

Sure there will be building permits required before the preschool opens and also zoning clearance so the inspections department and at least zoning will be out there inspecting the site to make sure it's safe and accessible.

How do you know how many handicapped spots you need or just want to close that loop?

was typically concerning on this.

As far as closing the gap, that would probably be what's required in this case because there isn't anything that's triggering the need for a site plan.

Thank you.

Any other questions for staff is good.

I just have a quick question about water and sewer and just looking through the information I know there was correspondence back in June and July about this and it's not that much of an increase in student body but do you know whether or not they have the water and sewer necessary and at what point does that get confirmed?

Perfect, thank you.

You can bend that down.

Is that it?

We have to go through the motions, even though I don't see anyone from the public is going to come and testify, but go ahead.

So can you tell me in the, from the house which is behind, sort of behind and to the right of the church, I assume that's what we're talking about there.

Yes.

Okay, will there be a path until you get the, will there be a path from there to the existing playground or are you only going to concern, put a new playground in and all that activity, child activity will take place at the house, new daycare center?

So we would use both.

And so you'd have some path to get the younger children up there without having to use the driveway?

It's just grass that goes across.

Could you accommodate 50 students under what you might envision the staffing and the structure?

But other than that, I felt like I could make it work in this space.

Well, I would just sort of add, assume when they have church there, they have more, at least 50 people there on a Sunday.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Okay.

Thank you.

All right.

How far out in the future does 35 kind of get you in terms of your growth and so forth, if you have the estimate?

So my thought is I wouldn't have an issue filling it, and I think it could be a possibility that I try again, if that's your question.

Like what percentage if you had to guess are being picked up out of those 35 to 50 kids are being picked up if you had to guess for each one of those?

OK.

And that'd be all for my questions.

And so it's a very similar demographic as to those children that attend those elementary schools.

Any goals to change that or?

I think a little bit of it's just getting the travel to us might be a challenge, but I'd be happy to look into that.

Okay, another question.

Before that gets inked as a condition, is that suitable or do you have, I mean, you know, young to five-year-olds, but do you have other events on weekends that you might want to have that flexibility to have it open at other times for special events or whatever?

When we do a special event, we usually do it during the week, during the school week.

Okay, thanks.

All right, so is there anyone from the public who would like to speak?

Not on the Zoom call, there's not.

Is there anything else that you would like to tell us before we deliberate amongst ourselves?

So that's the plan to continue.

Okay.

Thank you.

And if there is some way that we could avoid that.

I want to just sort of have some conversation about that.

It disappeared it.

You wanted a conceptual plan?

So that's the only thing, Chair, that I would like us to give some consideration to.

Would staff like to give them a chance to respond?

It didn't appear that you could park multiple cars in that space.

Yeah, siblings are Brownsville Elementary School, you know, district and, you know, there's little Johnny and little Sarah.

Okay.

So it doesn't sound like there's an obvious solution at hand to the stacking problem at this time, but it does sound salvable to me, but.

I'm sorry, I didn't hear the last time.

It doesn't sound like it.

We do keep that in mind when we work with these facilities because we have some that come back multiple times.

Mr. Murray.

Yeah, just looking at that intersection, when 810 is closed, that's one of the few alternative routes to get back to Crozet.

For those of us who don't live in the neighborhood, that's 810.

And that turn is particularly sketchy.

Yeah, it's hard.

And so it is quite a sketchy term.

You have value to it.

Put that Jeep in four-wheel drive and just gun it.

So all right.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

Yes.

Potentially.

Are the conditions different than the conditions in the staff report?

I'm just referencing in case you wanted to pick any of those.

I move to recommend approval of SP 2022-00003 Daylily Preschool with Conditions as recommended in the staff report.

Is there a second?

Second.

Hearing no further discussion requested, can we have the roll call please, Carolyn?

Mr. Clayborne.

Aye.

Mr. Missel.

Aye.

Mr. Bivins.

Aye.

Mr. Carrazona.

Aye.

Thank you.

We'll give staff a second to get situated there.

Is the intent to make the single public hearing for each of these special use permit applications?

The next two coming up?

But my suggestion, if it's amenable to both the commission and the presenter, is that they just be combined into a single public hearing.

So would we hear both presentations and then have the one public hearing?

Yes, ma'am.

So we'll hear the first one now.

When you get to that point, I didn't add the placeholder question slide, but I'm ready for any questions should you have any of staff before you get to the applicants.

Go ahead.

There are no proffers associated with this, right?

That's correct.

I'm just curious what the timing is relative to that.

I just think we'll let them address that.

Great, thank you.

All right, other questions?

Go ahead, sorry.

It's sort of analogy.

He said Joni Mitchell.

Or what I'm hoping to hear is that if there is someone to development, that they can put parking, relegated parking under a building, if that should happen here.

I looked at it as, you know, we're allowing the school, you know, this would allow the option for the school to use it for just parking when they need it, but it doesn't preclude it from future development either, right?

So it will remain C1, just it'll have a special use as a parking area.

So as far as losing C1, we designated it urban density in the master plan.

And my piece is I have to make a stink about that if we're losing C1 property.

That's your job.

I know that the applicant will help me with my job.

Any other questions for staff?

Okay, if not, we're ready to hear from the applicant.

And then I'll finish up and address a few of the questions and clarify a few other points, if I may.

OK, thank you.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Sounds like you all are clear on everything, and I won't take up time unnecessarily.

We'll start with Lonnie.

We greatly appreciate it.

Thank you.

Absolutely.

Well, and I imagine the new stormwater regulations would probably incentivize that.

They would, although, yeah.

Thank you.

We'll go, we'll just go this.

Will there be an internal or there'll be a site specific or a site contained way to get people so people can communicate between the two buildings so they can walk without having to use the external sidewalk?

Yes, we haven't really gotten to that point yet, but obviously during, you can see there, the bus circulation route, but otherwise, and again, they haven't gotten to that parking lot yet, recognizing that will be an important issue to help everybody walk through that parking lot safely.

So as my colleague is talking about green space, just recognize you've got a group of geese that believe that that belongs to them.

You're not representing that this year.

I'm talking about the proposed sidewalk, the proposed parking lot.

I have, I'm familiar with the geese problem over on sort of the opposite, the opposite end of Hillsdale, but I didn't realize it was extended this far.

That location there, there's a, there's a geese gang that, that Okay.

If I understood the recommendation, we would now go on to the second presentation and then we would have one public hearing.

It was my understanding that there was a single presentation by both staff and the applicant.

That's correct.

The intent was to combine them into a single.

I just didn't know if I had to then call up the next letters and say, now we're talking.

The only thing that would be separate are the motions for each of the separate special use permits.

So bringing it back to ourselves for discussion, thoughts from the commission.

And so this becomes an alternative.

Future traffic volume, right.

And that this is going to be a perfect place for somebody to have a commercial office space there that goes with the other side of that development, not necessarily for them.

Are we going to make an apartment building with commercial space on the bottom?

I'm so there.

Wish you were willing to make the first one.

Virginia Institute of Autism, expansion for the reasons stated in the staff report and with the staff recommended conditions.

Is that correct?

Yes.

OK.

My apologies.

Well, it's misprinted on the screen, but just to clarify.

It's correct in your agenda so we're not in trouble.

Is that correct, Mr. Missel?

Yes, that was correct.

Is there a second?

Second.

Hearing and seeing none, I will go ahead and ask if we can call the vote, please.

Mr. Bivins?

Aye.

Mr. Missel?

Aye.

Mr. Carrazana?

Aye.

Mr. Murray?

Aye.

Mr. Clayborne?

Aye.

Thank you.

Would someone like to make a motion for that?

So moved.

Is there a second?

That is absolutely my motion.

Hearing none, Carolyn, would you call the vote?

Mr. Clayborne?

Aye.

Mr. Murray?

Aye.

Mr. Carrazana?

Aye.

Mr. Missel?

Aye.

Mr. Bivins?

Aye.

Thank you.

Do you have a committee report for us of any kind?

Although Mr. McDermott's not here, but he tried.

I don't know what that means, but keep going.

Yeah, he threw me off.

Okay, sorry.

So a lot of that conversation was around.

Does this need to be another conversation between Mr. Rapp and their representative to figure that out?

Mr. Rapp in there.

Charles Rapp is our scheduling to figure out the schedule of the comp plan and how they could.

So I think he is going to work to help coordinate that.

Perfect.

Did you have a CAC meeting?

We did, we had a fifth street at Avon Street CAC that I was not able to attend.

One quick question on that.

and I can look at it in the master plan, but have they looked at potentially relocating some of the services that apps don't need to be.

Make sure that's coming into your mic.

which I don't believe that Monticello or Western would allow a bus depot on their campuses and so I'm hoping as it starts to roll out that all of those environmental concerned people will just stand up and say this is the right decision to move those facilities off of that campus.

So with that, I'll pass the baton.

So I'm on the bad list at the moment.

Mr. Murray?

And we are waiting what that contractor tells us that stream is, or if it's a stream.

I'm just saying that there's been a lot of strange claims floating around.

So we can leave it for when it comes back before the Commission to have a fuller discussion.

So is that it?

Yes.

Do you know if the county is rehiring?

That's our hope.

OK.

Yes.

Okay, great.

And the board approved that as well.

And they still call it the Heritage?

We're working on that.

Could you mention more about the sunset clause?

It was extended to July 2027, which the site would be available for purchase by the county until that date, which works with the school.

This is the school site, remember?

OK, thank you.

is to talk about the draft planning commission rules of procedure.

So again, if the commission is interested, my recommendation would be that there be a motion made and approved to put the approval of the revised rules on the next meeting agenda.

So we need a motion to put this on the October 11th meeting agenda.

At the next meeting, yes.

At the next meeting.

So the next available meeting, presumably October 11th, would be the time at which there'd be a vote on the revised rules if the commission is interested in pursuing it.

And would the vote, whatever that meeting is, take place at the beginning of the meeting and then be in effect for that meeting?

The Planning Commission already has a remote participation policy that allows that, so it's not necessary to make that first on the next meeting agenda.

So we do need to make a motion to consider this.

To put this on the next meeting agenda, yes ma'am.

Okay, so is there a motion to include this on the next available meeting of the Planning Commission?

So moved.

Is there a second?

Second.

Carolyn, can we call the vote?

Mr. Bivins?

Yes.

Mr. Clayborne.

Aye.

Mr. Missel.

Aye.

Mr. Carrazana.

Yes.

So I will be completely gone.

We can come in and give you a hard time.

I've already asked Mr. Bivins if he's willing and able.

Yes, ma'am.

You can decide that at the time, depending on what his remote situation is like.

But just as a reminder, there does need to be a quorum physically present.

So it'll be one, two, three.

No quorum, so no October 11th meeting.

I'm sorry, I have to present to a board on a vote.

Fortunately, it's not something I could change.

So we

I mean, I don't know what the board's schedule is for appointing the vacant commissioner.

I mean, I suppose if they can... That's been part of the problem is that we don't have that position filled, and so this will be a second time.

I mean, it's conceivable, but if the vacancy is appointed before October 11th, then that could be the fourth person for the quorum, but I can't speak to that.

There's a cell tower for my district, actually.

But we'll figure it out.

So maybe there's already someone appointed.

Is it possible or within the rules to move a meeting like the third Tuesday, like in a case like this, so you're not pushing somebody?

But we'll take a look at that.

So I remarked that our supervisors for the Southwood were able to give themselves some space after the public hearing

And I would feel more comfortable being able to hear the rich bounty or receive the rich bounty of public comment, but not have to vote at that particular moment to be able to vote after I've had a moment to reflect on it privately away from the rich conversation.

But you would have already heard a lot of the thoughts and had time to reflect and research and ponder and whatnot.

Yeah, I would say that that would, at least coming from sort of the position of an applicant in the past, you know, it's, that would probably be a better scenario than having a delay between when the public hearing occurs and the deliberation and then the vote, pushing that another, pushing that out further.

I mean, if we're having a public hearing, we're having a public hearing, but you know, you could have, there are some items that make sense for a work session and comprehensive plan policies are a perfect example of that.

So if the commission wishes to build an additional time for consideration, my suggestion would be, and this would be something that would have to be coordinated with staff, but that realizing that the vote, a final vote has to be taken within that 90 days, then you would schedule backwards a public hearing further back.

further back from the deadline.

Rather than, say, scheduling a public hearing at the last available date before the 90th day, you would schedule the vote on the last available date before the 90th day, but then the public hearing may be at the Planning Commission meeting before that.

Yeah, is it possible to segment a public hearing and a vote on an item?

It is, it is, as long as the deadlines are met.

Okay, that's interesting.

A public hearing must be held, but the vote need not take place on the night of the public hearing.

items where I wished I would have had more time to go.

And they'll often just ask at the last minute, like we did for Old Ivy, I believe it was, you know, they're deliberating with their client.

Oh, so there's the issues about you personally, but what does that have to do with the land use and the conflating of all that for me personally?

So the Board of Supervisors has one year minus the 90 days that the Planning Commission has.

Just a moment to be able to think about what I've just heard.

And because they were not the applicant, they were like, I'm a citizen, but I researched the OSHA regs and I said this or whatever they said.

I mean, if the applicant does not agree to a deferral, then the Planning Commission has no choice but to take the vote.

And then the day before we get 50 emails and all of a sudden something's bubbled up and it's now this big thing that we thought was not a big deal.

Is that typically, I mean, we don't seem to get a lot of public work.

Um, so I'll, I'll talk with, with Charles Rapp about that as I mean, there are probably ones in the pipeline even now that.

We won't cover them all but I think if there's some that we know that we would benefit and again I think the Board of Supervisors would benefit, the county would benefit if we had a little bit of space to grasp our thoughts and then I don't know how that comes in terms of the deliberation next meeting we would have to have the deliberation but we would be you know I think better prepared to do that.

This isn't a deferral.

So my understanding is we have, so what we need to do is work with

But I think we, you know, obviously I'm taking lots of notes because Charles couldn't be here and

We can discuss it again.

Mr. Rapp and talk with him about those expectations and our staff resources.

I'll follow up with him.

We want to be very conscious of that.

things on them and you guys do too.

Thank you.

All right, with that, I think we did everything we were supposed to do.

It sounds like we're going to need to have that meeting, if we can.

We'll all be here.

We're not aware of any conflicts at this time.

We will all be here.

We will not be away.

I have that right.

OK.

Going twice.

Is that what I do, since we don't know if we're having October 11th?

I believe it should be adjourned to October 11th, just in case any commissioner's plans change, and we do wind up having a quorum.

Good night.

I gotta go down there.