Planning Commission Meeting   6/1/2021

Are we ready?

Okay.

This meeting is being held pursuant to and in compliance with ordinance number 20-A-16, an ordinance to ensure the continuity of government during the COVID-19 disaster.

Opportunities for the public to access and participate in the electronic meeting will be posted on the www.

Albemarle.org forward slash community forward slash county hyphen calendar, when available.

Yes, I sure will.

Oh, that's right.

We're doing this one.

He's absolutely.

Here in lovely Simeon, Virginia.

Firehock?

Yeah.

Here in Jack Jewett, without him, there would be no Jefferson, there would be no Simney.

Ms.

Okay.

Just here.

I can't compete with these guys.

Okay.

I believe we still have a quorum, so let's call this meeting to order at 603.

Thank you.

Would any commissioner desire to pull the items from the consent agenda?

Seeing none, somebody make a motion, please.

Moved by Tim, seconded by Corey.

Yes.

I'm sorry, Ms.

Firehock?

Yes.

Thank you.

Let's moving on.

So moving on from that, let's go to public hearing for SP 2021-07 and SP 2021-08.

The Jefferson Mill Hydraulic Project.

Yes, I have a little presentation here for you.

So this is a proposal for a hydroelectric facility using the existing Jefferson Mill Dam.

As you notice, it has two special permit numbers for it.

It's unusual.

The used hydroelectric is actually a use listed in both the RA rural areas district and the flood hazard overlay district.

And it requires a special use permit.

We process them simultaneously, but it's

It has to get two numbers for that reason.

So the existing dam and the adjacent building date to the 1800s, and the mill building is now used as a home.

So this is not a new proposal.

The use of the river for power in this location has been going on since the 1800s.

This particular photo is from the 1940s.

This is what it looks like now.

When the leaves were off the trees, but that's what it looks like basically today.

So you may not know where this dam is.

You can't see it from any adjacent properties.

The dam, so it's on the hardware river.

And what I've done here is I've highlighted the location of the dam on the hardware river.

So you can see the dot that shows up there.

Excuse me, the dot that shows up shows where on the hardware river.

And I've also given you a aerial photograph on the right there that shows a little more detail.

You can see the existing Jefferson Mill Road and where the house is and the driveway and so forth.

I'd like to point out that the extensive tree cover in the area, and you can see from the previous slide how, excuse me,

A few trees there actually are.

So I was kind of impressed in doing the history, how the site has changed.

It's not really relevant to this application, but I just thought that was an interesting thing to point out to everyone.

So this photo is taken looking downstream.

standing right next to the house and it shows the existing water room.

This is the area where the turbine will be located.

The project will improve the outfall from the water room, install new inlets to bring water to the turbine.

The applicant has submitted by far the most extensive and complete application that I've seen in the 30 plus years I've worked for the county.

This information has been reviewed not only by county staff, but by state and federal regulators.

Yeah, has been working with county and the state for about a year to identify and address all issues.

The Department of Environmental Quality is the lead reviewer for this project and coordinates with other state agencies and federal agencies including Department of Historic Resources, Department of Wildlife Resources, the Virginia Marine Resources Commission, the Environmental Protection Agency and the Army Corps of Engineers just to list some.

All of these agencies and others have been reviewing this proposal and the applicant has been working to address all their concerns.

DEQ held a meeting with all the reviewing agencies in the county with the applicant on May 10th.

During that meeting, various agencies discussed the project.

No significant concerns were identified by any agencies and all of the concerns raised were addressed by the applicant.

Just to give one example using this water room here.

The restoration of this was discussed.

The Department of Historic Resources had questions about how the stabilization of the existing stone walls will be made and the applicant was already proposing to use techniques approved by DHR for stabilization.

Those techniques preserve the historical integrity and value of the structure and allow for it to be stabilized and utilized.

So this photo was taken from essentially the same spot as the previous photo.

And the mill building is directly behind the camera.

And this photo gives a good perspective of the relationship of the dam to the mill building.

It also shows how effective the existing dam is preventing the up and downstream movement of aquatic life.

Essentially, nothing can go up or downstream, downstream maybe, but back upstream, no.

Just part of the thoroughness of this applicant's application, it's not the subject of the special use permit, but the applicant is proposing to install a ladder on the dam on the opposite side of the river from the mill building.

And this feature was strongly endorsed by the DWR, VMRC and others and county staff.

We've not identified any issues with this application and we're recommending approval of it.

Thank you, Bill.

If you can unshare your screen for a moment, I appreciate it.

If I can get there.

Okay.

While you're doing that, I'm scanning my little slide here to see who has, oh, there you go.

Thank you.

And who has their hand up for questions for Bill before we go to the afternoon.

And I have shops staring at my screen, correct?

Yes, you have.

Thank you.

Any questions for Bill?

No.

Hi.

This is Tatiana Marzan.

Are we going to see you, Ms.

Yes.

Sure.

And as you've already done, you've told us your name, but also tell us the company you're with.

And when we get you up there, we have, I think, up there you are.

That's fine.

So I have another member of our team that's trying to get into the meeting.

She's Jessica Penrod.

She's the original project manager of the project.

Would you mind letting her in?

I'm sure this is a wrap technique.

Okay, we see Ms.

Is he part of your team?

Should he be here?

Yes.

Okay, there you go.

We're ready for your presentation.

Oh, no.

Well, I have been talking to Bill and Bill did say that he's going to present on behalf of us.

Oh, okay.

We had been talking and I didn't know, the last conversation we had was unclear if she was going to, but there was no need to do a presentation.

No, we are here for the questions.

Then why don't we go to see if any of the commissioners have questions for you and your team colleagues?

Hmm.

Now, this was a really, really good project and a good plan, but I'm really stunned that no one has any questions.

First, let me preface this by saying that I do support it, and this is the great conundrum between cultural resource protection and natural resource protection that I spent my lifetime thinking about, my professional lifetime thinking about.

But

Just to be a devil's advocate here, wouldn't best practices be to remove this dam?

I don't know if the applicant wants to do that, but I do know that the issue of the removal of the dam was not identified during the state's review of this particular application.

I don't know if that's because it simply wasn't part of the concept.

The state was significantly impressed by the current state and quality of the dam and the installation of the fish ladders, the use of turbines that were not going to harm fish life, and there's even the discussion about installing a portage around the dam for recreational usage.

So the issue, you may be correct, but the issue did not come up.

And I personally agree with everything that you've said, but it seems to me that it is our responsibility to ask what best practices are.

So what the goal of this project is, is to like, you probably already know this,

The project already had a hydropower option.

Like the project location, the dam actually was used before for hydropower applications.

So that's what we're actually reusing the same use.

Like we are trying to restore an old hydropower site, basically.

And fish passage is very important to us and to the client as well.

So this is what we're trying to do.

We are trying to improve the fish passage and the connectivity of the river as well as restoring the previous use of the dam.

I think probably my comment would be specifically around the existence of fish that have been in the area and the studies that we've done thus far and the information that's publicly available indicates that the dam is not a huge hindrance to species, especially species of concern going upstream any farther due to the amount of dams that are below

the Jefferson site.

So specifically for like the best practices related to the environment, it isn't having a huge impact thus far unless other dams downstream were actually removed, then yes, it probably would be the best practice, but the likelihood of those dams to be removed is very

and very small percentage simply that they, some of them are hydro as well and some of them are for water control.

I think that that's a fair answer and that's really what I was searching for.

Our best practices would probably, you know, tell us to tear up all of our freeways and turn them into meadows full of butterflies

But it'd be hard to get your truck around if you did that.

So it's a balance between human existence, I guess, and the animals.

This is carbon-free energy we'll be generating.

So we will not be contributing to adding any more CO2 to the atmosphere with this.

We'll actually reduce the carbon footprint.

So there's

There's an advantage.

And as Tatiana pointed out from a historical point of view, the structure was built 200 years ago to generate power from the river to grind wheat.

And so we're sort of returning the structure to its original historical purpose.

But yes, so I mean every dam in the country ought to be torn down so the fish could swim free.

But that's probably not going to happen.

So we're trying to, our goal is to try to make the best of it, is to try to generate carbon free power from a renewable resource and have minimized our footprint on the environment, minimize the impact we have

We've looked at the mussels.

We've had people studying the mussels in there.

We've been looking at the dissolved oxygen aeration in the water.

We've identified different fish species.

The state folks are worried about the eels, the American eels and the sea lamprey.

and they think that we can improve their habitat and maybe expand their habitat with an eel ladder.

So we think that we're taking an existing resource and bringing it back to its original use plus improving what was already there.

Oh, excuse me.

Yeah, Joseph Head.

I'm a civil engineer.

Rick?

I would just follow up on Tim's question by noting that

The Rivanna Conservation Association in their 2019 survey, which was published in February this year, one of the co-authors Rachel Pence,

with whom I've spoken, page three of that report in talking about the South Fork of the Rivanna River, the dam which we use for purposes of drinking water that it, quote, has a negative influence on the downstream fish community in this section of the South Fork Rivanna River.

So we're talking here before us is a private piece of property

where they're reverting the dam back to its historical role.

And I think if we're going to be raising a question about whether dams should be undammed, then we need to be thinking of the trade-off that would need to occur where the largest dams upriver on the Rivanna River and elsewhere would generate the

amount of reserve water that we use and the city of Charlottesville uses for drinking water.

So again, we have a trade off here that has to occur.

And I think the gentleman quite correctly stated that.

And this is a piece of private property and they're trying to do the best they can.

to further the interests not only of the natural world, but of also reducing the amount of methane and CO2 that otherwise would be generated through burning hydrocarbons.

So it's a positive step and something really welcome in that section of the Scottsville District and in the county.

Yes, I have a technical question for the applicant and then I have a comment.

So my technical question is actually a detail that wasn't provided, but I wouldn't have expected you to provide this.

So just if you know the answer, that's great.

I wanted to know if you have determined yet what the substratum will be that's used to line the bottom of the fish ladder.

because there's a difference in eels' ability to migrate successfully based on that.

I'm sorry.

That is a very technical question.

And yes, it's a great question.

And guys, people have written treatises on this topic.

These are for eels and it depends on the size of the eel

So we're looking at the American eel starch's life in the Sargasso Sea out in the middle of the Atlantic and they worked their way up the James River and then up the hardware.

So we're not talking about small ones.

their minimum was six inches by the time they reach, well, our last sampling point is the state sampling point is down there at the mouth of the hardware.

So six, eight inches, but they can get up to several feet long.

So the exact size of the knob, so usually they have a stratum is some of them

have like an astroturf type material on the bottom of the ladder.

But as the eels get bigger, they like to swim around knobs.

And so the size of the bump is kind of critical.

And we haven't 100% figured out exactly which way we want to go on that.

But it'll be some sort of material.

The folks involved have suggested we use, cast some tile.

Ones I've seen have had, like I say, some kind of a artificial material, like an astroturf.

I don't know how long that would last.

I mean, you put that in there.

The hardware river, it's a tough river.

I mean, that river is flashy.

Today it's pleasant in a nice little stream.

Last year you guys had a part of one of those hurricanes, the remnants of one of the hurricanes blow through.

that river went from a pleasant little stream to a raging torrent in like hours and all of a sudden instead of three or four inches over the top of the dam you had two feet of water blowing through and six hours later was back to be a nice little stream again so whatever you build is going to be able to handle that those kind of forces

So one idea was to especially cast some ceramic plates with the knobs built in there and then seal those, mortar those into the bottom of the fish ladder.

So we're kind of, and we think if we did something like that, it'll be around for another hundred years.

This dam's actually totally amazing.

These guys who built this did it by hand 200 years ago.

It's just rock and mortar.

and it's still there.

This river has been pounding on this dam for 200 years and it's still there.

So we sort of have a responsibility.

If we're messing with this dam, we have a standard to meet here.

And whatever we do, we want to make sure, A, we don't harm the historical nature of it.

And B, when we add

Well, I'm glad the fish ladder will last at least as long as the dam, hopefully.

But I would like to send you guys an article, maybe you can tell me who on your team I can email or send it to Bill.

But there was a study on just to get the success of eel migration of different types of substrates.

Specifically, the more studded the substrate, the better they did.

And it compared it to other types of substrates or not as successful.

So I think that that would be useful.

Again, it's not something that you know, I'm proposing to condition approval on or anything like that.

I just wanted to make sure you thought about that.

But thank you for the

The Heal Migration Lesson there.

If you send that to me, I can take care of 40.

Sure, I will do that, Bill.

My background is actually in stream habitat restoration.

I did that for many years.

But what I actually, I want to make a quick comment, though, and I don't, my fellow commissioners know I could go on and on.

So I'm going to try to be as brief as I can.

I want to make two comments on some things that you said.

One comment was about the clean energy solution.

Yes, it is true that hydropower could be considered cleaner than say something like coal.

But I did notice, and I was glad to see a lot of solar panels off the top of the mill building, so you're obviously already using clean energy sources.

But there are other things that can be used to generate energy, and I have no way to comment on energy needs of this particular building and whether it does indeed need to use water power in order to get

sufficient green energy to power this building.

I don't know about the energy efficiency of your appliances in the building.

So it's really not something that we can talk about.

But the reason that I would be leaning in support of this application is because of the fact that there's a situation now where the eels cannot migrate up successfully.

And because of your intervention as part of generating power, they will be able to.

Looking at it from a net effect, there will be a net benefit to the environment.

And we will be better off than if we decide to deny this or took no action.

I do want to note, though, that from an environmental perspective, the best option would be a partial breach of this dam so that

We don't have a dam across the river.

And if anyone wants to study this, there are multitude of dams that have come down in Virginia, including some major ones.

And just because Albemarle has a drinking water reservoir is not a justification for continuing to maintain dams across streams.

There's a whole host of problems that occur from warming water behind the dam.

from preventing migration of passage from trapping sediments, sometimes which are contaminated.

So I'm not a fan of dams.

And I was here in this area when issue came up about a partial breach of the Rivanna.

Dam at the Woolen Mills.

My students wrote a grant proposal that was used to fund a study of the partial breach, which was officially done very successfully.

Obviously, it doesn't generate power anymore, and that particular dam was a liability that needed a lot of repairs to meet the state's Dam Safety Act, and so it's cheaper to actually breach it than to try to have it generating power again.

So because this project has a net benefit at the end of the day, it writes a partial wrong in terms of allowing the fish back up the river.

I would be in support of it, but I do not want anyone to think that the yes vote on this proposal indicates my support for maintaining dams.

And just because something is historic doesn't mean we should maintain it.

Right?

There are historic coal mines.

No one would make an argument for maintaining all our historic coal mines.

So I just don't think that argument holds any water, so to speak.

Thank you.

Is there someone else who feels called or hasn't?

Before we go, go back to Rick.

So is there anyone else?

I see you Rick.

Okay.

I want to see if anybody who hadn't spoken yet wanted to either Corey or Luis.

I just wanted to add that the study I brought up earlier from the RCA, page four of that study, points out that dams are limiting the passage of eels in two out of the three sites where no American eels were collected.

And one of those sites is above the South Fork of the Rivanna River.

So Karen, when you send that study out, please send it to the RWSA,

Yeah, RWSA for their awareness as well, because I think they need to be aware of that.

Thank you.

So are there others?

Are there other questions?

Questions?

Oh, Jessica, did you want to, Ms.

I was just going to respond to Karen.

Sorry, I didn't introduce myself originally.

I'm Jessica Penrod and I'm with Natal Energy.

I am the project manager for this.

I've been out on maternity leave, which is why you haven't seen me before.

So thank you for having me.

But specifically about the substrate for the eel passage, that is also something that the Fish and Wildlife Service is actually who ultimately will be agreeing upon what we propose to them.

Thank you.

Other questions?

So I would just, if we can talk about the power generation.

So if I understand your page 16 of your proposal, so I see that the number of KWHs in the year would be about 111,000 per year.

But a typical house usually uses, I don't know, 13 KW per month, so let's say 12,000 a year.

So what's the arrangement for that significant magnitude that will be generated?

Where's it going?

Or who's buying it?

They do, they also, I believe the owner also has a electric vehicle, they'll be using to charge the electric vehicle and other things.

I saw that capacity and thought.

Two things, do you usually do residential projects?

Because it feels like according to the kind of projects that you have on your

On your website, this feels very intimate.

And if so, this seems like we're really, we've got a good amount of capacity here, which I'm, that's not, I don't have a problem with that.

But so the first question is really is this, is this a, how does this fit in the suite of projects that you do?

Joe again.

There are two residences on this in the area that owned by the same folks and we're going to tie the two together on one side of the meter.

So we're going to consolidate the two meters plus

If we can get our hands on them, they're selling like hotcakes now, but the owner wants to put in some Tesla Powerwalls so the power can be stored and used at different times.

As you know, you can talk to Bill, but we've had, there's a person, Bill, who lives on the reservoir.

You may know the one I think you may have done the dock for, the floating dock.

We're having a horrible experience with the Tesla walls.

If you can do somebody else, I suggest for somebody else.

And I'll even admit my bias against Tesla.

And so I do that up front so that nobody can accuse me.

I say up front that I'm not a fan of him.

But there's some good alternatives to test the walls and you might want to look into those.

So they have an on-site facility manager who we will be training to do the long-term maintenance.

We will come in only as needed.

So we do not have a long-term contract with them to be the maintenance provider.

Well, does anyone else have any questions?

Luis, are you raising your hand?

Look at you.

You're sort of posing out there in the green of life.

I will also mention, as anybody who may have looked at your firm's page, you also have a UVA graduate.

I mean, you've got some graduates from other institutions who work there, but you also have a UVA graduate, so I personally was pleased to see that.

I'm pleased to see that it was such an eclectic and

and a talented group of people who are thinking about how we're going to go to this next phase of energy production.

So for me, not that that'll buy you a cup of coffee anywhere.

I want to just give you my congrats on that.

Anything else for anybody else?

Rick, before we go to the public.

Let's go to the public.

Okay.

Well then, you have the opportunity to wrap up a comment before we bring it to ourselves or if Rick wants to ask a question before you do that.

And you don't have to do that, but we give you that possibility.

Well, since I don't, Rick, why don't you ask the question or make the comment you were going to make.

Actually, I was just gonna say I'm ready to do a motion.

So, gentle people from California, do you have anything you'd like to add?

I don't believe so at this moment.

Let's put it on the square.

Thank you.

Oh, there we are.

Looking for a second.

I see a second from Mr. Keller.

Yes, Mr. Keller.

Ms.

Firehock?

Yes.

We didn't hear you, Rick.

Then you can share with the applicant that this is passed.

and that your next step will be working with Bill on the presentation to the supervisors.

I would only recommend, this is only a recommendation, that if you're going to do a presentation that you'd be ready to do it.

Okay, because depending on when you go on their schedule they're going to want to see something and hear something from you and then keep on moving.

Okay, so thank you very much.

As you can hear, we asked some of the hard questions and so you're gonna get harder questions when it gets pushed up above us.

But each of us are very excited about this project and thank you for turning your energies to this kind of work and for assembling again a team of individuals who look like they're also having fun.

So thinking about different ways in which to bring electricity and the like.

So thank you.

Have a good evening.

And we're going to move on to the next piece of our, and thank you for presenting to us.

Thank you.

Thank you.

It was one of their persons.

OK, cool.

All right.

Thank you very much.

We do share with them, and I don't know, I shared with them that, you know, they don't necessarily need to do a presentation.

Sometimes applicants do just say, we're here to answer your questions.

And sometimes they want to do a presentation and they were going to do the, we're here just to do so.

We'll coordinate.

Yes, I'll be quick.

So the ACE committee met virtually to discuss adding a ranking criterion for, I'll try to simplify this, habitat cores that are high quality habitats that have been mapped in the county.

So previously, we looked at things such as agricultural soils, the size of the property, the number of development rights eliminated,

and this adds an additional criterion for high quality habitat.

So that was added, we wrestled with the language and apparently I was told it was a small miracle that they both proposed and acted on the recommendation in just one meeting.

So that has been done and that will move forward to the Board of Supervisors to consider amending the language.

I don't think it comes to the Planning Commission,

It's a change to the ordinance because it changes the ranking criteria for acquisition of conservation easements.

And the board is also, some members of the board are also considering the question of funding for the ACE program.

Because as you guys know, due to COVID and all the other demands on our county, there was no funding for that program this year, but we have to rectify that.

Thank you.

Corey.

I attended a CAC meeting where we had a presentation given by Sandy Shackelford of the TJPDC on the Urbana-Rivanna River Corridor plan.

So they went through their preliminary recommendations and I wasn't sure if that would ever come before this body, but I just want to kind of give an update on that.

It will, that's the plan.

Just taking a little bit longer than expected to wrap up that plan and get to final draft, as you know, that you've been involved with it.

Anything else, Corey?

No?

Anyone else?

Thank you.

Anyone else have a

Report from the board.

All right.

Give an update.

There was a board meeting back on the 19th, which was the day after our last meeting.

It was fairly light with new development department items.

Primarily went over transportation projects updates for the upcoming smart scale grant submission cycle.

Probably the largest project out of that is the

Just drew a blank.

Eastern Avenue extension in Prose, a very large project that is much needed to help some circulation out there.

And a few other projects.

We also had a public hearing that evening for the secondary six-year road plan with VDOT to get public input on that.

Rick.

Just to let everyone know that the 5th and Avon CAC met to talk about a piece of property that is Avinia on Avon Street extended.

That piece of property lies just south of Avinity and

The owner of the property, as some of you are aware, because you've looked at past applications, lives on that property.

So there was a CAC meeting, the community meeting, to first look at this.

Some pretty, I think, deep-seated concerns of residents and infinity about how they're going to be able to maintain their private amenities

and try to, I guess, control residents from another community who might come in and avail themselves of those facilities when they're not paying the HOA fees for them.

So that issue will probably be before us.

I don't know the timing, Charles, but sometime later this summer, I'm assuming.

Then we will hear from both the residents of Avinia as well as the applicant on how they're going to address it.

But clearly those concerns came out at the CAC meeting.

Thank you.

Charles, before we move on?

Any old or new business?

No?

Well then, if there's no items to follow up and there's no other new business, then we might have done something that I never thought would happen.

If by some reason you weren't in the convention,

that happened last month for the GOP.

Remember, next week is your opportunity to vote in the Democratic election.

So please share that information with folks you know.

If you didn't do the GOP one, then you have the Democratic one.

And if not, so we won't be seeing each other next week unless we see each other at the polls.

Our next meeting is on June the 15th.

And Charles, am I correct when you're saying are?

I hate this initial.

I really hate initial.

RTS, which I think we all know is the one over in Charles's neighborhood, and he's going to lead us through that.

That's correct.

We'll have a continuation of RST with some changes that were made by the applicant in another community meeting that they held to get some feedback on that.

And I believe it's a comp plan compliance review that will come.

Okay, thank you very much.

And so with that note, the meeting is, hello, listen to that.

See you in a week and a week and some change.

Bye, folks.

This is like, you know, it's light out.

And we can go have fun if we want to.

We can go.

No, go have fun.

Go have fun.

Hey, Luis, how you doing?

You good?

How are you?