Planning Commission Regular Meeting   7/12/2022

Mr. Bailey, can you try talking again?

Can you all hear him?

I can hear you fine now.

Okay.

Thank you.

543 Tyree Lane, Charlottesville, Virginia.

22901.

Yes.

All right, so, um, Ms.

Bailey, we can't hear you very well, if you're not well enough to say that we actually had you as part of the liberation.

So, my recommendation is because we don't have an additional speaker to hold up to the computer at this moment, that we just have you just, um, listen in, but not participate in the voting and discussion.

And I apologize for that, but apparently our technology's not up to snuff for this.

I think so.

I think, I mean, I heard some, I think I made out what you said, which was listen in, but not participate in discussion because you can't hear me, which I can barely hear you sometimes too.

Yeah, he did hear that.

He did hear what you said about he's going to listen, but not participate and vote because he can't hear you very well.

There is part of the procedure

The other alternative would be to take a brief recess to see if we can resolve the technology.

I would suggest continuing my reasoning for that except it's not a highly contentious topic for this evening.

I just think it would take us half an hour to resolve something.

We have a quorum.

None of the subject matter that's on the agenda is relevant for whether you participate or not, but it's the chair's side.

I just think we should move forward.

Is there any less things?

Anybody else think we're okay with it?

Is there much that we want?

Okay, so we do not have a motion about that.

All right, so are there any other matters not listed on the agenda from the public?

Anything that anyone wants to report to the commission that is not on the proceedings agenda?

I think no one coming forward.

Moving on to the next agenda item.

The next agenda item is the consent agenda.

Would any commissioner like to pull the item from the consent agenda?

So we'll have discussion on that item.

Since you pulled the item or elected, tell us what you'd like to discuss.

Yes.

I think one of the things that it looks like when you look at the map,

And I'd like to see that in full action.

The other thing is, it seems like we're removing a lot of pictures there.

I haven't noticed.

and 30 minutes to discuss with us.

But there are some events that's going on.

It's been finished and there was some new research that's happened to help eliminate that.

But there's two areas on that map that you'll see there is most important.

There's two areas.

I still think there could be opportunities there.

There's on-sites from all over.

No more than 10.

Okay, we're now ready for you to start.

One decision we were unable to achieve was to make it possible for people who are remote to provide commentary remotely through the lab.

However, if there are members of the public who wish to comment on any of the items for tonight, they can do so by calling in.

This is the phone number that is in the official invitation that you would have used to link on Zoom.

The phone number is one.

877-853-5247.

So we do not have board information.

This is something we offer as a courtesy.

We apologize that we cannot fix the conditions this evening.

But again, people can call in, and we will all be able to hear your comments.

If they would like to review any of the materials for this evening, we are going to have a long-handed website at the same time.

And that webinar ID number is 891-7876-2509 and it can also be found on the Albemarle.org webpage.

We will go back to the item that we were speaking about, which was the consent agenda item that was pulled forward for SE-2022-00016 HCC area C5, two sidewalk and miniature waivers.

And this is where you were just talking about you're concerned with losing some of the green space and whether some other things could be done, such as adding more trees or more trees somewhere else, and to compensate for not having those green spaces.

I think we also have a lot of accountability spots.

I was just wondering maybe what you're talking about.

Any other comments on that item?

of U of E, which where the property was sold for school.

Over to the top left of the screen.

I believe there is an ADA that will grant one B. Pregnant or longer for a large ride, and that is something that certainly we look at in the site planning process.

Well, if you want two ways, either somebody can move to approve the consent agenda or alternatively, Mr. Reitelbach has put up several motions for each of the two waivers and can be done that way, individual holds for each of the requests.

and then we have the staff report.

C.M.H.

To provide a few context into the location of this site as provided as the original piece.

This property and this application consists of five parcels located along a five-grid west.

The chart of the show will be the intersection to the south.

The worst case in the subdivision is to the southwest.

and then the Barden Sound Garden Center in the late Mississippi.

This proposal can't go in.

This request seems to be done through the five parcels of 8.2 behaviors from R6 to charity in residential development for a maximum of two years.

The existing uses of these five parcels

Thank you.

It is a female commercial which is a part of a five.

It is complete.

The show and film have been released and are also in our set.

And then there are eight parcels in my industry as well that are directly across from the company.

For the company's plan, the five parcels are located within

They are largely designated as sort of residential, which is the only branch that are in this new residential.

A small portion of

And in the neighborhood that is going to be recommended, these will take the commercial detail along with the support that can be put to three per acre.

And then this is going to be my master plan document.

I have four stories for residential building.

to weigh the setback requirement for this course of planning.

at the site, as well as two main recreational areas, one at Baker and the center of the site, and one across Baker and the southeast corner of the site.

This development would expect to generate a lot of input from students across all three school levels.

In this area, Albemarle High School is, I think, at our capacity in these additional students

I have identified there are two potential students on all five of their class and the interest is not only for the child's safety and safety.

They are currently based on the arts from the nation

Thanks for being here.

For staff recommendations that

In addition to the federal crisis, the building station in Stanford is able to have two types.

The second type will have four types.

The second type is another one, I think, that will rely on, let's say, the Long Island.

Oh, the Long Island.

Along the Long Island district, if you look at that area through there, there's a lot of overlapping events.

Certainly, we did work with the applicant by the day on expanding the

from JR Long Library to create a sufficient fit to be safe and to be larger than our own.

and so the clubhouse would fall under the recreational facility and our facility does require certain facilities, playground building, that sort of thing, to be required in a site plan.

However, the applicant in a site plan can submit substitution requests for review by the planning directors to allow for certain other things other than these required training facilities or a house would be more consistent.

Yes, University of Northern Ireland, they're asking about the solar energy facility, they're going to do the actual transit job as well.

And also, the kind of transit service plan that they're going to do in the premises of their homes.

They're going to do the transit through the solvent through the permits.

We do have a couple of minutes of time, and we'll go, Curtis used to go to Transylvania for the track, and we talked about the water versus the sea water.

We've got land that's the water ecosystem,

So, um, during the second stage with, uh, and skating and everything that's required by the city, we're missing application for this.

And by the way,

So as staff verified it within those five feet from the access easement, we can accomplish what is laid out in this legislative plan which is a

We're ready to hear the presentation from the applicant.

And I think my general dialogue began with, can you just sit and fix yourself?

Not a moment.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm Valerie Long.

I'm offering the day's time.

We're here to present the applicant tonight.

We have a number of representatives on our project team here.

My colleague, Megan Dosto, our planner.

We also have Scott Collins, Collins Engineering, two representatives of the capital paper, G.W.

Real Estate partners.

And we also have our traffic engineer, Carl Hichbrand online.

We have to share the phone number that needs to light.

We pull up our slides here.

It's very odd to do the same on the same screen as you are on your shoulder.

But we did it in schedule.

We've had a lot of fun.

Everybody can hear.

Let me try not to get too close to you.

Thank you.

We'll start here.

Seems like you all were joined in the middle of the location, especially those of you all who have been around the school.

Often still called the Heritage Hall site.

This is obviously a classic example of infotel and development sites.

Just to refresh people's memories about the view from Rideau Road and the existing driveway,

And you can sort of see that any of the same bus stop there is right to the post, which is in the basement bus stop, shelter, and better location than most of the bench and the existing houses.

This is our application plan.

in general report the disciplines of building on what it means, how many units, all those units that you see.

This is an example, this is even one of the renderings that you have regarding lipid states to try to demonstrate the quality of the lipid states.

And even with this money, our instructors believe, on the nerves that we put players on the team, they really help us verify quality

and many others to the residents.

So I see a number of benefits here.

This is due to comments and plans, variations in the language of the pregnancy, providing the standard affordable housing requirements, satisfying the name of the model principles, significant emphasis on motion rule, transportation options, and you can mention the records and its location or revenue.

It's one of the most important things you can think about this study, so it goes to

We want to use a few of those elements as a pretty slide for the company.

We'll propose a multi-use path, which we don't want to manage right now, with a sidewalk, which we don't think we should recommend.

We know that there is a pedestrian underneath the sidewalk which is much wider and will support bicyclists as well as pedestrians.

We're proposing to relocate the bus stops to a better location.

We would add a

So we essentially put a sidewalk and crosswalk to be shown one.

Also our application plan provides commitments to regard to building heights, the locations of the buildings, all the areas you see in the building are buildings on the list.

The way the buildings will have to be located within those on the list.

The site is currently designed with tall buildings that will be located away from Iowa.

It will be four stories of not all that tall, but the removal of four buildings and one ladder will be three stories.

The architectural report again will have jurisdiction over the design and site plan issues

We have needed state partners along the way.

And we also have the opportunity to say thank you to the college.

Again, look at this.

You might think that they are really too much of a company, but this year, this is really going to be for everyone.

Appreciate your knowledge.

It means the rest of the system, right?

We also are planning to start some trees around me.

It's just a few examples.

But it's also, we did other things, we looked at it.

There's the lawnmower, there's the towers, there's the fire pit, there's the shaders.

It's really important to be a place for things in the garden, in the house, for barbecues, to plant a pot rod or a hand of grass.

See and appreciate the care that has gone into the design, the sufficient space for plantings, the benefits of that much higher quality path.

And it's kind of tucked away there, but that's where the bus stop and the shelter would go.

This is looking up the existing driveway, how that would look to address your question, Mr. Sarrazana, about with regard to the planting strips, the sidewalks, and the setbacks from the edge of the travelway.

Here's perhaps a better shot of the clubhouse showing how that area could be programmed and designed to, again, provide for high quality amenities for the residents.

And this is a little close up of that area and how that would look.

I mean, I'll go to one to be identified by a change of certain examples of how the squirter sink.

There's more.

These are some ideas and examples of what Albemarle clients say or use regularly in their projects and things that they're always working to incorporate in their projects.

We know that there should be some of these committed students lost on behalf.

I think that's a good thing.

The traditional side of the reserve, and the environment.

The benefits of having them dispersed throughout the community, particularly they'll be of varying sizes.

And the buildings will all be slightly different in terms of their unit layout and the composition of the various units, one bedrooms, two bedrooms, three bedrooms.

I think that would be very important in terms of our vision for a healthy community.

Back on the illustrious plans, thank you for providing those.

And I guess my question is for those units that are facing Rio, understanding they're just blocks, but is the intention at this point, look at the, those are the backs of the buildings perhaps facing Rio, but with all the trees planted there, that's the way it appeared.

Well, the access to them will be behind, away from Rio.

So that where the parking is, but I'm quite certain that the architectural review board guidelines will require those, the sides of the buildings along Rio to have a very high quality appearance.

They won't look like the back of the buildings.

Certainly wouldn't be a blank wall.

I think there's going to be balconies probably.

But those are the types of things that

Mr. Missel probably can say it best, but I believe that's even covered in the ARB design guidelines.

Those are things that they typically

have in their communities or work to provide whenever they can.

Most likely all of these things, things like, again, electric vehicle chargers, they tell us that's just market standard.

You pretty much have to have those these days.

Likewise, it becomes a competitive issue to provide, obviously, good Wi-Fi for telecommuters and those types of things.

Obviously, the density is built into this project at 32 units per acre.

but things like low flow fixtures and faucets I think are also pretty standard in terms of high efficiency appliances.

I'm not sure if you can get anything other than that these days but the bus stop and the path are a commitment to the plan as are the bike racks, Wi-Fi controlled thermostats, not a commitment but again provides a nice amenity that

Thank you.

I guess I'll just follow along the same vein because I have similar comments.

I listened to the sorry, the echo is weird.

I listened to the public hearing that was at the community meeting, I should say, and somebody asked about sustainable features like permeable pavement and the response from

The team was, yes, we'll always try to do that whenever we can, blah, blah, blah.

In my experience, a lot of times people say, well, those are nice features, but it's always more expensive to do that so we don't do it at the end of the day.

We don't get the permeable pavement.

We don't get the more green and progressive elements, which actually do save money if people look at the life cycle of maintaining a stormwater pond, for example.

So I guess my question really is,

I don't know if it's really a question, maybe more of a comment.

A lot of these things that you're showing us here that you're saying are, you know, industry standard or the standard of this applicant to try to provide this to make the apartments competitive and make it a great place to live that, you know, will fill up quickly.

But I'm just curious why not.

I'm not asking for a profit from the dias to be very clear.

But why aren't some of those things, if you're just going to do them, why are they not included as part of your standards?

Because I would love for your team to set the standard that other developers coming forward to us would say, wow, they put that in their list of things they pledged to do.

Because there's a lot of great stuff on this list.

And I'd love if it were

on your commitment to be required rather than just things we will probably do.

Well, one I appreciate the comment and frankly this was part of our hesitation of talking about these issues because we appreciate the fact that

It can be perhaps frustrating for you all to hear, oh, this is what we're going to try to do, but yet not commit to them.

Honestly, they're just not in a position right now to be able to commit with certainty.

They haven't designed the buildings yet.

They're still at the rezoning stage.

Again, what they've telling me is, yeah, these are things we do, but we're just not ready to make commitments there yet.

I don't know if those are the types of things that at the rezoning stage, it does also add to the

challenges in terms of preparing the site plan, reviewing, enforcing the site plans over time.

Those then become zoning regulations that have to be enforced.

How do you enforce

Some things on the list are things that you would have to work out in a site plan that you'd have to have all your numbers correct in terms of spacing, like your charging stations, but other things like low flow faucets have nothing to do with the arrangement of the buildings and the width of a sidewalk.

So just food for thought.

And I'll just reiterate again, one, I appreciate the feedback.

One of the best things about this project is its location.

It's what located so well in design with the additional multimodal.

We hope that that will

be the biggest benefit in terms of sustainability as it make it easier for folks who live here to walk to school, walk to work, walk to the park.

Any of those amenities and stores nearby make it easier for them, hopefully not need a car or use their car a lot less often.

Yeah, okay.

I'll leave it at that.

Thank you.

I was just sort of a couple of clarity issues here.

So on page, on attachment four, you've used the star to identify where proposed bike racks are.

There's two of them there, I think.

But yet there are one, two, three, there are four additional stars at the sort of top right hand side of the page and wondering if those stars go to the note that total number of residential units within the neighbor

I live in that area and I never see that many people on bikes but that's another story which I don't need to get into right now.

What I would expect though, and I do so, so while there are the proposed bike racks, it would be nice if you were just to put the proposed EV chargers or something like that in there too, but I'll leave you for your team to get to that as you move forward.

What I do have is sort of a couple of statements about about my sort of

I'm only stating this, I realize I'm not the ARB, so I can't do anything.

It just becomes worrisome to always see rectangle buildings, buildings which are large rectangles, particularly on such an interesting site.

And so we're going to give up that glade of trees at the front for a parking lot.

which they're probably in some creative design there.

You could have maintained that glade of trees on the left hand side as you go in and do something with those, do something with buildings six and five that don't create a four-story corridor if we in fact go along with the desire for the setback.

So then that brings me to my second piece.

I'm really going to struggle with

that corridor there, the buildings five and six, because it feels like we're putting four stories in a place that people are going to have to drive through, they're going to have to walk through, that it becomes this dominant piece.

Similar to what we saw on Rio Road in an interesting project that they actually did something really nice to deal with not having a cavern as you drove into the RST, I think it was, that they did something interesting so that you didn't have this cavern effect there.

That's troublesome for me, having that there.

So if I could perhaps see something that shows that there really is a lot of space there, and that's really not going to be a cavern, then perhaps I will feel better about that.

But losing the trees and then having a cavern of concrete and windows and buildings there instead of

I struggle with that just sort of on a piece of property that actually is begging to be designed on, but it's also begging to have a design that's actually interesting of what your clients, Ms.

Long, have the ability to do.

You bring interesting clients to us.

You bring clients with good ideas.

And so that area right there has troubled me.

And then the other thing, which is just my own annoyance, is that

The rehab hospital changed its name, so it's no longer the heritage on Rio.

And even if I'm being snarky, which perhaps I am, I don't know what Rio's heritage is.

But I can tell you, since it used to be Route 10, that that Route 10 was not a heritage that I would necessarily want to promote before it got converted into Rio.

I understand.

If you don't mind, could I go ahead and address that?

Because I intended and in fact, our clients asked me to address this at the beginning and I neglected to do so.

First, let me say it's not an unreasonable comment and our our clients raised the same issue.

They asked me, please let them know this is just a placeholder made up name.

You have to come up with a project name when you submit an application.

And we literally struggled.

What do we call this?

There was already an application, a rezoning called Rio Road West.

or something, and so we struggle, what can we call it?

How will people be able to identify it?

We came up with this name, frankly, on fairly short notice and then later realized your comment that this might not be the right, not only is it only temporary, but it could have negative connotations.

So please be assured this will not be the project's name.

No, it's, it's, um, that's not a name.

We need that feedback these days, right?

That you're,

Your and others' feedback and impressions, reactions to that name is very helpful.

So if we could go back to building six and five and just show us an image and help me become more comfortable to me when I looked at that.

And again, I'm thankful, as our colleagues have said, I'm thankful for the illustrations because that really does give you a sense of place.

But then I'm also

sensitive to some of the conversation that's taking place in our sister city about what's happened on West Main Street.

And I want this to be warmly embraced.

A couple of thoughts.

And we thought about this a lot as well.

And I'll say a couple of broad issues.

One, this is a very urban area.

So we're trying to balance achieving as much on the high end of the density as possible.

And as you know as well as anyone, that means taller buildings.

The buildings are only four stories.

I think once these buildings are designed,

It will help a lot when they're just these blank gray buildings.

It looks pretty imposing, I can appreciate.

It's a compact urban site, so we really worked hard to balance trying to get the density at the right amount, frankly make the project viable economically, and have an urban project in an urban location.

But that's why we committed to having the planting strips and the sidewalks, the setback away from there.

That's not an urban thoroughfare there.

It's just a driveway that leads back to a rehabilitation facility.

Not that that's not important, but it's not a driveway that a large number of people will be traveling on day after day.

I feel much better than that.

And so while I would like to have that glade of trees over there, because I actually do think that gives it a, that's actually an interesting sort of urban, sort of wooded area,

I do appreciate that there are budgets which have to be met and there are ways in which we get greens, green goes, to be able to do a project and so thank you for that.

Yeah, and it is really hard to, it is really hard to get that because we're just, they look like warehouses.

Obviously that's not what it's going to look like, but if there were like balconies or even just Juliet time or something that put life out, you know, you could wave to your neighbor walking by.

It wouldn't just be a wall of a building that had some life to it, some articulation.

Ground floor patios for the ground floor levels, balconies above.

Absolutely.

So it'll feel like you're walking through a residential area.

Absolutely.

So might see your friend.

Exactly.

OK.

And again, it's really just a driveway as opposed to a street, unlike West Main Street, which is obviously very different.

So been very busy.

Yeah.

Gotcha.

That was a valid point.

Thanks, Valerie.

It's almost like you and your team have done this before.

I appreciate the quality of the application and the presentation.

A couple of questions.

One is, I was trying to, and not to get into too much detail, but a little hung up on these little tiny slivers of planting areas along the boundaries.

And I understand the width, and this is a very helpful illustrative.

So on this one, for example, if you look where that single family home is,

just to the really basically dead bottom center of this image.

I was trying to figure out the contours and I guess my question is, because it's difficult to see the existing contours, I guess my question is, are there retaining walls around the perimeter and if so, where?

I don't believe there is on that side, but I'm going to ask my team to tell me if I'm wrong.

There were originally some retaining walls, what I'll call a backwards retaining wall along the frontage, but not on that side.

That is going to be a three story building as well, instead of a four, which was to try and be a bit of a transition to a single family home.

No guarantee on this.

What our clients have told us is that they have worked, they reached out to that neighbor and he has at least told them that his plan is to redevelop his property as well and not keep it as a single family home.

Nevertheless, we work to be sensitive and Mr. Reidelbach did as well make sure

that we were being sensitive to that issue and addressing it.

Sure.

OK.

I'll take your word for it.

I'm going to let Megan chime in on or correct me on anything.

Good evening, Megan Adasa with Williams Mellon.

If you look on page, I guess it's sheet five of the application plan.

There is a cross section that shows the relationship to the one story.

It does have a basement.

So the street facing side of the house is actually falling back.

And so you can see it does have a basement in the back of the house.

And so you could see that relationship that are in that section.

I pulled it up on the screen for you.

Thank you.

Yep, got it.

Okay, perfect.

That's great.

The other is the dog area.

You showed a picture of the dog area.

I just want to make sure I understand where it is on the plan.

Yeah, that one.

That's the rendering.

And on the plan, if you go to the sheet one, which is the plan, it's on the right-hand side.

Let me just go back to the plan itself.

OK, so it's actually shown.

That's my question.

So this area here is the amenity area that rectangular green area and then in the renderings where we show it

Let me first start here.

That area is here, and the dog park is right down there.

In the illustrations, it's fairly obscured by the trees.

So here it is again.

It's a fairly small area.

And again, this is just illustrative.

It might end up being bigger.

It looked like in that other image you were showing, it was at the corner

and was in the travelway area, so that makes sense.

You mentioned having a meeting with Margaret to talk about the frontage, and I appreciated that.

That was really helpful.

Did you talk to her at all about the step-back waiver?

Not specifically.

Correct.

Yes.

I was really referring to that image you showed where the five and six were in the background and kind of higher because I think the ARB is going to weigh in on them because they're sure.

OK, like that.

They don't worry that way in that.

And the step back wouldn't be there anyway, right?

Step back would be on the other side.

That's one of the issues that's unclear under the zoning ordinance, which does it apply to?

Understand.

Yeah, good point.

OK.

The shared use path, that's really well shown here.

Does that continue past that single family home in both directions?

Yes.

Let me go.

So maybe this is one way to show it.

That's actually a pipe stem of the parcel with the rehab facility.

It would continue into a sidewalk.

Okay.

And then on this location, you can sort of see the sidewalk there.

So this shows a dead ending, but obviously it would connect in and it would transition to the sidewalk as well.

Okay.

Got it.

I think that is it.

Anyone else have any other questions for the applicant?

That's a comment.

This is probably more architectural.

So you can say, Corey, go away if you want to.

But I'm looking at the axis of the first entry of Arroyo Road West.

So if I'm driving a car and I turn in, I'll be driving right into the left edge of the clubhouse.

Just food for thought, if you could slide the clubhouse to the left just a little bit, that access would be centered on the clubhouse.

Yeah, so you're looking at that edge exactly.

OK.

If you drove in, it feels like it wants to be centered, even though it's probably not part of the Planning Commission's purview.

Nevertheless, helpful feedback.

Okay, so I think we're done with the questions for applicant for now, Ms.

Long.

So we will move on to hearing from the public.

Now, because of the audio issues with the online, I don't think we'll be having anyone unless they've called in and so far no one has called in.

Is there anyone in the audience who would like to comment on this application?

would have three minutes to make public comment.

Okay, no one, no one.

All right, so with that, we'll open and close that part of the meeting.

And now we have a chance to come back and add any additional comments that they wanted to add.

Are there any additional?

Nope, you're done.

Is there anything else that planning commissioners would like to ask?

This is sort of helping my colleague, Mr. Murphy.

Excuse me.

Sorry.

They're challenging.

They are more expensive, again, on a site like this, trying to balance the goals of density and amenities and open space and planting areas.

It's often the best option.

One additional comment.

I hate to see people put in more surface parking than they actually need.

We are going to be requesting a parking reduction, much like other multifamily projects in the county.

The existing parking regulations end up requiring more parking spaces than units actually require.

So what's shown here is actually a little bit less parking than the ordinance would actually require.

And we have submitted an application to a waiver request to reduce it in light of its location and the multimodal opportunities.

So it may be that it ends up that there are fewer spaces that would provide more space for landscaping, planting, other open areas, other biofilters, those types of things.

But we're not there yet.

We don't know that we'll get the parking reduction request approved.

I would strongly encourage there's

Many ways to use your plantings.

You're doing these plantings anyway, you can double them as places to treat your stormwater.

OK, thank you.

Ms.

Long has received many emails from me and comments over the years on bioswales and she's heard all about it.

And she always passes it on to the applicant.

But I would say that just to put it in the record, that the commission generally recognizes that our parking requirements are

quite high and that is on our list of things to be addressing over the next year or so is to try to look at ways to give exceptions or even to just change the standards themselves.

For example, when I was on the Charlottesville Planning Commission, which we go that far back, we did actually provide reductions in parking for things such as having bus stops and bike lanes and proximity to transportation.

We had a whole series of ways that

You could reduce the amount of paved space and this is a prime spot for something like that.

Even though it's a very car-oriented society, it's starting to become an area where you could ride your bike to go get Chinese food and bring home or go to the dry cleaner or whatever.

Could I add one more thing in response to Mr. Bivins' comments about the trees?

Let me get this back up.

I like those trees.

That's good.

Just to know that they were your trees.

No, they were my trees.

We bonded there.

Did you go hug them?

I mean, this is not the easiest thing to show with this exhibit, but I'll start here.

The parcel that has the rehab facility is this one back here.

Only part of it is shown.

This area here, if you can see my cursor, that's part of that parcel.

That's a pipe stem.

That was actually the original location for the driveway when this was first plotted.

But then at some point, they realized that's right where the curve is on the road and does not meet site distance or safety.

So they relocated the driveway here.

Unfortunately, to my great dismay,

As a real estate lawyer, they did not then vacate or redo the boundary lines on this side.

So that becomes almost a wasted area of land.

Now, our clients have, the owners of the parcels subject to this, have the right under the driveway easement to use that for access, but it does them no good.

Unfortunately, it's wasted.

The one good thing, as Megan reminded me, is that area is wooded right now and will stay wooded.

So it will actually provide some benefit in that regard.

Well, that's good.

Yeah, so maybe it's not the best way to show you right here, but you can see that in this location.

Oh, yeah, in that area.

Or what that's worth.

That would be a lot more pleasant.

Yeah, it helps make that amenity area even a little, I think, cozier.

Yeah, OK.

Thank you.

I appreciate the opportunity to add that.

And we're here if there's any more questions that come up.

All right, well, we'll move on to our own commissioner discussion portion.

So anything else you guys want to discuss amongst the commission about this application?

We've asked and had answered a number of good questions and comments.

Anything else to bring up?

I just had a couple of things just to mention in general since we're in discussion.

One is related to sustainability.

I think you mentioned how nice it would be to have this project, for example, as an example of excellence in sustainability and

I just like to point out that it would be wonderful to get to a point where this county obviously was an example of excellence in sustainability and where developers could be thinking about sustainability in advance and build that into their financial models and be able to actually then represent to us in plan view and density what actually had already been filtered through sustainability, sustainable practices, as opposed to it sort of being an afterthought.

Yeah.

On the ARB too, I'm first of all grateful that there is an ARB.

And I wanted to mention, I think we were talking about building six and five.

And in my experience, because they're visible, there will be input on the ARB side on those buildings as well.

And then, you know, the density piece.

I mean, I am fully supportive of this project.

It's just interesting to see it sort of, and part of it is, you know, all of the great illustrations were exclusive of any of the adjoining properties.

And I know that we're not controlling or reviewing where even the developer has oversight or impact on the adjoining properties, but

thinking of it as part of a community, part of a neighborhood and including that in some of the exhibits is always helpful as well and would have revealed things like how do the sidewalks connect, what's the bigger picture for example there and scale issues right with adjoining parcels.

So that's it.

Okay, and we didn't have a lot of discussion about the requests for the exception to modify the step back requirements.

So I don't know what your feelings are on that.

This has come up multiple times.

We have talked with staff about

In the future, coming up with some guidelines where we could, or standards even, where we'd say, just like we do with drive-through windows, where we used to have to approve every passwords drive-through window, we would have some standards like in the situation, in buildings oriented this way, in these types of locations, step backs are okay, or you don't have to do them.

They're actually more appropriate for these situations.

So I feel like we could craft guidance or something

with illustrations to save time at this dais reviewing things that we're probably going to be okay with.

So just wanted to put that out there.

That's still our intention.

But for now, we have this before us.

That's only for three buildings, I understand.

It's for the taller buildings.

I had some general thoughts on that.

A bit of a different situation because they have been boarded them to minimize the impact on the public street.

I guess my thought, and I'm in general in support of this project as well.

What I would say is that I do believe that there's missed opportunities and we see that in a lot of projects.

Hate to start

looking at how you redesign and lay this out.

But I think the opportunities here lie in how we look at a density.

And at some point, if we're gonna truly start talking about sustainability, are there sites that can take more density than even what we're proposing?

And we kind of limit to this three, four story, but at some point we may have sites, we do have sites.

around the county that are certainly appropriate.

And as we said, this has great amenities around it.

And I would say this is one of those sites that with more density, it provides for opportunities for more open space.

It provides potentially opportunities to do things more creatively with stormwater management.

We're taking a wooded lot that's all, you know, pervious and basically, you know, paving it.

and so I think that's a missed opportunity.

That was a property line was, is that not a property line right there?

So when it comes to the setback on that interior road, I think that's a missed opportunity.

It does create this canyon effect, putting your largest two buildings in close proximity to each other.

Are there opportunities here to begin to think about how you might

Look at the amount of parking.

Hopefully you can have less.

That would be great.

I would look at, and again, I don't want to get into redesigning this, but as we think about opportunities, switching seven and six.

So you don't have two large buildings next to each other.

And perhaps that gives you some more opportunities for open space.

So I would look at those elements.

I wouldn't be, I mean, I'm not opposed to granting the step back waiver because of where it is.

But if you relocate those buildings, that building six, one would not have as big as an impact on Royal Road, as well as create that canyon effect with building five.

Well, since you got me excited again, I'm just going to say I'm still waiting for the development that comes forward with a green roof on top.

I've seen buildings in

and others other communities with green roofs where you can go up on the green roof, sit on a bench with butterflies flying around and you can treat stormwater up on your green roof and enjoy the great views of the mountains.

So there's sort of like the rooftop is it also can be designed to hold stormwater.

You can simply use it as a stormwater facility.

So there's so much more that could be done to make this a truly green and inviting community.

And we're not getting that

that level of creativity in Albemarle County yet and I think that's very unfortunate and maybe there are things that our county can do to incentivize that better and that's something I hope that we can look at as we redo the comp plan because there are ways to offer incentives for, we did that in Charlottesville where we offered

Additional density if you put in biofilters, bioswales, permeable pavement, all that.

We did get some developments that did infill with those features because they were able to afford them, do the additional density that they got.

We got the density we wanted, but we got infill redevelopment with green.

So we're just not getting very progressive things.

Albemarle County has a bioswale right outside this building, but yet I rarely see those in developments.

And it's not new technology.

It's old.

Green roofs cost more, but they last two to three times longer than conventional roof.

So that cost concern goes away.

If you're the owner of the building, then a longer lasting roof that needs actually and costs less to heat and cool as this building has a green roof on it right now.

And we've saved 30 percent in our energy costs because of it.

Yes, they monitored it very carefully.

But that's our speech for all developers, not just you.

But we're sorry we can't help ourselves.

So now with that, is there anything else about this particular site that we want to bring up?

I would just like to thank the applicant for being aware of that.

The project as named today is something that won't be how it's named when it's finished.

And that they're sensitive to the need to come up with a creative name for this project.

And I would echo what my colleague, Elise, has said.

So this is going to change.

It's one of those projects that's going to change that corridor.

It's going to change the railroad.

West Corridor.

Because up until now, while the speeds on that road are quite high at times, this is going to be a place that's going to have visible density.

Because it's really very residential there, and all the density is really off the road.

So there's a couple of communities there that have a great deal of density, but none of it can be seen from the road.

OK, so this is going to be the first place where you're actually going to see the density.

And so I think I'm going with my colleague there and saying, this is a place that really, really has an opportunity to be something really cool, really exciting, and not simply to be a bunch of rectangles, whether or not they're putty colored or not at the end.

Anything else?

Okay, ditto to what you said.

Oh, he's not here.

This came before my CAC, so I will, on behalf of my colleague from the Rio, since this was in the hydraulic 29

CAC.

I always want to call it the Jack Jewett CAC, but I know I'm going to get in trouble for doing that.

So it's not in here.

Yes, I don't have that, yes.

With the special exception.

Well, we'll handle a special exception with a separate motion, but you're moving at this point just to recommend that the Planning Commission recommend approval of ZMA 2011.

Excuse me, 2021-11 for the reason stated in the staff report.

Is there a second?

OK, seconded by Commissioner Missel.

Any discussion?

Got a lot of discussion.

Mr. Firehock?

Aye.

Mr. Murray?

Thank you.

OK, the motion passes unanimously.

Was there a second?

Second.

Second by Mr. Murray.

Yeah, I would like to.

It's a question, so.

Can we make a motion that there's in during the site plan phase to look at making adjustments to those buildings, whether it's.

Staggering them.

Switching them out as we suggested with with seven.

You could, I guess the question is whether or not the illustrative plan is proffered and therefore the general locations of those buildings are also, they would have to come back for another hearing because that would be

I mean they could potentially go between now and the Board of Supervisors if they have time and work on a different version that they could present to the board.

Yeah.

But I don't know anything about their timeframe, their ability to, you know, I, and that's not something for us to be able to be aware of now, but I think that's still worth putting in for the record that you'd like them to take a look at that before it goes to the board.

I don't know that it needs a formal amendment to the motion per se.

Unless you want to make one.

Okay.

All right.

All right.

So with that, any other discussion?

All right.

Can you call the roll please?

Mr. Firehock.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you very much and thank you for your tolerance with all of our technical problems this evening.

Hopefully that will not happen again.

I knocked wood, right?

So we'll move on to the next item.

Your application will go forward to the Board of Supervisors and hopefully take to heart the many comments you heard here this evening.

All right, so we'll move on to committee reports.

Commissioners, do you have any committee reports?

I'll just report out on two meetings.

One was the agricultural and forest district and I'm going to hold my comments on that until I've had a chance to look at my notes.

I just want to make sure I get it right.

The second is there was a Woodbridge community meeting that I attended and it was focused on specifically the Woodbridge solar project.

And there were lots of really interesting comments.

They related to, for example, visibility, potential glare, battery storage, materials.

Let's see.

Questions about maintenance and ongoing maintenance.

And if something happened, how quickly could people respond to the problems?

All of these were answered well, I thought, by the applicant.

Well, I don't know if they're officially the applicant.

I guess there will be a time to come.

There was a question about diminished property value because of the presence of these.

Let's see.

Interesting questions about the transmission line height needing to be increased or pole height.

that are carrying those transmission lines.

Asked whether or not and thought maybe that this might help the unreliable power currently exists.

Questions about stormwater, stormwater management, how that was being handled on site.

Lots of other things.

One question about whether they would be restoring wetlands if any were on site to begin with.

I have a question on that and it may be answered by you or staff or both.

Does the county developed its stormwater regulations for solar facilities that was required by DEQ yet?

I don't believe we have specific set aside regulations just for solar, but we do have

They are required to meet our water protection ordinance.

So we did see clarification with DEQ as to how to treat the different types of panels, whether they're impervious or not.

primary reviewer with the solar applications that he's been working towards.

If you remember, we've had a few different ones.

We've had some in the concrete boots that were above ground.

We've had some that were mounted that were turnable.

Some were disconnected.

OK.

I don't have a report, but I do have a question.

No.

Looking at that farm field that was, yeah, I know what you're talking about.

Okay, no committee reports.

I attended the Natural Heritage Committee where we also brought up the topic of the solar was also brought up, particularly the pollinator smart guidelines that are out for solar facilities.

And also the merits of performance-based approvals perhaps for solar facilities that could include some of these features that people would like to see like setbacks, appropriate stormwater management,

Yeah, I would say that our county has not yet developed appropriate guidance for solar siting or for solar site design.

that in terms of state guidance that's now available.

Some other localities have even adopted percentages of rural area that can be used for solar and specific areas within their county where solar is and is not a desirable land use.

Yeah, I think what I've seen is that there's many localities that get hit with these super massive solar projects and then they wish they had guidelines

So I would encourage the county to develop some guidelines before we get hit by a project that we regret.

Okay.

So no other committee reports.

All right.

So the next item on is old business and new business.

Any additional business besides, we just talked about solar.

All right, OK.

And items for follow up.

I guess one of the things I'm just curious is if maybe we could just hear a brief report on where the comp planning process is.

Certainly.

We'll be back here in two weeks with the work session with staff and I believe our consultants that we've been working with on that.

We had a working group meeting today, this afternoon.

We had some open house

options over the past several weeks to discuss some kind of growth management options that are out there based on some of the feedback we've received.

We'll be bringing that to the commission to talk about, also kind of review where we are in the process and kind of start that theme of where we are, where we want to go, what we're hoping to get out of each work session.

reset on that and kind of really map out where we're going with that and so we'll be bringing that some more information to you all on that as sort of kind of a new path forward because I think it's been pretty complex as you all have experienced and we want to make sure we're going about it the right way to tackle this thing over the next couple of years.

I will say one feedback that I have received from both of our consultants on these projects is that they would like to find a way to get more time with y'all.

We're looking into some options.

Also, maybe going into one of our larger conference rooms where we can all actually be around a table and have a little more collaboration and ideally try and find about a two hour window.

So I don't know if that's starting our work sessions earlier, three o'clock or 3.30 or so, you know, until 5.30 or going back to our third night, a month, whatever might work.

So just think about that and we can come back and talk about it in a couple of weeks.

And if I can just sort of come in as the commission's sort of observer at this first phase and remembering that each of us or each of you, since I will have had my turn, will have an opportunity to be an ex-official member of the plan.

I say it like that because I'm intentionally not at the table.

Okay, this is the communities I will come in and answer or sort of interject things when I think it would be helpful.

But what I will share is that we live a very privileged existence in what we do.

So this group up here, we are very privileged in what we do because it's very clear that there are opportunities which are needed to help our community understand just how

how multi-layered comp plans, master plans and ordinances are in the build out of our community.

And also to help them understand that the market drives a lot of the things that happen.

And while we can guide things and we can set up hopefully very smart and easy to understand policies,

if a development, if he or she does not want to bring her dollars to this community, it doesn't matter what our rules are.

And so there is interesting balance emerging that I will let you all see when Charles comes about whether or not we're a stay still or go forward or whatever that sort of looks like for us because I think you will enjoy wrestling with some of those topics

but I will say that I have come away from these three meetings, A, thankful of their work, because that's very clear.

I'm very thankful for the commitment that our colleagues, that our co-situarians are doing, but I'm also very aware that as a body, we need to be very thoughtful about how we engage with the community.

because there's still a lot of thought that what we do is magic.

And some of it is, but most of it isn't.

And so how we sort of navigate that in our community, I think will be something that we'll need to think about over the next few years.

Just as also as a reminder, Julian's been attending the growth sessions, but we can have up to two commissioners attend without having to call it as a special me in the planning commission.

So I know that the one of the challenges that they're during that workday, a lot of us cannot get away from work.

necessarily, but another commissioner could attend also.

There will be many opportunities.

Yeah.

Yeah.

As we get the schedule, this will be going on for a couple of years.

I just have a quick question for staff, too.

And I don't want to put you on the spot to say no if you don't know.

Yeah.

We did have a work session with the board on that.

Working on affordable dwelling unit ordinance.

So that'll be some more work that we'll be undertaking over this next year.

I believe there'll be a resolution of intent going to the board soon.

If it has not yet already, it might have.

For us to initially start working on that, we'll have to figure out what all that entails.

That's all part of this package as to what that actual will be.

Those are not set in stone at this point.

So we've had some meetings with the public community with

other representative stakeholders to try and get their feedback.

Earlier in the year, we did ask for that information to be brought back to this commission.

So as soon as she kind of gets to a point where she's ready to come back, we'll, we'll certainly do that.

Great.

Thank you.

All right.

Anything else?

Okay.

For folks who may have business trips or vacations that maybe you didn't know about earlier in the summer, just don't forget to let us know so that we can make sure we don't end up in a situation where we don't have quorum.

And then, of course, we understand with COVID still raging, you know, there could be a situation you can't control.

You suddenly find out you can't come to the meeting.

So just email me right away and staff, if something happens like Daniel let me know he wasn't going to be here.

All right, so with that, I'm going to go ahead and adjourn this meeting until the next meeting that will be held on Tuesday, July the 26th.